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We've been in the process separating over a month now, with split time together in our house and staying elsewhere.  Husband of 10 years, non diagnosed BPD/ at least narcissistic traits.  He's officially moving out Saturday, I know we need a divorce, it's been a crazy making rollercoaster, multiple infidelities, and we haven't had kids because of it and I need to get off the ride.  I know he will not change and need release the hope he will.   

We agreed the separation would be exclusive and once he moves out be no contact a couple of weeks to get clarity for confirming to file or next steps.  This was agreed in couples therapy and on our own.  I know I can't trust him, multiple infidelities/inappropriate behavior, no accountability, empathy or agreement to do any self work, only begrudgingly done some marriage counseling.  But for some crazy reason we had two pleasant nights at home together and he was being very lovey and I decided to check his phone out of curiosity.  He was a having flirtatious a conversation with an ex coworker for a couple of days including talk of visiting her.  I was furious/heartbroken when I saw it, confronted him, and said I wanted to file.  As expected, he turned it on me, he didn't sleep w her so therefore has not broken the terms.  Then turned it totally on me how is he supposed to trust I'm not doing the same (I'm not, never have).  I'm sure you can imagine the gaslighting/defensive same old BS.  I left and have been at a friends.

A few hours later he apologized via text, we didn't talk for the day and then over the last 36 hours have somehow gradually increased to casual conversation.  I know I'm codependent and I'm working on that individually and with my therapist but I guess I'm just looking for any tips on detaching.  I am hurt, I am angry, but part of me doesn't know why I am so hurt when I rationally know I can't trust him and do want a divorce.   I think him officially being out of the house will help but specifically I want try to and make the divorce go smooth and want to balance civil discussion on that but need to try and keep myself from engaging in regular conversation because I know it will just make detaching harder.  Thanks in advance for any tips you may have. 

Dear Cc-

I’m not sure if this will help you, but it sure as heck helped me in Detaching from my BPD/NPD bf (6.5 years).  He left my home in a RAGE on 2/13/2020 & had been staying here because he puts himself in predicaments... we’re both 62.  He has money, so that’s not the issue.

At any rate, over the years, there was always something not quite “fitting” completely with *just* BPD, and someone here posted about Dr. Ramani and her You Tube videos on Narcissistic behaviors.  I watched a few before his last RAGE  and thought “hmmmmm, oh man!  Oh NO!”  So this was kind of fresh in my head on that night in February and in his behaviors leading up to that night.

After he left, I binged on those videos and I’ve not looked back.  She explains the gaslighting, the lies, ruminations, lack of empathy... so so much.

So if you suspect your H has narcissistic traits, this *could* help you?  Just google Dr. Ramani narcissism.  I’d suggest you watch the ones where she’s alone (not with the guy).

And just an FYI... My exBF has three kids who he has not seen nor spoken to since they were under 10 years old.  I don’t know the truth of why.  And it bothers him not at all.  Not at all.  He lied about that, too.

Wishing you the best.  I know how difficult ending a marriage is... dreams are hard to release.  But you can have this with a healthier, more loving man.  And you’re NOT the bad things your H has likely told you that you are.  His flaws and emptiness belong to him.

Please let me know what you think of Dr. Ramani.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

Dear Gemsforeyes-

Thanks so much for the response, I actually have seen many of Dr. Ramani's videos and subscribe to her channel, she is fantastic and has definitely helped get me to the point I'm at now with asking for the separation.  I'd been holding on hope for a while this time would be different and he'd change like he kept saying.  My job has a lot of data entry and Dr. Ramani is one of the YouTube channels I've been listening to a lot lately while I work, she's like a great dose of reality/validation. 

One video of hers she talked about our need for getting a diagnosis on the person, which many of us, including me, will never get.  While she said she can't diagnose people she hadn't met, if we relate to her videos or people exhibit even some of these traits, the least she can say is they exhibit some toxic behavior and we shouldn't be subjected to that.
 That video alone was really helpful bc I have suspected for years he has BPD/narcissism or some variation and had wanted to know FOR SURE, but he had consistently refused individual help.   He's the charming, everyone loves him kind of guy on the surface so I love the validation her videos give me that a lot of this other behavior is not healthy or acceptable. 

Also thanks for the insight on your exBFs kids, I'm 32 and the rollercoaster that's prevented us from having kids was mentioned in another post and some people also gave me some insight on thinking long and hard about having kids with him which also has been a concern of mine for a long time. 

All the best and appreciate your feedback!

some of your struggle is logistical and legal. i cant really speak to that. i dont have any experience in the process.

some of your struggle is emotional.

detaching is really about letting go of the relationship and the conflict around it. the two of you, in a lot of ways, are carrying out the old battles from the relationship, into the stage of breaking up.

if you want an amicable divorce, thats key.

I empathize with your struggle and have been there, and am still somewhat there--almost 25 years with a partner with undiagnosed BPD.  We are in the process of separating now (for the second time), this time it was my decision.  I have gotten my own place and am in the process of moving things out.  We went through SIX couples therapists and I can relate to the kinds of experiences you discuss, including her lack of willingness to do the personal work necessary to make changes.

My main advice for detachment is:

* PRACTICE: I have found it useful to anticipate an interaction that would likely suck me in, and rehearse it in my mind in advance, and prepare mentally and emotionally to respond with detachment instead of by letting myself get sucked in.  If you have a good therapist or trusted friend you could even role play with them--have them play the role of your BPD partner saying or doing something that you would find hard to respond to with detachment, and practice it.  If you find it hard to internally detach, start at least with "external" detachment--such as not apologizing and not defending or justifying yourself.  I also found several mantras to be helpful to repeat to myself internally and even say to my partner, such as "I accept that you feel that way."  Lisa A. Romano (life coach) has a great one: "I accept that you hold that inaccurate belief about me."

* SELF-LOVE: Ross Rosenberg's approach has this as the "cure" for codependency.  I have found this to be true for me.  The more I have grown to love and accept myself, the better I have become at detaching from my BPD partner.  I think it is because I "attach" when my partner blames or criticizes me, and I respond with a clinging apology motivated by my desire for her approval and acceptance, due to my own deficiency in self-love.  As I have grown in self-love, I have found it more easy and even natural to respond with detachment, because I do not need her approval or acceptance to feel good about myself.  So she can scream the most rageful condemnation at me and I can respond with detachment because I am secure in my own love of myself, whether she agrees or not.

* SUPPORT NETWORK: Over the last few years I have built up a great support network of family, friends, and professionals.  This helps me to feel supported and normalizes my experience.  There was several years with my BPD partner when I was very isolated and most of my social interactions were with her.  This was not healthy for me, particularly because she was very skilled at telling me how abnormal and dysfunctional I was.  But now I regularly interact with people who support and accept me for who I am and who do not see me as abnormal or dysfunctional at all.  They don't think I'm perfect, but when they have an issue to raise with me, they do it respectfully and with compassion, not by exploding in a rage, throwing things, going silent for days, ending our relationship on the spot and then acting like that never happened--you know the drill!  Although I am trying to continue to develop my self-love without being dependent on other people's approval, the support network has been huge for me.  It is something I am planning to develop even more once I have fully moved out (although COVID will certainly make that challenging).

I hope this is helpful.  I have found that there is no magic trick to detaching, so be easy on yourself.  If you slip and fall back into an old pattern of "fawning," just notice it and reset your intention and try again.  It has taken me years to get to a point where I feel like I am about 80-90% there, and I continue working on detaching all the time.

I am curious to know what other people have done to achieve detachment success.