BPDFamily.com

Hi everybody,

Finally, after 3 months of waiting, she answered yesterday to my message. She ask me how am I and gave some news of her son.
She told me she's better now and thanks me for being me.
It was a short discussion, 6 messages but she's the one that I met.
We never talked about her BPD and the avoidance and I want to have a discussion with her.
I don't know how to start, I need probably help to communicate with her.
Thanks a lot for your help.

I would take things slow.

For one thing, if I recall correctly, you don't know for sure she has BPD or an official diagnosis. The diagnosis came from a friend (not her doctor) and she didn't respond well when you brought it up. We generally recommend people NOT tell a loved one about BPD because it rarely if ever goes over well.

For now, take it easy. Don't bring up the problems you encountered. If she does have BPD or BPD tendencies, she's likely very sensitive to criticism and has a strong sense of shame. If you try to bring these things up, you may well trigger her again. If she brings them up, talk to her gently about them. Ask her questions. Don't ask "Why" questions. Stick more to "What" questions. For instance, not, "Why did you act that way?" but "What do you think made you act like that?" Small distinction, but it can make a big difference.

Be open and take her lead. Don't push too hard or too fast.

Good luck!

Thanks for your advice.
I don't wanna push her. Yesterday, I sent her a video of a place she loves in London. No message with that.
This morning, I kindly texted her "good morning, how are you?"
She answered again by a nice message :).
I don't want to discuss to what's happened because I want to have this discussion face to face. Not by message.
I think I will keep light messages like this, taking some news and speaking about random stuffs.
What do you think?

That sounds like a good plan.

Have you listened to Stop Walking on Eggshells?

It's available on YouTube for free.  Lot's of good stuff there.

Rev

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QY4JZJonCs

Hi Rev,

Thank you for the link. You are right, I don't wanna walk on eggshells all my life. I talk to her in a normal way. I'm not this guy waiting something from her, only respect. That's what I deserve.

Hi Ozzie,

She’s gone again. After many messages yesterday, joke and pictures of her, she disappeared. My last question was if she will spend her christmas with her family.
This morning I sent her “good morning, did you sleep well? “
I don’t want to insist but do you think it’s a bad period ? Or maybe I trigger something? I didn’t ask her questions about the situation, I was neutral as possible. Didn’t talk about my last 3 months without her.
I don’t want to give her emotions from me.
What do you think?

There's no way to tell, really. A few hours without responding isn't -- in the grand scheme -- a long time. A messed up phone, a busy work day, any number of things can explain that.

You want to be careful about over-thinking. Yes, she might be stepping away again. She might not be. She might have felt a bit triggered by the question about Christmas (even if it was an innocent, polite question).

My advice would be to just sit back and wait for now. You don't want to fall into the same pattern as before, where she felt overwhelmed and pressured.

Ok I understand.
But it is a permanent state? Today I sent her : Safe flight and wish you a nice retreat (She goes to a peaceful place for her).
Sen said thanks.
So could I go back sometimes to take news? How does it work really. She came back after 3 months and I don't want to let her know that I abandon her.
Or probably each case is different?
Do you have probably some tools?

thanks.

Anonym2806, this may be a sign to dial back the frequency of your communication with her.

its a good sign that she got back in touch with you. but dont push for too much too quickly.

I agree with once. Each person and each situation is different so there really isn't a blueprint you can use. However, it's best to really listen to what she's saying -- or not saying. If she dials back on communication, as once says, step back a bit. Pushing too hard, too fast, or getting into deep topics when she's keeping it light, could end with her running away again.

Hey Once,

Thank you for your advice.
I will probably take some news this week-end to see how is she.

And Happy Thanksgiving to all of you :)

Hi,

It seems she's coming back.
She never answers to my (simple)  questions, she only gives me some news of her (sometimes a picture of her).
Should I walk on eggshells? I have some many questions but I think the only way is a face to face to do that.
What do you think?
 

Do you have some concrete goals in mind for meeting with her - ones that you feel are going be be realistically obtained. Or do you find yourself "hoping that this time it will be different." BPD's have this uncanny sense of zeroing in on what you have to offer that they most need.  Most usually is falls into your sense of empathy. So if you find yourself thinking about what you "need" from her - my guess it that this is not such a great idea.  If you find yourself thinking about "looking at her for who she really is" so as to get some closure or a more solid footing that rests solely in your court - then go for it.

My two cents on a Monday.

Rev

Hi Rev,

Thanks for your answer.
Honestly, I don't want to go back in the same situation.
Right now, I hope nothing from her. I just expect some explanations.
Then probably, if she wants and if I want to go back, I know I need to setup some rules.
I remember the person who is she really and that's why I can make an effort to build something different if we have this discussion.
For the moment, we only have light talk on messages but I don't know when can I expect to ask her a meeting. Any advices for that? I feel she keep it light for the moment.

An expectation is the same thing as a hope. What if you get no explanations for anything - a likely possibility because at this stage it would be very hard to believe anything she says.

When you can come to a place in your heart that you know that you will be able to read between the lines on your own terms - as if reading about her in a book would be the same thing as meeting her in person - then you will be ready. And my guess is - at least if you are like me - that when you get to that place, you may not really want to put the effort into meeting with her.

In short, you'll know in your heart when it's time because a heart at peace never lies.

Rev

Hi Rev,

Right, sometimes I want to move on because I read a lot of things about BPD.
Then I remember that is not her fault, it's the illness. I don't want to go back like this. I know she's smart enough to understand the only way for something it's her change. Not mine. Or if I need to change, I cannot anymore give her the same feelings or show in the same as the beginning.
Now, she's still in contact with me. Today, I received many pictures from her of her travel and she made some compliments (I take it easy).
This, don't erase what she did during 3 months : Silence treatment.
So yes, I know where I am. I'm not stupid, I don't wanna do the same mistakes. I don't want to walk on eggshells anymore.
So let's see what she's able to change and what she can also offer for a relationship.

Now you're talking... good man.

Rev

Hi,

After few messages, she stopped answer. I said nothing wrong, nothing related to our previous "relationship". And now, she posted something weird on instagram (like a depressed quote).
I was neutral on my messages. I just compliment her once, about her beauty.
That's it.
Maybe someone can give me advices?

Thank you.

Hi Anonym

Advice?  Tough to give advice here. With a pwBPD there is no rhyme or reason to it.  My guess (and it's a guess) is that you've given her the supply she was looking for with your compliments.

I think you might be well served by really asking yourself what you want out of a relationship and then really ask yourself - why her?  All the authors say the same thing - until she decides to be authentic in getting help for her condition, not only will it not get better, it will worsen.  And you will end up feeling worse and worse - that is until your expectations meet up with the reality of who she is - and perhaps more importantly - who she is not.

Hope this helps.

Rev

Really? a simple compliment? I didn't tell her about seeing her again or something like I miss you. Because I don't want to give more of my feelings to a ghost.
Do you think she can come back by herself? If yes, probably I should ask her to have a face to face. I don't want to message more and more for nothing.

Why not?

Enjoy your time with her, enjoy your time with others. Maybe one will develop further into a relationship. If not, then you're having a good time anyway, win win!

Don't "sell" your attention for love, give it freely. You will definitely notice (as you already have) when others are selling theirs instead of freely reciprocating.

That's the mindset I've been on lately, been talking to my bpdex like that and its kinda refreshing to not having to worry about what she'd do, she seems to notice that and is also being far more supportive of me now that I'm having a rough patch than she ever was.

Friends only with her now, so I don't know if that translates to a romance, but so far a number of women I've met comment a lot on "get too attached" as a dealbreaker, so I'm kinda trusting their word on it  |iiii

Yes - true pwBPD feel everything much stronger and deeper than people would otherwise feel. So if she was feeling really down on herself - and she sought you out for supply - that would be enough.

They are really very, very bizzare people. My psychopathology professor in my master's  programme warns us about treating people with BPD because they are so manipulative and impulsive. He has seen more than one therapist lose part of their practice when therapy with a BPD client went off the rails. There are therapists who will not treat them (not that it's fair - but there it is).

It's not there is no hope for them. It's that depending on the depth of their disorder, the amount of work they need to do to function in a relationship for any amount of time is monumental. There are some people who believe that there's a cut off point - even - mid-40's seems to be an agreed up age - where the condition is almost untreatable. My own T believes this and recommended I simply get out.  And it is a dis-order - as in the way people with personality disorders think and feeling has no logic to it in the way you and I would understand.

A trauma bond (that is to say - a bond that is formed where we ourselves are traumatized a children - like say - our mother's never held us so BPD's hold us a lot) is very difficult to undo - but not impossible - because it runs so deep. And people with BPD are intuitive experts at forming them. And they use sex to solidify them. Mine did exactly that - came right at my sense of empathy - gave me rock star sex - made me feel handsome and useful - and... here's the trauma bond ...smart. My father - I could never really earn his respect - and my mother ran hot and cold. Loved me, but needed to manage my narcissistic father - totally devoid of empathy that man.

Counselling - specifically Cognitive Therapy - has been good for me.  I have had to put a lot of work in and six months after my separation I still struggle with feelings of shame.  largely because my ex wife is still so confusing. I now have a cease and desist in place - even though the last time she approached me under "friendly" terms - there are no such things as friendly terms because that would suggest mutuality - and that's not possible for a pwBPD unless they do the work on themselves that they need to.  

I know this is long - but there it is.

I'm not saying don't love her - but I am saying that "love" will look and feel a little different than what you seem to be looking for.  

It's like this - my cousin is an amputee - she has one leg. And she has two daughters. Her sexual relations are different than those who have both their legs - its not a perfect analogy, but it's close.

If you want to love this woman, there may be things that you will never be able to have. It's up to you to be really careful about that, because depriving ourselves of certain emotional things is very bad for our own mental health.

I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.  You have a nice energy about yourself. I can feel that you are a very caring person.  Guard that quality about you. It's part of the essence of who you are.

Rev

put it in context.

cat calling a woman might be arguably a simple compliment, but may feel to a woman like harassment.

you have been broken up for months, Anonym. shes keeping things very, very light. in turn, you need to match that attitude. keep things very, very light; even lighter.

talking about beauty communicates to a woman certain things. she may not be on board at this point, if shes going to be at all.

its too much. shes giving you that signal every time.

Hi guys,

2 days before christmas, she sent me a song and asked me to listen it. It was "the scientist" (Coldplay's song).
I told I understand but we have to talk and  I said that I hope to spend new year eve with her.
Nothing since this day.
I just sent her best whishes for christmas and NY but she read my messages and never answered.
I've been rough in my last message to show her I don't wanna play her game but I'm still open to the discussion.
In the same time, I live my life but sometimes I hope she will come back.

Thanks.

Personally - I have come to the intellectual/rational realization that who I miss is the person she said she was - not the person I have discovered she really is - and by discovered I mean the over two dozen people from various walks of life who have approached me. 

So the cycle I find myself in is missing a person who can never come back because they never really exisited in the real world. It is no wonder people who are conned or scammed feel such shame. Their weakness was exploited and there is no way to get back the dignity that was taken - there is just to get stronger that is an option.

Personally I live in the satisfaction that I know for a fact that she is suffering with the new supply.  I know that sounds vindictive - but it is the only thing I can find that helps me put distance between myself and her.

I will one day likely move from where I am and start over somewhere esle.

Happy new year to you my friend.

Keep on keeping on.

Rev