BPDFamily.com

Greetings.

I have already seen a lot of valuable advice in the ressources section of this board and will digest it as I feel able to. Right now, however, I'd like some... advice and support. I feel positively dreadful and may have to make a major decision, or rather, potentially reverse it... tomorrow.

Me
I am 33, male, above average IQ but pretty much failed at life, 1,88m at 126kg, rather buff, martial artist. I have a history of being psychologically abusive in relationships without noticing until about four years ago I finally got a proper diagnosis, suffering from Narcissistic personality disorder. So far every professional has refused to attempt treatment due to "not feeling up to the challenge" or by reason of me being perfectly normal. Yes, both happened. I found some valuable support in a twelve-step program, hoping to improve, and so far the feedback I get is quite positive. While I have not used physical violence to enforce my will, with the exception of preventing someone from harming themselves, once, people tend to be scared of me, especially when I am angry. I am also told that I seem threatening and condescending in general and especially when challenged in some way.

The past
We met about ten years ago, established a loose friendship. About six years ago we kind of "agreed" to a relationship, figuring that we'd both be sufficiently competent in communication and mental resilience to deal with each other and also feeling quite attracted to one another. We laid down some groundrules for our relationship, including absolute loyalty independent from current emotional states, having a polyamorous set-up, allowing for flexibility in dealing with certain needs and emotions without threatening our union, and supporting each other in dealing with issues from the outside, as, i.e. lack of money, problems with authorities or possibly other disgruntled individuals. She had been diagnosed with BPD for as long as I know her, by several professionals. She also had a pretty severe substance abuse problem.
Pretty much from the start she tried to take a submissive role, which I flat out rejected. I also got her to agree on taking it slow on the physical side, especially while that whole submission issue was unresolved.
While statistically impossible, she got pregnant after three months. With the help of several extremely competent and supportive medical professionals we managed the situation so our daughter could be born without any measurable issues in spite of her addiction problem. We moved to a nice, pretty large house with a garden, which was also rather cheap at the time.
For the following 15 months I took care of our daughter while supporting her in trying to get clean. Meant, pretty much the whole time she was on withdrawal. Not exactly a "good time" having a borderline on opiate-withdrawal and a baby, but I managed somehow and we are not at odds with our landlord, neighbours, the authorities or anyone else for that matter and are not in debt. For me it was kind of hellish, but hey, understanding personality defects as a chance, narcissists are quite durable.
Eventually she finally managed to get clean and stayed clean ever since. Even stopped smoking. We got to a point where things were looking quite alright. According to a close friend of ours, for the first time in her life, she felt at home and somehow, happy. Lasted about nine months. Then she suddenly aproached me and told me we had immediate, severe financial issues, we'd have to immediately terminate our rental contract, move to a smaller place, and while we are at it, should probably move into two seperate flats and reconsider having a relationship at all. I was kind of flattened and approached the discussion from a logical perspective, noting that neither did we have immediate financial concerns of any gravity, nor would moving help, as the area had since become a lot more expensive and most smaller places would cost more than the house. The issue was dropped. Since then nothing seemed to be okay, at all. She started telling me, she was, loosely translated, "over the top". Trying to get her to clarify, I think it meant, under severe emotional stress. She agreed it was that typical borderline, self-reinforcing super-anxiety thing. I tried my best to find the root cause, but every conversation something else seemed the problem. Either it was something that could not be solved - as in, immediately needing a comfortable financial buffer, or organizing a massive, super-expensive wedding. It was something, that could, possibly, be solved, like "needing space" and seperating our living situation for a time, but her approach was illogical, overly expensive and simply would not have worked. Alternative suggestions were ignored. Or there were issues, that could be solved, like more "assistance" in household matters from my side (I was doing most of that at the time.), however, the specific issues we had discussed, she suddenly started taking care of like some prussian automaton, immediately doing everything possible and not really giving me a chance to do anything. (Every other kind of household maintenance, meanwhile, was ignored completely.) This was then used as "proof" that I'd not be willing to support her and that I would not take her problem seriously. I once made the effort to actually be even faster than she was and after about two weeks she gave up. The next conversation, she claimed that household-issues and maintenance was never the issue and she'd have no problem at all taking care of that little bit of work.
Eventually I started seeing a pattern and began confronting her about it. Whenever I tried to tell her that maybe she should re-evaluate her perception of the situation, she'd ignore me. If I kept asking, she'd grow angry, insult me, claim I had completely lost all measure of what is "normal". If that did not fend me off, she'd say she could not deal with this situation, we'd have to stop talking immediately or she would likely be forced to hurt herself or at least medicate herself, meaning, relapse into her drug-habit, to prevent that. I once ignored the threats and she started searching frantically for pills in a place that was guaranteed to have none (there are none in the house that I know of, anyway) but that was very visible to where I had sat during the conversation.
After the first time I really pushed her to recognize that maybe something was off with her perception of our overall situation (I still took care of our daughter, she was free to do with her time as she wanted, had a second, less committed relationship on the side, and while we were somewhat dependent on financial support from both our families, there was not immediate issue with rent or daily living expenses) and that maybe the problems were not as massive as she made them, I was approached by the same, common friend as before, who was quite upsed with me. She had told him, that she had tried to break up with me, but I threatened to take away our daughter from her if she dared. That never happened. We did have a conversation about seeking seperate habitation, and I told her that it would be better if the kid stayed with me, as I had been the primary care-taker, and had a more stable, child-friendly daily life. She's an artist and a designer and often has to work on weekends or evenings. But I never, ever threatened to "take our daughter away from her".
I approached her, told her we had issues in our communication that we obviously could not solve by ourselves. We agreed on a plan - visiting a couples' therapist, a couples' twelve-step program and me moving out for a few weeks so she could clear her head. By the time I had gotten a somewhat okay job that made our financial situation a lot better.

The situation now
She had a long term engagement at the time and we postponed most of our plans till that was finished. After that, she kept pushing them back for various reasons. At the same time she had begun an affair with someone. A few days before christmas she told me she had to make a decision now. After a short conversation she asked for time to think and came to the conculsion that we should seperate. I asked her to clarify, calmly, here are some high-lights: "break-ups are normal, she does not understand why I would cause such a fuss", "I never supported her in a practical manner and left her to fend for herself" "the break up has nothing to do with the affair (who does not agree to the poly-concept but demands she make a decision, him or me), except maybe for the timing" "It is in no way necessary for You to understand".
Following that I re-evaluated my strategies of the past and found that letting her walk all over me obviously had not been very conductive to finding solutions. I devised a questioning-tactic that lead her in small steps, via open questions she would answer herself, to the issues at hand. During one of these conversations she agreed that most of the problems she had been complaining about were solvable or made up, but that the core issue was her BPD. That she had never really, emotionally connected with me and did not know if she could.
At that point I got myself educated on BPD. Up to that point I never really cared, thinking it one of many issues, fully discribed by a slight overabundance of emotion that could be handled via avoiding stress. Boy did I feel dumb.
Shortly after that she approached me, suggesting we should probably go see a therapist together. During the ensuing conversation she said, but only after she had moved out. Which prompted me to tell her, that we are done if she insisted on that. (I had told her, in several conversations before, that splitting our contract was impossible and I would probably lose the house that way and could not afford anything nearly as nice for our daughter nearby. I also told her, that it would hit our daughter a lot harder if she actually moved out instead of just taking some time off for a few weeks or even months) hilarity ensued.
Several conversations followed in which ever new reasons were presented - often contradicting each other - as to why moving out was the only possible option. Some interesting tidbits were, that she agreed she had wanted to end the relationship for two years now, had decided to do so but never followed through. She denied that a few hours later. She also told me about the guy she was seeing now, he's over 50, sick, ex-police, super-dominant, dictates pretty strict rules and if she does not follow them ends the relationship and throws her out - but seems to be willing to take her back shortly after. She considers him extremely attractive and the sex to be her actual way to express and experience herself. They are also talking about getting married.
Best one yet - she seemed pretty broken and disoriented after another long talk we had, and told me she felt beaten and dragged and literally (can't repeat that here, but I find it relevant. Sexually abused)  from all sides, constantly. When I tried to say in a consoling, friendly manner, that things were not hopeless, that this is just the thing in her head making her miserable she calmly told me I should stop, she experiences this as violence. I was pretty dumbfounded, honestly and asked why. She told me, that if she allowed to be alienated from herself like that, it would kill her.
To me this is utter nonsense. It may feel like that to her, but honestly, if Your disorder tells You "touch me and You die" it's not exactly smart to listen. She is aware of her diagnosis. If asked about it, she claims, she's had 15 years of therapy and knows exactly what she's doing, her decisions have nothing to do with BPD and I am the crazy one for not seeing that this is perfectly normal and fine. I tried, as calmly and nicely as possible, to confront her about this. Wrote an email detailling my own struggle with my personality disorder, how dropping denial did not kill me at all but pretty much immediately made things a lot better, etc. - she never read it. Two days ago she signed a new rental contract. I was somewhat upset and felt it was finally necessary to react. Wrote another email detailling how I experienced the past two years, how I did not really understand why she would do what she's doing, except for maybe everything fitting exactly into roughly every description of BPD that could possibly be found and that I feel she's finally crossed the line in choosing the desease that's ruined her life and is literally torturing her over any alternative. Yeah. I was a little angry.

My situation now... I am quite aware that I have allowed myself to be exploited pretty badly. My self-esteem and my ability to evaluate my own competence and the realism of my judgement have suffered quite significantly. I am hurt, I am angry. Angry mostly due to the feeling of helplessness as I can not prevent this from happening it seems. She's already broken my trust - this may seem counter-intuitive but I have no issue with her sleeping around or having other relationships. The break of trust, similar to what is usually stacked onto "cheating" came when she decided to break up because someone else got into her life who would not subscribe to the same relationship-model. Also, she is causing a lot of trouble by moving out instead of seeking "distance" in any other way - the only significant, unique trait of this "solution" is that I am fundamentally opposed to it. She is pretty much destroying our home and our family and this will, inevitably, cause a lot of issues for our daughter.
I probably described her as a pretty horrible person here, but that is not how I want to see it. I know that she is a kind, loving, loyal, in many ways even wise individual. Except for the disorder she, right now, refuses to acknowledge. Given her impressive reality-warping skills, I feel emotionally inclined to follow her lead - meaning, taking her word for it, that the disorder is not the problem here. It pretty obviously is, but I have a personality disorder as well and it tries, really hard, to make me take the bait and just punish her for this and all that has happened before with no end. Which, by the way, I can. I could easily get custody of our daughter and I am quite capable of holding a grudge for decades and psychologically and emotionally obliterating people at will. I just kind of try not to do so.
Right now, I don't think there is any way to get trough to her. She'd probably slit her wrists before reversing course. It's probably not a bad idea to let her go and talk afterwards. However, I am simply not ready to just play along this time. This, for me, is the final straw. But if I actually cut her off, I'd annihilate any chance of reconciliation, which is especially important for my daughter, who has a similar temperament to her mother, but has her emotional support mechanism and stability in me. If she has to witness that the external representation of her emotions is kicked out by me, that's going to mess her up for good. And no, getting a proper, competent therapist for her is not something I can do overnight.
If I accept this, I pretty much lose any chance of ever reining in her destructive behaviour. If I don't, and shoot her down (even without actively causing pain) the disorder wins and everyone else loses.
She asked to talk to me tomorrow (friday night). Honestly, I am at a loss. What a messed up desease. I am sorry for her, but yeah. Also angry enough to think she deserves everything that's coming her way. Some help, maybe?

Okay, the topic has been moved; did not feel much like problem solving while writing that, but let's hope this is the right place now.

Another issue has arisen today. We had visited a therapist to talk about our daughter. There she openly contested my claim that I was the primary care-taker and also declared that we had agreed on sharing custody 50/50 while the actual agreement was that I would retain custody, she would visit, later, if feeling up to it, take our daughter into her new appartment for a day, maybe two, etc. until we may eventually reach 50/50.
I know this pattern. She keeps moving details from her internal fantasy world into reality without noting the difference. May not seem problematic, but the details stack up. I fear in a few weeks she'll start claiming she had taken care of our daughter and I only "kept" her to spite her. This is beyond the final straw, this means I actually have to react, no matter how I feel about her. I also read that this was pretty common for BPD mothers while splitting. She is extremely intelligent and focused, and she does not appear troubled at all to the outside. I doubt anyone will stop her, if not me and I doubt there will be a professional around who'd actually manage to make a proper decision here, given her skill at manipulation. Again. Any advice?

hi Camael, and *welcome*


the short answer here is that her BPD is not the prevailing issue between the two of you. the prevailing issue between the two of you, is how the two of you handle conflict.

my own ex was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. there were many conversations spent with me trying to explain to her that the way she was reacting was her bipolar talking, trying to get her to see that. it put me in an increasingly dismissive place, unable to see things from her perspective (which is probably the number one skill you need to survive or thrive in a relationship with someone with BPD traits), it frustrated her, me, and made conflict harder to solve.

there are a lot of moving parts here. this might be a good place to start in terms of a new approach with conflict, its about adopting a problem solving model: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=331852.0

make no mistake, things didnt get to this point over night, and wont be solved over night, but change has to start somewhere.

i would also ask, are you approaching this from a place where you are thinking the relationship is over, and trying to figure out how to best navigate the legal process, or are you looking to reconcile the relationship?

Greetings.

Thank You for the reply. I had originally posted in the "conflicted" board and was moved here. I am kind of aware that I am currently mostly angry and hurt and therefore unable to see reason where it may be easily available. Never the less, I seem to be in the right spot as Your answer already was pretty much on point, I guess.

Concerning problem-solving, well, You may be right. I do place high value on communication skills, especially my own, as I pretty much have to. If I don't try to be open to criticism and learning I'll immediately turn into a self-absorbed nutjob. And I have to put myself into other people's shoes to be able to deal with them, otherwise I'd probably be a raging maniac 24/7.
The problem here is - I can't. She is the one person I met that I never got to really grasp. I have no clue what's going on in her head. If I try to understand she keeps refuting my assessments - be they true or false, it seems. If I simply step back, tell her I don't understand but accept and will try my best, she's just going to walk all over me, as has happened in the past two years.
I recognize that this is as much my issue as it is her's. I am really bad at setting proper boundaries. I tend to hide behind "objective" reasoning and rationality so I don't have to make an emotional choice between unlimited compliance or aggressive domination. And I can't get through on a rational level.
She says she needs "space" - so I tell her, go on holiday. Move out to some temporary lodging or a friend. Go hiking in the himalayas with a friend/almost affair (yeah, that actually came up). I pretty much saw the need so I offered to move out for a few weeks myself. She kept pushing back the date of my moving out and now blames me for "empty words". So now I tried to get her to take the less problematic route first, to get "space" in some non-permanent place for now, so we could both calm down and make better decisions. Not an option. She asked not to be talked to for a while and in the meantime signed a new rental contract in a place nearby.
Rationally this makes no sense. It's a long term decision, she has to sort out all of her stuff (it's an enormous mess clogging the whole house and she's been working on getting trough this for over a year barely making a dent) in a few weeks, it's more expensive and the legal issues with our landlord may force me to leave here as well, with our daughter. It's the most terrible solution and I told her to not do that. Everything else, but not that. And she did exactly that.
So, my first impulse was to use that superficially irrational decision to push her to admit she was being irrational. Given that she had kept blaming me for pretty much all of our problems it was my own defense mechanism to push all her destructive and punishing behaviour into the "insane BPD" corner. I had no other perspective available, honestly.
A friend recently told me she could understand her quite well. That most of the things she accused me of were probably insecurities she held about herself. And that she could not solve anything, whatsoever, if she was prevented from taking responsibility. That this may be the smartest possible move, as it is the only possible move for her. The situation has, for quite a while, been that I failed at setting limits to what I was willing to deal with and had prevented any and all consequences for her, if I was able to. It may well be, "needing space" means she needs to get out of a situation where she feels I am taking away responsibilites and consequences from her by pretty much managing all the crap she's been pulling over the years. She may very well feel terrible and indebted to me and therefore feel the need to leave. Me telling her, I don't see it that way does not seem to solve the issue. And yeah. I guess that is what makes me most angry. The total lack of respect or appreciation I get for my troubles. Don't expect much, just not being insulted over not having done what I obviously have done.
I don't know. Right now, I am angry, hurt and feel helpless due to her just doing whatever she wants. I feel cooperation is dangerous as she keeps "taking" - whenever I admit something that is forever set in stone - the way she understood it. When I offer to cooperate she tends to claim my end of the deal as something we had agreed on, but seems to forget upholding hers'.
I am also, honestly, angry and feel like making a point of not cooperating any longer. Showing her, just how bad things would be if I actually behaved the way she accuses me of. That's probably a bit insane and codependent, I get it and I try not to do it.
Still. Cooperation is dangerous. We agreed on treating each other fairly and rationally when it comes to our daughter. She's already starting to break that agreement. I don't really need legal help, given the situation in the past six years and the available evidence for this she'd be a fool for attempting a custody battle. However, I'd be the one who'd have to put that on the table. I have fought for us to keep our freedom from invasive authorities. I have done quite a few things to keep her from the legal consequences of her addiction issue. If all of that comes up, it's going to be bad for my daughter and me and devastating for her. Don't want to go there. Feel my hand is being forced, though.

Okay. No edit button. Sorry for being generally long-winded and disorganized, brain is mushy.

To answer the question of wether I want to "salvage" the relationship - I don't know. I am, in theory, willing to put in the work. Have been the whole time. I do have strong feelings for her and we are, in many ways, a pretty good match.
It seems though, that she does everything in her power to get me to stop and push me away. I am starting to grasp why.
I don't see how this can be fixed except, with actually accepting the separation and maybe seeing what happens afterwards. I am reluctant to accept this option. I would have to demand that things change and I would have to demand she at least takes responsibility for all the crap that happened. Really can't deal with just sucking it up any longer. I also don't trust this will happen.