BPDFamily.com

Hi all,

My divorce process from soon to be ex BPDh is at a point where we had a mediation meeting this week. Turned out in the meeting that my ex actually now offers me to have sole custody of the kids (younger son turned just 4 and older is 11). Given his often irresponsible behavior with the kids and at times pretty extreme BPD behavior, getting sole custody was what I was aiming at. If this really happens (papers not done yet) I will be so relieved! But I don't fully trust this yet.

In other areas, money is still a major issue. He still thinks that I should be the one paying pretty much everything (”kids will be just fine with your money”) and in his opinion it would be wrong if he should have to pay child support. However, he seems to be pretty afraid of going to court so I have some hope that we could reach a reasonable agreement.

He did not want more time with the boys when this was asked, just every other weekend. And some of those weekends he chooses to rather hang out with his friends to go play gigs. I was pretty clear that the boys will then just stay at home because alternatives are that they are either with a baby sitter at a random hotel room (not really getting any attention from dad) or among heavy drinking adults, which is not a healthy environment for kids. (But we’ll see what happens with the pandemic, if it’s safe to arrange any gigs in the first place. Feels kind of crazy because of social distancing in other areas of life…)   

Long story short, meeting lasted two hours and during that time we heard him being the victim of all victims, dad of the year, him pointing out how special he is (rules don’t apply to him), a lot of blaming, some raging even, and how his friends and family all see what a bad person I am. With bright eyes he said he does not have any mental health issues (diagnosed BPD…), I am his only problem. He also lied that I have hit him and attacked him, which is a total and complete lie. He has been physically violent, so I am thinking maybe this is some kind of projecting, makes it easier for him to justify his own behavior if he claims I have hit him?   

Seeing him acting that way made me both angry and sad at the same time, and staying as calm as I could (unfortunately was not 100% successful in this, especially when he accused me of violence) took all my energy and strength. Afterwards, I felt sick to my stomach and got a major headache - I guess just a physical reaction to the stress. The intensity of feelings, blaming, anger and lies are really consuming!

I’ve been recently reading books on healing recommended by other members here and come to realize that many of the behaviors exhibited by my ex could be seen as signs of NPD. One book listed 30 signs of narcissistic abuse and I could easily check 25 out of those signs. It again opened my eyes to what I am dealing with here and how important it is that my kids don’t have to live in that kind of family dynamics every day.

Anyhow, if you made it this far, thanks for reading - I guess I needed to share in a safe place. (And I am not a native English speaker, so hopefully my text is readable :) )

And if you are in the middle of divorce, I wish you strength, you are not alone  :hug:!

Your post was very clear. It sounds like mediation went reasonably well, all things considered. My attorney used to say to never get discouraged over just a little progress because little drops make a waterfall. I've heard of people going to mediation and being physically ill for hours afterwards to the point of not being able to eat or sleep, so it's tough all-around. Sometimes you have to ignore all the crazy thinking and just focus on the legal part. I don't know how divorce lawyers handle all the drama day-after-day and leave it at the office after they go home, but mine considered it a calling. He retired the day after mine was final and gave up his license. He said that over four decades was enough.

Yes, NPD and BPD often go together, particularly on the malignant side of the scale. Margalis Fjelstad groups them together in some of her materials because the effects are often the same for the partners. A therapist friend of mine (not my therapist) prefers to call both categories "malignant denial" because they reflect thinking that defines their own reality apart from all evidence to the contrary.

That was good progress for a first mediation.

If being in the same room for the mediation is too difficult, you might ask for the next one that you and your STBX are in separate rooms, with the mediator going back and forth between rooms. That would keep you from hearing accusations and projections such as the physical abuse. Believe me, the mediator takes a lot of what is said but not proved with skepticism.

Your state should have guidelines regarding child dupport. Do NOT gift away his obligation to support his children.

Hi MeandThee29,

You're right, better focus on the drops. And hope that papers will be signed before he changes his mind about the custody. I remind myself that this consuming crazy behavior was our reality and daily life before separation, and we are taking steps into the right direction now. I can well relate to people not being able to sleep or eat after these meetings, it is heavy  :(  And while dealing with the craziness I realized I feel a lot of sadness about what kind of relationship will the kids have with their dad, because he does not seem to care that much or be able to see things from their perspective. But better focus on going forward with the legal side, and do my best as a parent.  

Malignant denial is so well said, that is exactly what it is  :( And thank you for mentioning Margalis Fjelstad, I had not read her books yet but will do so!

Hi GaGrl,


That's actually a very good option to be in separate rooms. It is heavy to listen to the accusations and projections and try to keep calm.  And child support is something I will not gift away, the kids have a right to it, this is something I feel strongly about. They have suffered enough already. And he can afford it, it's just that he does not want to pay  :(

Thanks for the support!

I'd also say that is a very good start at mediation, hopefully nothing changes.  I'd recommend that your lawyer pushes hard for those papers to get signed.  When we did mediation, my lawyer was very proactive and once we had a deal he was not content with leaving the mediation without signatures.  Also a great idea to have separate rooms, we did that and I wouldn't have it any other way.  No drama, just my lawyer and I discussing things while the mediator went back and forth.

Speaking of surprises at mediation, mine was definitely interesting.  The 6 weeks leading up to mediation were a S-show: attempts at keeping the kids from me, attempts at restraining orders, and accusations of everything under the sun while exPDw and her lawyer stonewalled any constructive conversations.  We get to mediation, and the first thing that happens is the mediator walks in with a prepared parenting plan from ex's lawyer that is 90% what I wanted anyway.  The mediator looked at us like we were the problem, and asked my lawyer "what have you guys been doing?" (they knew each other).  My lawyer explained what had been happening up to then, and the mediator quickly got it.  Some fine tuning on the parenting plan and it was signed.  Then, the mediator told us my exPDw wanted us to start the negotiations on the separation (financial) agreement.  We came up with something fair, with a few nuggets that I could give up in order to negotiate.  And then, guess what?  The other side just accepted it.  I went from thinking that PREs and CEs would be involved over a two year divorce to having a completely settled agreement within 5 hours.

As things were winding down in the mediation, I told my lawyer "damn, I need a beer".  He laughed and said that most of his clients start drinking after they leave mediation, either due to frustration or happiness.  On the way out, after the separation agreement was signed, we joked about which type of beer I should start with.  (we're both craft beer fans)  I'll never forget, he suggested a Sculpin Grapefruit IPA.  I ended up buying a nice sour bomber at the liquor store, and sipped on that while I texted my friends and family the great news that it was all settled.

I am a state-registered mediator. I have only practiced mediation in corporate situations (40 year career in corporate HR). I never have my parties in the same room. I always move between private conference rooms and I handle one priority topic at a time.

It takes a bit longer but is more efficient and effective.

I can totally relate! I also got some heavy raging via loads of WA messages roughly a week and a half before the mediation meeting. Raging about how he thinks that I think he is the worse dad and "straight from the devil", and plenty of more pretty messed up stuff. And then also some communications as if everything would be really great between us. At this point I told him (firmly but kindly) that I blocked him from WA and if there is anything urgent about the kids, he can call or SMS and if not urgent, send an email.

Lots of angry emails followed immediately and he drove to our house that evening, but luckily we were not home (kids and I were visiting my mum). I don't know what would've happened if we had been home then. Good thing we weren't and he ended up leaving only a letter to the boys. But I igot a bit worried and we're changing the locks at the house soon. 

But your story gives me hope, and I am happy that the mediation turned out well for you! It's no wonder that you can even remember the drink you had that day  :) It must have been a huge relief!

I've also been preparing for a long fight, but right now looks like his fear of going to court is so strong that mediation could be enough. Let's see.

GaGrl, no wonder you have good advice :hug: ! My only worry is that because he can be so charming and convincing, that the mediator might believe his accusations and projections. But on the other hand, probably this first meeting was enough for her to see behind the false accusations.   

My exPDw did a lot of the same.  After the mediation, we just needed the judge to sign off on everything.  That deadline passed with no word from the other side (we needed them to finalize one document), then her lawyer reached out with a letter written to me by exPDw asking to get back together.  I responded through my lawyer that I wasn't interested in reconciling, and wanted a divorce.  Then, another request to just have it be a separation.  exPDw had already created a financial mess for me to deal with, so I wanted nothing but to untie my legal bonds to her and I again said I wanted a divorce, no other option.  They had no choice at this point but to let the judge sign and make it official.

After it was final, we met at a bank one day to settle up an account.  She told me in the parking lot that she "wasn't giving up" on our family.  She had been acting very sweet, calling me by a pet name and all that.  I saw through it all, and couldn't forget how poorly she had treated me.  I held my ground, and not long after, she painted me as evil and treated me like dirt again just like I knew she would. 

The point of all that is I recommend you be ready for all sorts of "off" behavior, and that it may cycle back and forth.  One week they accuse you of everything imaginable, the next week they want you back.  It makes no sense.  Just stay strong and know what you want, and accept nothing less.

I also recommend keeping all communication in writing.  Right after I filed, I made it clear to exPDw that I would only communicate in writing.  Whenever we had a verbal conversation she was extremely manipulative, but if it was in writing she knew others could see it and behaved better.  Written communication also creates space so you can think about how to respond.  Nowadays, I get a written request from her and I can think for a day or two about what her motives are and how to respond to her.

I can undersand how you must have felt. Just reading it is enough to make me feel it in my stomach since I'll likely be doing the same this fall, after months of delays...   

Does your L suggest (or prefer) that you do mediation in person?

Bill Eddy of www.highconflictinstitute.com has some materials on mediation when one party has NPD traits.

I believe he recommends praise and compliments for pwNPD as that helps with emotion regulation, which makes problem-solving more successful.

"it's impressive that you can prioritize your music career and offer this good visitation schedule -- the kids are going to appreciate your generosity."

Glad you got through this round.  |iiii

Hi all,

it's been an interesting week as I've started in a new job and it's been pretty interesting during these corona times (meeting people & learning pretty much online). Lot to learn so I've been pretty exhausted in the evenings and have not had much energy to deal with other than normal family routines with the kids. But I trust this will get easier over time, the new job and community seem to be very nice :)

Thank you defogging for good advice on what to expect. I can see already that the behavior cycles back and forth even without any "input" from me :/ And better keep contact in writing. I've already told him that he should call only in case there is anything serious/urgent regarding the kids. The more I get distance and the less there is communication, the better I feel.

Hi mart555  :hug:, I am really sorry you are in the same situation. But please know, that in time it will get easier and you are not alone. Please feel free to share your thoughts and feelings here.This community has helped so much in making through tough times and the advice and support other members can give are so important and insightful. This is a safe place where people really get what you've gone through in your relationship.

Hi livednlearned, at the moment prefers that I would do mediation in person. Thank you very much for the link; I will study the materials and give it some thought still. I bet praise and compliments my ex would very much like, not sure though how credible I would look or sound like  :(

Thank you everyone for support and sharing your experiences, I can't express well enough how much I appreciate it!
 

And an update on where we are at the moment. No good surprises this time. The latest mediation meeting took place and this time my ex came to the meeting really angry, full of hate, really. He is not going to give me custody and willing to pay only 1/3 of what he should. He stormed out of the room way before the meeting was supposed to end. Very heavy experience and I decided I am done with mediation, court it is. I know I should've been mentally better prepared for this kind of turn, but I was not, not well enough at least.

This time I was also strongly accused of alienating kids from their grandparents. According to my ex, grandparents from his side are afraid to send even birthday presents to the kids! My jaw dropped here. Like what the  :cursing:, all this drama happens behind my back that I am totally unaware of until a mediation meeting takes place. There has been no contact from grandparents other than a birthday card to S4, which I read and gave to him.   

Also some strange behavior, like him sending me an empty email the night before mediation and claimed that he sent me a proposal regarding the kids. No text in the email. Absolutely nothing. Previously he also sent me an email saying he had called the night before, but my phone had no calls registered from him that evening. Anyone else experienced this kind of behavior, I mean what is this, is it only intended to make me think I am going crazy?

A couple of days earlier he sent me an email saying I should ask him to give me money to each invoice separately instead of child support. And that if he needs to take care of the kids other than during his weekends, I should let him stay the night at my place. Well, absolutely no to both of these.   

I am also changing my lawyer to someone who seems to be more familiar with high conflict cases. Too bad the earliest time she has for appointment is in September.

Trying to stay optimistic while really disappointed and exhausted. One day this will be behind me and the kids. 

Ugh, yeah, it would've been so much better if he could've held it together in mediation and you guys could've been done. He probably can't and won't see that it's his dysregulation and rage that are contributing to the road to court.


Lots of projection going on ("it's YOU that's doing the alienating") -- so maybe gratefully accept the gift of him "showing his hand" that he may try, or is trying, some alienation tactics on the kids.

And yes, it is "according to your ex". Funny how simple "slice through it" solutions are rejected or not considered -- I mean, if his parents are "so scared" of sending stuff to the kids at your place... duh, they can send it to HIM to share with the kids when the kids are with him. Problem solved! But you see that he isn't interested in problem solving. He's interested in blame and perpetuating problems.


Does he make these claims about what he "actually" did verbally? Or in email/text? IDK what his "goal" is, if any, but if he has one, it's likely to be irrational and not something a "normal" person like you can wrap your head around. You can, if you want, focus on just collecting the texts/emails and documenting these weird claims. Maybe the board can chime in on this, but you could think about if, when he says "I emailed you blah, blah, blah last night", you want to do a one-line response for documentation, like "That did not happen". I'm tempted to lean to the other side -- just don't engage with any of his claims -- but we're also in a different place in coparenting than you are at the moment. So, board, thoughts?


Wow... wow wow wow. I hope you are able to laugh, even for a moment, about these? Amazing all these things you "should" be doing!


Good for you! You have an excellent handle on reality.


Good for you also for recognizing what you need and being proactive. Yes, it'll take a little time, though I think it's a case of "discomfort now for payoff later". Good to recognize now versus later that this will be high conflict. Sad it is, but true.


I read that you're recognizing what's real about the situation -- that it's high conflict. That you're rejecting his pressure and irrational suggestions. That you're being thoughtful about asking what's helpful to do. That you're willing to put up with uncertainty now for success down the road. Give yourself some kudos for these steps.

Kells, first, thank you so much for support and encouragement, much needed and appreciated  :hug:


I also believe he can't see it. He mixes feelings with facts and feels his rage is justified. It seems to be his "truth" that he fully believes. Very frustrating, and sad as well.   


Exactly, that is so well said - he is indeed interested in blame and perpetuating problems - constant drama instead of (often simple) solutions! I also asked why would his parents not send the gifts to my ex if they see me as a problem. Well, more rage followed but no reason why that could not be done  :(


It's both, first it was written regarding the call that never came, and then verbally in mediation regarding the email that in reality had nothing in it. I know I should not give this time or energy, but it puzzles me.


Isn't it! Already doing almost everything by myself and yet I keep getting these demands. On a good day I do manage to laugh a little at the craziness of all this  :( [/quote]


Thanks Kells again for your support  :hug: I am working on accepting the reality of the situation, and feel that it is high time that I get best possible legal help before I reach some sort of burn out due to this stress. There will be no mature agreeing or discussion on things no matter how much I hope, want or ask for it, so better just let lawyers handle this.   

Oh, and I forgot to mention he said if we go to court he will ruin my reputation publicly. With what remains a mystery because he has been the one doing things I would not want anyone to learn about if I were him  :( 

And this is why mediation with a pwBPD often fails to move to completion. I'm so sorry...It sure would have been good to wrap it up cleanly.

My thoughts on documenting the non-receipt on email attachments or supposed phone calls would be to have several firm statements ready:

 "I sent you an email with a proposal."
 "I received a blank email on (date) with no attachment."

 "I phoned you on (date) regarding..."
 "My phone and voicemail record shows no calls from your number. "I

Then move on.

So yes, time for a lawyer able to handle a high-conflict situation. However, much as he was ants to threaten things like "destroy your reputation in court," these divorce actions rarely make it to court. A good lawyer will work with his lawyer to come to a settlement - - you won't be having your STBX in a room without your lawyer, so that stress will be alleviated, and his lawyer should be helping him face the reality of state guidelines and how child support is paid (and it's not invoice by invoice -- what a fantasy he has that he can create his own payment method).

My DH's divorce from his ex (uBPD/NPD) went on far too long. Only when he finally admitted he could not negotiate with her and said, "Fine -- I'll have my lawyer get a court date," did she agree and settle.

Hi GaGrl, thank you, very good statements which I will use if this kind of behavior continues. I have a feeling that it likely will.

And regarding court and reputation, I think my ex has this idea that going to court would be like something you see on tv. He has previously had these delusions or fantasies about social workers and mediation that officials will punish me and let me know what a bad person I am  :(

I really hope lawyers will be able to work this out and we never have to go to court.

He's likely going to continue to spew this kind of nonsense at you.  That's what hardest for me - h's ex is SO CONVINCED that she's right and we're awful people, and she tells us that SO OFTEN that it makes me second guess myself.  My therapist has been really good at yanking me back to reality so I don't get too anxious about those predictions.  Be prepared for that.

Also be prepared for him to lie.  If he's plotting to "ruin your reputation" he may bring up all kinds of false stuff - from the "alienation" of grandparents to allegations that you've harmed the kids or are trying to harm him.  Keep documentation on his threats - it will help professionals see the patterns.

He's gaslighting you.  Watch the movie Gaslight.  There's the British version in 1940 but I think the Hollywood version in 1944 is better.

Whether he knows he's doing it doesn't matter, that's how it is turning out.

Most of us too found that mediation early in the separation or divorce failed miserably.  The stbEx is just too entitled or controlling at this early stage.  Maybe later nearer the end of the case.  Surprisingly, many of us did reach an eventual settlement though it was a long ordeal to get there.

Hi WorriedStepmom, I can totally relate, it is hard! The second guessing is terrible, even when you know on an intellectual level that any of the stuff is not true  :(

And ForeverDad, thanks! I read about gaslighting after your post and it is just that, somehow helps to have a name to this behavior! This is also not the first time these kinds of things have happened. I remember similar odd incidents from times when he has been acting like he is in a manic state. I have no idea if he knows he is doing it or not, but for somebody to do this intentionally gives me the creeps. I'll have to look at the movie at some point, too.

Hoping to reach a settlement at some point, but let's see.

My attorney had a specialty in high conflict divorce and was very even-tempered and collaborative. Nothing seemed to phase him. Mine would call his on the phone and smooth things out when they flared. He was the key.

Settlement was stalled way down in the weeds for several weeks on what we thought was the last issue over a trivial amount, and we decided to give them a deadline to sign or we'd get a court date set. My attorney told me that his gut was that the threat was all we needed. If you do set a date, it's always 4-5 months down the road here, so plenty of time to potentially settle before. His attorney exercised what mine called "considerable charm" and convinced him to sign.

Everything took much longer and was much more expensive than it should have been, but it settled out of court.

Hi, thanks for sharing! The financial side is definitely one major worry of mine and also therefore hoping this would be over asap but better prepare for a long road as well as I can. That said, my gut feeling is that while my ex is playing tough right now, he is deep down afraid of actually going to court and hates the thought of paying a lawyer.

Mediation is stressful, and people with BPD don't handle stress well. The reality setting in of loss is probably being defended in his psyche to a degree that is stretching his limits.








All of this sounds very dysregulated and I wonder if it could be signs of psychosis. Whenever my ex behaved in ways that made no sense, my therapist suspected psychosis, which she described as a severe distortion in perception as opposed to a clear break with reality.

The underpinnings of n/BPDx's psychosis had likely been there simmering just under the surface when we were together. It would come into view during times of intense stress for him, usually triggered by stuff with family members or aggravated work relationships. It sometimes looked like paranoia but there was also an element of exaggerated personality, if that makes sense. People seemed to know something was off but it usually amounted to discomfort on their part and not much beyond that.

The takeaway for me learning about psychosis was a sort of detachment. And maybe an affirmation that n/BPDx was beyond any kind of help I could offer.

I just put my nose down and plugged away at the custody battle one step at a time, trying to ignore the distractions that sprung up daily as ex dysregulated more and more severely. The most severe psychotic break was so bizarre it's hard to put into words from my perspective. I suspect the perceptions he concocted in his head are still believable to him, but the next day he seemed to understand that he pushed something too far even though he took no responsibility.

I guess I'm saying all this because your ex is not well and you'll see some bizarre stuff during this period while you begin to get better and see more clearly how traumatized and traumatizing he is. When things settle down he will probably level out a bit and while he won't ever be easy to deal with, it most likely won't be to this degree. My ex had dysregulations after we divorced but it was usually triggered by something else in his life and while it wasn't great being in the line of fire, I also knew it wasn't about me and had some skills by then to deflect whatever came my way.

I'm glad you have a place to share what you're going through  :hug:

Hi  :hug:! Your post really got me thinking and gave me new perspective, thank you! How you describe what happened with your ex sounds so similar to my experiences it is amazing!

Thinking of all the bizarre stuff, psychosis or psychotic symptoms at least, would make a lot of  sense. The look on his face was also something that is really hard to describe, he was angry and hateful but I don't know a better way to say it other than he looked like his rational mind just could not be reached. Don't know if that makes any sense or do I sound like the crazy one :(

Some part of me still feels sad that he is in that state, but I know by now there is nothing I can do about it. So I try to just deal with the feelings and let them go. You put it so well, he is also beyond my help.

I am really grateful for this group and the support and help in dealing with the situation, so my warmest thanks to everyone who have given their time and thoughts  :hug:. A lot of eye opening experiences and thoughts that are so helpful in coping with all of this. Learning something new every time I come to this forum, and all of it helps me better accept the reality bit by bit while it is still quite hard and consuming. But trying to take everything day by day. And one thing that is so important to me is that the kids seem to be doing good and are balanced and express all normal feelings including joy.

Yes, I hear you. I have some savings, but actually paid 1/4 of my income the first year on the retainer. I kept telling myself that it was investment in my future, but I didn't have to put in more money until after the divorce was final, and then more for closeout. My attorney was less expensive than the one my ex chose, but still pricey to me. But he was very fast with reviewing documents and writing letters, and delegated the agreement and other documents to an associate who later did my closeout. He was also the managing partner and sole owner of the firm and wrote off certain things when he felt like it (LOL). 

His attorney had hinted with my attorney that he didn't want to go to court with my ex, so we had that consideration as well. So it was a measured risk.

A friend of mine had a long fight for her children that she eventually had to give up on (she completely lost custody). She spent over ten years paying off the bills. So hard!

Sounds like your lawyer is a true gem! Hearing your story gives me hope as well. I am so hoping this new lawyer of mine will be a good one and I’ll just have to find a way to deal with the finances as they come. Selling our home is an option, but let’s see how things go.

I am so sorry to hear about how it went for your friend. It must be so tough and heartbreaking. One has to be a really strong person to get through something like this  :(

Yes, she's turning it into something for good. She's a labor and delivery nurse. But all those families, and she lost hers!

Sounds like she is a strong person with a good heart. I really hope good things in life come her way. Divorces and custody battles can be so cruel!

So, after not hearing anything from my ex (after he stormed out of mediation) I also was in NC with him. Until I had to ask if he was going to come get the kids to stay with him for the weekend, and if yes, at what time and where (as I needed to schedule some online meetings for Friday afternoon at work) would he pick them up. It’s been roughly a month since the kids have been at his place. Well, I got no answer, but instead he answered the question by sending a message to S11. So using a child as the messenger. While I think it’s wrong and an adult should be communicating this stuff, I decided not to react emotionally and just messaged him that ok, you can then get the kids at thisandthis time and place. No answer to that either.

Well, Friday came and he came to get the kids as agreed. Nothing special here. But then a few hours later he sent an email to his mother (the one who was afraid to send birthday gifts to kids because of me  :() and bcc:d me to the message. Image of him and the kids and an image of a small toy he got for the youngest. Saying they were going to go hiking during the weekend. You might remember that is something I love to with the kids and he has never liked much, so I take it as mirroring.

This message was written also as if nothing was wrong and it’s similar to what he could’ve sent me while we were married/on a good day.

I have not reacted to that email in any way. After all that has happened, it just seems odd behaviour to send something like this. While it is easiest for me just to ignore this email, I wonder if it is the wisest thing to do. Or should I try to somehow validate/support this behaviour? Any thoughts on this?

Honestly, at this point I’d rather be in NC except for the practicalities regarding kids. And if I respond to this email, I am afraid it will backfire sooner or later. But I’d appreciate your thoughts on this.

I'm curious how you decided to reach out to him, vice expecting him to reach out to you regarding setting a time for pickup?

Best,

FF

There's no need to respond to the email. He's just congratulating himself on doing what he should be doing -- parenting -- and letting his mom and you know it. Yes, hiking might be a dog at you, but he may just not have any ideas of his own.

The kids need to be taken out of the communications.

I agree with Gagrl that there's no need to respond.


You also get a pass for doing what makes you feel healthy right now.

Some people can compartmentalize the highs and lows of their ex's emotional rollercoaster and kind of pretend that yesterday's f bombs and takedowns are separate from today's normal messages.

It can take a while to get there, to truly detach.

Not having a consistent sense of self means he will flip flop back and forth with these behaviors. If you feel you're getting the hang of that without any cost to your health and well-being, that's one thing. But if you feel it hollows you out or undermines your strength, that's a sign to take care of yourself first.

Maybe I shouldn’t have contacted him. I waited until the last moment when I really needed to know if he was going to get the kids for his weekend or not, and at what time. The only time I contacted him and it was really just a simple neutral question without anything emotional.

I do want to get kids out of the communication, I just haven’t figured out how to make that happen. I am not using my son to reply to my ex, I just say to him something like ok, thanks for sharing and I’ll reply to dad directly. But I have no control over my ex in this matter, unfortunately.

I haven’t responded to the email, it does feel like the healthiest choice for me. I just want to be in peace, and feel like I am doing ok when I don’t have to be in touch with him and deal with his rollercoaster. I guess I have some work to do still in detaching. I mean how does somebody go from practically nc to sending this kind of email.

I suppose my "theory" is that contact with him is hard (understandably).  So, limit it to the max possible.

If he expects you to have a child ready for pickup, isn't it on him to communicate his desires...vice on you to drag those out of him?

What if he really had no plans and because you reached out to him he decided to "mirror" an activity that you enjoyed?

We'll never know, but you can use this experience to influence your decisions...going forward.

Here's my vote to limit contact/responses.  

Best,

FF

FF, you are right about everything you say. And this was definitely a learning experience for me, once again. He needs to also learn to take responsibility of these basic things, only way there seems to be that I don’t do these things for him.

Thank you everyone who helped me yet again to make sense of this and navigate the situation. I can’t tell you enough how much your support means to me  :hug:

Yep...you didn't do anything wrong this time.   You did lots of stuff right.

The biggest thing you did right was paying close attention to your feelings, especially ones that were icky.

You've got a team behind you here at BPDfamily and rooting for you.  We helped you examine those feelings, especially as they related to things you can control and it looks like you have some ideas about what you may feel better about going forward.

That seems like a recipe for success. 

What do you think?

Best,

FF

It does feel like a recipe for success indeed  :). Might be a marathon ahead, but I am determined to make it. It’s been tough so far, but the thought of achieving balance, peace and joy one day keeps me going.

Great stuff from the group. I'm on the same page -- that kind of "me me me" email from him doesn't need a reply. There was nothing about child logistics in it, right? Just as LnL said, an "applaud me for parenting" type thing? Yeah, not your job to do that for him.

...

Here's something you can think about for next time he's supposed to pick up the kids:

Instead of doing an "ask and wait for an answer" style email ("hey, are you still planning to pick up the kids at 3pm? Please let me know ASAP!"), what do you think of doing a "decide and inform" style email? That could look more like:

"Kids will be ready for you at 3pm on Friday like we decided. Let me know by 3pm Thursday if you want to do something different. If not, I'll assume you'll be at Location at 3pm. Cheers; Marianne-11"

That way you're not waiting on him in order for you to move forward with your plans. The ball is in his court to make any changes and inform you if so. Plus, you have "built in" to that email that not hearing back from him is confirmation. This can be important if you have a stonewalling/radio silence ex. A heads up though, DH's ex does seem to get triggered by "I'll assume X if I don't hear back from you by Y". So it's not a magic solution all the time.

Here's the opposite scenario.  Right now stbEx is doing more parenting than his norm, right?  Odds are that at some point he will begin slipping back into his comfort zone of less parenting.  He may start to miss exchanges.  So the approach to say "If I don't get a reply then I will arrive at the exchange location at this time" would have you and the children sitting and waiting for a no-show.

If that happens then what do you do?  Most orders expect the child to be ready and present, you can't just say to yourself, "Ex didn't confirm and was a no-show at the exchange last time so why bother going when he might not come anyway?"  However, in most cases you can't take it upon yourself to decide when to follow the order and when not.

It's not the problem now but as time passes he will slip back into his past patterns.  Ponder how to address that in the future.  Maybe nothing could be included in the exchange clauses now, courts are a bit wary of added what-if clauses.  But you may need to craft a solution when that occurs.

Hi Kells! The email had nothing about logistics, it was only "see how great I am with the kids". My initial fear was that is he so delusional/in denial that he thinks we're good and he'll soon try to come back home (similar experiences in the past with him). The other option I can think of is that he is just showing off for whatever reason. Either way, felt icky. Even scary, like why can't he just let me be. I haven't and will not reply. My worry was also that if he wants a reaction from me and does not get any, will he somehow take it out on the kids. But kids are back and that fear luckily is not relevant anymore. And thank you Kells for the good idea about how to communicate about the exchanges in the future. I think it is well worth trying and see how it goes. 

And thank you ForeverDad, I think I will have to be prepared for a no-show from him in any case. And you are right, this was his first weekend with the kids after nearly a month of very little contact with them (practically no contact with S4). It is very likely this increased interest in parenting is just a passing phase, unfortunately. 
 

Same in my situation, kells76.

My ex didn't go through tender cycles so there wasn't a whole lot of hot/cool after we split. However, I did try to butter up my language while doing what kells76 is suggesting.

"I understand sometimes it's hard to coordinate when you have all those demands at work. I'll plan to do x if I haven't heard back by y to limit my questions about pick-up."

n/BPDx had a healthy streak of narcissism so any hint about his importance seemed more effective than drawing attention to competence on my part.

Good point! Certainly some narcissim can be seen in my ex’s behavior as well, so some buttering up might help.

Oh boy, I feel so much better prepared for the next exchange situation. Thanks so much to everyone for sharing your thoughts and experiences!

It's had to say precisely what his motivations were.  What if it also was partly for him to appear to others besides you that he's a nice guy.  As in, "my kids are fine with me, M11 just overreacted."  Sure, how he treats the kids now and how he treated you then are two different things but his lawyer, for one, would want the history muddled so he wouldn't so easily appear like a total loser/abuser.

In case I hadn't mentioned this before, the courts have a tendency to separate a person being scrutinized into two persons, an adult (in a relationship with you) and a parent.  Yes, you could have a protection order from the ex and yet the ex's parenting could have lesser restrictions.

That's what happened in my case.  After my then-spouse was released Monday morning at municipal court — it didn't handle parenting issues but did give me a TPO — her next stop was domestic court where she filed for her own TPO and included our preschooler with her.  That got CPS involved and when I appeared in court to address it, the CPS rep stood and stated he had "no concerns" about me.  So the magistrate excluded our son from her TPO, set a parenting schedule and continued the rest of her petition to another hearing a month later.

ForeverDad, you're right, he might just polish his image as a parent for future purposes. Still I wonder why he needed to include me in this email, could've just sent it to his mother. Or maybe he tries to claim later on that I am not cooperative/am hostile because I don't respond.

And thank you for sharing your experience. I have also figured the courts might have this approach. So much to think about that I am feeling a bit overwhelmed right now. Luckily I will have a meeting with the new lawyer next week, so that will be a step forward at least.