BPDFamily.com

Hi Parents,

My daughter just turned 18 and something my husband and I struggle with is how to deal with situations where she won't acknowledge her actions. For example, last year we found vape pens and accessories in her room multiple times and she would always say she has no idea where they came from and one time came close to accusing me of planting them there. She gets extremely upset when she feels accused and acts so offended you can actually start thinking maybe she is telling the truth (even though you have evidence she's not). One time I checked her bag when I picked her up from school and found a vape pen - she got very upset and said someone must have planted it there. She even followed up with me the next day and gave me a story of how she identified the boy who put it there.

Yesterday we were at a craft supply store and I was at the checkout but she was still browsing. She had a few paintbrushes in her hand and she said she was putting them back. Today when I was cleaning up the living room, the bag from the store was on the carpet with the paint we had bought still in it...and I opened the bag to find 4 paintbrushes in there too! They still had the price tags on them. I knew it would be futile to accuse her but I also wanted her to know that I knew what she did. I calmed down and waited for her to come into the room and said "Oh look! Someone gave us those paintbrushes for free!" She immediately said "No those aren't from yesterday, they are from another time and I put them in there so I could put them away with the paint we bought." Of course the chances of that being true is almost zero, but I knew if I pushed she would likely spiral and then I would have to watch her because she is extremely prone to self harm.

So to me this is worse than the vape pens because it's criminal and she could get caught. Some may say I should let her get caught and maybe she will learn a lesson, but we don't live in the States and the country we are in you would never want your daughter to spend even 5 minutes in jail.

I'm so frustrated because I don't know how to help her when we can't even have a conversation because according to her none of it never happened and she doesn't understand why I don't trust her. I also don't know how to tell what part is the mental health condition that she "can't help" and what part is within her control.

Hi victoriousmama, glad you found the group.

What a ride to be on, to try to parent a teen with BPD type behaviors. You and your H have been through it and then some.

Sounds like she's still living at home? Do you guys have any other kids, and if so, any living at home, too?

And I'm curious about your journey of finding out about BPD. Did your D18 get a diagnosis?

Can I ask, when did the "I have no idea where it came from" response start? Has this been a "go-to" move for her for a while? For whatever reason, it sounds like it's been effective (I'm definitely NOT saying healthy!) for her to get what she wants. I'm guessing she probably does this with friends/peers, too?

I wish I could find the other thread on here, and if you read back a few years, you may find it -- I can't remember the poster -- but there WAS in fact another parent posting on here about their child using the exact same "technique" as your D18, the "I have no idea how that got there" move. And you're right to notice that things can escalate when a pwBPD feels accused or blamed, as one part of BPD is that it's a shame based disorder.

One way to deal with the "I have no idea how it got there" move is to, in a sense "treat her as if she's telling the truth" and have natural consequences from that.

What I mean is -- it's not that you, uh, actually have to believe her. It's that you treat her as if the words she is saying are accurate. The difference would be that when you treat her words as if they are accurate, then you can move forward with your concerns in a way that can de-incentivice her choosing that "move" to get away from responsibility.

A tangible example would be:

Her: "I have no idea how that vape pen got in my bag"

You: "Really? No idea? Oh my gosh, honey, I'm really concerned for your memory and brain function, if you have no idea how things get in your bag. You're really sure you don't remember?"

Her: "Ugh, Mom, that's what I said, I have no idea!"

You: "Oh, no, I'm deeply concerned about your brain function, then, as this can be the sign of a serious issue. I'm going to take you to the doctor so we can check to see if there's a neurological issue, or a brain tumor, or XYZ going on, as memory loss in teens is a huge health issue."

or something like that, where if she wants to play the "I have no idea, I don't remember" card, then you follow up with natural outcomes as if that were true, which she will probably not like. So then she is in a position of either having to double down on "I don't remember" and she gets a lot of doctor appointments, or she needs to change her story. Of course, this approach definitely depends on how she'd respond, and you know her best, so you can think through if that'd be helpful.

Another approach could be treating her "followup" story about "this boy put it in there" as if her words were accurate, and saying "oh no, so he put it there... ugh, that's awful. So you must not want the vape pen, then, huh?"

After all, if she doesn't know how it got there, and it isn't hers, then she must not want it?

And then decide if you want to "return it to him" or something.

Again, not sure if this'd work for her -- you know her best -- but those are some ideas where instead of putting energy into "fighting" her obvious lie head on, which you've probably experienced isn't effective, you move forward with treating her words as if they were true (big difference from actually believing her words are true) and she gets to experience the natural outcome of that.

...

The stealing is difficult, as I hear your concern about her getting pulled into the legal/criminal system in your country.

I wonder if it'd be helpful for you and your H to write out or talk out explicitly what the steps would probably be if she gets caught, and then you guys be on the same page about at what points your values and concerns drive you to intervene, and at what points you both are OK with not intervening.

Many, many parents here deal with those excruciating choices. In the USA, parents often agonize over whether to let a child with BPD use illegal drugs but stay in their home, or have a firm line that says "no drug use in the house" and then the child chooses to live on the streets.

Your choice has to do with if/when you "bail her out" or not. Facing those fears on paper and feeling firm in when you intervene and when you don't, ahead of time, can help you and your H support each other and stay strong in your values, whatever your D18 does.

And that isn't a decision anyone else can make for you. So we're here to listen and support you both as you decide where that "line" is for you. Because you and your H need to be healthy and cared for, too. Your well being is just as important as your D18's.


Yes, I can see why this is your summary!

You know, it's interesting, one thought I'm having now is that she must be getting something out of having an undefinable, unwinnable, nebulous "conversation". Like -- there is something about having this "unsolvable issue" of whether or not she's telling the truth, that is doing something for her. She gets more engagement, maybe? What do you think?

I'm wondering big picture if there's a way for you and your H to disengage and not participate, when it becomes clear that "it's another one of those conversations". I wonder if she feels "in control" when she "hooks" people in to these "no I didn't, yes you did" type exchanges. Would there be less reward for her if, at the very minute she started to say "I just have no idea how it happened", she heard you say "oh that's too bad... well, Dad and I are going to make some juice in the kitchen, see you later" (or something). Something that you and he have control over, that declines to participate in her (I'm guessing) unending circular conversations about "what she really remembers"?

I'd be curious if you guys decided to try that -- to stop participating and leave the room as soon as she says "I have no idea how..." -- what would happen.

OK, this was a lot! Let us know how you and your family are doing, whenever works for you. And again, welcome...

kells76