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Title: Nearing the end of the road Post by: WitzEndWife on March 30, 2022, 12:18:45 PM Well, folks, we're coming closer and closer to the end of my relationship with my undiagnosed HwBPD. I have finally decided that I need to prioritize myself and that I can no longer live with the abuse and cruelty. I have done everything: educated myself, gone to therapy to work on my own issues, re-discovered my love of horses, and gotten a better, more supportive job. I have supported him time and time again and tried to deal with his rages in so many different ways, but there is nothing left to do.
He finishes school at the end of May and my plan is for sometime in June. I still don't have a clear picture of what the actual day of will look like, but I'm telling more and more people about my situation so that I am supported. The scariest part of it for me is the actual doing of it. I will have to throw him out and there is no doubt that he will rage and say all kinds of horrible things to me. I also don't know, when faced with having to be on his own and take care of himself, how desperate he will become. He has a gun, so the goal would be to keep that out of his sight and possession for that timeframe. I can either somehow confiscate it when he doesn't have it on him, OR I can go the extreme route and get a PO and the police will confiscate it. The problem with getting a PO is that it would be a total blindside, the EXACT thing his mother did when he was 14, throwing him out without even a warning, and THAT has the potential to create a volcano of rage that I don't think the PO would stop. But then again, he could do nothing. It's hard to tell. The hardest part about everything is not knowing, and then, if I did get him out of the house, worrying about him coming back, even if I left the house for a little while after. I know others have done this, so I welcome advice. But please, if you have horror stories about someone getting killed by a spouse, I don't need to hear it. I have already heard a number of those and my therapist says I don't need to hear any more of them. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: BigOof on March 30, 2022, 12:27:06 PM WitzEndWife, you should start working with a local domestic violence agency now. They'll help you with the PO for free and ensure your safety plan is in order.
Doesn't sound like you have kids together? Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: ForeverDad on March 30, 2022, 01:21:24 PM This is probably unlikely but just so you're aware...
It's a 6 year marriage, the risk of spousal support during the divorce or alimony after the final decree *may* exist but it all depends on the circumstances. He may claim to be a disadvantaged ex. But you'll try to seek a PO, so that may counter whatever he claims. Also to your benefit, you've helped him to finish school, so he's well on his way to supporting himself at mid-40s age. These days alimony, if court decides to order, is generally very short term (usually no more than half the marriage length and often much less) while transitioning the disadvantaged spouse to post-marital life. But if you have to get a PO to get him out then spousal support or later alimony ought to be unlikely. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: WitzEndWife on March 30, 2022, 03:00:58 PM In terms of legal support, I've already secured that. My lawyer is a former judge as well, so she has a good idea of what will work and not work. She has said that as long as I pay for the car, I shouldn't owe him much of anything more, given our debt (one thing financial abuse is good for, I guess...?) and his lack of working.
I'm more worried about my safety with or without a PO. I don't know how I'm going to tell him. That's the scary part. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: ForeverDad on March 30, 2022, 04:00:48 PM You can decide not to tell him - a big weight off your shoulders - and let the legal system serve him. That's why the system is there. Or a blend of the two approaches. If you do advance notice or if he senses something is coming, be sure to have someone with you or nearby.
Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: PeteWitsend on March 30, 2022, 05:28:20 PM I agree you need to be careful. From what I remember about your story, he's sometimes aggressive & will throw and break things, but hasn't physically harmed you or threatened you. Not sure if that's accurate still (?) But either way, I think divorce is a very final step, and so his reaction might be exaggerated in response.
Aside from protecting yourself from physical violence, I wouldn't worry so much about his feelings or what he's said or done. That part about his mom throwing him out you wrote about above, do you even know that to be true? pwBPD are unreliable narrators to put it mildly. Plus their mood swings make it difficult, if not impossible, for them to follow through with promises and agreements, even if they made them in good faith. So my advice is to focus on what you need to do to protect yourself, and do not worry about him, or worry about his needs. He will not extend the same courtesies to you. Also, do not rely on his word; handle everything through attorneys going forward, and follow the temporary separation orders and eventual divorce decree. In my own experience, pwBPD will drag things on forever, and drag you down into the mud if you let them or try to accommodate them. During my divorce, BPDxw repeatedly begged me to re-consider (Never again for me; not after 5 1/2 years of misery, and after I already did that once and she failed to live up to her end of the bargain). After seeing that I was determined to move forward, begged me to call off the attorneys, and just settle everything over a cup of coffee amicably. I didn't respond to that either; last thing I needed was to have her make up some BS about me threatening her or hitting her, or make a scene in public, or lie her way to a property settlement or promise something in return she never intended to deliver on anyway. Better to just leave it up to the professionals, and get out. Don't be tempted to do things on the cheap. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: formflier on March 30, 2022, 05:43:55 PM Well...we have some time to sort this out. Kinda random things I can think of. 1. I would definitely have the PO ready to go, to the point of filing it. My guess is you will know if it will be needed fairly soon after you inform him/serve him. 2. Coordinate with a locksmith so that while he is out (perhaps you can tell him/serve him somewhere "offsite") the locks are changed with you having the only key. 3. Police can come over to "keep the peace" while he collects his stuff and perhaps you can find a support person that can be there with a video camera (phone)..so you can be somewhere else. That way if there is any question if he is taking your stuff or his stuff or whatever...they can put a video on it. (this also might be something you could hire private security for/private eye) You don't want to be around..but someone needs to protect your stuff from rage and other things. Last for now: I would recommend that you speak with your T about how you will handle his "reasoning" to not get kicked out. "Just when I find success (graduating)..you throw me away." "You are just like my Mom.." who knows... OK..really last question. What are your plans for random rage between now and June? Why not have PO ready and the next time he is out of line..just use it and accelerate your deadline. There is a risk of driving yourself bonkers with the "countdown". Again..discuss with T. Best, FF Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: Cat Familiar on March 31, 2022, 10:37:41 PM I was afraid of my ex when I was going through my divorce. It helped to have a supportive person working at my house, a contractor friend who had rodeoed—a bull rider who certainly wasn’t intimidated by a whiny, self important, identified victim of a man who was picking up the last of his possessions.
My ex didn’t know the status of this burly guy, whether we were a couple or if he was a handyman, and that served my purposes, though I hadn’t planned it that way. And my friend talked to me and told me I looked scared. It was definitely reassuring to have him there. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: alterK on April 01, 2022, 10:49:14 AM You are wise to be doing the work you're doing in preparation for separating from your H. If you haven't already, read "Splitting" by Bill Eddy. He's a social worker and lawyer who has written a lot about dealing with high conflict people, and this book deals specifically with the kind of situation you're in.
Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: WitzEndWife on April 05, 2022, 08:52:38 AM Thanks all - I really appreciate the advice from folks. I spoke with my parents, sister, and BIL about action plans. My thinking is:
Step 1: I'll identify all the things I want to make sure he doesn't get hands on, as well as document everything in the house. Step 2: I'll take my small, elderly dog and those important things and go stay at one of my family members' homes for a week, leaving a "Dear John" for him and giving him X days to vacate the home. Step 3: I'll have the PO ready to be served on the last day of that sequence. Step 4: I'll give a friend and a locksmith access to the home to change all the locks AND I'll change the security system. Step 5: I'll return to the city in which I live, but stay in an AirBnB with family for another week. Step 6: I'll return to my home with family and start assessing everything, cleaning, reorganizing, and making the house more "mine." Step 7: I'll hopefully be safe enough in Week 4 to be left alone and start rebuilding my life. H isn't one to rage and split longterm, at least enough to break through a PO. But then again, I haven't taken away his cushy, comfortable life from him before. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: PeteWitsend on April 05, 2022, 09:21:31 AM ... Step 7: I'll hopefully be safe enough in Week 4 to be left alone and start rebuilding my life. H isn't one to rage and split longterm, at least enough to break through a PO. But then again, I haven't taken away his cushy, comfortable life from him before. Sounds like you have a plan, which is good. You might expect his behavior to ebb and flow, depending on how things are going in his life. There will be periods of time when he's entirely focused on punishing or getting back at you. Then there will be periods of time he's focused on something else, and you won't hear from him, or won't get any grief during the divorce process. If he finds someone new, things may get very quiet. You never know with BPDers where their heads are... so like ForeverDad says, expect the unexpected. He could be begging you to take him back one day, and find and shack up with someone else the next. Basically, when things settle down a bit, enjoy it; but don't let your guard down until he's really and truly out of the picture. Ideally with someone else, or moved on to another city or state. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: Cat Familiar on April 05, 2022, 09:48:20 AM As others have said, expect the unexpected. Your years of experience with him won’t give you a road map for how he might behave once you’ve ended the relationship. It might put your mind at ease to pay for a security service that can monitor your home.
Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: formflier on April 05, 2022, 01:08:24 PM A well thought out plan. I'm curious about the Dear John letter thing and having him process all of this alone. There is no way to know for sure...but seems like a lot of risk for him demolishing. What about paying for an airbnb for him for a week (or more) so he has a place to go. While you and family go out for say a brunch with him in a very public place the locksmiths are doing their thing back home. Then after he has cooled for a few days you have security of some sort there while he picks up his stuff. Please don't take this as me saying your plan is "wrong"...just that I hope you weigh different courses of action and that you understand "why" you picked each one over the other. The "why" may drive other decisions once you identify and rank what is important. Best, FF Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: PeteWitsend on April 05, 2022, 01:41:30 PM A well thought out plan. I'm curious about the Dear John letter thing and having him process all of this alone. There is no way to know for sure...but seems like a lot of risk for him demolishing. What about paying for an airbnb for him for a week (or more) so he has a place to go. While you and family go out for say a brunch with him in a very public place the locksmiths are doing their thing back home. ... I think the brunch - if he knows divorce is coming - is inviting at best a lot of drama, at worst, maybe a violent incident. my XW had no problem making a scene in public; in fact, I think she actually enjoyed it... all the sudden attention, the play for sympathy, etc. I figure most pwBPD feel similar. I think when divorcing a pwBPD, you just gotta rip the bandaid off, so to speak. The more you try to let them down easy or slow it down, the more fighting you invite and potential leverage you lose. He may destroy things in the house if left alone, but 1) she said she's already removing everything she cares about, and 2) if he does destroy stuff - break things, put holes in the drywall - she can document this and use it against him in court. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: Cat Familiar on April 05, 2022, 02:06:02 PM That’s why I recommended a security service to monitor what is going on both outside and inside. They can call the cops so you don’t have to.
Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: formflier on April 05, 2022, 09:30:34 PM Will your homeowners insurance cover loses "caused" by the insured? Probably not. So...if there is $30k in damage...or more, can you handle that? I would think that insurance should pay off if you have a protection order and/or other legal means of saying "this person is not welcome in my home". Potential scene in public. That would expedite filing the PO and create witnesses. Best, FF Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: WitzEndWife on April 13, 2022, 10:40:34 AM That's a good point about the insurance. Maybe I can ask them about what would or what not be covered in that sort of event. At this point, he is also on the policy, so it might be tricky. But, ultimately, if he does any sort of significant damage to the home, it would have to play out in court and he would have to be held responsible for that, which would come out of his "half" of the assets.
At this point, I think I've verbalized everything I need to verbalize with him. I don't think trying to "let him down easy" would help. He is going to be upset, regardless. I would rather not be there when it happens, I've decided. I'll take the things that are important and matter to me and let him have at the rest (having documented everything, of course). My main fear is more after it "goes down" and he's out. Having some kind of security for the weeks after I get back might help, but I don't know if I can afford something like that. I'll have to look into it. Personal security is super expensive, from what I understand. At least his own personal gun will be taken out of his hands for a time with the PO. With him, I have no doubt that he will move on quickly to someone else, so that is honestly my hope. Once he's latched onto a new love interest/surrogate mommy, he will lose interest in punishing me. Honestly, once this is done and over with, I will feel so much better. I'm scared for my safety, but I'm sick of being abused and picked at every single day. Last night, he pulled the passive aggressive, "Did you check to see if your laundry was done?" I said, "Not yet, but I assume you need the machine?" He said, "Yes, I do, so the sooner you can clear the machines, the better." I had one load ready to dry, but it was a few things so I figured I'd just hang the stuff and clear the machines so I didn't have to deal with his anxious poking at me every five seconds to check my laundry. "Okay, I'll just pull everything out now." Him, "NO, you'll pull the laundry out when it's done." I go down there and pull everything out, hanging the stuff that still needed drying. He came downstairs in a full-on rage, kicking things and roaring, demanding that I put my stuff in the dryer. It was SO over the top, it was almost comical, if it wasn't also scary. I said, "Fine," and threw my stuff in the dryer. I do not need this kind of thing in my life. I'm SO done. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: Cat Familiar on April 13, 2022, 10:52:15 AM It’s good that you feel so decisive. When it was over for me, I knew it and there was never a moment of regret, other than for staying too long in an abusive relationship.
So what’s next? Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: WitzEndWife on April 13, 2022, 12:40:33 PM What's next? Well, I've started to make a list of items that are going to be important for me to gather when I do take my leave. I'm also starting a shared document of planning resources with my family. I will have to suss out a date for leaving (probably June 11th) and start setting things up.
FF made a good point about possibly renting him an AirBnB or something. I'll definitely look into it. I don't know if he will go there, but it might be good for me to do that so he has somewhere to go. I was also thinking a storage unit for his stuff. At this point, I'm willing to do anything in the interim to just get him out. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: formflier on April 13, 2022, 12:45:26 PM He came downstairs in a full-on rage, kicking things and roaring, demanding that I put my stuff in the dryer. It was SO over the top, it was almost comical, if it wasn't also scary. So...how often does this sort of thing happen? I'm also curious why you didn't call 911 the instant he kicked..slammed...yelled or any sort of violence? I would suggest that two big things be foremost in your mind. 1. Clear and succinct is actually kind. (or kinder than long drawn out jade) So...it's over. I will be divorcing you. Here is contact information for my lawyer. 2. Him having access to your house of any sort post divorce announcement is going to be problematic at best. I mean he started destroying things over laundry...right? Last: Why not call lawyer and file the PO. If you are done with it...be done with it. As in file the PO now. Best, FF Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: formflier on April 13, 2022, 12:47:11 PM At this point, I'm willing to do anything in the interim to just get him out. Good...call your lawyer now. File the PO. Your husband displayed violence and threatening behavior towards you over laundry...take that at face value. File the PO. Best, FF Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: Cat Familiar on April 13, 2022, 12:50:21 PM I’m wondering why you are setting a date two months in the future? Much can happen between now and then.
Also, do you think it’s possible that he’s becoming aware of your emotional “tells”? It seems that pwBPD can have a sixth sense of something going on underneath the surface. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: ForeverDad on April 13, 2022, 02:58:38 PM Also, do you think it’s possible that he’s becoming aware of your emotional “tells”? It seems that pwBPD can have a sixth sense of something going on underneath the surface. They may appear dense and oblivious in some ways but they've had decades to hone their control and manipulation skills. A phrase often mentioned here is "extinction bursts". I'm sure he senses something is up. As the End approaches they do sense that something is different and then choose to raise the level of conflict, as though they will be able to intimidate you back to prior compliant patterns. Due to his outbursts, being fair, up front and sharing is not a wise approach. All of that would be practical if you knew the relationship could be repaired. But it's not. At this point and with his patterns, giving him advance notice you're leaving (while thinking you need to be "fair" or "give fair notice") will enable him to sabotage you. Since you do not know whether you may have to depart quickly on a moment's notice, why not transfer to a safe place elsewhere some of your mementos and other things sooner he wouldn't notice were gone. Same goes for the documents you'll need such as passports, your birth certificate, as well as copies of bank and credit card account numbers, life insurance, your vehicle titles, etc. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: GaGrl on April 13, 2022, 03:31:21 PM Agree. The securing of documents and mementos is something that can they started now...just in case.
Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: WitzEndWife on April 13, 2022, 03:41:16 PM ForeverDad, I think that's a good option, getting stuff out sooner that would go unnoticed. I'm not opposed to doing that on days when he's not around and I have time.
The whole timing thing is based on when he graduates because then he has no excuse that I'm throwing him out before he's done with school and so he can't support himself and I have to pay alimony. Chances are low of that, but I don't want to give him that excuse. It's not THAT much longer and I've waited this long... Yesterday was exceptionally bad. Supposedly he'd had a bad day. I didn't ask, but he came home picking at me over a parking ticket because the car was parked on the wrong side of the street, then he announced to me via text he had a horrible day and was basically locking himself in the second bedroom and I would have to feed the dogs. I told him that I was on my way to take care of my horse, so he'd have to take care of the dogs. He was angry about that (he is jealous of the horse). When I came home from that is when this all went down. Whenever something happens that fills him with fear or shame, he takes any conflict and turns it up to 11. He did not kick anything toward me or at me, he kicked a bucket away from me, but he raged that he was upset that I wasn't "doing what he told me to do." This is why I definitely don't want to be around when anything goes down. And, when I do leave, I will warn those closest to him so that they can check on him. I don't think he suspects I'm up to anything like this, but he has been upset about the horse since I got her in October because I'm spending more time away from him. I just have to tread lightly and try to act normal until "go day." Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: formflier on April 13, 2022, 04:31:23 PM The whole timing thing is based on when he graduates because then he has no excuse that I'm throwing him out before he's done with school and so he can't support himself and I have to pay alimony. Chances are low of that, but I don't want to give him that excuse. It's not THAT much longer and I've waited this long... Hey WitzEndWife we are on your side, so I'm not "arguing with you"...my hope is this will help you think rationally and clearly in a time when it seems obvious that is important...not only for your finances post divorce...but also your physical and mental safety. Are you comfortable saying to yourself "I'm choosing to endure his violence and intimdation for "x" more weeks in order to potentially improve my financial position". Have you asked a lawyer if a conviction and/or protection order will have any effect on the financial aspects of your divorce? Here is another risk of enduring violence and "BPD" for a period of time. You know "something will come up". And then "I've waited this long...what's the harm in waiting another period of time". Next thing you know he graduated 6 months ago and you are once again experiencing violence and intimidation over laundry...or house cleaning...or how dinner was made...or just because it's been a while and he needed a "pressure reliever". I think you are worth choosing a life free of violence. I hope you make that choice..now. Best, FF Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: GaGrl on April 13, 2022, 05:22:05 PM I've followed your story and your He's history of not completing things.
Is there ANY possibility that he will find a way to self-destruct in a way that prevents him from finishing this program and having to support himself? Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: formflier on April 13, 2022, 08:15:37 PM Or perhaps asked another way... Based on his past behavior, the most probable (but not guaranteed) outcome of his school is..? Best, FF Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: ForeverDad on April 13, 2022, 08:44:27 PM Perspective reminder... yours is a relatively short marriage, about 6 years, your financial obligations are probably minimal. Your wish to put off a separation for another couple months may stem more from your emotional tendencies than practical ones.
One thought expressed here now and then is that there is never a "right" or "perfect" time to plan a separation or divorce. Yet that is what some here have done, and later realized there was never a perfect time, it just had to be done, come what may. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: I Am Redeemed on April 13, 2022, 09:38:32 PM WitzEndWife,
I encourage you to do what you need to do for your own reasons and do not orchestrate things around his distorted perception: I e., She's throwing me out before I finish school, blah, blah. He will always come up with some reason why whatever you do is unjustified, underhanded, backstabbing, abandoning, evil... you get the idea. Trying to preempt his distortions of reality and control his perception of the situation is a waste of time. He's not going to see how"fair" or "considerate" you are in this, so why suffer longer than you have to in the interest of controlling the "excuses" he can come up with to be mad about you leaving him for a long-standing pattern of abusive behavior directed at you? Abusers do not say "wow, she really was above board and considerate when she decided to leave me". Abusers say "how dare she leave, no matter what I did". Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: WitzEndWife on April 14, 2022, 02:48:57 PM I get what you all are saying and I guess another factor of this is that, while I'm tortured and depressed staying around, I also have been terrified of "doing the thing." I set a date to give myself time to prepare and process as much as I could, and to come up with a plan.
Only recently have I started to gel the plan and started to feel more confident about moving forward. So, maybe I'm making it an excuse that my waiting is about him. It's more about me and my need to set a plan and stick to it. The good thing about me is that it may take me a while to make up my mind, but once I've made up my mind, it's made. I'm not wishy washy about doing this. I'm more and more sure the more I move toward the date. Anyone who knows me knows that you cannot push me to do something before I am ready, no matter what. Of course, if he were threatening to me or something, I would leave faster, but most of the time, he's just nitpicky and gaslighting, and he might get angry and yell about something or other if I JADE (always MY fault, of course), but he is typically not a threat to my person. And I have dared him to hit me in his most roaring and rage-filled times when he's laying into me verbally, just to see if he would, and he just calls me "a sick person." At this time, he has not laid a finger on me. I think he more enjoys the verbal shaming and berating because it makes him feel better about himself. Hitting or physically harming me would not achieve the same satisfaction for him. When I decide to go though, who knows? I do feel like I know what I'm doing and I know my path, even though, yes, okay, I am putting myself through this longer than I should be. But I'd rather go into this feeling confident and secure that I have a plan and that I've told multiple people my plan and they are well prepared for that plan, rather than just doing it at the spur of the moment. Not everyone will agree with me and that's fine, but ultimately I'm the only person dealing with this particular situation. The point is that I'm getting out, right? After all this time of FOG and feeling horrible, I finally feel as "good" as I'm going to feel about it. I'm finally ready and I think that's a win. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: Cat Familiar on April 14, 2022, 03:19:14 PM I’m glad you’re feeling decisive. I can understand what you mention about taking a while to make a decision, but once it’s decided, you’re steadfast. I’m that way too.
Getting all your ducks in a row before you leave takes time and planning. And whether or not he finishes his program, you will feel like you gave him a fair chance to do so. I think some of us were wondering if you’d really follow through. We’ve seen you hoping that some external circumstance, such as the time when he was potentially studying an auto repair program away from home, would lead to a possible split. Here, however, it seems like you are self-initiating the dissolution of your relationship, rather than hoping to get him to do that. |iiii Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: formflier on April 14, 2022, 04:19:41 PM One red-flag red-flag red-flag is that I (we) definitely feel a different "vibe" from you. So if we are "feeling" that through text on a computer screen...what do you think a pwBPD is "picking up"? Can you remind me again of your status with a therapist? Still have the same one? How often? Do you feel supported there? Stay strong! Best, FF Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: WitzEndWife on April 15, 2022, 08:56:18 AM I think because he is also becoming more independent with school and his now part-time job, he's also not AS clingy to me as he was, which is to my advantage here. Of course, on his one day off, if I go ride my horse, I now get a litany of complaints about the horse and how I'm neglecting my dog because I am not proactively suggesting we go way out of town to go on an all-day hike with her. The translation, of course, is that he is feeling abandoned himself there and jealous of the horse and the people at the barn.
That being said, I think he interprets my own independence as being due to the horse and not as me gearing up to end things. I'm trying to be as "normal" as possible at home and not change anything I'm doing. I've been in therapy weekly, this whole time, and my therapist is really the one who has helped me the most in my journey here. This particular therapist I've been seeing for about a year and a half. She and I get along really well and she "gets" me. It really helps to have a therapist that understands and supports you and also calls you out on your BS. As you all know, I've been "stuck" in this for YEARS and now I'm finally un-stuck. :wee: Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: formflier on April 15, 2022, 10:56:40 AM I am so relieved to read your last post...the part about a 1.5 year relationship with a therapist and that you and therapist are both feeling you are "unstuck". Speaking for myself...I've been worried about you and also worried about "staying in my lane" as far as advice I give and all that. I hope your primary source of advice is your therapist. These online forums are really better suited to general advice and "batting around" ideas about how to make plans to leave...or really plan out any kind of thing. It certainly helps me to write out my plans...and then to have a group of people that can read and challenge my plans..super valuable. Let me finish with another question? What do you think you need most from us (bpdfamily) over the next couple of months? What does your therapist think you need in the next couple of months? Basically...how can we best help? Stay strong! Best, FF Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: WitzEndWife on April 15, 2022, 11:15:45 AM Thanks, FF, and I really appreciate all your help over the years!
I think it will be helpful for me to have support as I go through this from people who understand, people who have been through similar situations. I have no idea what I'm walking into and my plan until then is to kind of build up my "fortress" around myself to help protect me from the inevitable attacks that will come from him. Even though it's a bit heartbreaking, I do thank my lucky stars that I was adamant about not having kids with him. I knew things would not pan out well if that had been the case. I think the community can support by just allowing space for me here to vent and process what's to come. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: formflier on April 15, 2022, 01:32:00 PM build up my "fortress" around myself Yes! Fortress of planning and wisdom...correct? I think the "text format" of BPDfamily easily facilitates "fortress building"...are you up for creating a list of things to be protected...and then under each one, list out several things which can be/should be done to protect them? Probably best to leave the "getting emotionally ready" part to you and your therapist. Thoughts? Best, FF Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: Cat Familiar on April 15, 2022, 02:33:06 PM It might be prudent to think of *worst case scenarios* and plan for them. I know it's unpleasant but better to have a plan than to be caught unawares.
When I was in the midst of divorce, one night I came home to my newly built little house, which I’d started after I split up with my ex. He’d been inside, as either I’d left something open or forgot to lock the door. We were still sharing the acreage and he had belongings still left in a trailer, so he did have reason to be there, but not in my house. A pilot light had been extinguished and when I opened the door, the house smelled of propane. Whether it was intentional or an accident was never determined. However, at that point, a friend coerced me into borrowing a handgun and practicing at a shooting range. That was so out of character for me, but nevertheless, I kept that gun underneath my bed for a year, months after the divorce was finalized.Thankfully I never had a moment where I felt I needed it, but it was there anyway and that gave me some reassurance. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: WitzEndWife on April 18, 2022, 09:38:49 AM I'm REALLY good at coming up with "worst case scenarios" in my head. One thought I've had is of him burning the house down before leaving (he made a comment once years ago about the place being a s-hole that he was going to burn down), so I will take anything that matters to me as well as tip off police to at least drive by and check to make sure the house isn't smoking.
Another worst case is him offing himself, but I think having a letter kicking him out and then following up with a PO days later will at least kind of safeguard me from that if it does happen in the house. On the other hand, I really don't think he would do that, but it is definitely more likely that he'd do something to himself than to me. Which brings me to the final worst case scenario, which is doing something to me. As in, breaking the PO and somehow obtaining an illegal firearm or something else to try to harm me. I should most definitely obtain my own firearm and learn how to use it, even though I have been to the range with him and am terrified of guns. I do have a friend who is an expert marksman and I'm sure she would take me to the range with her. My gut tells me that he's going to be angry, but, at his very core, he is most interested in self preservation. Unless he somehow takes a nihilistic turn, my instinct is he won't want to break the law in any way that would send him to prison or get him deported, no matter how big a game he talks about defying police, etc. I imagine he will get very nasty in court, maybe even make things up about me, but he will be otherwise compliant. He is emotional but he is NOT stupid. Unless extremely intoxicated (he quit drinking to excess years ago), he definitely understands limits to his behavior. His core concern will mostly be about being able to care for himself. If I give him some money initially to be able to rent himself a place and get set up, I don't think he will be AS vengeful, although I know he will be vengeful regardless. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: PeteWitsend on April 18, 2022, 11:30:02 AM I'm REALLY good at coming up with "worst case scenarios" in my head. ... My gut tells me that he's going to be angry, but, at his very core, he is most interested in self preservation. ... His core concern will mostly be about being able to care for himself. If I give him some money initially to be able to rent himself a place and get set up, I don't think he will be AS vengeful, although I know he will be vengeful regardless. I excerpted a couple parts of you post, because I get the sense that you're overthinking some of this by continuing to focus on him & what he'll do. Protect yourself for sure, but if he's all bark, no bite, don't concede things you need out of concerns for how he will react. He's going to whine and complain and bad mouth you regardless of how fair you are in the divorce proceedings. You can't make him happy. A mistake I made in my own divorce was giving my ex too much credit, and instead of fighting for things I needed in the long run, like certain parenting rights, I conceded them with a minimal amount of conflict, or "horse traded" them away more cheaply than I should have out of concern for how my BPDxw would react. Once you get into court, and away from them, the dynamic really changes. Consider the following factors that weigh against pwBPD and in favor of those who are not: It costs time and money to fight for more than you're entitled to. And pwBPD are often not patient enough to put in the time to draft terms for their attorney, draft allegations, respond to discovery requests, and collect bank statements, etc. and add up months of expenses. So while the pwBPD might holler about abuse and deception and stolen funds by the other party, when it's time for the rubber to meet the road, they'll likely just let things go, albeit with some grumbling about unfairness and things being stacked against men/women (whatever they are). Their bark is often worse than their bite. Plus, if they have a reasonable attorney, that will curb their tendencies a bit as well. If you want to allege something and actually push that in court as a means to some end (for example, expanded custody rights, or a larger property settlement than 1/2), you need to have evidence that supports your position that will stand up in court. Whining and complaining, and he said/she said statements do not. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: formflier on April 18, 2022, 11:40:03 AM Hey...so do you want to make a "worst case list" and then see if there are ways to prevent or certainly limit his ability to do (fill in the blank). Best, FF Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: WitzEndWife on April 18, 2022, 01:56:34 PM When it comes to the legal battle, my attorney, who used to be a judge, is pretty confident that I'll come out on top. I'm not really worried about that, but I'm SURE he will throw fits and paint me as a horrible you-know-what to anyone he knows.
That being said, I'm building my emotional fortress to be able to deal with that. FF, I guess I could list out all of the potentially horrible things he could say or do, but also I know I'm never going to be fully prepared for what he would have in store. Emotionally, I know he is going to paint me as a bad person. So, what can I do? I know he is going to do that, so I need to reassure myself constantly that I'm a good person, that I've done MORE than anyone could ever have expected me to do for him, and that I've hit my limit. And that he has been controlling and abusive for years and I don't deserve that. It seems so obvious writing it out, but it's way more complex feeling than it is as a logical situation. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: formflier on April 18, 2022, 02:22:52 PM Emotionally, I know he is going to paint me as a bad person. So, what can I do? I know he is going to do that, so I need to reassure myself constantly that I'm a good person, So...I think there is a lot more you can do, especially with time to plan and to work with your therapist. Let's skip over the "letting him know" plan and assume that has been done. Doesn't matter if it went well or bad...just that he knows and you can now move on with the next step. So...my question to you is HOW exactly are you going to know what another person thinks or says about you/to you. If you no longer live with that person and don't want more contact than is absolutely necessary. Let's leave it there. Once you get the list together of how you might have to endure "knowing" exactly what he thinks...then we can use boundaries and planning to essentially eliminate this. How does that sound? Best, FF Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: ForeverDad on April 18, 2022, 07:50:07 PM A mistake I made in my own divorce was giving my ex too much credit, and instead of fighting for things I needed in the long run, like certain parenting rights, I conceded them with a minimal amount of conflict, or "horse traded" them away more cheaply than I should have out of concern for how my BPDxw would react. My magistrates in court always seemed to introduce themselves as "I don't know anything about the past history of this case so let's begin..." They didn't care how nice or fair you are nor how mean the ex is. They allow the parties to do a lot of bad stuff, well, as long as it doesn't becomes something "actionable". The person behaving poorly seldom gets much in the way of consequences and the person behaving well seldom gets much credit. So your Nice Guy or Nice Gal sense of fairness and niceness falls on deaf ears, certainly with your ex but also to some extent with the court. As long as you are not behaving badly yourself, then you're free to protect yourself and your rights. Divorce, by its nature, is a controversial matter, after all, one is a plaintiff and the other is a defendant. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: WitzEndWife on April 19, 2022, 08:26:45 AM So...my question to you is HOW exactly are you going to know what another person thinks or says about you/to you. If you no longer live with that person and don't want more contact than is absolutely necessary. Let's leave it there. Once you get the list together of how you might have to endure "knowing" exactly what he thinks...then we can use boundaries and planning to essentially eliminate this. How does that sound? I think I can do that. I'll have to talk with my therapist about what that looks like. I'm sure I will get a barrage of texts and messages that include all of the worst insults he has for me: I'm old/used up, inconsiderate, unhinged (when defending myself against him), I'm going to leave him for [insert the most insulting and hyperbolic stereotype of a person here], etc. No matter what he says, I'm going to have to fortify myself to say, "That stings, but it's untrue." No matter what. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: formflier on April 19, 2022, 09:18:34 AM I'm sure I will get a barrage of texts and messages that include all of the worst insults he has for me: I'm old/used up, inconsiderate, unhinged (when defending myself against him), I'm going to leave him for [insert the most insulting and hyperbolic stereotype of a person here], etc. No matter what he says, Hey...perfect...PERFECT example! Who controls whether or not you see incoming texts to your phone? (note..I did NOT ask who controls what texts his phone sends...although that is a good thing to clarify) Best, FF Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: formflier on April 19, 2022, 09:21:38 AM I'll have to talk with my therapist about what that looks like. 100% agree! Whatever strategies/ideas we "find" on BPDfamily should be discussed with your T. Important pick a strategy with your T and ALSO pick actions that support the strategy...and to avoid actions that "counter"...your well thought out strategy. Best, FF Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: PeteWitsend on April 19, 2022, 11:49:58 AM When it comes to the legal battle, my attorney, who used to be a judge, is pretty confident that I'll come out on top. I'm not really worried about that, but I'm SURE he will throw fits and paint me as a horrible you-know-what to anyone he knows. ... Just remember you still have to be your own advocate throughout the process. All attorneys get bored of routine cases, and things tend to slow down after initial filings are made, and that's the time you need to stay on the ball and make sure nothing is slipping through the proverbial cracks. AND be sure to Focus only on the material results, not what people are saying or thinking. Those things do not matter. It's simpler for you since you don't have children with him & you didn't have a very long marriage, so there's less entangling the two of you than in other cases. I imagine you just want it over with & without any ongoing obligations to him, which should be doable, given your situation. Just beware of him trying to open joint accounts, taking out loans under your name, or blowing money really quickly; the day after I filed, my soon-to-be-ex quickly ordered a new $2300 couch on my credit card before I had a chance to close it. Stuff like that. Ask your attorney what you can do to monitor it. You also can't control what he says and thinks about you, and it's better to just ignore it. Don't burden your attorney with it... just costs you more money. Tell a therapist if you feel you need to. In my own case, I was pleasantly surprised how many people took "my side" in the divorce, meaning they refused to go along with BPDxw's attempts to badmouth me. even couples that BPDxw served as the meeting connection stayed cordial to me, much to her chagrin. And in fact, a couple of them even reached out to let me know my Ex was trying to force them to take sides, and they were not giving into her. It told me a lot about who was a decent person and who wasn't. Eventually, BPDxw moved to a very rural area to get away from it all. She couldn't handle her own social scene knowing no one wanted to engage with her in her own vindictive campaign. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: ForeverDad on April 19, 2022, 12:55:43 PM I think I can do that. I'll have to talk with my therapist about what that looks like. I'm sure I will get a barrage of texts and messages that include all of the worst insults he has for me: I'm old/used up, inconsiderate, unhinged (when defending myself against him), I'm going to leave him for [insert the most insulting and hyperbolic stereotype of a person here], etc. No matter what he says, I'm going to have to fortify myself to say, "That stings, but it's untrue." No matter what. My ex did that too in the final months. And of course got worse once we separated. That was one of the reasons I was relieved to be the plaintiff in my divorce, I was the one trying to get away from an unhealthy relationship. Her lawyer had no way to claim I was the controller or abuser, I had filed to end it. A lawyer may tell you that in court it doesn't make a difference whether you're a plaintiff or a defendant, it just depended who filed first... but emotionally I was so glad I was the plaintiff. You can picture yourself as having an invisible "force field" umbrella to protect yourself and deflect all the attacks. Whatever mental gymnastics or exercises work for you. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: formflier on April 19, 2022, 01:21:29 PM Might be a good idea to do a "freeze" on your credit. Maybe close to time you need to "inform" him you can report your cards lost and have them send out new ones...anything with your name or joint. Come up with a plan on "closing" joint credit so he has no access. Best, FF Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: WitzEndWife on April 20, 2022, 10:27:58 AM I'm definitely going to close the joint account we have (remember when he took a chunk of money out of it and said he would replace it? Ha - there's like $28 in it now) and replace any cards I have, as annoying as that is. I have to change passwords to any accounts he might have access to and all of that.
I will have to check with our insurance regarding anything he might try to do to the house. Since he is the primary name on the insurance account (even though I pay for everything - he set it up), I don't know what would happen if he destroyed things or tried to burn the house down (worst case, wild scenario). There are a bunch of technical holes I need to plug for sure. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: formflier on April 20, 2022, 11:55:36 AM Hey...did you ever think through the question on who controls what texts appear on your phone? Hoping we can take some stress and worry off your plate.. Regarding insurance, probably best to start shopping for something new. I would ask your insurance and also I would ask your lawyer how destruction by him would be handled. Best, FF Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: Cat Familiar on April 20, 2022, 02:10:45 PM I second formflier. Get your name on the insurance policy ASAP. It’s your house, right?
Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: WitzEndWife on April 21, 2022, 08:38:52 AM Well, it's technically OUR house because his name is on the loan, even though *I* pay for everything. The home insurance gets paid through the loan, so that makes things complicated. I will have to find out through the insurance agency and the lawyer what will make sense.
It's funny, I thought if I kept our finances separate, we would not have that complicated a divorce, but things got tangled up anyway. It's hard not to when you have a controlling and financially abusive partner. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: PeteWitsend on April 21, 2022, 09:50:37 AM I second formflier. Get your name on the insurance policy ASAP. It’s your house, right? Well... wait a sec. If he damages everything in the house, does this make him more likely to potentially get in trouble for insurance fraud or not? or maybe if he threatens to destroy everything she can more credibly bluff him that his name's on the insurance, and it's only going to hurt how he comes out of the divorce. If keeping him from torching everything is the goal, maybe this is better, assuming Witzendwife can still file a claim if he does/ is still on the insurance. Just my opinion here: His anger is going to be entirely focused on witsendwife. So as long as she takes efforts to keep out of harm's way, I don't think he's going to go completely "scorched earth" here, and destroy the house Presumably, his own financial interests in the divorce settlement are at stake in the house. So if he damages its value, he's only hurting himself. he may very well smash and destroy any personal property she leaves in the house, and break a few things, but I don't expect him to smash up all the drywall or anything like that. My fiancee has a friend that just went through a divorce with a guy who was possibly NPD; definitely not a stand-up guy and he's definitely lied through his teeth about his income and assets throughout the process. He was staying in their second home while things went down. and this 2nd home was going to be hers (the house had been in her family previously, but since they bought it as a married couple it was subject to the divorce settlement), BUT she would have to buy him out. Well, She had already removed any personal belongings at my advice, but left all the furniture and fixtures like window blinds and curtains there. She didn't expect he'd take the time to really do anything to that stuff. When she eventually got back in the house, it was completely bare... no furniture, no curtains, no blinds no rugs, nothing. he either tossed or sold EVERYTHING out of spite, but didn't damage the house otherwise, which would have only reduced the price she paid him. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: formflier on April 21, 2022, 10:31:06 AM Just my opinion here: His anger is going to be entirely focused on witsendwife. So as long as she takes efforts to keep out of harm's way, I don't think he's going to go completely "scorched earth" here, and destroy the house Certainly it's possible to work out this way, yet generally pwBPD go back to things that worked for them in the past..when they are angry and want to lash out. He has "already crossed the line" of destroying personal property and damaging the house...so there is really no "barrier" to him doing that again. It will just be a "normal" behavior for him..since he has done so before WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE. At the end of the day, there is no way to know for sure. Best, FF Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: ForeverDad on April 21, 2022, 01:39:34 PM I will have to check with our insurance regarding anything he might try to do to the house. Since he is the primary name on the insurance account (even though I pay for everything - he set it up), I don't know what would happen if he destroyed things or tried to burn the house down (worst case, wild scenario). One of our members faced a very similar scenario, though both of them were on the homeowners insurance, and theft was the claim, not destruction... so get legal advice now. My ex ran away back in 2007. She took both of our boys (7 and 5 at the time). I went to a friends a week later and came home around 2 am. Ex took most of the things in the house. She took all the door locks too so I went to my brothers that night. I returned two days later and the house had new locks. We were going to court so I waited until then. The court gave me the house since ex left. That is considered abandonment in legal terms. Ex wanted me removed but that didn't go her way. The next day she showed up with the police, She convinced them I had to vacate the property. I literally called my attorney in the driveway and gave the phone to the police. Ex said she misunderstood what the judge said. A few weeks later I received a letter from our homeowners insurance. I had to read it three times because I couldn't believe what it said. Apparently ex filed a claim and said I emptied the house and made it look like she did it. The letter said, since both our names were on the insurance, that you can't rob yourself and then make a claim. It took three times before it sank into my head and then I laughed so hard my sides hurt. We finally divorced in 2012. She filed in 2007 but kept stalling things in court ? I will never understand that. During equitable distribution she claimed we had 1.2 million in assets that I took from the house. Fortunately, when I got access to the house in 2007 I found a disposable camera. I had the photos developed and one was a uhaul truck in our driveway. I went to uhaul , told the guy we lost the receipt, and needed it for our taxes. He gave me a copy. Ex also rented a storage unit for all the things. We were still friends on facebook in 2007 and she started posting pictures of her new apartment. Every photo had things from our house. I printed them all out. Her petition for equitable distribution listed things she claimed I had taken back in 2007. It was four pages long and in her handwriting. The photos showed, if I recall correctly, about 70 % of the stuff on her list. I actually wrote the reply to her petition. I agreed with her 1.2 million evaluation and said she could keep it all and just give me my half in cash. It honestly was worth no more then $25,000. My lawyer liked it so much we went with that. We had sold the house and had the money in an escrow account. Because of the photos and ex's paper trail, her attorney wanted nothing to do with going in front of a judge. She took ex out of the conference room. When they came back we settled for what I actually wanted. Her attorney did not want to get in front of a judge... Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: PeteWitsend on April 21, 2022, 03:12:40 PM Yeah, I think she definitely should talk to her attorney about this. I'm not sure how it shakes out, or what the risks are.
But I just don't see any way to accomplish switching the insurance without tipping her husband off that divorce is coming, which she's hoping to avoid. Plus She's already on the insurance, if I read her post correctly. Not sure being the primary name changes anything. if insurance companies look at destroying your property the same as they do theft of your own property, it's possible he could destroy or damage things and they wouldn't cover it, but again... since it sounds like he's going to need the property settlement in the divorce for support, since he's barely employed and has no career, and so he's not going to damage his own interests here, unless he is just completely insane, not just BPD. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: PeteWitsend on April 21, 2022, 03:20:38 PM Short of employing the legal equivalent of a blitzkrieg (i.e. changing locks, hiring security, and getting a temporary restraining order blocking your Ex's access to the home), I really don't thing it's possible to eliminate the risk they break/steal/destroy things.
And how many people even have property to protect worth the cost of the "Blitzkrieg" above? And how common is it for a spouse on the receiving end of a divorce to destroy the same marital estate they are entitled to half of? I've heard of spouses blowing money to minimize the assets they have to share, but straight up destroying a house... is that common? I think you be brave and move through it, and you can only control yourself. So keep out of harm's way, and let the courts and lawyers do their jobs. personal property is all replaceable, and preserving it is not worth the cost of staying in a miserable marriage. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: ForeverDad on April 22, 2022, 02:30:33 AM We have only our opinions, past experience and suggestions as peer support. So... bring a copy of your insurance paperwork to your lawyer and you'll get experienced legal advice, even if it too is a (legal) opinion.
Be sure that before you leave you take photos of everything in the house and/or a video on a walk through. Also, stbEx can be advised by your lawyer after/when notice is served that if he damages anything in the home it may not be covered by insurance claims. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: WitzEndWife on April 22, 2022, 09:23:45 AM I absolutely plan on taking an inventory of (valuable) things and doing a walk-through before I leave. My lawyer will absolutely need to weigh in and I plan to engage her again in a couple of weeks to get the ball rolling again.
Either way, it's hard to believe that I'm almost done with this day to day nightmare. I know the D-word is going to be rough, but I just want my own space back, my own life back. I want to be able to breathe and to do things without worrying whether I'll get a shaming lecture later about how I did them incorrectly. I will be able to have indoor plants and shades on the windows! I will be able to spend time with my new horse and barn buddies without worrying that I'll be seen as a bad person. I will be able to make myself a meal without having to worry about pleasing someone else too. Forgive me for this celebration, but it's a lot. Any Hell I'll endure through this is worth it. Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: GaGrl on April 22, 2022, 09:44:12 AM Make the inventory a video walk-through in addition to written documentation.
Title: Re: Nearing the end of the road Post by: PeteWitsend on April 22, 2022, 12:07:23 PM I absolutely plan on taking an inventory of (valuable) things and doing a walk-through before I leave. My lawyer will absolutely need to weigh in and I plan to engage her again in a couple of weeks to get the ball rolling again. Either way, it's hard to believe that I'm almost done with this day to day nightmare. I know the D-word is going to be rough, but I just want my own space back, my own life back. I want to be able to breathe and to do things without worrying whether I'll get a shaming lecture later about how I did them incorrectly. I will be able to have indoor plants and shades on the windows! I will be able to spend time with my new horse and barn buddies without worrying that I'll be seen as a bad person. I will be able to make myself a meal without having to worry about pleasing someone else too. Forgive me for this celebration, but it's a lot. Any Hell I'll endure through this is worth it. Sounds like you have the right perspective on this. And (while I'm sure you learned from the experience), if nothing else you'll appreciate your life and individuality a lot more now that you're out of hell. |