BPDFamily.com

Title says it all really.  A few weeks ago my husband had an mental health arrest after I called the police during his rant of suicide and breaking things in the house.  While he was in the hospital I got a restraining order against him to stay out of the house.  I also filed for divorce.

He is staying with his parents, and I can just imagine him stewing in resentment.  I have sent over everything he asks for, and our teen children see him on weekend and sometimes during the week.  When this first happened I changed the locks on the doors and barricaded them every night when I went to bed -- and this was at the advice of one of HIS family members.  I am terrified of him returning, of the restraining order being lifted.  I was trying to find another place to live even before all this happened -- in fact, that is what set him off -- but I'm on our current mortgage and all of my money is in our house.

As I said, I've filed for divorce.  I don't want to prove fault, or get anything from him.  I just want to leave.  If he wants to buy me out, he is welcome to the house, and I'm happy to share child custody.  This is what I asked for before his arrest and the restraining order - and he wouldn't hear of it.  He just threatened me, himself, and our house.  Now I think he is going to me angrier that ever, and feel "betrayed".  He has told me that he will fight me on everything, and he will claim that I abuse the children so that I lose custody.  Scorched earth policy.

I'm so afraid!  I feel like he is capable of doing or saying anything.  I am "black" to him now.  He has quite a faulty memory - distorting things to fit his narrative.  Plus he is highly intelligent and can be quite charming.  I get nervous, emotional and tongue-tied in tense situations.  I'm so afraid he will say something that lets him back in the house, or gives him custody.  My lawyer thinks I have nothing to worry about.  I have photos and documentation of his past rages and destruction, plus I think the arrest will look bad (I feel so guilty, I NEVER wanted to use his condition against him!).  For so long I wished that he would break up with me so that it would be "his choice".  I can't wait any longer.  Is there any way I can get through to him?  I'm not trying to take anything, I just want to go and give the kids a healthy, sane environment to live in.

Hi Liren, really glad you found us. The more support you have right now, the better -- things sound so intense.

I just want to start out by saying you're doing a lot of positive and proactive things to keep yourself safe, regardless of what your H may or may not think or feel. Here is how proactive you've been: called police, got RO, filed for divorce, set up parenting time, changed locks, got a lawyer, documented rages, reached out for support. You deserve recognition for making wise choices under so much pressure.

You mention teens... how many kids do you have, and how old are they? When they go see their dad, I'm assuming it's at his parents' house? Are his parents there?

I'm also curious about this:


To whom are you worried he'll say something "convincing"? You? A judge? Someone else?

Obviously there's a lot of history and lots to talk about here. I want to keep it brief by focusing on a really, really important point for people in your position.

We can be so ready to "be done" and "do whatever it takes" to separate lives from a pwBPD (person with BPD) that we're ready to give away the farm! We also try to be nice, fair, and "we would NEVER use their condition against them". There can be a lot of pre-framing in our heads of certain actions as "the right thing to do" or "if I were in his shoes, I'd wish that I'd be kind".

We often have to radically reassess our beliefs about "being nice" or "being kind" or "what is the fair thing to do" or "what is the loving thing to do" when we deal with pwBPD. For many reasons, we may equate appeasement with "being fair". Appeasement may have worked well for us as a survival strategy in earlier life, or when in a relationship with the pwBPD. Maybe appeasement, or giving them what they seem to want, or giving them what we think we'd want in their position, has helped us to avoid conflict in the past. So, it's worked before.

However, it's critical that we untangle our belief that appeasement is kind. What if we considered that allowing pwBPD to experience the consequences and effects of their choices is more ultimately loving than "trying to make it not so bad for them"?

Also, you have minor children to care for. If their dad struggles with explosive emotions and irrational actions, is he truly in a position where joint custody (that is to say, equal legal decision making power between you and him) is best for them? Shared custody can work in low conflict divorces. Yours, to be frank, sounds high conflict. If you're afraid that he will make irrational and harmful and intrusive choices, can you envision "reasonable compromise" and "calm decision making" with him about the kids?

We can slow down here and think about whether "giving him whatever it takes for him to leave" is your long term best plan. I will give you a "spoiler" on how it has gone for some other members here... one member literally tried giving her ex the house 100%... he still delayed, obstructed, and it ended up costing her money to make him take it.

This relates to another key point: we imagine, because we are relatively normal people, that "the pwBPD probably thinks like me, has the same motivations, and would want the same things". BPD is a disordered way of thinking. Believing that because it'd work for us, that if we give them what they want, they'll be satisfied, generally isn't true.

Well, that wasn't brief! I guess I'll summarize by saying: you're in a strong position right now. It isn't mean to move forward protecting yourself and your children. Being "nice" to a pwBPD isn't as nice as we think -- when we act with strong boundaries and a clear structure, and keep our leverage, it typically goes better than if we try to appease right away. You have time -- you can slow down, breathe a minute, and take this step by step. So often there is SO much pressure when interacting with a pwBPD to "decide right away". That's a false construct. There's always time to say "Let me think about that".

You have a smart lawyer and you don't have to believe the emotionally convincing assertions coming from your ex.

We'll be here to walk with you through this process.

Keep us posted on how you're doing...

kells76

You are so right about "appeasement".  I have to get out of that mindset and stop trying to think of him in terms of what a rational person would do.

My children are 13 and 14. Thus far, his rage has always been focused on me alone.  Though I know I did a lot to appease and reroute things, to shelter them from the worst of it.  That's really what made me make the decision to leave -- he raged at me in our child's bedroom, threatening my life and wouldn't stop despite their sobbing.  He couldn't see it, couldn't stop.  But I could see what it was doing to the child(ren) and decided enough was enough.

If he ever directs that rage, paranoia, etc. at one of the children then I will seek sole custody.  I'm definitely going to have the children in regular therapy and be on guard for that.

But for now, I want to keep things as "normal" as I possibly can for the kids.  I thought that seeking joint custody would make things go more smoothly and quickly in court.  I'm not trying to prove fault or make him out to be a bad parent (legally, anyway) -- just split the assets and end the marriage.  Easy-peasy.  I feel like the courts will love that - no child support, no spousal maintenance (we have comparable salaries), shared custody - and any shenanigans he pulls will look petty and obstructionist.  I honestly think that he will get overwhelmed pretty quickly with all the day-to-day tasks of caring for children and household alone and things will drift naturally into an every-other-weekend visit arrangement where he gets to be the "fun" parent.

I am terribly worried that he will say something to the judge or courts.  He has been harping on how he will claim I abuse the children if I leave for years now.  When in a "state" he distorts things in his memory, and is very forceful and convincing when he speaks.  For instance he claims I "drugged" our older child at 3 years old.  No. When our child was in preschool/kindergarten his teachers were very concerned about his explosive, uncontrollable tantrums (gee, who does that sound like?) and at their urging I took him to a child psychiatrist who diagnosed a possible anxiety disorder.  We tried out some low-dose medication and therapy.  I encouraged my husband to go to every appointment and told him what was happening.  Yet he claims I "drugged" our child without his knowledge.  That kind of thing.  Puts me on the defensive.  I've always had to be the rule making, rule enforcing parent.  And when they were younger, I had to do a lot to keep the kids from "bugging" him too much, lest he explode.  So that makes me "abusive", when he is angry with me.

Personally, I think threatening to kill our cat, smashing out windows, breaking mirrors and threatening to kill yourself in front of them is abusive -- not giving them timeouts for fighting, or making them use forks and finish their veggies, or taking away computer time until they show me their homework is done.

I feel so much guilt for what I've done, even though I know it was the right thing to do.  Plus I feel horrible for burdening his parents this way.  But that's a big part of the problem, isn't it?  I've taken on all the guilt and responsibility for years, for how HE feels and reacts.  I've wanted to "fix things" for so long.  I've spent over a decade with my psychiatrist, trying to figure out what is wrong with ME - why do I make him like this? why am I so anxious?  why do I feel like I'm failing my children?

I mean, if I could fix him I would.  I'd give him a kidney or lung if he needed it.  If I could give him half my soul/mind/etc to cure his I would.  If I could go back in time I would be his superhero - give him the love and protection he needed and deserved.  But I can't.  I'm not the one that hurt him, not the one that failed him.  I can't let him keep hurting me, and the only way to stop that is to leave. 

Sorry, off on a tangent there.

My attorney is very reassuring that I can keep him away from me.  I do hate to pull the "abused woman" card (something my husband often accuses me of doing) in court but hey, sometimes that's the truth!  I'm intimidated by someone larger, stronger and far more violent that I am.  Someone who destroys furniture in a rage and threatens to hurt me.

Do you have any recordings of his rages? Any photos of damaged furniture?

I do.  Four years ago he raged at me and destroyed the table I was sitting at -- he said I was laughing at him.  I recorded a video of the wreckage and me talking about what happened (after he left the house).  I had forgotten about that until I went looking through my phone.  Watching that made me relive it.

I also have photos of the destroyed artwork that was in our hallway shortly before his arrest. 

I agree with kells that being “nice” hasn’t worked to get him behaving better up till now, so why would it work during a high conflict divorce?

So many of us with BPD partners have worked overtime to protect them from consequences of their behavior. Just like in AA, you need to let them hit *rock bottom* to actually feel, and hopefully understand, that what they do affects others. That is *kindness* though it may not feel that way at the time.

Otherwise they have no motivation to look at themselves and change dysfunctional behaviors.

Here's one way to think about that idea.

If your kids' dad does these things:







then it isn't "better" that he has not directed this behavior at them, and honestly, if this has been "the norm" for your family, then why try to maintain normalcy?

If it has taken much of your energy, effort, focus, attention, and emotion to "manage" things for the kids' sake when you guys are married, why would he "do the same" or "do better" when you aren't there?

I'm saying this out of a caring place. What has happened -- there's a lot of history there. It's not OK for him to act abusively. And yet, even just being in that "stew" can impact the way we see things. You sound like someone who's ready for change, and you really deserve kudos for wanting better for you and your kids. Part of that change is going to involve "facing the facts" and noticing where we engage in "wishful thinking".

Could it be "wishful thinking" to hope that your kids' dad will be a stable parent with joint custody?

Part of the process of realizing that someone in your life has BPD is grief. Often we avoid grief by starting with wishful thinking. We wish that the pwBPD might be more caring "if things were different", "if I didn't create conflict", "if I went easier on them", "if I gave them what they wanted". We wish the pwBPD would be as good as we want them to be. We want good for them! That's not a bad thing. It's caring. We want people to be their best selves.

Where we run into trouble is when reality hits. Your kids' dad has done violent things and has threatened you in front of them. Good dads don't threaten moms in front of kids. That's wrong. What's real about your kids' dad is that he isn't a safe person to be around right now.

I wonder if you can allow yourself to grieve what you wanted for your family, to grieve how much good you wanted for your H, how you wanted him to be a better him, and let yourself "radically accept" that he is who he is right now, not who you wish he could be.

When we make decisions involving kids' safety, we have to deal with who people are right now, not who we wish they'd be.

It's a lot... I'm wondering about your take on all this? I know you have a LOT on your plate right now.

 :hug:

kells76

And P.S.

I don't want to leave you at "well OK so there's all this stuff I shouldn't do, like appease or do wishful thinking, so what DO I do", especially when your initial question was -- now that your H is out, you're scared of what's next.

You're in a really good place for people who have "been through it" when separating/divorcing a pwPD (person with a personality disorder, diagnosed or not).

I think the most important takeaway is that you CAN, in the legal process, be really proactive and creative with the parenting plan and custody order, so that you aren't being thrown around and always having to react defensively to the crazy stuff your kids' other parent does. We have a ton of ideas and experiences with building the most air-tight PPs possible, so that instead of having to cope with (for example), "well the plan said I had to allow reasonable phone contact and now he's Facetiming for 4 hours a night every night", you can build a structure that isn't punitive yet also protects you and the kids because it builds in consequences ahead of time for obstruction, unreason, entitlement, etc.

I hear you that you're highly concerned about what he may or may not do next, and I'm guessing part of your idea of "what if I just said joint custody is fine" was to minimize conflict so that he wouldn't get set off?

There are ways to build PPs/custody orders that aren't inflammatory but also have strong boundaries and aren't punishing him. This kind of PP is often nonintuitive and not boilerplate at all, but it's doable.

One brief example would be:

"Kids are with dad EOW from 4pm Fri to 7pm Sat and every Wednesday from 4pm to 7pm (or whatever times you think of), and this plan will start once he provides evidence of completing a court-approved anger management class and a court-approved parenting class. Until Dad provides proof to Mom's lawyer of completing both classes, Dad's time will be supervised at [location] by [person] every other Saturday from 12pm-7pm, at Dad's expense."

This is something where the door is open for a "reasonably normal" parent who is motivated to be with the kids to show that motivation. Any normal parent who had that requirement would be getting it done ASAP. I suspect, though, that your kids' dad will balk at completing "normal" steps. However, that's on him.

It's not your job to take responsibility for him stepping up to parent safely. And, like you mentioned, it's also not your job to "punish" him.

What this kind of language does is allow him to take responsibility for how involved he is. If he doesn't like not seeing the kids, or not having more time with them, etc, then he has an "open door" to make that change himself. He is allowed to take the 2 classes to show his motivation. If he feels "punished" for not doing that, it wasn't because you "purposefully wanted to punish him" -- it's on him.

Creating legal docs to keep you safe is NOT an intuitive skill when the other parent is disordered. We can totally help with it though.

I too noticed your original "he is welcome to the house, and I'm happy to share child custody".  This had shades of "I'll agree to almost anything just to get out."  Other parents have arrived here with that desperation for it to be over... and later regretted it because they Gifted away far too much.  The others here have basically alerted you that such thoughts are not productive solutions.

Your house... You have that right, as long as the financial aspects are addressed correctly, either of you can have the house.  After all, a house is not a home.  Your home and the kids' home is where you live.  You make wherever you live into your safe home.  There may be too many distressing memories in this residence for you to stay and that's okay.

Your kids... They need you.  With your spouse under arrest, it should not be hard for you to - long term - have primary parenting and majority time schedule.  Short term you will probably get a temp order with you having custody and majority time.  Depending on the circumstances of the arrest and how your county court views such cases, he may be limited to supervised contact with the children, at least until some professionals get to assess him.  That should give you a few weeks of breathing room.

Very important... do not turn down any comments about limiting stbEx to supervised visitation.  Yours is not the task to be super nice, fair, or whatever.  Yours is to be Mama Bear, so to speak.  Your task is to protect yourself and the kids!  Don't hesitate about that, not one bit.  Your spouse is an adult and, as the others noted, it is best for him to face his consequences.  Whether he learns anything from it is not your concern.

Some have commented that destruction of property when raging IS abuse.  Whether that is "actionable" may be up to your local court's policies.  (Mine didn't seem too concerned, but I didn't have much damage.)  One aspect is that older events (when you didn't report) may be less actionable.  (My court was concerned about just the past 6 months, but older incidents may qualify as patterns of poor behavior.)

Warning... If he begs, pleads or promises to behave better, the #1 perspective is to know that promises mean nothing, actions over extended time may mean something.  The patterns of past history are a huge obstacle for him to manage to overcome.  Maybe he can do it, eventually, but while a few turn around their lives, you certainly won't know overnight.  There are NO quick fixes.

Be aware that a "psych eval" may be offered now but that is just an overview of a person's mental state.  What has more impact concerning parenting is an in-depth "custody evaluation" but usually that is handled within the divorce process and can take several months.

Right now, my concern is that you must not feel sorry for him or not pursue a strong course to protect yourself and the kids.  "Give me a break", "I've learned my lesson", and all that other blah blah blah should not weaken your determination to handle things better.  You are not being mean, nasty or whatever.  Your appeasement days of walking on eggshells need to be over!

I'm sorry you are going through such a painful time. Ask for more than what you want (in terms of custody etc), and keep protecting yourself. Are you sure he wouldn't hurt the kids to get at you? I know this is a confusing time and he will likely cycle through different phases, but just remember how scary he can be. As hard as it is, it's great that he showed his true colors and you knew to protect yourself.

Honestly, I don't want the house.  It would be quite difficult for me to afford the mortgage alone and it has a very large yard that I don't want to have to keep up.  But the main thing is this -- this was OUR house.  Our house to have children and grow old in.  I don't want to be there without him.  I want a smaller place (still a 3 bdrm suburban house) where the kids and I can make a fresh start.

I don't know that he was "under arrest", it was a 24 hour observation thing and he was free to go afterward.  Not sure how much that counts.  I mean, I know that he was raging and threatening suicide, but they found him to be no danger and released him.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if, once the rage at me passes, he begs and pleads and says he's changed.  I mean he's done so before -- and to be fair, back when he was getting behavioral therapy and regular psychiatric visits he did quite well.  But I am firm on my stance that I CANNOT live with him anymore.  I cannot live with someone that I am afraid of, or who tries to make me stay out of pity or guilt.