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I'm trying to negotiate custody with BPDexgf. I have temporary custody. I've presented a very basic step-up agreement. She has to stay sober when she has visitation, continue with therapy, and maintain a job. Three very boring stipulations.

She says "I will do ANYTHING to see my baby" with lots of crying and screaming and tears.

First of all, she already REFUSED to do rehab, so she is not willing to do ANYTHING, but she can't even listen to me lay out that logic - does not register for her.

She also says "I will do ANYTHING - I will cut off my foot! I will hang from a dinosaur's mouth over a volcano to see my baby!"

As odd as these comments are, it struck me that pwBPD CAN'T just do boring, normal things. You have to be boring and sober for many days in a row to earn trust. She would rather cut off her own foot to "fix" the situation.

When she says "I will do ANYTHING", I ask her to repeat back the things I've asked her to do - specific, boring things that will allow her to see the baby. She changes the subject and will not even acknowledge the things I'm asking her to do. Very bizarre.

That's all-or-nothing thinking - a.k.a. splitting.

But the dramatic statements allow her to present to others the extent she would go to see her child. Others don't know she has been asked to simply conform to acceptable behavior.

Sigh...

Are these conversations occurring on paper or in a court setting? I think your reactions to her, telling her to stay sober x number of days, etc., are very valid points and very factual. Her emotional statements tug at the heartstrings, but it's good to stick to the conditions that keep your child safe, and maybe ask for a little more than you want.

MomM - These are conversations occurring as we negotiate a custody arrangement with lawyers involved. The actual agreement contains the boring stipulations. She refused to sign the agreement and asked for an extension, and in the meantime continues to tell me she would do "anything" to see her child. The things she must do are clearly defined, it's just that they take a little time and effort. She would rather "cut off her foot" to see the child.

GaGrl - Good point - she's trying to convince others (and herself) that she's willing to do anything, while her actions suggest she is not willing to do basic things.

For what it's worth, I suspect an arbitrator may advise you that she's correct your stipulation that she maintain employment in order to see her child is not child-focused and thus unfair...which means you risk her getting a "win" over you by demonstrating "how evil" you are.

You have to be careful with child custody to only insist on those things that are in the children's interests of the visitation - so her being sober and having been to therapy both make sense (therapy perhaps only assuming there are concrete examples of her BPD affecting the children) - but you can't be trying to mandate her to self-improve the way a bail court judge does.

That said, I get where you're coming from - especially with the "I'd do absolutely anything I could...in the next thirty seconds". A lifetime ago I had to help a pwBPD overcome alcoholism, and it left me with rather strong views on the evils of that habit - I simply don't allow it in my house these days. Your wife will cut off her foot to prove the sincerity of her emotions right in this instant, but won't go home and spend an evening sober to prove such sincerity.

Which leads me to an interesting thought...

Can you "regretfully" decide to "compromise" and remove the employment clause from the requirements? (But make a big performance out of doing so, and maybe get something from her side in exchange?)

This would solve the issue raise by PB, and would be a jiu-jitsu move. So she's saying she'd do anything to see the kid? What if you "made it even easier"? If she'd "do anything", and now the list is only 2 requirements instead of 3... wouldn't it show who is the real problem, if you are "gracious" and "accommodating" and "compromised", and she still won't even do 2 things?

That could be an area to "throw her a bone" without compromising your kid's safety, and I almost guarantee that it won't make a difference and she still won't comply with the other 2.

Good point. I have a good law firm working on the agreement so anything that sounds wrong is likely just an error in my explanation. I think the agreement is that she has to have a place to live or a mailing address in order to have unsupervised visits in the future - which makes sense because that protects the child - you don't want the child sleeping in a car. And I just described that as "having a job" because in my mind, you have to have a job to have a residence. But that's not necessarily the case.

Also good points about jiu-jitsu negotiating and the "instant gratification" needs of pwBPD. Anything that takes more than a 30 minute commitment is too much.

So if lawyers are involved in negotiations, I'm curious about the level of contact you have directly with her.

I'm also curious about how you respond when she claims "I would do anything.."

Can you do some he said she said leading up to it?

Best,

FF