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Title: I need support please-boundaries versus cutting off Post by: AnaisNin on December 03, 2021, 09:08:15 PM Does setting boundaries sometimes mean cutting someone off or changing the relationship to be more what you can handle? My mom definitely has a MI- I have always thought she has BPD. I have had years of therapy talking about our relationship. For a long time, I was living far away so it was easier to handle her- I only saw her twice a year for short periods. Now I'm living in the same town. I have recently caught her out in lying to me about a fairly big matter. She not only lies, but develops stories which aren't true, then lies some more. She name calls and puts me down. I have had enough and tonight I attempted to re-establish some boundaries. I told her that lying to me is not ok, I told her I no longer trust her, I told her I question her judgement when it comes to my child's safety. I told her that if she needs me for any emergencies, such as medical, or needing rides to appointments i can help her. I asked her again to please not just "drop by" because I value privacy. I said it would be better if we have set dates for her to come over. I also thanked her for babysitting, but let her know that I wouldn't need her this month. I tried to make plans for Christmas so she can see her grandchild.
She didn't react too well to this. She name called again, and started trying to bring all sorts of other things into the conversation. She accused me of not liking her, she accused me of punishing her by not allowing her to babysit. I calmly repeated that I wasn't cutting her off from my child, but I would feel more comfortable if we could have set times and I was around. Then she told me she would never talk to me again, and she won't be asking me to bring her to appointments. She said she was moving and we just wouldn't see her ever again unless we cave to her terms. did i do too much at once?I don't feel I was too harsh, but does anyone else feel uncomfortable in being firm in what you will or will not tolerate anymore? I feel like I need lots of help in this area. The truth is, I don't like my mom. I do love her and I feel obligated to help her with medical appointments, and I don't mind if she wants to spend major holidays with my child and me, but I've given up years ago on having any sort of healthy relationship with her. I wouldn't be heartbroken if she really did move away. Title: Re: I need support please-boundaries versus cutting off Post by: HappyChappy on December 04, 2021, 04:49:17 AM She not only lies, but develops stories which aren't true, then lies some more. She name calls and puts me down. I have had enough and tonight I attempted to re-establish some boundaries. I told her that lying to me is not ok, I told her I no longer trust her Given your mothers behaviour, setting boundaries and reassuring her this won’t lead to abandonment was absolutely the right thing to do. Her violent pushback is typical BPD behaviour, as it makes you question yourself (hence you being on here). You just need to stick to your guns, but try using J.A.D.E. i.e. NEVER Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain. BPDs require information to weave convincing false stories and gas light effectively. Also it allows her to keep the argument going and wear you down.I feel like I need lots of help in this area. The truth is, I don't like my mom. I do love her and I feel obligated to help her with medical appointments. You sound remarkable aware of what’s going on, and of course you need and deserve support. A BPD has the “warrior gene” they’re the ultimate emotional fighter. They use semi-automatics on children, that's why over 100K have joined this site - we are the French resistance to the controling BPD warier gene. Viva le revolution ! lol :(A BPD will work F.O.G. Fear Obligation and Guilt. But you must always remember you can’t help your mother unless you help yourself first. On an airplane they say put your oxygen mask on before helping your BPD mother with hers – same principle which is why if it does get too much you must go low or even no contact. But do this politely and reassure her it’s just whilst you regain your own health – again she will push hard, but that’s not your problem. If you let FOG get to you, then that is your problem. You are doing the right thing, I'm very impressed, but your BPD will throw everything at you until she sees she can't unsettle you or get around your boundaries. Get ready to be bombarded, but it should eventually die down if you hold strong and remain reasonable and level headed. If you start dysregulating and are always being triggered (which is only human) then use low to no contact - but make sure your BPD knows this is not abandonment and just temporary until she can respect boundaries. Don't admit to weakness (if you can) as a BPD attacks weakness. On an airplain they say put your own gas mask on first before attending to the child (i.e. BPD). You must priorities your own health, despite being taught by your BPD mum to always priorities her - so that might be difficult to learn. BPD behaviour is an alient concept to many, hence why this foum helps, but I also found talking therapies helpful (CBT) most therapies are familiar with BPD like behaviour and its effects. Your doing well, keep it up, but don't do this on your own. :hug: Title: Re: I need support please-boundaries versus cutting off Post by: RollerMom75 on December 04, 2021, 09:54:41 AM Thanks for that response. That was a supportive read. I absolutely do feel like I need to regain my own health. There’s so much drama right now and I crave ✌️ ❤️ and harmony. I like what you said about stating this is not abandonment, however I need to focus on my own health right now. I’ve definitely noticed that during a conflict she throws all sorts of stuff at me and I need to be better at no JADE. Ideally my goal is to be able to be firm but loving and then not question myself afterwards and not ruminate on the drama. Thanks
Title: Re: I need support please-boundaries versus cutting off Post by: Methuen on December 06, 2021, 07:52:39 PM I have recently caught her out in lying to me about a fairly big matter. She not only lies, but develops stories which aren't true, then lies some more. So for me, a thing I had to learn was that my reality and mom's reality were NOT the same reality. Remember that they have distorted thinking. She isn't ever going to see things the same way you do. Excerpt She name calls and puts me down. I have had enough and tonight I attempted to re-establish some boundaries. Remember that when you set a boundary, the boundary is for you. Not for her. So for example, if you don't want her to "drop by", a boundary could be something like: "I like it when people call to arrange a mutually agreeable time to meet before coming over. It lets me plan, and doesn't catch me by surprise when I am busy. I would appreciate you calling first before you come, so we can arrange a mutually agreeable time for you to visit." This states an expectation. It sets a boundary. By using "I", it's not blaming or confrontational. It doesn't overtly say they've done anything wrong. In that way, it's positive communication, versus being "negative" communication (which is more blaming and confrontational). She's not used to calling first. And "setting this boundary" is only the first step. She's going to break the boundary, the same way children break boundaries. So the next step is to enforce the boundary. The next time she comes over without calling first, you have options. You can pretend you aren't home and not answer the door. You can grab your bag and keys and say you were just heading out to an appointment and you can't visit right now. Or you can say you are busy with ______ and can't visit right now, could she come back on _______ (day and time), and then negotiate the time. The last step is when she says "oh this'll only take a minute" and tries to weasel her way into your house, you stand firm and say something like "it's not possible for me to visit right now mom. But let's set up a mutally agreeable time together". If she says "...but..." you repeat "no mom, not now". Keep your voice calm. Avoid all emotion in your voice, as she will immediately pick up on that, and it will escalate. This way, you are holding your boundary for YOU. So boundaries are not rules for her. They are guidelines you hold for your own well being, if that makes sense. I told her that lying to me is not ok, I told her I no longer trust her, I told her I question her judgement when it comes to my child's safety. I told her that if she needs me for any emergencies, such as medical, or needing rides to appointments i can help her. I asked her again to please not just "drop by" because I value privacy. I said it would be better if we have set dates for her to come over. I also thanked her for babysitting, but let her know that I wouldn't need her this month. I tried to make plans for Christmas so she can see her grandchild. So the thing about this, is that she probably doesn't think she lied. So telling her she lied will seem unfairly judgemental to her. She will feel wronged, because "she never lied". Trying to explain to her WHY she lied (explain is the E in JADE) will only make it worse, and the whole conversation will blow up on you. It will always be your fault. She will accuse you of wrongfully attacking her. Remember her view of reality and yours will be different. Different strategies of communication are needed with pwBPD. She didn't react too well to this. This is predictable, but don't worry about it AinaisNin. Something I read on this site when I first landed here, was that we have to learn how to stop making it worse, before it can better. This resonated with me. I knew my mother was never going to change, and I was the one who had to do all the changing. It's not fair. But it is what it is. I feel like I need lots of help in this area. The truth is, I don't like my mom. I do love her and I feel obligated to help her with medical appointments, and I don't mind if she wants to spend major holidays with my child and me, but I've given up years ago on having any sort of healthy relationship with her. I wouldn't be heartbroken if she really did move away. I can soo relate to this. I love my mom too, but it's a very complicated love. If she wasn't my mom, I would not chose to have her in my life. My mom is 85, elderly, has a litany of complicated health problems, lives alone independently because she refuses assisted living, but isn't capable of living independently any longer. I am an only child and the only family. The obligation is intense. I never get a break. She has been mean and cruel to me. She has FOGed me my whole life (I am almost 60), and she trained me as a tiny child to be her caretaker. This site helped me learn how to set boundaries, which means she has to find other ways of having her needs met if they are outside my boundaries. This is getting hard to impossible for her because her needs are so great. There is always a new crisis. It is only time until the ultimate crises comes when the medical system has to tell her she can no longer live independently. I can not be the one to tell her that. She has to learn this the hard way through the consequences of her own actions and decisions. It is gut wrenching for me. But it is the only way.It has been a journey for me since I came to this site. The journey is ongoing. It never ends. I have heard from a few sources, that even after they pass "it doesn't go away". Be patient with yourself. I like to think "we don't make mistakes" in our interactions with them, but rather we can reflect and learn, practice and improve, try again, and just keep reflecting and learning and trying when it comes to using new strategies of communication. Sometimes we're not going to get it right, because we are learning new strategies. The important thing is that we don't give up and fall into the trap of just blaming them for all the chaos and conflict. We just haven't had the opportunity to learn the appropriate tools for managing the relationship earlier, so learning them now takes time and practice. The learning curve is huge, and it's a process. But things can get better if we keep trying, and don't expect our mom to be the one that changes. They have a disease, and we can't change their disease. We can only change how we respond to it. Title: Re: I need support please-boundaries versus cutting off Post by: beatricex on December 06, 2021, 09:22:50 PM Hi AnaisNin,
Maybe this is just me, but I don't feel it's my job to protect my BPD mother from feelings of abandonment. My job is to protect me. If I had a child with BPD, then sure. I would consider it. I haven't read any of the fancy books about how to deal with a person with BPD, but I have been dealing with my own mother for about 50 years. So, I can't buy into I gotta read a book to tell me what to do. Cause I know what to do. Protect me. I apply the same principles regardless of the relationship (spouse, parent, neighbor, friend, etc). What do I value? I try to get clear on that. Do I value someone telling me the truth? Do I value someone not giving me advice unless I specifically ask for it? Do I value not being controlled, manipulated or otherwise used as some sad puppet in a play I'm not directing, they are? Yes I do, I value all of that. I think once you get clear on your own values, it will direct you on what you're willing to tolerate. This helped me, anyway. As far as setting boundaries versus cutting off. I read a book when I was faced with the same decision called "Divorcing a Parent." Then I did so with the help of my therapist. Incredibly hard, but it was the best decision I ever made in my life. Some relationships are so toxic that the choice is not really a choice at all, it's a decision you make and try not to look back. A given is that maybe in time the parent will come around, mellow with age, stop being so toxic...and you can resume a relationship later. I did also come back to my parents, and now I'm resuming no contact again. Just allowing for the option, if that is what you decide. b Title: Re: I need support please-boundaries versus cutting off Post by: Turkish on December 06, 2021, 09:57:22 PM Excerpt I told her I question her judgement when it comes to my child's safety What happened that you feel this way? Title: Re: I need support please-boundaries versus cutting off Post by: Couscous on December 07, 2021, 12:07:07 AM I started off gradually reducing contact with my mother, who lives abroad. It's now been a year and four months since I went low contact and informed her that I needed to institute a communication hiatus, with exceptions for birthday calls with my two sons, since I didn't want to cut her off from them. I immediately noticed the positive impact the lack of contact with her had on my life.
The first birthday call was three months into the hiatus, and the second was six months later. After each birthday call I would have an emotional hangover. Then she got Covid a year into the hiatus, so I felt obliged to call her. Well, that was a BIG mistake and sure enough I got hooked back into some drama, until I realized that I had fallen into a trap. I let her know that I was reinstating the hiatus. Since then she had another birthday call with my son, but since she was only interested in getting information about which relatives we had invited to his birthday party, I think I am going to be putting an end to the birthday calls too. I am sorry to say that she has absolutely nothing positive to contribute to my children's lives, and she only sees them as potential future allies. Similar to what beatricex said, I think that I am now finally at the point that I care more about protecting myself and my children, than I do about protecting her. |