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Hello everyone. I could just do with some advice on something that is quite small, but realistically may be my last meaningful interaction with my ex.

We lived together for 15 months but it was in my house. She moved in with her daughter when we got back together after a 3 month break in 2022. She sold her house to live with me but never really settled. She came from a difficult upbringing but had built a good life for herself with her daughter and was very independent. Since she moved into mine she quickly became anxious as the house wasn’t ‘hers’. She felt like she’d lost the identity she had built for herself. This led to multiple episodes of disregulation and we often slept in different bedrooms as she struggled to sleep in a bed with me. We talked about getting a house together but had planned this for next year when we were in a better financial position. Because of all of the fights and angry outbursts, I was reticent to commit to buying one together as we barely went a week without some kind of meltdown. It was tough on both of us.

In November she had a particularly difficult episode and ended up packing and leaving in the night. We have barely spoken since, although she did call to collect items in December when she said she was ‘done’. I echoed that I felt the same but we remained on decent terms. We see each other most days in work and are cordial to one another. Sometimes she will text me almost apologetically about practical things. There has been no emotion, except on one occasion when she got upset about something work related when she came to the house to collect belongings. She wouldn’t usually get upset about this so I think it was a combination of being back in the house and her work issue. I gave her a hug and gave her advice on the work issue.

75% of her belongings are still at my house (in a room I’ve closed the door on) but she came to see me at work on Wednesday stating she is moving into her new house on Wednesday next week. She asked if she could come to box her things on Saturday, which obviously I agreed to. She was very polite and ‘grateful that I even spoke to her’. I asked her what she meant by that to which she said ‘I didn’t know whether you’d tell me just to f*ck off’. I just told her ‘I don’t hate you, it’s not a problem’. She also told me her daughter talks about me every day. I told her I missed the little girl, which is probably the most vulnerable I’ve been since the break up.

We never really discussed the real reason why she went, as I just went full no contact since the day after she left (I rang her and asked if she was coming home as she moved in with her Nan). I think I know the reason she went, in that she was so unhappy in the house and we were fighting a lot and losing intimacy as a result. I don’t need to drag up old feelings as I think her actions have told me all I need to know.

I think she still respects me as a person and a partner, which is nice. Up until the last week I have been quite angry about it all (never shown to her), but recently I’ve started romanticising again, so I’m feeling vulnerable. I still have the same feelings for her I always had.

My question is really whether I should stay in and help her pack tomorrow for the move, or if I should go out and avoid her? I’m not asking this with hope of reconciliation in mind, more just what is the best thing for me and my healing. Although I see her often, watching her back in our environment will be tough. However I don’t want to look petty or butt-hurt. She thinks I hate her, which I don’t. I am grateful that she tried to live somewhere she felt uncomfortable and took the risk she did.  She knows she’s hurt me a lot over the years, so she has been quite respectful to me since she upped and left (the actual night of the break up I feel she was a bit unfair). I think in time she has realised this maybe.

The actual sale is going through on Wednesday, so fortunately I’m not home for that so I don’t need to worry about ‘moving day’. I’m just torn on what to do tomorrow. My friends say go out, which feels safer, but the part of me that still loves her almost wants to say goodbye properly. What should I do?

Thank you

I'm sorry to hear things didn't work out. Those losses hurt, especially when kids are involved.  :hug:

It might be important to think through what you would hope to get if you were to stay at the house on Saturday, participate in packing things up, and try for what I'm hearing you call a "proper goodbye".

It's sounding like you hope that through interacting with her during packing/moving, she could give you closure? Is that part of it?

As you reflect back on your relationship, the end of your relationship, and what you know about her (and you), do you think getting a proper goodbye while packing is realistic, unrealistic, other?

Thank you for your reply, I appreciate it, truly.

I think I just really miss her. Incredibly so. All these months have been difficult because despite me not reaching out, she would touch base every 2-3 weeks about something practical. This was my attachment cord to her as I always knew I’d speak to her again as all her stuff was at my house. It’s probably why I found it so easy not reaching out.

This day has always been coming, but I think I’ve realised this week that I always felt close to her because we still had that tie. After Wednesday there is no reason for us to talk outside of work again, so it feels very final. I think I’ve just been kidding myself all these last 12 weeks that she will miss ‘us’ and about turn (like she has every other time). I’ve been so stoic in that ‘I deserve better than this’ until recently, but this week I’ve started to think ‘if only we’d of bought the house together, all would be fine’. It wouldn’t have, she was extremely aggressive at times and would be very cold and unloving. I continued seeing our couples therapist since the split who has told me I’m a victim of domestic abuse, and my partner showed not only borderline traits, but also NPD ones.

I think it would help me to say a proper goodbye, as we haven’t really done that since the break. Neither of us have talked anything through. I think (if I’m being honest) I’m scared that having the talk will draw the line under it for not just me, but her also. She probably already has, as with all her previous partners she paints them black and moved on. For some reason she never did that with me. She still follows and watches my social media posts, even tho I have ‘hidden’ all of hers.

I said in another thread (and to my therapist) this week that I feel like my grief has hit me all at once 12 weeks later. I’d stuffed it down all this time, so now I need to acknowledge and allow it. 

All of us (whether we have a PD or not) can have a tendency to emotionally believe (whether we articulate it or not) that our happiness, closure, contentment, peace, wellbeing... lies in the actions of someone else. I do it -- it's easy when I'm sad, lonely, or hurt to emotionally believe that if my H would: be more validating, calm down, be less upset, really listen, not take it personally, etc, then I'd feel better. "If he would just stop being so reactive, then I'd feel OK".

And -- I can believe that at an emotional (subverbal?) level even though I can articulate that No, my feelings are my responsibility, and my well-being doesn't lie in the hands of another. In fact, I'm sure I've posted "take responsibility for your own emotions" stuff here at the same time that I've wanted my H to solve my emotional problems through doing something.

I wonder if you might be in a similar position?

Maybe you could articulate your rational belief that "of course I'm in charge of my own healing, it's not her job", and at the same time experience a powerful emotional belief that if you could just have one last conversation with her...

IDK -- it's something I was working on in T the other day, so it's at the top of my brain.

...

I guess a few more related thoughts are:

-Others can't give us the sense of closure or finality that we want. That's ours to wrestle with. Especially if she has PD type traits and the relationship has broken up, it seems pretty unlikely to me that now is when she would be able to provide satisfying closure and also be able to rationally talk things out.

-Might be worth considering whether it'd come across as "springing a surprise" on her, if she thinks she's just coming over to get stuff, and she experiences you using that as a doorway to conversation. Could it be worth asking her what she is OK with?

...


Tell me a little more about this:


You're feeling afraid of not "talking things through" with her (afraid of not having closure), and also afraid of "talking things through" with her because it might cement her... dislike of you? perception of you? closing the door on you?

That sounds conflicted to me -- does it to you? Is it your experience that you both want things to be over (satisfying closure) and don't want things to be over (want her to think well of you)? Any of that close?

I think there may be some truth in that, which feels strange to say because I’ve always been happy on my own and in my own company. I think because I will always be exposed to my ex (working in the same organisation for the next 22 years together), I’m just fearful I’ll see someone else succeed where I couldn’t. I don’t for one minute think that means I’m not a good person, nor do I think I’ll be hung up on this for years, but whilst the grief is strong at the minute it’s frustrating to know she will always be in my life. I can’t really get away from her.

No I understand that tomorrow isn’t about closure. That isn’t really what I ever intended, I wouldn’t spring a conversation on her like that. Partly because I don’t REALLY think I need it, nor do I want it. I think I’m just sounding off and entertaining the possibility it could happen. I think there is a part of me that wants her to acknowledge that the way it ended wasn’t great, but I’m not expecting it, nor will I hold it against her if we never talk about the break up again. It just seems sad that something which has been going on for the last 3 1/2 years (well, longer now) has just vanished without a word being spoken. She was always one for running away when things got overwhelming, so it was always a likely ending I guess.

I completely get your last question. My mind has just completely started contradicting itself this week. I don’t know what I want. In my heart and in my gut I know there is no coming back from this. It’s humiliating being picked up and dropped like I have been over the years. I’ve never got back with an ex before, and I’ve never had self esteem issues. I think it’s because I’m a good person and always see the good in people, I thought I could get both through this (hello hero complex). All my previous partners have been healthy, as have the relationship dynamics. When they ended i grieved but understood what had happened. I think because this was such a car crash, and I invested so much love, support, and effort into showing her what a good relationship can be, I am finding it hard to accept that it was all for nothing.

Our couples therapist has told me that I have showed love through kindness and calm, but my partner grew up in chaos. To her, love is chaos, which is why she probably couldn’t feel it when I showed it to her in a healthy way. She often complained I didn’t show love, I did, she just couldn’t see it as this isn’t what she perceives love to be. Her ex’s would beat, abuse, cheat, and fight with her, but then beg, plead and fight for forgiveness. I didn’t really do those things to her, so never had to do the hard yards in ‘winning her back’. This meant no intensity to her in my feeling.

I think I have decided just to be there when she gets here tomorrow, will ask if she needs help, but will make my excuses to leave. That way I’m not being cold, but not making things more difficult than they need to be. In a few days I’ll be able to draw a line and accept it was probably all for the best. I don’t hate her, and I’m grateful she took the risk and tried. We both fought so hard for so many years, that an amicable end is probably the best outcome that we could have hoped for. When I look back on the screaming, self harm, suicidal ideation, and emasculation, to come out of it with only mental scars, it’s probably a win for me. This relationship has really opened my eyes to mental health and impact it can have on people. My life was so sheltered before all this.

But of an update with this. She came and I helped her pack for about 30 minutes. We didn’t really talk about much other than wishing luck to each other. Her dad came about half way through, which was nice as I never got to say goodbye to him. As I left I asked him to look after her, he said it was hard watching her make ‘bad decisions’. Nice to hear but means nothing really.

Luckily my weekend is full for the next 2 days with both my sports teams (rugby and football… or ‘soccer’) in finals this weekend. I’ve got 2 days drinking with my friends to take my mind of it all. Time to draw the line.

Well my ex collected her belongings today. I wasn’t in so I didn’t have to see her. I’m pretty mad at the minute so I just need to vent so I don’t send anything emotional to her.

I did a scoot around the house yesterday and there were loads of items she had left not in boxes. Clothes in the wardrobes, under the bed, household items. Her ‘memory box’ with all the cards and keepsakes I gave her. Lots of documents for her finances I assumed she needed. I  packed it all up and left it at the front door ready to go, whether to be thrown away or taken to her new house.

I’ve come home tonight and she’s taken everything she obviously planned to, but the stuff I set aside, along with her daughters slide in my garden, a huge dolls house, her dressing table and chair, are all still here. She had said the dolls house was going to the tip, so I assume the clothes and dressing table are destined for that too. Now I’m going to have to pay to get all this stuff removed. It’s all way too big to go into my car, so I’m left with a house full of crap. She’s told me there is no room for all of her stuff that’s in the garage, so I’ve got bikes, her daughters baby stuff, and god knows what else in there.

The memory box I can understand why she’s left. She told me she deleted all our photos and messages straight away, so she is anything but sentimental. Still stings but I think it’s cruel that she’s making me throw all that away. I was under no illusion that she would treasure it forever, but at least have the decency to take it away and throw it in the trash. In a way this all makes it easier as I’ve been ruminating a lot recently and this just shows she’s a million miles from that. I need to go full NC.

This girl has upped and left, returned, and sobbed so many times. After doing so well for the first 2.5 months, why am I so cut up now? She wasn’t good for me at any point in this relationship, but I am holding onto someone who picks me up and drops me like toy. She verbally, physically, and emotionally abused me throughout, made me feel inadequate and consistently told me I didn’t care (I ran myself into the ground trying to look after her). Sorry, I feel awful.

Smart of you to post here instead of engaging with your ex.

So she was "supposed to" get everything that was hers, and instead left a bunch, with no information about whether she'd be back or not, or what she wanted or didn't want you to do with it, etc?

To me, that sounds like setting up a "lose lose" scenario. If you deal with it, then you're stuck with either keeping/storing it (you lose by having to have it) or paying to dump it (you lose financially) -- and if you dump it, she might then call you up in 6 months and say "I never said you could throw out my things -- how could you, I'm going to sue" (or whatever escalation).

The nice thing is you can get out of it and you don't need her cooperation or agreement to do so.

One option is: itemize what's left (tedious but important). Email, text, and/or registered mail it to her with an enclosed message, something like:

"Hi Ms. Ex-PhoenixKnight;

Enclosed please find a list of your belongings that remain at 123 Main Street after you stopped by yesterday (27 Feb 2024) to get your things. Please let me know in writing by 15 Mar 2024 if you dispute that listing. If I don't hear back from you by 15 Mar 2024 I'll assume that you agree with me that everything on that list is yours and nothing was omitted.

I plan to take those items to [the dump, the thrift store, etc] by 22 Mar 2024 unless I hear back from you in writing by 15 Mar 2024 that you will pick them up from me on or before 22 Mar 2024.

Thank you and have a good Wednesday;

Mr. PhoenixKnight"

...

Sorry it's coming down to that. I can see how the way yesterday went would really hurt -- like she "isn't taking responsibility" for her memory book and it's one more thing on you. Not how you wanted it to go.

On Saturday after she finished packing she left a voice note stating that she had packed her stuff, it would be collected on Wednesday, and she would post the key through the letter box. She also said she had no where to put the stuff in the garage so said she’d need to collect that another time. I didn’t respond to the voice note as I was out, and a little bit disappointed she just expected me to store the stuff in the garage indefinitely (if there’s no room for it in the new house now, there likely never will be if she has no outside storage).

Things like her dresser, boxes of shoes (they’ve been under the bed unworn since the day she moved it), her older clothes she chose not the pack, we never spoke about. I think I just assumed that she would have at least taken them to get rid of them herself if they were for the tip. At a push she could have said ‘the stuff I have left, I do not want, please can you get rid of it?’

It’s so frustrating as I’m still tied to her with the stuff in the garage. I think the rest I can just toss out, but I’d feel guilty about throwing the bikes and baby things. She hasn’t posted my key so maybe she just had a lot on today and will collect it herself over the coming days. I think I’m just frustrated because if I were moving out from someone’s house that I’d left, I’d be sure to make it as easy as I could for them.

Yeah, it is frustrating when it feels like others dump their responsibilities on us, especially when we feel we wouldn't do that to someone else, like it's common sense/common courtesy. Hard to wrap our minds around that very different approach of "take some, leave some, come back sometime or maybe not, and it's your problem either way".

Sometimes we have to pay more, whether with actual money, physical energy, mental energy, etc, to move past the end of a BPD relationship. Not fair -- but our well-being can be worth it.

Couple other options include:

Putting everything left in a storage unit, paying for X months of it, and mailing her the key to the storage unit with a note saying "it's paid thru April 30th and here's the key".

If you both have a mutual friend, you can see if the friend is willing to store her stuff and serve as her point of contact. That would at least solve the issue of you having to look at the stuff and you not knowing if/when she'll be in touch with you again. Really depends on the friend, though! I'd send a similar note: "Chris is now storing your stuff and there is nothing left at my place. Please contact Chris at 123-456-7890 for all further questions/issues."

Of course, before either of those, you could communicate to her that if you don't hear back from or see her by Day/Date about her things, you'll move forward with moving them out of your house. That could give you relief from the "ask and wait" approach ("Hey, can you let me know if you'll get your stuff this week?") which leaves you dependent on her responding and not stonewalling/foot-dragging.

...

I get wanting not to be tied to her any further. While it won't be fair or low-hassle, I'm confident you can figure out a way forward that honors you and your desire to cut those connections via her things.

Taking her things to her family may be a good shout actually. I will leave it a couple of days as she is likely to be very busy (as will her family) in setting her up in her new surroundings. I have lasted 3 months so another couple of days won't hurt. The fact that she hasn't posted my key does suggest she may be considering doing this herself.

I think I had just built today up as being the day I draw a final line so I am disappointed I am still emotionally involved. I don't want to be a d!ck about all this, she said to me on Friday 'her life is a mess', whilst I am able 'just to go on as normal'. I'm not, as I'm sat living in a house full of memories. At least she gets a completely fresh start. I recognise living in her grandmothers 2 bed house for 3 months along with her 6 year old will have been tough on her. She is free to decide if being in the relationship suits her or not, so whilst I can not like it, and maybe feel a little hurt, BPD or not she has her own dreams and aspirations in life. I need to take that on board and not take this personally.

Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me. I really do appreciate it. I have a week off work next week so I won't need to fret about seeing her for a while. I'm considering going for a week away to reconfigure. The other option is to redecorate her daughters room, maybe make it something for me. Either way, I'll get through this. The hard part is done now (until I find out about a replacement at least!).   

It's possible you won't need to pay someone to pick the items up. There are charities and shelters that would be happy to have the items she left behind. Some are even able to pick them up. Domestic violence shelters need women and children items. Some charities have second hand stores as a funding source.

One usually needs to schedule pick ups. One idea is to schedule it and then contact her and say "I have scheduled __________charity to come pick up any items left behind on date/time. If you wish to get them, please pick them up before this date"

Thanks for the advice again. I was thinking of sending the following message, which would be my first ‘reach out’ in the 3 months. She had said numerous times over the last few months that she was the only one taking the risk by her selling her house, which is hard to dispute. With this in mind I effectively paid her £3k to help her afford a better house for her and her daughter. I didn’t want any reason for her to badmouth me at work and didn’t want to see them struggle. I did pay all the bills whilst she lived with me, which she seemed to have forgotten.

I’m trying to look at things from her side in that she did take a huge risk and upheaved her life to try with me. It didn’t work, and it became a toxic living situation for her in which she felt overwhelmed. Whilst we did have a plan to move it wasn’t something she could do anymore. Maybe there was some arrogance on my part in that I believed she should have been more grateful for what I offered (free living in a large house in the best area in town). I think her identity of being a home owner was more important than how nice the house is. That is fair. I am tied into my mortgage until July 24 so I couldn’t have moved even if I was desperate to (it would have cost me £25k plus an awful mortgage rate, my current is 1.2%, getting one when we looked was 7.8%). I believed sticking it out until the summer was the only real option.

Message;

Hello,

I hope you have settled well. I’m a bit confused with regard to the items which have been left at the house. My assumption is that you don’t want them (slide, dressing table, clothes, shoes, doll house), but didn’t want to just throw them as to leave myself open. It’s a little disappointing that these have all just been left without an explanation, but I am trying to look at things from your side in that you are dealing with a lot.

Please can you let me know what the plan is with your belongings in the house and garage. I will give you a couple of weeks to decide about collection and will dispose of anything still here on Saturday 16th.

If you can either post my key or leave it in the post room at work, I will do the same with any letters which come through. Thanks

Always helpful to post drafts here and get feedback! Glad we can be here for you.

My thoughts about sending messages to pwBPD are: focus on your goals/outcomes, less is more, decrease targets, accept her limitations.

It's so important to be clear in your own mind about what your goal is in sending a communication. Do you want her to: feel bad for what she did? See things your way? Get stuff out of your home in a timely manner? Other? Sometimes we can have tacit or unspoken goals, related to wanting the pwBPD to see something our way, accept something, be reflective about her behavior, etc. Airing those to ourselves and critically examining if those are realistic goals is important. If your #1 goals is getting the stuff out of your home in a timely manner, other goals may need to be dropped.

The second two thoughts kind of go together. More words can  = more targets for her to focus on, to the detriment of you achieving your goals. More words, especially more emotional words, can sometimes come across as a big neon sign saying "this way to more conflict!"

Finally, if she has BPD (whether traits/behaviors or a diagnosis), then she has a serious mental illness that impairs communication and normal emotional functioning. It's likely that if in the relationship, the two of you couldn't work things out by 'calmly talking it through", then now -- after a breakup -- isn't when she's suddenly going to be able to. It can be important to accept that BPD impairs her much of the time, and it will impair her even during what "should be" normal logistical stuff.

...

So, drilling down to your draft, some ideas based on the "Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm" communication tool (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=134124.0):


A friendly greeting like you wrote ("hello, I hope you have settled well") makes sense.

I'd strike out the above sentences as to me, they read as big emotional neon signs pointing towards a door labeled "more conflict". Think of it like this: you write "my assumption is..." which is an invitation for her to say "well you assumed wrong, just like you always did to me". If you write "It's a little disappointing...", it's an invitation for her to say "it's all about you, isn't it? Why can't you be a decent human being thinking of me for once?" If you write "I'm trying to look at things from your side", it's hope on your part that she will understand that you're trying to be understanding. Again, if BPD is in the mix, and she was impaired in seeing things your way during the relationship, then now -- post breakup -- is not the time when she will suddenly be able to say "Wow, thank you PhoenixKnight for understanding that I am dealing with a lot". And none of them further the goal of having things out of your home in a timely fashion.

I'd also tighten up timelines and deadlines, phrasing much more as "if I don't hear from you about X by Day/Date, I'll go ahead and do Y".

That was good that you included that Saturday the 16th deadline. Wondering if you can include more, especially about the key dropoff. I mean -- what would you do if she never responded about the key plan, and never dropped it off? It'd leave you chasing her to fix it. Consider coming up with a plan about key exchange that minimizes how much you have to "ask and wait" with her. Not sure if it means changing the locks on your home -- it might. That part is tricky.

So, some ideas for tweaks could be:


What do you think?

PhoenixKnight,
Thank you for posting. It reminds me I have to act. I left during a move, and a lot of my stuff got left behind. I have not coordinated getting my stuff from the new apartment, because it hurts and I don't have a place, but you remind me that someone I still love is sitting surrounded with stuff we accumulated together.

Yea everything you said is completely true Kells. Scarily so. I didn’t send it today as it never felt right. I’m stuck between being annoyed about it (as I do think it’s cold) and thinking it isn’t worth the hassle of falling out.a short 2 liner is probably much better. It’s been a tough week so I’m overthinking it as I’ve been holding onto (3 months) of NC.

You’re right in thinking maybe I want her to feel a little guilty. She hasn’t shown any emotion at any point since the break up, nor has given me a reason why. I’m no better in the sense that I didn’t ‘fight’ for it to be saved, nor could I muster up the energy to actually ask her why she left. I think I felt sorry for myself and, honestly, didn’t have the mental capacity. The last few months were awful, with rages, depression, isolation, and no interest from her. I initially had 2 months of relief. Maybe I just wanted her to at least acknowledge something in all of this.

The bit about her not communicating in the relationship, so why would she now, really hit home. Unless it was about her needs or pain, there was little regard for me. In truth this was something I thought about often in the relationship, and was pushing me to want to leave. I should really be seeing this as a blessing as it is a reminder that we are very different.

Thanks for commenting Rayn. If that is a situation you and your ex partner are in I think it would be good of you to free them of the belongings. Subconsciously they are a tie and a constant reminder of a life that’s gone. I need to be honest and say I think I clung to them as being a reason why things would work out.