BPDFamily.com

I need some help. Just writing this shows me how complicated this connection is and that I am still not fully detached.

From what I have read, communications with an expwBPD will most likely be a downward spiral. Yet here I am. There is/was still a glimmer of hope that my Ex is capable of a mature conversation about our relationship and can be compassionate. Or that there will be some benefit in speaking my truth regardless of his response.

I felt like I had had no voice and wasn't even a participant in the the break up that happened a month or so ago… as we never had a conversation (it was communicated in text) and then I felt stonewalled.

My ex recently reached out, apologizing and said he is open to hearing me. He seems incredibly nervous / agitated around any discussion about "why the break up"… and he said he already shared why so many times and it was SO HARD for him he won't say why again. Yet I never heard him communicate any reason or explanation for his decision, so this is just so weird to me. It is like we are in two different realities.

Getting clarity on that front seems unlikely.

I do feel to communicate and express my boundaries and how I felt disrespected.

My ex said he would like there to be good feelings between us and hoped for some repair (neither of us want to get back in the relationship). With how things were left, I do not feel good feelings towards him and would like to.

Has anyone gotten any clarity, closure, or an amicable scenario after a break up? How?

If I don't respond, and give voice to my experience and needs, I am concerned I will regret this, and feel as if my ex controlled the narrative of the break up (he made a lot of assumptions about how I felt and thought) and I'd feel like I just let him walk all over me without speaking for myself. If I do respond and he is unkind, I am concerned I may end up feeling more hurt and disrespected and create more pain for us both. If I don't saying anything at all, it feels like I was silenced by his control…  I feel powerless.

I have done really good at NC and don't see us re establishing a connection even if I do respond. Neither way feels like a win.

Any experiences or suggestions on this are most appreciated. I just don't know...

I don't think he's lying when he says talking about break up is hard for him. Maybe that's the most honest answer you'll ever get from him. It's really uncomfortable for them to talk about their darker side. It's like there's just too much pus under that scab, they are afraid to scratch it. They might become defensive or angry if you make them do that, and that's how they'll see it.

If you can feel empathy for him at all, and for yourself too, you could just let him go.

I think that naturally time and distance will help here. My ex called me financially, emotionally and physically abusive towards her when we split up - fast forward to eight years later - I moved into my current place a few months ago and my family hadn’t seen us together in a long time and they commented that we were civil to each other. My family was helping me move and my ex dropped off a couple of the kids on her time so that they could see the new place.

That being said, is it something that can wait until you can put some of this behind you and self reflect and heal? You’re not interested in getting back together and if you feel like there’s a chance that you want to keep in touch in the future it’s something that you can strive for but for not focusing on your needs and sorted out your feelings might take precedence.

Hi there,

Before I answer - just two quick questions for context

How long were you together?
Did you live together and/or have children together?

I ask because answer your question about closure will have as much to do with context as it will to do with the actual relationship dynamics. As you have noticed, I am sure, pwBPD don't process emotions into thoughts in the same way. So their environment will have a perhaps greater impact on their feelings than it might for you.

Rev

Thanks Biggus. This helps me understand why their is such a big avoidance/defense around the topic… even without me mentioning it. I do feel more empathy…

Thanks for this Mutt.
It can wait… I have resisted communicating for the last month or so in order to reflect and heal a bit. There are still a bit of emotions to sort through… 

We were together for 5 months. We did stay together for 2 months of that time. No kids or material entanglement though.

The relationship felt solid, mature, and with open communication. He broke up at 4 months with no explanation (while he was visiting his parents) and then was super remorseful, expressing that he felt confused and lost. I noticed his mood changed while he stayed with his parents (he is caring for them as they are in their 80's).  The break up was such a shock to me and I didn't understand it.  We got back together after a week (before I had any idea about BPD). And he didn't want to talk about the break up then.. but he said he felt awful about it.  He wanted to "make it up to me" with a trip. That trip and the relationship ended as he returned to his parents.

Hi Rev,

We were together for 5 months. We did stay together for 2 months of that time. No kids or material entanglement though.

The relationship felt solid, mature, and with open communication until he broke up at 4 months with no explanation (while he was visiting his parents). Became like a different person.  After he was super remorseful, expressing that he felt confused and lost. I noticed his mood changed while he stayed with his parents (he is caring for them as they are in their 80's).  The break up was such a shock to me and I didn't understand it.  We got back together after a week (before I had any idea about BPD). And he didn't want to talk about the break up then.. but he said he felt awful about it.  He wanted to "make it up to me" with a trip. That trip ended with him returning to his parents and we haven't spoken since. 

So that kind of push - pull, hard about face is pretty typical of people who have mood disorders. They live in a world of what I call feelings based facts.   

Finding any kind of closure is difficult (impossible?) with people in that situation. It doesn't sound as if there is a lot of lived experience upon which you two can dialogue.

Please try and understand this - the longer you can resist trying to understand what is not there, the more you will reprogram your thoughts and see this relationship for what is was and wasn't. Eventually you'll find the space to move on.

Hope that helps.

If I can think of anything else, I'll write back.

Reach out any time.

Hang in there.

Rev

Hi again,

Something just popped into my head that I hear often, including in my own story.

Generally, the closure you will get is the closure that you decide to give yourself. You will likely get little from your ex because they literally can't sit still long enough to even figure out what closure looks like.

Likely he's out looking for the next person to feed his emotional needs, which I would suspect are insatiable.

Rev

This sounds like exactly my experience - no warning, no discussion, just...over. Unfortunately it seems like when a pwBPD is done with a relationship then its done. They are lead by their emotions and there really is nothing you could have done to change it.

A week and a half after he dumped me we went to dinner to talk. I was trying to share my feelings and all he could do is tense up and say "this is soo hard". I could visibly see how he was upset and would have run if he could have. Its all about their emotions.

Sort of but ultimately not really.
After the initial discard (a year ago yesterday!), we agreed to remain friends. He was dating someone else but we still kept in contact periodically. I did ask him at one point why he broke up with me and he said it was the "kid thing" (I was 46 and he wants more kids - but we never even had this discussion, I made an offhand comment and it caused his split). It got longer and longer between check ins and then one day after a month of not hearing from him I got a text that he had dumped his girlfriend. We started talking almost daily again. Me, being the good codependent that I am, basically became his therapist for him to talk about his breakup. This was also when he confided in me that he thought he had BPD. We ended up in bed a couple times. Eventually, I tried to confront him about how I was feeling used and he froze up and completely discarded me - stopped responding to me, refused to communicate. Just...done. That was July 24th and I found this forum the same day. We were no contact for 3 1/2 months then he reached out again. I won't go into detail but we once again said we would be friends, once again ended up in bed, once again I was feeling used...the cycle continues. The biggest difference is that this time I am taking control, I am the one pulling away and holding him at a distance and learning to set boundaries. I stopped sleeping with him, which wasn't hard because I'm pretty sure he's seeing someone, though he hasn't admitted it to me. I am trying to keep our conversations at a friendship level - no more playing therapist. I am also struggling with my own mental health so I have turned my focus to myself.

So, yes, we are talking. In that way its amicable. I really, truly do want to remain friends - we were friends first and have a ton in common, its just when romance enters the picture that it doesn't work. I don't know that this is the case with most people on this forum. And I acknowledge its not perfect and that I would likely be better off just letting him go completely, I am still working to understand why its so important to me to hold onto a friendship with him. Frankly I think it has a lot to do with my own abandonment/rejection issues.

Clarity, for me, came from learning and understanding BPD. And acknowledging that I will never understand how his brain works. And being completely honest with myself about what I needed from a relationship and the fact that I would never get it from him, no matter how much I hoped I would.

Closure?  Well, I'm not there yet. I am learning radical acceptance though.

The 3 1/2 months I was no contact with my ex was  hard - but I realized that it didn't matter if I couldn't tell him how I felt. For one, pwBPD tend to have a narrative in their own head and they base it on their emotions, not what actually happened. So telling him my perspective wouldn't have made a difference to him (side note, I actually confirmed this when he reached out after our period of NC - we did have a discussion about the discard and as suspected he rewrote the narrative in his head to make himself the good guy. He convinced himself he was doing me a favor my not contacting me, and yes he used those words. We ended that discussion on a stalemate, nothing I could say would convince him differently so I dropped it because frankly it wasn't worth it for me to continue to get myself upset when he had his mind set - there is literally nothing I can do to change that.)

I think you need to look at it a little differently - you say you feel silenced by his control. It might be better to think of it as it is not worth the effort to try and convince him of something he will almost certainly never believe. He has his narrative set - you won't change that. Save yourself the heartache.

This is a good insight - you don't se yourself reestablishing connection - so why put yourself through the pain? I know from experience that connecting reopens old wounds and you just have to work to re-heal them.
I know you want closure but in the case of a pwBPD you really have to just give yourself closure. There are a lot of websites with advice for doing just that but here is some advice I think is helpful:

Let your emotions flow without shame or judgment. When you’re feeling rejected or hurting after a breakup, so many feelings can come rushing to the surface. You can’t stop wondering what you did wrong and it seems like no one else will ever make you feel the way they did. It’s okay to feel however you feel. Missing them, being angry or emotionally devastated, all of that is normal. Being true to your emotions instead of burying them will allow you to healthily process them.

Write a letter to them you will never send. Writing down your thoughts and feelings about the situation can be a great way to process it, grieve, and gain a sense of freedom. Write down all the things you’re mad at them for as well as things you wish to make amends for. Write down anything you wish you could say to them. Forgive them for what you can and end the letter with a sincere goodbye. Read the letter aloud to yourself, then tear it up or delete it once you’re done. This will ensure you don’t send it or obsess over it over and over.

You will never get closure from them because they don't know themselves why they are breaking up with you, or they understand that they don't have reasons to end a relationship other than the fears they have carried since their childhood. Mine was never able to articulate why other than saying, "Go ask your freinds." When I pressed her she simply said, "You have behaviors that I don't want in a lifetime partner." "Lol, ok," I think now. It would be laughable if the pain nons feel weren't so extreme, or if the past abuse pwBPD have experienced weren't so devastating to them. The best closure you can get is to recognize that people with BPD have much different ways of thinking than we do about love, and that they are not good people to be in a relationship with. Their "love" is based on what they need, not on real love. The second they first devalue you, the process won't stop until they call it quits. It's pitiful, really. Emotionally, they are children.

The pain is real now. Go through the grieving process. The worst thing you can hear, that I heard, was, "In time you will get better." I hated hearing that, but it's true. You DO NOT want to be in a relationship with these people until they help themselves, and then it's still a big if.

I can relate to much of this. Our breakup was over two years ago, it happened gradually, gradually, gradually and then, suddenly. Like they say how person goes bankrupt.

For months there was distancing, put-downs, short temper, leaving me out of things, no communication, not responding to texts or calls, then leaving over Christmas to her family's place without either inviting me, talking to me for days, or telling me, just left. Didn't hear from her for nearly a week, then she called and I texted her that I was not up for talking to her that night. She never responded to that text, and I was in complete f**k this mode. I didn't hear from her for three weeks, then she dumped me over the phone with massive amounts of blaming, shaming, denial, invalidation, yelling, name calling, put downs, refusal to hear anything at all that I was saying about my experience.

So there's your downward spiral. Strange things start happening, you try to understand them, ask about them and they get denied or you are made to be the problem, so you don't ask anymore to avoid the anger and yelling, more strange (rude, disrespectful) things happen, you say nothing and try to keep the person calm and happy.

On several occasions, I tried to have a mature respectful conversation about her yelling, her going days without responding to my calls or texts...always, always, ended in her getting very angry and then launching into attacks on me. In our last conversation, I told her that my experience was that she stopped communicating with me, didn't answer texts or calls, ignored a lunch invitation (by phone and text), humiliated me in front of her family, then left town without a word. My experience. Her response "you knew where I was".

I have hoped, uselessly it turns out, that she would call or email and apologize for her behavior and language, for all the put downs and distancing, for ditching me over the holidays. My goodness, she told me she loved me a week before Christmas. Intermittent reinforcement.

It hurts, hurts, to have her not care enough about us, the two years we spent together, the relationship I built with her family and son (they loved me, I so enjoyed being with them, and mentoring and interacting with her son), to even end things in a civil way. I KNOW she has a story she believes, and is telling that to her family and friends, and I can't do anything about it.

No clarity, no closure, no acknowledgement of anything. Just gone, over the phone.

So, like the rest of us, we need to create the closure ourselves. It's very hard, especially for someone who put their whole heart and spirit into this relationship and person.

I tell myself the truth, over and over again. I remind myself that I never yelled at her or even raised my voice (I'm not that type of person), I was always kind and respectful to her, supportive and available. If she can't see that- and I don't think she can- I need to keep saying that to myself.

Yes in my experience that is very much what is going on - we exist in two different realities. It’s for that reason you will most likely never get closure. My pwBPD knows he has it but is in denial as to his BPD behaviours and if he acknowledges them at all he blames them on something I or someone else did/said. The best I can figure is that they actually have 2 different realities going on in their head - when things are good they are awesome and they live in the “real reality” because it’s awesome, but the other reality - the one where they are at fault for anything - is constantly being covered up and their behaviours made excuses for because they want to be the person they think they are in their own head. I think this is the reason for the sudden splits in BPD. It was certainly true in my relationship and probably would have resulted in our breaking up had I not held the tiger by the tail (for some unknown reason because that isn’t normally me). Basically everything is great until something happens that makes them think that you no longer think of them as perfect (or as the way they are trying to portray themselves to the world). Once their “cover is blown” so to speak (or they think it has been), they leave to find someone else that doesn’t know the real them. They find all sorts of “reasons” why the relationship couldn’t possibly work but I think down deep the real reason is they think their partner knows the real them and how could anyone possibly love the real them? And you could tell them until you’re blue in the face that you love them no matter what but if they don’t believe it themselves then you’ll never convince them. I mean I could be wrong but this has been my experience and from reading similar experiences on this board. I think that’s about all the closure you’re ever going to get. I’m sorry this happened to you.

Interesting angle Seeleygirl. Mine told someone else, but not me directly (she forwarded the conversation and this was part of it) "I'm not able to be vulnerable and it causes problems in my interpersonal relationships" And she once said to me that "you put up with me".

This was her explaining what she calls cPTSD behaviors, she regularly said she had cPTSD, although many of you here might know it's nearly indistinguishable, even by professionals, from BPD.

And I think you are right about the shame. She always reacted very strongly when I would lovingly point out something hurtful or confusing in her behavior. Or even if I said 'No' to something- like sex, just once in two years because I was really tired, it was late, and I had to be up at 5am, an hour long 'fight' happened? I can't even remember what is was about? How can that cause a fight? It was probably you don't love me, you make me feel rejected...I don't even know.

 Or no to a week long trip to Mexico (I owned a business, many classes there per week, couldn't get them all covered with all my instructors), 3 hour blow up, name-calling (PLEASE READ (https://bpdfamily.com/safe-site.htm)ty businessman, etc). She had rejected my offers for a shorter alternative trip that I could manage ("don't you dare suggest something else"). Or, when you don't return my texts or calls for days or even a week, it really is feels hurtful and dehumanizing- 1 hour angry blow up in store, storming out.

I really think much of this has to do with being confronted with their own behavior, even if you do it with kindness and love and calmly. I just couldn't figure out a way to be heard.

Thanks Rev,

That expression  :) I like it. Keeps my mind off of trying to figure out what is not there.
The more space I feel, the more I clearly I can see, as you said, what the relationship was and wasn't .  Need space and distance for clarity… 

I appreciate your support and care.

El

Hearing this really puts some things in perspective… before the break up, I had written an email (that I didn't send) about how I felt when he prioritized his feelings… and that I need to know my feelings mattered… Sometimes it seemed they did, but other times, and ultimately- they did not.


I can relate… and see how the desire for a friendship or amicable connection could go this way for me too… and I could end up feeling used. Good for you for setting boundaries, creating distance, and focusing on you. I love (and miss) my ex's sense of humor… I have never laughed so much with anyone in my life. A part of me would love to be able to be friends…. although I have to ask, why would I want to be friends with anyone that I could feel so hurt and disrepected by? I know I deserve better. I agree, that desire to hold onto a friendship comes from abandonment/rejections issues. Focusing on those too.


This resonates, thanks for sharing this. I can see how my ex rewrote the narrative too, to make himself the good guy. That's part of the hook for me.. that I want to share my experience. From what you've shared, it sounds like empathy would be in short supply and it's unlikely there would be any listening.. that is the hard part though.. assuming there will be no listening without finding out.
 

Thank you. Yes, what is the point? This is really something I need to reflect on. Why would I want to risk more heart ache? I know part of it is that I am not accepting that his narrative is set… I want to believe there is empathy there… It's like I can read about others experiences and about BPD, but a part of me hasn't fully accepted that as truth…. I have written letters I didn't send, grieved, and am more and more shifting the lens to me.

Radical Acceptance sounds powerful and good. Clarity is what gives closure… and thanks for reminding me, we make our own.

This feels like a wake up. Cold. but real.  Emotionally yes, children. And you are right, once the devaluing starts the process won't stop… until they, or we, call it quits.


Yes, true.
Thanks Rob.
El

I have been asking myself this a lot lately. I have been trying to figure out why I can't let him go, why I want to cling to a friendship. In my case, I believe that he does actually respect me as a friend - its when sex enters the picture that the respect goes out the window. Keeping my boundaries to not fall back into bed with him is really going to be the deciding factor. At this point I'm not that worried since he is focusing on another woman so he won't be hitting on me. Its when they inevitably break up that my boundaries will be tested. I just hope I have healed enough to stand up for myself at that point. Otherwise I am going to have to end the friendship for my own mental health and that hurts to think about. One day at a time...

I actually made a discovery this weekend (during a psychedelic journey, which I use as a mental health therapy to dig deep into my isses) as to where my abandonment/rejection issues come from. It was eye opening and not what I expected at all. But now I feel like since I have the root of the issue I can start to work on fixing it. I actually get panicky when I think about not talking to my ex - I realize now that this is because he was the first person I opened up to in literally more than a decade and the thought of letting that go is really hard for me and feels like abandonment even if its me doing it. Luckily I am now seeing my trauma therapist weekly so hopefully I can make quick progress.

A few weeks back my ex was going off on something political (the one area we don't agree on) and I made a comment about him lacking empathy and he was bewildered and was like, no I have empathy...but I really am not sure he even knows what that truly means. He may feel some sympathy but when it comes to others emotions, its like a closed door.

I have mentioned in other threads that my daughter has BPD as well, though she is well regulated and went through DBT therapy. We have had discussions on BPD and I have gotten so much insight from her on how the BPD brain works...she has shared with me about the lack of empathy she feels sometimes. Its really just a defense mechanism - she feels so strongly in so many things that its easier to shut away other people's problems/emotions because if she started allowing herself to empathize it would likely bring up a lot of her own emotions that are hard to control. pwBPD aren't psychopaths (usually) but so much of BPD is really just a defense mechanism to avoid emotional pain and unfortunately that can lead them to seem completely unempathetic to the people in their lives.

With all the recent focus on pwBPD and their emotions - here's another one-liner for us to consider when trying to "understand what happened".

pwBPD live in world of "feelings based facts".  In other words - as feelings change so do the "facts of what happened" in the mind of a person with a mood disorder.

Hope this adds a bit of clarity to what is already a great conversation.

Rev

I've realized if I tried to be friends before being completely "over" my ex, I would probably still desire an intimate connection. Even if I set a boundary and could resist those feelings, I would feel internal conflict….  When you share about being healed enough to stand up for yourself, do you see yourself being free of all desire to be intimate?  Or being able to say no to intimacy, even while having those feelings?

Letting go of a friendship can hurt. I totally feel you.  Another layer of grieving. I've started to see the beauty in grieving. The sadness is a testament to love, the purity of the heart. The loss of something meaningful.

I once let go of a meaningful friendship and really grieved it's loss. It sucked. Years later we ran into each other, owned our "PLEASE READ (https://bpdfamily.com/safe-site.htm)" and what had lead to the end of our friendship and picked up where we left off. In my experience, some friendships/connections come back after long breaks … some don't. Either way, letting go of a meaningful connection hurts.

Glad to hear you made this discovery and are getting clarity in a deep way! Sounds like good self awareness and understanding. Hope your therapy has provided continued growth.

My ex has a really deep capacity for empathy and what you shared about your daughter explains why sometimes he can't access it. Thanks for the insights.

Yikes. Sorry to hear this, and while I didn't get that far into the downward spiral, I recognize the desire to understand, feeling my request denied, and made to be the problem (in a very subtle way)… which causes me not to wanna say anything.   
I am sorry that she never heard you or took responsibility for the effects of her actions. The abrupt shift from "love" to gone has taken me a while to digest.

Ouch, yes I feel you. This is not the way of caring relating.
Loosing the connection to her son and family too must be hard. It feels so dishonoring not to end things in a civil way.

This is true…