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These things seem to get to me when I'm not at my best.  

I was frustrated about raising teenagers and trying to relax and do deep breathing.  She was on the couch next to me.

I said something to the effect of that I need to get my head together and push forward on a project that teens where helping with (but not listening very well).

Then my wife went to her "hypothetical mode".  Well...if I had a teen do x I would do Y and I bet you would feel better if you would do the same.

I agreed with her.  Here is the thing...x didn't happen and I do agree with her that if x happened you should do Y.

So..go through a couple iterations of this with me trying to be patient.

Then she asks if it helped.  I said it was interested but didn't address my frustration and that I would like to talk about that.  

She then launches into I'm not listening to her, she is not going to take my condemnation.   Then went into broken record mode about "no more condemnation".

So..frustration upon frustration for me and I have no idea what I'm condemning.

Just not up for this today.  Most likely it will pass in hour or so.

Best,

FF

A few things strike me:

1: this is BPD. When needs come up, the focus must pivot to THEIR needs. That's just what often happens... right? Part of the disorder. If your "slice of pie" of "having needs" gets bigger, theirs "must" get smaller, and that's intolerable.

2, and perhaps more important in my eyes: she had a need to be a helpful person (and/or, a need to feel like a helpful person). When you didn't concur (or find some way of affirming some affirmable aspect) about her helpfulness... you weren't meeting her need for seeing herself/experiencing herself a certain way.

3. all-or-nothing thinking tied to 1 and 2. 1, no shared meeting of needs. Yours or hers -- not both. If yours are being met, then hers "are forgotten". 2, you're either affirming her helpfulness or condemning her as unhelpful (or perhaps an unsupportive spouse). Perhaps that's the condemnation at play for her.


This is pro level subtle stuff going on here. She is coming across as "with it" and grounded, but it's still her underneath. I too probably would've been lulled by the normalcy into treating her question ("Did it help?") as a normal question... but it wasn't. It was a referendum on her goodness as a helpful/supportive wife.

I'm going to say that the "but" in the statement above was where things took a turn, maybe?

What are your thoughts?

(edit: oops, crossposted with Notwendy, with whom I agree)

FF, I think one disconnect is that- you are a fact guy and she's speaking in feelings.

That's tough when you are focusing on facts. But there's a time and a place for facts and for feelings.

I understand, if you are flying a plane, there's only room for facts.

But if the consequences for error don't really exist, ie the two of you are just speaking about something, not making a decision, letting the facts go might not matter, but missing the feeling part might.

You were frustrated. That's a set up for possibly being reactive or missing something.

But your wife actually seems to be giving you advice- trying to help- and yes it missed the facts X didn't happen, but the feeling was there.

Then she asked if it helped- and I think that's where you missed the message. Maybe it didn't help but - the response could have been " thank you for being helpful- I appreciate it." and she would have felt validated. It's the truth- the advice didn't help but if she was trying to be helpful- that is true. If she pushes for more- then " I will think about what you said to me"

When you continued to be frustrated- I think she was already feeling put off by your response to the advice. That meant she didn't help. Then she was triggered.

Feelings aren't necessarily facts but picking up on feelings when you can might go a long way.

I also think Kells is right on when you looked to her to share your frustration with. That doesn't go well.

I'm in a better place, not fixed...but better.

It's not unprecedented for my talks/asks for support to go ok, or even well.  Although recent stress has had us on a different path and it's less likely she can support me.  Sadly..that same stress tends to make me need her support (or some support) more.

Sigh..I'm glad you guys are here and appreciate the responses and support.

Best,

FF 

The turmoil/weird mood continues.  I'm doing my own thing today and ignoring "bids" to fight or talk about odd things

FFw slept in and I had alone time and then time with my youngest daughter when she got up.

Our small dog sleeps with us and generally gets up when FFw gets up.  I normally take her out to the backyard to potty.

Well..when FFw and the dog gets up I'm on chat session with sears home repair.  (dishwasher doing weird stuff)

Anyway I asked S12 to take the dog out potty.  FFw is sitting on the other end of the couch with the dog.  There is a brief pause and in a nasty tone FFw says to S12 "your Father isn't going to take the dog potty, please take her out". 

She then turns to me and says "If you aren't going to do what you are supposed to do and take the dog potty, you should ask someone else..."  (which I had done)

I looked at her..said "Oh" and went on about my business.

Sigh

Best,

FF

Good for you for not taking the drama bait.

Keep in mind, dysregulating has a "reset" function for them- they feel better afterwards, so sometimes starting drama allows them to do this.

Things might appear to be going smooth, but all the while, they are getting restless and then eventually there's an issue.

This also seems to happen when the partner is feeling down, not up to par, busy or distracted.

I think the antidote is self care and if you need to vent for support of course do it here, but also if you have a person you can confide in that helps too. You might need to schedule additional time with a therapist. I know a pastor didn't work out for you but maybe someone else- another clergy, or someone you can talk to.

I think everyone is having a rougher time than usual during this pandemic and with the holidays coming up.. Take care-

I realize I'm just a newcomer here and don't know what I'm doing, but I certainly have appreciated your support, and I know a lot of others do as well. Sorry you're having a rough weekend! I hope and pray it improves.