BPDFamily.com

Plain and simple.
There has been hot/col behavior, breadcrumbs and recycling BS.
I am no longer participating.

I said a lot of very blunt, honest things I have been holding back.
Im done not holding her accountable for her actions.

I HAVE BEEN LIVING IN FEAR OF LOSING SOMETHING I ALREADY LOST MONTHS AGO
and it has had me acting like a scared child.
I have not been respecting myself, and I have been putting her happiness before my own.

Nobody is attracted to someone with no self respect.
That crap ended this morning.

 |iiii

A big +1 to SinisterComplex's thumbs up!

OKrunch, I've been tracking your other thread for a while.  The decision to go NC is a big one, but I think you're on the right track.

I tracked your other thread also.  It was painful watching you get pulled back into her BPD web.  Have you been able to maintain no contact?   I am coming up on a month of NC and 2 months since breakup, best decision in this relationship I ever made.  Probably the only good decision in this relationship I ever made LOL

Hello OKrunch

sounds like you had a pretty big and emotional break through.

how are you feeling today a couple of days later?  Still in the same place or there about?

what was it like to come to the realization that you had undervalued your own worth?

'ducks

Runchie, how are you doing?

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

I had to take a step away from everything to try and get my head clear. Although it felt good to finally be honest with her and myself about the things that I said a couple weeks ago, the thought that I have driven her further away has been plaguing my mind as well. I can't say that I've gotten much more peace in the last two weeks, but things have gotten easier. I still think about it all the time and my feelings about her and what I would like for our future haven't really changed. The major difference is the fact that I realistically see how very very dead it truly truly is.

We did have a further bit of contact earlier this week, initiated by her but continued by me and eventually she said that she still needed space, said "We are toxic" (then why do you continue to make contact?) . More hot cold bread crumb bologna. Major difference is now that it's come to be what I expect so it doesn't surprise me or hurt my feelings anymore.



As much as I know any new relationship would almost certainly follow the exact same patterns I have seen play out a dozen times already, I still greatly fear her moving on with someone else.



I've been very good about social media though, I haven't been checking that at all for many weeks now.



The gut feelings, or spidey sense as I have referred to it before, has only seemed to have gotten stronger. That is one of the biggest questions I constantly ask myself. How do I get over somebody when I can literally sense when they're having a bad day, and as much as I know it makes me sound a little crazy to say that it's happened far too many times for me to dismiss it. But again, I ask, how am I supposed to get over the love of my life when I feel her every emotion?



Distracting myself has gotten a bit easier. Ever since the Titan sub incident, I have been going down a deep research rabbit hole about the Titanic. Titanic was something I was wildly fascinated with when I was a child well before the movie came out, so it's been nice to distract myself with Tales of sadness and heroism over a century gone by.

Easy to stop and realize how easy we have it in the modern day when you don't have to worry about dying penniless, covered in lice, sinking below the frozen waves of the North Atlantic in April. So, Silver Linings I suppose!

My heart is particularly heavy today.
I miss her a lot, and I really wish we could see eachother happily.

Hello OK,


I understand.  I think that's the way these intense bursts of emotions work, when we finally let go of what we have been hanging onto, there is a feeling of relief, but no intense emotion lasts, it burns itself out.    that's how it worked for me.   I went through a process of letting go.   it wasn't once and done.   it was a little bit at a time, here and there.


because it's not at all about logic.   it's not at all about thinking things through and reaching an understanding.  it's not about seeing and recognizing you as a full person with thoughts and feelings of your own.   it's irrational.  it's impulsive. it's about getting her core needs met in the moment.  it's about getting an intense need for attention met.    it's about finding an outlet for chaotic emotions through conflict.   it's about creating external drama to quiet the internal dialogue.

 
my first thought here OKrunch, is perhaps you are asking the wrong question?

why is it, do you think, that you feel her every emotion?  serious question.   what's the reason you feel her emotion?   

I'm going to suggest a different viewpoint.   maybe the reason you feel her emotion is not because of her being the love of your life.   

it says somewhere on this website that we have an unhealthy connection with an unhealthy person.    certainly, true of me.    what I found out was that hyper connection I had with my Ex wasn't entirely because of the love we shared but because our core wounds matched up so perfectly.    all of us have a wound somewhere, nobody gets through life without one.   for me,  my need to be loved, my need to have someone else raise my self-esteem and my low-grade bubbling depression was absolutely the flip side of the coin to her ability to project a false sense of self and high energy mania.    for a while we lined up like ducks on a pond.   if that makes sense.

perhaps the way to turn down the spidey sense is to figure out what is driving it, all the parts that may be driving it.     what do you think?

'ducks

Figured I would pop in for an updated.
Not much news, but she and I did end up hanging out 2 weeks ago, for one night.
She was interested, then changed her mind and backed off, then later that same night she decided to come over, then almost left again when she was in my parking lot. She did end up coming up to hang out and we had a nice night. Hung out, talked happily, and we did get intimate.
One major difference is that I have not chased, contacted or otherwise been clingy in any form.
We have continued to chat since. the Day after she had some "I shouldn't have come over" vibes, but I just let her speak her mind and move past it.
She came by my work the other day to srop some stuff of mine she found while cleaning the shed.
She had a pretty rough weekend last weekend, and was in a salty mood earlier this week. She does still complain an awful lot about many things. Money, Work, Car, House, Dogs, Parenting. she is frequently stressing.

I made it known I was free and had time to hang out this coming weekend, but I did not directly ask to hang out.
Her coming over 2 weeks ago was her Idea, and If she wants to again, she will ask, like she did before.

Biggest takeaway for me in the last few weeks is that I am not having the repsonse Ive had in the past.
If i dont see her again, whatever. If she wants to be wishy washy, whatever.

Its not effecting me in the larger picture, so it is what it is.

I have been doing well. Finally got my car all reapaired, and now aiming to start squirreling away money through the winter.
It will be a YEAR since the breakup on Sept 22nd, and that is rapidly approaching.

I hope you are all doing well.

Hey Crunch!

Sounds like you are finding some acceptance and emotional/mental space for yourself.  A year is a milestone for sure.

I like to say that in the second year, we have a real opportunity to compare "how far" we've come or rather how me may have evolved. Instead of comparing ourselves to "before vs after" the breakup - we can compare ourselves to ourselves "year 1 vs year 2) after the breakup. 

That helped me anyways.

Thanks for the update.

Rev

Not even sure if I should be on the detaching board anymore, but things certainly aren't getting back into a relationship. We have been in contact for a few weeks now, we have hung out a few times. That being said, things are kind of stagnant. It seems to be no interest in advancement of anything on her end. I'm sure she's still figuring her own crap out, but I don't really want to be relegated to a booty call.
While my emotional response to anything regarding her has faded almost to nothing, I don't really want to be in limbo forever. I've not shut the idea off of Just backing off and seeing if she follows.

My therapist always said she is like a cat.

Kind of in a weird spot right now and don't really know how to proceed.

The few times we have hung out, it has always been in the evening. We just kind of hang out and sometimes hook up. I have expressed to her more than once about wanting to go out during the day and do things. Go hiking, go walk around the seaport town. Stuff we used to do.
She never really directly answers me.
So she's not saying no, but we still aren't doing anything other than hanging out in the evenings occasionally.

I feel like if I continue to ask it's going to seem like pressure, and furthermore I told myself I'm not going to chase. She was the one who reached out a few weeks ago, and she was the one who invited me over again last weekend.

So as I said things feel like they're kind of at a stalemate, or like a plateau or a dead zone. Hard to explain.

Advice on how to proceed?

yes. stop winging it, man!  :(

reread your posts. think of where you were a year ago, or even months ago. you have an opportunity for a different outcome - even in the worst case scenario, a better outcome than then.

Detaching is a board for people that are deep into grieving and/or done with the relationship. in other words, people that either would kill to have this opportunity, or that think its a terrible idea.

on one hand, the relationship looks a lot the same. contact here and there, seeing each other here and there, you pushing, her pulling. and yet, the opportunity to reconnect, and reconnect on a healthier plane, has never been better.

she wants this OKrunch, but the trust isnt there. to go back into this, she would have to go back on her word (she swore back then that there would be no reconciling) and go against that distrust. i dont think thats likely to happen without a game plan, and a different approach. by and large, you are still taking the same approach. you can do that, and things might improve, and they might stay where they are, where things continue at this pace until they come to a head (that could go for quite a while), blow up, time is lost, and youre in pain again.

my advice? post on the Bettering board. learn the tools. work this. get support - these are challenging relationships, and you dont have to do this alone.

I think you’re right that this doesn’t really sound like you’re asking about detaching, what you seem to want — and this is me taking a bit of an intuitive leap — is to go back to the honeymoon. phase you had with her at the beginning.   I know that’s probably an oversimplification, but reading between the lines i think if you are honest with yourself that’s what you really want.

I am sorry to be the one to say it like this, but I think you know that isn’t coming back.  I also think you may be lying to yourself a bit by saying that you’ve pulled back and don’t care anymore.  You will likely feel the full weight of the trauma bond once you detach from her completely.  But, hey, I don’t need to be right just to justify where I am and the decisions I’ve made.  I hope, for your sake, that I’m wrong because the world doesn’t need another person who has been beaten down to their core by a BPD / NPD breakup.

I agree with this. Nothing I've ever read or any video I've watched has said that a relationship in this state comes back to the honeymoon phase...unless the person has done serious DBT work for years. Which hasn't happened here. In fact, no DBT work has been done and you're in the same toxic, cyclonic, back and forth state as before with even worse intermittent reinforcement now, and even less mental resilience as a result of the long-term purgatory you've been in.

For your sake, I would wish for you a happy relationship full of understanding and support. I would wish that for everyone here. But you've been pulled back into it and are now flailing, which is a horrible place to be.

With all the things my ex did and said to me, I too wanted her back and still do. My intellectual mind knows that what she did was wrong and abusive. My little me inside still wants her love, and my adult self still wants to "take care of her". BUT...I do have my self-respect intact. Whatever she thinks of me, if her stories she tells about me are true in her eyes, she can't deny that after being treated horribly, lying to me, ditching me over the holidays, yelling at me and calling me names, etc...I had enough. I have not called her, texted her or emailed her. I will not beg for her to come back, and I have not opened myself up to further twisting of the truth and lying should I reach out to her. I have, at least, that.

She once, when we were on a trip together over New Year, pulled up her computer after we had dinner and were just relaxing. She said "oh, my ex just emailed me". I said "oh?" not knowing what to say. She said "he sends me an email every year around Christmas". I said "does he want to get back together with you?" She replied "yes". I said what are you going to say to him, she said "nothing, I just delete it".

For years this guy has been emailing her, and she deletes it. She thought it important to share that with me, for some reason. I don't want to be that guy.

This is what I was referring to Crunch. This is back in June.

I'm not looking to return to the honeymoon phase. That would be an unrealistic expectation. The honeymoon phase is literally nothing but brain chemistry at the start of a relationship with a new person. I know enough to know that that is absolutely an unrealistic expectation, and would not be genuine anyway. For me I guess what it boils down to is the fact that we always orbit back to each other. I have tried dating other people in this past year. I have had success in doing so, but other people just don't measure up.



Insofar is what I said about not caring what the result is, obviously I have a preference as to what the end result would be. I'm also acutely aware of the several things she has done that has made it so I can't trust her. On top of that she continues to be aloof and dodgy.



What I will say is that I do not have any expectation that this will turn back into what we tried to have in the past. It's a possibility, but it's a highly unlikely one. But at the end of the day I love who I love. I miss my dogs and it was wonderful to see them.

Intimate relations with anybody else pale in comparison, so that's kind of a driving Factor as well.



What I can tell you is different, is that I'm not chasing. I'm not telling her that I love her and that I miss her and all these things. Because right now I don't love her, she hasn't earned that. But it would be a lie to say that she isn't the person that I want to spend my time with.



Take this upcoming weekend for example. She Knows my availability and she knows that we can probably hang out this weekend.  I am not going to ask.

As I stated before I definitely have my preferences as to how I would like things to go, but the ball is very much in her Court and I'm not going to stop or stifle my own life while I'm waiting for her to make up her mind.

And while I realize the honeymoon phase coming back is an unrealistic occasion and is not going to happen, I will say that if her and I are going to be seeing each other and spending time together, she needs to put in an equal amount of effort in doing so as well as an equal amount of effort in being emotionally available. If these things do not occur,  I will fade away and take my attention elsewhere

This is classic trauma bond at work here.  It makes it difficult / impossible to connect with others while you are in its clutches.  This is your mind playing tricks on you.  Man, I don’t know what to tell you, I think you are so deep in the trauma bond it is clouding your thinking.  If she was able to show up for you, she’s had a year or more to do that.  I was waiting for mine to show up for me too, but she couldn’t — or she would have already done so.  I hope against all odds things work out with you and this woman, but she needed to be in DBT (and many more things) by her own choosing 5-10 years BEFORE she met you, for there to be a chance.  I just don’t want to see you throw many more years away waiting for her to show up.   If every other woman “pales in comparison” to her then you’re interest in her isn’t just going to fade away, man.  You’re going to tell yourself that it will, but a year from now you’ll be just as trauma bonded as you are now, if not more, unless you adjust your thinking, bro.

I'm not waiting for her. I'm living my life, and I'm not stopping new relationships or opportunities in my life on her account.

Do other women measure up? Not yet.
Do I miss what good we had? Definitely
Will I just lay down for more mistreatment?
Hell to the no no no.

This is very much a "balls in her court, she can crap or get off the pot" scenario.

Insofar as the trauma bond is concerned, my therapist has told me many times I'm past that and I trust her professional opinion above all others. She knows me well and knows my situation well.
I definitely was trauma bonded, but I worked thru that.

I'm doing well by myself. But at the end of the day the heart wants What It wants.
It's not in me to force myself to hate someone that I care about just because they are still on their own personal journey.

I'm perfectly contented with my life as it is, and I know I only add value to hers.
If she chooses to be alone and fight the ride by herself, that's on her head not mine.

Hey man, look I hope what you say is true and that you are free of her clutches, just because I made the decision to leave mine doesn’t mean that I need for everyone else to make the same decision.  I’m just having a hard time buying it.  The title of this thread is “back to no contact for good” and yet here you are in contact with her again.  I don’t know your situation the way you do, but on the surface it reminds me of my own cycle of charming and getting back with her and being discarded again.  “The heart wants what the heart wants” can be true, but have you considered why your heart seems to want someone who treated you so poorly and continues to not value you?   Personally I would call that: “the trauma bond wants what the trauma bond wants” and I still have many moments back in that space so i’m saying that for myself too.

You make good points here. Full reply incoming

this is all ringing quite true, as I have been being ghosted once again. She only seems to call when she is lonley or wants sex.
It's a matter of respect, or lackthereof.
Im not here to be a sex toy on demand, or to hang by the phone waiting.
Nothing about this scenario has been balanced or fair for many months.
Done asking how high when she "blesses" me by asking me to jump.
come correct or eff off.
those be the choices.

What happened?

Conversation fell off, she got to the point where her responses were short, or even one worded.
I wasnt blowing her phone up, and I sent a "Hey hows it going" yesterday, after not having talked for a day or two.

Nothing in response.
We each have our "free weekend" where our kids are with their other parents, on the same week as eachother, which is this weekend.

Two weeks ago, we hung out. Two weeks prior to that, we hung out.
I guess i built an expectation that we would again this weekend, but instead shes ghosty.

I havent reached out except the one time yesterday. Just leaving it alone.
Ive said before im not chasing her, and I wont be.

There are severa reasons she could be out of communication.
Some of which are benign, and unrelated to "us"
others which could be less good for "us".

But trying to guess will not help at all.

Long story short: I dont feel respected. I dont feel like she genuinley cares how I am doing, or is interested in the conversations that used to flow so easily and for hours.
She is out of "Give-A-Crap" and I need to match that energy.

This is unbalanced.

youre not going to reconcile, or likely form, or frankly even successfully detach from a relationship by playing "he who cares the least wins".

remember, this is not a competition. you are attempting to court her. she isnt trying to match your energy, here.


is the issue here that youre frustrated again by your expectations, and the fact that things arent moving at a faster pace?

I found myself in this exact position, Krunch. And it sucks. You know she's free, she knows you're free, she's not communicating, you're afraid to communicate in case it pisses her off, you want her to want to spend time with you, it's not matching what happened previously in similar situations, if you ask her what's going on she may or may not reply, if she does reply it might be non-committal one word, or it might be "you're too NEEDY!"...and on and on.

Completely stuck and, worse, fully, 100%, dependent on her mood, energy, whatever.

If someone wants to communicate with you they will. If someone want to hide from you they will.She would get 'secretive' in a way that felt deceitful and manipulative...one word answers that didn't makes sense.

 Mine would go DAYS without communicating, the first time I asked her why she wasn't communicating- it was so weird, up to that moment we used to text freely throughout the day, she initiating it most of the time, call a couple times if we couldn't be together, share our day-and she EXPLODED at me telling me I have a "mental problem and I'm controlling, get mental health help!"

This was because she had texted early Sat morning that she was going early to the market we always went together to after my work at around 11am, saying her son had a lot of homework. I texted her a couple times, called once, and didn't hear from her again until Sunday afternoon when I asked why she wasn't communicating. Now, it was strange since when her son previously had huge projects to work on, taking 10 or 11 hours a day, she still would call and text and send updates and photos of the project. But, now, her son has a lot of homework and...she can't text or call.

Set up. I do not miss the wondering and trying to figure it all out.

Well the hot cold cycle that started in June has ran its course.
We are back at square one, and not talking again.

With the argument that occured yesterday morning, it was made quite clear all this past 2 months was, was her being single, lonley and horny. she scornfully told me she is "blissfully unattached" right now, which I found odd.

She never expressed any emotional interest, and was pretty cold and aloof the entire time.
Had the first chat with my therapist in a while yesterday afternoon.

I explained to her that I felt used, strung along and devalued, much like I did back in Janurary when she basically pulled the same thing. Lasted about the same length of time then too. a few weeks of good contact, sex, and then it fades over about a month until she tells me to piss off again.

I explained to therapist that everything felt dead, and emotionless from EX, and this felt like that last gasp.
Therpaist was shaking her head, and I asked "What, you really think shes going to circle back AGAIN? It feels pretty damn dead at this point"
Therapist replied "she always has, and I believe to some degree she always will"
To which i replied that I thought this time It would be many months if not a year before she tried again.
Again my therpist disagreed and said I should keep my guard up and that she would likely temp check again between Halloween and Thanksgiving, which i found to be quite a shocking assesment.

Moving on, to ME.

Unlike in past "disconnection" phases, I am waking up calm, whereas in the past ive woken with my stomach already in knots.
I am looking at it a lot more rationally this time around, and while my mind still (as always) is swimming with questions and trying to figure out WTF she does and why, its a lot less obsessive.
I just want peace.
I am trying to look back and see that there never was peace, at least for any duration longer than a month or two.
Things i need to figure out
1.) why does she have such specific power to flare my emotions?
2.) why am i so attached to the idea of her / us? when history has shown me i should be the opposite.
3.) She has said so many contradictory things, its hard to seperate fact from fiction at this point. I need to see through, and see all of this for what it actually is.
4.) Why am I so attached to being attached? I hate being single, and In the past I have always flourished most when I am in a relationship, Why is that? and How can I flourish when I am alone, so that I am my best, and attract the most compadible person for me, rather than grasping to the corpse of a relationship that has blown up in my face several times.
5.) Taking off the rose colored glasses - Even after ALL the things she has done to hurt me, when i let my mind wander, it always goes right to happy memories of her, how beautiful I think she is and so on. Despite all she has done to kick me while down and to shove me out in the cold (literally) without a care for my and my sons wellbeing.
Why do i continue to glorify someone who has treated me so poorly?

My goal moving forward is that of improvement.
I need to have my behavior exhibit the self respect i feel in my heart.
My actions have not matched my feelings, and I have been letting depression and sloth run my life for a year now.

Sept 22nd is the one year mark of our second breakup.
it is time to get off the damn pity potty and live my life.
Live my life for me and my son, not constantly worrying what actions will put her path back towards mine.

I've posted a few things on your thread Krunch, and I've followed along. It's been painful to witness the torment you've been going through. I see myself very clearly in your struggles with her, and I recognize the thinking and confusion.

I think the questions you are asking are very, very important. I'm glad you posted them because they will be the questions that many of us ask. They are very generalizable to relationships with pwBPD.

And I believe they are indicate a new phase for you. These are very important questions to explore. Why does she have so much power over you (us)? Why, when we know exactly what has happened and the horrible things they called us/said to us AND did to us, do we still 'need' them?

The answers will lead us to the deeper issues.

I KNOW that in my case, and maybe yours, it was a deep-seated NEED to be loved. A feeling that this person held the key to my happiness in life. A feeling that them loving us will free us from the self-doubt and fear that we aren't good enough.

Mine comes from my childhood. No question about it. I know this.

I hope you can keep looking into these questions and find some answers.

I just need to get her of the darn pedestal and see clearly.
it takes me all of 5 min to forget the bad things she does, and go back to reminiscing.
Same with the way she has ejected my son and I over and over, and I just think how i miss my "stepdaughter"
I have gotten into a cycle of allowing abuseive behaviors, and allowing them in exchange for a slim, fleeting chance at anything ressebling reconcilliation.

My best friend said "If she was the right one, she never would have thrown you and your son out on your butts, TWICE"

I just hope I can get to the point where I dont see her as this flawless perfect thing, and I can put myself before her.

Self respect is attractive, and i honestly think that plays a huge role in why she faded off again.
I was too invested.

Trying to get back in the swing of things in a life entirely without her contact or input.
The last blowout we had could have been avoided, granted she opened with "Ive thought about it and I dont want to hang out again."
This is where i should have just said "Ok, you do you, see ya around"
And I did not.

Now, I didn't "Beg and plead" either, but I did continue the conversation longer than i shouldve and I made it clear I would prefer not to lose touch again, which i think honestly weakens my position.

The fact of the matter is this though, I have said numerous times, I want her to choose me entire.
Not keep me a secret, Not to be 2nd option.
I reitterated this when we spoke, and I dont think I am wrong in setting that boundary.
I have determined that this secret mode, every once in a while booty call type dynamic is NOT healthy for me.
It keeps me attached, and prevents me from moving on.
She has said almost the exact thing when explaining why we shouldnt talk anymore.
So its contradictory. She recognizes the same reason I see this as not healthy,
But at the same time, I will be dead honestly surprised If I get through Christmas without hearing from her again.

She may pretend a lot better than I do, but she is NO BETTER at letting go than I am.

She reacted poorly when I told her I felt like I was being used for sex and validation.
She balked at my use of the word "Used", and got defensive about it. However later in the conversation said "Geeze, I just wanted to get laid. You always blow everything out of proportion"
Which is basically an admission of "using me for sex"
She got defensive about it because it smacked a bit to much of Truth for her comfort level.

Here is my biggest takeaway from this weekend.
I HAVENT CHANGED MUCH.
I still need to get my fitness, diet (im not overweight, I just eat like garbage) and other personal aspects of my life in order.
I still continue some of the behaviors that caused attraction to dip in the first place.
I failed at quitting smoking, I dont  work out, and I spend far too much of my attention in distraction activities like gaming or reading.
I am not being productive enough with my time.
If i can fix these issues, my financial situation will be better, I will be more physically fit, and generally in better mental health.
Thereby becoming the best and most attractive version of myself.

Goals:
Get set into workout routine on a solid, everyday consistant basis by Halloween.

Be better at meal prep for health and financial reasons. Being lazy is expensive AND unhealthy.

Finally, fully, quit smoking.

Retool resume, decide on future career path.

OKrunch, you have been here before.

do you think that all of this is mostly "preparing for the next round, with the same game plan"?

the only preparing for "next round" I am doing is bolstering my willpower to avoid and ignore future interactions.

if you make the conscious and active choice to detach, let go of the relationship, and move on from it, future interactions are beside the point. they wont change anything either way.

is that what you want to do?

"future interactions are beside the point. they wont change anything either way."
I dont understand what youre trying to say here.

My choices are stay the way things are and have been, and continue to be hurt and ignored, OR to hear what she said, that its done, and walk away.

I've been pouring from my empty glass, into hers which has a massive hole in it and can never be filled.
I'm done loving someone who only shows me vitriol and indifference in return.

Do I wish we could move on and have a new, fresh, and healthy relationship?
Heck yea I do.
However,
A.) she doesn't and has made that clear.
B.) That could only happen if we are both equally commited to it, and we aren't.

My therapist said she will be surprised if I get past Halloween without her reaching out,
but she has no reason to other than to keep us both attached, and hurting eachother.
Unless she comes to me with some massive emotional breakthrough, it will only be more breadcrumbs if she does.

Im all set with crumbs, I want a loaf

because if youre done, youre done. theres no going back. if she tries to reach you on christmas, halloween, or hanukkah, youll still be done, whatever she has to say, and whether or not you want to hear it.

she cant keep you attached. youre not at the mercy of her proximity. you are, have been, treating this all as if you are, as if you have no say in determining that the relationship is dead, and isnt coming back.

sure, its easier to do when the person youre trying to detach from is out of sight and less out of mind. but Detaching is the active commitment to let go.

its not bolstering the willpower to ignore her. its not planning around when she will or wont reach out (that is essentially what you are doing). its not "back into no contact - for good - and this time i really mean it!".

when you were trying to reconcile the relationship i encouraged you to think about what was broken about the relationship, and how if, possible, it was going to be fixed.

part of Detaching is determining that it cant be, or that its not going to be, or that at least, youd just as soon rather not.


these are reasons that the relationship isnt currently available to you. they arent reasons why the relationship, for you, is over.

if you want to Detach, find what is fundamentally broken, and begin to take steps to actively let it go.

That... is... brilliant.

The relationship is OVER for several reasons, fighting, 2x A type personalities, past trauma, our past fights, etc.

I have tried many times to work on these things, both on my own and with her.
I have made progress on my own, but couples therapy disintigrated for us. rapidly.

Insofar as why I am DONE? totally different answer.
I think I have made quite clear the issues of ghosting, disrespect, lies etc.
I have not been treated well.

She doesn't want to fix anything. She has told me this verbatim.

Lastly, I no longer trust her.
And I don't want to have to play head games and psych stratagies just to have a somewhat operable relationship.

I said before my love for Dr Jekyll was enough to defeat Mr Hyde. I was wrong.
And its not just her. I am a hopless romantic, the type of love I have and want to recieve is scary and engulfing to her.
She literally told me "I cant give you what you want"
And she doesnt want what I have to give.

Despite how well we CAN connect, it has to be mutually worked at and on.
just because we do have good emotional, physical and mental connections, doesnt mean we arent also like Bleach and Ammonia.
When we mix for too long, Sh*t gets toxic.

I am in the process of quitting smoking again right now.
Very comparable. I enjoy smoking, i dont necessarily want to quit, but It is effecting my health, and needs to go.
I have been paying thousands of dollars a year to be slowly killed.

The last 6 months with her feels much the same, so im done.

Im not waiting for the next interaction, I dont hope for it, and I am not planning anything for it beyond doing what I need to in order to ensure I wont cave if she pops up and bats her eyelashes.
No different than asking for a smoke while I am drinking, I know it will just lead me back down the path of everyday addiction.

Ill never be able to to reconcile what she did to my son.
It will always cause a grudge.
Im done.

This past Saturday was a full year since we split.
A year of yo-yo-ing. A year of confusion, hot and cold, and being used for validation and support but only when needed.

I woke up with a lot of emotion today. A fair bit of indignation, and anger.
The betrayal still hurts, but I am glad I am past the point of putting myself on the chopping block just for the chance to earn her crumbs.
She has lied, and used.
Not the type of person I want to spend my life with, despite being the person I wanted to spend my life with.

Just Journaling - I sent this to my therapist earlier.

"This past Saturday was 1 full year of our breakup. So I took some time this weekend to reflect on what has occured over the past year. YEAR. 365 days. I have been roped back in, only to be discarded again, AND blamed for it, no less than 3 times. I have remained consistant in the face of her back and forth waffling I have been the one blamed for every argument, "Overcommunication" and most of the fault of the breakup. Its Ego. I want to hear from her to know I still have my own power. I want her to want me so she knows how ive felt while being held at arms length, but now allowed to detach. I want to hear her say she PLEASE READ (https://bpdfamily.com/safe-site.htm)ed up. I want to hear her say I am the best shes had. NONE OF THESE THINGS MATTER and NONE OF THESE WILL HAPPEN. How Do I stay mad? How do I stay in a place where I know I am worth more than what she can provide? How do i resist the reach out when she realiszes Ive blocked her everywhere and she has to prove to herself I am still available to her? How do I say no to the best sex ive ever had, or the easiest person to laugh with I have ever met?"

I am in the right mindset now, I just need to take the steps needed to STAY HERE, and not put the rose colored glasses back on after a few weeks of silence.
My mind defaults to the happy memories, hers to the bad ones.

Well it depends how serious you are about disconnecting from her.  If you truly can’t resist her reach outs then you would want to change your phone number, email addresses, and also move away so she can’t find you.  If I was in your position, I would do those things and also get into every therapy and treatment I could find (PTSD, Psychadelics, alternative, spiritual, etc) Otherwise this process will just keep repeating since you have said you can’t resist her.  All of what you describe about her was the same for me too, it can be very hard to disconnect, but never is it impossible.

Still in therapy, Looking at changing jobs so I cant be found at my current one anymore.
Working with my therapist regarding psycadelics as a cotrisol/dopamine reset tool.
All social media and phone numbers currently blocked.

Cape, I do want this to work, or rather, I did.
Despite all of her redeeming qualities, I cannot in good faith, ever trust her again.
BECAUSE i know how weak I am to her, because I love her, I need to completley and entirely leave this in my past.
1000%.

I want what I know We can never have again, and for that reason alone, like an alchoholic who can never sip a drink again, I must completely and surgically cut this out of my life.

I have mourned for the lost years, for the failed opportunities, for the happy memories, and most of all, for what the kids lost.
My son loved her and her daughter, her daughter loved me and my son.
Theirs is the saddest loss.

I will continue to think on all this, today my thoughts are clouded with ashen clouds.
My frustration and anger about the whole situation are high today.
I am trying not to make any stupid knee jerk decsisons
(For example I got a cardboard box from my work and was going to go home and collect every item that had any sort of history or sentimental value, pack it away and ship it to her house)
Which I am not planning on doing anymore.
Ill probably just throw it all in the dumpster instead.

Two full weeks no contact today.

Still getting random intrusive thoughts and stomach pangs.
I have not checked socials, unblocked or reached out.

Conversation with an old female friend going well.

I still often think about when she will find some way to touch base, but its more trying to be arware and prepared for it.
I hope it doesnt happen.

To respond to both of your last 2 messages, for the sentimental things, I would just throw it all in the dumpster.  Not to be insensitive towards your past, but to get those things out of your life.  That’s what I did, just threw it all away because I knew going through the things or returning them to her would just result in more pain and delay healing.

Putting time (more NC) between you and your ex will help, though sometimes not as fast as you might like.  I found doing things like “Practicing the Power of Now” every day helped me when the pain got to be too much.  i still practice it every day.  There is also a chapter on relationships that is especially good for people in our situation (post breakup with BPD and possible codependency issues.)

It's wise to realize that when you're in a heightened emotional space, you may not be tending towards centered/grounded long term decisions.

Shipping her items to her is staying in contact with her. Only you can decide if you want to engage in that kind of contact.

A long term friend of ours was in a relationship with a dBPD woman. When they broke up, he gave us a bunch of "connection" stuff (items she'd made for him, some joint paperwork, the receipt for the engagement ring, etc). We promised we'd hold it for a year and then if we hadn't heard any direction from him, we'd toss it. After <1 year he did ask if we still had it (needed a piece of paperwork), and he ended up burning everything in our fire pit.

I had a couple of "normal" breakups and I threw away/gave away lots of "relationship items" very quickly. I regret some of those, not because I want the connection with the person, but because the things were super cool (stuff from Iraq and Nepal).

All that to say:

It can take more than just a few days or a few weeks to figure out how to process "relationship items". I wonder if you have a friend who would take the box for a period of time.

Of course, the dumpster route makes a lot of sense, too.

More "big waves" in the gut today, but I am the lighthouse in the tempest.

Amazing how powerful the brain chemicals are.
Damn you Dopamine. Damn you Cortisol.

My therapists most recent words have become a repeated mantra.

" She doesn't ever go over a month and a half without reaching out for some reason or another. I feel that seeking other's company might be best for you in the long run. You will never get what you need from her and she will never be willing to give it to you. You deserve to have a healthy, reciprocal relationship. "

Keep repeating this to yourself everyday "You will never get what you need from her and she will never be willing to give it to you. You deserve to have a healthy, reciprocal relationship"

You just gotta figure this out on your own and you will.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

wellI looked at what I can see on social media today like a dummy.

New profile pic, she looks happy, healthy, and like she cropped someone very close out of her photo.
Probably another new boyfriend on the horizion.

I shouldnt have looked and I am mad that i did because now i yet again feel like worthless replaceable secondhand crap.

Hooray for mondays

Yep.

SHe just messaged me to tell me shes seeing someone.
I knew I woke up with a feeling in my guts today.

I didnt reply and just kept everything dead and blocked.
i am hurting but she wont see it.

So very very done

I’m sorry for what you are going through OKrunch. Hang in there. Try not to be hard on yourself. The feelings will subside, and this community is here to support you.

Yup, keep your head up Crunch- it takes time to heal. 

Your "gut feelings" are the anticipation of more trauma, and if you're truly done then she can't traumatize you anymore.  It's time to heal and move on to a healthy lifestyle without all that chaos and heartache.

I feel for you brother, but this is not the end of the road.  It's just a new chapter in your life's journey.

The fact that she goes out of her way to message me about it and specifically inform me. Like she's doing me some sort of favor or service it's just a Twist of the knife that is completely unnecessary. Why do that?

Seems like a deliberate power play to me.

there is no power struggle anymore, OKrunch. neither of you are competing for power here.

she probably told you as a heads up to protect your feelings (you told her you wanted to know), thinking itd be better coming from her than otherwise, and/or as a way of saying goodbye. well intentioned, but theres really no good way for you to find out, and this wasnt it either.

im sorry. its a really awful thing to wake up to. ive been there. its like somebody throwing a bomb on your life.

if there is a silver lining, its that sometimes when an option is removed from our lives, it opens new ones that couldnt have opened before. try to lean into that when things are hardest - it will get better.

we will continue to be here to support you through all of this.

As evidenced, there could be many interpretations, without a definite answer.

I remember how my ex told me he had a girlfriend. I was in a similar situation where we would be close at times and distant at others. One day, we were on a phone call, and I said something flirty. He chose this moment, in the middle of the conversation, to say `I have a girlfriend` along with `you should be ashamed of yourself` and `aren't you embarassed?`. I know I wouldn't have spoken in the same way if he had told me sooner. It certainly felt like the way he went about telling me was intentionally hurtful. Looking back, I can also see that maybe he didn't know how to bring it up. 

I finally have come to a place where I recognize that people's actions, including the timing and manner in which they communicate such news, are influenced by their own emotions, insecurities, and intentions and it's important not to internalize their choices. You're allowed to feel hurt, and validate your own feelings, regardless of what her intention may have been.

My brother, you're still giving her far too much power- who cares what she thinks or does?

There's three different goals you're trying to accomplish at the same time here, and they all get in the way of one another:

1. You're trying to put her in the past and move on.
2. You're still waiting for a genuine apology or at least an explanation.
3. You're waiting for her to reach back out on yet another rebound

Let's start with #2...you're never ever ever going to get that.  She's treated you poorly because she's mentally ill.  That's the entire story here, that her thoughts are dysregulated and you're expecting normal conversation from someone that's disordered. You have to let this go- she will not genuinely apologize and revert back to the former version of herself.

Now let's talk about #3.  For over a year now, you've moved on, welcomed her back, had your heart broken, and then tried to move on all over again.  This is the 3rd or 4th time in a year?  It's a clear pattern and the bad far outweighs the good each and every time.  While maybe you can't stop her from reaching out, you can control what you say to her- you tell her that you've had enough and are not interested in her anymore.

There will always be a voice in the back of your head saying how awesome she was, how you can still somehow get that stuff back.  My brother, that voice is a liar!  You have to stop listening to it and truly move on here.

For point #1, you haven't been able to move on because you've been so caught up on points #2 and 3.  I say this with all the love I can possibly muster here, she's terrible for you and it is time to pick the pieces back up and move on.

BPDFamily,

Thank you all for your patience and support.

Evidently detachment is something I thought I had a handle on (I'm getting there!), and specifically hard for me.
My therapist really helped me out and had me re-do a task she had me do early in our sessions, and that was make a Pro/Con list of sorts.

It was very helpful, and I am working on keeping that in my head as it has been a massive turbo boost to my moving forward.

I feel like I crossed a barrier yesterday.
THe last 48 hours or so, I have felt more resolute, my first thoughts of her when I have them are of dismissal, even disgust. I do still eventually dwell on things like I have in the past, but I've found it easy to jostle myself out of that thought pattern.

I also saw a post here recently, apologies as I cannot recall which thread, but it said something to the effect of

"I originally wasn't super attracted to my ex, but eventually she was like Selma Hayek to my eyes"

I also experienced this. There was a dramatic shift in my attraction level to her pre and post breakup (BOTH times).
This is a pretty strong indicator of brain chemistry paths than it is of love of any sort.

For the first time in EVER, being in NC feels like a privilege, instead of an atonement.
It feels like liberation instead of begging for crumbs with silence.
Because this is the first time I've ever been doing it, in earnest, for myself.
Before I was doing it for her and lying to myself that it was for me.

Will i still have intrusive thoughts, miss her, the dogs, the kids together, etc?
Hell yea I know I will.
However for the first time I feel like a sober person willingly, confidently and without temptation refusing a drink, as opposed to the months spent fighting the urge and craving it.

I have attachment issues, and I am addicted to validation from others.
Its time I validate my damn self.

You are all wonderful gems. I appreciate each and every one of you.

With Thanks,
OKrunch.

I'm so glad you've had a breakthrough and it sounds like you're starting to find a better path.  Hate and disgust is a part of the grieving process, at the point where you realize, "Hey, wait a second...she wasn't good to me."  That's perfectly normal and you should take the time to really process that stuff.  It's painful to relive those memories, for sure, but it also sets your mindset moving forward that it's just not acceptable anymore.  Think of it like the final boundary in your path to healing.

I remember hitting that point around the five month mark after separation and for two or three days, I felt like I could breathe fire.  I was so mad that I just sat back and took abuse that I clearly didn't deserve, and it's like a thousand things suddenly clicked that I previously couldn't hear.  My anger quickly faded though and led me to the next step, which was acceptance and the realization that I could stand on my own two feet, all by myself, and actually be content in life.

I am proud of you brother and I'm still rooting for you hard.  Please don't take this the wrong way, but the biggest thing that stands in your way of recovering from this relationship at this point is yourself.  So keep your head up, get out there and do Okrunch-like things, and you will eventually be past this.

Wow. You even sound like a newly sober person with real clarity! And there's a lack of the kinda high-energy upset/desperate/drowning man energy in your writing.

Congratulations.

Keep going ... you've worked hard to get here.

We appreciate you too.

Rev

Well you've taken a while, but it appears you have at least heeded some of my words. ;-) I am happy to hear you will be validating yourself from now on. However, keep this in mind...this needs to be a permanent practice regardless of whom is in your life. No more having YOU dictated by external forces. Work on internally validated yourself. You can do it. Keep your head up amigo.

Please be kind to you and take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Wow.

That doesn't deserve a wow or the wow...this does

"For the first time in EVER, being in NC feels like a privilege, instead of an atonement.
It feels like liberation instead of begging for crumbs with silence.
Because this is the first time I've ever been doing it, in earnest, for myself.
Before I was doing it for her and lying to myself that it was for me."

To see how long you have been here and to see you get to the point you are at now with help from the whole community is where you need to place the WOW! Pat yourself on the back and hold your head up high. You do not need my validation or anyone else's for that matter. Just your own! Good job!  |iiii

As I urged one of other members to do. Update us regardless of good or bad. Keep engaging and keep healing.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Man, social medial platforms really perpetuate this stuff.
I have had all forms of social media blocked, and she has me blocked on her end.
I've blocked cross-platform, deleted and reinstalled, done every imaginable step to make sure all channels are shut down.

And yet, she profile picture STILL continues to show up in my suggested section on messenger.
This wouldn't be too much of a problem but messenger is my primary method of talking to a lot of friends and family.
Despite this annoying reoccurring issue, I am doing pretty well.

In the last 5 days, the profile pic has changed 3 times, from the first one i mentioned, to one of them together, to another of them all lovey dovey. I honestly thought it would really really piss me off.
It had admittadley caused some intrusive thoughts but I expected that.
I'm a bit shocked that my reaction is.....amused. Pity even.
I always said in the past that "her meeting someone and having a real happy relationship" was my biggest fear.
The profile pic thing only shows me that she is in the roil of yet another honeymoon phase (not even the only one in the past year)
This tells me nothing will ever change, and that I need to keep everything blocked, lest I become a triangulation target in 4-6 months when things get boring for her, as they inevitably will.
It honestly just makes me feel bad for this dude.

i talked with my therapist about how i had been feeling frustrated that I wasn't "Over it and indifferent yet", and she told me its an addiction, and will not just go away in the blink of an eye.

I am not in a state of anger, or depression like I was.
The most persistent and annoying symptom currently is what I have come to call
"Cognitive Dissonance Confetti"
Random, brief intrusive thoughts that are almost always tidbits of happy memories.
Moments on vacation, times with the kids, getting the dogs, holidays, etc.
They're oddly specific little slices of time, that I didn't give much thought at during the moment.
They have seemingly turned into little reminders of the life I thought we would build, but in reality never ever would be able to sustain.
They feel like nuggets of betrayal. All the times I thought we were most happy, and that turned out to be smoke and mirrors, so if they catch me in an already bad mood, they can certainly do a solid amount to ruin my day.

The profile pic thing is in my head more than it should be. Its 10000% honeymoon phase stuff, but part of me (and my damn trauma bonded ego mind) keeps saying "is she trying to make you jealous, or is she just happy for now" The profile pic changes didnt start until after our convo on Oct 2nd where she told me she "met someone that makes me so happy" Part of me feels like she keeps changing them to more intimate ones because I havent responded to any of these by reaching out or anything, which WILL NOT be happening.

I still feel good, and happy even.
This stuff has just turned into to so much background static in my mind.
I can't wait till it finally goes all the way away.

is her profile picture telling you all that, or does the idea that their relationship will fall apart, and that she will come back in 4-6 months, and that you will be in a position to reject her, soothe the feelings and fears that come up from the pictures?

i point this out gently. i did the very same thing. youre hurting, and probably in shock, like i was. its an understandable coping mechanism to reach for.

in my case, i couldnt stop looking at her profile picture (i did it by choice) and the picture could be completely innocuous, and id still go into a ruminating tailspin for hours on end. i know how much it sucks, especially when youre going out of your way to avoid seeing it, and its still there.


if she had died, would the goal be to "be over it and indifferent"?

you dont (cant) let someone go by trying to make yourself not feel anything toward them. all that does is block what youre really feeling, and feeling those things is, ironically, how you move through them, and resolve them.

it is self defeating. it keeps you stuck, and, ironically, attached.


you are grieving, OKrunch. you loved her a lot, and you miss her. and, in a vulnerable place like this, it really hurts to have those feelings, and youd rather just have them gone.

to "get over" a relationship, you mourn it. you grieve it. you feel the loss. and then you let it go.

you havent allowed yourself to do that, presumably because its too painful, and attachment, while painful, is a psychologically less frightening alternative. i wouldnt have expected you to, at this point, and like i said, youre probably in shock. it took me probably around six months to accept that my relationship was over, and not coming back. i wondered why i didnt feel indifferent, too, and god knows i tried, but then i just felt worse about myself.

it was ironic, because throughout a lot of the relationship, a part of me wanted to leave. i tried to break up with her many times. most of them were just an effort to get my way, or to change things, but, several of them were in earnest. and then, after 3 years, she dumped me out of the blue (it wasnt at all out of the blue, but it felt like it at the time), and jumped into a new relationship in about a week. suddenly, no part of me wanted to leave. it wasnt a trauma bond, or an addiction. it was an emotional ass kicking. i felt powerless, rejected, and abandoned. i was all of those things. i couldnt bear it.

when you arent prepared to let someone go, and they take away your choice, it is soul crushing. it rocks your world.


you can call it an addiction, you can call it a trauma bond (which has more to do with stockholm syndrome than a bad breakup), but reading into her pictures as a means to reach you, or try to make you jealous, is usually just a way of coping and clinging to that attachment, because the idea that there is nothing behind it, (or that your fears might come true) is psychologically scarier. it is the Bargaining Stage of Grief.

when i lost my dad, my mother and i attended a grief counseling group called Grief Share. one of the first things that they told us, and taught us in the workbook, was to "accept that this person is gone, and not coming back". only by doing so can you really begin to grieve, and work through it.

i didnt realize it at the time, but thats what i was doing around 6 months, when her relationship was still going strong. after waiting for the relationship to end (it lasted 4 years), and waiting for the day that shed come back, trying to hate her, trying to feel nothing, fantasizing about rejecting her, or just crying like a baby, i accepted that we were over, that she was gone, and never coming back. it was the hardest thing ive ever done, in some ways harder than losing my dad and while i felt worse in the short term, because i was finally allowing myself to really feel that loss, it marked the moment that i began to get better.

i say all of this, not because i expect you to accomplish it overnight, but because those very things i did, that you are doing, will only prolong your pain. and while that pain will eventually dull (as pain always does), you risk carrying it as baggage into the next relationship.

she was a love of your life. its a substantial loss, and that loss will hurt, for a while. but she wont be the only love of your life; she was one of what will be many. there will be things about her you will want to find in a future partner, and things you certainly will want to avoid in a future partner. there will be memories you may cherish, and memories you might rather forget.

let yourself mourn and grieve all of it. the future is new memories.

It truly is amazing what can happen in short spans of time, when you actually apply yourself.

Since shifting my mindset from "NC can win her back" to "I will not be used again, and NC is for me to heal"
Has been so productivly profound.

Whereas my intrusive thoughts used to ruin entire days and spiral me into depression, the past week or so, they have only prompted feelings of being able to breathe, recognition of the toxic loop trap I was in, and I AM SLEEPING NORMALLY.

DONT DO WHAT I DID AND PROLONG YOUR HEALING.
Full blown NC, no peeking, no seeking, no hoping, no wishing, no pining, no whining.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE.

Life is good. you are all gems.
May all the happiness that Autumn can bring fill your homes with love and contentment.

It would appear that the levee has broken..... 

Keep on keeping on as the saying goes.

Good for you brother!  So happy that you're happy.  Please keep in touch so we can monitor your progress- you have a lot of people rooting for you here!

I have some amazing things on the horizon.
I have been having simply the most amazing connections with an old crush/friend from high school.
We haven't had a chance to hang out yet, due to shceduling, but things are going well.

I have talked to my therapist about how this is all unfolding, and she has given me nothing but green lights and good advice.
I had expressed some worries I had about how this could all go down, and she basically said to me
"everything about how you are explaining this situation tells me that its 100% a secure and healthy pairing.
It seems odd and alien to you because youve only ever had harmful, toxic love-bombing to start a relationship, so this feels unfamiliar to you. Take your time, enjoy it and see if it turns into something real"

Im pretty floored, and excited.

Furthermore, the distance between EX and I has never been more defined. I have not looked, snooped, and I do not care to.
I am not jealous of NewGuy, if anything i pity what I think his future may hold.
The only regret I have at this point is losing my dogs, which sucks, but in the grand scheme of things is not a major deal.

My therapist has warned me to be aware though, she strongly feels that If the combined events of Ex's Honeymoon phase ending and me possibly being in a new happy healthy relationship, it could mean drama from EX, or attempts at it.
She told me to stay chill, in complete NC if she tries anything like that down the line.

I feel like myself for the first time in years.

My brother, I am so incredibly happy and excited for you!  When one door closes, another one always opens.  You just had to get your pinky toe out of that door behind you and turn around to face the future.

I am elated for your progress...please do not be a stranger!  We all want to hear about this whirlwind new love and see how you grow in the coming months!

i dont know anything other than what you have just posted about her. i assume that shes lovely.

as a part of your support system, i see a lot of flashing red lights, and not in her.

there is no rule, or at least not one that can possibly apply to everyone in every situation, that says "thou shalt not seek a new relationship before x number of days after the last".

there is healing to be found in surrounding ourselves with loved ones. with receiving the validation that comes from seeing ourselves through their eyes. there is healing in "returning to normal" and getting back into routine, and for many, that involves dating. getting back to that normal may be a part of healing, or it may be outright regressing to what is comfortable. that fine line can be flexible, depending on the person, and how they are trying to heal.

it shouldnt be lost on you or anyone that no one looked at it as the healthiest idea when your ex did it, whether it was or not.

9 (9) days ago, you were posting about it, how it rocked your world, and how you were doing your best to just forget about it. it can seem like a very convenient thing when a new relationship looms; much easier to forget about it. reigniting an old flame can be especially fun.

i dont think im delivering a newsflash when i suggest that this seems like a very convenient way to find yet another way to avoid feeling the grief of the end of your relationship.

i dont point this out to suggest you cut off, or do anything in particular with the new girl. i suggest that if you want it to work, you let yourself grieve your previous relationship. when your world is rocked, and your self esteem is in tatters, you are at your best for getting into a tempting relationship that will make the pain go away. but it wont. it will compound it.

if things flickered out with the new girl tomorrow, youd be right back where you were, in despair, but even greater. on some level, you know that, which just raises the stakes of maintaining the connection with her.

court this girl, or flirt with her, or have a fling with her, or bring her home to your parents and marry her, or never speak to her again, but in the process, be frank with yourself in your recovery, and in your grief. you have, and are jumping over the work of healing from a broken relationship. you risk bringing that baggage into it, and compounding your pain. it does not have to be that way. if you grieve and let your ex go, you will find it easier to connect with this new girl, or, if not her, future ones.

That reminds me of a story in my recovery.  My ex and I broke up in early August, and we had a cruise booked for November.  I remember thinking in those few months in between that if we were able to reconcile, that cruise could be like a new honeymoon.  But it didn't happen.

So as the months flipped by, September ,October, and finally November, I came to the realization that I'd be going on the cruise alone or taking someone else.  Ended up going with one of my best friends from childhood and at first, I was dreading it.  All I could think of was my wife and how much I'd miss her.  But once I headed south and started getting into those 'cruise vibes', I was able to focus on the present instead of the past.

The cruise itself was amazing- I had the best time and made lots of new friends in the process.  But one person, N, really made the cruise special.

N was a married mom who's husband repeatedly cheated on her during COVID.  They were living together for financial reasons only and planned on divorcing as soon as they could afford it.  The love was gone.  And N started flirting with me on day 2, which I appreciated but also made me weary because of my faith.  I was a separated Christian and N was a married Christian, so it was clear in my heart that nothing could happen.  Temptation was off the charts though and I was so attracted to her, just a beautiful woman with a beautiful heart.

On day 5, I was heading to my cabin to change for dinner and saw N sitting alone, looking pretty sad.  So I sat down and we talked, and I shared my story about my life and what was happening in my marriage.  I explained that mental illness was at the center of it all and how my faith was getting me through it.  N cried while I told my story, and then told me about her journey as well and how she grew up in the church.  I told her to pray for her husband and give the marriage a real chance, and we continued chatting for hours about life and each other.

Although we never did anything past a few hugs, N and I bonded on that cruise in a way that I wouldn't have believed was possible.  She made me love myself once again and see how much value I provided, not in the material things in life but what's actually important.  I am a good guy with a great heart and I deserve to be loved the way I love, which is completely and without judgement.

Folks, I love N...beautiful, amazing woman with a heart of gold.  But it clearly wasn't meant to be past friendship.  And the best news is that her marriage did a complete turnaround, they now go to church together and their love is restored.  Great feelgood story and I am so happy for them.

I brought this up though because of that afternoon that N and I talked for hours, I opened my heart in ways that I haven't been able to perhaps my entire adult life.  N did the same and we were completely open, completely vulnerable to each other, and I saw firsthand the way that we're called to love one another.  And don't get me wrong here, I'm not comparing my ex to N, but I was so clearly reminded how we're supposed to love and be loved, how we're supposed to be open and honest and vulnerable in a relationship.

In the days to follow, I started thinking about my marriage and how many times I had felt so completely alone because I couldn't have a real conversation with my wife.  I don't blame her because she was mentally ill, but at the same time I realized that I deserved so much more than I was giving myself credit for.  My wife left without a word, and had be unnecessarily cruel for months as she pursued another relationship.  Why was I carrying all that pain instead of just embracing life to its fullest?

Of course, N and I weren't meant to be, although we still occasionally chat as friends on Facebook.  Those few days with N healed me though in a way that I couldn't allow myself to heal because I couldn't see through the fog.  That cruise completely changed my outlook on the world because it gave me hope.

I hope that helps someone realize how you deserve to be loved, because there's a N out there (who's hopefully single!) just waiting for you.

Still lots of what feels like "Incoming External Energies"
I had similar feelings in April / May during the last "longer" stretch of NC.
Feels like pressure building.

This is the longest I have ever gone without finding some pretext to reach out.
The day I no longer have "external energy" reminding me of things id rather not think about, and want thinking about prior to the "energy" showing up, will be a great day.

Things with the lady Ive been talking to are going super well. Slow, comfortable, and healthy.
Couldn't be more opposite from the love-bomb intro's I have become so used to.

I've gone from looking for  hopeful signs that she may reach out, to honestly kind of fearing that she will. The feeling of disgust has persisted.
I don't want her to, but she (to use her own words) seems keen to "Disturb my peace" if she doesnt hear a peep for 3-6 months.

I just want to be totally done, and move on happily with my new interest and/or whatever the universe sends my way.
JUST NOT HER.

OKrunch,

I agree with Once Removed and will also wave the  red-flag or at least a yellow-flag.

9 days, or whatever period you define is way too short to get into another relationship.  It will be fun, it will be exciting, and it will take away the pain (at least initially).  For me, that was the case...

I did the something similar 24 years ago.  I left a uBPD/uNPDexgf for cheating on me not once but twice only to land in the lap (literally and figuratively) with a uBPD/uOCPD wife.  While this relationship is comparatively more healthy than the exgf (who eventually made front page news for her mental health issues on the largest newspaper in the state a year and some months after I was discarded by her and I dumped her), my relationship is still extremely dysfunctional by any standard.

It is getting better, as I am holding up a mirror to her bad behaviors, and she is changing, even though she does not like it when I reflect back a 'monster' (her words) - I will write more about this in other threads.

I previously interacted with you 3/4 of a year ago, and I have followed your posts very closely as your feelings remind me a lot of my own and there were quite a few parallels between the women we are/were seeing.

Getting back to you...  Take it slowly, don't force it, follow your therapist's advice, from what you have spoken of, she is pretty much spot on in most things.  If you were completely honest with your therapist, when she said "green lights" - go ahead and go after your friend from high school.  At worst it will be a very pleasant distraction that further's the distance between you and your ex.

I do urge you to keep your eyes open for any red or yellow flags.  Since you are moving away from a very toxic and dysfunctional relationship, your mind may still be a bit FOGgy (dual meaning), and your attachment style may be 'secure' as your T tells you, I also test as 'secure' but I have a lot of overtones of being anxious too (shades of grey, it is not a black or white thing).  So, if you do see any red or yellow flags, be sure to share them with your T (don't share them with your new interest without talking to your T first).

3/4 of year ago just as your last relationship imploded, I do recall that you were triggered as well in by what you said to her - I could see both sides, as an independent 3rd person, while you were blind to see hers with your own raw emotions. 

I too have a tendency to open my mouth and blurt out my feelings (sometimes really hurtful) before I engage my brain - please take this as constructive criticism, I noticed that you also do this.  If you have an urge to do this, bite your tongue, give yourself some time to reflect on why you feel that way, talk it over with your T or a close friend, or here, before saying or doing something you might regret later on.

I know my wife is working on cleaning up her side of the street, I am doing the same on my side of the street by doing exactly what I described in the paragraph above.  At that time you spoke of that your ex was also seeing a therapist and cleaning up her side of the street.

I have learned from your mistakes, and I am sharing mine so that you might be able to learn from mine.

I am not suggesting that you look back at your ex - just the opposite, don't look back.  However, you have a new woman coming into your life.  A fresh and clean relationship with no significant emotional baggage.  Reflect back on the previous relationship (or relationships) to see what mistakes you made, learn from them, and don't repeat them in the new relationship.

I wish you the best of luck.  Be mindful of your actions, go into your new relationship with your eyes wide open.  Take it slow.  Don't rush.  Don't force it.  Let it take its natural path.  Do segregate any negative feelings that might arise and examine them with your T before sharing them with your new interest.  Definitely do not be impulsive with your negative emotions.

Most importantly, enjoy the ride wherever it may take you.

Take care with self-care, don't forget to take care of yourself, and your son too.

SD

Something that helped me with this was a thought experiment suggested by a friend. From a logical point of view, there are two possibilities: she reaches out, or she doesn`t. If she doesn`t reach out, you`ve got it covered; you live your life, work towards your goals, keep healing. If she does reach out, it may be helpful to have a plan in place. It doesn`t have to be detailed, think more like how you`d know what to do if the fire alarm went off. You could post here, contact your T, whatever works for you. It helps to think about it because it avoids reacting in the moment, rather helps to outline a way of responding that`s in alignment with your values.

This sort of plan personally helped me decrease a lot of anxiety and overthinking about the situation.

Not much to updated.
"twisties" are fading, almost gone most days.

Passed my longest previous record of NC a few weeks ago, keeping it up good.
No social media peeping, and I couldnt be bother to care to look.

Each day away from the trauma bond and Hot/Cold confusion brings more clarity.
More obvious signs of how toxic the whole situation was from the start, even before the first breakup.

Occasionally sad for the "Death of Dr. Jekyll", but it was not I who plunged the knife home.

Things with new love interest are still going well, and most notably. SLOW.
Which is odd, because I am so used to Love Bombing to start a relationship, so this has been an adjustment.

Thank you for the update, keep up the good work.


I've been in 3 serious relationships.

My first relationship was slow (developed over a period of a year when I was 19 yo before we were 'intimate'), she was not BPD and we stayed together for a decade.  The next one was fast and definitely was classic NPD/BPD, the warning signs were there out of the gate she seduced me and I was in her bed the day we met.  The 3rd, and current one, who is now my wife, was also that way too, in her bed a little slower, but within the week we were interested in each other, even though I had met her when I was still seeing #2.

I have limited experience, 2 out of the 3 women were/are BPD combos, so taking your time can seem like it is taking 'forever'.  Chat with your therapist on what is a healthy pace for you.

Take care with self-care.

Heres an update on the Other Woman ive been talking to.

More recently, we had planned to hang out last weekend, and she backed out of that plan saying she was sick and had a massive migraine.

Then last night, she sent me a long message talking about how her whole situation is very screwed up right now and that she needs to take a step back and figure her stuff out. I explained to her that I understood the complication of the situation, it was more to me than just a fling and that it was something I was willing to wait for. I think she expected me to get angry and bail on the whole situation, because she seemed very pleasantly surprised by my response. When on telling me how no one she's ever been with or dated has ever been understanding of mental health issues, her medical issues etc.

So as it stands right now we are "waiting to hang out again" But our conversations are still very romantic, talking about how we want to be together and we just need to do things the right way and so on and so forth.

Modern relationships in the mid 30s are pretty tough, I totally understand a situation where the relationship is dead but finances and housing dictates having to wait for the right opportunity to separate.

She has been very sincere and open with me and I genuinely believe that it's just a matter of waiting for the right conditions, but I don't want to get burned again.

Hey buddy.  So this other woman is still living with a current/former partner?  Are they married?

Combined with you mentioning her mental health problems, that's a lot of  red-flag red-flag red-flag at once.  Please be careful and take this slowly since the last thing anyone wants to see is you getting your heart broken again.

Legally speaking, Yes.

I am treading VERY carefully. trust me buddy, If I didn't think this girl was worth the wait, I would walk.

Here are a few bullet points.

1. I've spoken to my therapist ad nauseum about this situation, and other then a few cautionary pieces of advice, she has told me that despite the complicated appearance, she thinks its a good situation to at least wait and see what happens. I have sent my therapist several conversation screenshots just to go over everything in full detail with her.
I asked her to see if she even saw any flags I didn't and she said she did not.
My therapist is pretty blunt and at this point also protective. So if things were fishy she would be the first to say so.

2. They have "been split" for some time, despite still being married and also still roomates. They have seperate bedrooms, and he is aware she is done.
I do believe that He doesn't want this course of action, but thats not my end of things to worry aout.

3. I spoke to my therapist at length about her mental health stuff.
Firstly, i firmly believe that nobody in my whole generation is 100% mentally healthy.
We all have baggage and we all have to learn how to carry it. Which is what I have spent so much time in therapy doing.
She deals with more depression and hormonal issues, not the veiled monster that is BPD.
If anything, I feel far more prepared to be a supportive partner than ever before BECAUSE of all I have learned about myself and relationships in the past few years.

LASTLY, and let me say this real loud for everyone in the back.
I AM FULLY PREPARED TO WALK AWAY THE INSTANT ANY OF THIS FEELS THE LEAST BIT DISHONEST, CHAOTIC, FISHY OR LIKE A REBOUND.

I learned a harsh harsh lesson over the last year about how it feels to be strung along, lied to, hot/cold, etc.
I sense none of that from this woman, and When our conversations started turning romantic, I immediately began looking for signs of smiliar behavior.
I sense none of the same indicators.

Just keep focusing on your own improvements since it definitely shows- it's clear that you're mentally stronger than you were a few months ago.  And I don't think anyone here is saying 'don't give this woman a chance', we just hope that you'll proceed cautiously and remember the rollercoaster that you've been on over the past year.

It does feel like you have the right mindset- give this time, take it slow, and be prepared to run if necessary.  Just know that she's on her own journey as well and dealing with a touchy situation.  I've heard of several couples that split up but stayed in the same home because of COVID and finances, and that has to be so mentally draining.  There is always a chance there that their marriage works out, especially if there's kids involved.

As long as you're walking into this with eyes wide open and responding appropriately, then I definitely wish you luck and I hope everything works out for the best.  Again, I'm very glad you finally cut ties with the ex and broke that trauma bond!

Well said ....  Congrats on the progress - keep your eyes open - congrats on the progress.

But you're not.

You sought out an emotionally and physically unavailable woman to skip over grieving your ex, even though you clearly have unfinished business (you're still counting the days until you hear from your ex).

You are, in your own words, in the same place that your last relationship was in. "Waiting to hang out" with someone who is entirely unprepared to commit.

You're watching for the warning signs of "love bombing" while ignoring the very obvious signs of a dead end rebound relationship. That is what bringing baggage into the next relationship really means.

Okrunch, I don't say this with any judgment. The two relationships I got into after the one that led me here were questionable, at best. And I knew it. Truth be told, I think i needed to go a little further down that road before I could really see it for what it was, and better understand what I myself was trying to do, in order to learn to make better, harder, but healthier decisions.

It's a good goal to be more mature than we were in our previous relationship, and in the breakup. Sometimes it takes a little bit more experience to do that.

I say it to help. You are your own biggest bser. In your own words, you were fully prepared to walk away from your ex. You were a rock. Self contained and in control. A beacon of stability.

You are not only bsing yourself, but you don't seem to have a clear idea of what you are doing. That's understandable to a degree; you've been through a lot. But you're not approaching this as the wounded, vulnerable guy that you are, you're approaching it as a guy who can't handle ithe wound, and you're kicking your own ass, and you're going to find yourself in compounded emotional pain. What are you doing, man? Do you know?

I think we are all rooting for you, and just want to see you stop creating a bigger hole for yourself. This is a famously treacherous path.

Everybody else seems to think that I'm on a decent path here, I really can't help but notice that you're responses on the forum here are usually negative and judgmental in tone.

Your responses often come off as antagonistic.

Can you say more about that?

Rev

"I don't say it with any judgment"
"I say this to help"

These opening statements have the same energy as
"I don't mean to be offensive but...."
" I'm being honest, I swear"

The rest of you have been very kind and helpful. But I think I've gotten all I needed to out of this, thank you all.

Crunch, I hear that you are frustrated.

And in the face of what people who have way more experience than I do even, I wonder what you might expect from them when they and others, like myself, see the choices you seem to be making as potentially harmful to you and around you.

Put another way, if you were talking to you, how would you appreciate hearing honesty without hearing judgement?  If you could frame the answer to that question of - "please say __________" rather than "don't say ________".

Thoughts?

Rev

Hey buddy.  Please don't give up, not yet anyway.  Let me tell you a quick story.

A few months after my separation, I ran into an old friend that I used to work with.  She was in a similar situation; her marriage was over but she was still living with her husband.  They had a little girl together.  And things were really bad, very hostile with constant screaming.  She sort of came onto me, not overly flirty but gave obvious signs that she was available and needed somewhere to stay.  Very, very good looking woman who was vulnerable and just wanted to be loved.

And I was still reeling, still trying to figure out my place in the world if it wasn't in marriage.  Every pore in my body said, "Go for it, what's the harm? Why not have a little fun and feel good for a change?" But deep down, I knew it was not the right path for me since something felt very, very off.

It is so common to want to jump right back in a relationship, but I'm glad I didn't.  She was absolutely the wrong woman for all the wrong reasons, yet I so desperately wanted to "save her" from her situation in life.  There was so much I couldn't see though, and I am so thankful that I didn't open that door.

I'm not saying that your situation is the same, and I'm sure that she's a great gal.  Nobody here is saying any different.  What others are trying to point out is that you might not be giving yourself enough time to heal from the previous relationship.  And if that's true, then this next one could end up being even more painful for you if it doesn't work out.

We're worried about you buddy and just don't want to see you get hurt.  Please know that everyone is 100% on your side here and wanting the absolute best for you.

Crunch, I hope you don't go away. We've all been there, we have. There can be a desire to push way people who want to support you when they say things you don't want to hear. It's not unusual. What we 'need' is not necessarily what we want to hear. I know that for myself.

Nobody here is against you, we are for you. That might feel strange having been in the relationships that we've ALL been in. Hard to trust that. I know.

I have a friend who's been through 3 different marriages, pays out child support to 3 different women. Is involved in various custody court battles pretty much all the time. His most recent two wives were, in order, drug and alcohol abuser and diagnosed violent borderline. This third wife was physically assaultive and threw dishes at the dinner table with their 3 year old and bit his arm to the muscle, while also trying to break his hand by bashing it with her phone...among other things.

He is currently still married to the 3rd, but separated. They are working through the paper work, but haven't had a court date yet.

5 months ago he had quadruple bypass surgery, and I sat with him at 6am in the morning before the surgery, and for 9 hours in the cardiac ICU after. And for many hours in the following days.

During this time, he thought about his life, wondered at how he had gotten into this mess. Realized that he had issues seeking out women for comfort and needing their love. He understood, through his work with a therapist, that he had very serious issues from growing up in household where his mother was a drug addict and never emotionally there, very often passed out in bed. His father was never there, working and emotionally disengaged. After this near death experience he told me he was going to get healthy, stop chasing women, and regretted putting his children through all this trauma and would put his focus on them rather than women.

3 months ago he went on the dating apps, was staying up way to late messaging women, was over tired at work, and driving an hour each way to go on dates up to 5 times a week. He had his daughter stay at the nanny's house so he could get a hotel room in the city while on his dates. Within 2 weeks he had met someone he liked and within 8 days there were on a vacation together, with his 4-year old and her 4-year old. He stays at her house now every weekend, with his kid. She and her child come to stay with him when he's not at her house for the weekend.

I have reminded him about what he told me after the surgery and I've pointed out that bringing children into a new relationship so quickly is not good for them. He just doesn't want to hear any of this. They are now fighting, and he wants to have me for a sounding board for this new relationship. He wants me to meet her. I told him I do not want to meet her.

This is a good friend, and he doesn't want to hear anything potentially 'bad' about what's happening. I care about him, and I care especially about his children.

Don't run, allow your friends and supporters to help.

I know it's hard to hear. It was for me, too.

A lot of things are hard to hear, and hard to face , in recovery. If you want the keys to that emotional jail cell, it is worth it.

Calling you your own biggest bser was harsh. I didn't say it with any malice; i said it to break through. When we are stuck in recovery, repeating the same choices, we are all our own biggest bsers.

I also want you to know, when i say "no judgment", I'm not making a moral judgment about your relationship. The circumstances of it are something we have seen thousands of examples of on this board. It is what brought many here, or happened after that.

It doesn't have a good ending.

If youre looking for red flags, "the relationship is dead but finances and housing dictates having to wait for the right opportunity to separate." is probably not why they aren't separated; this is almost always the given reason. I'm not suggesting she's lying to you. I am suggesting that marriages in that position have a way of staying in them.



This suggests that she was trying to put the brakes on the relationship, and was caught off guard when you told her you would wait for her.


I think that you are very likely to find yourself increasingly, and permanently in that position if you pursue this.


You have said all of these things before, word for word, many times. That is your indicator. It isn't about them.

You're chasing emotionally and physically unavailable woman, in nearly identical ways, and its resulting in really heartbreaking outcomes for you.

The lesson from our relationships is learning to make sometimes harder, but healthier choices.

That may be hard to do right now, or it may be hard to hear. If so, id ask you to set it aside for now, and consider it at a better time.

To me this is a red-flag red flag.  If her husband doesn't want this, and he starts to court her (especially if he aware of your romantic overtures towards his wife), her husband, may again try to work through whatever issue she had with him -- what is preventing her from going back to him since they live under the same roof, albeit in different bedrooms?  It sounds like she may be getting cold feet over this whole thing, a lot of second thoughts, of hurting her husband who lives under the same roof (different bedrooms), something that you have done with your exgf - she is just in a different stage.

The 2nd red-flag is the one Pook mentioned. 

Unfortunately, even though I don't want to be, I am in agreement with Once Removed with his assessment of the situation.  I would urge you to bring up his concerns, and my statement to your own therapist, and get her take on it, since she is the licensed therapist.  From what you have described of your interactions with your own therapist, she seems to be spot on most of the time.

Your potential romantic interest has 'tapped the brakes' - you need to respect this, even though it is difficult.  Perhaps wait a little while longer, a week, perhaps two.  Use your therapist as a sounding board (I do) from the feedback you have gotten here.  Make a choice, reflect on it for a few days to a week, and then go with that choice on what you want to do.

Ive ready all of your replies. thank you. I am just taking some time to digest and settle into new rythms,
Ill check in soon

Hey buddy, I hope you're hanging in there and doing well.  Keep us updated and let us know if there's anything we can do to help.  We're all Team-OKrunch here!

Let me firmly preface this by saying, I have not reached out and have had social media blocked since October 2nd.

Yesterday I got a text from a random number,
And it was allegedly Exs new boyfriend.
Told me to keep my distance and specifically proclaimed
"Steer clear of my girls, my house, my dogs"
And threatened to get a restraining order if I didn't.
I replied very briefly simply saying "I haven't, and have no intention on doing so, ever. I'm blocking this number, if I hear from you again I'll reach out to proper authorities"

Again, I have not reached out in some time, and over a month ago I swore off ever doing so again, and I meant it.

I say allegedly at the beginning there because the list of things I put in quotations are verbatim things I've told her I fear losing, in the same words and everything.
So either she messaged me posing as him, or specifically coached him in writing the message.
Both of which are very messed up.

Apparently the need for triangulation has begun, and I didn't do a damn thing here.

I'm floored right now.

Way up this thread someone posts “the clutches”.
  Obviously a boxing term.
   Very very accurate.
    No contact is good.
     

Is it possible that he saw messages between the two of you, and got jealous? The two of you were in contact relatively recently, and that would have taken place around the time they were meeting, right? Maybe he was going through her phone and saw messages?

Either way, it sounds like he's trying to be a tough guy; good move to block, no sense in giving him the time of day.

Definitely possible, but that would assume she hadn't deleted threads a month and a half ago, that contact on Oct 2nd is when she told me she was with someone. So I doubt it.
My guess, and I am not wasting time trying to figure this out because its profitless, is that this is part of her process to establish control in that relationship. By seeming like a victim and making mr new guy feel needed. I had similar experiences, she talked about her ex a lot throughout our entire relationship, but he is her daughters dad so it was a common thing.
However it really feels like the establishment of jealousy-making and triangulation, which I know she does oh so well.

Every phone number, social media and email are blocked.
I am so far past dealing with any of this BS.

And yet she continues to message my sister in law.

Like, if you are happy in a new relationship, leave me and my family alone.

What's the point in trying to keep her tendrils in my world?

Piss off.

OKrunch,

Ask your SIL not to share that information with you if your SIL wants to maintain a relationship with her as it is triggering for you. 

If your SIL does not want to maintain a relationship with her, you might want to share with your SIL that you have blocked her everywhere, and your SIL might want to do the same.

Take care with self-care.

SD

Still a lot of intrusive BS rolling around my head.
More about general BPD behaviors than anything.
The part of my mind that "Had to understand a thing" is becoming quite annoying.
Here are some of the things that have been stuck in my head.

Is the fact that i yet again set a boundary going to cause any backlash, god forbid they arent the ones setting the rules.

Will having told her "I don't care about any of those things, do not contact me again or I will take necessary steps" inflame that resistance to boundaries and control, and cause issues down the road?

Does her use of triangulation already with the new fella mean that I am not yet removed from her crosshairs? Am I still the "Favorite Person, Painted Black"?

How prevalent is jealousy, even after several discards? I legit worry about being able to be in a new relationship undisturbed.

She seems to be following her seasonal pattern - Fall "Dumped" me again (even though we werent dating) and shacked up with a new dude to pay the winter bills.
How firmly do you feel BPD's in general adhere to subconscious patterns like this?
Not that i should care, but I fully expect this situation to fall apart around next fall like every other one has.



I think at the end of the day, I am still searching for evidence that I meant something to her. Even though i know how fake that is to begin with with her, its one of those lingering ego hurdles.

If you're no contact, then it can't have any backlash.


I'm not sure since the boyfriend also told you that.  It sounds like she's just stirring the pot.  This is not BK, she doesn't get to have it her way 100% of the time.



You're not the currently the favorite person and you'll always be somewhat in the crosshairs (when her relationships fail).  The only way to escape the pattern is to stop playing the game.


Who cares, that's her problem...not yours.


Quick story.  My BPD daughter had a close relative take their own life in mid-November over a decade ago.  My mom's birthday (her all-time favorite person) is late October; she passed almost 5 years ago.  And between these two dates, my kid is always a wreck with super high emotion.  She'll always be that way because she grieves these two life-changing events every year.

There's usually a deeper pattern that's unseen by most of us that serves as a catalyst, that knocks them off their normal baseline.  For my ex wife and my kid, it brings feelings of guilt, shame, dread, and hurt like these events just happened yesterday.

For example, that's how my wife was able to say, "You don't care about me- you go out after work to shoot pool and you don't even call me."  That happened 23 years ago over a 3-month period, maybe once or twice a week.  But somehow it's still fresh and it still hurts her, even though we've had a conversation about it hundreds of times.  And when I'd bring up the opposite, when I was home alone and she was out with friends and family without a phone call...well, that was different and I shouldn't be upset about that.

It's disordered thinking brother, and the only way to get rid of it is to actually let it go.  That goes for you and for her.  Maybe you never learn her "why", what sets her off in the Fall, but you have to accept that it's disordered thinking and it's like venom.  That is not your problem anymore and you have to stop focusing your energy towards it.

I hope that helps a little bit.

HAHAHA. Ok this was worth the post alone. Well needed chuckle, thank you.

*mod* Locked and Split due to post limit. New Thread here...https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=357216.0