BPDFamily.com

 how it end the barrage of texts and merry go round???

There’s been an issue off and on for the past week. Summary is my wife wants to go out of town on Saturday, the night before Christmas Eve and stay at a hotel then go blow it out on New Year’s Eve. I agreed to Xmas eve initially but a few days later I was thinking about it and my kids are 17 & 19. I don’t know if they’ll be around next Christmas or new years and really would to be around for the kids, I’m happy to do a family thing at home for the holidays.

I literally said yesterday “what do you think about spending Saturday out together then have a nice dinner but come back that night instead of staying at a hotel so we can wake up at home on Christmas Eve with the kids?”

You’d think I smacked her across the face and told her I didn’t want to spend any time together. Got instant anger and a lot of “why do you do this to me? I’m looking for connection and you keep choosing the kids over me!?”

I explained it was just an idea to go out for the day and evening, have a great time then be home with the kids. I said I’m good with going, I would love to go, it was just an idea.

Now 24 hours of texts and circular talk. Been a lot of texting today, some small examples… would love to know how to close it down and get her to calm down.

You make me crazy when you do this! Then you try to change the plans!

I don’t want to leave the kids on Christmas Eve. That’s absolutely ridiculous to suggest that that’s so hurtful! (I didn’t say that)

I don’t understand why stuff comes out of your mouth. You blurt out things without thinking how it’s going to impact me.

I want to feel the way you used to make me feel. Secure and heard.

It’s Christmas and like you said it’s our kids’ last Christmas at home so hopefully we can fake connection to try and keep Christmas happy.

I miss my old husband. 
Going out with my new husband is not the same. I keep trying to recreate what we had. It’s impossible to do that. You can’t go back

I think it would help to read about the Karpman triangle.

https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

From my experience, the pwBPD takes victim perspective. The expectation is for you to take rescuer role to her, and if you don't, you are the persecutor.

Your situation makes logical sense- spend Christmas with the kids. I think this is a "norm" for families- to spend this time together. New Years is more of a party time for those who like to do that.

With BPD it's emotional thinking from victim perspective. My BPD mother sees people as either "on her side" or "not her side". My father was mostly in the rescuer role to her. This is a relatively stable configuration. For this to happen, there needs to be someone or something in persecutor role- and that could be anyone, including your family members and even your children.

You are aware that to love your children, or your parents, or siblings is different from spousal love. You can love your spouse and your family. With BPD - what your wife sees is that you have chosen the children over her.

She sees you as being responsible for her feelings- either causing her to feel bad or to make her feel better. Actually- we are not responsible for someone else's feelings. Sure, if we do something very hurtful we should apologize, but what your wife feels is not actually what is going on- yet they feel like facts to her.

There is information about validating feelings but not the invalid. It's not true that you are choosing the kids over her. You don't agree with that. However, you could say " I hear you are disappointed about the change in plans for Christmas" but....I would like Christmas to be family time.

Or, you just continuously give in and try to appease her. I don't suggest this as it enables her behavior but to do otherwise requires being able to hold your ground while she reacts.

If this were my BPD mother, Christmas is already ruined. She'd be sulking and raging through the whole thing. Once BPD mother wanted to host an expensive birthday party at a fancy restaurant for my father but this is what she wanted. He didn't want to do that. He was also stressing about the cost. So ( and this is Karpman triangle dynamics that I didn't realize at the time)- we adult kids stepped in to "rescue" Dad and invited people to the house instead. We handled the food. BPD mother raged most of the day and stayed angry through the event.

One suggestion is to talk to the kids and ask them what they want to do. They may not want to deal with the situation. They may even prefer that you take your wife out to a hotel and avoid the tense situation at home. Later, you can take the kids to lunch or something to spend time with them.

Thanks again, @notwendy.

Things are calm again this morning after a turbulent 24 hours. I did give in, actually as soon as I saw she was triggered I apologized for how she was feeling. Tried to explain just what you said - I can love the kids and you, even though I want to spend this day all together does not mean I'm choosing them over you. I even explained how it was just a suggestion and from the onset I told her I wanted to do both but there is a part of me that wants to be with the kids, there's also part that wants to go away with her and since it's so important I let's do that.

So even after trying to be clear it just takes her a day to spin around and around. This was a milder episode. Nothing really changed in what I did to finally calm her down. I just kept on saying the same thing over and over basically. Eventually she got settled down. But I feel just so emotionally wiped whenever this happens. Scared for the next time, will be be in a couple of days, a week or a month (never that lucky)

I poisoned the well in terms of the original plans. She said she still wants to go away but now there are too many negative feelings about the destination so now I need to find somewhere new to go...  Another trip we can't afford.

The more I've learned about this whole thing I'm realizing I have been and am enabling her 100%. The therapist has talked to be about co-dependency and I'm going to reach out to a CODA support group. I do wonder if I always had this in me and the relationship has made it worse or did living with a BPD for 25 years turn me into codependent.

I want to try to get through the holidays without any turmoil, even if for now I'm just continuing to do what I've been doing (giving in). It's my 2024 resolution to start establishing boundaries and working to be consistent. I'm getting ready for somewhere between hell and something that's a lot worse then hell or I think there's a chance she will leave. I am reading books, working with my therapist and will be posting here a lot getting ready for what's next. I won't/can't be in this position a year from now.

I think it's a bit of both- you had co-dependent tendencies when you first married but 25 years of a set pattern can be habitual.

It can also motivate you to know you are the role model for your children. I didn't want to behave like my mother- so my father became my role model. Co-dependency was the example of "normal". I didn't even know there was another way to behave in a relationship. This resulted in issues in relationships for me as an adult- and not just romantic ones but at work and with friends as well.

CODA and ACA have been very helpful to me. I think they will help you and also your children if they are interested in doing that.

Another motivation is that- this behavior works for your wife and as long as you keep enabling it- it is likely to continue. We can not change someone else- only ourselves but when we reinforce behaviors- they continue. If we don't- there's a chance for change- possibly. No guarantees but a chance as least.

My BPD mother has been enabled for decades. She has an inflated sense of entitlement. Careless with money.

I was motivated to set a different example for my kids ( they are adults) and I can see how it's made a difference to them to see me work at this. It will help all your relationships.

The motto is "progress, not perfection". My kids have seen me navigate what is a challenging relationship with my BPD mother. I don't do it perfectly. They know I attend 12 step groups- I want them to know that it is OK to reach out for help - for anyone who may feel the need.

I wonder why your wife doesn't want to spend Christmas weekend together as a family. Even if families aren't religious, it's traditional for families to get together at this time. If you don't celebrate Christmas - if you are another religion- then it's not a tradition for your family.

You can take a weekend vacation whenever. Why this weekend?

I know that the marriage is a priority- but where do the kids fit into the family? It's interesting that your wife doesn't want to spend this weekend with them- unless it's not your family religion or tradition.

Holidays are not something my BPD mother is into either. The first time I experienced a home cooked Thanksgiving was in college when I went home with a room mate to her house for Thanksgiving.  My mother in law cooked holiday meals and I do too. It's the norm for my husband- but not something that I grew up with.

Even if your family isn't from the Christian tradition- around Christmas is a time when most people have time off for work, and families are going to get together. It is interesting to me that your wife isn't wanting to spend the weekend as a family. My BPD mother isn't what one would think of as "maternal"- I could see her doing something like this.

campbembpd,

   Welcome to BPD Family.  We are here to listen and support you.

   I have been with my current uBPDw since 2001 and I too wonder about that same question you posed.  While I know I had codependent traits before I met my pwBPD, I strongly feel that I acquired many traits since I have had those BPD relationships, and the ones I did have, had gotten worse.  I am now reversing most of the traits I had acquired, comparatively easy to do, as they are not childhood wounds; however, the ones that are are deeply ingrained and has made me very vulnerable to having more than one BPD relationship.

   I regularly attend CODA (based on the 12-step model) as well as NAMI groups - each are helpful in their own way.  I find that my issues are minor in comparison to those in the CODA program; whereas, I can relate better with those at NAMI as they are also codependent, but to a lesser extent.

   About 15 months ago, I made the same resolution not to be in the same place, I am not.  Overall things have gotten better for me, but there will be setbacks (lapses) - don't let these discourage you, but instead make you have more resolve to stick to your boundaries.  It will take an enormous amount of determination to do this, it is like a full-time job, with very little progress for the effort being put in.  There are many days that I am overwhelmed by this.

   Be mindful, that you cannot change your wife; however, you can change what you can do.  You can also use persuasive techniques as well, it is a combination of many different things you must learn to do. 

   Perhaps the biggest tip I can share that is not in any of the books is change started to happen when I shifted my focus on trying to fix my wife (a codependent trait), to stopping the irrational behavior, and make the home a better place for my children and me.

   The next biggest tip is to do self-care, as you will need emotional energy and stamina for this.

   Take care, with self-care.

SD

The plan was to leave Dec 23 and come back Dec 24 around noon. When I brought up we'd be gone on Christmas eve she angrily said its the day before Christmas eve! (even though we would still miss 1/2 of Christmas Eve and it seems unlikely she'll want to get up and rush back home. She will expect brunch and drinks)

I've found it hard, especially the last 6 years since we moved out of state to spend a lot of time with my kids. It is like my wife is jealous of me spending time or relationship with them. My pwuBPD wants to be out and about, partying, likes to drink to excess. If she's in the living room she doesn't want to be alone so it's created conflict when I want to go hang with the kids in the other room. One example is my kids and I liked to watch the superhero action movies when they were a few years younger. My wife HATED it! At the time it was so confusing... she would act out and be mean, like she was jealous. She would say condescending things, make sarcastic comments like "you're the hero dad". My daughter and I both got to the point where we wouldn't watch those movies if mom was home or turn them off if mom was coming in. I feel so terrible about that now and what that did to me and my daughter.

Now currently she makes comments like we're done parenting, our kids are grown so when is it her time or when is it our time? She says things like she wants to be 'free'. It feels like as soon as the kids were able to be left on there own that's all she wants to do. She is not happy just sitting at home all the time and since she doesn't have other things to do or other people/friends/social outlets I am it. The other wrinkle is our 20 year old has special needs and will probably live with us for as long as we can, otherwise he would have to live in a group home or somewhere else. She's never really accepted it and it makes me sad because she acts like she has such sadness that he'll be with us and she's grieving a loss of a life she thought she would had maybe...

I get look forward to when she has a girls trip planned (even though she doesn't pay for most of it and it means more debt) or the rare time she goes out for somethin. It's like a weight off me temporarily and I can breathe.  I can just hang with the kids and watch a show with them or by myself and not feel stressed.

Thanks @SaltyDawg for the comments as well. Feels good to know I'm not alone.

My BPD mother doesn't have much of a parenting instinct. We had nannies and sitters- something I resented as a child- because I wanted a mommy to take care of me like I saw my friends' mothers do. Now, I am grateful that I was taken care of by someone competent and loving.

My BPD mother also liked to have fun and at other times, was reclusive. She seemed to resent the relationship my father had with me and she controlled it.

If your son can manage a group home, it may be a good idea- for his own independence and also for him to not be subjected to your wife's negativity about him and parenting in general. If there is one nearby- you can still have frequent contact with him and oversee it.

My father also seemed more relaxed and jovial when he was able to visit alone.

I think the tasks of parenting are what builds a relationship with children. Young children don't have choices- but with adult children, the relationship changes into more of an adult-adult relationship. I didn't really "bond" with my mother as a child in the same way that I felt attached to my father- and I think this reflects each of their capacity to have a relationship. With my mother -it's been more about me being useful to her.

The two of you can take a weekend trip any time, so I find it interesting that your wife chooses Christmas weekend for this- being that it's a traditional time for families to be together.