BPDFamily.com

How did your BPD mother shape your view of who you are and do you think you're a feminist because of your BPD mom?

I recently had a series of experiences (since COVID) professionally and personally, that made me realize:  I am a feminist.  I didn't set out to be one, and I certainly didn't want to be one (oh god, in my family that would be akin to death).  But I am one.

I work in a male dominated profession.  I have no female friends, except work colleagues.

I am a work addict.  I think like a man (INTJ, extremely rare personality type, unless you're a dude)

Anyone else relate?  Is there any connection between my mom being BPD (and Super mom) and this personality trait?

I have been thinking for several weeks now, I should post about my BPD mother enrolling me in a study, at 5 years old, which I participated in for 25 years, about none other than (yup you guessed it) Empathy.  lol  How could she be intellectually, such a good mom, but practically be such a bad mother?

I am almost certain Notwendy will reply, lol.  and all the other smart women on this site.  By smart I mean "aware" "enlighted about mental illness" etc.  Not that I want to discourage men from posting, but this topic is unique to women.

on edit, maybe this is unique to being a child of the 70's (U.S.) and women's liberation and my Dad being codependent on my Mom.  I mean, I remember watching the news as a kid and my Dad had a crush on a blonde newscaster, and I remember the message:  you can be smart, but be beautiful, don't Act like a man.  So many messages, we receive from our parents.  Just wondering if in your BPD upbringing there were themes:  like "be as good as your brothers, but don't out do your brothers".  I should probably also add I have 3 brothers, and two almost have a world record in an athletic sport (which obviously I can't disclose or I would not be anoymous here).  I don't know if this has to do with our Narcissitic upbringing OR my BPD mom.  Or both. 

b

Interesting thread topic B.

I have pondered this too.

My mom had a dichotomous relationship towards men (black/white?) On the one hand, she hated men, and always made verbal snipes "thinks like a man", "acts like a man", "men are so stupid", or the best "just like a man" with a very specific tone in her voice when she said it.  She almost never missed an opportunity to put men down.  On the other side of the dichotomous relationship, she "couldn't live without a man".  She took every opportunity to flirt, especially if she wanted her car fixed for free, or needed help (after my dad died). She also always said "she needed a man in her life".  She made our firstborn ( our son), her "golden child", and practically ignored our daughter (2nd born), who by the age of 7 talked to me about it.  I knew it to be true, and had a conversation with my mom.  She never cared, and never changed her approach with either of our children.

To your point about feminism, while different people are going to have different thoughts of what feminism is or how it is defined, I am believer that some women haven't had the same opportunities as men because they are women.  There are not as many women politicians, or CEO's, or pipefitters, or electricians.  There are barriers.  Women have not yet achieved equal pay for equal work according to the statistics.  I believe women should have a right to personal safety, and this responsibility lies equally with men as it does women.  I believe women should have autonomy over their own bodies.  I do not accept that men can't control their physical impulses with women.  While the vast majority of men do, the one's who don't feel entitled (#metoo) and this is not ok.  Based on those thoughts, perhaps some people would call me a feminist.  But am I? I'm hoping the values I've shared would be the norm, and not "feminist", as "feminist" has come to have a negative connotation by some people.


Is there anything "feminist" or "negative" or offensive in the ideas I've shared?  

So did I figure out my values on my own, or did my uBPD mom influence my ideas?  I don't idolize men, nor do I speak against them ever (because they are men).  Without a doubt, the best decision of my life, was marrying my H, and he is one of the best.  I found him on my own, without my mom's help, and thankfully was able to make my decision without her input.  I was basically engaged before she met him.  He is a kind person (as was my dad).
As I sit here reflecting on this topic, I am certain that I came to my ideas based on my own experiences and observations in life, and credit the opportunity to go to university (which my mother gave me) as a time when I felt free to explore new ideas with many diverse people, in a very safe environment (away from my mother).  I also was able to pursue a career, which gave me opportunities, and autonomy away from my mother. I have always defended men in my mom's presence ("that not a nice thing to say mom.  Look at what a good person dad was").  My father, and my H (whom she admits is one of the best) is an example I consistently present to her today, because I know she can understand it.  Perhaps if my life had taken a different path, I would think differently.

What are the pros/cons to feminism?  Am I a feminist?  I don't think my uBPD mom played a role in what I think, but I also realize that's not very scientific. Maybe she did. lol

Yes, I do have something to say about this-- it's interesting how our BPD mothers influence our idea of "feminine".

I think we all "sharpen" our abilities and talents in some way, whether it's academics or social skills, or sports, music, we all have our talents. Somewhere along the line, for BPD mother, it was appearance and attractiveness. She's also intelligent but in her era, women were told to go to college so that they could have interesting conversations with their husbands. I  also heard that too at one point as a kid and that changed after the "women's lib movement".

My BPD mother is very feminine. Beautiful, delicately built, always dressed up, and a magnet for men. Her high emotional needs really made her the only "female" in the family- like in the superman comic model where Lois Lane was helpless and superman had to rescue her, and the rest of us had to be in rescuer mode. So I had to find some way to be a different identity and became more of the tomboy/nerd- good at sports and school, which irritated her some because I didn't fit her idea of feminine and confusing to me because I didn't think I was feminine either. By middle school, every "crush" I had was on a male teen idol and boys I was afraid to talk to at school, so I knew I was straight but didn't know how to be the "girl" in a relationship-because I thought that meant I should act like my mother does and I didn't want to do that.

My other role model was my father and emulating his characteristics had benefits. We could talk about subjects at school that BPD mom had no interest in. I also was competent and also got approval from Dad for being responsible.

The women's lib movement was ironic my family.  My mother- who didn't work outside the home, or do any housework decided she would become "liberated from housework" and that became her reason for not doing it. But the movement  did give me examples of women in the workforce which I was interested in. I believed I could do anything a man could do and pursued it.

Fast forward when I became a mom, and married to a man from a traditional family where his mom did everything and he expected this as well. I then realized the ideals of women's lib didn't fit my reality. Neither of us had role models of women in the workforce, but his mother embraced her role and did it well, so he assumed this would be my role too. My own career faltered as I took on the responsibilities of home and raising children. I don't regret that I did that - in terms of it was best for all of us, but becoming a "housewife" was a conflict for me because I loved my job and could not find a way to balance family with my career and still do both well. I very much wanted my kids to feel loved and secure- and to have a happy family life. I know intellectually I do this differently than my mother, and I am not my mother, but I needed the role in the workplace too. I am back at work now, much happier having a job. I loved raising my kids and grateful I was able to spend the time at home with them but struggled with my own self esteem.

I find it interesting that men seem drawn towards my mother. They adore her. Not that she was unfaithful, but men would flirt with her and admire her, and it makes me realize that there is something about us, beyond appearances, that attracts people to us and us to them.

I will also add, I have few female friends outside of work colleagues but being married, I have no real male friends either as this would be inappropriate.

Growing up, I had both male and female friends but probably more guy friends than most. I was also uncomfortable acting flirty. My dating relationships tended to form out of friendships or other connections, like being classmates.

Many women I know are in some kind of female group bonding. They play tennis together, or are in a women's church group, or volunteer group. These things have not worked well for me. I don't seem to make friends in them. But also I wasn't socially awkward growing up- I had lots of friends in school- both female and male, and I get along with people at work, so I am not sure where this happened.

I know that some platonic friendships risk being non platonic, but I still had a lot of platonic guy buddies. As we got older and began to pair off with spouses, this kind of thing became inappropriate. I can only wonder about how my relationship with my mother influences my friendships with women.

My BPDm had only daughters, and was very girl centric, and gave me the message that having a daughter is favorable to a son because a daughter will take care of you later on in life. Yet she favored my son over my daughter.  She didn't work outside the home but did expect me to go to college. And when I continued to work part time after I had children, she was critical of me. Always contradicting and always making it about her. "I'm glad I had only daughters. I would never leave my children to go to work."  I am a feminist and believe women can do anything they choose to do, and it's also OK if a woman chooses to stay home while the children are young. And it's OK for the man to stay home if that is what is best for the family.

Maybe, not sure.

My mother was something like a 2nd Wave Feminist. 1st Wavers fought for suffrage and the like.

She adopted me in 1974 as a single parent, when male or female, that was just short of scandalous. She drove a 3/4 ton Ford pickup when women rarely drove big trucks. I drove it as a teen and it was a beast, only power assist brakes. 360 V-8.

She also had issues with men. Her dad raped her and her sister before and into their teens. My mom was the baby of the family, orphaned by her mother at 12, and her dad at 14, living 2 years with him alone. And prostitutes he'd bring to live with them. She emancipated herself at 16, a hard thing to do.

She had an IQ of 137, certainly more than smart enough to be an MD, but due to the attitudes in the late 60s in combination with her severe lack of self esteem (shame), she chose nursing, a career about which she would complain about my entire childhood.

I sometimes wonder how differently a child raised by her would have turned out of she had adopted a girl. Would that girl have been under even more pressure to be like her?

I had one GI Joe doll (the 70s, not the 80s reboot), but was given "real pee" dolls so I knew what it was like to take care of a baby, something she never did though I was at the end of potty training.

Anything macho was ridiculed. Predictably, I don't think that she dealt well with me becoming a man at puberty. I was often shamed, even if subtly. My mom wasn't unfeminine, but also wasn't feminine in the sense of attracting or flirty with men.

Earlier, my mom hung out with other moms, who had girls. OK, no problem, I was used to and more comfortable with dealing with girls. You know what you know and don't know what you don't know. Many years later, I was told by a female colleague, "you're good with girls." I was in my late 20s, she in her early 20s. Our boss at the time, 6 years older than me, also took a special shine to me.

I wasn't a feminine man, but seemed to connect better with women both at work and personally. I also respected their struggles as women in the male dominated tech world.

I connected with my uBPDx well, but she had her own FOO issues coming from a family and culture of machismo men and suppressed housewives. She liked my attitude, but she overcompensated by being aggressive.  I don't mean "uppity" but she appreciated my gentleness and lack of controlling nature while often acting like her dad. Then telling me, 'sometimes I feel like the man in the relationship!"

Though I was the primary provider, fixed her car, advocated to Goodyear who was trying to take advantage of her as a woman and saved her a $2k rebuild. I could "man up" when necessary, and that particular incident reinforced in me that male dominance still takes advantage of women.

I'm likely an outlier here, but what I think what we might have in common is bring affected and taught gender or life roles by parents who were similarly mistaught about who they should be in the world.

I have an S11 and D9 now, and our daughter is more aggressive  while our S11 is more milquetoast and kind. I'm not sure what to make of them sometimes, having no guidance or references or context in my own upbringing.

Am I a feminist? I'll advocate for my baby to the end of the world and beyond, but I'll also support her when she "acts like a girl" like when her brother and the neighbor boys try to put a bug in her hair and she comes in the house crying. Comfort her, then lecture them.

I've also encouraged her desire to be either a cop or an engineer. In first grade, our son wanted to be a nurse and I encouraged that choice though his my telegraphed shame.

I still won't get him a real pee doll. Or maybe I will!

Turkish, I think a parent has a lot of influence on a child whether it's a male or female child. I don't think you are an outlier here at all. I think every "movement" is on a spectrum and there can be extremes. I think the women's movement did a lot to promote equality and yet, at the extremes, it also elicited anger at men. I recall hearing negative things about men in general during that time and while the "macho" controlling persona was a topic of criticism, I think being critical of any masculine traits was taking this too far.

While you didn't have a male role model, the male role models many of us had were compliant and not macho. We also know that both our parents influence our choice of partners and our relationship dynamics. It's interesting that your mother was a strong and independent person who didn't embrace the "traditional housewife" role.

Madeline- the different expectations are interesting. By the time I became a mother, the norm seemed to be the working mother, balancing career and family. I recall some of my relatives who "looked down" on me when I stayed at home to raise kids. My mother didn't seem happy about that either. She once even told me she felt sorry for me doing all that work in the house. At the time, I thought, I feel sorry for her.

Turkish, I think there were benefits for you in terms of emotional intelligence. There's the joke about men not understanding women which again is a stereotype, maybe an unfair one. But having some skill at that could be a good thing.