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Children, Parents, or Relatives with BPD => Parent, Sibling, or In-law Suffering from BPD => Topic started by: Mommydoc on August 27, 2022, 07:39:06 PM



Title: Considering NC, need advice
Post by: Mommydoc on August 27, 2022, 07:39:06 PM
After one unproductive 1 hour phone conversation, 30 texts and 3 manifesto emails from my sister wBPD over the course of 6 days, I am ready to walk away, go completely NC. I want to let attorneys manage the situation with my sister wBPD from this point forward. She was triggered when she realized that the attorney I retained represents me and not her. I kind of get it, it felt threatening, but the only action the attorney has taken is draft a simple update to the Trust. She’s sat on it for months and feigned she didn’t know or understand what it was; I gave her the benefit of the doubt. The filing of document is quite delinquent. My attorney feels the delinquency is not a high risk as we just didn’t understand the requirement, but now that we do, it represents a legal risk to both of us. I finally gave her a deadline of September 15. I thought and still think she will sign the documents, but unfortunately she went into one of her worst rages ever.

Despite a couple minor mistakes this week,  I am happy with the level of effort and how I managed though it all. Acknowledging, validating, Offering options, listening and responding to her concerns, BIFF and SET.  I thought I had begun to successfully de-escalate the situation, when she let me know that she had found an attorney who she liked and who had a positive rapport with my attorney last night. She accepted my suggestion to gift  money from the trust to help cover the legal expenses.   I even got series of love bombs this morning. But ultimately  later this morning when she suggested and I didn’t agree to her request terminate my relationship with my attorney, she went ballistic and started in with nasty accusations and threats again and reversed her position on several issues. I am done, ready to walk away, and to never speak to her. I am sick of the tools, and sick of trying. I want to go NC.

I felt OK though the week, as I focused on getting input from my attorney, working with the book keeper on the financial accounting she requested as well my work. Today after reflecting on the last 24 hours, I am  devastated. I used to think we had the common ground of wanting the best for our mother and both came from a place of love. Though I had accepted her BPD and recognized the inevitable conflicts round how to work together to achieve that, I still thought she cared about my mom and I could self manage  myself through it. Today, I realized that common ground is not there. She loves my mom but I don’t think she cares about her happiness and well being. She is literally counting the inheritance and geared up to assure at all costs that none of it is eroded. One of her texts talked about the wealth and legacy we could create together with the trust.  I am having extreme difficulty accepting it all. I am angry, I am sad, I am disappointed, I feel really hopeless.

The good news is I have a 2 week vacation coming up. She has found an attorney. It feels like the perfect time to go NC. I have alluded to my vacation and return date in several messages. The attorneys are clear on my goals and where I am flexible. The attorney wants to pursue removal as Co-Trustee, but I honestly don’t care, if we can work it through the attorneys I am completely ambivalent what role she takes. But I have given up on working “with” her directly.

I was LC prior to this week, and I never announced it to her. I just told her I didn’t want to have the family meetings anymore and email communication would be better for us for a while.

Please offer any advice and tips on the transition to NC , thoughts on if this the right thing for me, pros/cons from what you know from my situation. It’s really hard as I really see this as a permanent decision even though I know it’s possible to change my mind in the future.  I even told my husband that I will let her plan services and burial and will find a different way to seek closure and grieve when my mom dies. I don’t think I am over reacting or being dramatic, I just believed we may have reached a point of no return.

Thank you to all of you for your ongoing support and wisdom.


Title: Re: Considering NC, need advice
Post by: Notwendy on August 28, 2022, 06:37:30 AM
One idea is to just withdraw slowly from the relationship rather than announce a cease communication. The latter is likely to trigger her into a rage and while we don't do what we do to control someone else, I have found that actions are better than words.

I never went NC with my parents but when my father got sick, my parents were maintaining an image that he was being taken care of by BPD mother and people assumed he was. I spoke to his doctor ( I had consent to speak to him). BPD mother had depended entirely on Dad to do things for her and she would be unable to take on the role of caregiver. I wanted to see if he could get some home health services.

So when the doctor asked Dad about these- he got angry at me and told me to not do this. I didn't want to participate in this lie- his providers can't determine his needs if they don't know what they are, so I told him I would honor his wishes but to please find someone to advocate for him to get whatever services he needs.

That statement resulted in an anger and uproar from my parents. Their response was punitive. It came down to a lack of common ground as you say you have with your sister. On my part - I loved my father and wanted him to get whatever care he could get. My father also wanted to get care, but his focus was on protecting BPD mother.

I was naive to BPD relationship dynamics. In retrospect, I am glad I spoke up for my father but I think rather than reacting to him,  it would have been better to not respond. I see now that these anger outbursts are something the two of them shared in a way. If BPD mother got angry at me, she'd rage at me and he would too. Then they'd act as if it never happened. Then, if I reacted, it added more to the drama and resulted in more anger from them.

The triangle needs a persecutor. This kind of response puts you in persecutor position. Your sis is now probably being consoled by her H over her "mean sister". It's also possible that her wanting money is driven by him too. If they are having money worries, that isn't your responsibility and it's not your mother's either, it's their problem but they may be projecting their anger on to you. You should not feel responsible for this. You worked hard for many years to get where you are professionally. You are handling your mother's finances ethically.

In retrospect, I think just stepping back without reacting to my father anger would have been the better choice. They'd have probably found something else to be angry at me for, but responding didn't help the situation. BPD mother took over anyway as it was. Home health workers didn't work out as she didn't like them.

I reacted because, I had good intentions for him and his response was hurtful. You are feeling like that too. Your intentions are good- you want the best for your mother and your sister's actions are hurtful. If you react from this place of emotion, it will add fuel to the drama. As much as you want her to see your good intentions, you have no control over what she thinks. One idea is to have a "vacation" from communication. "Hi sis, I will be out of town for a couple of weeks. The lawyer is available if you have questions during that time".  Then slowly decrease communications when you get back.

I think also consider the practicality of NC. After Dad passed away, BPD mother had disowned me in her moment of rage. I could have gone NC at this point but still, extended family was in contact. My kids were in contact with their cousins on social media, we might attend the same family events, but thinking about it, I didn't feel comfortable doing it. LC seemed to be better, albeit it's not ideal, but it helps me feel less emotionally vulnerable with BPD mother. I think there will be times you will be in proximity with your sister and so decreasing communications might be more manageable.


Title: Re: Considering NC, need advice
Post by: GaGrl on August 28, 2022, 09:04:00 AM
Vacation will be good -- you need a break!

Perhaps you can let the attorney handle all communications while you are on vacation, and see how it goes? Make a final decision when you return?

The discussion of a "legacy" with the trust is strange, when she so clearly wants money.

The truth (that you accept and are acting on) is that the trust was set up to ensure your parents' quality healthcare through end of life. Fundamentally, your sister does not accept the purpose of the trust.


Title: Re: Considering NC, need advice
Post by: Methuen on August 28, 2022, 09:25:29 AM
Hi Mommydoc,

I understand the feeling of having reached the end of your rope.

First of all I am sorry for her barrage of communication reflecting disordered thinking and self-serving interests.  Could it be that one of the hardest parts is accepting your sister for where she is at?  

The good news, as you said, is that you have a 2 week vacation lined up.  This will provide a natural time-out and will give everyone’s limbic system a chance to calm down.  

I recently experienced something similar on my 2 week vacation.  We were in nature being active, and it was beautiful and felt good.  But at night I would wake up after 2-4 hours of sleep and my brain would go into overdrive.  I used every single tool available that I know to manage this, but failed miserably at getting back to sleep.  During the day being active in nature was my balm.  At night the brain switched on trying to process all the problems.  I over analyzed everything, trying to look back at what I did wrong.  It took me 2 weeks of holiday and sleepless nights to begin to process things. I had my first good sleep the 2nd last night of our  2 week trip.  The trip was still completely restorative.  The timing of the trip was a godsend.  You also will have this natural time out.  I was off the grid, and that really helped me.  Will you be able to take a complete timeout and not have to communicate with lawyers (negative distraction) during your vacation?  Or maybe you are ok with that?

You are a reasonable and rational person.  You have your mom’s  interests as your #1 priority.  Your sister is emotional and has her own way of seeing things (which serves her interests ).  When there’s a PD involved, these two views are probably irreconcilable.  You have  done everything you can.  You have  been reasonable, worked extremely hard at this relationship with time and effort, and exercised extraordinary patience.  Sadly, despite your best efforts, the result was predictable.  She will do what she is going to do.

I find many users on this board announce their NC in some way but it is my thought that this escalates.  We can never anticipate how much worse it could get because our brain doesn’t work like theirs does.  If we announce our intent to cease communication they will be triggered and mos certainly react.  And there’s no way of knowing where that will lead. IMHO, the “quiet” NC involves less risk and leaves doors open, but every situation is different and there is no one size fits all.  

Meanwhile, she has forced this to where it is, and since money seems to be one of the root issues, letting your lawyer deal with her (and her lawyer) is the way to go.  You have  acted in your mom’s best interests through all of this, while also trying to appease your sister.  That resolution has been unsuccessful, is on her.

Look after your self right now.   Do you have vacation plans?










Title: Re: Considering NC, need advice
Post by: Mommydoc on August 28, 2022, 11:42:52 AM
Thank you for the replies and support.
Excerpt
Perhaps you can let the attorney handle all communications while you are on vacation, and see how it goes? Make a final decision when you return?

After sleeping on it, I awoke with the same conclusion. My attorney has warned me repeatedly that my relationship with my sister may not be salvageable. I think yesterday I finally accepted that at the deepest level, and it hurt. I am very angry with the realization that we don’t share the priority for my mothers happiness and well-being. It was the common ground that I was anchoring to. I realize the immense shame that may be creating for her. All of which is now being projected full force at me. I have not expressed any anger directly at my sister ( quite the opposite), but my family (husband, son and his GF therapist who is a god send) let me vent constructively yesterday. My husband feels a sense of relief that got to that place. He and my therapist feel I have both expressed that I have been abused for too long. 
Excerpt
ind many users on this board announce their NC in some way but it is my thought that this escalates.  We can never anticipate how much worse it could get because our brain doesn’t work like theirs does.  If we announce our intent to cease communication they will be triggered and mos certainly react.  And there’s no way of knowing where that will lead. IMHO, the “quiet” NC involves less risk and leaves doors open, but every situation is different and there is no one size fits all. 

I am so grateful for your advice NotWendy, GaGrl and Methuen, to hit pause and not over react with an abrupt NC. Yesterday,  was an important day, as prior to that,  I was holding on to hope that I could get through this and salvage the relationship. I have probably for the first time acknowledged that might not be true. I would say I knew that, but not sure as had really accepted it internally. Now I have let go of that, though I am willing to leave the door open to that possibility. It is up to her. I am still processing.

I acknowledged her last email with a single word, “noted” and have ignored the negative subsequent texts. It’s been almost 20 hours since I last heard from her.

I am going to use the vacation as you suggested as a natural pause, and try to allow the time and space to focus on myself and healing the hurt before making any decisions. My attorney says  that “9 times out of 10” that getting a reasonable attorney involved will de-escalate things. By stepping back, hopefully it creates space for her to articulate her goals to her attorney and our two attorneys to facilitate a reasonable forward path.

I posted a little about the book I am reading by Kristen Neff on LNL’s string. It’s helping me refocus my energy on myself, making me feel OK with setting boundaries, deadlines and paying attention to my needs so I can assure my mothers needs are also met.

We aren’t going “off the grid” as you did, but the trip will be very low key and allow for lots of time in nature, hiking and time with long time friends. I am looking forward to having the space to focus inward. I will probably maintain contact with the attorney but will advise them of my intent to be “off the grid” officially with my sister. I am usually “on call 24/7” for emergencies at my hospital but that is being covered so I can silence my alerts while away. I may put an out of office on my personal email like I have at work. I am considering blocking  her number as well for that time period.

Thanks again!


Title: Re: Considering NC, need advice
Post by: Notwendy on August 28, 2022, 02:00:57 PM

We aren’t going “off the grid” as you did, but the trip will be very low key and allow for lots of time in nature, hiking and time with long time friends. I am looking forward to having the space to focus inward. I will probably maintain contact with the attorney but will advise them of my intent to be “off the grid” officially with my sister. I am usually “on call 24/7” for emergencies at my hospital but that is being covered so I can silence my alerts while away. I may put an out of office on my personal email like I have at work. I am considering blocking  her number as well for that time period.


I think the "unavailable" email is a great idea. I don't think you have to block her but just keep your phone on silent and/or also don't answer her calls. While I don't think it's wise to announce NC, I think it would help to send her a "I am going to be on vacation for 2 weeks. If you have any questions about the trust, please contact ___(lawyer) while I am away.

Much like you have someone covering for you at work while you are away, your lawyer is covering for you with your sister. Be very natural about this. Keeping the email "away message" neutral doesn't signal her out. Just an "I am away from my emails for 2 weeks, I will reply when I return". Then, you reply to the emails you choose to.


Title: Re: Considering NC, need advice
Post by: Mommydoc on August 30, 2022, 10:19:32 PM
I sent her an email on Monday, essentially as you described NotWendy, but we only made it about 24 hours into our vacation before the texts started coming. She has “called several lawyers” and she wants to know “ what my goals are” and “why I hired a lawyer” because “doesn’t make sense to the lawyers she consulted”. I wonder if they are seeing red flags, or whether she has actually even engaged. I decided to stick to my guns and not reply. She is trying really hard to pull me back in. By refusing to sign very basic trust documents, refusing the gifting until and trust accounting until she can get her own counsel, and now refusing to get an attorney who can guide her, she is forcing my hand and causing a lot of unnecessary (and expensive) drama.

I sent my attorney the texts and she told me nothing is time sensitive and not to respond until I am back but offered  to talk in the morning. It’s crazy.

I feel like I fed the fire last week by talking to her on the phone and trying to respond to  her requests via email. Any advice appreciated.

The good news it is so beautiful where I am and I am feeling an incredible sense of awe and relaxation being here. Trying to truly disconnect…



Title: Re: Considering NC, need advice
Post by: Notwendy on August 31, 2022, 04:38:54 AM
I think it's great you are on vacation and have a chance to relax.

Keep the boundary- her escalation might be the extinction burst. Hopefully she will cool down. Your lawyer can handle it if needed.

Have a great time on your vacation!


Title: Re: Considering NC, need advice
Post by: Riv3rW0lf on August 31, 2022, 11:21:49 AM


The good news it is so beautiful where I am and I am feeling an incredible sense of awe and relaxation being here. Trying to truly disconnect…



I propose putting the snooze button on her in your phone contacts to not have to read her texts and please, enjoy your time off. It is well deserved  :hug: