BPDFamily.com

Ugh! This is an uncomfortable thing to share, but I’ve found that honesty and soul searching create healing.

As some of you know, I’ve had a lifetime of experience with BPD, having had a mother with it, my abusive ex husband, and now my current husband, who thankfully only has traits.

As a young person I had no idea what I was dealing with, no name or diagnosis, but I knew there was something wrong with my mother. She was functional in that she could hold down a job...for a while. And then there was always a big issue with her boss or coworkers, which she talked about endlessly. It was always somebody else’s problem. Then she’d get another job. Rinse and repeat.

She didn’t do a lot of the traditional mom stuff. Either she didn’t know how to cook, or she didn’t like teaching me about girl stuff, or maybe she was depressed. I tried helping with housework, but I never did things right, but then again she never showed me how.

Her temper was volatile at times and I received the silent treatment sometimes for days after saying something mildly snarky to her. I’ve certainly read about worse on this site.

My dad was calm and dependable and didn’t say much, but occasionally would be prodded by her into showing a flash of temper, which was frightening.

I began to have contempt for my mother due to her feigned helplessness and from a young age, identified more with my father and his competence and self control.

In college I became a psychology major, hoping to unravel the mystery that was my mother. She really didn’t fit any of the categories I studied in abnormal psych and it wasn’t until years later that I learned about personality disorders, and mystery solved—she fit borderline to a T.

They say you bring unresolved issues from your childhood into romantic relationships and I certainly did that on steroids with my first marriage to a man who once the honeymoon phase ended, showed himself as borderline, narcissistic and sociopathic.

Some years after I freed myself from that awful relationship, I married a wonderful man who I thought drank a bit too much, but other than that was a great person. When the mask came off, I realized that I was looking at another borderline case, much to my dismay.

With what I’ve learned here, I quit making things worse and the borderline part now seldom appears and he truly is a wonderful person most of the time.

What do all these relationships have in common? Well, I certainly was trained as a child to be familiar with unusual behavior, so I didn’t head for the hills when that behavior showed up in my relationships.

But there is another issue I’m not proud to admit. That is, I learned to feel superior to my mother at an early age because she could not or, would not control her emotions. I carried that sense of superiority into my first marriage. Even though I often felt like a victim, and I was, I had a sense of moral outrage at this person who was treating me so poorly.

And in my current marriage to a man who was the top student in his elite prep school, has an Ivy League education and a law degree, I have found myself feeling better than him because I can control myself and be calm, rational, and logical when he couldn’t. Fortunately I seldom have that opportunity any more.

I often wonder why people stay in dysfunctional relationships when their partners treat them poorly or are so incompetent that they give little in return. From my own experience I can say with embarrassment that at times I’ve felt like a Mother Teresa figure, giving and giving without hope of reciprocity. Or I’ve felt like the Bodhisatva, being strong and steady as a model for others’ enlightenment.

This is truly humiliating to admit, but sunlight is the best disinfectant and I enjoy laughing at myself when I learn something.

How about you? Do you receive any untoward benefits for tolerating a difficult relationship?

Cat, this is really good stuff you are writing about. I can relate to feeling "better" than my BPD mother because I had better emotional regulation than she does and also was able to accomplish things better than she can. Kind of sad to think this realization started at about age 12 when I began to feel emotionally "older" than she was. Considering she has severe BPD that despite her high intelligence can't really get through a day doing something productive, by age 12 I could get myself to school, do well in school, cook, clean and more. I was parentified.

This also set me in a "special" position with my father, which in actuality was not a good thing, but not getting much attention or parenting from mom, I craved this. So I got "rewarded" with approval for being the more "adult" one, but what I emotionally needed was a mother who was more mature than I was. But this "specialness" was coupled with not ever being good enough to please my mother- an impossible job, and my mother's feelings ruled. She may not have been as capable or caring as I was, but it didn't matter, as her needs were the center of the family.

My H grew up feeling "special" but for different reasons. His mother is co-dependent and basically served his father and siblings. He grew up expecting that women do the domestic work and that because he earned more than I did, his position in the family was "superior". My career was not valued.  My low self esteem allowed me to accept the "lower position" in the relationship. If we had issues, my H blamed me, and I believed him.

I read a lot of books about marriage trying to fix the issue. My H didn't read any nor show any interest in it. He was "fine" with the situation, his rage outbursts kept me in check. He had no clue that I was unhappy or if I he did, assumed it wasn't anything he did. Since I was the one with the messed up family of origin compared to his, I assumed he was fine. I had no clue that something like BPD existed. I knew something was off with my mother but didn't know why.

You've read my posts about the lines in the book Passionate Marriage that basically says we match our partners and that each one thinks they are "better" at emotional regulation than the other. This stood out to me, not because I thought I was the "better one" but that my H thought he was, and I accepted that. But then, I wasn't the one having rage outbursts, being verbally abusive, or refusing to help around the house, giving me the silent treatment or refusing to take any responsibility for our marital issues. I was very unhappy, yet he truly believed I was "hurting" him if I tried to say anything.

Hmmm...fast forward- figured out mom, looked at how my own background set the stage for relationship choices. In my readings, found my H had traits of some PD's but couldn't put my finger on what. Eventually figured out that there was dysfunction in his family too, even though I didn't see it as I only knew what my own family looked like.

Fast forward even more - I chose to work on me. He didn't want to do this for himself - I wonder if he truly believes he doesn't need it or that admitting it would cause shame- but he has made some changes and I think it's been influenced by my own changes. I'm proud of the self work I have done but well aware that there's always more to do. Know that sometimes we backtrack but if we catch ourselves doing it, and adjust, that's progress.

So, basically, I see the feeling "better" as not a good thing because that passage in the book rang true for me. By feeling better, we may not see the areas we need to work on or the contribution we make to the issues. But on the other hand, we should not accept the situation of being "lesser". Yet, one result of self worth is better self esteem. That's a good thing and we can be proud of that. You've done good Cat, own it.

I didn't stay in the relationship to feel like the more capable one. The decision was influenced by the children. He's a good father and the issues were mainly between us, but he was a better father if I took care of the child care responsibilities and he could hang out with them once they were old enough to do that. If there was any "superiority" though, it was because I truly believed I was the more emotionally stable when it came to parenting and sometimes felt I was the one that helped protect them from his moods. Considering how I was raised, there was no way I could have let them experience that. The kids are older now and the relationship is different. There is no way I would tolerate how he treated me when we were first married, and he knows that.

Do you receive any untoward benefits for tolerating a difficult relationship?
 
Great question? I don't think there are straight forward answers to this question. I certainly have become a better person by taking the high road with my partners, friends, and family members with BPD. I also am terribly sad about having spent so much time and so much of my life, being in these type of relationships, and how damaged I have been by being raised by a mother with BPD, and then attracting people with BPD into my life. At times, I feel angry and superior to people with BPD in my life. Then I realize that this is not healthy, that what I am saying about others, is a reflection of how I feel about myself. I am working on compassion, as having compassion for others is also about having compassion for myself, and the road to healing.

I get what you are saying, but think it is OK put a positive spin on it without feeling any guilt. Family bonds are close and there are reasons for staying in relationships beyond feeling like we are either weak and can't get of it or are  superior and are sacrificing ourselves as a dutiful martyrs. (I have felt both at times.)   These circumstances put so much strain on our self esteem, that acknowledging a certain amount of inner strength, maturity and insight to deal with it all, and giving your self a pat on the back for it once in a while, is probably a good thing. Thank you for bringing this topic up.

Well...is there anything wrong with stating/feeling/believing what is accurate.

If in fact you are "better" at controlling your emotions, doesn't that indicate that you are "better" at being an adult (vice being a toddler).

I don't see anything wrong at all with feeling "better" about yourself for realizing that you are "better" at something than someone else. 

Might be conflating "better" and "value" (as in the value of human life)...although then you have to say "value to ?".  Is a society better off with a bunch of emotional toddlers or with people with emotional control.

Umm...as long as we are being honest...let's be honest.

Best,

FF

So in the world of being honest - l like this take on the issue.  The more I delve into things, the less I like the term BPD traits - as if they are on a spectrum of the disorder.  Traits are traits - and we have good ones and we have bad ones - just like good and bad days.

To have a personality disorder is not about traits - its about being dis-ordered. That is the issue - and the spectrum here is how deep the dis-ordered-ness goes.

So for sure some of will be better on certain days than the other - and when the relationship troubles are about traits - then I think there is far more hope for reconciliation than if a disorder exists that produces certain behaviors.

Where true BPD or NPD exists, I have my doubts for resolution.

My two cents on the matter.

Rev

Great thought-provoking responses!  |iiii

I think where "feeling better than" one's partner becomes problematic is when one begins to feel contempt, along with the inward eye-rolling and internal dialog "There he/she goes again!" I admit I've been there. And feeling arrogant doesn't lead to creating or maintaining a healthy relationship.

If we're in a marital partnership, we should be on equal footing. Otherwise maybe we shouldn't be in an equal partnership or we should define it more in terms of caregiving or supporting. 

Everyone brings their own baggage from their personal history and if we didn't have some unaddressed previous issues, it's likely that we would have spotted some odd behavior at the outset and never involved ourselves with a pwBPD. Yes, it's possible to naively enter into a relationship with a pwBPD, but I think it's more common to repeat a pattern from our family of origin.

Today I've been outside gardening, which gives me quiet time for contemplation. It occurred to me that one of my secondary gains of "feeling better than," particularly with my rather accomplished and very intelligent husband, is that I can temporarily ignore my own mediocrity.

Quite honestly, I'm exceptionally good at being mediocre in a variety of pursuits, a Renaissance woman of mediocrity! Gardening,  horsemanship, writing, cooking, housework, yoga--pretty much everything I do I could evaluate as mediocre. But I enjoy doing most things, with the exception of cooking, so that's something. (And I'm not being self critical, though it may sound that way--just honest.)

My self-esteem took a big hit growing up with a BPD mother. And it further suffered being in a relationship with an abuser. But at this point in life, I feel pretty good about myself, all things considered. But I realize that I cannot point to one area where I can say with certainty that I excel. Hence, there's my secondary gain from "feeling better than" and a very unhealthy pattern, now that I recognize it.

Certainly many people stay in relationships that are difficult, unfulfilling, challenging, not for unhealthy reasons. But sometimes there might be a positive feedback loop lurking under the surface that may not be healthy. I think it's helpful to identify those less than altruistic patterns. We can then decide if we want to continue with them or if there might be a better way to be.

For me, I've realized that "feeling better than" can give a self-esteem boost, but it's like junk food. It feels good at the time, but it undermines health in the long run. Far better to meet my partner on a level playing field and realize that we both are doing our best in the moment, but that what is the best can get better with awareness.

Great discussion!  Keep it up.


Hmmm...says who?

OK...I get it...Cat Familiar..that's who.  I guess I should ask what "rule book" says this?

Cat,

Are you intellectually on equal footing with your hubby?  Especially with regards to the ability to think through/process legal issues? 

Try this on for size.  Instead of looking for a marriage of "equals", why not look at marriage as building a complete team.  Where one is "lesser" the other is "more" and vice versa.   

Best,

FF

The term "equal footing" to me means balanced in terms of superior/inferior. In a marital relationship, the view that one partner is "superior", implying that the other is "inferior", is damaging to the health of the relationship.

Certainly, there will be strengths and weaknesses of both partners, and that does not mean that there is an overall "superiority" of one partner versus another. But I do believe that I fell into the trap of feeding my own ego with the smug perception that I was superior in terms of mental and emotional health.

I think Cat is definitely correct that anytime contempt seeps in it is not good for the relationship or for one's own personal mental/emotional health. Even before it gets to that level, there can be a dismissive attitude that crops up and this is when invalidation of another person is likely to occur.

Naturally, there will be times when we are exasperated when it seems that someone is overreacting or feeling strongly about something that seems trivial or not a big deal to us. Those are the times in which it is easy to perceive ourselves as more mature than, more emotionally intelligent than someone else. This may be the truth, but using the facts to inflate our own self-perceptions and bolster our self-esteem is, as Cat says, merely a "feel-good" measure in the moment that has long-term consequences.

My perception that I was more emotionally intelligent and more mentally healthy than my ex kept me stuck on the hamster wheel spinning around trying to get him to just see things my way because it was the best thing for him. That didn't work, and it was actually a very unhealthy thing for me to do which just proved that even if I was the more stable and emotionally/mentally healthy partner in the relationship, it wasn't much of a margin, after all.

Totally agree with you, FF. Marriage ideally is about building a "complete team." Yeah, I'm on equal footing intellectually. He has more knowledge about some things and I have more in other areas. He's a scholar and I'm a handywoman. So we definitely have different skillsets we bring.

Redeemed, you and me both! I tried to show both husbands "the error in their ways."   lol   Invalidation is a relationship assassin!

Something that impacts my relationship is that in Meyers-Briggs terms, I'm a Thinker and he's a Feeler. Yeah, he can analyze things really well when he's not emotionally invested, but if he is, well...his cognitive skills lose a step, and that's saying it politely.

When that happens, it's real easy for me to as he puts it, "get on my high horse." I always laugh when I hear that phrase because I think of people who ride giant warmblood horses, while I ride my 14.3 hand quarter horse. (I don't have a "high horse" lol )

For him, I can seem robot-like because I don't get emotional about things that he thinks should elicit those feelings. Having been around my overly emotional mother, I'm really glad I'm more like my rational and measured father.

Me too. I think my feelings of superiority are rooted in defensiveness? Like JADEing, only in my head. I'm proving to myself that I'm right.

Great topic, Cat. Thanks for bringing this up.

Just a simple add to this very interesting conversation - equal does not mean same.  Equal means asking - what presence do I need to be in my partner's life for them to be "a better version" of themselves and how do I celebrate that.  AND ... in the world of not wanting to be codependent - do I see myself as being equally worthy of the same treatment from my partner?

My other two cents.

Rev

Excellent question!  :wee: 

If we polled members here, I would bet that few of us have taken this to heart.

So in the world of being honest - l like this take on the issue.  The more I delve into things, the less I like the term BPD traits - as if they are on a spectrum of the disorder.  Traits are traits - and we have good ones and we have bad ones - just like good and bad days.

To have a personality disorder is not about traits - its about being dis-ordered. That is the issue - and the spectrum here is how deep the dis-ordered-ness goes.


I think for me, the idea of "traits" is more about looking at myself than the other person. If we know that the family we grew up in has influenced how we choose a partner, and that we "match" our partners in certain ways, then if I can identify traits in that partner that I match with my own issues, and this leads to issues in the marriage- it's an idea that can give me tools to improve on and hopefully improve the relationship.

We don't do formal diagnoses here. To diagnose a disorder, someone would have to meet certain criteria and be assessed by a professional. The purpose would be for a professional to then formulate a treatment plan. This isn't where we are at.

I think the spectrum idea is important too. Some individuals with a disorder are more severely affected than others. There are cases of people who have improved their BPD through therapy - but they need to be motivated to do so. There are others who are not motivated to go through therapy.

I think the decision to stay or leave involves looking at the situation, can it be improved or not. I think most people who are in a committed relationship are likely to be interested in seeing if things can improve first, using the relationship tools here, and personal counseling, self work- because we can't change the other person but if we have matching "traits" maybe we can change these in ourselves, which may change the pattern.

My frame of reference is by dealing with my BPD mother and then looking at my own marriage. She is severe- diagnosed, and has years of therapy with no improvement. I think that's enough to decide that this is a situation that isn't likely to improve. My father "matched" her in his co-dependent behaviors although he was the more emotionally stable and functional partner.

My H isn't anything like my mother and would not meet diagnostic criteria for any disorder. While I have some co-dependent "traits" I am not like my father. So one would think there wouldn't be the same issues. I was completely shocked when I saw that we had some similar issues as theirs, albeit milder thankfully. They were enough that I was unhappy in my marriage, and it was a difficult situation. As it is, he had just enough personality "traits" of whatever you want to call it,  to match my own "traits" ( and vice versa) to make us both reactive to each other and cause harm to the marriage. It was a larger problem than someone not putting the toothpaste top back or someone having an "off day" and a much smaller issue than I saw with my parents, but we were stuck in dysfunctional relationship patterns regardless.

The idea of identifying certain"traits" for lack of a better word, was a useful tool. Whether it is real or not, or established in the DSM-5 didn't apply. The next question was- could working on my own issues improve things? It did. It didn't completely change everything but it did lead to improvement in the relationship dynamics.  It even improved my relationship with my BPD mother as I became less reactive to her and better able to stay calm when I was with her. Has she improved in her BPD? No. But this is all trial and error and I think for those of us in a committed relationship, using the tools to at least see what might happen can be a useful idea no matter what we call the issues in the other person.

I agree with Notwendy that looking at oneself and examining those family of origin traits we’ve inherited/adopted is a powerful tool. When we change ourselves, we change the relationship, and likely this creates a change in our partner too.

When I first came to this site, I was tremendously angry, after a lifetime of feeling victimized by pwBPD. I wasn’t interested in changing me, but rather in changing my current husband so that he would behave properly. (Of course proper was by my definition.)

Instead, I was confronted by the idea that it was me that needed to change.  :cursing: :cursing:  I’ve put up with this cr@p for all these years and now I have to be the one to do all the work?  :cursing:  Yep. That’s how it goes.

So I began, rather reluctantly, but being the pragmatist that I am, I noticed that the more I learned and incorporated into my behavior, the smoother my relationship ran. And when roadblocks invariably happened, I was able to drive around them, rather than getting highcentered on top of them.

I see members here on Conflicted, often being stuck for years in troubling relationships. I want to tell them, “Hey, just try learning and using a rule or two.”

So often I see the same attitude that I had: “It’s his/her problem. Why should I be the one who has to do all the work? I’m exhausted already by putting up with them.”

I want to say, “Let’s look at this from a totally selfish prospective. You want your life to be nicer? Let’s make that happen! Just try one thing—maybe don’t be invalidating (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=81442.0) . And do that for a month and see what happens.”

Ah... now I see why I am feeling like I missed something. My apologies.  The theme of this thread comes under a different category.  My sincere apologies.  My comments are misplaced on this thread.

They are far better applied to "Healing after a break-up".

So I recant.   Here it is far, far better to look at traits, because that is what can be dealt with and the best opportunity to make things better.  So again, my apologies.

Rev

No worries. I'd certainly agree that full-blown BPD is agonizingly impossible to live with.

Perhaps if I had learned the tools in my first marriage, and had been more emotionally intelligent, had better boundaries, and was more capable of speaking my truth, and had a better understanding of the dynamics of being in an abusive marriage--perhaps I could have made a go of that relationship.

Nah.

He was far too damaged.

After I broke up with him, he got involved with someone else, broke up with her and trash talked her around town, then married someone else, assaulted her and was written up in the newspaper, fled the state to Hawaii before his arraignment, was on the wanted list for years, flew to Florida without ever saying goodbye to his elderly mother who had always been kind to him and died without seeing him, and now apparently regularly skips out on paying his bills, as the collection agencies frequently contact me (ah the Internet is forever) trying to find him.

No apologies necessary. Surely the full disorder is most difficult to deal with but in my situation even traits led to problems when combined with my own ways of reacting to them. And they can also lead to break ups too.

It’s so variable but I think a common thread is the relationship patterns between two people. I also agree with Cat that sometimes no amount of self work can help the situation enough - but that’s an individual decision.

Your posts are valuable Rev. We all have something to contribute .

Cat, if "better" does not sit well with you, how about "enlightened" to describe us nons?

pwBPD have little or no self awareness, and so they act out and use their non partners as punching bags.  We can easily see their defence mechanisms and personality disorder, but they are oblivious.

Interesting subject 'am I feeling better than my partner'? Well my immediate answer has to be yes, I am self-aware and can label my feelings, I can usually attribute them and recognise them for what they are. Perhaps most importantly to me I can know that they will pass.

The difficulty with having a BPD partner is that one gets 'hijacked and sidelined' by the disordered feelings of another, these feelings then projected onto us as the 'non' and of course there is nothing we can do with them. I have come to realise that the vast majority of 'feelings and emotions' in my relationship are not mine, thus its like having somebody else renting space in my head! Almost akin to an 'infection' something alien that has a deleterious effect on my own well being until my natural protective mechanisms cut in.

It is thus easy sometimes to react inappropriately until one takes a step back and realises what is happening. The person with BPD cannot do that, in fact once the 'crisis' has passed they seem to have no recognition of it until the next event.

 I have come to realise that the vast majority of 'feelings and emotions' in my relationship are not mine, thus its like having somebody else renting space in my head!

We actually speak of this in co-dependency 12 step groups and how to work on improving this. It's actually a boundary situation.

I think that partners of pwBPD tend to lean to the co-dependent side, whether or not it is completely to that side. I think it's also a spectrum. From what I have read, a person with healthy emotional boundaries will feel discomfort when starting a relationship with someone who has poor emotional  boundaries. That relationship is not likely to last long. However, two people with poor boundaries might match better.

Rather than say "better" I think we can say "different in different ways". I agree that our emotional self awareness is better in that sense. I think the non is more likely to seek help for the issues because BPD has other mechanisms for coping such as denial and projection that make them less aware of their own issues. However, I also think that sometimes we need someone to turn the mirror on us as it is hard to see areas where there can be improvement.

It was a MC who recommended 12 step groups for me. I was puzzled at the idea. Alcohol and drugs were not an issue for me or the marriage. I assumed that this was what a 12 step group was about,  but I realized it has a broader application. I also learned that the dynamics in BPD relationships were similar to those in a relationship where alcohol or other addictions were involved. There is one spouse with the "problem" and then, another spouse who is upset about the problem and is trying to fix it for both of them.

I was fortunate to have a sponsor who turned the mirror on me. It wasn't easy, and sometimes I was angry and upset, but it also led me to making changes. So yes, in some ways we might be "better" but this perspective might also make it hard to see where we might be contributing to issues.

Yikes! That’s a huge leap. Perhaps more self aware would be suitable, but my point is that when we make comparisons and rank ourselves more favorably, we are inevitably feeding a discrepancy between us and furthering the destruction of our relationship.


We have options. We don’t have to “take the punch”—we can refuse to participate in conflict, we can exit heated situations, we can improve our communication and boundaries, and if all else fails, we can end the relationship.

Yes, they certainly can take all the oxygen in the room at times. I’ve had to learn to step back from my attempts to manage my husband’s feelings and just let him be. It has felt alien to me to merely ignore his feelings, but it seems to work better than when I previously tried to get involved and soothe him.

I absolutely agree with you, Notwendy that we “nons” need someone to turn the mirror on us.

What is our secondary gain from these relationships? I would bet that a lot of us feel like we are noble and unselfish for being in these relationships with difficult partners.

Codependency can mask a lack of self esteem. Because if we truly felt good about ourselves, would we tolerate unkind behavior from our partners?

Cat

Not "arguing with you"...I believe I understand and appreciate your point.

However, flip it around.  How does pretending there is not a discrepancy between partners going to improve any relationship?

Perhaps it's whether or not there is a "mean spirit" involved in this.

My wife and I aren't on the same emotional planet.  That's the facts.  Pluses and minuses to both of us for where we are.

I know that going into an emotional conversation with my Mom, it's helpful to listen to my wife for a while.  There is going to be a point of view there that I simply don't have.   The issue at hand was buying Mom a home "up here". 

Had I not gotten my wife's point of view, I would have been handicapped and less effective.  Even though some of the "arguments" my wife share were "unreasonable", because I listened and understood (vice judged) I was not as surprised when my Mom started tossing out reasons why.

At one point the deal was Kaput because there was not a TV in the house.  (this is an empty house listed by a realtor...of course there isn't a TV in there)

I wish I could recall exactly what my wife said to me, but something about lots of emotions will come out "hiding" in the things she says that don't make sense.

Anyway...I'm an ESTJ so I don't shy away from judgment.  In fact I usually invite it.

Now, in my example above it was to my benefit that my wife and I aren't in the same place emotionally.  Other times...well...you guys know.

Best,

FF

There is a discrepancy if you compare skills in a certain area.

But it's also really hard to see where oneself has work to do. Feeling like the "better one" can mask this.

I also reference the use of  the word "differentiation" in  book Passionate Marriage and the line "each partner thinks he or she is the more differentiated one". A huge eye opener because, yes - I thought I was but if you asked my H, he thought he was.

Whether or not this is actually the truth, if each partner perceives it this way- this is truth to them.

It's subtle FF. I don't propose we think we are so flawed we don't bring needed stregnths to the relationship but erring on "better" might mask the areas we need to work on. You have done some personal work, and so you are better than before, but I would be cautious about perception. It's good to have an objective person to work with such as a counselor like you do.

Of course there’s a discrepancy In abilities to communicate calmly, not take things personally, manage one’s temper, and be on an even keel emotionally.

I’m not suggesting otherwise.

The problem is when we puff up our egos about how we are the “good one” and our partners are  :cursing: .

To your point, FF, our partners often have skill sets we don’t have and sometimes they are more aware of our deficits than we imagine.

When provoked, or just plain irritable, pwBPD have an uncanny ability to find, and poke, our weak spots.

Is that good?

Jungian psychology is the basis of the Myers-Briggs products that are used to help executive understand their strengths and weaknesses when leading or working with people.

In the ESTJ profile, the trait of being judgemental is considered a weakness. The greater the intensity of thistrait, the more problematic. Inflexibility and stubbornness are also a weaknesses of this personity cluster.

In Myers-Briggs coaching, an ESTJ would be strongly encouraged to recognize their weaknesses in relating to others and temper them - not to fly a pride flag or double down.  *)

Think about it. For example , someone who is ISTJ has insensitivity as weakness. Insensitivity is not a pride flag or a trait to double down. It strains relationships.

So does being judgemental or stubborn (ESTJ)

ESTJ will struggle to have relationships with another ESTJ or an ENFJ, INFJ, INFP, or ENFP. To do so they must be very self aware of their impacts on these personality types.

There are many reasons, but the one you are touching on here, "Feeling like we are “better” than our partners", is probably rooted codependency.

Many of the dysfunctional things that we do are based on insecurities and codependency is one - we feel better about ourselves when we are superior to our partner. We focus on fixing their problems so we don't have to fix ours.

One thing I've learned about climbing up te ladder or emotional intelligence, is that there are always more rungs above us.

I was as unaware of my own codependency as a fish might be of the water in which he swims. And I have had therapy off and on for many years.

Recently I’ve been able to have some epiphanies about how I’ve defined myself in terms of my significant other and how I’ve tried to control his behavior.

From that vantage point, I’m now trying to observe, as if I were a wildlife biologist, and not interfere, and let him be him. And as a corollary, I’m letting me be me. It’s a much less stressful way of moving through life, but I need to remain mindful.

I remember learning years ago that the only appropriate comparison is self to self, never self to other. How much healthier it is to compare one’s understanding to the self one used to be, rather than to attempt to boost one’s ego by comparison to someone else!

I can absolutely relate to this.

For a long time now, and I’ve been aware of my codependency, I’ve been so wrapped up in my dBPDw’s shortcomings that I became a selfish, controlling, invalidation machine, and it’s caused a serious breakdown in communication and we’re consequently separated.

It struck me like watching The Sixth Sense, I was able to look back and discover all the dishonest mixed messages I would put out in an attempt to undermine my wife’s need for autonomy. I’m so mad at myself, and more than a little embarrassed by my behavior.

This view kept me stuck for a long time.   I acted like I was a martyr for staying in a bad situation.  The truth is that I always played a part in the dysfunction.  I don't find it helpful when people make generalities about those with BPD or NPD.  A very small portion of those on the board are with someone is actually diagnosed.  I have known several people with this disorder, some have way more insight than others, some seem to intentionally harm people, whereas as some are more depressive.

I heard something on a TV show one time about something called 'outrageous oversight.'  It's where someone's behavior is so over the top that I give myself a pass for my own behavior. I did that for a long time and the situation kept deteriorating.  I hung onto the role of victim and nothing changed.  Until I was willing to own my part, I couldn't heal it move forward.   I think that happens quite a bit here.

This is too, too true...   These days, given the advent of neuroscience, we are discovering that he next step in this journey is to develop a truly spiritual relationship, with oneself, but with-in oneself. 

I don't know if that makes sense - very buddhist I know - but there it is. In fact, I have a colleague where I study who is considering a Phd in understanding the role of transcendence to access childhood trauma. 

Fascinating.

Rev

absolutely. most of us get that its not a good idea to look at how much better off someone seems than we do. no healthier to do the inverse.


looking back, feeling superior was part of believing my partner needed me, and was incapable of leaving me, and there was a lot of comfort in that for someone who had been hurt before and feared abandonment.

imagine how that crumbled when she did leave.

I must admit to having some trouble with this at the moment and I think maybe it is because I am seeing the co-dependency exists within me. Taken as a straightforward question - am I co-dependent the answer would seem to be yes.

My boundaries are often weak, I do struggle at times with self esteem, I like facts but feel discomfort confronting feelings and undoubtedly I can be controlling at times.

Does this make me a bad person though? Is it really saying that in order to survive I have to compare myself with and feel superior to another who has an illness? Am I in fact comparing myself with them? Maybe it is more correct to say that I am beginning to compare myself now with how I used to be and to what extent these character traits are simply part of me and always have been and perhaps to what extent I accept who I am.

I know my Myers-Briggs type, its ISTJ, and yes quite strong on the J - Im not proud of that and have worked to reduce Judgement -practising mindfulness to help see my judgements for what they are.

NotWendy mentions 12 step groups and for some time I attended these, they certainly helped me see some of my areas to change and counselling also helped to turn a mirror on myself.

To what extent though can I change or is it more about to what extent do I want to?

I am not 'better' than my partner - I am better at dealing with life and what it throws at me, I don't look at and envy others but I do accept that I have been part of my relationship problem - BPD (diagnosed in my partner) - co-dependency - recognised in me - perhaps its just oil and water - can never mix?

For the parners- it's not a good feeling to be on the receiving end of that "superiority". This was the case with me and it was easy to fall into it being that I was the family scapegoat growing up and felt that nothing I could do was "good enough" for my parents. Still, I tried, and I suspect my H enjoyed me trying harder and harder to be "good enough" for him.

One of the issues was emotions. He was stoic, but could accellerate from calm to an angry outburts in seconds. This scared me and my usual response was to cry, out of fear. This triggered him even more and he would tell me that such feelings were weaknesses. I found it hard to connect with him emotionally. He presented himself as the calm and in control one. This was very hard for me as one of my fears was being like my mother, who disregulated frequently- crying, screaming, and was clearly out of control.

Neither of us had good role models for emotional regulation. His father was just like him. Big boys don't cry.. But quick to anger. If my H had cried, his Dad would have lit into him. In my home the only feelings that were focused on were my BPD mother's. She had feelings but no empathy. If I cried as a child, she yelled at me. It's because she couldn't manage her own feelings, how could she manage someone else's. But this dynamic was paralleled with my H.

I was however, an expert at managing someone else's feelings. It was survival in my home growing up. I learned to be very sensitive to people's moods, step in and soothe them in some ways. We could tell what mood my mother was in just by looking at her, and walking on eggshells was the norm.

What a great match for my H. I suspect it was part of the attraction. All he would need to do was grumble and I would panic and start "fixing" things.

So on the scale of "skills", I have a high EQ when it comes to relationships and other people. I can relate to their feelings. My H on the other hand doesn't do that well. Yet he has other skills. I think I was attracted to his calmness ( when not angry). The anger showed itself after marriage and surprised me. Maybe there were small signs but not as obvious.

When it came to emotional regulation, my task was to learn to regulate my own emotions in the face of someone being angry and upset with me. That was scary to me, growing up, if my parents were angry, that was not going to go well. But my H being angry was not as threatening- he didn't show any signs of harming me, I just couldn't manage my own feelings. If I got emotional, then things would get worse.

I think for those of us who have co-dependency tendencies, it is our own fears we are "managing" by managing someone else's feelings, but we need to be able to manage our own.

And for those who feel superior, it is likely masking an area that needs work on, like an insecurity.

We can and should "feel" our feelings. How we express them requires the ability to self soothe. This can vary according to our personalities.  But neither extreme- showing no emotions or being out of control is, IMHO good for a relationship.