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Has anyone had a BPD relative  sue them?

The situation:  I emailed my uBPD sibling sharing my decision as healthcare POA  to follow the medical recommendations of her palliative team to move my mother into a memory unit of her current assisted living.  This was following many strained communications, lots of verbal abuse towards me and the medical team. I moved my mom a few days later.  She is doing great.   I checked my personal email twice a day for a response from my uBPD sibling for over a week and was enjoying the peace and quiet of NC.  My husband  double checking to make sure it was in sent mail ( it was!)  as the expected explosion had not occurred.

She responded a week and a half later. Her email is  completely unemotional, not typical of her and not what I expected.  She claims “50% Power of Attorney” and states she has neither agreed or disagreed with “ my decision”.  Then she rattles off a plethora of questions about my mom’s ability to afford the care, why other options were not considered and whether factors such as “quality of life, religious needs most importantly, love, compassion, and access to family and friends”.   She goes on to say I likely have encouraged my patients to seek second opinions, she has done so, and claims those she she is seeking guidance from disagree with me and her medical team.  She then asks for a bunch of documents, medical reports and financial information. She closes with she will review the information so she can evaluate my decision and if we can’t agree on an alternative that we will need to pursue a “ legal agreement.”

I have tried to have productive conversations, and to include her in the decision making process.  At the end of the day, it has nothing to do with what is right for mom, and everything to do with her feeling like I have excluded her from the decision making process and  “ robbed her” of time with our mother. 

I went away with my husband for the weekend and didn’t see the email until today ( it was sent 4 days ago).   I responded by sending her the HC POA document( for the 3rd or 4th time) using BIFF.  4 sentences, including Happy Mothers Day.  My son said I was too nice, so I think I nailed the “ friendly” part, but I think I achieved brief, informative and firm too. 

I knew she would not take it well, but I didn’t expect this.  I think someone helped her write the message, perhaps an ill informed friend with legal background or perhaps a paid attorney who has incorrect information.   It doesn’t really matter.  My concern is that even though I am clearly the HC POA and was acting within that authority, we are 50/50 Financial POA.  We are able to work “singly” which means each of us can act independently to represent my mom.  I have done 99% of that role for the last 6 years but I am now worried, that she could use that to try to undermine the situation.   I feel like I have no choice but to consult an attorney myself, to assure that she doesn’t try to do something ( like pull my mom’s money out of the trust) or force some legal negotiation that would require her to “ approve” my mom’s expenses. 

She has threatened legal action multiple times, but I never thought she would do it.  For the first time, I believe she has initiated that process or is actively planning to do so.   

The good news.  My mom is doing amazingly in her new memory unit.  I spent the afternoon with her there today for Mothers Day and they had a lovely outdoor concert with a live performer, she was clapping and shouting “ bravo” throughout.  She told me she is “so happy she can’t stand it”. She loves it there because “they meet all of my needs.”  I have complete clarity this was the right thing for her.  That’s what counts.

Navigating a legal battle based on her wounded emotional  unfounded accusations feels like it could be  really horrible. If she goes down this path, I can’t imagine any hope for a future relationship with her. 

How frustrating! I am so sorry. (And...here is where I am grateful I am an only surviving child caring for my mom in home hospice.),

You say you have handled 99% of the financial work over the past years. I would suggest you collect those records.

Can you also proactively bring in one or two geriatric/memory card specialists to progesterone opinions and attest to her current needs and her satisfaction with her current care?

Can you ask that the trust be transferred to an administrator who is third party and objective?

Excellent idea! Thank you GaGrl. I assume there is some cost to the estate but may be worth it. My mom’s financial advisor has suggested repeatedly that I charge the trust for my time, but that really didn’t feel like what my parents wanted. It would be a relief to give that away. My sibling can’t do it.  And yes, we have all the records.  100% has gone to my mom’s care, pretty squeaky clean. 


My mother’s geriatric psychiatrist, her Parkinsons Neurologist and Geriatrician all have long standing relationships and could be pulled in if needed.  They have documented my mothers input and wishes in her medical record. In fact her biggest fear is having to move out of her current “home”. Hoping that isn’t necessary.  Her geriatrician has been extremely accommodating and explained things repeatedly.  My sibling asked to meet with the doctor separately and she said no.  Frankly the care team feels manipulated and attacked and sees no reason to continue to engage with her.  They do it for me, but may have hit their limit.  This is where I think an attorney could help me figure out whether affidavits from them would help or hurt.

Just getting the trust into the hands of a third-party administrator would take so much stress off you, in terms of the daily/monthly responsibility. I hope something like that can work out for you. I suspect your sister would object, and then a judge would need to order the transfer.

My brother and I had a situation with some similarities.  I am terribly sorry for what you are going through.  The good news is that you are in a much stronger position than we were in a multitude of respects.  


She is going on a fishing expedition to see what she can twist to use against you.  


It's important to continue documenting your efforts to keep her involved and to ensure she has access to your mother.  


I understand your son's feelings, but warmth is critical.


Given the direction this is going, you would be wise to consult an estate planning attorney, ideally one with a background handling allegations of elder abuse.  However, at this point it's best not to mention your consultation to your sister or say anything vaguely threatening.  Your mom created the trust. I don't see how the terms can be changed now that she has lost legal capacity.  I think your sister is just going to try to bully you into giving her more power.  If she pulls the money out of the trust, she will be committing financial elder abuse, which is grounds to petition to the court to have her removed as financial co-trustee.  




 :wee:  That is news worth celebrating.  


I feel for you.  It's important not to say that to her (obviously) as it will just inflame her. She is looking for reassurance that you will not abandon her as her mother is quite literally in the process of doing as she winds down.  

If she goes to court to have your mother moved, the court will rely on your mother's doctors.  In any case, it is common knowledge by those who deal with elder law that moving a person with dementia when she has already settled in is generally not good for the senior's wellbeing.  

My best wishes for strength in the months to come.  

This is so wonderful!  I would suggest recording some of these conversations with your mom, so that if you ever need to provide it, there is objective evidence in your mom's voice, of how happy she is, to support what the medical staff would already say.  Also, medical staff at a facility can come and go (should they need to be called upon for expert testimony), but having your mom's voice on the phone voluntarily making those statements (without leading questions) wouldn't hurt, should your sister follow through on her threats.

Does your sister have the "means" to drag this through the courts, or could this be an intimidation technique that she isn't likely to be able to follow through on?

Is it possible to get "copies" of this documentation for your own records?  I only suggest it because of cases where documents have been lost.

Document your conversations with your sister (or record them).  Sounds like all the financial records are already in order.  Sounds like the medical staff at your mom's home is fully aware of the situation, and there is already documentation on file of your mom's wishes.  Consulting a lawyer you've vetted who has experience with BPD in a family, is probably a good idea, and what s/he has to say could even put your mind at rest.  

From here on in, I would suggest taking care of yourself.

I have my own story with H's sibling.  H's mother was diagnosed with a terminal illness and died a few months later.  Both H and sister had enduring POA for his father.  H's sister volunteered to have their dad "move in with her", and thereafter ensued 7 years of financial abuse.  As POA, she signed his cheques and paid herself probably 75% of what would have been inheritance before FIL died during Covid.  My husband and I wasted countless years trying to be rational with her.  It was exhausting.  Frustration doesn't even begin to describe it.  My point is, your sister is going to have her own twisted thinking, and there is no way to rationalize with someone who has twisted thinking and makes decisions that serve themselves first.  Like you said, she isn't considering what is best for your mom, as your mom has already indicated how happy she is.  BIFF yes, but keep it simple.  Document your efforts to keep her involved yes.  But we got baited into conversations that could never be productive because of the disordered thinking.  At the time, we didn't understand how disordered she was, so you are already far ahead of where we were. Always stay neutral (take off your sibling hat and put on your doc hat), and avoid being tempted to JADE is my suggestion.  There are no words to describe the stress H's sister put us through regarding his care. In his last few years he told us he made a mistake in accepting her offer to live with her.  He chose to relocate to our city and live in an assisted living facility (and later complex care), but the waiting list was so long, he never got the chance.  

So yes, consult a good lawyer.  Yes to BIFF.  After that, focus on your mom and yourself.  Don't let your sister take up too much space in your head.  We made that mistake, and it cost us much, in so many ways.  Once the Will is executed, H and his sister are unlikely to have anything to do with each other.  It's sad when families have such toxic individuals.

On a different note, I am curious to know if your mother went into assisted living care "willingly"?  My uBPD mom has many complex conditions, and qualified for assisted living 2 years ago, but refused to even have her name put on a waiting list.  I am so happy for you that your mother is in care, and is happy with her care!  Truly worth celebrating! :wee:

This article was in the Washington Post today. Interesting that it doesn't even mention sibling dysfunctionality, just "normal" sibling disagreement. It does have a link regarding mediation, which might be helpful.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/aging-parent-care-sibling-conflict/2021/05/07/8c0f2c40-a786-11eb-8c1a-56f0cb4ff3b5_story.html

I have a meeting with estate attorney tomorrow and will definitely pursue this avenue.  She will oppose, if it is my idea, but perhaps there is a way to make it her idea. 

Yes, it was my parents decision, as my father’s care needs were beyond what we were able to collectively handle and they preferred AL to private care givers.  He passed away a year later, and she has loved being there ever since.  She expresses appreciation frequently for my father leaving her the financial means to stay there. 

I think the main message I am hearing is to document all of my efforts and my mom’s wishes.  Good advice.  I hate to be in a defensive mode, but I am clear on the need to prioritize and protect my mother, while caring for myself.  Thank you Methuen, Missing NC, and GaGrl for sharing your stories and advice.  It helps a lot to know others have been through this and to be proactive and realistic about what I may be facing.  Thank you. 

What your sister is doing is horrible. I consulted an attorney today, and he kept asking me why was I even being threatened with arbitration by my sister when I had agreed to sell the business and property to her. He said this is just a contract dispute that can be settled through negotiations. It was exactly as I thought. I think you are right about needing to consult an attorney. I have heard it never works to give people like your sister and mine who are high conflict personalities second chances. I am so sad you are going through this when you have done more than most people would to have a relationship with your sister and include her in decisions about your mother's care. My thought is for you to ask an attorney/attorneys about all the worst possible case scenarios that could take place with your sister, and how to best protect yourself and your mother. Unfortunately high conflict personalities can file all kinds of frivolous lawsuits that are generally thrown out of court, but not without considerable time, money, and frustration involved. These type of people often show their worst side when it comes to the settlement of close relatives estates. My family members certainly did. My only regret with my sister is giving her so many second chances, when it has been clear for a long time that she just keeps testing the waters with more egregious behaviors esclating to a point that I have told her I want nothing more to do with her. It really hurts to have to go no contact with a sibling. I know you would like to keep your sister in your life if a safe distance could be found. Possibly if you set some more legal barriers, she will have less options, though from my experience with a sister similar in many way to yours, I don't see much hope for her to be decent for any length of time because of her high conflict personality.  

I am not an expert on the legal aspects of this, but I do think having a legal third party for financial aspects is a good idea, as it takes the decisions off you.

I naively jumped in to help when my father became ill. I followed the lead of my friends who were helping to care for their aging parents. Well their situation was with "normal" parents and while there were challenges, it wasn't due to the relationship issues.

I know my mother does not manage money well and so I asked to be added to their bank account signatures in case I needed to help then with bills. They had enough money to meet their own needs. We have expenses such as college tuition. While I would be willing to help my parents if they didn't, I can't meet my mother's expectations. In addition, she'd have no problem saving her money and spending ours, depleting our own savings and I wanted to protect that. Well she raised a fit screaming I wanted to force her to the bank to take her money. Once I heard that, I was done with that idea. I don't want her money.

I told my father to consult a third party for financial management as I can't be in that position emotionally- trying to help while she tells everyone I am taking her money. He reacted with anger which was very hurtful.

My mother has since told everyone in her circle that I "abandoned my father and refused to help her" but the reality is that she intercepted and tried to take control of my sincere efforts to help. I was innefective. She still does that. Any time I try to help or do something nice for her, she takes control of it until it just doesn't work. One time her car was in the shop and I offered to go get it for her. All I asked her to do was to call the shop to see if it was ready. She refused, screaming " I will do what I do it when I want to".

It's frustrating to have your good intentions thwarted or twisted into bad intentions by a disordered family member. In this situation, sometimes it's better to have a professional involved. For me it wasn't because I wasn't willing, but that it was too difficult for me emotionally to be accused of something I would not do. I am sorry you are dealing with this but this seems to be a common trend when a family member has a disorder.

Notwendy, this is sounding familiar to me, because it sounds like your mom could be "reacting" to what she sees as a perceived demand.  For example, when you offered to help by paying her bills, it also meant that you asked her to add you to the bank account signatures.  Instead of her focussing on the help you were offering, she focussed on your request to be added to the bank account signatures, which she could have perceived as a demand.  Then the PD takes over all rational thinking, and she accused you of wanting to take her money.  

In the other example, her car needed to be picked up from the shop.  Again, you offered to help by picking up the car for her, but then you asked her to call to see when it would be ready.  From my experience with my mom, two things could be going on here.  One is that you are offering the solution, which she see's as controlling, because in her mind, you are telling her what to do.  The second thing that could be happening, is that when you asked her to call to see when it would be ready, she perceived this as a demand (even though it wasn't a demand from your point of view, since you were offering to help by picking up the car for her).

I have had many similar encounters with my mother in the past.  To make a long story very short, it led to me getting connected to a mental health specialist for geriatrics, who introduced me to the term "pathalogical demand avoidance" or PDA.  This is a relatively new thing, and has not yet made it into the DSM.  If you are interested, you could google it, and see if it could fit with your situation.  When I first heard about it, and looked into it, I must admit I rejected it.  But this specialist also gave me a script of scenarios, that I kept close at hand, and referred to regularly, and eventually I was ready to see the connection.  The script also gave me suggestions for how to communicate to avoid the conflicts with my mother.  It has been most helpful.  Honestly, I use all the tools from this site (not JADEing, asking validating questions, SET etc) to communicate with her now.  I believe in my mom's case, the uPDA and uBPD are probably co-morbidities.

In my experience with my mother, I have learned two things with the help of the geriatric mental health specialist.  First, I stopped offering solutions.  Inotherwords, I stopped being helpful in the way I was used to.  I believe mom saw this help as controlling.  Instead of offering solutions, I now ask validating questions.  So for the car example, "mom, the shop says the car is ready.  How would you like to proceed to get it home?"   This puts the ball in her court, and she thinks of the options.  From that, the solution is decided upon by her, or jointly between her and you.  This way, there can't be any perceived demand on her part (since you are not telling her to "phone the shop").  There may be an adjustment period, until she gets used to solving her own problems.  With these new strategies, I am still helping my mom, but in a new way (I prompt her to think of her own solutions, and make her own decisions).

Likewise with the bank scenario.  You were kindly offering to help by doing all the work of paying her bills.  But when you also mentioned she would need to add you to the signatures, if there is PDA, she emotionally reacts to that demand, and all your good intentions get lost.

If PDA is involved, the trick is to get them to think of the solutions, instead of us telling them what the solutions are.  We also have to learn to "let it be" when they make bad decisions. Sadly, sometimes the only way they can learn is through their own mistakes.  But it is their life to lead, and they also want to be their own driver and drive their own road so they feel in control.  In my case, I let my mom do that now, even if I think it unwise, or in some cases unsafe. For example, my uBPD mom refuses to wear her "lifeline" (a thin lanyard-like necklace around her neck with a button to push in the event she is immobilized by another fall or a stroke).  It has been explained to me by this mental health expert that my mom sees the "lifeline" as a demand to wear, and she has the right to make her own decisions while the doctors deem she is still competent to do so.  So she refuses to wear it.  It sits beside her bed permanently. She has had many falls, and broken bones, and it is always a crisis, with a long period of rehab.  As long as her doctors and long term care deem that she is mentally competent to make her own decisions, this is the way it goes.  All I can do is look after myself, while I continue to support her in a way that lets her be the driver of her own life.  I can't change her.

In short, I have stopped banging my head against the wall (finally at the age of 58).  I saw parallels between your stories, and some of my past experiences. It is so intensely frustrating to try to do the right thing, and be a helpful daughter.  But when it gets flung back at you in a distorted way (accusing you of wanting to "take her money"), one can fall into despair for even trying.  I'm not sure if any of these ideas are helpful or not to your situation, but I thought I would share. :hug:

I ended up consulting with two attorneys this week. They were pretty aligned in saying that I was on very firm ground, but also saying to do what ever it takes to try to avoid a formal legal battle ( easier said than done).  They both felt that engaging a mediator or 3rd party for finances, would create risk of a “middle ground compromise” which would not serve my mother or me well.  They  both feel (like many of you have advised)  that this will likely continue to get worse as my mother worsens.  They said to give my sister the information she is asking for, and to demonstrate good faith efforts to include her and keep her informed. So I spent a good part of the week putting documents together and have sent her two emails, neither of which she has acknowledged, (though I did get a happy Mother’s Day text, in response to my Happy Mothers Day message in one of the emails)


Thanks Zachira, I know you are right.   I am in a place of acceptance, and the recent events validate your point further. We will see if she backs down, but, if she does not she is deciding, not me, on this legal course of action.   If that happens, I will need to make it clear, though I always will love and care about her, that if she goes down this path,  that she is also choosing to abandon any hope of a relationship with me. 


I share your frustration NotWendy, but am trying to focus on the many people in my life who have validated me, and help me find clarity around what I must do for my mom.  The attorney advised that giving into my sisters demand to move my mother “anywhere” else other than where she is, will only hurt my mother.  My sister will remain unsatisfied, and will move on to another battle.   I am staying firm. 
 

My mothers physician completed the summary of recommendations this week, and said exactly that.  It is an excellent document, quite detailed and I forwarded it on to my sister, so at this point she has all of the documents she asked for, which was the attorney’s recommendation.


I did not answer the “fishing expedition” questions, so at this point I am done.  She has not acknowledged receipt of any of it, but is making cryptic contact and I don’t know what to make of it.  Example, she sent a video of an actor with Parkinson’s Dz who had improvement after an experimental treatment with stem cells. No comments, just a video. I acknowledged it with “thank you for sharing. there is a lot of promising research on PD, which is promising for the future” . Her response “and the present”. She has been participating in a Parkinsons Support group and seems to want to one up me her knowledge of Parkinsons Disease.  I am happy she is doing that as it has been hard to educate her and it is much better for her to learn from others, but even the things she learns there get twisted and distorted. 

Some days I feel a lot of clarity. I am trying to focus on my values and caring for my mother the best way I can.  I enjoyed the no contact a lot more than this cryptic low contact phase.  I am so ready to walk away, and yet legally I can’t at this point.  There is so much good in my life with my kids, my husband, my friends and my work.  I am trying to focus on all of that and push this stuff with my sister aside.  But it sucks.

Thank you for the link GaGrl.  The article is helpful and validates my feelings and experience.  I realize even without BPD this circumstance is common.  This statement stood out “ for some siblings, this is the last chance to gain the parents approval”.  I realize that I was my father’s favorite and my sister had a lot of unresolved issues with him when he died.  It is incredibly sad. My mom doesn’t have a favorite and has always been very loving towards both of us.  Perhaps my uBPD sister is seeking to be “my mom’s favorite” to make up for what she thinks I deprived her of with my father. 

Is your sister the "one down" sibling? For me, I am the scapegoat child, but then what happened to complicate this was that I went farther in school than my golden child sibling. This sibling was on the pedestal of being the "smarter one "and the one my parents were most invested in. They didn't know what to do when this one rebelled and the scapegoat child achieved academically.

I am not in any kind of competition with this sibling. I don't think our academic achievements are what indicates our value as humans, but in my family where it was important to "normalize" BPD mom, it was an indicator of that. While this sibling is still the golden child, they are also subjected to criticism from BPD mom for disappointing her and this has impacted their self esteem.

A person with BPD who doesn't have a strong sense of self may be intimidated by your degree if she hasn't achieved something similar. You may not see it this way- to you, the two of you are sisters, but if you have been in the limelight for being "the doctor" she may be desperately trying to make some headway into your mother's favor by also volunteering medical advice from her support group.

This isn't your fault of course, and it's not something on your part to fix but your sister's antics may also be her attempt to gain some status in your mother's perspective and so to her it may feel like a competition. If this is the case, maybe seeing it this way will help you deal with her.

It certainly sounds like you have done right by your mother.  Getting ambushed by your ubpd sib is demoralizing.  It sounds like an attorney buffer would be worth the investment. Detach from this toxic sib as much as you possibly can. The no good deed goes unpunished scenario she has created certainly must feel crazymaking and demoralizing. Hope that ubpd will see the light set us up for more punishment.  Irrational malice is not rational to state the obvious! Legal "mystification" by her is a manipulation trap. Be wary.

Hey MommyDoc

Uggg...triple uggg.  Threatening lawsuits to get your way!

I think you were wise to send summary of care recommendations from your Mom's doc to your sister.

I wonder if it is also wise to ask for a copy of the "opinions" that your Sister has.  As in have those "doctors" put their name and signature to their opinion and send it in for review by you and your Mom's medical team.

pwBPD seem to like to make other people "jump" and do all this work to satisfy them.  Anytime you can "hand it back to them" to do work...you should likely do that.

She claims to have all this stuff...well...have her show her cards.

If she fails to produce professionally signed documents, I don't think there is much wisdom in "doing more work" to satisfy her.

Switching gears to legal things.

My hope is that you have avoided many lawsuits over the years...yet as a hospital administrator I would have to imagine you have seen a few.  Probably seen some "with merit" and some that were "harassing" or "baseless".

My advice is:  Do NOT do any compromise or action whatsoever so satisfy your sister, without her written agreement and "covenant not to sue".

As in "I the pwBPD sister agree this compromise is what I want and in exchange for this compromise I promise not to sue about my Mom's care"

If she won't do that...I would let her sue me.  Because she probably will anyway.

I hate to say it that bluntly...but...

How are you doing with all this emotionally?

Best,

FF

Hi FF, thanks for the great advice. 

Right now I am taking it a day at a time.  It’s been several weeks since her “ document” demand letter, legal threat  and over a week since I sent the last document.  She has gone full NC, not even acknowledging receipt.  She even overtly snubbed me in an email with the property manager for our trust property. Comical (but confusing to the poor property manager). Emotionally, it is great not to deal with her. I think she sees NC as punishing me, but I  enjoy it.  I have had a busy couple weeks with my son graduating from college and my daughter graduating from medical school, so it has been nice to focus on my immediate family and their accomplishments. 

Legal... talking to the trust attorney helped me realize that any lawsuit will be  baseless.  I don’t think she will go through with it, because as you said at the end of the day, there are no medical experts or anyone who will corroborate her viewpoint.  There is no “money to win” so I think she will abandon it, as she has done before.   But I am actually OK if she does.  Yes, in my professional role, I have been involved in a number of baseless and legit law suits.  It feels good when they get dropped or we win, and feels yucky when we lose. Those experiences have taught me that as long as my mother is not negatively impacted, I can survive it.  I also think she genuinely cares about my mom and knows that a legal battle would be very upsetting to her.


That so resonates... story of my life with her.  My therapist has spent a lot time helping me to stop “jumping” at her requests.  I see it so much more clearly now. This one I responded to because the attorney advised I do so.  My friend who is an attorney also suggested calling her bluff.  I love the idea of asking for her “ medical opinions” in writing. I know they don’t exist.  Most physicians will not offer medical opinions on patients they have not professionally cared for.

She posted on Facebook that she might visit my mom in July. A little worried about that, but will cross that bridge when it happens.  I have a 2 week vacation in July, maybe I can miss her completely. For  now, I am going to revel in “no contact”. 

Totally...I mean, maybe a radiologist looking at films or lab person just looking at lab results...but other than that you should personally care for a patient.

I still think it is ok and right for you to send the care reports/recommendations to your sis.  In the future, before fulfilling more requests you should consider saying..

"I have your reports ready, I'll exchange them for those medical recommendations about Mom you mentioned.."

or something like that.

Best,

FF

Update/ Advice Needed:
April 27: After weeks/months of not being able to align on recommendations,  I let my sister know of my decision as HC POA to move my mom to memory unit
May 2: I moved my mom to the memory unit.
May 5: uBPD sister responded requesting a multiple documents and threatening legal action if I continued with plan (beginning of this thread). That was her last direct contact with me.
May 5-20: I sent 3 emails to her complying with her  requests for information and documents. Initial emails were BIFF, and included positive updates regarding mom’s positive progress in memory unit. She never acknowledged receipt or responded.  By the end, I sent the final document with minimal commentary.
Since May 5, she has been completely no contact with me until this morning.
 
My housekeeper helps me with errands for my mom and she has been facilitating phone contact between my mom and  my sister.  Yesterday, she told my housekeeper she was coming for my mom’s birthday ( mid July), was planning a Bday party for my mom, and invited her to participate. She also texted my 24 yr old son, saying she was coming to CA and wanted ideas for side trips for she and her son.   They both told me yesterday afternoon. It  had an emotional impact on me.   It hurt that she would reach out to my son and my housekeeper and invite her to a bday celebration and not me.  This morning she texted me saying she was looking at flights for she and her son to come for mom’s bday. 

I knew she would come eventually to visit and prior to her going NC, I had encouraged her to come. It will make my mom very happy and I want to support the visit for that reason.  Truth is, I have enjoyed NC and the prospect of her in person visit is creating anxiety for me. 

My response to her text was “ Best birthday present ever, I know Mom will be happy to see you. Let me know your plans.”  I know that probably will trigger her because I didn’t say I was excited to see her. 

After the  trauma (both psychological and physical) related to my role in the pandemic and some injuries over the last year, July is a month of intentional recovery for me.  Plans include a long weekend away for July 4, a 5 day staycation with reduced work schedule and 2 week vacation away mid to end of July. I had planned a very low key celebration with my mom for her birthday before I leave on vacation. (I will be leaving on my mom’s actual bday for vacation). 

I don’t want to include my sister in the staycation with my girlfriends, or adjust/compromise my plans.  Without knowing when she is coming, or what she is planning and expecting of me, I feel a rising anxiety around her making independent plans, having expectations for me to participate and then if I am not available, creating drama ( she will say, I told you I was coming for moms bday). 

How do I navigate, supporting my mom and her bday,  a safe interaction with my sister, and continued focus on my own self care. She likely won’t share any more of her plans, but should I keeping asking? Should I proactively share my availability and when I will be away?  My husband who wants to protect me, says I should be as cryptic as possible, as he fears anything I say or do triggers her, but my sense is she did break the silence and I want to have as positive an interaction as possible.  I feel really unsafe with her, and still am uncertain if a lawsuit is planned/coming. 

Where does your Mom live now and where will she live while this sister is in town?  I'm thinking memory unit in a care facility...but this isn't a detail to get wrong.

If in a care facility, are you allowed to take Mom out for brief walks and things like that.

If you are allowed to take her out, is there a list of people allowed to take her away from the facility?

How does the housekeeper fit into this.  I'm thinking housekeeper at your house...but if Mom isn't there..maybe housekeeper at the facility?  Anyway..please expand on this.

I'll keep further thoughts on hold until clarifications.

Switching gears.

I would be "aware" of all these calls and plans with other people but I would recommend you not allow it to "hurt" you.  Basically give sister the benefit of the doubt about who she texts first, second and third.  Give her that benefit "for now".

What does your sister do for a living?  How many kids?  Still married?  Do you know who and how many of her family is coming?

When is the last time you spoke with this sister on the phone?

When was the last time you and this sister grabbed brunch and talked (maybe separate answers of in a group or just the two of you)?

Don't you love FF's interviews? (note..only appropriate answer is yes... :(...to this question)

If FF was to suggest that you two get together for brunch..just the two of you...give me a 1-10 scale of your alarm/plans to off this FF fellow.

Enough for now...

Best,

FF

Hi Mommydoc,
phew.  I just wanted you to know that I have been reading your thread, and am very inspired by your courage and while I know nothing about the legal aspects of what you're going through, I stand by your decision to not be manipulated.

You are very strong, and competent.  Something our relatives with BPD like to take away from us, and something we work hard at retaining.  Reaching out to this board in the way you have shows strength, courage and the resolve to fight.

In a good way, of course.

Just want to say I'm in your corner and rooting for you, although I am quietly listening.

b

Thanks beatricex. Your support and validation really helps.  So grateful. 

Yes, FF, Love your questions  :wee: as they make me think things differently than I would on my own.  My mom has lived in an assisted living facility for the last 6 years, in May I moved her into the memory unit within the same facility.  Yes, I can take my Mom out for brief walks, or for medical appointments.  The memory unit has a beautiful outdoor area, so we mostly stay within the facility.  The facility is aware that only myself or my housekeeper can accompany my mother outside of the facility.  They also know my sister will visit, but should not take her out of the facility. I should probably check on that though.  My housekeeper is like family.  Started as our nanny for my oldest child 26 years ago and has been a big part of my parents lives for the last 10 years since they moved here.  Very special person, much more than a housekeeper.  My sister essentially does sales... initially meeting planning, then real estate, during pandemic, she was selling touch less credit card gadgets to restaurants.  She is married ( rocky) and has one son who is in college.  She and the son are coming to visit.  The last time we talked on the phone was April 14, after the family meeting, I called her to try to de-escalate.  She ended the call by saying she didn't want to be my sister and hanging up on me.  I maintained BIFF email/text contact, but she stopped responding after her last email threatening legal action. The last time we went out for a meal just the two of us was when she was here September 2019, we also did a family dinner out. I am not sure how I feel about getting brunch.  In public, particularly if my son or her son were there, she would be fine.  She will make snide remarks but nothing I cant handle.  Even if my husband is around, she is fine.  It is when no one else is around that she is verbally abusive.  So do I want to go to brunch, not really.  Would I, probably.  I guess I don’t dread being with her as much as dread being around her alone.  The last time she was here I insisted in having all of our “conversations” in the living room of the assisted living.  Easy to have a private conversation, but still quite public. It drove her nuts. 

And lastly, I can totally give her the benefit of the doubt.  The problem is I always have and then I get hurt when I let my guard down.  She has two sides.  I love her good side, but it feels like she shows it to strangers and acquaintances readily and reserves the bad side for me and her husband. 

Question remains: do I proactively share my plans to be away? How do I protect the staycation if she is here?

Got it on the housekeeper.  Good to have those relationships.  I'm blessed with some of those as well...technically not family..but in many ways so much more than "family".



Let's keep "flipping" this around.

Should you protect your plans while she is around?

Or

Is her physical presence an opportunity that is too good to pass up.

Let's flip this into a medical model.  You have a patient that for whatever reasons has been restricted to zoom meetings with you and there is an opportunity for an in person examination...how much scheduling effort should you go through to "make that in person exam happen.

Does it matter if the patient is your sister?

Does it matter if the patient is your Mom?

Does it matter if the patient is your "Mom's situation"?

I'm usually pretty dogged on sticking with an original idea...you and sis having your own lunch/brunch/coffee.

However..I think a "family meeting" is in order.  You, both kids and your hubby.

Neutral ground in public...I'm a fan of brunch because people are usually awake and with it...but not worn out from a big day and just wanting to sleep (the problem with dinner).

Note:  We can handle what needs to be discussed but I'll preview with you that most my coaching will be to give her an open door to say "it's ok".

"Any other issues with the documentation from Mom's doc?"  is very different from "are you still pissed about..."

Thoughts so far?

Best,

FF

Oh..for sure..make sure documentation is in order about who can and CAN'T leave with Mom from facility.  No wiggle room.

A bit discouraged that facility says that they went through this recently with another residen  and  unless my mom is under full conservatorship or I get an order from APS, I can’t legally block my sister from taking her from the facility.  I don’t have grounds for APS.

Today she texted me that she wants the Trust to pay all of hers and her sons travel expenses  for this trip as it is “in moms best interest for the visit” and estimated the cost of her 4 day visit at $2000.  So much for not wanting mom to run out of money.  I worry about the precedent, but don’t have the energy to fight this, as she is Co-trustee and I know that I don’t have grounds to stand on to deny her.  (it makes me pissed at my parents though for how they set it all up!) She is testing me and I don’t want to fall for it.  I responded, “ sounds good, will send you a check, looking forward to seeing you” .  I didn’t see this coming but it is totally within character for her, so not really impacting me.  My husband is furious about it, however.

The good news is she is definitely staying in a hotel. She will only be here a few days. The other good news is she will be gone before I leave for vacation and she is doing her usual of not being here for a weekend knowing I work full time. The facility will call me if she tries to remove her, as I was stressing about being out of town and her pulling a fast one.  My staycation and away vacation are perfectly timed for me to have support and respite on either side of her visit.

FF, my husband is all in on the family meal.  He agrees that she won’t misbehave in public. It can’t be lunch because she isn’t staying over the weekend and we will all be working during the day but we will make it dinner. Interested in how deep you suggest we go at that meeting. Or do we keep it light, and superficial. She does superficial well.  She adores my son so I feel certain getting him to come is the best insurance policy ever. Interestingly, he sees right through her. Liking this plan.

Somehow I wonder where your sister's interest in finances plays into this.

There's also some competition of "who is mom's favorite".

Is there some concern on her part that she won't get a share in the will?

I think for legal reasons, you can ask for receipts. I also wonder if there's a way to have a "reasonable" amount for visits determined. Yes, paying for visits is one thing, but at what level? The cost of plane tickets, meals, and a hotel can vary. Surely you would want her to be reasonably comfortable with good quality meals, and safe transportation, but without a limit- would it be first class plane tickets, luxury hotels, limousines and gourmet meals? This might be some families' usual ways to travel but if it's not yours, then consider what is a reasonable travel expense for your mother's budget.

I agree with picking your battles and letting this one slide due to how much drama it might cause, but I think there needs to be receipts for accurate record keeping and some kind of limit to how much spending is allowed out of your mother's funds. The idea that "mother needs this" can be stretched.

This seems to be about power and control.  Perhaps money.




More power and control. And perhaps vindictiveness.  Certainly a lack of good will.  Intent to hurt?  Why else wouldn't she invite you?


Uge. :(


Wow. red-flag So she's planned to come out with her son on your mom's birthday, and is planning a big party for her.  This will bring her lots of attention, and make her look really good, including in the eyes of the people who work at the home where your  mom lives.  The optics will be great.  But, she has also maneuvered to get "mom" (the trust) to pay for the expense of coming.  :(  Just Wow.   red-flag If her only motivation were to do something nice for your mom, wouldn't she pay for her own travel?  Said another way, has your mom also paid for sister's past visits?  On a personal note, all the years we travelled 800 miles to visit my in-laws every summer, or flew to spend time with them at Christmas, we never "billed" them, or asked them to finance our visits, which also benefitted us by maintaining family bonds and healthy relationships.  Just saying...



I see two patterns forming here.  One is about power, and the other is about money.  

I have a cautionary story to share.  It is not meant to scare you, but maybe to help you see what could be in front of you with your sister's distorted thinking.  

Our story involves my SIL, who we think has a PD, and certainly has distorted thinking, which always benefits her.  Eight years ago, my MIL was diagnosed with ALS.  While she was ill, SIL charged gas mileage for every visit to go see her.  :( While we thought this was odd, we didn't think much beyond that. SIL and H have made poor financial decisions their whole life, and struggled with putting food on their table for 6 children. Money has been an issue their entire married life of over 40 years.  MIL and FIL came from the old country, and FIL was essentially helpless to live on his own, because he had no skills, no motivation, and although nobody knew it at the time, he also had vascular dementia. When MIL died from the ALS, SIL offered FIL to "move in" with her.  We weren't in a position to offer the same because we both had demanding career jobs, our own family, my uBPD mother, and couldn't take that on.  This "move in" with SIL resulted in an entire renovation of her house, which FIL paid for in its entirety (not just his bedroom suite).  She basically got a "chef's kitchen".  She made a case that caring for her father had $ value (hard to argue), so a family meeting was held and $1200 a month was agreed upon as the middle ground.  The very first month, she started charging him extra for 1/2 of all the utilities (he was 80 at the time), and using his car for personal vacation trips, charging him for all the gas and new tires, charging him extra for his "deli meats" because she didn't buy deli meat, selling him $400/month for the doTerra products she sold as a business etc etc etc.  You get the idea.  When he died at the age of 87, he was paying over $4000/month to live with her.  She still doesn't know my H had access to their father's online banking records, and kept records of everything.  There were plenty of very difficult conversations and emails between my H and SIL, but it is impossible to have a rational conversation with a person who has distorted thinking. They disengage and refuse to communicate.  Every move SIL made benefitted her.  Both she and  my H were POA.  When FIL died, she had already spent about 2/3 of all his accumulated wealth.  My H is executor, and there isn't a lot left to execute. Although H could have taken this case to a senior's advocate and had a third party manage the finances, this too has it's problems, and H was more concerned about the stress this would cause to the living situation of his father, since the father lived with SIL.  She was difficult for him to live with.  He wasn't happy, but he also didn't want to go into a home.  There is so much more to this unbelievable story (she wouldn't allow him to get flu shots), but it was always about power and money.  

When I read the line that said she wants the Trust to pay for the trip to visit your mom on her birthday, that was just a huge red flag. Huge. So huge. Be wary, and be aware of where this could go.

She's already playing at NC with you, leaving you out of birthday invitations, planning a big BD party for your mom (which you aren't able to attend) and which will bring her lots of positive attention, and now she's asking for your mom to essentially pay for the visit for mom's own birthday party.  This exactly mirrors the thinking and behavior of my SIL.


Light and superficial in the beginning to set some groundwork, and survive the meal.  Transition when the time is right, to conversation about the birthday plans, travel expenses, and set some boundaries for the future.  My concern would be that "the Trust" paying for this trip, sets a precedent for every trip to come, and that they increase in the future as your sister "maneuvers" your mother.  My SIL would manipulate and maneuver FIL too.  She got him to renounce an equal share of $ he wanted to give to my H for the part of the renovations not related to him living there (eg the kitchen). She stood behind him at the phone while he told my H he no longer wanted to give H that equal share of the inheritance in advance.  So, how many trips are reasonable for the trust to pay for your sister to visit your mother?  How that conversation goes, may help guide you for whether or not to visit the lawyer again and reconsider using a trust attorney.  You mention "there is no money to win".  If there is little inheritance involved, this would actually be a good thing in my experience.  There wasn't a lot in my H's case, which makes it easier to "let it go".  Inheritance and money has the ability to bring out the worst qualities in people.  We just decided not to pursue the money battle, but it is truly unpleasant to have these kinds of toxic people in the family.  The bigger concern is whether she maneuvers your mother to convince her to move closer to your sister.  Since your mother is in a memory care unit, she probably doesn't have the capacity to make these decisions, which is a good thing.  The sad thing is, people with PD's are often motivated by what benefits them first.  I feel for you.  I really do.  Good luck with it all.

I am thinking of you and feel so sad about how your sister continues to escalate things. You are doing everything to avoid turning the problems with your sister into costly drawn out legal battles. Unfortunately, your sister seems to thrive on making things as difficult as she can for you. I am wondering if you can complain to your sister about things she does that really don't bother you that much, so she will do more of what is less harmful in the long run, and not focus on the things that could make things worse.

Please don't send her a check..yet... for the expenses.  What if you send the money and the trip never happens.  This is like a travel claim.

How long until she shows up?

How long until the meal?

I think this is a moment of deflection and giving her a half victory.

You will "reimburse" her for appropriate travel expenses.  You've talked to CPA and federal travel/IRS guidelines will apply.

Make sure hotel is within local perdiem ranges...and even just give her a perdiem amount for meals..don't require lodging.  (can anyone tell I used to to travel for military?)

As long as flights are coach..pay it.  If they want to fly first class they can pay the upgrade.

Start out the "dinner meeting" light and superficial.  Then jump right into it.

"Hey...something potentially uncomfortable to get out of the way.  Help me better understand the legal concerns you raised (give date/context).  I don't want to misunderstand text/email."

Then...wait for a response.

Let her stammer around and then say something like..

"Ok...so you are satisfied (do not use happy) there are no further legal issues to handle?"

(maybe a bit perplexed as you say the above.  You are handing her a way out.)

Thoughts?

Best,

FF

Thank you all for the outpouring of support and insights.  It is so helpful and the validation really helps.

This may sound crazy, but as her behavior continues to “devolve” and her character is being more clearly exposed, it makes me more and more self aware of how I need to show up.   I feel a little like I did at the beginning of the pandemic, we didn’t know exactly what we were facing, we knew it was going to be bad, but we also were clear in our purpose ( to save lives).  We actually had a rallying call, and made videos of our doctors and nurses, saying “ game on”. 

I know she is coming and when, I know she is going to have a party, I know her intentions are not good.  I also know that I will be here the entire time she is here, so if she tries to pull a fast one, I can take immediate action. ( My mom doesn’t even have an ID at this point so she wont be able to get her on a plane even if she was planning a heist . I also know my purpose is to assure best care for my mom, and to protect her from this ( if possible).  The staff will have a much closer eye on my sister when she visits, than when she was in the regular assisted living.   That is good. 

I have an excellent relationship with the facility ( and she has a very poor one), so even if she shows up as  her most charming self, I am not worried about what they think. They are very aware of her motives.   She might be successful with my moms friends, but who cares if they see her as the “good daughter”. All I want to do is cherish the precious time left with my mother and protect her. 

Methuen, you are right; power and money are clearly a part of it.  I also think there is a huge component of jealousy. She is definitely vindictive.  Her thinking is distorted... I used to try to deal with her like other people, and would just say “ we see things differently and that’s OK  and try to respect her perspective and validate it.  I now realize my existence, anything I say or do, really triggers her and she is very distorted particularly when it comes to me and she is very very jealous of me. The only time she is nice to me is when something bad happens in my life.   I was my fathers favorite and that was a problem. My mom doesn’t have favorites, but she definitely wants to be her favorite. That’s fine, not important to me.   We just redid our house, and I don’t want her to see it, because she will get jealous. She loves to use the word “ fancy” to describe me... you and your fancy job, you and your fancy trips, you and your fancy life.  Next it will be “your fancy house”.  Your story does have a lot of parallels and I feel for your husband and what he went through with your SIL. I will not let my mother move in with my sister under any circumstances.   Horrible! I agree, depending on what happens, there may be a need to be follow up with the trust attorney.  I am working right now to get 100% into the trust and as liquid as possible so the estate will be easier to settle. Almost there.   There is one piece of real estate left that should be sold, but she won’t agree (mostly because I think it should be sold).  She also really thinks “ she should get it” 100%. It will be interesting.

FF, I like the plan.  It feels good to have  plan going in.  I will do the family meeting, I will avoid being alone with her.  ( what do I say if she says, can we go talk alone?) It will be an unpleasant few days, but I will remain standing and I am confident that I can stay true to my purpose of assuring best for my mom. We made it through the pandemic, we didn't save every life, but we saved a lot of them, and we are all still standing and we are on the other side of it.

Zachira, I don’t think complaining about the small stuff will change her behavior. It’s an interesting reverse psychology, but at the end of the day, I think I just have to be like teflon with her... and let her behavior bounce off me, and stay focused on my purpose and advocacy of my mom. 

If she initiates a request to talk alone, prior to the family meeting...go for it.  Stay curious..have the recording app going on your phone..phone it pocket.  NO DECISIONS..just listening.

Mindset:  You are getting a surprise visit from a medical professional with unexpected test results...you want to make sure you have all of the information and then consult your team...if there is pressure for immediate reaction, explain it's unfortunate this is the first you have heard of this..circle back to "is there anything else" and then press forward with other matters..and post here on the boards/consult your team on your side.

If this happens..SLOW THINGS DOWN...gather information..stay detached.

As opposed to the group family meeting...drop the stinky mess in front of her and in a perplexed or curious way ask..."I'm wondering about this since written communication is hard...it appears closed to me..is that right?"

So you are quickly an easily giving her a way to say "oh my...it's closed"

Then...months later when she wants to reopen the issue "What new information is there since this issue was closed?"

Make sure that you clear your schedule at work (seriously..do whatever is needed) so that the initial read out to your sister is that your days are full..."I hope to spend time together with you and Mom..but of course you understand with my work and all."

How long does it take for you to get from work to your Mom's facility?  Home to the facility?
Perhaps there is a coffee shop or place close by that you can have your laptop and get some stuff accomplished.

Note:  I don't think that your sister is here with evil intentions.  Remember..BPD is using a reactive thing...vice a "plotting thing".

Oh..sure, she will toss you a couple curve balls...don't be shocked, yet I really doubt she is planning those now. 

I DO THINK that you will feel better about the entire thing if you and or your family can be closer by the facility and do some random/unexpected popping in.

Maybe your son can "swing by" the first day...same for hubby at some point.   

Best,

FF

So...I want more information about who can take her out of the facility and how much notice is required.

It's one thing for your sis to take her on a walk in the facility courtyard..it's entirely another for your sis to get Mom in a car and drive to who knows where..especially unannounced.

I remember taking my Dad out for doctors appointments and such and there was planning associated days in advance (he was in long term stroke recovery..so slightly different)

Is it possible for the staff/doctors there to say "Walk in the courtyard today is fine, if you want to take her outside we'll have to consult with her doctors first.  We've started keeping a closer eye on (insert symptom)"

Best,

FF

Thanks for the advice.  I like the approach FF.  Yes, the curve balls keep coming, if nothing this is interesting.  I kept telling my therapist, that NC was too easy, and I was waiting for the other shoe to drop.  I knew she would come, and somehow just knowing the dates  and that I will be here, is  more reassuring than the not knowing and worrying that she would show up when I was away and try to do something crazy.

Some interesting developments:
-The Facility Director has definitively reassured me that they will not allow my mother to leave the facility with my sister.   :wee: I have arranged my schedule to be working close by ( the facility is between home and work, so I will be within 5-10 minutes if they call to alert me).  Yes, I will probably stop by unannounced each day she is here.
-She is arriving the last night of our “ staycation”.  I didn't want to give that up or lie about it, so I made an impulsive decision to invite her and her son to stay with us, first night of her trip/ last night of the staycation.  We have the room, and she loves the resort.  She is getting in late, my husband and son, will be with me, and I will leave for work bright and early next day.  You may think I am crazy, but she is really into the “photo perfect” moments, and this might set a positive tone to the trip.  My expectations are low and I don’t expect her to behave, but I didn't want to give up the last day or to try to cover it up. It saves the trust a night of hotel.
-I got a text this morning “ I forgot to tell you, my husband has work in town and will be joining us, let’s do a family picture for mom for her bday gift.”

This triggers a few things for me:
-Husband has probably been planning to come all along.  My son say her texts with him indicate she is making plans to “entertain her son”.  Son/husband don’t like being around old people, so my sense is this has become more about a “trust paid” family vacation and less about visiting mom?   I am going to ask the facility to share with me, how much time she is actually there. Easy to do, as they require sign in/sign out electronically.
-Husband coming for “business” but trust is paying for hotel and rental car?  Trust pays, and he writes off the costs?  I know lots of people make vacations into business trips so they can write it off on taxes, but this bothers me, as I agreed for trust to pay. 
-My mom can’t see very well, so not sure a family photo is the right gift for her. This is for my sister.  It goes along with “facade” of us being one big happy family, and her desire to create posts on social media.  I will go along with the sentiment, but not going to do backbends to make it happen. Let her find the photographer, etc etc. She is only here for a very short period of time ( weekdays) and we are all working the days she is here. 
-Based on what she has “told me” she is only here for 4 days/3 nights, she has asked for payment for  hotel for 4 nights. /Might be an honest discrepancy but ... not planning to pay until there are receipts and they aren’t from a resort in another city! 

I think it will be great for my mom to see her after almost 2 years, and I need to make it as positive as possible for my mom.   Normally this manipulative stuff would be emotionally disruptive for me, but this time, I am in “ game on” mode, my goal is to get though it, stay curious and calm,  and then go on my planned vacation without worries. Appreciate any advice on the new developments.

I love the staycation idea!  Solid proactive approach.

I would drop any objections to the photo..just roll with it.  Don't contribute or anything either.

"Photos sounds like a lovely idea, please share details as much ahead of time as is possible so I can deconflict with work"

Solid work on talking with facility director..getting assurances.

Paying for trip:  You did not agree to give them blank check.  I like where your head is going regarding checking how much time they actually spend there.

Realize that you are setting a precedent...and realize that this is first time.  So...tread carefully.

You have been a leader for groups of people for long time now.  Is it easier to be a grinch early on and then get more liberal over time...OR...is it easier to "do whatever" with a policy and then "tighten up" after people are used to a a liberal policy for a period of time.

Here is the thing:  If she shows up, spends lots of time with Mom, no drama...FF wouldn't grump about the trust paying for everyone.

Best,

FF

Reading this gets my guard up.

What this looks like is "pushing the boundaries in increments" getting you to agree to one thing then adding  more, one at a time. Each step is something that pushes your boundary in a small way, but it's still something she can persuade you to do. Had she called to say the whole family was coming and it would be paid by the trust, she knows she probably could not get you to agree to it. "Frog in the pot" while slowly tuning up the heat works better for her.

I don't believe she's done yet.

With my BPD mom, there's always an agenda, and it's not one I am aware of as she isn't straightforward with what she wants, she just works up to it in small manipulative increments. If I object at any point she goes straight into victim mode " you won't ever do anything I ask and it's this one little thing" ( not really, it's a succession of many little things that add up to something I would not agree to) and by that time I am so far into her plan, saying no becomes a "big horrible" no.

One agenda may be the jealousy and evening out the score by using the trust for mom as what she's entitled to as it's so unfair that you are a doctor and she's not. In her mind, she's entitled to making things into what she might see as "fair".  Yes, it's true you studied and worked hard and still do to be where you are,  -giving up doing other things-  and had big school bills to pay, but from victim perspective, she's not going to see it that way. She doesn't see this as taking something that isn't hers. To her it's getting her fair share of what you don't need anyway.

I am sure from your perspective that you know the world needs everyone-  people with different skills do important things that we need,  and don't see things her way. You have probably not acted at all like she might think,  but with black and white thinking she may see this differently.

Keep in mind it is not up to you to fix her distorted thinking or diminish yourself for her comfort, or let her take advantage of you because of how she feels. We can not control what anyone else is thinking or feeling.

Your problem now is you are in the pot and the water is getting a bit warmer. At this point, it's about damage control and picking your battles. The expenses for her family trip will probably be more than you expected. Protesting now will likely become a huge battle that you probably don't want to fight. Think of this as a learning experience for you to see how she behaves. It will be good for your mother to see her, and her grandchild if your mother's dementia is getting worse, it's best the visit is sooner.

Once the visit is over, I think the next step is to make arrangements to protect the trust. I would consult a lawyer on this and come up with a clear plan about what is allowed for spending, and how much. This way the rules are clear.

Best wishes and keep your guard up.

I really connected with every word from NotWendy.  I don't think I could have articulated it that well.  Everytime you agree and say yes to a "little ask", she pushes for a little more.  See how much crazier the big picture appears (H and S and sis coming for 4 nights and getting the Trust to pay for it), rather than all the "little" asks which are spread out over time?

 So, to compare to my H's story, and his father who moved in with his daughter (my H's sister) and who used her position as joint POA to earn $4000/mo despite a much earlier family meeting agreeing on $1200, and who also financed a home reno based on FIL moving in with her...  These were all little asks too, but in the end, she financed her desired lifestyle as a POA.  While the home reno at SIL's was happening shortly after FIL became a widower, he lived with us for 2 months.  As the renovations started, she wanted carte blance cheques, and was incensed that her father and H asked for receipts before releasing funds for the reno. Holy that got nasty.  She would send receipts every morning as my H was leaving for work, always saying that she needed the money transfer immediately for the contractor.  When H would ask her to send the receipts with "reasonable notice" (not as he was leaving for work), her behavior never changed.  It escalated. No one could have anticipated her behaviors.  Her goal was to get what she wanted, and frustrate my H in the process.  FIL was defenseless with his personality, and yet undiagnosed dementia.  While the story is different, the strategies used sound exactly the same.  Where the story with my H, FIL and SIL ended up after 7 years of FIL living with SIL, was completely different than the place from where they began (what FIL's intents with money were, and what he thought it would be like to live with his D).  In that way, it perfectly mirrors NotWendy's analogy of the frog getting slowly boiled in the water.  By the time my H (who is caring and always wants to do what is right for everybody while avoiding conflict) saw what was really happening, he was already boiled in the pot, and it was too late for him to go back on some earlier agreements (which seemed reasonable at the time). Case in point - your sis getting the Trust to pay for this trip.  Sorry it took me so long to get to that point.  

Again, my SIL used to ask for gas money to go visit her palliative mother, as she was failing in health.  Really?  Who does that?   red-flag  Your sister is starting out similarly, and after every ask, comes another ask, which always benefits her.  Exact same pattern.

Like NotWendy says, I don't believe she's done either.  It didn't "end" with my SIL until my FIL died (8 years).

Getting back to receipts, after 8 years, H still has every receipt and financial record kept from that renovation.  He also printed off monthly online bank statements before FIL's account was frozen (after his passing).  It's all organized in a 1 1/2 " binder.  I would suggest not going the route my husband went (anything to avoid conflict) but taking what is helpful from his experience, and using it to protect yourself from the shifting quicksand that can't be seen until you are already in it. There is no way a healthy person could anticipate all the actions of a distorted thinker before they happen.  They are incredibly creative.  If my SIL was planning this BD-party, she would also try to get the Trust to pay for all visible and invisible expenses.  

This trip sets precedent.  Will this trip be a "one off" (re: Trust paying for the trip)? Or...what are the boundaries?  What is the logic either way?  Who benefits?

Don't get boiled in the pot slowly.  NotWendy absolutely nailed it.

I agree that the distorted thinking sibling is driven in part by jealousy.  It all goes back to FOO.

I also concur that staying calm around her is necessary.  She is going to frustrate you.  If you stay curious, don't react, keep composure, and always take your time to respond, it will help you navigate this, and she in turn will be the frustrated one, because she's not getting the emotional reaction out of you.  Keep your guard up.  With a whole lot of good fortune, all this "thinking" turns out to be unnecessary worry, but there are a heck of a lot of red flags to consider.

I don't believe your sister is done either, and she is testing you to see what she can get away with in the future. In my experience with a sister somewhat similar to yours, there will be no limits to your sister's unreasonable demands no matter what you do unless the appropriate legal safe guards are in place. I do think that getting some limits set on how the trust funds can be used now does make a lot of sense considering past behaviors predict future behaviors, and with these types of people the behaviors just get worse and any improvements in behaviors are temporary, for the explicit purpose of being able to manipulate situations in the near future.

Please tell me that no money has already been sent?

Part of the benefit of "reimbursing" expenses is that you get to see what they are "really" asking for and it gives you the opportunity to play the same game...moving boundaries by inches...or miles.

And...before you do anything with money, touch base with your estate/trust attorney.

For instance...one thing I might recommend is agreeing to pay all the expenses and letting her know that you will send out the check, just as soon as you receive a lawyer approved covenant not to sue and/or perhaps a signed agreement that there will be NO more trip reimbursements.

Giving in to these demands without it "costing" her anything is likely THE WORST path possible.

But again...see what the trip is really about first.

Best,

FF

Thanks everyone.  I have not sent any money, and don’t plan to until I get a receipt.  I texted her this morning re photo:
 “ That is a thoughtful present if we can figure out logistics. Let me know your schedule, as we are working  Wed/Th/Friday.  Yes, daughter could be photoshopped  in if photographer composes photo correctly with that in mind. Please send me your receipt  for flights so I can get the first check to you.”  I am signaling that I will only pay with receipts and as I receive them. My husband and I agreed we will make ourselves available Saturday morning before she leaves for photo, and let her find a photographer, the photoshopping, printing, etc for this special gift. 

I completely agree.  We will have to see what the trip is really about.     

I appreciate the need to set boundaries with her for future trips and using the trust attorney to guide will be helpful to set up a fair process.  She is a co-trustee, so if she wanted to she could write a check to herself.  She has never asked for checks ( I sent her a box when account was opened, but I feel certain she doesn’t remember or still have them). 

Notwendy, that is so true.  I have talked with a few friends who have relatives with similar “ entitlement” to trust funds that don’t seem right. 

She is definitely boiling the frog... I laughed out loud when I saw the “ I forgot to tell you...” re husband coming.  I don’t know what to expect other than “ more of the same”. 

So much for low contact, I received 15 separate texts from her over the course of today. Ready  for next  red-flag...” airline overcharged her and they are going to cancel her flight if she doesn’t pay”...  I was pretty busy so I replied to every 4th or 5th one, pretty cryptic, liking or “!” , “ call your credit card company”.    Cost was now up to $2K just for the airfare for her and her son... No worries, even with a receipt I am not going to pay that... By the last text, she said she thought she had worked out the overpayment issue, so maybe that is over.

That is worrisome that she could write a check and access funds.

Does the trust have rules and guidelines that have to be followed.

With this in mind, consider paying (with receipts) for updated trust rules signed off by both of you.

Again..trust attorney should guide you.  Not a time to "go cheap" on attorneys. 

Best,

FF

I am not a lawyer so I am not sure how this would be done ( but I think it can be) but I think it would be wise to set up a neutral, non family member, lawyer in charge of the trust and who would delegate what expenses are to be reimbursed. Both you and your sister would have to go through this person for approval.

You two are both relying on goodwill and common sense restraints. I think one issue nons have is that since we "wouldn't do something like this" our family members would also have the same thinking.

No, the "rules" are not the same.

Also, the emotional baggage between the two of you makes it difficult for you to enforce any common sense rules about the trust.

It needs to be someone not emotionally involved or related so as to not be emotionally vulnerable to your sister's manipulations and accusations.

In a somewhat similar situation, when my father got sick, I wanted some input to the family finances as I did not trust my BPD mother to manage them if he was unable to do that. My mother spends carelessly. I didn't know much about BPD dynamics at the time, and the reaction from my mother was that she complained to others that I was "forcing her to get access to their money". Knowing that this could lead to unfounded accusations I told my father to get a legal adviser or accountant to do this. Although it's common for adult children to take on these tasks for parents who need assistance with this, this was not possible to do in this situation.

Your sister is not thinking rationally and so communicating with her rationally will not work. Your very relationship with her is an emotional trigger. It will lead her to make decisions in her favor to sooth her feelings but this can endanger the trust funds.

Mommydoc:

You are co-trustees, so you are likely stuck with the checking account situation. If your sister forgets that she has checks and can endorse one by herself, well that's a favorable situation.

Unless you sister is flying to your state for trust business, the trust usually doesn't pay for it (unless you want to consider it trust business). If you decide the trust will pay, I would think the trust would only pay for limited things for her & not her husband & son. The longer you can keep her at bay, the better for you, but if you set a precedent, she may expect to ding the trust funds every time she visits. Got to decide what hill you want to die on.

I suspect a lot may depend on your mom's assets and the dollar amount that would pass to your sister.  If you mom doesn't have long-term care insurance and ongoing care will deplete assets, the trust value may not be worth much, by the time your mom passes.  It's a hard situation, that I think most people have to step into.  At some point, most people have to start liquidating trust assets to pay for care 

Handing the trust over to a paid trust administrator, at this time, is likely to require court action, if you sister/co-trustee doesn't agree.  I'm thinking your sister won't want to do that, especially if she is not as financially secure as you are.  She might want to preserve what she could inherit.

You can charge the trust, for your personal administration time.  Even if you don't choose to do that, at this time, it would be wise to keep an accounting of dates & amount of time spent.  It could become a negotiation point down the road. Maybe you make a point that to date, the personal time you have contributed to trust business & health administration for your mom is equivalent to a certain dollar amount.  Then, perhaps have a discussion about  the travel, lodging, etc. that you sister wants to ding the trust for & compare it with your contribution.  You may decide to not use this logic now, but it's something to consider in the future, when your sister plans her subsequent trips.

My sister and I were co-trustees.  We set up the trust checking account to require both signatures.  I am so glad we did that, as there were problems after our mom passed & we got close to dissolving the trust.  My sister was impatient and too eager to grab 50% of the money immediately, prior to settling final bills, taxes, etc.  Amazingly, with her anger and vindictiveness, she cost herself thousands of dollars in lawyer fees (to no avail) and added a year's time to getting her remaining portion of the trust.