BPDFamily.com

Hi,
I am parenting our 11yo son with my highly functional uBPD wife. This forum and all the books helped a lot and I am truly grateful for the wonder of internet.
But off course life is practice and on top of that each life is a story in itself...
To get to the point, our son, quite similar to both me and my wife, is a bit slow in emotional maturing. He was always a year behind in this aspect. Everything else was always as it should be, no problems, but emotional control and social intelligence that stems from it were always a problem.
He made incredible progress through first 4 grades but now in 5th grade everything went on it's head. Because of a number of things beyond the scope of this forum he has problems with several of his class-mates and he is being bullied in a way, but not to the point where it is a real "problem". More of a problem is that he is really naive and does not have the "street smart" attitude so he always takes the blame for everything that a bunch of them are into at any moment.
Step by step it came to the point where he realised he in fact has no real friends in his class because all the "cool" kids he used to hang out with did some horrible things to him, and later lied about it so that he took the blame and is now observed by school team. What's funny is that WE addressed them trying to protect him from bullying, and at first it seemed that it was a right call. But as time went by, we realised that some of the kids' parent got into the story by organising a "quest" to isolate our son from everyone. We would not believe it unless we didn't hear it directly from a mother of one of his "friends". She told us in shock that our son was not invited to a birthday party although her son a other 3 kids invited them because "other mothers decided that he needs to learn a lesson so they will isolate him from everyone". She was really ashamed and we agreed that our son will go with her son to play and get some pizza which we did. So, it is REALLY a thing, not just something someone is imagining.
OK, so this has little to do with BPD but it is important as a context.
My uBPD wife is a special education teacher in a kindergarten and has a lot of experience with kids and education (worked in school before). The thing is that she is really perfect in this when she is "ok", but when she is "not ok" she starts putting all the blame on our son and always rants about him making us look bad, how can he be so stupid and not understand how he needs to behave not to create problems (basically he would need to be a plant in that class to not have problems...) etc.
These rants make our son anxious and although I try to bandage it with sooting words later and explaining about mom's "other side" which he must not take to his heart, I am sure they do damage and make him feel bad about himself.

So the question is this:
Off course there are a lot of moments when parents must be a bit tough on kids and not let them "get away" with bad behaviour. That's what being a parent is. Sometimes they need to hate you for you to do your job right.
But in a situation where one parent is uBPD, the other one needs to constantly shift positions. At some times (when your uBPD partner is OK and you together must "explain" some facts of life to your kid) you need to make a stand with her, no matter how tough it is at that moment on your kid. And then - and it might be just a few seconds later - when she gets "to a dark place" and starts ranting and verbally abusing, you must slip into a neutral position somewhere between your child and her, because if you confront her, all the rage comes out, and if you are still there on her side you are sending the wrong message to you kid.

Does anyone have this problem and how to you solve it? This flipping between being together with your partner as parents when they are OK and your kid needs to "sit and listen", and then only moments later when this stops being that and becomes a uBPD episode where he/she is REALLY angry on your kid and is out of control?

How to later explain child about your position? About this shifting? This makes me really miserable because I am afraid that my son will later in life feel as if I was not protecting him enough from his mother, while in fact I am doing exactly that, because if I would enter fights with her it would probably end with him living with her alone, and that would be a totally different hell.

Yes, this is also a concern for me!

Parents should be on the same page but not if one is mean. I mentioned in another thread that I want to avoid the feeling of "being one of the kids".

Could one solution be to take her to the side and ask her to calm down, validate the frustration she's feeling and then return to the child?

This is an important observation. The feeling of a need to "shift" between defending your wife and also protecting your child. One way to think about this is that your BPD wife shifts between acting like an adult and acting like a child and you shift to accommodate that.

Rather than you shifting, I would like to propose that a child ( and your wife) needs a consistent, emotionally strong, adult. They may shift, but you don't have to.

Even if bullying doesn't seem to be "as much of a problem" to you, it is devastating to a child. In addition, making a naiive 11 year old responsible for being bullied is asking too much of him. And shame on these adult parents who thought they should "teach an 11 year old a lesson". They have no business taking this role. He's a child. Looks like apples don't fall far from the trees if their kids are nasty bullies.

Yes I am well aware of the problem of parents "shifting". I was once the kid in that situation. Later I also have been the adult in it. What helped me to understand this dynamic was learning about the Karpman triangle. My BPD mother takes victim perspective. My father (now deceased) took on the rescuer role. If BPD mother was angry at me- I would be in persecutor role. Dad would step in to "rescue" her but the dilemma was also- when I was a child, he also needed to protect me. So yes, you are torn between two triangle rescuer roles. But step back because all triangle dynamics are a form of dysfunction. In the triangle dynamics, the person who takes victim perspective is not truly a victim. Most adults are not victims. They have choices, albeit some choices are difficult, but the victim perspective is emotional. They are not really victims.

However, when there is a child involved, that child is a victim. They have no choice. They can not take care of their needs on their own. Your son needs his parents to meet his needs. If your wife is limited in this capacity, then it is up to you to do that as best you are able to.  It is not dysfunctional triangle dynamics to protect a child. It's normal and essential.

I agree, he's a kid and kids need discipline sometimes. This becomes a challenge with a BPD parent and your son is about the age where I recall it got to be more challenging. A hallmark of BPD is emotional immaturity. I recall a moment at about age 12 when at the dinner table, my BPD mother was acting childish and I saw this. As an adolescent/teen, I was expected to follow the standard rules of behavior but somehow these same rules didn't apply to my mother and somehow I was supposed to obey her when she was behaving worse than I was?

I am afraid that my son will later in life feel as if I was not protecting him enough from his mother, while in fact I am doing exactly that, because if I would enter fights with her it would probably end with him living with her alone, and that would be a totally different hell.

I am glad you feel this way because it shows you are aware of this. It's something I wonder about. Why did Dad not protect us more? But I see also that he did the best he could in the situation where it was likely impossible to control all of my mother's behaviors. I am glad you are conscientious of not having your son living alone with her. Truly though, I didn't understand the situation better until I studied BPD on my own as an adult. This is not a concept a child can grasp.

Your wife may be good at parenting young children but older children may surpass her emotional ability to manage consistently.  Adolescents can be a challenge for even the most emotionally mature parents. For a BPD parent, the adolescent's emerging sense of self can feel threatening to them. As to "shifting"- the adolescent is dealing with their own hormones and emotions. You may feel you have two adolescents in the house for the moment but for your son, this is a normal process.

IMHO, your task is to not shift along with them. They both need consistency. Learn about the triangle. There's a difference between "rescuing" and adult and protecting a child. One thing my father did that helped both kids and my mother was to have us stay with his family at times. It gave her a break from kids and us a reprieve from the disfunction.

Is your child in counseling? I think he's gone through a lot with the bullying as well as what is going on at home. The bullying though is an outside issue. It is never acceptable. If he's bullied at school and subjected to his mother's behavior, the child has no safe place. For us, school was a safe place. I think it's crucial that your son has some safe place and if it's not home, then securing safety at school is important.

I relate to this and the stakes are high and very real.  I managed to walk a tightrope with my uBPDw for years, and I think my kids were ok.  But then my daughter reached an age where my wife started treating her more like an "adult" - probably in response to my daughter being a more defined person in the world. 

And I totally dropped the ball.  I let my wife scream at her.  I coached my daughter to understand and "open up" to my wife. At the same time, I was separately doing an OK job with her as the primary parent.  But still ... I have such deep remorse.

Then the pandemic hit and it was a slow motion disaster.  My daughter ended up hospitalized (for other reasons as well but the family dynamics were the foundation) for a couple days and has been slowly struggling to get out of crisis mode since.  My wife fumes about her, and my daughter has trouble being in the same room with her.

I'm still struggling with my relationship with my wife and what's going to happen with that.  But I have at least snapped into healthy parenting mode again, and I'm doing my absolute best to avoid the Karpman triangle at all costs and prioritize my daughter (and son) at all costs. 

This book was a huge help to me:  https://www.amazon.com/Raising-Resilient-Children-Borderline-Narcissistic/dp/1538127636
 

BPD involves difficulty in self regulating emotions and there does come a time where an adolescent's ability to self regulate can surpass the BPD parent. However, while the child may appear to have more adult behavior- she still is a child who needs parenting but the need probably exceeds the BPD parent's ability to provide that.

My relationship as an adolescent with my BPD mother was difficult. Parenting a teen can be a challenge for even the most emotionally stable adult.

One thing to keep in mind- you are probably used to your wife blaming you for her behavior, so you think it's just with you.

BPD involves their own difficulty regulating emotions in any relationship and especially the most intimate relationships- because those are the most challenging. You may see your wife can hold it together in more superficial social connections. That's when everyone is on their best behavior.

BPD mother also blamed me for the issues in our relationship. But the issues are with her, and they were with all members of our immediate family.


my daughter has trouble being in the same room with her.

Me too. Being around my mother is difficult. Even now. As an adult, I know how to manage this. Not as a teen.

But your D's feelings are normal. If your wife mistreats her- why would she want to be around her? These are her boundaries and they may help prevent her from being in relationships with a disordered person later on. She may have no choice about being around her mother if they live in the same house. She may need to learn to manage this for herself ( self care and not stay in the room too long) - but she also needs to be able to have her own feelings about it - and not have them invalidated.

It is good that you are taking on the emotionally healthy parent role with her.

This is a great perspective.  Thank you.  I am going to be committed to keep giving her the freedom and space to be away from my wife as much as needed.

One thing I struggle with now is how much to coach her on more adult ways of dealing with her mother.  Can I tell her pull back and so on?  Is understanding good?  Or is that too much for her?  Does she just need to be loved and live her life without needing to consider her mother like that?

It seems such a hard balance between giving a teen knowledge and support for their reality and parenting them as they should be - a child and adolescent who needs to focus on their own growing up.

Yes, this is a hard balance. It's hard to find the line between helping them to understand the situation and also to let them be a kid.

I don't have an exact answer. But here are some thoughts.

Love- yes - unconditional love. Love and approval from my parents was contingent on me behaving a certain way. My father did love me, but he also had a lot on his hands and the way I learned to get approval was to appease my mother and not rock the boat. This also meant tolerating her behavior. But what I wanted was to be able to be loved even if I messed up sometimes. Not in a big way ( I knew better than to do that ) but even a small slight to her was the crime of the century. We all walked on eggshells.

I think tools and understanding the situation might help. It wasn't an option for us then as there wasn't an internet then and also not much out there about BPD at the time. However, I don't think this should come from you. This would be triangulation. It puts her in the adult position when the two of you discuss how to deal with your wife. I think this is best done with an outside neutral professional- a counselor- who could listen to your child's perspective and guide her. If you do it, it becomes a triangle with you, your wife, and your child. Your role is Dad, not counselor.

Thank you again Notwendy. This is so helpful.

I definitely think I'm in danger of swinging the other way into that different kind of triangulation.  It's such a struggle.

I don't talk to my daughter about BPD or anything.  I do repeat things that my wife has explained to them.  And I feel like I do cross lines sometimes to coaching her now how to deal with my wife, rather than just being a parent.

It's hard - because I do read that it's really important to signal "that was not ok" and to step in more than normal.  And to some degree, this means acknowledging to her that her mother is not capable or being kind/loving.

But the last thing I want is to create an "us vs. them" situation between us and my wife. 

It leaks over with my son too.  He's desperate for validation that certain situations are not OK and not his fault. 

They both have therapists, and I think both therapists are quite good.  So maybe I need to trust that more and back off, without going back to my old passive ways.

It's hard!

Yes it is hard. It looks like you have supports in place for your kids.

It's difficult but it seems you are doing the best you can with it and for your kids.

Yes, there are times when I feel my uBPD husband is treating the children unfairly and I must intervene.

Instead of framing it as shifting to and from a person, can you frame it as your response to a particular action or event? This makes it more neutral: you always love and support your spouse and children, but you may disagree with something they say or do.

Reading Raising Resilient Children with a BPD or NPD Partner helped me clarify that my duty is first to my children and then to my husband. I'd like to not have to make levels like this, but in the context I am in, it has been helpful: when in doubt, do what is best for the children.