BPDFamily.com

Hi all,

I thought this worthy of a new topic. So those following my story will know my dbpdw and I moved to a new home just over a year ago. 5 hours drive away from our families… I’m settled here with a great job piano teaching at a school and working for myself. I’m very happy being a mother to our three young children. And I love this house.

Needless to say, my bpdw is not happy. She has struggled to make friends or meet anyone or more recently find a job. She does act needy when meeting people but then I do think it’s because making friends is so difficult especially this online day and age. I’ve given up myself. I prefer to build good relationships with those around me but not expect anyone to want to hang out or meet for coffee etc. not that I’d be allowed such a friend by my wife but that’s not the point. I am over it which I think is partly because I am 15 years older than my wife, though it continues to puzzle me how people have friends when none of them seem bothered about it but nevermind..

I have recently spoken about how my wife wants me to quit my job and now she has found a very good way to try and make me. She wants to move house again. She has very conflicting ideas about where she wants to go. She has always fancied Florida and is also jealous because I emigrated with my ex so it’s “not fair” if she doesn’t get to do that. She also wants to go somewhere where it snows at Christmas and yes we know it doesn’t snow in Florida ;) so looking at Scotland and also other places in the USA. She wanted to go to Scotland originally but I convinced her not to go so far from our families. Funny thing is my mother would happily hop on a plane to Scotland but her parents probably won’t do the drive or flight. W is very angry with her parents having recently read social service concerns paperwork from her childhood.

I don’t think we can emigrate due to our debt and potentially my wife’s mental health history, there are no recent bpd concerns on her medical record but many allegations of abuse later retracted given to the police in childhood. She claims she was abused but always took it back after telling people and the police. I think it is likely given her ptsd symptoms and mental health. We are also in lots of debt so it’s doubtful we can get a mortgage here or abroad and we would need one as lots of money seems to get swallowed in a house sale and of course w wants a bigger better house and in some cases lots of work to be done. I’ll still be paying off the new bathroom here for years to come.

Anyway w has been looking at houses all over USA and in Scotland. The houses she likes there are very remote but she said it’ll keep her occupied. She likes the views but I said she’ll just be looking at her phone with Christmas movies playing on tv just like here and she agreed. She wants her life to be like an American Christmas movie.

I have been looking at jobs and practicalities. Am I joining her in her delusion? I am validating her feelings and supporting her. She is happiest when planning something but never when or after it has happened. I like her being happy after such a long time hating on me, but can’t hide my disappointment at the idea of moving on so soon. I am devastated having moved to a wonderful town and job and being very happy here (apart from my marriage of course lol). Our eldest is due to start school next year and I do agree it’s better to move children when they’re young so as not to disrupt them as much. But I wanted to stay here. One reason my wife is happy is because she feeds off my negative emotions. She is arranging for the house to get valued etc. and I said I feel upset and unsettled and she says that’s how she feels all the time. And she never wanted to move here as her Nanny was from Scotland so she wanted to go there anyway. But I feel like she is even more happy about it because I am unhappy. I’ll be ok. I am a survivor. I’m up for a challenge and I can settle in and make it work anywhere, but the stupid thing is I know she won’t be happy. I like moving on for sure I’ve done it all my adult life. I’m tired of it. But I love that feeling when people say goodbye with tears in their eyes. I don’t want to go but I’ll be looking forward to that. Feeling loved I guess.

I watched my father do this- there seemed to always be something that my BPD mother would "fixate" on at the one thing that would make her happy. We all went along with it - whatever it was.

I think my father joined her in her delusion because, he really wanted to see her happy. He did love her. But there were consequences to this- one of them financial as you have seen, and the attempts didn't work. However, as long as they were together, there was this pull from her to have whatever it is that might make her happy- and since he wanted her to be happy- he did what he could to provide that.

My father was intelligent, logical, but it seemed he was also willing to suspend critical thinking when it came to my BPD mother.

But if one considers the results of the efforts- they didn't work to make her happy because- her BPD is a part of who she is- and affects her wherever she is. As you obsevered though, the shared delusion has a payoff - in the moment, you feel loved and bonded in the shared delusion.

Your wife has the delusion. You are not delusional but are choosing to share this with her because by doing so- there's the emotional benefit to you. There's a cost to this though and it is in finances and employment. For any behavior, the behavior will continue if the benefit is higher to the person than the "cost". Even high cost behaviors work like this. A person addicted to drugs will seek the "high" even if there's danger to themselves.

There's an emotional benefit to sharing this "seeking happiness" idea with your wife and also a financial cost to you. Which will overide the other? 

From a moral and philosophical standpoint… I feel if my wife is only happy during the planning stage of anything… then I’ll let her have that. The cost could certainly be our marriage, if I force her to stay in this miserable existence against her will (though let’s not forget she is unhappy with our marriage and sex life anyway). I’m coming round to the idea of moving on and new beginnings. I feel I’ve touched so many hearts with my nomadic lifestyle, I’ll be sad to leave but I’m almost addicted to that emotion even though it isn’t my choice. It’s infuriating because it takes me about a year to build up my business in any one place during which time I am totally broke. But then it’s no more infuriating than the amount of takeaways that get put on credit card by my wife etc etc. Ha ha I just had the funny thought that if we live in the middle of nowhere there will be no McDonald’s or pizza delivery! I have just applied for a piano teacher job in South Carolina. Haha I know little about the states having only been to San Francisco, California, Vegas and NYC. But it’s more experimental at this stage. I am absolutely embracing the challenge and I enjoy research. Mustn’t get too excited or my wife will turn the other way again.

I live in the states. There's Mc Donald's and pizza for take out/delivery everywhere. BPD will follow no matter where you move.

From my own perspective, the decision to constantly move in order for your wife to attempt to soothe her internal feelings is a choice. There's a financial impact and also one for your your children. They are very young now but as they get older, changing schools, trying to make new friends, is disruptive but these don't matter as much when it comes to your wife's feelings or wishes. You will do anything for the sake of some momentary happiness with her- no matter what the emotional or financial cost is to you or your children. Yes, you feel love for your children, and do what you can to take care of them but--- when push comes to shove, they are less significant when it comes to your wife and her feelings.

If you are willing to toss financial stability and your own job security to the side, and the well being and stability of your children to the side so that you can have a happy moment with your wife, know that this is a choice on your part.

Posted that message because, I observed my father doing it. Choosing to suspend logic and reason, and his own judgment and somehow join my mother in her delusional thinking.

Just a few posts ago, your wife was asking you to give up your job. You recognized that the financial support of the family depends on your job and resolved to not quit.

You wanted your mother to have contact with the kids and stood up for that.

Now, your wife wants to move and you wish to do that too. Yet, moving invoves giving up the two things you recognized were important to you: your job and also the kids having contact with your parents.

Your parents are getting older. They may not be able to travel long distance to see your parents. You will lose the traction you gained at your job.

Something seems to have switched in your thinking. I have seen my father do this too. Is this really what you want?

Your wife is ALL over the place, and it's all magical thinking.

Something to consider: social services including medical care are far more limited in the USA than what’s currently available to you where you live.

I would recommend visiting Scotland (you can drive it, make it an adventure, and it is much less expensive than airfare for 5 - [4 with a lap baby]) if she wants to see snow.  Listing a BPD diagnosis on a tourist visa to the USA is reasonable grounds for the visa to be rejected (for life) by the American embassy, so I seriously doubt you can get immigration status for your wife as a tourist visa which is much easier to obtain.

The UK has public health, the USA does not.  You would need private insurance for health care for everyone in your family, the last time I checked (4 years ago), it was around $1500 / month for a family plan, especially as one of your children have a life-threatening condition.  Since she has not worked in the USA, she would not qualify for public assistance either, I believe one has to work a minimum of 5 years or possibly even more to qualify.

American Christmas Movies (Hallmark Channel) are all feel-good make-believe situations, while there might be some basis that it is based on a true story, most details are 'made up'.  It is a 'feel good' fantasy.

My suggestion to you, since you know it is impossible (if her mental health is properly reported on the application), entertain your wife with the distraction of immigrating to the USA knowing that it should not be able to happen.  Let her come to her own realization.  If she is distracted by this, it will keep her less in your business.

However, if Scotland becomes her favored distraction, that is very realistic, as it is part of the UK.  Be mindful of your child's condition, as the highlands don't have too many hospitals, plus if you get stuck in the snow, it could turn out very badly for your child.



Let her have the planning stage of the (nearly) 'impossible dream' of moving to the USA. 

I too have felt that emotional addiction to 'drama' with my new volunteer job that I am doing. 

You do have a valid point of not having 'take-a-ways' in the middle of nowhere, but that also puts your child (and the rest of your family as well) at risk for health care issues. 

A piano teacher where I live (near DC) makes around $30 +/- per hour and is part-time work, which is not enough to comfortably raise a family of 5 with a house mortgage as this is well below poverty level if you wife cannot maintain a job, if she gets a minimum wage one you will be right around the poverty line.  I am just keeping it real.  It is nice to fantasize; however, this should be grounded in reality.

Just because the grass looks greener on the other side, it doesn't mean that it is, as it could be just green weeds.  Don't let me dissuade you too much.  Do your research, enjoy the challenge, but make sure you look at all facets of making this change and not just the ones that are appealing.

Take care with self-care.

SD

Thank you all for your thoughts. My wife is very dysregulated again for some reason so I won’t stop long as she’s convinced I have secret online friends and I think she’ll come into my room after we’ve said goodnight to see who I’m texting. She couldn’t be more right except that she thinks I want to have sex with everyone and I really don’t.

Not Wendy, I hugely respect your opinion and your advocating for my children’s rights. We have managed to scale back the plan to Scotland but not putting the house on the market until after Christmas and we’re actually going to Scotland after Christmas so we’ll be able to have a look. I’m well aware of financial concerns, healthcare in USA and also how hard you guys work. My wife immediately realised that actually far north Scotland is not near the endocrine specialists our daughter needs and she will always come first so we’re looking at more sensible options. My wife knows it won’t be easier to make friends and she also agrees we don’t want to move the children once they’re settled in school (she had a very hard time at school).

My mother actually could get to Scotland quicker on a plane than getting a train here so my only concern would be how hard that will be to arrange if the in laws aren’t doing it so it will be deemed “not fair”. I’ll keep you all posted anyway.

If moving were an original and authentic idea of yours- then, it's that, but is it really?  I have seen how my BPD mother is able to influence people.  If she wants something and there's a "no"- then she finds some way to go around the boundary.

It's not easy to withstand this process as she is persistant and can circumvent the boundary in increments. I hope I am explaining it clearly. One example is we were visiting a while ago and she wanted to have a big dinner and invite her relatives who we were seeing the next day. I told her no, we would be travelling and would see them tomorrow. So then she offered to get take out for us. The take out was from a fancy restaurant which made me wonder. It then dawned on me that the relatives would casually "drop in" and that she had planned to invite them anyway.

Since I said "no" to the dinner with guests, the next idea was to get me to agree to "just take out" but had I agreed to that, we'd have "unexpected" (invited) guests.

The only reason I was able to see what was happening was because I had worked on boundaries. Otherwise, I'd have gone along with it, thinking it was a good thing to agree to the take out.

It was different with my father as he would agree and also it seemed adopt her ideas as if they were his own. The boundaries between them were "fuzzy". Somehow her ideas became his ideas even if we knew he didn't agree- and they seemed to not make sense to us. He would somehow relinquish his own judgment or wishes and adopt hers-but they were the wishes of a dysregulated person.

Following your posts- the home you are in now took a financial leap and is at a distance you didn't want- and now you are in it and now she wants to move again. She wanted you to quit your job, you said no, and so now if you move, you will have to quit your job. Now, if all these ideas were your own authentic ones, then that is what they are. But from reading your posts, they don't seem to be.  You didn't post about wanting to move. You posted that your wife wanted to move and somehow it became your idea too.

This is the kind of thing that leads to people "losing themselves" in a relationship. They put their own judgment aside and adopt the disordered thinking of a partner. It seems reasonable at first to agree to the wishes of someone you love but doing so doesn't solve the marital issues and so the requests change.

Scotland is pretty but no matter where anyone is living- the activities of daily life are similar. Disordered people are disordered wherever they live.

ThankfulPerson,

   I am with NotWendy with the opinion that you should not move as NotWendy so eloquently put it...


A disordered person will be disordered wherever they live, my uBPD/uNPD-exgf lived in a very remote area of Montana in a very unique home, where there was still a single room schoolhouse for all grades, basically about 40 children in a 30 mile (48 km) radius (7300 square kilometers) with a total population around 400 people in that area, assuming 10 percent want to be your customer, that is 4 children per week maximum x $30 per session = $6,000 per year, can you live on that?

It was a beautiful place to visit, but not a place you want to live full time as the conditions were very harsh, especially in the winter, Montana is not unlike the scottish highlands, except for the lochs (which I have visited while working in the late 1990's) where the weather would change 5-6 times per day while there in the summer (cold rain wind sun shifting over and over again).  From what you have described of your home, that would be preferable to what you are intending.

I am going to remind you of a tool in the 'Stop Caretaking' book, she calls it something else, but I call it the 'passive-aggressive' tool.  Let your wife entertain her idea of moving; however, drag your feet and deliberately not let it happen as it will put you in financial peril if you do make the move to the Scottish highlands.  How much 'need' is there for a piano teacher in a rural area?  The population density is just not there to make an effective living.

No need to answer on the forum...  In addition to the prestigious school that you're teaching at (what is the likelihood of getting a similar job in the highlands?) how many children are you teaching in a given week (maximum, before you cut back to appease your wife).  How far away was the furthest student?  Use that as your radius, look up the population in your area (about 800,000 +/-).  While you will be in a pretty area, you will likely not be able to afford it, unless you have good reliable income.  Before even considering selling your property, make sure you have secured a good income where you will be moving to.  I know the economy is depressed here where I am, and houses are no longer moving from the pent up demand that COVID created for rural living and you get a lot less house for a lot more money, and the real estate agent fees (both ends - buying and selling (up to 10% for each transaction +VAT) - will put a big dent in your budget, up to 20%).

If you truly want to move, make sure it is not an impulsive decision, sleep on it until the new year, if not longer, make sure it is financially sound.  However, do think out all of the positives and negatives in doing so.  Use it as a tool to keep your wife distracted from more damaging behaviours, but maintain a good financial boundary that you are only willing to move, if you can afford it comfortably.

Take care with self-care.

Thank you both. Not Wendy, I do understand exactly what you mean. I remember one of the first times my wife was to visit my parents with me, we had only been together for a few months at that time. She was dragging her feet and refusing to get out of bed etc. My mother just wanted to know what time we were coming because she was cooking for us. And I said to my Dad on the phone, “We’ll get there when we get there! We aren’t the kind of people who can tell you what time we’ll be there…” Hang on a minute, I was 36 years old, and had always been a person to know what time I’d be somewhere, and make sure I honoured that. Surely my parents could see exactly what was going on way back then.

I’m not pretending I want to move, or that it was my idea. When she asks about how much shall we put the house on the market for? I say, I can’t answer that because I don’t want to sell it or move. She has had the house valued and astonishingly we picked up a good bargain without realising so could apparently make a nice tidy profit, even though there are multiple costs involved in moving. I’m under no illusions that my wife will be happier in Scotland or anywhere. But I do feel for her because she has struggled all her life, horrifically bullied at school and abused by family members, struggled in school from the beginning and feels let down by her parents and teachers and everyone. Never had a good friend until she met me. Failed at everything, school, college, jobs, even being a darn Christmas elf was too much for her (she has a second chance and a trial on Sunday, so we’ll see…) I am disappointed that my wife has not managed to make any friends in this area. She has tried so hard. You might think it sounds like she tried too hard. But really, she just wanted someone to hang out with and message occasionally. There’s only one person I think she came on a bit too strong with. The others have just been very difficult to organise anything with. This is why I don’t bother with friends. Like I said, I don’t get how people have friends as I was always that one to put in all the effort in my friendships, and when I stopped I lost all my friends, which was what I’d always feared would happen, but now I feel like I’m over it. Anyway, I just wish w had some friends to make her think twice about moving away… it’s not that she thinks she’ll make friends anywhere else. It’s just that there’s nothing to keep her here.

We aren’t looking at the highlands, we are looking at Glasgow which is quite populated in places, I could get a good job but it’s hard to get a job to teach piano in schools because piano teachers usually stay on till they retire! I have loads of experience doing different things but no matter what I do my wife is jealous because I like working (that’s how I perceive it anyway).

If I say I refuse to move then it will just be further ammunition of how I’ve ruined her life and make her suffer. She has always felt lost and wants to be in Scotland where her grandmother was from. She wants a bigger house like in those American movies and those are more rare in England and much more expensive. The scenery is stunning but then it also is round here. She also wants more snow, we do get a bit of snow here like right now but it’s never enough for her and doesn’t last. Once D4 starts school in September the pressure will be on even greater to move before she gets too settled in school and if we’re going to move I’d rather we moved sooner rather than later.

Something I have learnt from my wife is that our children are very securely attached, having co-slept, breast fed and spent most of the time asleep in her arms as babies. They are confident to explore, friendly and kind and seem pretty happy despite the anxiety I see in D4. I worked in pre-schools for over 12 years and I rarely saw children so confident and outgoing as D4 and D2. With my many years of early childhood experience I thought children became more confident when left to cope. (I don’t know why I thought that because I was actually the opposite of that). Anyway my wife has mostly done a good job with them,. I  know that moving lots isn’t good for children but I do think moving this one more time wouldn’t be bad for them as they adjust well in new settings. But no I’m still not saying I want to go. Just that she will be going on about it for the next 20 years while the kids go through school, and I feel I just don’t have the strength to fight it. “It’s all about YOU and what YOU want. YOU’RE happy and settled while I just have to SUFFER!!!”

Yes, but the feeling lost and not being able to make friends is not due to the location of where she is, and changing locations won't be the solution- because it's not the reason.

Likewise, you being accused of ruining her life is not the reason. You being settled and her "suffering" have nothing to do with location.

Understandable that you don't have the emotional strength to refuse the requests. It is extremely difficult to say no to my mother. I could see that my father would give in because of this. What I also have observed is that my mother engages in the same drama with other people- her caregivers, her medical providers, her family members.

You can decide to move but likely it won't absolve you from being the one she blames. What she is likely doing is projecting her uncomfortable feelings on to you, other people, where you live. She can put her hopes on Scotland but I think- from what I have observed- eventually she would become disappointed there too.

The not being able to make friends for her is because BPD affects all disorders. Friendship is a relationship. My BPD mother engages in similar dynamics with her friends as well. Even if someone is nice and pleasant in the interactions, for the relationship to proceed to closer friendship is also a "match" of interests and maturity.

It appears that my father did what he could do to fulfil my mother's emotional needs. That can be a choice, it can be your choice too. From my own experience of moving as a child, it didn't change my mother's BPD behavior.

But I do feel for her because she has struggled all her life, horrifically bullied at school and abused by family members, struggled in school from the beginning and feels let down by her parents and teachers and everyone. Never had a good friend until she met me. Failed at everything, school, college, jobs, even being a darn Christmas elf was too much for her (she has a second chance and a trial on Sunday, so we’ll see…) I am disappointed that my wife has not managed to make any friends in this area. She has tried so hard…….

Please read these again !!!

Can you say without a doubt that this is true.
That your wife truly has never had a chance in life until she met you??
I do not mean to sound sarcastic or without compassion but these are your wife’s disordered thoughts and opinions and justifications for why her life was miserable.
Sounds similar to my ex husbands - I was his rescuer and no one ever gave him a chance, he too was bullied so badly in school and his parents were no good….
I’m not saying anything here but trying to point you in the direction of bpd playbook with awareness!!!

Thanks again, how would you all suggest I tell my wife we’re not moving, (making me the adult who makes the decisions, which of course she despises). I don’t think, “we’re not moving” is the way to approach this? Obviously I can’t say, “You’re delusional and you’ll never be happy no matter where you go”. I had thought of it as a reason to again encourage her towards therapy, but she keeps avoiding the issues.

Not Wendy, interesting what you say about the friendships, I still struggle to understand why friendships have always been such hard work for me too. In fact that was the main reason my wife and I connected in the first place. My wife has applied for a job working with a person who is dbpd. Any idea how that would work out? The client seems to mostly want friendship, someone to help and encourage her to get out and do things. I’m curious to see whether this happens but like all the jobs my wife applies for, it seems unlikely to happen…

Tangled mangled what is this bpd playbook you speak of? I’m not saying my wife never had a chance, I just feel sorry that she struggles with everything and always had done and I’ve seen social services records of her childhood that confirm it. I think part of the reason she wants to move is to take me away from my work and feeling settled but fact is I would just start again and soon become settled. I love what I do and all the jobs I’ve done, I’m very philosophical feeling I’ve met so many people for good reason and that I’ll continue to, wherever I am…

I’m also so forever thankful for bpd family…

It seems every pwBPD has a sob story about how people have betrayed them, haven’t appreciated them, haven’t been willing to form friendships with them, don’t have time for them, like other people better than them, don’t include them, aren’t their besties, don’t invite them, don’t include them like they include people  *they really like*, never think about them, etc.

The way I’m looking at it now, admittedly with a jaundiced perspective, is that much of these claims are projection.

As we experience with our BPD partners, there are behavioral signs that are off-putting to others. Those of us with intimate relationships with pwBPD get the brunt of it. However, I think that outside acquaintances also experience *weird vibes* from pwBPD and for that reason, keep their distance.

I don’t think this pattern is subject to change no matter where you live.

It's not only with BPD that people experience issues with making friends, but BPD is a disorder that affects all relationships.

Besides having a mental illness, our families of origin have an influence on our relationships. So do our personalities- if someone is introverted or extroverted.

Boundaries are a part of this too. If someone has healthy boundaries, they will feel wierd vibes around someone who doesn't.

The "BPD" playbook- I think this is about taking victim perspective on the Karpman triangle and seeking a rescuer. Being rescuer - being needed- that is a tendency for some people too. My father was in rescuer role for my mother. It feels good to be the "good guy" hero.

For the person with BPD- it's the victim role that has the emotional payoff and with the tendency to project- to have victim perspective- someone or something is the persecutor.

This perspective that nobody cared for your wife until you came along. "Never had a friend until she met you". This is victim-rescuer dynamics.

I don't think there's a way to say no to moving without some reaction on the part of your wife. It is difficult to be the "bad guy". Like Cat, I also have come to recognize that this is part of the dynamics.

Prior to becoming aware of BPD and realizing that my husband fits the diagnostic criteria as defined by DSM-5, I had tried to negotiate all of our disagreements by implementing a win/win solution: i.e. I’d give in on some of my wants, thinking he’d do the same.

While this strategy may have worked satisfactorily on insignificant issues, it failed miserably on *big ticket items* or on issues where he was deeply emotionally invested. In those instances, it seemed like we were playing a zero sum game: he got everything he wanted and I was the one to surrender my wants and needs. And if I didn’t, there was a price to pay—his angry withdrawal and subsequent moping and guilt trips.

When I finally decided I was no longer going to let my equally valid wants and needs be overrun, I learned that by holding firm to my beliefs, not engaging in disagreement, validating that his choices were understandable but not the same as mine, I discovered that what I’d feared—his disapproval and behaviors that could follow, subsided after a time, and then we were back to baseline once again.

My thought is that your wife is uncomfortable in her skin. People pick up on that and are put off by how she presents herself. This is unlikely to change unless she makes a concerted effort to improve her emotional intelligence. As we so often read on this forum, people with BPD externalize their emotional issues, thinking that things, places, people, experiences will somehow *fix* whatever it is that is making them feel emotional discomfort, only to subsequently chase the *new* because the *old* didn’t provide the relief they had hoped for.

In addition, I think pwBPD look to their partners to provide stability and assurance. If you waver in your attitudes and beliefs, then it gives her ammunition to believe that a *better life* is out there and the present should be abandoned in search of the *ideal*.

Thank you both for these thoughts. My wife has indeed been a victim and surrounded by drama all her life, I have read her social services/police records which are extensive, she was physically attacked many times as a child and teen and I do think she was just too different to be accepted and I do think it is related to the abuse and neglect, there were also allegations made to police of abuse later retracted but then interestingly she also completely faked a cyber bullying episode and of course got found out. I have been aware there were lots of lies when we met online, but she doesn’t even remember much of her childhood which I do find very sad. She is jealous of my memories even though I also struggled to fit in and was suicidal as a teenager. I also know that since I’ve known her, my wife has been rejected many times by friends and also there have been occasions at college/work where everyone has been invited to events except her for no understandable reason.Those she does connect with tend to be needy with various mental illness issues… of course they are self-centred and unreliable friends.

What do you suggest I say, when she speaks again about selling the house and moving on?

I do realise that those compromises, where usually people might appreciate each other, just don’t work at all with a pwbpd Like I thought when I gave up my whole life on the other side of the world to be with her, she would appreciate it and be at peace. Um no. Wrong.

Good news: My wife managed her 1.5 hours elf trial today, she really enjoyed it and is down for an 8 hour shift next weekend. I am looking forward to the freedom because she has become so clingy of late and always wants to ring me the second I stop teaching and then complains that we have nothing to talk about… she will not have her phone at all during working hours. I’m looking forward to having some time with the children on my own. Since my wife has felt positive about being taken on as an elf again, she has not mentioned moving. I’m sure she’s not forgotten about it but hoping she’s feeling happier and won’t be so desperate to move. She’s struggling to find work for after Christmas though but I really hope she does as I think it would be very good for her and our marriage.

I know that this is the bettering thread; however, I do know that you have voiced a lot of conflict about staying in the relationship.  You could call her bluff, a term used in the card game poker (only if you are not terrified of not following though on your bluff) by suggestion, that you have no issue with her leaving to find a place that she can afford, but you would like to stay right where you are at, as you cannot find another prestigious job at teaching piano.

While the circumstances were different, I too called my wife's 'bluff', and it turned the balance of power from her to me - a very liberating feeling for me, and one where my wife became more complacent.  It is something for you to think about.  What are your feelings on this?

Glasgow is a nice area, SW section of Scotland, a few hour drive from where you are at now.  I know it is incredibly hard, but please try not to let your wife dictate what you can and cannot do with regards to your career - that is incredibly abusive of her, not to mention overstepping her authority over you.

I have a 'bigger house', it is a lot to care for, the maintenance is more, the utilities are more, the taxes are more.  Bigger is not better.  I have lived in a row house as well when I was younger, the maintenance was much more manageable.  How did your home across the world compare to the one that you have now?



With regards to the moving questions, I will revert back to my suggestion of the 'bluff'.  Alternatively, you could ask your wife to find you a job that pays as good if not better than the one you have right now in Glasgow - put the ball in her court to solve (you know she cannot), but let her try - I know it is being passive-aggressive-like, but it is for her own good, and the good of your children as well.

Job with a dBPD...  I would encourage that behavior, it will provide her a distraction for the job application process.  It will also make available a new friendship opportunity; however, it will only likely last as long as the limmerance lasts - a long shot, it may require her to learn about that person's BPD, and in turn she can learn about herself - I used this strategy with my pwBPD, about a year ago with some success, when I told her I might have it (based on the excessive projection and transference my wife did to me).

BPD playbook - not really a thing; however, all borderline behaviors are very similar to each other, so much so, that their behaviors are all too predictable, hence the analogy to the "BPD playbook".  Once you can predict a pwBPD behaviours, then you can compensate for them, in order to normalize the dynamic instead of being stuck in the toxic cycle of a disordered relationship.


That is a very good observation.  Those that are needy, just as she is needy, can be good friends as well - you just need to proceed with caution as they will be a codependent type relationship.  Encourage her to lower her standards (to where she is at) in order to make friends.

With the house, I have given you two ideas, call her bluff, or make impossible demands of her (find an as good or better paying job).

pwPD's are generally selfish, as they don't know any better, they are emotionally stunted at a toddler level, and as such will behave that way emotionally.  Toddlers are not good at making compromises, I know my wife isn't.

I am so happy that your wife will be an 'elf'.  It should boost her self-esteem/image.  Perhaps wait until she had a good day at work, speak to her feelings about how lovely it was, and focus on the positives of staying in the area.

Also, like I suggested for your wife to find you a job in Glasgow; perhaps, you can keep your eyes open, or network with your clients on what might be a good fit for your wife after the holidays.  What do you think about that?

As always, take care with self-care.

SD

SD, thank you for your further thoughts. As you know I am a people pleaser and I want you all to be proud of me and I feel so powerless right now and actually very down and I honestly think I am torn between pleasing my wife and pleasing bpd family and I know that’s not what any of you are about but just wanted to share. I remember a few years ago I perceived that my brother was treating me like sh1t and in discussing it with a few people I came to the conclusion that it was easier for him to upset me than his controlling wife because she’s the one he has to live with…

Anyway… I’ll try to address your thoughts. My wife knows it would be my responsibility to find a job and she would not entertain this idea of her finding me a job and I think it would greatly annoy her because she is struggling so much to find a job herself. Fact is I have moved around a lot and built up my business in different towns and countries and I do believe myself to be a fantastic piano teacher and good at the other jobs I’ve done. I’m sure there are prestigious schools in the Glasgow area but as I said piano teaching jobs in schools are very hard to come by…

I can’t call her bluff encouraging her to move away with the kids, (Not that she could afford it but it is very easy to get credit over here, even a person with her financial history..) There is a possibility that she would try and do this. Even if she was just bluffing, I feel it would be a very risky move to take at this stage of our marriage, where it is my perception that we’re now getting on a hundred times better than we were a few months ago (I’m sure she would deny this but it’s nice to not be so persecuted for a while…)

And then there’s this. The result of me refusing to support the move, calling her bluff, or putting the ball in her court to find me a job… would predictably be that she would blame me for ruining her life and not allowing her any opportunities etc etc.

I know about extinction burst. It has worked effectively for me in the past with things like having showers when I wish to, video calling my parents without her permission, playing the piano, wearing what I want etc etc. My wife very quickly realised (it seemed) that maybe she didn’t have the right to control me doing these things. But here’s the thing: Child kicks and screams to get what they want. And they do get what they want. Then suddenly one day, the behaviour doesn’t work and the child can be retrained to understand that that behaviour doesn’t get rewarded. Pwbpd (metaphorically) kicks and screams to get what they want. They don’t get what they want. They carry on kicking and screaming. For years. Because the payoff is not to do with the results they are getting. The payoff is the fact that is makes them feel better to be shouting or screeching or whatever and always always blaming someone else (often their partner).

I am trying to work on not giving a f*ck and I have come on in leaps and bounds if you were to look at my whole journey since joining bpd family nearly 3 years ago. I know that my wife will likely always criticise and blame me for something and that moving won’t make her happy or make her appreciate me. But the fact is, she believes I would be holding her back, where you say she is being abusive, she would say I’m being abusive. She is much younger than me and has not had the life opportunities, traveled, emigrated… she has had different opportunities with having babies, but doesn’t see it that way. She also wants to feel close to her Nanny who passed away, who was from Scotland, which is understandable. It doesn’t sound like they were very close but she truly loved her Nanny. And I’m not sure if this is connected, but Nanny was also the mother of the monster who raped her.

I just don’t have the strength to face the next 20 years of being blamed for this not happening. I know I should be taking one day at a time and I try to focus on the actual present.

Yes my home in New Zealand was much larger. I hated it, partly because I didn’t have any babies to put in all the bedrooms, but also because there was so much cleaning I couldn’t keep on top of. My wife’s answer to that is that we’d get a cleaner. I’m not sure where we’re suddenly going to be able to afford that. I used to be a cleaner and I’m very good at it but my wife doesn’t like me cleaning because she prefers to have my full attention.

Anyway, that’s where I’m at right now and feeling very weak. My strongest card is that I absolutely will not agree to sell until we have found a house we both love in the perfect area, with jobs, good schools and the medical specialists our daughter needs. It will also be on the understanding that we do not wish to disrupt the children’s schooling so we will not be moving away again, if this does happen. The system here is that you need proof of an offer on your house before you can even look at other houses, however, I do wonder whether they would make an exception when we’re up in Scotland after Christmas, as we’re living a long way away and have 3 little kids. They might put it to the sellers to decide.

Thanks again and please don’t feel like I’m not listening, I am hearing very clearly but struggling atm. Cat and not Wendy will remember I felt like this a couple of years ago when my wife was pressuring me to accept a low offer on our home from an investor in order to secure our dream home. We nearly ended up
doing it but then my wife changed her mind which I think she will never admit was largely influenced by me. I will NEVER allow things to get that bad again.

Random question: Cat mentioned about how “healthy” people have a bpd or crazy radar type thing that puts them off pwbpd’s. My wife sent an enquiry to a maths tutor who apparently works with all ages and abilities. She mentioned that she has always struggled with maths and it upsets her not being able to do simple things a child could do and she expressed that she’d like to study to a level to help her employment opportunities. He responded immediately, “I’m sorry I can’t help you”. As a tutor myself, I would always be more polite and give an explanation, though as I mentioned to her, he could have a child in hospital or be arguing with his partner or otherwise distracted… but this kind of rejection really does happen to her a lot. And it did make me wonder whether he picked up some kind of vibes from her message. And it did annoy me because it took a lot for her to contact him, she immediately asked, please could you let me know why you can’t help, but he has ignored it. She probably won’t contact anyone else now. I’d love to help her but she won’t let me.

“she immediately asked, please could you let me know why you can’t help, but he has ignored it.”

This is an answer to why emotionally healthy people would shy away from her. No means no, especially in a professional context, dealing with random strangers.

That she would follow up his refusal with a *why* question shows an extreme lack of proper social cues and it comes across as self absorbed or narcissistic. Undoubtedly she responds in similarly clueless ways in other contexts that puts off people immediately.

I know you know you don't have to choose between our advice and what decision you make with your wife. This is your marriage to decide on. I think the greater conflict is between choosing to go along with your wife's emotional thinking or your own rational thinking.

While this is the "bettering" board- improving dynamics by working on our part of them doesn't change how someone else thinks. If someone has disordered thinking- we can't change their thoughts or feelings. Your wife may think that you are the one holding her back from happiness if you don't agree to move. Yes, she may blame you for that. My premise is that you may be able to avoid this reason for the blame by moving but it won't change her thinking and likely something else you do or don't do will be something she blames.

Why you? BPD affects the most intimate relationships the most and you are the closest person to her.

What I wanted to point out is the shift in your own thinking- how at first you were not in favor of this move and then, it became "your idea" too. This is a form of abandoning your own judgement in order to please your wife. I would observe my father doing this. Usually, he was rational, but he could not say no to my mother for the same reason you can't say no to your wife. She loves the emotional struggle- the "kicking and screaming". She wins because those of us who don't just don't want to deal with this.

I understand what situation you are dealing with, and what my father dealt with because I am now dealing with my elderly BPD mother and trying to reason with her is very difficult. When it comes to rational decisions, or her emotional ones, she wins. I can resist her emotional reactions but she is able to manipulate others and get what she wants regardless, and I don't live with her. So I can only imagine that saying no to her is difficult in a romantic relationship and shared living space.

Sometimes I just give in, walk on eggshells, unless it's a major boundary for me. When I do though, I know that this is something I choose to do and I am responsible for that choice.

 On your part, your wife isn't "making you do this"- if you do it, you have chosen to do it. Albeit it's not an easy choice, but it's still a choice.

As to the tutor- maybe he did pick up on something or- maybe it's nothing to do with your wife. Maybe he's entirely booked up. Maybe he, himself, is a bit socially awkward and didn't reply politely.

One aspect of dysfunction is to make something personal that isn't personal. Your wife saw this as a rejection of her-  but it may not have been.

What makes me feel uneasy sometimes is when someone shares TMI with me and they don't know me well. If it's relevant to the conversation- that's OK. Sometimes it's not even something the other person says or does. People can sense boundaries on an emotional level. I might notice I feel uncomfortable around someone- but not know why I feel that way.

A question she could have posed to the tutor, which would more likely have garnered a response: “Do you know of anyone who tutors adults in math?”

The “pitching a fit” that pwBPD learn as a manipulation to get their desires met, doesn’t happen overnight. They’ve trained us to respond. And the more we comply, by giving them what they ask for when they have a tantrum, the more we establish that pattern.

I’ve dealt with a similar, but different, response from my husband. It took me a while to notice it, understand the dynamic, and finally break free from my automatic compliance. Instead of pitching a fit, he turns into a sad, pouty, depressed little child, eyes downcast and lower lip protruding.

Having dealt with depression myself, this behavior really tugged at my heartstrings…until recently…when I finally realized how manipulative it was…and how dysfunctional it is that a grown-azz man would find a need to resort to such a childish strategy.

And that’s what it is: a learned behavior that may have been ”cute” at age 3, but was never outgrown and at this point in life is ridiculous.

How to overcome one’s own response to these manipulative behaviors? It goes back to the concept of extinction bursts. If you really never again want to deal with tantrums or sad-faced child manipulation, you have to harden your heart and bite the bullet, vowing to never again respond to those behaviors in the way you have in the past—by giving in and complying with their demands.

Yes, it can get horribly ugly for a while, especially if that behavior is well established. But if you never waver, not even for a moment, and cling to your truth and your values, eventually…and it may take a very long time…but eventually that behavior will be extinguished because it no longer works.

However, it sounds like you don’t have a firm opinion about moving or not moving, so what I’m saying isn’t really applicable to this situation.

I’ve taken a stand when I’ve had very firm opinions in a variety of contexts. Though it’s caused some short term disagreements, overall it’s been a positive experience for me. There have been destination weddings of my husband’s nieces and nephews I haven’t attended. I don’t know them well and I’d rather stay home and take care of the ranch and the animals. At first my husband was irritated and felt abandoned that I wouldn’t be accompanying him, but later when he told me what a nightmare some of these trips were, he realized that I had dodged a bullet.

A few years back, I chose not to go on a vacation with him to another country, as he retraced his roots, growing up there for several years when he was an adolescent. I figured it was his journey and time to reminisce, and mostly we had very different styles in how we like to spend our vacation time. I’ve always wanted to do active, adventurous things, while he was content going somewhere and just reading a book. (You can read a book anywhere was my mindset—why not hike, explore, do fun activities? Now that he’s disabled, he doesn’t have the choice of doing anything adventurous.)

So yeah, he wasn’t happy with me for a while when I wouldn’t comply with his wishes, but he got over it.

Cat, not Wendy, thank you for your feedback. It’s interesting to hear your thoughts on the tutor. I myself am also inclined to take things personally and for many years believed the whole world was conspiring against me. And then as I grew older (grew up a bit lol) I realised actually most things have little to do with me, I worried lots about what people thought of me but then realised they generally don’t think of me at all. I might take it personally if someone responded in that way to me but I certainly wouldn’t question them as to why. My wife is just so fragile, it does seem she puts herself out there… gets knocked back… loses more confidence… and quits. It’s frustrating to watch.

I really don’t want to move and I’m not trying to justify my decisions by pretending I do want to. As a child I always longed to move house and move schools but never did. I yearned for something different, to meet different people (who I hoped would accept me) and I longed to leave England. When I did finally get to move and travel I liked the new beginnings, I love leaving anywhere because that’s when I finally feel loved. But when I look back I realise since I left home at age 21 I’ve been swept up in my relationships and I traveled and moved lots with my ex and then my wife and it’s basically been their decisions, I use their energy but really I’m just making the most of things. I honestly am conflicted, what I mean is, I don’t want to move or sell up or move on, i love our home and town and city and my job… but the idea of leaving and moving on and going and setting up home somewhere new is still an exciting challenge. We haven’t told our parents. I know my mother would hate the idea. Oh and our trip to Scotland after Christmas has been cancelled by the owners of the holiday home. There’s been a massive leak at the property or something so we have been given a refund. This is very annoying because we’re unlikely to find somewhere else with short notice and within budget so there will be pressure to spend more or the usual whining if we don’t go. It would be nice to have the money to spend on Christmas as my wife one minute says she and I won’t do gifts as we can’t afford it but then the next minute is disappointed because it’ll be a rubbish Christmas without any gifts. Usually I manage to ruin the day by buying her something she hates so tbh I’d like to try getting her nothing to compare the experience.

I think there's a larger question than do you want to move or not. I think it's a choice of two different "wants" but I think what drives the decision is based on fear.

In 12 step language, we look at what is called our "characted defects"- this is not that we are defective- we are not. It's not a defect of morals. It's what drives a behavior that is actually self serving but not in our best interest or our partners. One of these is fear. If we do something out of fear, even if it looks like we are being helpful or kind, it's actually self -serving to diminish that fear.

Fear isn't a negative emotion though. But we can consider all our emotions and decide to act on them. If a bear was chasing you, that fear is appropriate and acting on it by getting away from the bear is what one needs to do. But acting on some fears may not be necessary and it may hold us back from what we want to do.

Whether or not you wish to move isn't the larger question. It's- if you say no, the fear of your wife's reaction is greater than the fear of financial problems and of giving up the job and house you like by moving.

I think at the moment - your priority choice is to not risk the relationship and while this may involve other compromises, this is the decision you choose when there is a conflict.

To choose otherwise would require a change - being less fearful of risking the relationship or that the requirements of your wife are so unreasonable that you would not do them. To give an exagerated example, if she asked you to rob a bank, I hope you would not agree to doing such a thing because it's a large violation of your values. Interesting thing about boundaries is that pwBPD still sense what they are. They may test them, they may react but by holding them, they will learn that these are firm boundaries.

One example is with your children. They may ask for sweets for dinner. You know that by saying "no" they may tantrum. They may be angry, but it's not in their best interest to let them eat sweets for dinner. Saying yes to that will avoid the tantrum and they may act happy about that but then you set the expectation that they can eat sweets when they want to and saying no to them is difficult. If you give in to them after they tantrum, you have rewarded them for tantruming with sweets. They will know that having a tantrum works for them. Your wife also knows that certain behaviors work for her too.

It's your choice of what to do. Nobody is judging you- this is your marriage. However, thinking about why you make the choices you do might help you to understand them.

Not Wendy, thanks again for your wisdom and support. You are absolutely right. I’m feeling a bit more peaceful and powerful for some reason. Because I hold the power to make this decision. I will not be bullied into buying a home if I don’t love it more than this one, as I said along with local area, jobs, schooling, medical care etc. So she can put the house on the market but we still have to ultimately agree and tbh I’m feeling bored of her behaviour more than anything, just when I feel ready to end it all, I know I’m fantasising because I know I’m trying to keep things together for the kids and so that I’m here with them growing up. She never would have treated me this badly before the kids because I think and I think she knows I would have left her. Roll on Saturday when she gets to be an elf and I get to be a single mother for the day.

SD, thank you for your further thoughts. As you know I am a people pleaser and I want you all to be proud of me and I feel so powerless right now and actually very down and I honestly think I am torn between pleasing my wife and pleasing bpd family and I know that’s not what any of you are about but just wanted to share.

I must apologize for making you feel that way, I will try and be more sensitive in the future. What I would like for you is for you to please yourself - what does ThankfulPerson want for herself?  (While maintaining your moral values towards your children and other obligations).

Like NW indicated, she observed you flipping from one narrative to another in order to appease your wife, even though it made no logical sense based on what you had shared. I care for you as a fellow sufferer of a disordered person. Likewise, I feel as though others here as well care for you as well. That's what families do.


I remember a few years ago I perceived that my brother was treating me like sh1t and in discussing it with a few people I came to the conclusion that it was easier for him to upset me than his controlling wife because she’s the one he has to live with…

It sounds like your brother was blame shifting on to you, in order to appease his wife. Not cool, but that is part of the dynamic living with a disordered/dysregulated person.


Anyway… I’ll try to address your thoughts. My wife knows it would be my responsibility to find a job and she would not entertain this idea of her finding me a job and I think it would greatly annoy her because she is struggling so much to find a job herself. Fact is I have moved around a lot and built up my business in different towns and countries and I do believe myself to be a fantastic piano teacher and good at the other jobs I’ve done. I’m sure there are prestigious schools in the Glasgow area but as I said piano teaching jobs in schools are very hard to come by…

She would make it your responsibility; however, if you were to use the tool in "Stop Caretaking" book, I call it the passive aggressive tool, she calls it something else, where you make impossible conditions as a pre-requirement for the move, perhaps she will get bored of it and tire, especially if you [wrongly] put the responsibility on her shoulders. Kind of a distraction technique to block a determined borderline who wants to do something harmful to the family.


I can’t call her bluff encouraging her to move away with the kids, (Not that she could afford it but it is very easy to get credit over here, even a person with her financial history..) There is a possibility that she would try and do this. Even if she was just bluffing, I feel it would be a very risky move to take at this stage of our marriage, where it is my perception that we’re now getting on a hundred times better than we were a few months ago (I’m sure she would deny this but it’s nice to not be so persecuted for a while…)

I  understand how you feel about this. I also was petrified she would leave, and never in my mind thought to do this, it took our previous couple's therapist to make the first bluff for me to even allow me to see this as a possibility. I was amazed, she was begging, almost groveling on her knees for me not to leave. This played out 3 more times on perceived abandonments I was doing to her (I had the answer staring me right in the face at the time, yet I could not see it) before I got up the courage to 'call her bluff' when she threatened to abandon me half a year later in a couple's session. For me, it was a calculated risk that paid off, and it shifted the dynamic from her to me. This is definitely not for everyone; however, if your wife does a power play on you like that with divorce threats / separation make sure you have a pre-prepared response for her.


And then there’s this. The result of me refusing to support the move, calling her bluff, or putting the ball in her court to find me a job… would predictably be that she would blame me for ruining her life and not allowing her any opportunities etc etc.

Why is this predictable?  Why does she blame you for ruining her life?  Hasn't she blamed you in the past and present for this no matter how hard you try to appease her?  I have learned to grow a 'thick skin' with my wife, and let her blame-shifts roll off my back, I no longer let it bother me with 'radical acceptance' of these kinds of behaviors.


I know about extinction burst. It has worked effectively for me in the past with things like having showers when I wish to, video calling my parents without her permission, playing the piano, wearing what I want etc etc. My wife very quickly realised (it seemed) that maybe she didn’t have the right to control me doing these things. But here’s the thing: Child kicks and screams to get what they want. And they do get what they want. Then suddenly one day, the behaviour doesn’t work and the child can be retrained to understand that that behaviour doesn’t get rewarded.

So, what do you do when a child does that, you deny them what they want and crave and put them in a time-out. I have learned to do this with my wife, and there is a whole lot less drama going on with my wife than there was this time last year (this was her most recent act of domestic violence towards me, literally one year ago today).


Pwbpd (metaphorically) kicks and screams to get what they want. They don’t get what they want. They carry on kicking and screaming. For years. Because the payoff is not to do with the results they are getting. The payoff is the fact that is makes them feel better to be shouting or screeching or whatever and always always blaming someone else (often their partner).

I am being Captain Obvious here, I am going to state the obvious, stop giving them the payoff, and they will eventually tire of that behavior as they are not getting the results that they used to with these kind of behaviors. Just like the misbehaving child who doesn't want to be in timeout. While putting your wife in timeout is difficult - I found it best to put myself into timeout (sounds counterintuitive, but it isn't), by withholding what my wife wanted me to do in order to appease her bad behaviors. I will no longer reinforce or enable my wife's bad behaviors.


I am trying to work on not giving a f*ck and I have come on in leaps and bounds if you were to look at my whole journey since joining bpd family nearly 3 years ago. I know that my wife will likely always criticise and blame me for something and that moving won’t make her happy or make her appreciate me. But the fact is, she believes I would be holding her back, where you say she is being abusive, she would say I’m being abusive.

When faced with a false narrative, I usually wait until she is baseline, and then gently explain everything that I do (just the facts, not feelings) and then ask her how that can be blamed in the manner she mentioned. Usually when faced with facts that are contrary to her feelings she shuts down. However, if she is dysregulated, I do focus on validating her feelings and not mention the facts at that moment.


She is much younger than me and has not had the life opportunities, traveled, emigrated… she has had different opportunities with having babies, but doesn’t see it that way. She also wants to feel close to her Nanny who passed away, who was from Scotland, which is understandable. It doesn’t sound like they were very close but she truly loved her Nanny. And I’m not sure if this is connected, but Nanny was also the mother of the monster who raped her.

That is pretty messed up, that makes this much more difficult to understand why she would want to move to Scotland. I am wondering if your wife has made that connection? However, you said somewhere where it snows, which is something completely different.

I love to travel, I also love to explore my own backyard. During & after COVID lockdowns, I have found all kinds of local points of interest including a secret abandoned WWII POW camp in the middle of a forest that even the locals didn't even know about. Since the UK is much older, I am sure there is a lot more to explore and learn about there. You make opportunities where you are, you don't need to travel, even though that is nice. Also plan on making trips. Do one on a budget.


I just don’t have the strength to face the next 20 years of being blamed for this not happening. I know I should be taking one day at a time and I try to focus on the actual present.

I am 23 years in at the end of this month. I find each day, I get stronger and stronger. I do have setbacks, even feeling that everything is lost. I find that I have to have laser focus on the goal, don't waver, and go after it, and that is an abuse-free relationship first and foremost, and if there is room for reconnecting with my wife, that has become secondary. Once I shifted my priorities, it got better for me. You need to decide what you, ThankfulPerson, wants in her life, with her children, and her wife.


Yes my home in New Zealand was much larger. I hated it, partly because I didn’t have any babies to put in all the bedrooms, but also because there was so much cleaning I couldn’t keep on top of. My wife’s answer to that is that we’d get a cleaner. I’m not sure where we’re suddenly going to be able to afford that. I used to be a cleaner and I’m very good at it but my wife doesn’t like me cleaning because she prefers to have my full attention.

I had a cleaner too, when we could afford one. Now that I am retired, we don't, I clean, my wife cleans, and my kids do to. Your wife has your full attention, but do you have your wife's full attention, there should be close to 50/50 reciprocity. I found in the beginning there was and eventually it became 135/1 where I was doing almost all of the work. I have forced this back to 60/40 (so she can't blame me for not doing enough) and I do it based solely on the metric of time as perceived effort cannot be quantified. My wife perceived this as abusive, and when I stated I was about to start this, she attempted suicide (as a manipulation tactic to prevent it). I wanted things to get better, as I felt defeated, much like you are expressing now, I made decisions to take back my life, and stop being a martyr for my wife's insatiable demands (where she was 'unsatisfiable'), but rather to become a reasonable partner with reasonable expectations. Slowly implemented boundaries, that by most would be considered fair and reasonable.


Anyway, that’s where I’m at right now and feeling very weak. My strongest card is that I absolutely will not agree to sell until we have found a house we both love in the perfect area, with jobs, good schools and the medical specialists our daughter needs. It will also be on the understanding that we do not wish to disrupt the children’s schooling so we will not be moving away again, if this does happen.

I feel that is fair and reasonable. Is this something that you, ThankfulPerson, wants?  If so, follow your combined dream. If this is something that you are only doing to appease your wife, it will generate contempt and you will become more miserable. Make sure whatever you do, both you and your wife are in agreement.


Thanks again and please don’t feel like I’m not listening, I am hearing very clearly but struggling atm. Cat and not Wendy will remember I felt like this a couple of years ago when my wife was pressuring me to accept a low offer on our home from an investor in order to secure our dream home. We nearly ended up doing it but then my wife changed her mind which I think she will never admit was largely influenced by me. I will NEVER allow things to get that bad again.

Never say never - history has a tendency to repeat itself. I sense you are struggling with this. Am I correct in assuming you are currently in your 'dream home'?  ...and now she wants you to leave to something that seems to be nicer?  Being mindful of past behaviors are a good indicator of future ones, what do you think will happen, even though you have clearly stated your intentions of not moving again  I definitely do not feel as though you are not listening. On the contrary, you are listening, and thinking, and processing what I and others are saying and this is why are you are feeling so conflicted.

It was not my intent to make you feel this way. It was my intent to show you that you were changing your mind to appease your wife. I also want to make sure this is something that you want for you and your family - you wife should not be able to make unilateral decisions, nor should you - both must be in agreement for it to happen, or each should be able to compromise to meet somewhere in the middle. My wife had several extinction bursts when I would no longer let her have her way, unchallenged.


Random question: Cat mentioned about how “healthy” people have a bpd or crazy radar type thing that puts them off pwbpd’s.

CRAY-DAR - Crazy Radar, similar, in name, to GAYDAR where one can easily perceive someone who is on the spectrum of Crazy, just like GAYDAR is where one can easily perceive someone who is on the LGTBQ2+ spectrum. With the help of my individual therapist, I now have working CRAYDAR and can spot 'crazy' a mile away, in some cases literally, but most of the time figuratively.

Others have spoken of the 'tutor' incident, and I am in agreement, and won't repeat it.


I’m feeling a bit more peaceful and powerful for some reason. Because I hold the power to make this decision. I will not be bullied into buying a home if I don’t love it more than this one, as I said along with local area, jobs, schooling, medical care etc. So she can put the house on the market

Please don't waver from your conviction, set this as a boundary for your wife, provided you also want to do this. Be willing to compromise that you both can agree on, but do not appease.


but we still have to ultimately agree and tbh I’m feeling bored of her behaviour more than anything, just when I feel ready to end it all, I know I’m fantasising because I know I’m trying to keep things together for the kids and so that I’m here with them growing up.

Your fantasy, means you are starting to think about it. I too have thought about ending my marriage. I know in my heart of hearts I cannot, I don't have the balls for it (and I am a guy). However, I did come to a wise-mind epiphany that if my wife wanted to end the marriage, I would not fight her on it, and when she announced her separation in front of the couple's therapist, I encouraged her to leave if that is what she wanted; however, I did not capitulate to her demands nor wants where she wanted me to leave, and leave her everything. I stood up to her, and was willing to let it all go, and that shifted my wife's stranglehold of psychological power over me, which was very abusive to me and our children. Now I have the power, and I am trying not to be abusive, even though she has perceived me as being so.


She never would have treated me this badly before the kids because I think and I think she knows I would have left her.

Interesting you should say this, as this is when my wife became really abusive towards me and completely stopped her love bombing. She perceived I would be obligated the moment she found out we were pregnant, and I would not leave her with her behaviors - she was right, and I was abused for the better part of two decades until I figured this out.


Roll on Saturday when she gets to be an elf and I get to be a single mother for the day.

Enjoy the quality time you are going to have. And ask yourself, if you want more of that kind of time. What would you change about it?


Take care with self-care.

Thanks SD, please don’t apologise. You are not responsible for my feelings…

TP,

I would like to rephrase that to that 'I am not responsible for your actions; however, I should be mindful of your feelings' where I  meet you at an appropriate level at where you are at - I made an error in not realizing you were at a more difficult place emotionally, and that is okay.

I know that I am blunt, sometimes too blunt, extremely straight-forward, and to some this can seem abrasive - and being abrasive can hurt - I am aware of this.  I was apologizing for being too abrasive, as I should have used more tact [hindsight is 20/20], and hopefully I did when responding to your post last night.

Some like me telling it 'like it is', as they know exactly where they stand in my opinion(s).  Others do not like this, and I have to adjust my approach to meet them where they are at for each person I respond to.

Also, be mindful, I am not a licensed professional, and I am not degreed in a related field, but I do study books, watch videos, read up on clinical studies, deliberately interact with those that have the disorder so I can learn from them to apply it to my unique set of circumstances, among other activities directly or indirectly related to pwBPD.  I am retired, so I have time to do all of this.

I also love to share what I have learned with others, here on these forums.  What works for me, and what doesn't, and hopefully, others can gain from my experiences and apply it to their own circumstances, just as I have learned from others here, you included, from their and your own personal experiences on what works and what doesn't work with a intimate relationship with a borderline.

It is a process, and each of us are at a different stage in this process, some get stuck and stay stuck, others get unstuck only to get stuck again, others are stuck for a while until they get direction [this is me], and others can see a way almost immediately, and are here only for a few days before they move on [I envy those people], this is my goal - and as I am a natural people pleaser, I am trying to help others reach this realization too.

I hope that makes sense.

As always, take care with self-care.

SD