BPDFamily.com

Hi all. I posted here quite a bit from July-December of 2021. As I said in an answer post today, I quickly realized after reading here for a while that this problem never actually gets better, at least not in a way I can accept. What I think this board could use is a support group for those of us who've  made the decision to stop helping our adult children/go no contact and the like. What we need more than anything is a welcoming place where people understand this decision and don't judge us for making it and can commiserate with us about the intense guilt this decision causes and the constant doubts it brings with it since it's so antithetical to everything we've ever done/felt in relation to raising and loving our children. I hear so much anguish in so many posts from parents who KNOW there's nothing more they can do and who just want to be let off the hook. We are a minority here, but, as there are several different boards here for the phases of romantic relationships, so should there be separate sections for the phase parents are in with their BPD children. Any interest?

I am interested.  We are all at different stages in this experience.  If you had told me to just walk away 10 years ago (my daughter is 33 now). The idea would seem unthinkable.  As time goes on people tend to wear out and even become ill.  I think a safe space to support each other without being nudged in a direction we’re no longer comfortable with would be really helpful.

Acheymom, yay! It helps me just to hear you say that  :) And yes, exactly. Everyone is at different parts of this journey. Have you ever looked at the romantic section of this site? They have their area broken down into 3 sections, one for each stage of the process:

Bettering or Reversing a Breakup
Conflicted About Continuing
Detaching and Learning After a Failed Relationship

At the very least it would be nice to have a pinned thread but better even would be if ours could have two sections that more explicitly reflect the stages at which we are, and of course folks are free to go back and forth anyway as they do on the romantic section.

And just FYI (you can click on my posting name to see my old posts for more detail), my son is 27, able-bodied, has a BA degree and almost finished his MA before he dropped out. I haven't given him any money since July 2021. I found and paid for the last and final therapist who "fired" him as a patient in July 2022, and I decided then that that will be the last thing I pay for. He lives in his dad's house, smokes weed daily, hasn't worked for 2 years, and is now on Medicaid. I've seen him once in the past 2 years for lunch with the woman he is using for support (can't bring myself to call her his gf). Every month or so he'll call, I'm sure because he still thinks that if he sounds pathetic enough I'll bankroll his existence, and every month or so I'll call him because I feel guilty but it always ends with him saying he'll kill himself. I'm at a point where I just can't kick the guilt. Maybe I never will. But I'm firm on no more money/help.

I'm interested, Leaf.
Like you, I check back periodically for support.
It's now 2 years since I've seen my bpd daughter, age 36. She is blocked on our cell phones. Funding stopped as well. My CLh and I have been sucked in a few times, responding to benign sounding emails (our birthdays, eg). Once we reply with a "thank you", the barrage of messages begins. We've stopped responding and the messages stopped.
We've learned, through others that she is alive, appears well employed, and not on the street as a prostitute, as was  threatened countless times.
At times, I feel like my heart has been cut out, but I carry on with my own life.
 
 

Hi Tulipps! Great to see you here, although I guess bad that we both still feel the need to come sometimes, but it helps so much to know you’re here. I’m able to find humor in my situation more and more, which sometimes helps. There have even been busy months at a time when I’ve not thought about it much, then he makes contact and I go into a tailspin for days. I have more to say but have to run right now. Please expound if you want/have time and I’ll gobble it up when I’m back later tonight.

Hi I'm living in Western Australia but cannot find any place for support except my Psychotherapist who has been asking me to go no contact with me mum for 20 years. Yes, you heard me, 20 years.
However last week I got it.
I'm very shaken up and feeling insecure. I live in public housing so it's impossible for me to move as she lives down the street from me. My 29 yr old son doesn't speak to me neither does my oldest brother because of her. She is diagnosed bpd,. Narcissism, elements of psychopath.

I'm learning to be gentle. I am pretty much unable to excersise..

I feel so beaten up.

Hi astarry, that sounds like a very awful situation. I think you might get better responses on the section of this site that's meant for people with parents who have BPD. This section is for people with children who have BPD. That said, my mom has no BPD traits, but I'm sure it's hard when one's mom does. I have no issue with going no contact with anyone in my life who exhibits BPD behavior except my son. I don't have any tolerance for it whatsoever.

The thing that has helped me the most has been talking to my former therapist from 20 years ago, who is a top cognitive behavior/schema therapist in NYC specializing in personality disorders (he's also a clergyman). I had kind of forgotten about him in the intervening years until someone on this board mentioned schema therapy, and I contacted him and he was willing to work with me and my son over the past year and a half. He, like me, thinks Marsha Linehan's approach to BPD is wrong and that DBT is ineffective. He, like me, believes that what these BPD adults need more than anything are very firm limits, parents who don't fund them after HS or college if they go, and parents and otheers who put up with zero crap from them. It helped so much to know that someone who has been dealing with these adults and their parents for so long thought exactly the same way I do about it and was even stricter and harsher in his approach of what to do than I am. He said that it's not possible to make any progress with these adult offspring (intentional use of word) whatsoever if you as parents continue to participate in the stage play that is their lives. So his view is that first parents need to stop doing anything for their adult offspring, and then the adult offspring need to decide for themselves if they want to change. He's not saying that that usually happens, but he IS saying that nothing the parents do will help and that what they usually do DO is only making things worse, so at least this way the parents can get on with their lives and maybe if the parents get out of their offspring's lives the offspring will get on with theirs. And even if the offspring don't get better, or become homeless, or prostitutes, or drug addicts, or kill themselves, it's not the parents' responsibility.

This affirmation of what I had already concluded has helped me a lot. I still have bouts of guilt and overwhelming sadness/grief. I'll probably have that for the rest of my life. But as long as I don't talk to him, I can kind of pretend that maybe he's not feeling so bad and I just do my best to block out any thoughts of him and concentrate on my other two happy, healthy sons.

Someone had told me years ago that you can only be as happy as your least happy child. That tragic thought gripped me for years until I rejected it. Remaining enmeshed in my daughter's life made my own life unbearable. What I thought was helping was definitely not helping. Ever. That shocking revelation gave me my life back. Now, the periodic sadness I feel has nothing to do with guilt or shame, only loss. It's a grieving process.

Tulipps said: "Someone had told me years ago that you can only be as happy as your least happy child. That tragic thought gripped me for years until I rejected it. Remaining enmeshed in my daughter's life made my own life unbearable. What I thought was helping was definitely not helping. Ever. That shocking revelation gave me my life back. Now, the periodic sadness I feel has nothing to do with guilt or shame, only loss. It's a grieving process."

Hi again Tulipps. Yes, "a grieving process" sums it up. Maybe it's even a traditional Kubler-Ross 5 stages grieving process (ie Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance). I know when I came here I was very much in the mommy mode I've spent most of my mom years in with him which has always been "I'm smart. If I can just figure out what this is I can fix it." That bubble was immediately burst when I realized from reading years' worth of posts here that it's unfixable and can never get better than surface-level better (which is considered success for some people but not me). Then I left this board and worked with my old therapist and over the past year and a half confirmed my previous conclusions, which helped me with a lot of the guilt but not much of the grief. I still continue to be astonished that all this is still going on. I really thought he'd get sick of it and go back to being how he was before this started. But that's clearly not going to happen. I don't feel like I've achieved any definitive stance on the situation. I've never thought "I'll never speak to him again." I still waffle back and forth in my mind all the time, and when the sadness gets to me I sometimes call him. It's not always bad when I call him or he calls me, but it usually is. I know that when it's not bad that he's just trying really hard not to have conflict, but that conflict is only a hair's breadth away. But yeah, it's a process. I'm actually jealous of people whose children have gone no contact. For me, that would be much easier than my choosing to diminish contact to the extent I have.

I would like to join this thread. Hi again Leaf.  :)

I don't have anything to add today really. Please excuse me if I come across as blunt or cynical in future posts. I do tend to get 'over it" and too tired to write out my sorrow and grief. So please assume it is there to a diminishing degree when I write about the cynical side of my feelings.

Also, I only come on here rarely as I am focusing on being happy doing unimportant things and lighthearted things in my daily life. The things I have missed out on.

Bloody Narcissistic mother, abusing siblings & Borderline daughter took so up so much time, energy and would not allow for any joy. I have joy back.

Yeah I hear you. It doesn't come up that often, but when it does it's nice to have a place to go to vent or express sadness to those who understand.

I would like there to be other subforums too. One standout is that adult children with BPD are handled much differently than a < 18 year old BPD child.

I am still hopeful though. Look up Tristesse on these boards. Her adult daughter has been living independently for 5 years after DBT.

To address your points, I think everyone has their own version in their head of what they would consider to be a successful outcome to their situation with their BPD child, and that's a good topic for another thread. I started this thread for those of us who have already decided to give up hope and have chosen to go no/minimal contact with our adult children to support each other in that decision. I had suggested having a separate area for that stage of this process in the same way there are three separate areas for the process in the romantic relationship area of the site.

I just realized that I thought it might help for me to add to the explanation I gave above. When I first arrived at this site 2 years ago, I was 2 things; desperate with equal parts exasperated and pissed off. I was desperate to understand what was happening with my son and desperate to figure out how to fix it. And I was exasperated and pissed off with the way he was behaving. After 6 months of intensive research and reading here, I came to the conclusion that there really wasn't anything more I could do to help him and that he really needed to figure it out on his own. But then I felt guilty, so I embarked on one last attempt by employing a therapist to help guide us out of the situation. Within 6 months it became clear that that was never going to work either. So now one year after that, I'm relatively comfortable with the place I've landed, which is minimal contact and zero tolerance for anything that even smacks of abusive language/behavior. That doesn't mean that I don't sometimes get very very sad. I don't expect the grief to ever leave me and that's just what I've decided to accept. The decision doesn't make it hurt any less, but it does bring a lot of peace.

I agree.

Leaf56 - I definitely agree with the specific forum you are suggesting. I does help to know that there are others who have made the decision to end communication and the world did not collapse around them. And if/when my husband & I get there we will have a place to communicate with others in the same position.

Yes, we need a place free of judgment, free of people suggesting just one more thing we can try, free of people saying "but wait there's hope," etc. All of that just prolongs our agony. We've made a decision that should be respected as much as others' decisions to continue to try. I haven't really spent much time on the romantic section, but I don't think that there are members there suggesting hope to other members to try again once they've finally ended their toxic marriages on the "Detaching and Learning After a Failed Relationship" board. I imagine it's why the board administrators created the 3 separate boards within the romantic category.

My son's birthday is in a couple days. This type of thing always poses a dilemma. I'd like to call and say happy birthday, but it will probably end with him saying he wishes he was never born and stuff like that. For the past couple years I've given him a gift card sent via email. I guess I'll do the same this year. It makes me so sad.

Leaf – I’m right there with you. Intellectualizing it doesn’t take the pain away because this s--t hurts.

There is a family date of significance next month and I’ve been expecting something. Well, it came today. The baby voice email “Do you have my (childhood item) because I’d like it back”… followed by “I miss my family ☹” As soon as I saw the message, a wave of numbing anguish hit me. A reminder that my level of calm can be disrupted significantly by 2 short sentences.

If one was unfamiliar with the history, at face value the messages seem benign and sincere. Knowing the history, I see a gentle hook dangling for me to get pulled right back into the latest crisis.

It took about an hour for me to settle on a response of no response. 

Sending a virtual hug your way.

I’d like to be involved with such a group. We’ve been estranged from our oldest who has BPD and this estrangement was a decision we made. However, there have been several other estrangements over the years where we were cut off by her. This last time I couldn’t take her abuse anymore. In many ways my life is more peaceful since no contact but in other ways this estrangement situation has wreaked havoc on my life. I feel guilty some days and angry other days, I’m definitely depressed and also going through menopause which makes everything that much worse some days.

I last heard from our daughter a couple months ago and it was via email. She’s blocked on our phones and now blocked from every email address she knew about. We helped her get back on her feet financially after a divorce and a dui and somewhere in there she had a major splitting episode and became abusive, again. She owes another relative a large sum of money who she lied to another paying back so there are other family members she’s also estranged from. She no longer speaks with her siblings and she seems to be mad at them for reasons that don’t exist in reality.

Anyway, I’m rambling but speaking to others who can relate would be great.

Thank goodness for you right now Tulipps. Thank you! I got the “I miss my family, I just want a family” email a month or so ago gut punch too. I ended up talking to him for several hours going down numerous rabbit holes ending as always with ridiculous accusations and suicide threats wishing I’d never called.

Hi KitKat and welcome. Perimenopause is the worst, but it’s bliss when it’s over and it will definitely help, though it could take a while.

So I had the dreaded call with my son for his bday and it went really well. He was in a good mood, was making progress on a physical problem he's been dealing with (he got on medicaid and sought treatment for it on his own). But unlike other times, I no longer feel hope after calls that go well, just relief that it didn't turn into a big horrible thing.

I am so relieved to find this thread & be a part of it. All the relevant BPD posts are supportive but I rarely read of NC for 3+ yrs like me. I have found the people that know how this state of being is. For me, a wonderful counselor has truely helped me navigate through the early stages of this -  realization of adult daughter BPD & what is bpd, the suffering & I mean suffering through mental & emotional attacks, my eventual boundary setting, the understanding of a fatal toxic situation that I had to remove myself from, and the acceptance of all of it. It goes on w/a little less grief & sadness, and I know now I am not crazy. This has spilled over to enforce NC w/ horribly toxic sibling & 2 - 1/2 siblings that just don’t care about me or how bpd daughter treated me. Believe they heard bpd daughter condemn me but as my counselor said, you know her truth & how she acted & hurt you. They never asked me are you OK? I don’t have to be around & playact a semblance of “family” nor be a recipient of passive/aggressive behavior. I’m so encouraged to read all the important life skills we can grow.

Hi again Rottiemom, I'm so happy you found the thread and felt relief. It helps so much to know that there are others who have given their all and then have said "enough" to the abuse and manipulation. Because in the end, we count just as much as they do, and there's never a reason to allow another person to treat you badly--ever. It's amazing that anyone who supposedly knows and loves you would ever believe the lies these kids tell about you. Anyway, glad you're here.

Oh man I’m glad I’m here too. This is not a misery loves company but company that freakin understands this viciousness.  Plan to contribute more and have reread the posts & feel a little relaxed knowing others understand!

Leaf, has the schema therapist you mentioned written any books, or at least an article or two? I'd love to look him up if you don't mind sharing his name—thanks!

Hi guiltymom, nice to see you again. I’ll send you a private message with his name and a link.

Once again, as soon as I start thinking about what will have to change for me to consider having interaction with my bpdd, the poop hit the fan.

Yesterday I had 3 frantic voice messages and emails from my 95 year old mother. She apologized... didn't want to triangulate but was very worried by recent messages from her granddaughter.. talking about being engaged, then about quitting her job, being along, being fine... all over the map. I did my best to reassure. An hour later, I heard from my CLh that a few hours earlier, MY daughter had driven to HIS daughter's home and hurled 2 dozen eggs at the house and cars in the driveway. Thankfully the kids were at school, but husband was home and treated to screaming threats and accusations - blaming them for her financial woes and other crazy stuff. Police were not involved, but there were a lot of bystanders. Apparently it took a while for her to leave. 

Obviously I won't be alarming my mother with this news and no, I won't be interested in reconnecting any time soon.
 
 

Hey Tulipps, Geez. WTH? Eggs? Did they call the cops? I would have. That's absurd.

Leaf -
No police were called - this time, but they are considering a restraining order. She can be very aggressive but I'm not aware of her doing anything like this previously.
 
 

I would have called the cops. But that's just me. During the time my son was saying things about hurting people and declining to say whether I'd be safe in his presence, I considered getting a restraining order for me and the rest of my family that lives with me. I'm not sure if that's even possible or how it works though. I told him once that his words had alarmed me enough that I was considering doing that, and he started inexplicably saying that HE should get a restraining order, which made no sense since I was refusing to see him or even talk to him except through the therapist at the time. Anyway, I personally don't consider it much of a leap from throwing eggs to physical assault, so I hope your CLH's daughter and family stay safe.

I called my son on Monday. We had a pleasant enough conversation. He didn't say anything crazy about aliens or the Catholic Church, etc. He keeps saying he really wants to see me. He talks in a baby voice when he says these things. I just don't know and am so conflicted. But then the conversation ended with him asking about paying his student loans, so it's probably just that he holds out hope I'll go back to financing his existence.

Hi all: I greatly appreciate you all thinking about starting this support group for those of us who are estranged, looking at options and planning our future with little to minimal contact with our adult children just so we live a little healthier and at peace with our lives. It has been one long rough journey lasting more than 20 years for my husband and I with my adult daughter (46), udBPD who luckily is employed and managing herself but is overwhelmingly demanding and abusive towards us. I am really grateful for all your support and this thread for your nonjudgmental response to all the difficult questions. Thanks everyone

Awww, manifest, thanks so much for reaching out. Just that small gesture helps me and everyone else in the same boat so much. We all know that even just thinking about cutting ties can drive a parent to the point of madness and that when we're at the point of thinking about it it's because the alternative of staying involved is that much worse.

Some thoughts for today: Saying I love you and support you no matter what to your child is not always desirable. There are circumstances, where, for example, one's child is threatening to harm or kill family members and others, to rape people, to join a neo-Nazi movement and murder homeless people and minorities, etc., such a declaration would be counter-productive. To the folks on this thread, please don't feel guilty if you can't say or feel this. Everyone's situation is different.

Also, I know it can hurt to read claims that letting your child make mistakes and grow from them will lead to them being ready to get the help they need when it's been 40 years and your child is a drug-addicted prostitute. Again, everyone's journey through this is different. It can be debilitating to live with false hope.

I would like to be on this thread. 22 year old Daughter is Borderline and abusive. She has manipulated and stole so much money from us. We called the police last week for the first time to have her removed from our house. We financially  support her in college with apartment etc. She has more than enough and never is satisfied. I am in the process of cancelling all my credit cards as she somehow keeps getting access and spending. She is verbally abusive manipulative  and erratic. She threatens to become a prostitute all the time for money. It’s so distressing.  I have never posted before but I would love to have  a sounding board for this as I think for my own sanity we need to cut her off. I know I have enabled her for years.

Muffins! Love the name. My son is constantly threatening to “go into porn.” I’m like “go ahead!” I don’t care. If it meant that he was getting a paycheck, then fine! It’s so ridiculous. They are ridiculous! They’ve converted their threatening tantrums to adult things, that’s all. Instead of “I’ll hold my breath until you give me what I want” now it’s “I’ll become a drug addict unless you give me what I want”!

Thank you for your response! The situation with her is out of control and I am letting myself get sick from it. I appreciate your advice. Can you let me know a brief description of your situation to or point me to it.  How did  got to this point where you are so well adjusted? Not sure how these boards and messaging work so bear with me. I have a therapist. I sent my daughter 2 therapist names this morning. She is of course resistant and will probably not call them.
I am not totally to the point of 100% cut off and do not even know how to make that happen. She lives in an apartment we cosigned for and drives one of our cars. She has 2 dogs that I love but am going to have to just let that go and hope they survive it all.

Not sure how these boards and messaging work so bear with me.
Thank you

My heart goes out to everyone posting here. Muffins and Manifest - very sorry to hear what you're enduring. I can relate 100%... afraid to answer the phone, listen to messages. Unable to escape birage of texts. Endless threats of suicide or prostitution, demands for money.
It took me many years and plenty of counseling to extricate myself from the abuse and financial strain. Joint leases (condo and car), shared phone plan, internet... it was a nightmare. You can read my previous posts for more details. 
Although I have accepted the reality on an intellectual level, it is not easy. Keeping my focus on positive things is helpful.

Hi again muffins (still loving the name!),
Brief description of my situation: My son is 27, dropped out in final semester of his master's program, smokes weed daily and lives at his dad's rooming house rent-free. He hasn't worked in 2 years and before that was doing barista jobs here and there. I've seen him once in 2 years (my choice), and I stopped supporting him in any way financially 2 years ago. We talk on the phone occasionally, but only if he's completely respectful. Being mean to me and talk of suicide or other crazy stuff results in the immediate termination of the call. Recently we've had three phone conversations in a row that have been positive. He says how much he loves me and misses me and why can't I just forgive him to which I respond that it's not a matter of forgiveness but a matter of trust and consistency. I reminded him on the most recent call that it was only three months ago that he was directing anger at me in a phone call and threatening to kill himself so I'd had to hang up and block him again. I said that in order to have a relationship with me he has to have a significant stretch of time without one of these episodes. We've been through this exact thing before though, so I don't hold out hope anymore, but I DO give him a chance. Before I enacted the policies I now follow, I also was making myself completely sick. Now I'm much healthier. Nevertheless, the situation wears on me daily.
I don't know that I have any great advice to give anyone, but I do have support, and I can tell you that I won't judge you for whatever decisions or actions you take. Feel free to ask whatever you want, and welcome.

Thank you so much for sharing your story . My first dogs name was Muffin . I just typed a paragraph about last night and it disappeared… this is our first big stance against her. I am terrified of the escalation that will come. I took a prescribed medication from my dr last night for the first time. It helped reduce that terror so I am grateful. I am so grateful for you all already. This is going to be hard. Going to go out and enjoy the good day.

Hi there, I am wondering if I can get some advice. My daughter is a master at financial manipulation. She can steal money in very creative ways. In the past she has had access to our credit cards to put on aps etc that we approved (no more!) It seems you can not just change the numbers on the credit cards to stop this (we did this) . I may need to close all my accounts totally and start new ones. I have them locked and it is still doing this for Uber. I think she is selling rides for money.
We are really closing down our support here  of her but would like her to eat. Have you all had effective ways to give them the bare minimum without being scammed?
Headed to the bank to shut it all down which means we are shut down till we open new accounts.
She came home for one day this past weekend. I was in utter terror as I would not know how she would act. We had called the police on her the week before to leave the house. We had a decent conversation with my husband about the situation etc. 
She agreed to a plan but not one hour later there was a tirade on texts about getting money to uber etc. She said she crashed the car etc. When we spoke. No car crash. I know you all have been there but I am always so surprised how fast they can change.  I am in almost constant anxiety right now. Have started to block her for most of the day. I give her one contact a day then block her.  I will get there I hope...

Hi muffins,
That sucks that shutting down the card numbers hasn't worked, but if the only way to do it is to close the accounts and open new ones I'd do it too just for the peace of mind. I can't tell you what an immense relief it was when I no longer had a single financial or other institutional tie to my son. The last one was when he aged out of our health insurance last fall. I finally felt like I could start afresh with him. Up until that time, when I felt guilty about the food thing, I'd either buy him groceries and take them over to him or give him a gift card for something he could walk to like Dunkin (he never got a driver's license), but at this point I haven't given him anything at all or paid for anything in 2 years. What I said to him was that my relationship with him could no longer have any transactional aspects, ie if you do this I'll give you this. That had to go away entirely for me to even be able to think about the situation at all.

I also did the thing where he could have one contact per day/week for a while. But the rage texting was uncontrollable so I've had him blocked from texting for 2 years. I'm not even sure how that worked out, but he cannot text me, even if I unblock him for phone calls. Right now things have been ok so he can call me, but if/when there's another outburst, I'll block him again.

I'm also amazed by the swiftness of the transitions from normal to rage. I've stopped analyzing any of it though. That was another thing I learned. It doesn't matter why or what, all that matters are your boundaries, what you will accept and what you won't. I won't accept ANY nonsense. I'd like to say that that's why things are improving—that my steadfast resolve on this front for 2 years is what's causing the tide to turn. But I've had that hope before and I really have no idea if it's the case. Only time will tell. But one thing I know for sure. I will NEVER have a financial tie to him again and I will NEVER allow any nonsense, point blank. If that leads to him changing and us having a relationship again, then that's what it leads to. But it's no longer my goal even, it's just my line in the sand.

Aaaand we're back! Just when I was thinking to myself that I should plan an in-person meeting with him since things had been going so well with our phone calls for the past couple months, he just called and went all crazy again. It was a slow build over the course of a half hour then ended with him saying he'll kill himself. Oh well.

Leaf -
Sorry to hear how the conversation ended.  :hug:
 

Thanks, Tulipps, your support means a great deal to me.

Was just reading through the thread and was wondering how everyone is doing. Shout out to tulipps, acheymom, kitkat, manifest, flossy, rottiemom, stepmothering, muffins and anyone else who's chosen to go minimal/no contact with their adult child.

As for me, I'm feeling that internal pressure today to call my son. It builds up like this every couple of weeks. I come here instead to keep myself from calling. It's like drinking a Diet Coke instead of eating a bunch of carbs.

Hi everyone.  I'm happy and sad to find this thread.  Happy to find that other parents are in the similar situation of having no/minimal contact.  Sad because it is a very unfortunate choice for a parent to make. 
This choice, for me, came from a place of self-preservation.  I have battled with my daughter's disease for so long, that it was completely wearing me down and causing panic attacks for me as well as depression and exhaustion. 
I chose to get off the roller coaster in February/23.  The mixed emotions of guilt, hurt and relief are somewhat wearing as well, but I'm working on it with my therapist.
Is anyone else having success with personal therapy after going no contact with their child?
I wish you all a relaxing and comfortable Sunday.

Namaste

Hi Bonnie, thanks for posting. I did speak with a therapist over the course of a year or so, which I guess was about a year and a half ago now, who helped me make the decision. I've talked to that therapist twice this year when I've felt very bad about things, but mostly I just come here and read and that gives me the fuel to stay strong and not waver. It's very, very hard, much harder than continuing to help him, but I know it's best for both him and me. And I know that if anything is to ever change, which I realize it probably won't, this is the only way to ever get to that point because he would have to do it on his own for it to work.

This is a great thread. There is simply not enough support for parents...and the problem seems to be getting more prevalent from what I am hearing and reading.
I feel so different from other parents - at the worst moments of this journey - I just isolate and sink into a depression. There are not words that a parent who isn't familiar with these afflictions can understand. And then I end up just idealizing everyone else's relationships with their kids.

It says something that so much attention, in general, is given to romantic relationships, but not the parent/child relationships that are an outgrowth of them.
I am new - but I am here if anyone ever needs an ear.

Hi Clarity, thanks for posting on the thread. I created it because getting to the stage of no or minimal contact with a child by choice is one of the hardest things a human being will ever face mentally, and I felt there needed to be a separate place for it like there is on the romantic boards of this site. I mean, it's obviously way harder than going no contact with a romantic partner. It's not even in the same stratosphere. So we have our little thread.

I'm not sure whether there truly are more children behaving this way or if this issue is just getting more attention because we, the know-it-all generation of parents, is now the one experiencing it with our own children. (I mean let's face it—there never before was a generation of parents more armed with parenting know-how than ours. I should know. I was a parenting magazine and book editor for most of my career! I was out there blasting it out to millions of hungry readers who did not want to eff up their kids like their parents had done to them.) But in reality, when I look back anecdotally at the world around me when I was young, my sister did a lot of this behavior up into her 40s and then it seemed to dissipate. She herself says that she "got sick of herself." But she was always very high functioning professionally so while it's been unpleasant for my mother and others in her life, no one had to worry that she was homeless, or a drug addict, or a prostitute, or a murderer. Constant threats of suicide, but look! She's still alive! And further anecdotally, I remember when I was around 12 years old beginning to notice that almost every family I knew had a "black sheep"—a teenager who rebelled, did drugs, slept around, wasn't following the path the family planned at all, embarrassed the family, etc. Now that it's 40 years later, many of those rebellious teens are leading perfectly regular lives, several are alcoholics who I'm sure have had lifelong financial support from their families, and a few have committed suicide. So like I said, I'm not sure there's an increase. I think maybe it's just getting analyzed more by our generation of parenting expert and therapy-addicted moms. Is it possible that all this therapy stuff and parenting expertise is causing an uptick of this behavior though? Yes, it's possible. Yes, we could have taken a meh situation and made it worse by all the worrying, and fixing, and meddling, and "trying to find the answers," and trying to take away the pain. Yes, I think that might be exacerbating and lengthening what normally would just be teenage rebellion that runs its course. I do know that so far, since I adopted my approach, my son has changed for the better. I don't know if it's because of that, but I DO know that he is better and not worse, whether because of or in spite of my approach.

He called tonight. I talked to him for 3 hours. He exhibited zero anger, blame, threats, psychosis, etc. He said that he knew he shouldn't have called me for the last conversation we had that ended with him saying he'd kill himself because he was in weed withdrawal. He apologized for it. He's developing more awareness. He didn't ask for anything. I told him I hope we can continue having conversations because I'd like to get to the point where I can feel safe with him and go back to having a normal relationship. He agreed. He's agreed before. All I can say is we'll see.

Leaf - I'm happy to hear you were able to have a stable conversation. You've consistently demonstrated the ability to be realistic ("radical acceptance") while remaining hopeful. It’s not easy.
Our boundaries are still in place, and since hearing about the egging incident, things have been quiet. We’ve been happy and relaxed. Until today. This morning I got a text from a cousin saying that my daughter had been arrested and needed a lawyer. The cousin declined, and when she did, suffered a verbal assault.
A few hours later, CLh and I both received voicemails from an unknown number – my daughter. She spoke clearly, but the message was bizarre. In her words:  “there’s a conspiracy…  you are all criminals and have been complicit for years… my grandfather was complicit… I'm being watched in my apartment... someone is using AI to read my mind… I'm being coerced into marriage… “ We have no idea what she's talking about. The message ended with the usual accuse/shame/scare/demand for money needed for her lawyer's retainer. Apparently this is the only way I can show some compassion and make up for completely ruining every step of her life. 
I have no idea if anyone will give her money at this point, but I can’t/won’t. She’s obviously in a bad way and in a bad situation, without a safety net.
wtf. I feel simultaneously heartbroken, baffled, numb, sad and helpless, but thankful I can share in this safe place.   

"Take what you need and leave the rest" - Alanon
For those uncomfortable with my stance, all I can say is that you may have walked alongside me at times on this journey, but you haven't walked in my shoes.
What I'm feeling right now is an explosion.
Thanks for listening, and I hope this space remains judgment free.
Peace to all.

I lurk on this board often and have posted some in the past. Reading this thread is helping me at the moment. I have decided to "take a break" from my dxBPD daughter, age 26. I read through my old posts on this forum from TEN YEARS AGO and golly - a lot hasn't gotten much better with my daughter. Now in the mix is a boyfriend (father of her child) who probably has some type of diagnosis, too. So now the situation is more complicated from when she was 16 years old. Anyway, I am entering my 60's, married for the second time now going on seven years, and want to experience some peace, happiness and fun in my life. I am letting my daughter know that I love her, but her choices and actions hurt  - so we are "taking a break." I feel validated from this thread on my decision to do so. Thanks!

My husband and I are No Contact by his sBPD adult (30) daughter's choice, but it feels like we made the choice since she's twisted the story so bad on her Socials.  She posted "It's all my Dad's Fault!" or something to that effect there.  We didn't see it but heard about it from my husband's sister, who subsequently unfollowed her saying "I can't believe the things she says about people there!"

great idea for a subgroup

I am not the bio mother and didn't even raise my sBPD stepdaughter, but it still feels like a death of a dream I had to have a loving family with my husband.  Also went through all the stages of grief with our NC 3.5 years ago.

I wracked my brain trying to figure out if I caused it (since the ultimatum given was Dad must divorce me for there to be contact), didn't sleep well at all for months.  So much childhood trauma and all the emotions came up - shame was the biggest feeling and it truly felt like she saw into my soul and knew all the bad things I'd ever done to people in my life.
hugs to all on this thread, I am NOT judging anyone.  Too broken to do that.

b

Hello all. I’ve been reading and re-reading this thread, and I am so relieved that there is a place for those of us who have decided to go  no/minimal contact.
I joined in I think 2017, made a few posts and have not posted since, as things were going very well with my DD36. She is an Iraq veteran and was dx a long time ago with PTSD and has had a lot of treatment over the years. She is also Bipolar and has autism, not dx until her 30’s. One Dr said she has BPD traits but stopped short of diagnosing her with BPD and she is very resistant to any suggestion of that.

We have always been close, except for one rough time when her doc abruptly took her off a Bipolar med because he was worried about a serious side effect, but it caused her to go into mania and it was a nightmare while, and after she was in the hospital. (Sorry, I feel like I’m writing a book here).
So that was 2017 I think, and the first time I felt really alienated from her. Things went back to normal in our relationship. We talked every day, she graduated college and bought a house.
Then about 6 months ago she was dx with c-ptsd and is in some kind of trauma therapy for it, and EMDR.
At that point, her personality COMPLETELY changed into a person I don’t even know. She acts very erratic, sometimes delusional and says things that are obviously not true, but it seems like she honestly believes them. Recently she had a car accident, the police took her to the hospital, and after checking her out they admitted her to the psych ward. I thought good, maybe she’ll get some help, but they discharged her fairly quickly.
She told me it was just a fender bender, but a short time later she got a new car, which makes me wonder if her other car was totaled, and she didn’t want to tell me.

We talk occasionally, but after a short time she starts getting argumentative and I have to let her go. Sometimes she hangs up on me. There is more, but this is too long already.
Mainly, I am just reeling from the loss of my daughter as I knew her. The grief feels almost as if she died. We were very close and talked every day. She was my touchstone. Now she hardly ever calls.
Thank you so much if you read all this. I do feel better from just getting it off my chest. I see the evidence of such amazing growth in all your posts. I think I will feel at home here.

I am so glad to have found this group an this thread.  This is my first post, brand new here.  NOT brand new to life with a BPD child, sadly.  I say "child," but my adult son is almost 32 now.  Early in life, he was diagnosed with ADHD, ODD, depression/anxiety, Bipolar (misdiagnosed with that, we found out later), and finally, BPD about 10 years ago.  He is an alcoholic, and smokes pot.  He is my son from a previous marriage, and my current husband and I have now been married for 25 years and have two sons of our own.  They, too, are grown (youngest is 22, middle son is newly and happily married--I finally got my "daughter" in my daughter-in-law!). 

SUCH a long story, but we have had such a troubled past.  My BPD son's bio dad left us when my son was about 2 1/2 and I SWEAR a "switch" was flipped in my son, and I started to see behaviors I had not before then.  My son was kicked out of 2 daycares before he was in kindergarten, was sent to a special treatment program for anxiety in "hospital school" (which is what we called it then, for his sake) in first grade because he was SO afraid that I might die while he was in school, and he would be left alone, that he ended up kicking the principal and hitting his teacher--sent to this program for a month when he was just 6.  Transitioned back to school in an EBD program, and eventually entered the regular classroom with an IEP.

When he was 17, he was diagnosed with High Functioning Aspergers.  I know he has a lot of dx's, but I have to say, I agree with each one!  He has always been so argumentative and defiant, emotionally immature and impulsive/explosive when triggered, anxious, depressed, says he feels "empty" everyday.  It has always made me so sad, and he CAN be very loving/sweet/easy going---until he is triggered or hurt, then LOOK OUT.  He has gotten into such rage episodes over the years, but doesn't remember much of what has happened during them, or that they even happened--so his perception of the past and what he has done and said is VERY different than what truly took place.  My husband and I have had to use tough love on him more than once, and he continually blames us for how we "abandoned him," and wouldn't come to his rescue, how we favor our two kids together, and how they have been treated differently, etc.  NOT TRUE.  They have ALL had the same opportunities and rules/boundaries.  Our two sons together are thriving in life, and are great kids--NO issues whatsoever other than normal growing up issues that we worked through.  VERY normal and appropriate for their age, etc.  My BPD son does not see that his whole life has been HE#$ because of HIS CHOICES. He never sees anything close to that, only that we abandoned him and were horrible and toxic.  QUITE the other way around, but he will NEVER see any of that.

Very recently, on my birthday weekend, in fact, we had a horrible altercation in which he was VERY intoxicated and refused to let us drive him home to his house, since we wanted him to leave.  We offered to bring him home safely, but he REFUSED to go.  He became aggressive and was yelling/swearing/name calling (the usual), until I finally said I would call the police if he did not settle down and just let us take him home.  He did NOT like that at all, and began to lunge at my phone to try to take it from me.  My youngest son was home with me at the time (thank goodness), and had to physically wrestle him to the ground and hold him back while I called.  The police took his blood alcohol content and he was WAY over the limit. We STILL offered to bring him home if he would just settle down, but he continue to swear/name call/fight.  They had to put him in cuffs and take him to detox.  As he left he said, "You are dead to me."  It was so traumatic, I still cry just thinking of it.  Happy Birthday to me--he didn't care at ALL what day it was. And get this--a few hours later when he sobered up, he called me to demand that I come and pick him up!  AND he said we had "no right" to do any of this, that "my plan backfired" because he wasn't even drunk, and that they were saying I was "crazy" at the hospital/detox area, wherever he was brought to.  I did NOT pick him up. 

Since then, we saw each other only once to try to talk as a family, and it ended with him telling us to get the F$%! out of his apartment.  We went as a family to try to work through things and go over some boundaries we wanted to enforce (like no drinking at our house if he is to come and visit).  I have been "rage texted" so many times since (and a million times before all of this for YEARS), and try as I might to not reply, I end up getting sucked in. Thinking I will just set him straight once and for all, but it does NOT ever happen.  He turns everything around, and NEVER hears the little lesson I am trying to teach, or hears the TRUTH of a situation.  He doesn't even acknowledge when I say we love him and want him to be a part of our family. 

He REFUSES therapy or detox, and always has.  He claims his friends are his family, and we just ambushed him when we tried to meet to talk, and that we have always been toxic and horrible, and that he will be making other plans for Christmas.  Not sure he will follow through with that, but I did not respond to that text.  Part of me wants nothing more than that, but the other part of me is grief stricken, sad, guilty, wondering if I SHOULD have done something differently?  But then it's like, wait, NO...I do not have to be treated that way, abusively for so many years.  Enough is enough.  Yes, there definitely needs to be more resources for parents like us in these situations, and I am so glad to have found at least ONE other person who maybe has a small clue as to how this rollercoaster of a life has been.  I always want to hold out hope for something more--something better--for that little boy in him who IS loving and gentle, sweet and just wants to be held.  It hurts to keep him at arms length, but I feel I need to go no contact (as well as the rest of my family).  He will not do well--he does not have a good job, does not have money, may become homeless...it does not look good.  But we just can't keep doing what we have been doing.  I am so lucky to have nothing but support from my husband and other sons who cannot STAND how my BPD son acts or treats me (or them).  We all have found ourselves at our wits end, and it hurts my heart, but I just don't now what else to do.  Anyone know of any good online therapist who can help with this?  Sorry for the long post--hard to keep it short!  Feels good to "talk" to people who understand.  Thank you so much for listening.

Hi holdingontohope, it looks like we are the only ones here at the moment. I see so many similarities to my story in yours. Some of the same diagnoses in our kids. It’s so hard, but we need to create a safe peaceful place for ourselves.
I just read a book that helped me to separate a bit from my daughter, who is very angry and lashing out at me at the moment.
The book was about a mother’s journey with her son, who is schizophrenic, but it was really about her, and all the things she went through were things we all here go through. Toward the end of the book, after much sorrow and anguish over her son, she reached a point where she just sat down and said I am DONE.
Whatever happens with him happens, even if he dies, I have to have my own life.
When I read that I realized I was at that same point, and as they say in AA, which I am a longterm member of, “Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.” I learned I needed to let go of all that anguish, which damages me, and does not help my daughter anyway.
It’s hard to do, and I don’t always succeed at it, but when I let it go, I actually feel my tight chest relaxing and I feel free for a while.

Anyway, the book is “He came in With It,” by Miriam Feldman if anybody is interested. (I hope I’m not breaking any forum rules by mentioning it).

I've been taking a little break from the board but just need to talk. After my run of successful phone calls with my son since September, he called and threw it all away in a few minutes, calling me a b****, etc. Then he sent the inevitable long apologetic email. I'm not biting, but of course, but it's Christmas, my weakest time. Shunning my son during Christmas. Just goshdarnit (g-rated version).

Murmom, I agree that it's the history here on this board that helps open your eyes. I'm so glad you feel seen here. I know from experience how much that helps. Beatrice, yes, so so hard to go NC by choice. Showjumper, you and I have a similar thing going on with our adult kids. It sounds that while they both had their issues, one day they suddenly changed and became different people. My son was always so sweet and never raged at me. I was just his biggest supporter and helper. Now, like you, everything's changed, and I'm just left grieving my "dead" son. Holdingontohope, wow what a truly difficult time you've had recently. I hope everyone knows that you can't write "too much" and that someone will always read every word and even if no one responds you're helping by just adding to the collective wealth of experience here. 

New here, but what a helpful summary of the struggles being faced. Thank you for that Leaf, and I’m so sorry to hear of the emotional whiplash you recently experienced. It’s so familiar and so very painful.

We also are looking at HOW to do Christmas. At Thanksgiving she came upstairs, got a plate and isolated in her hoarder room. The same kind of request will be put in place for this holiday. While last month was sad, it was also freeing, knowing that the tension and worry of an explosive episode would be less likely.

Hi, Showjumper.  I am sorry, I didn't see this post until now.  I am still learning how to use this site--and I think I may have to change something in my settings so that I know when a message has been posted?  I will work on that. 

Thank you for responding, and I hear you.  My husband and I have gone to AA meetings in the past, but have not gone for years, now.  Makes me wonder if we should begin again.  I hear what you are saying that we have to truly "let go" and I have had that "I am DONE" moment more than once lately.  I am not all the way there, though--working through it, and realizing I need to get to that point, too.  What makes it so hard for me is what I will have to do when he comes back to me as soon as something bad happens--like his car breaks down, or his roommate kicks him out, or he loses his job and has no money.  He will cry, and tell me he NEEDS me, and can't do this alone, has nowhere to go--am I to STILL say no and turn my back on him?  It goes against everything in me to do so, but I KNOW he needs the tough love, and NEEDS to feel the pressure to make a change, and NEEDS to learn and grow from this.  But, he is already so angry at us for doing similar things in the past, if I am truly done once and for all with enabling him (I truly thought it was support, but see now that it wasn't)--will he EVER see the truth of the situation, and know how much is HURT me to have to say no and detach from him?  I just get swallowed up with pain even thinking about it, it makes it hard to move forward or get through the day, sometimes.  It can be so very all consuming, and that is hard.  :( Thank you for the book title, I will have to look into it.

And, thank you, Leaf56--your response brought instant tears to my eyes.  Just knowing someone read my words and truly heard me takes  just a bit of my pain away for the briefest of moments.  I am sorry for what you have been experiencing lately, as well.  Tough stuff, for sure. And yes, especially during the Christmas season.  I live for the hope that it won't always be so.

My daughter is in jail... 5 words I never imagined uttering. My incredibly intelligent, educated and beautiful 36 yr old daughter has finally hit bottom. Leaf – you were correct. Apparently it wasn’t a big leap from throwing eggs to physical assault. I’m told there were multiple complainants (old boyfriends) and multiple charges.
After hearing the news, I didn’t sleep for about a week, and when I did sleep, I awoke in a panic, wondering what would become of her. She’s unemployed, broke (likely bankrupt), without her dog, and incarcerated. Lots of deep breathing and Alanon reading to get back to a state of relative calm...
Thanks to some folks I know with insights re her specific situation and "the system", I've been assured she is ok and has accepted her situation. Here's hoping she takes advantage of mental health resources that should be available to her.
Strength to all.

Oh Tulipps, I am so sorry to hear this about your daughter. My heart goes out to you. We think they’ve done the worst thing, and then there’s more.
The sleepless nights probably made it so much worse I would think. I know for me, when there’s a lack of sleep I can’t even think straight. You did so well though by doing Alanon readings and getting to a relatively calm state. I don’t know that I would have been able to pull myself back from it that soon.
I wish you well.

Oh gosh, Tulipps, so so sorry this is happening. It just never ceases to amaze me that these kids of ours, who were given and born with every opportunity, make these choices. Nothing in my son's upbringing would ever have hinted that the state he's in is where he'd end up and clearly you feel the same way about your daughter. It's just astonishing on a daily basis. What are your hourly thoughts on getting involved?

Ugh, I am so sad, and I don’t feel like writing but I need to.
So today I made the mistake of picking up the phone when DD36 called me. We had talked a day earlier and it went well, though I think I instinctively ended it before it could devolve. It’s the holidays and she keeps indirectly mentioning coming up here. I’m so sad that’s not going to happen. My son and his girlfriend invited me to their house and I’m going. He casually mentioned “This will be your first time not seeing her for Christmas,” which just stabbed my heart.
I’m only 6 months into this and wish I had more experience dealing with it. Something has come up regarding her that I can hardly bear to talk about because it makes it somehow more real.
So I have a psych/neuro doc that I’ve had for more than 20 years (I have Bipolar, and it’s well treated. I live a pretty normal life). I’ve been talking to her about DD all these years so in some sense she “knows” her, and years ago did a consult for her and was the first to diagnose her autism. Anyway, in describing my DD’s complete personality change, and with what she knows about her and discussing other diagnoses with me (all this is second hand of course), she has been looking for answers for me and she brought up the possibility that DD may actually have Frontotemporal Dementia and really thought she needed to have a brain scan. She’s well respected in the neurology field and at present she feels this fits more than anything else.

I can’t tell you what that did to me. To think after these 6 short months of change in personality I may be losing her - who she essentially is - forever. She does have mental and physical trauma from being a soldier in Iraq, and one, possibly two TBI’s.
My doc brought this dx up a while ago and wants me to contact one of her docs at the VA and see if she can get a neuro workup, but DD gets furious at any hint I may be interfering in her care and feels I don’t trust her to make her own decisions about it and am “treating her like a baby,” which I do not do at all. I am so scared that if I contact somebody, she’ll cut me off completely, and then I would have no way of knowing if she had this. My worries all go to: what if she starts declining rapidly and can no longer care for herself? What if she loses her house, and on and on.
My son, 39 is very calm and level headed and told me he’s not going to worry until there’s a definitive dx.

When I talked to her today she seemed ok at first, then devolved into paranoia, talking about being stalked for ten years, sex trafficking going on in the Army and there is a big coverup, she’s joining the Canadian Air Force and is getting dual citizenship….all kinds of batsh*t (forgive me) crazy stuff. So that just seemed to me  to be confirming what my doc said. Doc said it’s fatal, and the course is usually in her experience 3-6 years.
I do not know how to wrap my head around this. I do not know how to be in this world right now. (FYI this is apparently what Bruce Willis has). Seeing those articles about him just makes me sad and numb. I can’t cry at all and wish I could as it would be some kind of release at least.
Thanks for listening. Any comments or advice is welcome.

Showjumper, how awful you must be feeling wondering if the diagnosis your psychiatrist proposed could be the cause of your daughter's sudden change in behavior. Have you discussed it with your daughter yet and if so is she willing to go for the imaging tests? From what I've read about it since you posted, it looks like it's super rare for that to happen to someone so young so I'm sure you're hoping for the best, but the fact that it has happened at all must make you wonder and worry. I hope you can stay in your sons' camp and keep it on the back burner of your mind until there is an actual diagnosis. Is it possible your psychiatrist just wants to rule it out with the tests but doesn't actually think it's a strong possibility? I hope so. When my son's personality suddenly changed 4 years ago I considered this type of thing or schizophrenia as the cause. Frankly I kind of wish it was, because then there'd be an explanation. But no, it was just the typical BPD reaction to my finally stopping overcaring for him and catering to his every complaint and no longer allowing him to threaten me with suicide. He can behave perfectly normally whenever he chooses to and especially if he thinks it'll get him something he wants.

Holdingontohope, as has been said here many times, "it's the hope that kills you." I'm pretty sure I've given up hope, but I try to remain openminded about his future even if that won't include me. This time of year is incredibly painful because you look back on a lifetime of happy cozy Christmases and really can only feel extreme sadness and disbelief that it's even happening at all. This is now my third Christmas without him. It's easier in some ways now I guess. Mostly I try to just not think about it and focus on my family that is with me. His brothers don't really want to talk about him, which I respect. At first I found that really hard, but now I feel like it helps. I really don't want to wallow and ruin their time either. After all, I've allowed too much of my brain time to be spent on him over the past 4 years, and they deserve a mom who's fully present in the moment when I'm with them. They've moved on and so should I.

Thank you Leaf for what you wrote. I am still at a stage where all of this feels so unbelievable. But yes, it’s happening. Glad to see the board back up. I have been getting so much out of all I’ve read. Yes, FTD is rare, that’s for sure. And with the BPD, I kept thinking, would someone in their mid 30’s just suddenly develop it? She’s always been just a sweet, sunny person. Volunteered at lot. She’s has though, always been a little too driven in the achievement department. I run a farm, and so growing up she was not catered to, it was more like all hands on deck here. My husband left after a 23 yr marriage (cheated, married the person he cheated with) so both kids went through that.
At this point I’ve thrown up my hands and just told myself it’s ok not to know right now exactly what she has, it’s more about symptoms.

I read over a journal I’ve been keeping since last July and it was eye opening in that what stood out was how much I’ve been either agonizing over this or madly searching for info, or using my whole therapy time to talk about her. And I need to stop. It’s killing me. I need to detach and take care of myself and not pick up the phone when she calls. We always have what I think is a “good” convo, but it always ends with some anger on her part that ruins it. (Or should I say, bursts my bubble that I can have good talks with her and then I tailspin).
So Christmas makes it worse for sure and possibly she’ll call less after, which would be good for both of us.

Leaf no, I don’t think she’d be open to any neuro testing, and she sure is not open to being dx’d with BPD either.  She accepts her C-PTSD dx. My doc is the only one bringing up the FTD dx and so cannot order any tests. DD will not let me contact her docs, so I don’t know what’s going on there, what they have or haven’t done.
At this point I’m resentful that I’ve let it take up so much of my time that I honestly feel like whatever happens, happens. I need to step back.

Funny you mentioned hope. I have a little sculpture of a bird sitting on a rock and it says hope on the rock, like the Emily Dickinson poem. I’ve always loved it, but now I find myself not liking the word.
I feel angry and cynical.

I took heart from what you said, Leaf, about just being there for your other kids and taking their lead in not wanting to talk about your son with BPD. I’m just going to try to have as good a time as I can with my son and his gf at their house.

I am so sorry for all that I have read--so sorry for what we are all going through in our different ways.  When I say I have hope, I guess I mean hope that ONE DAY this will all work itself out, and the truth will be known.  Now, that means on this side of heaven or the other--I am not naive enough to hang everything I have onto the outcome of my son doing what I want him to do.  I realize he may, and he may not--I can pray everyday for the best possible outcome, and try to find my peace regardless of what he does or does not do.  Some days are easier than others, for sure.

I'm feeling extra sad and hopeless tonight. I've had vertigo for 5 weeks, and it's just worn me down so much. My son just texted me from his dad's phone asking if I'd gotten the apology email he sent. I replied that yes I had and that I didn't feel much like responding since he'd called me a bitch the last time we spoke. As we always say, if anyone else treated us like these kids do we'd cut them out of our lives in a heartbeat. Sorry, I'm just so sick of this spinning head.

Hi livednlearned,
It started 5 weeks ago after a very long car ride to visit son number 3 at college. I went to the ER, and they thought it was BPPV and said I should see an ENT. I just did the hearing and balance testing this past week and doc says it's not BPPV because I don't have nystagmus, and he referred me to orthopedic to see if it could be cervicogenic, so I guess that's next. I haven't really been dealing with it long enough to know if stress makes it worse, but I'd imagine it doesn't help  :) I just hope it stops soon!! Have you been dealing with it long?

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