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This is a follow up to a previous post. I emailed my mom and dad to tell her that I was going to city hall instead of having a wedding that she was going to pay for. I did this because she was steamrolling the wedding. The last straw was when she said that my fiance's father couldn't come to the wedding unless he was vaccinated even though I told her we couldn't make him get vaccinated. This was after I asked her to stop inviting more of her friends because we wanted to have a small wedding. I just received this email as a response to my email.

"Hi (my first name),

I have been trying to call you to tell you to go ahead and invite (insert fiance's first name) father, vaccinated or unvaccinated. The fact that you didn't have the maturity, respect or decency to call me and tell me this is incredibly HURTFUL, SELFISH and phenomally IMMATURE! I will not be at your wedding - anywhere - and WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER speak to you again.

(insert mother's first name)"

I am shaking right now and in shock. Should I ignore her email? I don't know what to do to calm down.

Do NOT answer her email right now.  She needs time to calm down.  That email is a big nasty vengeful oversized hook designed to reel you in.  Do not be the fish that bites that hook.  Remember that she has a disease, and a push back response from her was expected.

The longer you remain silent, the more time she will have to calm down her emotional brain, and perhaps even rethink the things she said.  Not hearing a response from you is exactly what she needs.  That email was designed to give her the reaction she is craving.  SHE and HER DISEASE WANT YOU TO REACT.   Do not give her a reaction.

She has a disease.  This is her disease saying those things.  Give her as much time as she needs.  A week?  Two weeks?  Maybe longer.   If those emails keep coming, block her.  Protect yourself from this emotional abuse.

I might be wrong, but I get the feeling that even you were surprised by the vengeance meanness of her response.  Those words speak to how ill she is.

It lets you see just how important it was for you and your fiance to make this decision now.  You are taking autonomy and control of your own life.  Good for you.  You are setting a boundary, and boundaries are going to be what save you.

Right now, your only job is to take care of you.  What strategies do you like to use to work your way back to calmness, (and eventually logical thinking)?

 
A quiet private place where you can seriously wail and cry and let it all out.  This is therapeutic and healthy.  Please don't try to stuff it.  Let it all out wmm. 

For me, a LONG walk helps.  Even better if its in a park or a nature trail.  Fresh air.  Physical activity is a really helpful way to work our way back to an emotional baseline.

I also use meditation - yoga, or a meditation app.

Is your fiance with you?

He's with me. I'm going to eat something first. I didn't eat much today because I was so stressed out I forgot to. After that I'll go for a walk and then have a long shower. I'm worried that tomorrow at work will be hard to get through but I also don't want to stay home alone with my thoughts all day.

These are all such great decisions wmm.  For me, work is a healthy distraction.  It puts me back in a "normal" environment, and gives me a break from "my thoughts" as you put it.  

You are right that this is going to be messy, because well - your mom just is "messy", and that mess just swirls around her and everyone connected to her.

Enjoy your shower and walk.  I am so happy your fiance is with you.  

You also have a whole community here who "gets it".  We're here for you.

Be good to yourself. Ignore this email. You are not used to saying "no"  to your mother. This is a typical response no matter what the "no" is. We are afraid to say "no" because of this response. This was terrifying as a child and it feels the same now. As a child the message is" do as I say or you will be abandoned" and that is so scary.

The alternative is to say "yes" even to things you don't want to say "yes" to because of this fear. I understand this fear. It's the result of any time I said "no" to my parents. But my parents did not always make reasonable requests.

Ignore the email. What she says is more about her than you. You know it's BS about inviting the other parents. And it's probably BS that she won't speak to you again. As long as she decides to do this- enjoy the time without her calling you.

If and when she does come around, she will likely pretend nothing happened and expect you to do the same. The question then is, how much contact do you actually want? You can decide this later.

In the meantime, know that this is not personal to you. It's who she is. And for many of us here- we have been there- scared, shocked at the response when we say "no"- but saying "no" to some things is a boundary we need to have with anybody. Yes, when you mean yes, no when you mean no. Otherwise we aren't being true to ourselves. But it's a scary step. I think it's always scary and the reaction shakes us up. I have heard it many times. It's still upsetting.
Hang in there  :hug:

He's with me right now. I'm going to eat something first because I was so stressed out I forgot to eat. Then I'll go for a walk and then have a long shower. I can't cry yet. I booked a therapy appointment for Wednesday. It's the earliest I could get.

I don't know if I want her back in my life. It's hard because she's my mother and I don't have any other mother figure in my life. Therapy is very expensive. This always happens at some point though. If I go back to having a relationship with her then it will happen again. I said she could come to the wedding before she got upset but I don't know if I want her there. I don't want her having a fit and making it about her. The problem is that it'll make it hard to see the rest of my family. She's very good at controlling contact with all of us and my younger sister often takes her side.

wmm, it's important to remember that her actions and reactions really are "all about her." Always.

Your wedding, as it was being planned, was "her wedding." Her guest list, her rules. You were being set up as a player in her production.

Because you took control of your life and your wedding, she is reacting (VERY nastily, I might say), to losing control of her production, which was being set up to focus attention on her. Not you. So better now than later.

Keep in mind also that persons with BPD have difficulty self-soothing. She is angry, riled, and her only way to release those negative feelings is to release them on you. Your mother may eventually learn to self-soothe. She may calm down in a shorter or longer time period. Rather than focusing on how crappy the whole thing feels, spend some time with your therapist on how you want to set boundaries on her approach to you once she returns to baseline.

My mother and father drew boundaries with my mom's stepmother who was uBPD/NPD -- not around the "Wedding Production" (they thankfully had a very small home wedding) but three years later when step-grandmother showed up at the hospital for "Baby Comes Home From Hospital Production." That was ugly. But it had to be done, and my father did a terrific job in helping my mom through it.

I'm feeling very triggered right now about feelings of abandonment. I texted my younger sister and told her (she was supposed to be my maid of honour) that I was going to city hall instead of my previous wedding plans and that I hoped she and her partner could come. I haven't heard back from her yet. She takes my mom's side a lot so I'm worried that she's not going to talk to me for a while. We used to be very close until she told my mom confidential things that I had said to her.

I'm also having old traumatic memories come up. My mom and grandmother, who is dead, went for a year without talking to each other after they had a disagreement. I remember my grandmother coming to the house with clementines and a poinsettia to make amends and my mom yelled at her and told her to go away. She then told me she hated me. I was eight years old. I think she said it because I said hi to my grandmother. I can't remember the exact reason. That happened at lunchtime and I had to go right back to school afterwards. I didn't tell anyone at school. I just remember lining up outside to go in feeling sad but also not really comprehending what had happened. I'm sort of experiencing those same feelings now.

wmm

May I suggest that you watch Richard Grannon's Youtube video about "Very Cruel Person".

I have a problem with viewing pqBPD as having a 'disease". They don't have a disease. They are cruel, immature, nasty, selfish, awful human beings.

A human being with good intent and a basic level of intellect wants to do better and wants to learn how to be a better human being. These do not.
They ...choose...to be nasty, then ...choose...to not address it, even when they calm down and realise how nasty they have been. They delight in the fact that if they say nothing, they got away with their bad behaviour.

If you do reply and you do not have to, say something short and simple like
"OK, there will be photos taken if you are ever interested in having them down the track". best wishes...

What works for me is to do small rituals such as burning or burying evidence of the pain such as any small gifts or words they have given.

You are allowed to now focus on the wedding you want. Stop and go over everything you decided on and gauge whether it was biased on her needs or yours. Write on your mirror "I am now allowed to have the wedding I want".

Decide in your mind that neither of them are coming. If your sister comes she needs to be told that she "has to behave" and if she cannot make a promise to that then she must not come. If she decides not to come that is okay. You are going to have the wedding you want. These people do not get to mess it up or make it about them. Not any more. They can go arrange a party for themselves if they want attention.

If you need to make the date different so that your nerves can settle go ahead and do that.

Try to remember that rituals will sooth your nerves. You also need reminders of sentences that bring you back to how you need to think. I find that writing on my walls with chalk or sticky notes does it for me. I put them where I will see them regularly and read them.

I know the pain of losing your mother figure. I have replaced that by talking with older women at every opportunity. It works. Between replacing her twisted needs with my own rights and the kindness of healthy older women, even if it's just at a coffee shop or shop, you will begin to see the difference and it will fill the gap in your heart left by toxic mothering.

I wish you all the very best and hope that today you go and get yourself something lovely for your wedding or look up ideas online that make you smile. That's normal for a girl planning her wedding. You do that and really enjoy it.

PS. You are allowed to not want her back in your life. My daughter is the one with BPD in my life. I have decided I don't want her back in my life.
It took a long time to accept, but it started with "I don't know.." Now that I accept it, it's okay with me and anyone who has a judgment on me for thinking that, can sit for 12 hours and listen to the pain she has caused me and the damage it has done to my body and my mind. They can shut up the whole time and trust that I am not exaggerating and then make their judgment on me. Then, after all that, if they still think badly of me, they can just bugger off. Because I know. They don't. You know too. Trusty your self. You know.

PPS If your sister writes back nastily to you, I suggest you block her number. You need to protect yourself and block your mother's number as it is highly likely that she will elevate and cause you more trauma between now and the wedding. Do not allow feelings of guilt for blocking them. You are entitled to some peace from the fear of more rants and you can make a date on your calendar to unblock them. If you find you need to block them regularly over time, it is sensible and reasonable to keep them blocked. It might take you 20 times of blocking them and that is okay. It's a process of learning and unlearning.

Thank you for the helpful suggestions. I blocked my mother before I emailed her because she always sends hurtful text messages. Luckily my sister just responded to me after I told her that I wasn't trying to get her involved in my problems. She said she would come to the wedding. Yesterday she reached out to me and told me that my brother was feeling depressed because of my mother and her mania (he still lives with her). She asked me for therapy resources which I gave her. After years of therapy, I'm usually pretty careful about not being the caregiver anymore. I wish I could confide in my sister like my brother confides in her. She told me that she loves me but left it at that. Hearing that she loves me did help. Maybe it's because I was like a mother figure to her that she doesn't offer support to me when my mother does something mean to me (this isn't the first time this has happened with my sister) but supports my brother (he's the youngest). My older sister (half-sister from my father's side) doesn't like listening to me either even though I'll listen to her when my mother does something mean to her. I told her before that my fiance was overwhelmed with all the people my mom was inviting to the wedding and she just suggested he have a beer ahead of time to relax and let my mom invite people. I've become better at just acknowledging her feelings and not trying to fix her problems. I just feel so alone. My partner doesn't really know how to help me. He suggested that I try not to talk about it because he thought it would be helpful if I didn't think about it. He retracted his statement after I told him that wouldn't work. He tries but he's not very good with emotions. He does give good hugs. I have my best friend to talk to but there's only so much I can put on her.

I tried doing self-care. I ate food, went for a walk, and listened to a funny podcast, then I had a nice long shower. I know this will take time. I really really appreciate having this group to talk to. Keeping my thoughts and emotions inside makes it so much worse for me. Nobody gets it like all of you do.

wmm I think the reaction you are having is so normal.  It would concern me more if you weren't having these feelings.  Anyone who gets the email message you received from your mother would be struggling.  Mother's aren't supposed to send those kinds of messages.  Unfortunately, on this board, we don't have the Hallmark Card Mother we all wish we had.  

The sad lesson in this is that it taught you that your sister doesn't have good boundaries either, or she would not have shared your confidential words to her, with your mother.  That crossed a serious red line, and showed you that you can't trust either of them.

Have you had your shower and gone for your walk yet?  You may or may not hear from your sister.  Don't wait for it.  You will know what she's going to do soon enough.  If she "sides" with your mother, then you know the two of them are enmeshed and entangled and you don't want to be a part of that dysfunction anyways.  I hope she is wiser than that, and supports you.  Either way, get on with your life and what you need to do.

As for your flashback to 8 year old you,  there's probably lots of ways to interpret that.   Pretty traumatic for an 8 year old to witness the good will of your grandmother and the vengeful and "hate" response of your mother to that good will.  There is nothing in that behavior that makes sense.  It would be traumatic, because your mother became mean and unpredictable.  Even worse when she redirected those same feeling to the 8 year old you.  Traumatic.

My interpretation is that you are experiencing these feelings because her behavior DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.  It's not rational.  So it's not possible to understand what is irrational.  So the shock and confusion and horror you are feeling is reasonable.  Of course you don't want to "lose your mom".  But she is an adult and makes her own choices.  Right now, that email may be simply a manipulation to make you go ahead with the wedding SHE wants.  Time will tell.  Meanwhile, allow yourself to accept the sadness and shock of her actions.  That's what they are.  Sad and shocking.  She's not going to change.  Nothing you say or do is going to change her.  An army of professional psychotherapists probably couldn't change her.  

Just allow yourself to feel your grief over her actions.  Temper that pain with gratitude for the support of your fiance, and other positive things in your life.  

Hugs. :hug:

Just read your last post.  So happy to hear your sister replied, and it's positive, at least for now.  Sounds like lots of family dysfunction.  It also sounds like you have taken a lot of smart and important steps over the years, and have also made good decisions, to protect yourself.   |iiii  I know it's hard, and so painful right now, but I think you have a lot to be proud of in how you have handled things, and are currently handling them now.

I was bawling the other night, and my H came into the space and didn't know what to do either.  He's my knight in shining armour.  I told him there was nothing he could do, and that I just had to go through this.  Then I sent him back to my mother who needs 24/7 care right now, and like you, is the big problem in my life.  And I just let myself cry it out.  The next day was better.  Today is another bad day.

Hang in there.  We will get through it.  Just keep feeling thankful for the good things in life - is my motto right now.

Thank you Metheun.

I just saw your post about your mother. That sounds so horrible and exhausting. I'm so sorry you are going through that. Sending you big hugs. Thank you so much for your support!

I just received this email from my mother (she had a bad relationship with her mother). 

"My Dearest First Born Child,

I'm so sorry for the cruel words I uttered to you by email this afternoon. More than anything, I just want to have a relationship with you. I realize I sounded like Granny which is the last thing I would ever want to do to you. Please accept my apology.

Love,

Mom xxoo"

I feel like I'm on an emotional rollercoaster. I'm not sure if I reply or ignore her for now. My automatic thought is if I don't reply she'll get mad at me again. The thing is I realize I shouldn't have to reply just to avoid her getting mad at me. I was thinking I could say that I appreciated her apology but that I needed some time. Should I say this or should I ignore the email? I do need to also remember that she is currently manic (it makes her angrier more easily). That being said, she could have quite possibly written that email even if she wasn't manic. What would you do?

Set yourself an alarm on your phone for a certain number of hours. 6 -8-12. No earlier. I have read it is best to never respond straight away. To train the pwBPD to not expect immediate gratification.

Do not allow your mind to stay on the subject if it comes into your mind.

Then when the alarm goes off, decide if you want to send a response. Keep it short and just the few positive words you thought of to say.

You can even add.." I am taking a break from phone and email communication for 24-48 hours". Then block her for that time. That gives her a heads up that her messages wont get through.

Just some suggestions for you to consider if they would work for you to give. you some headspace.

Well, this is a development.  Bit of a miracle.  However, remember that she can attack you again at any time, so don't be deceived to thinking this is over.  I would doubt that it is.  She still has to explain this to her friends.  Her roller coaster is probably a LOT bigger than yours, and I just can't see the ups and downs being over.  But it is a big step in the right direction. Happy for you about that.


I 120% agree with this.  Under normal circumstances when my mom is living independently, when she texts me, I answer 4+ hours later, or the next day.  Sometimes depending on the text, I don't respond at all.  I almost NEVER reply immediately.  She got used to the delay.  It's healthy to have a delay, as it gives you time to calm, think of the best response, and reflect again before sending.

I'm not in the greatest mindset myself right now, so while normally I might make suggestions for how to respond to her email, tonight I'm not up to it.  Whatever you say, keep it simple and brief.  One to two lines.  No explanations.  Just an acknowledgement.  Send the acknowledgement tomorrow, after you have had a nights sleep, and a bit more time to get that rational brain back in gear.  Get used to not sending immediate replies.

The acknowledgment that she sounds like "Granny" is significant. If there is a way for you to validate that she sees that, it could be healing.

Wait until you have crafted a solid response. Don't rush.

New emails and they're not as nice. I waited and hadn't responded yet. I woke up to four emails. I'm pretty sure she was drunk because a lot of them didn't make sense and had spelling errors. She told me that she was going to come to my house after I finish work. She then retracted that statement in a later email but now I'm worried that she's going to come here. My fiance won't be home until later today. My safe space doesn't feel so safe anymore. This is the shortest email I could find as an example:

"Hi (insert my name),

By now, you will have read my email about the wedding. What you sent us was disgusting and insulting. Please don't contact me anymore in the future until you have done some serious psychological therapy, both you and (fiance's name).

Mom"

What do I do if she comes here? One time when she was manic and angry she tried to punch me. I was able to duck it.

I'm at the point where I want to get a restraining order so that I can feel safe in my home. Am I overreacting? I live in Ontario, Canada. I don't know if I can get one because she hasn't threatened to physically harm me. There is past history of it though

Couple of options.  Don’t go home after work until your fiance can meet you there.  Or, go home, but keep the lights off and don’t answer the door.  Keep it locked.  Or, go home but have a good friend with you.  Do NOT open the door to her if you are alone, or even if you have a friend with you for that matter..  Or, does she have a key to your home?  If yes, start the process of changing the locks.  Under no circumstances should you be alone with her at this time.  If that were to somehow happen, call 911 or the police.  Can you meet a friend for coffee after work or do errands until your fiance texts that he is home?  Or just don’t answer the locked door…and wear earplugs or headphones to stay quiet and relaxed in your safe space.  You’ll get to the other side of this too. 

One thing to help you not personalize this is the content is almost predictable. In the book "Understanding the Borderline Mother" these moods are given characters "Queen, Witch, Waif". While someone can have a predominant mood ( my mother prefers Queen ) when she is angry she goes through all three.

I understand how scary and shocking these emails are. I know, they upset me too. But I have also been able to create a little ( they are our mothers so I know it's scary).

In co-dependency work, they teach us to speak to them through an "I" perspective. This is because "You" does not work with them. If they were able to see their own behavior, it would  but it can't. It doesn't mean we don't address the behavior, but always from an "I" boundary.

They will naturally go to any conflict being "your fault". This is how they process it. You are the problem.

We took a family trip to visit my father's side of the family. We knew she'd feel hurt by this as she'd have preferred we take a trip to visit her. However, we are close to members of that family and my kids wanted to visit their cousins. It wasn't wrong to visit them, it just was that it was them and not her. She also doesn't like my father's family.

When we told her, the response was similar. We were horrible, she won't speak to us again and she will never send the kids presents again. So she kept that up for a couple of weeks. Then one day called asking what they might want for presents. I told her the kids didn't need presents and a card would be appreciated.

When my father was ill, I had to have some boundaries. She got angry at me and enlisted him into it.

Whenever I have a boundary with her, it's predictable. These responses like in your email are manipulations.   My mother controlled us by fear. We did what she wanted because we were afraid of her responses if we didn't. In a sense, she acts like this because it works for her, and we helped to teach her that it works for her. If someone has a way of getting what they want --- they will use what works for them.

Your mother has learned over the years that saying these mean and threatening things to you helps her get what she wants.

She's not going to be motivated to change. This works for her. For any change to happen, it means you need to hold the boundary and not reinforce the behavior. You said no to her wedding plans. No means no.

My mother first starts with Queen and commands me to do something in a stern voice. " I insist you do _______" If that doesn't work, then it's Witch. Witch and Queen are scary. It's "you better do this or else" and then the else is that I am horrible, what I said or did is horrible. Then it's that I must have some kind of problem to have done/said what I did.

If these don't work, then it''s Waif. Waif is the hardest for me because it's so pitiful. What I did has "hurt her terribly" and made her suffer. That's hard because that isn't the kind of person I am. I don't want to hurt anyone. But I will tell you what happens when I give in to Waif. She snaps out of it right away, with a grin once she gets what she wants.

Think of all these emails as manipulations. Your mother is doing this because she wants you to back down on your decision. She wants what she wants. They sound mean and scary because they are- but it's not about you.

I also suggest you don't be alone with your mother at any point. Her wish is to get what she wants. Our mothers know how to do what works for them and they do it because it works. We are also raised to obey them. It's best to avoid being in a vulnerable situation with her. I agree with not going to your home until your fiance is home. Run an errand, go get something to eat. She may not show up but best to not be alone. You will feel safer if you wait till he is home.

and as I write this--- I had to say no to my mother a few weeks ago. She then got cruel- said mean things to me. I didn't call her for a couple weeks, not as a manipulation but because I needed to regain my composure with her. I have learned to not engage with her when I am feeling emotional- because then I am not able to manage the conversation.

So, I get a text from her "I wanted to tell you that I love you"

This is creepy. She doesn't say that to me on a regular basis. A short while ago, I was the worst person on the planet. Now this?

This is also manipulative. Just about anything she tells me is due to something she wants. I may sound cynical, but I know that an "I love you" can become a string of nasty comments later. Is she lying? Maybe she does love me in the moment, but sadly, she doesn't have a stable sense of self love. This is the push pull in action. She pushed too far, I retreated, now she's pulling. I don't intend to go NC with her. Some people choose that. You can choose that too if you wish. It's more that I was more comfortable with LC.

I just can't engage her when I am not on calm ground with her myself.

You may find that you start getting sweet "I love you" or sad messages if you ignore the mean ones.

But it's not about your mother or my mother. Do you see how my posts are more focused on me? If her mean words are too much for me to handle, I take some time to myself. You are naturally upset at the moment. Take some time for yourself and don't engage your mother until you choose to. ( and it's your choice as to when)

This is an helpful. The reason why I'm scared and wanted a restraining order is because she can get violent when she's manic. She's tried to punch me and threw a clay pot at me. She's whipped my brother with a belt. She's hit my dad with pans. I'm afraid for my physical safety based on past experiences.

That makes sense. While my mother is verbally and emotionally cruel and destroys personal property, she does not get physically violent with people in general. She also lives far enough away to not show up, and she's elderly.

I think if there's a history of physical abuse- you have every reason to get a restraining order. It's not that emotional/verbal abuse isn't bad- it is, but my mother isn't capable of harming me or my property. Yours is.

Your mother's situation is different from dealing only with a person with BPD. Adding your mother's bi-polar disorder and alcoholism into the situation makes for high volatility.

With the history of physical violence, you absolutely have to protect both yourself and your fiance until your mother returns to her baseline. If that takes a restraining order, so be it.I

My younger sister is mad at me because I didn't tell my mom in person and my brother, who lives at home, intervened between my mom and dad fighting today. I had a motherly role with her and my brother when they were younger. I stopped doing that after therapy. Now she made me feel guilty. I told her I wasn't her mom or my brother's mom and that she should talk to my dad if she's upset about my brother being left to deal with my mom. I wouldn't have even been there because they were fighting today and I sent the email yesterday. I told my brother he could come stay with me. Now I'm worried that my brother is mad at me too. She was supposed to be my maid of honour. I feel way more upset that she's mad at me than about what my mother said. My mother is mentally ill but my sister isn't. My sister might have my mother over to her house in another city while my mom calms down. I feel so betrayed and alone.

This is familiar to many of us- the person with BPD takes victim perspective and rallies other family members to their side.

It's tough and I am sorry. But whose wedding is this anyway? It's yours and clearly this isn't respecting what you and your fiance want- and it's your wedding.

Many of us have been in your situation. It's sad that this happens. You should not have to feel as if you have done something wrong my choosing how your wedding will be. I hope you can take solace in the people around you who love you unconditionally. You should not have to sacrifice your values in order to be loved and unfortunately that's the message many of us grew up with- to be loved depended on if we pleased BPD mother ( and that included her enablers). What kind of love is that?

I recall having boundaries with my mother and it upset her. My father wrote me in an email "I just want us to be a happy family again" ( ie obey my mother and tolerate her verbal and emotional abuse). Did this consider if I was happy? What person is happy if someone is being abusive to them?

They want you to give in so mother can have her way but it's your wedding.

Families are social systems, and families with a pwBPD develop a system that (unhealthily) allows everyone to function.

When one person in the system decides no longer to participate in the behaviors that have adapted to the pwBPD, the system is disrupted. Multiple members in the family now have to act and respond in a way that is uncomfortable and different. They may want to get the family system back to what it was before, as quickly as possible.

You are seeing this play out with your dad, brother, and sister. Their reactions aren't your "fault." They are responsible for their own emotions and behavior.

 I admire your courage. I know this is so difficult.

I'm a bit calmer today. I saw a car at the back of my house yesterday and I got really nervous and pulled up at another house until they left. It turned out to be the parents of a neighbour. My mom emailed yesterday half apologizing for the night before. She told me she was drunk, which wasn't a good excuse. She said that I still said horrible things to her. I'm reluctant to get the police involved because my brother still lives there and he had to break up an argument between my parents yesterday. He would be the one dealing with her if the police got involved. I also don't want my sister to hate me. Should I tell my mom I need time and not to contact me or come to my place until I am ready or should I just ignore her for now?

Personally, I don't tolerate verbal abuse and I have actually walked away from my BPD mother when she starts that. You have just started setting boundaries with her. The initial response is to escalate the behavior that has worked so far for her. Families have a sort of balance ( even if it is dysfunctional) and when one person changes, other family members attempt to enlist the person back into their role, as it upsets the balance.

A warning is that changing your role can possibly result in being expelled from the family system. I experienced this when I set boundaries, but it was important to me to do that. My children had gotten older and BPD mom had started to enlist them as her emotional caretakers. I did not want this.

She turned several family members to "her side". I didn't go NC with her as she is elderly. It didn't feel right to me. But I keep an emotional distance from her circle.

As to if to ask for time to not speak to her. You can ask this. She may not go along with it and might escalate further but you need to base your decision on YOU. Not what she might do and hold your boundary regardless.

I am dealing with this now. After an episode of "mean ness" from her, I don't want to speak to her- not because of her but that I don't want to get into a conversation with her right now. So then, she sends me the "I love you" text. She doesn't ever say that and I didn't answer because it felt strange to get this and I don't want to reply to that. But it does feel strange to ignore her messages because, it goes against the rules I grew up with which is to comply with her.

she wants a fight..dont give her one..She is calling your names in order to distract from her behaviour.. It is not her wedding... Her paying for it gives her the right in her head to do what she wants..Take up her threat.. as real.. And say "well that's sad you wont come...but this is what we are doing and I don't want you to pay for it.. BPD use emotional black mail and obligation for power..

wmm

Why don't people answer the question that you asked!

I will. Okay, if it will make you feel elevated and hyper-alert to not say anything (ignore her)...then tell her There is to be no contact of any kind before...(you put in a date).

This will give you some headspace for your nerves and adrenal gland to settle.

That is all you write. No explanation, nothing more. But, you are not allowed to respond if she tries to contact you. If you do, this negates what you say. This would give her reason to believe she can still manipulate you.

If she turns up, lock the door and turn the lights off. It doesnt matter if she knows you are home. You are standing by what you say. She will eventually get used to the boundaries you set. You re not allowed to feel guilty about being less than perfectly honest. You do whatever it takes to make your stated boundary stick. You have set a date for contact...you stick to it.

When the date is over...the next day...You write something very simple , about yourself, not her, such as "I have had the break I need. Love ..." That's it.

Basically, you have to learn to go against your loving nature. This human will destroy you if you do not learn to do this and you can do it. It will take practise and it wont mean you are a bad person or an a##hole. It will make you stronger against the worst kind of human being, a mother who puts herself before her child. You can do it. Practise, practise, practise.

On the days you have to recuperate you have to do lots of looking after yourself. Your favourite foods, your favourite shows, early shower, comfy Jamies, a glass of wine. No pondering about her or your sister.  OK?

I sorry I late to this thread but between her "Dearest Firstborn Child" email and this:


Did you respond, or was that just her responding to what she later changed her view towards you as an imagined insult?

I think people did answer with two choices- email her back to not contact her or to ignore it. Both are choices- depending on one's comfort level with either.


Basically, you have to learn to go against your loving nature.

This is an important statement. It does feel against our nature to have a firm boundary with, or ignore a parent. So how do we approach this while remaining true to who we are?

By reframing what actions are loving. Loving is not the same as appeasing and pleasing, or enabling.

One example is a small child wants cookies before dinner. The loving act is to say no because you want them to eat healthy food. Saying no might result in the child having a tantrum. They aren't happy in the moment. It would make them happy in the moment if you gave in and let them eat cookies, but to love them, and want what is best for them requires you say no.

Allowing our parents to be abusive is enabling them to be abusive. This isn't an act of love to enable someone to behave badly. This teaches them to be abusive- because they can be abusive and get what they want. Loving someone can require a boundary. They may not like it,  but it's more loving to not tolerate abusive behavior.

One aspect of "our loving nature" is that we weren't taught to include ourselves in that love. It's not loving to you to tolerate abuse. It is self love to not tolerate it.

I just have to comment on the beautifully articulated previous post  from NotWendy.  This message, I believe, is at the crux of it, not just for Wmm, but for all of us who have a pwBPD in our lives.  It’s  easy to loose sight of, whilst in the eye of the storm,  but so important it’s  the kind of thing we could print off and stick on the wall as a daily reminder..   

Without boundaries, there is tyranny.  Within boundaries, love and respect can be nurtured, if other conditions are also right.  With the pwBPD, other  conditions aren’t exactly right, so nurturing true love and respect might not be possible, making the need for boundaries so much more important to avoid the bullying, abuse, tyranny.  By having and respecting our own boundaries, we are practicing self love.  I think that to experience a deeper love for others, we have to also be able to love and respect ourselves. 

NotWendy’s example of setting a boundary for a child touched me.  We all know children need to be taught things, and be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them.  Our BPD parents have the emotional skin of a child but in an adult body.

It feels “off” (horrible) to have to set a boundary with a parent.  But it’s still the right thing  to do, as long as we do it with kindness, and not in a fit of rage.  The parent will respond as the child does ( with a tantrum but also with intent to hurt and manipulate ) to bring about the result they want. It is indeed hard to go against our loving  nature. 

The only way a child learns not to have a tantrum if they want a candy or a toy in the store, is if the tantrum never brings them the result they want. 

Notwendy, your point about reframing what actions are loving, is heard.  :love-it:

I haven't responded to my mom at all. I have chosen to have no contact for now while she calms down and to keep myself have space.

I got into an argument with my younger sister yesterday because she defended my mom to my dad even though she only knew my mom's side of the story. She already got upset with me for telling my mom via email instead of in person. The day after I emailed my mom my parents for in a big fight and my brother intervened. My sister was upset that my brother had to deal with it. My parents had already been fighting before I told my mom I was cancelling the wedding. I told my sister I wasn't her mother or my brother's mother and that she should talk to my parents about fighting if she was upset about it. Yesterday after I called her out for getting involved and defending my mom I told her that she was enmeshed with my mom and she got upset and said she wasn't going to talk to me. She said that at least she knew she had problems. I asked her what she meant but she just said she didn't want to talk to me. I'm more upset with her because she's not mentally ill. I don't know what to do about it. I'm sure she's talking badly about me to my mom.

You have changed your wedding plans and now are trying to figure out how to deal with the reactions of family members. In a healthy family, the members respond by sharing their feelings while taking into consideration how what they do will affect others instead of reacting which is literally responding with volatile hurtful emotions with no empathy for the recipient of the convoluted messages they are trying to send. It is important to let everyone involved take responsibility for their own feelings and not allow yourself to be the dumping grounds for their dysregulated emotions. Provide no or little information about how you are feeling to the people you know really don't care about your feelings.

Thanks for the kind words. I am glad they are helpful.

I will reiterate Zachira's comments. Entire family dynamics can be dysfunctional even if other family members are not mentally ill. The dysfunctional dynamics serve to keep a sort of balance in a family, with each person doing their part. When one person in the family doesn't go along with their expected role, all the family members might feel an unbalance and try to get the person back into their role. Sometimes they might expel the family member.

One example if disordered dynamics is the Karpman triangle. Your mother has taken victim perspective ( that seems to be a default role for someone with BPD from my observations. You can see the potential triangles. ( there are several in my family too).

Your parents have an argument. Your mother is victim, father the persecutor, sister steps in as rescuer.

You cancel the wedding ( persecutor), mother is victim, sister steps in as rescuer.

Here is the problem when you share your feelings and wish for understanding. You then potentially are the one who has been slighted or hurt. That means your mother can't be victim here. She has to be victim. Victim isn't responsible for anything they may have done. One doesn't blame the victim. So you can't have understanding because if so, then victim can't be victim.

If I share any hurt feelings with my mother, she gets especially mean because it's expecting understanding from the victim.

Your sister seems to tend towards rescuer for mom, not you.

Best to avoid the triangles.

My sister said she needed space from all family members and I gave her space. She then reached out and apologized for unfollowing me on Instagram (I didn't even realize it until her apology). I wasn't upset with her for doing that. I did tell her that I had felt upset because it seemed like she took my mom's side without even talking to me. I told her that I respected her need for space and gave it to her until she reached out to me again. She messaged me on Instagram with a funny video, which I responded to, but she still hasn't requested to follow me and I'm not going to push it.

I talked to my older sister and her mom (she's a half-sister) over the weekend and told them about everything that had happened. It felt good to have a family member to talk to and have them empathize with me. My old sister has been on the receiving end of my mom's cruelty. They suggest that my partner and I get married without my family and just have two witnesses (it's required by law to have two witnesses where I live). She suggested that I don't tell my family until after I'm already married to avoid the drama beforehand. I liked this suggestion and had thought about it before as an option. The problem is that I'm worried most of my family will be mad at me if I do this. What I've learned though, is that I need to do what's best for myself and my partner, not what's best for others. I bought a pretty and simple white dress and my partner will wear a dress shirt and dress pants because he doesn't own a suit and can't afford one right now. If we have my mother at the ceremony she could end up having a fit over nothing and I would feel nervous the whole time. Should I tell my family beforehand or afterwards?

I still haven't talked to my mother. She hasn't emailed me in a while. I've enjoyed the quiet and calm. My dad said that she is still manic and that her doctor has upped her medication again. To be honest, I don't want to talk to my mother. Even if we patch things up, at some point she will freak out at me again, just like she always does. The problem is that this will make it hard for me to stay in touch with most of my family. At the moment I'm willing to make this sacrifice. The peace of mind that I've had not having to talk to my mom lately has been really helpful. I still have her blocked on my phone (she doesn't know this). What do you think I should do?

So wonderful that you do have a sister and other family you can talk to. I think you are trying to sort out what you wish you could do and the things you are going to have to do to avoid the worst of being targeted by your mother with her anger about not being in control of your wedding.