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So divorce papers were filed with the court today. My wife still has to be served. Moving forward, though. Thanks for the suggestion to start a thread on the legal board. I will do that at some point. And thanks for the kind words. It's helpful. I probably need to be more kind to myself right now.

I did go over to the house on Saturday to tell her in person that I was filing for divorce. It felt wrong to not have that conversation in person, even with the obvious risks. Her reaction spanned the gamut. First was some begging me not to do it, then some attempted negotiation that we try to make things better for a year and if it didn't work for me then she'd happily get divorced, then some pressure to not do it because we're in a pandemic and she can't possibly get a job and we can't sell the house and she'll be homeless and destitute, then some threats about making the process as high-conflict as possible, then on to how it doesn't matter because she's not going to survive it anyway, then the divorce papers became her "death certificate," then she promised I would never see or speak to her ever again, then it was just screaming and wailing. It was among the hardest conversations I've ever had with her.

Since then, every conversation (phone, text, or email) has been some version of one the above. Usually during the day it is more pleading. Then at night she gets drunk and gets angry, mean, and belligerent. Literally everyone in my life tells me to just stay away, don't engage, turn off the phone, etc. It is just really hard to do that. I don't love her as my wife, but I do care about her a lot. I see a hurt and scared person who can't manage her own life but is trying in the only ways she knows how to hang on to something. And currently what she believes is that everything would be better if I just came back home. She wouldn't drink, she wouldn't be suicidal, she wouldn't rage, we would repair our relationship and all would be well. I don't believe that (and I also don't want that life with her), but it's very hard to watch this person I care about self-destruct while telling me I have the power to keep that from happening.

And in the meantime, her sister (alcoholic cirrhosis, end-stage, hospitalized multiple times in the past year) is now in kidney failure and the hospital has told her parents not to expect her to come home. I don't think that's a reason not to move forward, but it sure doesn't make it an easier right now.

Will you know when she is going to be served?

What is your plan for that day?

Best,

FF

I had the lawyer hold the papers at his office for now, in part because I don't have a plan for that day. She can pick them up herself (she won't do that), or I can have her served at pretty much any time. I guess I partly want her to understand that this is really happening, and right now, I don't get the sense that she gets that. Obviously being served will make that real, but I'd like to feel like she (and I) are better prepared for that happening. My thinking at the moment is to give it until Friday, attempt some more conversations, then have her served next week.

Why not ask her if she would rather get the papers on Thursday or Friday of this week?  Go from there.

Is there anything from your history with her that suggests you will be able to "whisper" her into a better place to get these?  (there may be...I'm really asking..)

Otherwise...I'd say sooner is better.

Best,

FF

Yeah, my plan is to give her until Friday to get them, and if she doesn't, give the go ahead to serve on Monday.

She really hates having things "sprung" on her, and her definition of that is very different from the rest of the world. So I do think having a more concrete timeline, and a few days to process that, will be helpful.

Do you feel like it’s your responsibility to stabilize her?

I ask that because this marks a big change of course and as you’ve observed she’s been all over the map with her responses.

Apparently that has been a role you’ve played before, trying to place the protective padding around her. If so, how can you begin to let that responsibility go, and feel like you’re doing what’s best for both of you?

So...is she going to be served on Monday regardless of what she does/acts out between here and then?

I would find resolve to press forward even if (fill in the blank).

Best,

FF

Yes, I do feel that responsibility, and that has been the central role I have played for a very long time. I naively thought that filing for divorce would change that. Alas, it's not so simple. I don't know how to let that go. At the moment, I think getting out of town might be a good idea. I checked today and I have 14 weeks of vacation built up, so I could definitely take some annual leave. In the longer term, I think letting go of that will be the hardest thing.

Yes. I've told my lawyer that. I guess her sister dying between now and then is the thing that would give me pause.

Hey SC-

I’m sorry you’re facing such a difficult time.  I’m wondering if waiting until Monday may be the way to go, tho’ I may be off with my thinking here.  However if she has a severe reaction, regardless of how you’ve already laid things out for her - psyche units and hospitals may be better (more fully) staffed on a weekday than they would be over the weekend.  Just a thought.

At any rate, as deeply painful and taxing as this step is, you’ve done everything you can to help her and to save your marriage.    You hold no responsibility for her reactions or her emotions.  You understand now that THAT responsibility never did belong to you.  That was a destination that took me years to find. 

Perhaps leaving town may very well be what you need to do to take care of you.  Sometimes it’s hard to know your own needs and feelings when you’ve been laser-focused on an other for so long.

Hugs to you, SC.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

how are things going for you stolencrumbs?    did you get away for some alone time?    was your wife served?    and how is your wife's sister?


you've taken on the role of stabilizing her for a very long time.    it's been a very consuming role.   it seems to me that separating yourself from her legally is one step of breaking this pattern.    it certainly places you in different territory so to speak.

you said that everyone in your life is telling you to turn off your phone, don't engage, stay away.    how does it feel to hear that advice?   what goes through your head when you hear that?   

'ducks

Hi Crumbs

so I haven't read all of your posts.
Did your wife get served.

what a huge wake up call she is going to have.

It takes courage on your part to end the current version of your life together.

I am separated from my s.o., he is diagnosed, untreated bpd.  Reading your early posts reminds me of how our life was. 10 years ago.
When I was way too involved with his day to day...we were in business together.
When I got a job and was not around him 9 hours a day, everything changed.
It was like his dance partner was gone. No one to do that with anymore.

It was better by virtue of not having that tornado in our life...

Now we are separated, we see each other once a week, and we are trying to build a foundation of friendship and trust and build a solid foundation.  I am in 12 step for co dependency which helps more than I can say, working on myself.

It's not my fault--i didn't cause, cure, control BPD.
I am not in the rescuing game.
I pause before taking any action.!  It helps to slow down the crazy making in my head.

When I change, everything in my life changes.

It's a miracle.

Some days are way better than others.

All I say is tomorrow is a new day.
Tomorrow things can be better.

Blessings, strength, hope

juju

I have not served the papers yet. Her sister (who was 36) died on Friday night. It seemed cruel to me to serve divorce papers a few days after that. I incorrectly assumed she would go back home and be with family for at least a few days, but that hasn't happened. I was over at the house with her on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Tuesday. I feel largely guilted into being there. My wife is alone, dealing with the death of her sister, and dealing with the end of her marriage. It was and is hard for me to just leave her there alone. But it also irritates me that she puts this guilt trip on me, complains about being alone in all of this, and then refuses to just go home and be with her family. She is now her dad's only surviving child (she has a brother who committed suicide about 17 years ago). I know he would love to see her. I don't understand why she isn't there.

I told her yesterday that I was just going to spend the evening by myself. That didn't go well. I ended up with many phone calls and many, many emails. Plenty of suicide threats. At one point she shook the bottle of pills into the phone to let me know she was "serious." It's so messed up how normal that kind of thing has become. It's not far away from putting a gun to your head. I was talking to my cousin at some point last night about what was going on and he said, "so it's a normal Wednesday." Yeah, pretty much. I didn't call the police. She wasn't drunk and I have a pretty good idea of how a call to the police goes. She has a well-rehearsed story to tell, and has now added the threat of claiming that I abuse her. She calmed down after a while. I haven't heard from her today. It really messes with my head to live like this and worry about whether she is alive all the time.

I'm not sure how it makes me feel to hear that. I guess my first thought is "y'all don't understand." Then I think that if everyone else is telling me this, maybe I'm the one who doesn't understand. But then they don't really know all the dynamics. They don't really know my wife. And I think, no, y'all are the ones who don't understand. But I also know this has all affected me, and it's very likely I'm not thinking clearly about it. But I'm also stubborn and don't like other people telling me what to do. And I feel like if I do that, it needs to be because I have decided it is the right thing to do, and that I'm not a terrible person if I do that. But I also think that I'm not going to come to that conclusion or see that as long as I am in the middle of all it. And then I think "what is wrong with me? Why can't I stop doing this?" And by the time I work all day and try to think through all of it in bits and pieces, it's 5:00 and it starts all over again. And then I'm either over there trying to keep her from melting down, or I'm being inundated with phone calls and emails. Then I go to bed, wake up, and do it all over again. There is never break.   

I'm so very sorry stolencrumbs.    you have my heartfelt condolences on the loss of your sister in law.   it is a very tragic story.


this is a horrible situation.    terribly terribly difficult.   it probably easier for us all to say don't call, don't engage, don't text because we don't feel the crushing weight of responsibility for some one else's life.    it's a terrible burden to bear.   it's not fair.    it's daily horrible decisions.     there are no good answers.    only equally rotten ones.

I'm really struck by your honesty.     always have been.     

sending you strength and best wishes.

'ducks

It’s true that no one outside of your relationship could possibly understand. But some of us have had similar experiences.

You speak about deciding the right thing to do and not feeling like you’re a terrible person for doing that. I went through thoughts like that when I began my divorce.

My ex husband had frequently threatened suicide, not as often as your wife. For that reason, I made our rifle disappear. I hid it in the woods until I could put it in the trunk of my car and I drove around with it for two weeks before I figured out who I could give it to for safekeeping. (Most of my friends wouldn’t have wanted it in their homes.)

Around that time, the neighbor across the road committed suicide with a rifle. He put it in a vise in his barn, with a string connected to the trigger.

I realized that there were many other ways my ex could commit suicide and that I wouldn’t be able to prevent him doing that if he was determined. And, like you, I asked myself if I was a terrible person for wanting to exit the marriage.

I decided that I had to get out, regardless of what he might do. As far as I know, he is still alive, apparently on the opposite coast, as I occasionally get a phone call from a creditor trying to track him down, even though we’ve been divorced for years.

I was so happy to regain my freedom after so many years of the devastating emotional damage his destructive anger inflicted upon me.

I think one thing that's actually made this all harder for me is that I now have a pretty clear picture of that freedom. A few years ago, I had no conception of a life that included things I wanted and needed. My T considered it a huge breakthrough when I finally said "yeah, I want my own place to live and to not live in my office anymore." I just didn't think about what I wanted at all. But now I have. And I can see the life that I want, but I just can't get there. I feel like a starving a person who can see the fruit on the tree but just can't reach it.

 :hug: :hug:

Did she get served?

Best,

FF

And just a little while ago, she sends me this:

"i do not have a crystal ball and i do not know what the future holds. i am not in denial. but i know what we need to do now.  we need to be good and kind and grab onto each other. we need to be making things better and loving each other and figuring out what the next steps are and supporting each other in that journey. maybe that does mean we end up not together. i don't know.  we need to be working on the house in earnest because it very well may need to be sold. we need quiet and steadiness for a time. we need to remember our goodness, together and we need to try to bring our best selves every day."

She didn't die last night, so that's a relief. But I have no idea what to do with this. Sounds reasonable. Except her idea of what it means to be good and kind and to grab onto each other is that I resume my full time role as caretaker of her emotions. And her idea of quiet and steadiness is me being there 5-7 nights a week and making sure she doesn't have a meltdown. And the idea that we are going to be able to work collaboratively on the divorce is a pipe dream. But this is the new deal she's putting on the table: You can be home most of the time and I won't freak out (as often) and maybe sometime in the future when the pandemic is over and I find a job and you help me move, we can get an amicable divorce. Or you not come over, proceed with the divorce now and prepare to go to DEFCON 1.

No. From a few posts up:

Hi again,

I found it is difficult to go from being intertwined, to being separate.

I think we stumbled on to this.

There are a lot of colors, shades, between black and white.

I'm so sorry this has happened and sorry I missed it in the posts.

 :hug: :hug:

I think you were wise to pause things for a time.

Since she didn't go home...is she going to attend services/funeral?

How are you doing working through these new "facts on the ground"?

Best,

FF

There is no service scheduled at the moment. Her grandmother is probably the person that would most want to be at a service, and she is 85, in not-so-good-health, and lives out-of-state, and so doesn't need to be travelling and attending a funeral with the Covid numbers as they are. So there will be a service at some point, but probably not in the near future.

I don't know what to think about the new facts on the ground, and I don't know what an appropriate time to wait is. I know this is hard for my wife. But I also feel like she is already using her sister's death as another form of manipulation. Last night it was that her "baby sister died five days ago and I can't bring myself to go see her for a few hours. How I must hate her." And again, I know it is hard for her regardless of their relationship, but they were not close. I doubt she has talked to her sister in the last six months or so. I have never heard her call her her "baby sister" before. I understand grief comes out in all kinds of ways, and I don't doubt that my wife's grief is real, but it also feels manipulative.

So I don't know an appropriate time to wait. My wife would like to wait months and "see what happens." I'm not up for that. And in the meantime, she wants to forget that a few weeks ago she was telling people I beat her, involving my family, emailing my SIL's boss, and emailing my boss. I would like to be helpful as she grieves, and I'd like to be supportive throughout all of this. But it feels like we're on different planets. She wants to pretend things are "normal". I want a divorce. 

 :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:


Stolencrumbs

I want to commend you for the work you have done to adjust the way you look at your relationship and your future.  You have come a long way. 

I see lots of clarity in your thinking and analysis.

I see all that you need to know in your own writing. 



What would you think of addressing this head on?

Directly ask her if she will be doing something like going to a service or attending a virtual service or something like that?

Directly address your conundrum with her. 

"I want to support you appropriately in your grief and also move us forward as our relationship is changing." 

If she is going to do something in the next week or so, then delay seems appropriate and compassionate. 

Longer than that (to me) seems manipulative, especially if there are no details about moving forward with ceremonies or grief.

Best,

FF

did you reply to her message stolencrumbs?  the one about the crystal ball and bringing your best selves?   you've gotten messages like this before I know.   it seems like from what I read that these messages are temporary and transient. and it's not long before the messages switches to:

     

honestly SC, both messages feel very manipulative to me.    one is the flip side of the coin from the other.   both are aiming to get you to do something that would be ~good~ for her at your expense.    Neither message recognize you as anything but an object to provide for her needs.   that's pretty sad.

I think it's painfully obvious that your wife is at a higher risk for suicide just considering her family history.   Her brother and now her younger sister who basically suicided through alcohol.     the risk is stark and real and immediate.

what is less clear to me is are you helping your wife stabilize or prolonging the dysregulation?   maybe a little of both?   your wife has threatened suicide almost daily for the last ... I think few years?     she has made several serious attempts and a whole lot of posturing.    and yet the same conversation happens over and over again and again.   as you said... it never stops.    she uses you as a whipping boy,   you are there 5-7 nights a week and making sure she doesn't have a meltdown.   and there is no opportunity for change and no opportunity for improvement.   the same thing happens over and over.

the question that keeps coming up in the back of my head is what is the merciful thing to do ?    are you really stabilizing her?    is this stable behavior?       you have prevented the house from being burnt down by taking the matches away or calling the police...no one can doubt the effort you have made to offer support, to offer help, to intervene in productive ways,     but is it really helping or is it enabling the same thing to happen tomorrow night?   I honestly can't tell.   and I don't really think it matters what I think.   it matters what you think.   it matters what you believe.     

I'm still wondering what is the merciful thing to do?   is it merciful to allow this pattern to continue,... to assume the role of caretaker since she is obviously so badly ill?   will protecting her, being her caretaker keep her alive longer?    is it merciful to allow these intense conversations to happen night after night with no hope for a shared resolution?  would it be merciful to set firm boundaries that might protect you while endangering her?   

I wish I had some really good answers for you.   I wish we all had that crystal ball.    what does seem likely is that doing the same thing  is going to get you the same results.   more barrages of text and email... more threats... more pills rattled in your ear.    if the change is going to come it will have to come from you and there is no guarantee how it will unfold.   that is tough stuff.     I hope you continue to make progress...

respectfully
'ducks

No, I did not reply. I no longer engage the email and text conversations. By the evening, she was drunk and belligerent again. It cycles pretty quickly. It's always a little jarring to be screamed at that we need to choose goodness and kindness, and to follow that up with a guarantee that she will leave that house in a body bag. That doesn't seem to be good and kind to me. But that's the pattern. 
     

Yes, they both do feel like that. Last night seemed even more manipulative. Lots of comments about her sister's body not even being cremated yet. Yet her focus was on me and us, not on her sister. It felt like it was just another stick to use.


I ask myself those questions a lot. I think I believe that I'm doing a bit of both. Though, increasingly, I don't know that I'm stabilizing anything. I think if I moved back home, that would stabilize things for her some, for some period of time. But that's not something I am going to do. The current situation seems more like just prolonging the dysregulation, or delaying whatever is ultimately going to happen. For a long time I felt like that was okay. I could prolong things and give her time to find other forms of support, seek help, make plans, etc. But none of that happened. Her solution was and is for me to come home, and there is no alternative, in her mind, or at least what she tells me, to that except her dying. So I now don't know why I am prolonging anything, except out of fear of what she might do to herself or to me. And it's not stabilizing things in any sustainable way. It is just making it to the next day to do the same thing again, and that keeps us both stuck in this awful pattern.   


This is the hard one. I think it would be the merciful thing to do. I think it is what needs to happen for me, but also, ultimately, for her. But that sure is hard when someone you care about is telling you that their life depends on you not doing that.   


Yep. The evidence is in that doing the same thing will get the same results. I don't think my wife even disagrees with that. She just thinks the change that needs to happen is that I need to come back home. She seems to have no awareness of the alternative--that I actually set boundaries. She seems to think that I have to keep playing the same role, and have to keep taking all the calls and reading all the texts and emails, and spending hours a night on most nights dealing with a meltdown. And I suppose she has good reason to think that's what will keep happening, because I've never not done that. But I do think setting boundaries and protecting myself from that is what I need to do. And yes, that has to come from me.

I appreciate your input, 'ducks, and I appreciate the recognition that this is tough stuff. That's the part that people in my life don't seem to grasp, and that's frustrating.

Thanks, ff. It is really helpful to hear that it at least appears that I have come a long way, and in a positive direction. My wife obviously disagrees with that, and that is the feedback I hear most often. She often says to me that she doesn't know who I am now, and that she just wants "me" back. And she's right that I have changed over the last few years. I just don't agree with her that the change has been bad. I feel like a lot of what she does is trying to get me to revert to some version of how I operated before I had much awareness of what was going on and what my role in all of it was.

I have asked her directly, and I get no clear answer. The last time I asked if she had plans to go see her family, she told me I was just trying to get rid of her. So I don't think I'm going to get an answer on this, and that makes me think I just need to proceed in what I think is a reasonable time and at reasonable pace.

You’re no longer willing to play the same part in her dysfunctional drama, and that’s a good thing.

I imagine that if the gender roles were reversed, it would be much more obvious how abusive her role is.

I hate to say this as a woman, and as someone who lived with an abusive husband for years, but your wife has traded on her gender to get a pass for very abusive behavior for many years. She’s played the sympathy card in a way that wouldn’t be available if she was a man.

How did you feel typing your answer above?

Best,

FF

I don't know. Guilty. Scared. Sad. Anxious. I'm convinced that it's right. I'm unsure about actually acting on it. I feel relief that I'm not that conflicted about the answer. Then cycle back through anxiety, guilt, feer, sadness.

You can know that something is the right action, while still
 Dreading how bad it's going to feel of how difficult it's going to be to get to the other side.

Can you try a different way of looking at it? This is called a time shift -- looking at a topic from a different point in time.

If you were ten years in the future, looking back on your marriage, your wife's mental illness and resulting behaviors and actions, and the decisions and actions you took...what would you want to be able to say?

I might be totally wrong but it feels like what we are discussing here and what we have been discussing is ... Am I My Brothers Keeper?    and like any deep question, the answer is equally, Yes, No, It Depends, Sometimes and Never.

I know you want to be helpful to your wife as she grieves the loss of her sister but I think it's equally fair to ask ... is she grieving?   and how can you best be helpful?    where does the helping logically start?    and where does it logically end?   my two cents is,  at the end of the day the grief is hers.   she can bear it or not, that's hers.     you can not bear it for her.    no matter how hard you try or how well intentioned your attempts are.

she has been telling you for a long time her life depends on what you do or don't do.    there is no guarantee that she won't attempt to end her life,  there is no guarantee that she will.   as harsh and as cold as it sounds that is also up to her.   you can't protect her from that.    serving her with the divorce papers will hurt her.   there is no way to avoid that.    just like you getting an apartment hurt her.   what I see is the hurt you are both living through now never ends.   she tells you to come back or she will die,... you agonize over how to protect her and save her and the same hurt happens day after day.    the hurt over the divorce and you moving on with your life, will end one day if she can survive it.    ultimately that is up to her.   you can't make that decision for her.     you can't protect her from it.

it seems to me there is no way forward in which you are 'the nice guy'.     you can't be both the helpful supportive gentle kind guy and the guy who gets a divorce and separates from the dysfunction.    


Guilt is hard to let go of.  Its hard for us to say,  I've done enough.   I am enough.    what would make you comfortable (or more comfortable) that you have done enough.  how can you be more sure about acting on your convictions?

I would think you are going to have conflicted swirling emotions.  that's natural and normal.   it will take time for them to settle.  being sad and anxious is going to be part of this moving forward just as it has been part of this for every text message and email and phone call.      the only way out is through...  the only way out of the guilt, anxiety, sadness is to look them in the eye and walk through them.

respectfully
'ducks

This is incredibly hard, stolencrumbs. I think if it were not for the fact that she is high risk for actually attempting/completing a suicide, you would be able to proceed with detaching and protecting yourself much more easily. There would still be feelings of guilt and sadness and you would still have to move through the stages of grief for the relationship that you once wished for or hoped you could have had. But, knowing as you do, that she has made attempts, and you have found the physical evidence of a suicide plan before, and with her family history of suicide and mental illness, that knowledge is keeping you stuck on the precipice of a decision that will impact the rest of your life.

'ducks hit on something here: the question of "am I my brother's keeper?" and the complex answers that come with that. Your wife is responsible for her own life and her own choices. But she is placing that responsibility on you: "I refuse to do anything to take care of my own mental health other than to demand that you come and take care of it for me; one thing and one thing only will keep me from killing myself and that is to have you back here soothing my feelings 24/7". You are being held hostage by her suicidal threats, and the fact that choosing to protect yourself may carry the lasting burden of guilt should she actually end her life is exactly what makes this threat such an effective tool. It's a form of psychological and emotional abuse, and it's coercive control.

She knows on some level you still care about her and she is using that to the most extreme measure possible to force you to not end the relationship. She's giving you two choices based in black/white thinking: either you're her savior, or you're her killer. The truth is that you are neither of those.

What kind of support or resources do you have for yourself right now? how often are you able to see your therapist? Are there any colleagues that may be experienced in situations like this (psychology professors, clinical social work professors)?

I know it's tough SC. I watched this type of dynamic in my parents. We were all enlisted as BPD mother's emotional and to some extent physical caretakers, but even more so, we were not allowed to say no to her, it was her way, her will, all the time.

I think I am redeemed made a good point with the choice she has given you: you are either her savior or the cause of her demise. But neither of them takes into account her own responsibility. She's an adult and she is responsible for her actions ultimately.

My guess is that the struggle is with you. I know for me, having boundaries with my BPD mother means that she frames me as the bad person and also I don't live up to my ideals for how I wanted to be in a relationship with my parents. Like many of us here, you seem to be a good person who wants to live up to ethical standards. But it's different when that person is abusive and manipulative and doesn't learn from their behavior because their thinking is in victim position and everything is not their fault. The struggle is knowing that choosing your own sanity and well being is going to somehow cause them to feel hurt- but it's their dysfunction that sets this up. Somehow we buy into this but then fail to extend our own goodness to ourselves.

I think you are also dreading the response that is to come. But part of that is that her behavior has always resulted in her getting what she wants. You know it will escalate- and it's going to take some strenght and resolve on your part to get through it. When my BPD mother acts waify- it's just awful. How can I do this to my own mother? But I also know that it's a manipulation. I wish you stregnth as you navigate your own needs in this situation.

I have been where you are now, and while I can't promise that the process itself gets easier (you wouldn't believe how much time can be wasted if she just falsely claims that actually the paperwork is wrong and she filed for divorce from you because you are her and she is you and she thinks maybe there's something mentally wrong with you) - I just want to reassure you that you're almost certainly doing the right thing. In my case it's doubly ironic because we only got married because after years of stalking me and sabotaging other relationships I sought, she informed me she was terminally ill and just needed this one favour before she died...so apparently the marriage certificate and divorce certificate were both going to be death certificates. Sigh.

The best advice I can offer is that while she tells you that you have the power to fix all this pain and tumult - face it man, you don't. That's just part of her over-idealizing you and believing you are a deity (when you're not a devil). If you had the power to "fix this problem" then you would've already done it years ago, right?

I got involved through youthful naive arrogance, "Oh sure they SAY nobody can cure BPD - but I'll find a way, my unique blend of emotional support, self-discipline and compromise will overcome all odds" and it was a humbling but liberating realisation years later that no, no I cannot fix it. Sometimes a thing gets broke, can't be fixed - and that's her, that's BPD. As decades pass, often they'll lack the energy to throw bricks at your head or lose interest in phoning your few remaining friends to stir drama and the overly-dramatic suicide attempts decrease (though real ones I believe remain), but the problem doesn't go away - that's not just medical opinion, sadly it in indeed medical fact.

It was an annoyance to me to hear a judge listen to the facts of the case (and deciding entirely in my favour) state that it damaged my credibility in his eyes that I explained that even after her attempted murder and insane accusations, I did not hate her or wish her any harm, because to his simple mind it wasn't possible for someone in our shoes to care about somebody who does what they do - but that's life with severe mental illness, and while the world gushes over how brave and deserving of applause and benefits the SICK are, they rarely remember the heroes who are actually carrying them. But the deeds will not be any less valiant because they go un-praised.

Rushing back into that inferno would be your own version of self-harm, keep your distance, keep firm - you've done what good you can for her in life, it's time to walk away. There's a short-term X% chance she'll self-destruct over the coming months, but you have to measure that against the long-term Y% chance every year she'll self-destruct anyways (taking you and possibly children, friends or others with her) even if you did return, simply from the fact she once again has the same stimulation she had when these problems were at their peak anyways...you.

(And look at me, barely projecting at all!)

Pearls Before Swine made a good point- this thinking "I am the one who can fix this" - sure- others couldn't but somehow I can. There's a bit of ego in this, maybe some narcisism or arrogance- but it's on the line of thinking I'm somehow more capable. We discuss the reasons for "victim perspective" ( the role I think pwBPD tend to take on) but not as much the "rescuer" role and why this is appealing in some ways- and can even be the "sticking point" for a relationship.

Maybe there's some help in understanding this role and why it's hard to give it up. I recognize my own tendencies to take this on in a relationship- and where they came from- I was raised to be an emotional caretaker and helper with BPD mom and this was a a way to get positive attention. But to have the "one up" status of the rescuer, there has to be someone to rescue.

While it may feel like the "merciful" thing to do- be an emotional caretaker for a disordered person, it's also what can stop them from seeking help and stunt emotional growth. I can understand why the fear of my mother's possible break downs and self harm attempts led to all of us trying to keep her as emotionally stable as possible - was it really in her best interests or was it to manage our own fears? Maybe it's a combination of both.

SG whatever you decide to do, I think it's important to identify why you are in this relationship and what it is about you that keeps you in this pattern with her,

I here you in the “cycling” through emotions.
  I’m sure every divorce situation is somewhat different though somewhat the same.
  Took me two times to finally serve papers. Agonized over it.
  Then wife just signed em. And looks like it may  go to “default” divorce. No contact with her except for once a month to pay health insurance premium.
  I assume she is ok. She texts our daughter occasionally and seems to be traveling to all the party spots. (Vegas, Miami).
  Head scratcher since we never had money to pay the bills for twenty years. So she is fine it seems.
Now I just have to get myself “righted”.
  Thank you everyone for your advice. I the only thing I can say is “today” is better for me so it’s possible for you also as time passes.

how are you doing stolencrumbs?    how are things going?

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