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Hello all  :hi: ! Life has been hectic with work and another move on the horizon (not as stressful as the previous one, thankfully!). I wanted to make a new topic in the spirit of a different way of seeing my relationship with my ex with BPD. I want to wrap my head around the situation, and also keep myself grounded in reality, which has proven so important.

After his own breakup, he was in great distress, he reached out to me, and I felt confused. I cared for him, and I started seeing him through a different lense. I found myself in a position where I felt helpful; a lot of his reflections and areas where he was trying to grow were areas I myself had difficulties with when I started writing on these boards about two years ago now. I realized that his actions throughout the years were not based on unresolved feelings for me; he wanted the unconditional comfort that I offered. I also realized that I had been acting out of anxiety and compulsion. An all-around unhealthy dynamic. It made him as a person seem less special in a sense. Now that I have a better grasp of that with the help of therapy, I have been giving him space and, lo and behold, he reaches out more often out of his own accord. I feel like one of the positives of this relationship, this friendship, is that I feel good when I see someone I care about trying and learning and growing. It`s like healing that part of me in the sense of coming full circle.

I keep myself down to earth by reminding myself that he is close to me now, but will most likely drift away when he feels better and or has a new love interest. He expressed recently that he`s `here to stay` this time, due to the aforementioned changes in our dynamic, but time will tell. I find myself gently calling him out in order to assert my boundaries, and he`s been responding well. For example, I told him that it was misplaced for him to have asked about my sexual life while he was in a relationship (a point I wrote about here before, and the confusion it had caused me), that it would be important for him in general to think about how what he says might make me feel.

It feels lately like we are in different realms when it comes to some emotional capacities. I recognize that I have a lot to learn still, but isn`t it weird to be in an almost motherly position of support?

I've tried this too with mixed results. Sometimes it feels like a manageable situation for a while. There's not even any expectation or commitment on your part - how could you possibly be hurt, right?

What I've found is that the BPD can find wild new ways to hurt you, even when you THINK there are no feelings involved. 

Like they will invent a whole new kind of "breakup" just to hurt you. We're not even "together" so how can we break up? "Well I'm going to un-friend you because you're being too motherly". Stuff like that.

But I'm not opposed to you trying to make it work. I totally get it. And I'm hoping it works for you. Just keep looking out for yourself.

I appreciate your reply, ThanksForPlaying, this is exactly the type of reality check I am in need of. I will continue down the road of detachment, with the help of therapy, and keep in mind the simple fact that his motivations have consistenly been to seek out the most readily available sources of comfort for years.

Agree with this; divorcing/separating from them puts a more literal boundary up they need to contend with, but chances are they'll find new ways to try to test it, especially if or when there's no one else around to fill their needs/demands & occupy their time. 

The disordered emotional response issue is STILL there; they just realized by expressing it in a certain way resulted in losing you completely. 

Thanks for your reply, PeteWitsend! I know that, inevitably, someone else will fill his needs, and he will withdraw. This knowledge has had the effect of me becoming more guarded myself. I expect even less of him, and when he does say objectively kind things I don`t buy into them. I don`t know if this reflects on me losing some of myself. I guess years of him demonstrating that he will drop me has had deeper effects on me than I realized. I don`t think it`s worth bringing this up to him; these are boundaries and feelings that I can navigate on my part.

I`m still just responding when he reaches out for support. It reminds me of the way I would offer support to a fellow member of this forum.

It's not just that he will withdraw, but he might still be seeking a relationship with you according to his terms and wants and needs (hence the inappropriate question about your romantic life), and so might might get nasty when he realizes that you are not interested in that, regardless of how he goes about it. 

I just think that no matter how they present themselves in the moment, or what sort of vibe they give off in the moment, it could all come crashing to pieces in the next.

I recall countless times BPDxw was cordial and came off as pleasant in once instance, only to be angry and demanding a week later, as though nothing had changed, or vice versa. 

I would say it feels more common when dealing with someone disordered. For lack of a better way of putting it feels like you are dealing with someone where the lights are on but no one is home.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

That is a good way of putting it! It becomes clearer to me daily how one-sided a lot of our interactions are. Paradoxically, as I see the reality of who he is and move towards wanting better for myself, he seems to be more appreciative of my support and presence in his life. I`m proud of him for working hard on himself, facing his fears and trying new things. Yet there is, and I suspect there always will be, something missing.


Here is an example of something that recently made me feel weird (I use the term weird because I don`t really know how I felt). He has been sending me funny memes and videos. He said he does this because he feels comfortable with me. Yet some of these videos are not my sense of humour at all. In fact, some of them are in my opinion juvenile, and although it isn`t blatant, they criticize women and women`s sexuality. I feel strongly about the societal pressure put on women to fit into the mold of what men feel comfortable with.  One video made fun of a stereotype of blonde women who (according to the video) only have the goal of attracting attention from men. Why isn`t there an equivalent video making fun of the men? Why isn`t okay for women to enjoy their beauty?

I realize I might be reading into these meaningless videos a lot. Yet I can`t tell whether it`s my place to gently explain a different perspective about the messages behind these videos to him, or if it`s a lost cause. That it`s important not to feed into the narrative of women being put against each other, that every person is different. All I know is I don`t want to pretend to find them funny when they frustrate me. 

Tina my dear, this is where I will chime in with my usual...wear a raincoat and let the BS :cursing: roll off of you. Don't respond. There is a hidden element to it...your boundaries are being tested in a sense. Give it no power....remember I always trumpet being firm and indifferent right? This is one of those times where being indifferent is necessary. You know how you feel so remain steadfast in that and don't respond to the BS  :cursing:. By reacting emotionally you give it power and it shows him externally he got to you and you are still the same as you have always been. Trust me it is indirectly a psychologically game. You are a smart cookie so pay it no mind and go about your business.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Hi Tina,

I agree with Sinister that this is a situation where you're being tested a little bit - to see where your reaction will be.

I tend to think it's pretty futile to try and get someone else to see a new way they should be doing or thinking about things.

All you can do is control your own reaction and proximity to things like that, and if he tends to send you videos that are juvenile and demeaning to women, then you have a number of choices. One is that you can tell him you'd prefer he doesn't send any more videos, a second is that you could just completely ignore any videos that you find distasteful and let your silence do the talking, or a third is that you just don't look at any videos that he sends at all so you don't even know what he's sending and therefore keep your peace.

I'd be going for options number 2 or 3 in an ideal world, because I think option one adds some fuel to the fire he's trying to light.

I'm so glad to hear you saying you feel like you're making more and more strides to thinking about and figuring out what you need. It makes sense that as you become stronger in your own needs and wants, he would come towards you more as a result. But the paradox is that he is attracted to this strength of mind only because strong-minded people can take care of his needs on a level that he deeply craves... but that caretaker dynamic will ultimately drain you and you may lose all the growth and ground that you've gained. I really hope that the path you've chosen at present in terms of honouring your own needs is something that continues no matter what happens from here...

is it possible that some of the glow is rubbing off? that, i dare say, youre wondering if he isnt so great?

think about it. memes and videos? him feeling comfortable with you? him initiating contact? youd have killed for that, right?

its okay for this to be a difference, or even a distance between you.

some of that may be because your own perspective is shifting. some of that may be because you arent the same two people you were at the time. some of it may have always been there, and overlooked.

so you find his sense of humor lacking, or even offensive. youre surprised he would expect you to find it funny.

you get to decide what to do with that information. you can respond, or not. you can let it affect the relationship, or not. you can let it affect how you see him, or not.  

what would you normally do, with him? what would you normally do, with anyone else?

When I was much younger - i.e. teenager through early 20's - I may have shared inappropriate emails or jokes with girls my age.  It was an immaturity thing on my part, and also a lack of experience dealing with women.  I'd hear other guys say and do things, and brag about things, and try to emulate them.  Or I was just being stupid.
 Thinking back on some of the things I did and said makes me cringe, even all these years later!

If someone would've said to me "Please don't share things like that with me" or "I find that offensive, please don't email me again" I probably would've apologized.  Even if I tried to play it cool, I can guarantee I would've felt a sense of shame for what I did, and been embarrassed. 

I don't know how old the two of you are now, but I assume old enough for him to know better. 

How do you think he'd react if you told him how you felt about what he's sharing?  Would he apologize?  Would he try to claim your response was the problem?

I do agree with SC's comment, that he's likely testing your boundaries in another way.

You know what you want here (or what you don't want).  He's testing a boundary to feel you out, and it's significant to note that it may be considered a sexual boundary, given the content he's sharing. And so it's up to you to establish whether you're going to allow him to keep sending you stuff like this, and what you will to do if he won't stop. 

You might as well assume that this will be the nature of your relationship going forward; he's a user and knows what he wants and will keep trying to get it.  You are not, but are struggling to recognize his behavior for what he is, and want to believe something else. 

Thank you for your replies  :). I was having such a busy time at work, and now that things have finally calmed down I can reflect again (and clean!). This is a long reply because all of your messages have me thinking   :wee:.


I didn`t even consider this perspective, which is why your input is always welcome SC!

The conversation ended up going like this:
- Me: maybe they are just enjoying their beauty and like being around boats!
- Him: you are too kind, they are definitely not like that
- Me: How do you know what they are like?
- Him: What people have told me and...it`s just known
- Me: I see! Well it would be interesting, while you are learning and growing yourself, to expand and explore topics like societal pressures. It doesn`t have to be today, but it`s something to think about.
- Him: I just want to relax today  lol
- Me: That`s perfectly understandable! Just keep in mind that sometimes there are unfair messages behind seemingly meaningless videos and it`s important not to perpetuate them

Since then, he hasn`t sent me any more of these types of videos  lol. I noticed that I felt incredibly so so uncomfortable after this conversation because I`m used to being more passive. I doubted that I should have said anything, I thought I was overreacting.
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seekingtheway, I wouldn`t want to compromise my growth and peace of mind for him, that`s for sure. At the moment, I`m ambivalent towards him at best. I`ve been keeping him at arm`s length, and that continues (or is even more pronounced) as he warms up to me. I`m happy for him and the strides that he`s been making, I can tell that he is working very hard to better himself, and I recognize that he was in a very difficult place. But why would I want to be with someone who tests me in this weird way? With someone who was willing to rid himself of me at the drop of the hat? Who won`t ever have the emotional capacity to recognize what I truly offer, beyond support, as a person and a friend? Why was he so aloof towards me for so long?
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I think that...yes. Something has changed, onceremoved, and it is coming from me, and I don`t understand it entirely. For a long time, I looked up to him. He was (and is) so smart, and funny, and charismatic. Yet, I think when it comes to emotional intelligence, there is a lot lacking. Also, I don`t feel like I can trust him. I am getting closer to having a solid idea of what I want from a partner, and there is a mismatch between what I want and where he currently is at in his life.

Normally, and by normally I mean years ago, I`d have really overthought the whole situation. I would have seen the video, thought `is this actually funny? does this mean that I shouldn`t be like these girls? what kind of girl should I be? what kind of girl would he like?`. Then I would be extra careful and monitor how I came off so that he thought that I was `cool`. Oh dear, I am happy not to be like that presently and I send love to my past self :hug:. I think that I will continue saying something in these moments, and by something I mean asking questions to open up a dialogue. I am not very good at navigating these situations in general, but I`d like to become more solid in myself in general and so this is a good opportunity to practice.
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PeteWitsend, we are both in our late 20s. We met when we were 18. I am indeed struggling to recognize his behaviour for what it is. I have difficulty doing that in general. I feel unsettled and disrupted when I realize that things aren`t what they seem, or that people have ulterior motives. I am very offput by the idea of him testing a sexual boundary. It is clear to me that we see dating very differently. He is into all the dating apps. I can understand why people like dating apps. However, I think that looking for a relationship that way is the opposite of how I want to look for a relationship. It`s like having a slot open for `girlfriend` or `boyfriend` and trying and trying to fill it with anyone who comes your way. For me, I want to live my life fully, and if I build a genuine connection with someone along the way, I will build them into my life because I like them. They are special, they are not filling a role for me.

On another note, my father called me the other day. Ever since I moved, he has been ignoring my text messages and calls. Now, he called and said that he doesn`t have any money but that he loves me and that he is working very hard. I immediately called my mother because it broke my heart to imagine my father with no money in his bank account, and I wanted to know if I should be worried. She said that he is making up stories and not to worry because he does have a lot of savings. He has always told stories in which he played the victim, but it`s just weird to me to see it being played out like this. I love him very much, but I don`t understand him. And so I am having a lot of reflection on my father`s role in my worldview these days. All that to say, maybe my ex is a lot more like my father. Before, that didn`t bother me; it made me feel comfortable, like his approval meant everything. Now, I echo my mother in thinking no way, I want better.

You sound so strong and focused in this post, it was really lovely to read.

Made me reflect on a few things.


This is the absolute crux of the matter in terms of deciding any type of future with this man. It all comes down to this. Asking yourself these questions again and again will lead you to a place where you have all the answers you need about him. And it's something I feel about my ex too - I don't think he truly got to know or fall in love with me, the funny, quirky, interesting parts of me – because his focus was on what I could do for him or give to him. He couldn't see beyond that. And although my confidence has been really rocked, I do think there's a lot to love about me - and I have a feeling it's the same with you. And all those wonderful parts of you are wasted on him, but could be celebrated and nourished in someone else more worthy of your attention.

Even though I said in my reply that I thought the best thing was to ignore him, I was really glad to read this because that's the approach you thought was best, and you did it... and it sounded like it did the trick and he's stopped. It made me think about why I suggested to leave it be. I have never been one to stay quiet generally... in fact, it's like I used to have some sort of compulsion to speak out when I felt someone had clearly stepped over a line... I couldn't keep it in! But in the last little while I've learned that sometimes it's better to stay quiet than to react... depending on the audience... when it's cluster B for example... it wasn't safe to speak out... bad things happened when I spoke out. This is not healthy... to be afraid of someone's response, but I do think it is teaching me how to have some restraint and balance in my approach as a whole. Sometimes I do not need to speak, and I can protect my peace a bit more that way. Whereas for you it's the other way around, you are learning you want to speak out more to adjust your natural approach... it's this uncomfortable stretching into places you don't normally hang out that can bring surprising learnings and benefits. And I definitely think there should be room for your voice.

Also, it sounds like an interesting realisation around your father - there's a lot of juice in that stuff. I've been going there with my psychologist too - lots to unpack!!

Thank you for your thoughtful response, seekingtheway. Reading your perspective and reflections is very enriching to me.

It sounds like I may be in a situation soon here I will see my ex in person after several years. Again, in the past, I would have given anything for this to happen, yet now I feel wary and cautious (and a part of me is also excited, admittedly). It feels like life is throwing this situation at me, just as I gain some ground, as a test of sorts. Granted, I welcomed it to an extent lol.

I want to remain down to earth. I don`t want to forget all that I`ve been through. He`s being nice enough now, but for a very long time I suffered. Time and time again, he put a relationship with me at risk by blocking me, disregarding my feelings, favouring other people over me...because he could. I let him. Someone who truly loved and cared for me wouldn`t do that. Someone who truly loved and cared for me wouldn`t have had a long term relationship and completely pushed me aside. I wouldn`t have done that to him. I cared about him a lot, and it`s his loss that he didn`t recognize that. All his actions indicate that he would do all of this again, he would replace me in the blink of an eye, because I don`t mean the same thing to him. And that`s okay. I`ve come a long way in realizing that how I feel when I love someone is special, and that the other person doesn`t owe me reciprocal feelings in return. Part of that journey was also realizing that I need to take care of myself first and foremost, and guard my heart when it comes to people who might take advantage of it.

And so, if and when I do see him, I want to be myself. I want to be kind and supportive, encouraging of all of his genuine efforts to grow as a person. I want to help him reflect further, and voice my point of view if I feel like he may benefit from a push in a different directon, just as my close friends have done with me so many times. I want to have fun, because this is a person who means a lot to me and I want to be present and appreciate the time that I have with him. I also want to have solid boundaries. I want to be clear if I need space, I want to be clear that I don`t want to engage in anything physical and that I am meeting him as a friend (because it will confuse me and I am just now gaining enough ground to say I don`t feel the same way about him as I once did), and I want to recognize when I feel like I want to change the subject, either because I am not ready to talk about certain topics with him or because I don`t see the benefit in revisiting something that I already have closure on. I don`t want to walk around eggshells with him, I want to be confident in my hard earned abilities to emotionally regulate if and when a situation comes up where I feel uncomfortable. I want to let him go when I say goodbye, and wish him even more growth on his journey, and for him to meet someone who compliments him and who he wouldn`t risk letting go of, just as I want to find someone who fits into my life and who I can dote over in the ways that I do. That`s a dream that I`ll hold on to; I want to be emotionally available for that person when they come along. I feel like it`s time to put an end to this chapter.

That's all very admirable, but sometimes with a pwBPD, being "emotionally available" is not possible because of their need to push boundaries b/c of their abandonment issues, anxiety, and self-esteem issues. 

I've had this discussion here about how borderlines are almost perfectly designed to take advantage of those of us who are patient and kind and give them the benefit of the doubt when they start to show us who they really are.  We give them a chance, and

Also, you handled the issue with him sharing inappropriate videos really well.  You put the focus back on his motivation and beliefs and forced him to explain these himself, which of course, he couldn't really do. 

meant to say "We give them a chance, and they try to immediately force us back into the dysfunctional relationship we had with them, because for them, we met their very selfish needs, and we remember as a painful & exhausting experience." 

I think you can be polite to them, but by making yourself emotionally available, you'll only find that they very quickly try to draw you back in deeper than you're comfortable with.

PeteWitsend, your words ring true for me.

He did come to visit me, and I was actually looking forward to it. Things have been messy, to say the least. Ups and downs (well mostly downs) all to be expected but hard in ways I hadn’t foreseen. He came on very strong at the beginning, wanting to cuddle and be close to me. I had my boundaries in place. He was very insistent and persuasive. I gave in. The next day, again,  I told him that I felt confused. He said that he is absolutely not interested in a romantic relationship with me. He said that our past was too messy. Even if initially I had this boundary and I knew that he is not good for me. Even if there is love, it is certain that communication, trust, and respect are greatly missing. So now I'm feeling low and rejected, even if I didn’t want to be with him in the first place!

I process this, then feel like I can make the most of this, have fun with him, and then move on when he leaves. But it’s like he keeps adding and controlling the situation. I get happy and excited with my letting go philosophy. He starts being cuddly and soft with me again, but insists that he doesn’t want to be “too romantic”. .

He talks like it all makes sense and that I can`t communicate but he`s changing the rules in this game as he likes and it`s driving me crazy. I`m mad at myself for this. There is no just having fun and enjoying the moment with him, he has to add mind games.
 
I’m sorry if this doesn’t make sense, I just want to get it out and remember how crazy I felt after seeing him. I can’t wait for him to leave, and good riddance! I was listening to him talk and thinking “man, I give up on this!”. It’s over for me, I have a hard case of the ick as people say these days. All of his actions are rooted in self serving purposes, he’s shown me that time and time again.

I just need to get through this. He’s still here for a few days, and I put myself in a situation where I can’t really leave (wouldn’t recommend). Any tips on how to get through?

Hi Tina, it sounds like a very tricky time - is he staying with you in your home?

There's a bit to unpack there in terms of what he's trying to orchestrate, especially if you've tried to communicate boundaries that he's determined to trample over...  it's all kinds of messy... of course it's confusing if he's saying there's absolutely no chance of a relationship, yet he wants to still be close and cuddly with you. It seems clear he is trying to manipulate the situation to get his needs met - but then, that's how someone with BPD is going to act - they almost can't help it. So it kind of needs to be expected.

In terms of how to get through the next few days. All I can suggest is writing down these feelings as they're coming to you - because you do actually sound very clear about how this is making you feel. After all of this time of hoping you'd get chance to spend this time with him, now it's here and it doesn't feel good. It feels wrong. So use this time as an opportunity to solidify exactly how you feel - what it is you don't like about his actions, what feels wrong and why this is NOT want you want. This is actually a powerful time where your body and mind are aligning and telling you in no uncertain terms that this isn't a beneficial situation for you.

If you feel strong enough, sticking to your boundaries for the final part of the trip might help you to have less of an ick feeling afterwards, but regardless, I'd see this as an opportunity to just get very clear on what you want in terms of contact in the future.

Thanks for your reply, seekingtheway. I am so greatly to have this space, and your support is appreciated from the bottom of my heart. Yes, he`s staying with me. I think he wanted a change of scenery, and I conveniently live in a city not too far from him. I`ve been planning hikes, and we`ve been cooking together.

You are spot on. I didn`t realize until now how used being used to meet someone`s needs can be. This is because, as someone with anxiety, I feel particularly unwell as his needs change from day to day, from hour to hour, and I inevitably feel like I`ve done something wrong when he wants closeness in the morning and then pulls away later. It`s particularly insidious because he does communicate well. I feel like I am being manipulated, but I can`t quite put my finger on it. He seems approachable and wants to `be there` for me, yet I didn`t have a problem before he arrived. It`s like he creates a need for himself and then takes it away. Then, I feel low and rejected, not worthy enough of his attentions.


I will continue to do this, this is very solid advice. I am feeling upside down.
- I don`t like that his actions are rooted in self-serving intentions
- It feels wrong because I end up putting myself down, ruminating (as I am doing right now)
- This is not what I want because there is no reason for me to be putting myself through this other than the fact that we met by chance 8 years ago

I find myself asking questions like `might he change his mind?`, `how can I prove myself to him?` then going in a spiral regarding how I look, what I say, what I can offer, which are all questions that I don`t like myself asking. I keep repeating the conversation where he told me he does not have romantic feelings for me. When I said a version of `too bad for you`, which is what my friends and stronger self have said about the situation, he said something like `I`m okay with that` and that irks me. I was there for him through 2 mental breakdowns, a breakup, difficulties with his parents, loneliness in a new setting. He blocked me and ran away because it was convenient to him.

When I do, and I am determined now, get clear about what I want in terms of contact in the future, and inevitably remove myself from his life, it is objectively his loss, as my support and care are worth more than his wishy washy pseudopsych communications that make me want to throw up.

I can definitely sense strength and clarity in your words - and if you can keep distilling those thoughts, it may help to push you onwards to a point where you will feel alright about the loss of this connection.

You've explored it in every way you can, including as partners and friends and both when he is in and out of a relationship - and he's been unable to give you what you need and deserve in any of those scenarios. But he knows there's still juice he can squeeze out of your connection, so as long as it's been permitted, he'll probably keep trying to keep that juice.

The anxiety you're feeling makes sense to me - it's a very natural response to inconsistent behaviour, where you don't know where you stand, the story keeps changing, you don't know what is likely to happen from one moment to the next. In this case, your body is telling you this is not a safe situation for you emotionally - there's nothing you need to do to ease that anxiety except for exit the situation...


And yes, it is his loss... absolutely... but just a gentle reminder that you are worth more than your care and support - that's not the only thing of value that you have as a friend or partner. You don't need to give anything in order to earn your place in anyone's life.  :hug:

Thank you again, seekingtheway.


Thank you for saying that, as I do not feel strong right now. But I am different now, not the same person that I was years ago. I can bounce back from this faster and stronger.

I am thinking of just telling him when he leaves that he cannot give me what I need or desire and that it`s best for us to part ways. I think that I have myself settled on this - it`s hard - but that`s what I want. I have my ressources in place: this support group, my friends, my new skills.


My body is not letting me sleep or eat either  lol. I need to listen to it.

Hi Tina, just quoting your wishes on the July 2nd. I wish all of these for you still. You have it in you.

You mentioned above recognizing how one-sided the relationship has been, and how he wanted you for emotional support even after
he was out. That's not fair.

You got this – let us know how it goes. Just be aware that he might not take that news lying down. A show of strength and clarity like that is most likely going to spur him to move closer to you. A strong, sure exit often makes someone with a fear of abandonment come running back, desperate to reverse the decision, regardless of whether he wants a relationship or not, he might suddenly start saying he does.

If you feel worried about him doing this and you not being able to hold the boundary strong, it's also okay to give him only half of the story... I usually found my ex would run a mile if I got emotional, cried a bit and told him how much I loved him lol.

Thank you jaded7, and seekingtheway, your continued support and encouragement is much appreciated.

I felt weird around him today, but at some point I had a moment of clarity, with your words resonating in my head: I am happy. I am not losing anything. I am a whole person. I love myself. I don`t need him. I am free to be with someone who is good to me. I am free to be with someone who doesn`t make me sad. I am lucky to have this freedom.

In a twist of events, someone really close to me told me that they had feelings for me. He understands the situation with my ex, and said that he was just telling me how he felt because he wanted to get it off his chest and that he has no expectations and just wants to get to know me more. I find the timing...I don`t have the words to describe it. I feel warmly about this person. I am grateful, because he was recognizing me with his words. For every put down I had with my ex, this other person saw goodness in me and it helped me put into perspective that I want to be around people who appreciate me.

What an interesting development! The Universe is potentially slipping in there with a bit of a road sign, I think?! Even if you don't return feelings to this particular person, there will be plenty of people out there ready and willing to create a healthy, reciprocal relationship with you where you are seen and appreciated for you.

I was talking to someone about what happened with my ex recently and they asked me what it was that I wanted... and my instant reply was 'I just want peace'. And this feels so true to me - it's the way I prefer to live my life in all ways - peacefully. And they told me that he'll always steal my peace, because he doesn't have any of his own. And I've been repeating this to myself because it's exactly what happened. Maybe some people are built to handle drama and chaos, but if you've got a sensitive system, it takes a toll so quickly and wears you down and honestly just makes you ill!

Such a good set of insights! You are a whole person, not the shell of the functioning human being they make us out to be. We have good hearts, and mean well, and they can't see that. Or won't. Likely because it serves them in some fashion to keep us feeling bad about ourselves.

WE are free to be with someone who is good to us. Yes. We do not deserve to be yelled at, called names, put down, belittled. Ghosted and evaded. The confusion is not our fault, and it is not kind and respectful to create this confusion in another person.

Very interesting about the person confessing feelings for you. Be careful! You are in a rough state right now, and sometimes people will come in and take advantage of that. Just a caution, it could be a very good thing, I don't know. It does help you to believe that you are a person with good qualities and who others would be attracted to.

The words our partners used against us can really get stuck in our heads, so it must be nice to have some positive words.

I feel the unpleasantness in my body pretty readily. I feel the normal anxious symptoms, but also the desire to have his `approval` and I hate it. Today, I decided to forego an activity with him. The moment he left, I felt my anxiety lift. I think the inconsistency of his behaviour puts me on edge. Here are some other things I`ve noted over the past few days:

- He said that he does not take other people`s feelings into consideration, that his feelings are above everyone else`s. While I can appreciate the importance of putting oneself first, there is also value in kindness and understanding which I think he lacks. He certainly benefited from me having this quality myself, as when he was at the hospital I picked up the phone despite him having blocked me time and time again, and I listened and supported him. I like this part of myself. I wouldn`t change having done that.
- He is constantly on his phone, messaging his `friends`, he keeps his phone right next to him no matter what he is doing. This habit irks me. I do think it`s a comfort measure for him, and to be fair, when we are apart (and he is talking to me!) he similarly will answer my texts incredibly fast while he is around other people. In particular, I know that he did that with me when he was still with his girlfriend.
- I can`t say for sure, but it certainly seems like sometimes when I am happy he will get quiet and come back saying something to `burst my bubble`. It can seem innocent, like not going along with my joke, but it does leave me feeling deflated after.


I agree that I am not in a good position to pursue something with another person, and I communicated that. It mostly makes me feel like, while I have pouring all this energy into my ex, I haven`t been getting anything back. Meanwhile, I could have been 100% surrounded by people who do love and care for me, in the way I need and receive love.

When do you think I should share with him how I feel? Before he leaves? In person? I want to say something like this:
I`m happy to have welcomed you into my home. You were a wonderful guest and it made me happy to see you in person again after so long. I`ve noticed over the past few days that we have many differences that lead me to the conclusion that we shouldn`t be friends. I care about you, and wish you all the growth and happiness.

are you 100% sure this (severing the relationship) is what you want to do?

or is it something that you feel like doing/feel like youre supposed to do given how youre feeling?

I feel like it’s what I need to do because of how I’m feeling, and how clear he was when he said that he has absolutely no romantic feelings for me. When there was the ambiguity, and I got a sense of what being close to him was like, it felt nice. But he doesn’t respect and being his friend is too hard it feels like.

Ooof, my feelings are all over the place! Having him come and stay with me for a few days isn`t a decision I`d recommend, yet the learning and conclusions are coming at an accelerated pace. I will surely need to spend time processing my realizations, but I don`t think they`d have been this clear if he had not come. So, yay  lol?

- He didn`t love me. He doesn`t love me. He liked the way I made him feel. I made him feel like he was a special person. But beyond that? He doesn`t recognize me for who I am. Not even as a friend.
- I am not a big part of his life, while he is a big part of mine. Despite recently talking to me every day, to him this was more in line with the above point and less in line with him growing to know and care for me
- I am the only `friend` who has been a consistent part of his life
- He doesn`t recognize the role that he played in making me act the way I did and the way I do. He sees me as having issues (which I do), but I know and you know that being in a relationship with a person with BPD is in and of itself crazy-making.
- He doesn`t recognize that him reaching out and talking to me regularly while he was in a relationship was a dodgy thing to do
- He was clear that he doesn`t want a romantic relationship with me, now or ever. Again, I had started to absorb that I was at fault for reading into his continued interactions with me (which turned out to be momentary distractions when other dates, relationships, whatever were not going well in his life).
- I was so excited because I had hoped that we would experience a wonderful connection on his trip (platonic!) as we were `finally` able to be together without the rest of the world coming in our way. Yet I feel intense anxiety around him, I feel unhappy, I feel like I`m not enough, I feel like I need to act differently because he likes other people more than me, I feel like he used me for my support and comfort
- I have my own pattern; I start feeling like I need to `show him` that I can be detached and that he can experience life without me, and I try (with solid intentions) to cut him off. Then, I feel intense anxiety, and convince myself that being friends is actually okay. He, of course, relents because his feelings are not involved, and he `gives me a chance` - we get back to square one
- I wish, in an ideal world, that I didn`t care what he thought about me. That I was solid enough in my own self that I could be there for him because I am a person who values that, and that I had a take it or leave it attitude when it comes to acceptance of myself.
- I wish I had handled a lot of these situations differently. I guess I shouldn`t ruminate too much about it now - what happened has past, the present is what counts, and I can move forward with grace.
- I need therapy  lol :wee:

youre going to be okay  :hug:


all kidding aside, i know what its like to be stuck in a pattern with someone, and it feels impossible to just find equilibrium with how they see you, or with how you see them. its miserable. and it can feel enormous.


you said you saw this as a test of sorts. feelings aside (if only for a moment) how do you think you "dealt with"/"handled" the visit, in terms of how you acted, or didnt?

Thank you once removed! I appreciate some levity when everything feels pretty convoluted.


Well the visit is ongoing, so a full review will come (he`s here until Wednesday). It was very intense when he first came. I am trying not to be ashamed of the fact that I `gave in` to his approach, at least initially, and also not be mad at him for it. I tried to pivot and accustomize myself, first saying that I could enjoy the moment and have fun, and when afterwards he said that he didn`t think it was a good idea anymore I tried to adapt once again and tell myself that this is for the best. I have been taking more space (in a more passive way), opting out of activities in order to relax by myself. I know very well that he is still in love with his ex. I can sense it.

I know that I have difficulty letting him go. I wish he had let me go too.

It's a lot of pressure to put on yourself to have it all figured out in your head and deliver a decision to him by the end of the trip. If he's triggering you whilst being near you, your head will naturally be all over the place.

I wonder what it would feel like to just create some space after he leaves, and sit with yourself for a while, sit with all the thoughts and observations you've listed, and yes, maybe even get some therapy to support you as you sort out how you feel and what you want?

Being clear and removing ambiguity is ultimately always a good thing, but sometimes our need to do it straight away is based in anxiety and fear. It can be helpful to communicate from a different space – one where you feel grounded, steady and sure – and time and space might be needed for that.

So seekingtheway, your advice is sound and what I would tell someone else in my position. However, things went down very differently yesterday  lol. I reached a breaking point. Here is what happened. I am writing this after the best night`s sleep I`ve had in four days. I want to try not to leave any details out, since I will reread this.

Something I hadn`t mentioned was that my friends have been checking up on me frequently throughout the day. I have been honest with them about when my ex was coming and what was happening. They would say hi, tell me about their days, tell me that they were there to listen and that they love me. I would take these calls outside, or take the opportunity to go sit by myself. There was also the call from the guy who told me about his feelings for me, which lasted longer and left me smiling. My ex heard me laughing and would make comments like `you don`t laugh like that with me`.  He also went out for supper by himself and contacted a friend in the city that he hadn`t mentioned before.

As I said, I let him go out on his own yesterday. I cleaned and relaxed. I made lunch. When he got back, he was super disengaged, which was understandable because he was tired. I don`t know what took over me, but I started feeling that his presence was bothering me. I asked him what he saw our relationship as being moving forward. He answered `support or friend`. I said that support and friend are two different roles. I mentioned things he said over the past few days: he didn`t think we`d be friends if we met today, he doesn`t think we are compatible. Why was he spending time with me? What about the physical feelings that he mentioned? To this he replied that he didn`t have physical feelings for me anymore, that sleeping with me when he first came was like closure to him. That hurt. I knew he didn`t love me, but I didn`t realize that this relationship was built on straws. I asked him if he liked me or if he liked the way I made him feel: special. He said he likes the way I make him feel. He said my love for him feels unconditional. I said `it was` and he said `thank you`.

He`s still pining for his ex. He thinks that he can win her back. I was more of a `Tina is back` or `Tina is dropped` side character in his life. I told him that the past three years had been very difficult for me, that when he kept coming back into the picture it kept me from moving on and that I know it affected my ability to have my own relationship. He said sorry. I said that the way he told me that he was dating his girlfriend was particularly difficult for me. In that call, he called me pathetic, shameful. He said sorry. He said that he felt that way about himself because he knew that he was stringing me along (he didn`t remember the call though). He seems to not remember a lot of things that were significant to me. He said he called because he didn`t have anyone else to turn to and he knew I`d be there. His apologies felt meaningless.

I asked him if he could stay with this friend he was having supper with. I wasn`t yelling or crying. I was calm and resolved. I knew the anxiety would come later, but I also felt like I couldn`t have him in my space any longer. We had made plans over the next couple of days, but it felt like I couldn`t imagine what we would talk about after all of this was on the table. I asked him if he could leave now. I told him that talking wasn`t something I wanted anymore either. I let him gather his stuff. One of my friends stayed on the phone with me. My ex said `fine with me`, `okay okay` and got ready. When he was at the door, he paused. He said it was rude for me to be on the phone, so I told my friend that I`d call him back. He said that I was being disrespectful. What I saw in his eyes was hurt now. He said that over the past few months he was being honest and vulnerable with me, and that he could finally trust someone, and it wasn`t fair to him. I said that I can`t be his support person anymore because of how I felt. I said that he wasn`t able to give me what I wanted in a relationship. He said that I didn`t even know what I wanted. I said that I knew what I didn`t want. I asked him not to contact me again and to let me move on. He said he didn`t like my tone. I repeated that he needed to leave. He left.

That was dramatic! I realize that things snowballed pretty fast. Like I said, I felt calm. The moment he left, I felt a weight lifted off of me, and I slept. Three of my friends called me. Every single one of them was happy. I know the anxiety will come. Not only do I have OCD, but the toxic nature of the relationship has undoubtedly messed with my brain. But I can deal with that seperately, and with the support that I have.

I think seeing him in person for several days was what did it. Over text, with little slights or misunderstandings, I would give myself space and let things go. In person, the contrast between what he said and what he did and how hurt I truly felt was unavoidable. The questions that I had to ask came out of me. The relationship thrived with ambiguities and misinterpretations, and it took the truth staring me right in the face for me to feel done with it.

Alrighty, I am going to need help sifting through this one.

Oh Tina. It feels like an authentic, strong, self-loving part of you came out here. After everything that's happened, you were resolute and calm. That' huge. This seems like the 'real' you, the good person you are breaking through all the confusion and hurt.

"I asked him if he could stay with this friend he was having supper with. I wasn`t yelling or crying. I was calm and resolved. I knew the anxiety would come later, but I also felt like I couldn`t have him in my space any longer. We had made plans over the next couple of days, but it felt like I couldn`t imagine what we would talk about after all of this was on the table. I asked him if he could leave now. I told him that talking wasn`t something I wanted anymore either. I let him gather his stuff. One of my friends stayed on the phone with me. My ex said `fine with me`, `okay okay` and got ready. When he was at the door, he paused. He said it was rude for me to be on the phone, so I told my friend that I`d call him back. He said that I was being disrespectful. What I saw in his eyes was hurt now. He said that over the past few months he was being honest and vulnerable with me, and that he could finally trust someone, and it wasn`t fair to him. I said that I can`t be his support person anymore because of how I felt. I said that he wasn`t able to give me what I wanted in a relationship. He said that I didn`t even know what I wanted. I said that I knew what I didn`t want. I asked him not to contact me again and to let me move on. He said he didn`t like my tone. I repeated that he needed to leave. He left."

Wow. Notice all the reversing of blame and deflection. HE told you a while back that he's selfish. HE told you he doesn't think of others (you). HE told you he doesn't take other people's feelings into consideration. HE told you that he just wants support from you (and validation). HE told you he slept with you as closure. HE told you he uses people as a distraction.

And in the moment of you standing up for yourself, he reverses it all on to you. Now you're rude for being on the phone in his presence, when he did that all the time. You're disrespectful when he disrespected your personhood and autonomy and your lovely heart. 'Could finally trust someone', which he means to make you feel you are breaking his trust. When he's done that all along. You don't know what you wanted, when he obviously doesn't know what he wants and has strung you along, and had sex with you when he really didn't care and admitted he did it because he didn't know what he wanted, until after. He doesn't like your tone.

A good-hearted person would recognize the pain and suffering in someone that cares about them, and would want to alleviate. Which means all of this wouldn't have started in the first place. But it went on a long time, and he didn't care as long as he was getting what he needs. He said so out loud. A good-hearted person, or non-disordered person, would see in the exchange above his role in making your feel this way and the obvious truths of what your'e saying to him. But he couldn't, or wouldn't, and needed to then make it about you being a bad person. Or hurting him. This is more manipulation, knowing your good heart and spirit, he's trying to make you feel bad...again.

Good job Tina, at least from my perspective.

Hi Tina, hugs for getting through what sounds like a stressful 24 hours.
I agree with Jaded that it does sound like an authentic part of you surfaced and just couldn't be contained any longer. You've been clear in saying that this situation doesn't serve you, and it all came to a head because it just felt untenable while having him in your space. There's nothing wrong with how you approached it, it's just a case of not letting the anxiety that will inevitably come on the back of this uncomfortable exchange get the better of you and you go back on it. Try and hold strong for now while you process it.

I don't have very long to write now, but the thing that stands out is that, in his interpretation at least, your connection is based on you supporting him and that's pretty much it. If he wasn't even able to warmly confirm that you are indeed friends, then it's wandered straight into the realm of a situationship –something that is defined by meeting his physical and emotional needs, but not yours?

It sounds like he thought this is literally what you were offering him - and perhaps that is indeed how it's been for some time - you being there for him when he needs it and not the other way around. But that's not the way any healthy connection is set up. Even if it's a connection purely based on friendship or support – that dynamic only works long-term if it's reciprocal and balanced, which it's clearly not. So of course it doesn't work for you.

The fact he slept with you on the first part of the trip shows that he does understand you have romantic feelings for him still – he knows this. And he probably instinctively knows that as long as those feelings continue for you, you'll be happy to stay as a support. It's a tool he can used to keep you invested... and for his needs to be met... until he doesn't need that any more.

So lots of support sent your way as you now traverse the anxiety and crappy feelings that you'll no doubt now have to face. I am so glad you have a good friend network to help you move through it. And we're here too. Hugs.

So first... :hug:. Next... :wee: |iiii. Lastly, my darling Tina can we focus on moving forward now?  :(

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Thank you all for your continued support and encouragement  :hug: ! It brings me a lot of comfort, and I am so grateful. I feel reassured that I did the right thing. Indeed, the crappy anxiety feelings have surfaced (more about that in a second).

Yesterday, I found a friend who could join me on the hike I was originally going to go on with my ex  :wee:. It was gorgeous! I am glad I followed through with that. Being in nature was healing, and the exercise took my mind off my feelings.

Slowly but surely, they returned. A deepseated anxiety that hit me like a brick when felt in full force. I wonder if I reacted too harshly. I know that, over text, the relationship would have continued for much longer. I feel my need for reassurance-seeking. What is he thinking now? Will my distance and losing me change anything? The only comfort I seem to have is in this coping mechanism (which my therapist said is part of OCD) : I ask my mom whether she thinks I will hear from him again. I cannot handle it otherwise.

I hate these thoughts. I know I`m not supposed to be judgemental, but they feel like poison. There are many times where I should have left things alone (like after the first time he asked me whether I had feelings and I said no) just to protect my sanity.

here is the thing.

if this was done with the intention of hoping he would see what he loses, and that his feelings or actions would change, that is unlikely to happen. why? because bpd, being shame based, leads to a fear of vulnerability.

anyone in his position, bpd or not, after what happened, would be taking a risk in reaching out to you to repair things, with no reason to believe you would change your mind.

so, however he feels, he is disincentivized to reach out to you.

i understand reassurance is what will help right now, but i wouldnt put faith in something happening that has no real reason to happen. its your court that the ball is in.

having said that: your reaction wasnt unreasonable. it may have been necessary. its understandable you would have mixed feelings about it. speaking to your fears, there is no great need for urgency here. you can sit on this, sort through your feelings as they simmer, and decide what, if anything, you want to do.

Thank you for your message, once removed, your insights are always so spot on.


I can say with 100% certainty that it was not my intention for him to see what he loses. It was done out of reaching my limit and, in that moment, the reality of the situation hitting me. I am greatly uncomfortable with asserting my boundaries and voicing my needs (as I can tell from the discomfort of just telling him that I didn`t like a video he had sent to me). This feels like an intense version of that.


I am also uncomfortable, and unfamiliar, with the ball being in my court, as you know   lol.

Could you expand on why my reaction wasn`t unreasonable and may have been necessary? I plan on going over this with my therapist. A theme that emerged was that I actually do know how I feel, I do know what I want and what I need to do, but I get muddled in so much self doubt that I mistrust myself.

I`m trying to adopt the mindset that it is important for to walk away from this situation and mean it, being okay with whether he never comes back, to completely stop chasing (emotionally and spiritually as well). To keep my boundaries and distance in place, and trust that the future will unfold as it was meant to. But that a relationship that was meant to be wouldn`t encompass me suffering so much.

it is pretty hard to come back from a conversation where you are told that the relationship means different things to both people. its a lot like one person wanting kids, and the other doesnt. where do you go from there?

it seems like something you felt you had to do, needed to do, and it came from an authentic and heartfelt place.

i get the sense that despite your anxiety and doubt, you really believe this was the right and necessary thing to do. i trust that.

reasonable in the sense that it was what sounds like a "righteous losing of your cool". necessary in order to close the book. it wasnt the only option, but it seemed sort of inevitable.

i dont know him, and i dont mean to disparage someone you have cared for and have a history with when i say you consistently paint a picture of someone that is not an outstanding person, is shallow, immature, and selfish; nothing against him, but im reminded of what he asked you once: "whats in it for you?"

of course, emotionally, theres always something in it for us.

i think the picture painted couldnt be looked past anymore, and because of that, it was already over, whether it had happened like this or not.


you found your voice

The moments that made me happy from his trip were when he was present with me, when we cuddled, when we cooked together, when I doted on him by bringing him water or a snack or gave him a massage, when my friend called and he said hi to her and they chatted and we shared what plans we had for the day, when we`d be out and I`d ask if he wanted to sit in the shade for a bit because he seemed to be getting hot. It made me happy to care for him. I can`t deny that I have these feelings for him. Looking back, this is what I wanted from him all along. The anxiety crept in as what I desired was shown to me and then taken away. And it`s okay for him not to share the same objectives as me. That difference itself is reason enough to walk away.

When I read back on how I was feeling before he arrived, I had been ambivalent about his presence in my life. As much as it feels like I was rejected and that he didn`t want me, another perspective is that I finally realized he wasn`t what I wanted either, and I made the decision to walk away. I had a lot of these realizations before. I felt it when his grandmother passed away and I wanted to care for him. I felt it again when he said that he would never find someone who could love him truly and I saw that he didn`t recognize me as a person. It feels like the universe brought him right in front of my face, built up my courage to finally ask the right questions and see for myself that he wasn`t the right person for me.

I have a feeling it won`t take me as long as my anxiety tells me it will take for me to feel better. I had gotten to a good place right before he contacted me last time from the hospital where I was bittersweet about accepting that he never really care, but I did. I appreciate that I tried my best.

Always remember to keep both eyes open and give people a long enough leash that eventually they will reveal their true colors. If it sounds like a duck, it looks like a duck, well my dear then it is a F :cursing: Duck!  :wee: :) *)

Moving forward I would say to try to put more emphasis on focusing your mind on the what is with people and try to compare with how you feel towards people. Basically, keep healthy boundaries and don't brush things under the rug. Keep stock of the things that make you go hmmm? Moments.

But you know what? Instead of sounding like a condescending @$$  :( how about we ask you...how do you really feel right now? What does Tina really want? What would you like to do moving forward?

To perhaps shift your mind...tell me a short-term goal for yourself right now. A long-term goal and then a dream you want to make a reality and what steps you are taking to make it happen.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Tina. No wonder your story and writing so resonates with me. I would find all of these things wonderful too, and did with my ex. I loved the 'coupleness' of us, I loved doing my best to take care of her. I loved when I could make her life a little easier, I loved when I was able to listen to her and give her support. I loved when I could take her to the airport and save her the Uber. On and on.

But like him with you, my ex didn't see ME as a person. MY needs were too much, and by the end, they were minimal to non-existent since I was chastised and snapped at if I expressed any.

MY life was really nearly completely of no concern in our relationship. It was always about her, her needs, her demands.

Thanks for your replies  :hug:. jaded7, it’s nice to know that there are kindred spirits like me!

That’s solid advice, SC, I will be more logical in the future when it comes to who I open my heart to.

<sub>But you know what? Instead of sounding like a condescending Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post)$$  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) how about we ask you...how do you really feel right now? What does Tina really want? What would you like to do moving forward

To perhaps shift your mind...tell me a short-term goal for yourself right now. A long-term goal and then a dream you want to make a reality and what steps you are taking to make it happen.</sub>

I can’t…I’m feeling really down today, hollow, I am hurting so much. I know it will pass to an extent, but I also know that I tend to see things in a bittersweet way and that I feel conflicted. I know now how much he was over me, how into his relationship he was, how little he thought of me. But I also know that I loved him to bits. I miss the support role that I had. I feel like I messed up but I know I didn’t. I hope he turns around without me in his life and thinks hmmm throughout all this who was really there for me. But I know he won’t because he is only thinking about himself, and he doesn’t have feelings for me and I am not entirely okay with that to be honest.

These things aside, I guess, what I want, is to focus on my career in my new position. Become good at that. Learn as much as I can. Find a new apartment. Save up for a car. Visit my best friend overseas. Read more. Hike more.

There we go my dear...that last little bit there. Let's focus on that. Maybe talk about each of those more here in your thread. Yes I know you are feeling low and hurt...I know and you have to feel those feelings and go through it. Hey I've been here with you for quite a while and I have and the fam here have tried to shield you a bit knowing at some point something like this was necessary and was going to happen. It did have to happen though make no mistake. This was perhaps the only way that will truly help you move on and grow emotionally.

Always remember that YOU matter and your feelings matter though and you do not need anyone else to validate them other than YOURSELF! It is nice to have them validated by others of course, but not necessary.

A new beginning is upon you. A chapter has come to a close. Take the time you need to get yourself back together and then start the new chapter little by little, one foot in front of the other, step by step...okay?

First order of business to that new chapter...tell me or rather us the Fam...What would you like to read more? Favorite author? Favorite genre or style of book or writing? Also, where is your best friend from? Where would you like to travel to and why?

Keep your head up and please be kind to you and most importantly take care of yourself  :hug:

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

I`m still wrapping my head around this. My session with my T today was both helpful and also heartbreaking. It`s back to the drawing board with steps to address thinking patterns and to focus on myself. Today I don`t feel like doing that though. I feel so down and low. I haven`t felt this way in a while. My T mentioned that the `cycle` aspect of the relationship will want to repeat itself, the dynamic being strong even though I tried to do something different. And I already feel the anxiety, the hope pushing me towards a more comfortable place. I feel like I did something wrong. I feel like I want to wait for him to contact me again. Is it that different this time? I unblocked him to try and make things more bearable, only to realize that he has blocked me. I feel so stuck.

It`s too hard to imagine a new chapter right now. I don`t know how to make my way out this time.

Tina, I myself know and understand where you are. Many of us do. I know the feeling of a Friday night reading the boards. Heck, I'm doing it now!

Just wanted to send you a virtual hug and to remind you and myself of the words above- you matter, your feelings matter, wanting someone to love you is a human experience. We just got caught up in unhealthy dynamics that are confusing and hurtful.

Do you play an instrument? Do you like music? These have been so special to me during my time of healing and learning about myself. I listen to music and admire the dedication and determination that the players had to learn the instrument, master it, and then express themselves through it. It'a a miracle and so healing to share in someone's expression of themselves. And I play my guitar that I bought just after all this happened. I'm teaching myself music theory and it's perfect for getting my mind out of the rumination and instead deeply focused. Plus it gives immediate feedback and I can see myself getting better, which is really nice.

Just sending you thoughts.

Thanks jaded7. I didn`t even realize that it was Friday! My schedule is all over the place, and I`ve spent the day in bed.

I read back on my posts from late April - before he contacted me the last time - and I feel hopeful. I had reached a peaceful state. I had realized that I still had feelings for him, and I was happy to live with loving him for afar, I didn`t want to get back into anything because I knew I would get hurt. Then he contacted me from the hospital, and I wanted to be there for him, and I buried my feelings...oh well. I made a mistake. Several mistakes.

It`s for the best that things are cut off. I know that. If life wants to bring us together again, then so be it. I`m allowed to hope for it. But my life doesn`t have to stop for it.

I don`t play an instrument, but I do enjoy music! I would love to pick something up soon. That`s so cool that you`ve been teaching yourself guitar!

There you have it. A time when you centered and found yourself. It's still there. It never went anywhere, it just got snowed over.

I knew guitar before, but I just played chords by ear for a long time. So my new guitar is an electric one where all I do is try to figure out how the greats could solo all over the neck in different keys and modes. It's astounding.

Pick up an instrument! Even harmonica. Hope you have a good rest of your night.

It`s truly wonderful how music can create a shared experience! Although I don`t know enough about playing instruments to truly appreciate keys and modes and their true mastery, I certainly feel moved by how it all comes together and captures deeply human experiences.

I wrote about a song called `Love is a selfish thing` before, and I return to listening to it in this moment. The words `you never really cared as I needed, you never really care, but I did` are especially relatable. No wonder I played it over and over again before. That`s exactly what I experienced. And the fact that they are lyrics to a popular song show that the experience, painful and heartbreaking, is a shared one that are part of being human. I find that sweet sadness very pretty indeed.

Hi Tina, I’m really sorry that you’re feeling so low. It’s going to feel pretty crappy for some time, but as you said, you’ve gotten through it before and you will again this time.

Fighting through the anxiety is really hard, I identify with that. Especially when things haven’t been left in a great space. I have really struggled with this with my ex. And as you may know, I repeatedly went back to soothe things and try and least leave things in a better place. Ultimately this never helped. It just opened the door to more misunderstanding, more hurt… and ultimately it doesn’t take the loss or the grief away, which is what has to be faced no matter which way you’d chosen to stop the merry go round. The way you chose was not wrong… it wasn’t your only option but it was what the situation led you to in that moment. Even though it might not feel like it right now, you showed strength.

In terms of the high levels of anxiety you feel and have felt within this dynamic… a lot of that potentially stems from the vast inconsistency… the moments of attention and affection that are thrown in amongst a huge amount of neglect and disrespect. It’s these highs mixed with lows… and never knowing what’s coming next… that keeps you hooked. Like an addiction. Just hoping and waiting for some more of the highs so you don’t have to feel the awful lows. But safe love is consistent… it’s this consistency that allows your nervous system to settle and feel trust. It sounds like you haven’t had that with this guy for a very long time, if ever.

I’ve been exploring this with my therapist recently as it’s clear my ex was massively inconsistent with his love for me… which no doubt is a pattern I’ve already experienced in my childhood… and there’s a lot of grief underneath that… but I had this lightening bolt realisation the other day that although lots of people who are important to me haven’t been consistent, I am consistent… I show up for other people, i don’t flake, I look at my own stuff, and try and show up for myself, and I’m not gonna give up on that… and that means I’m going to be okay.. And you will be too. On the other side of this is peace and more awareness of yourself. I hope the next few days are gentle for you.

Thank you for your words, seekingtheway. You bring up a good point with the inconsistency. I also contributed to my situation: I build sandcastles in my head, and kept returning because of this. I needed a dose of reality, and boy did I get it. In that moment when I stood up for myself, I knew that I`d feel crappy for some time afterwards (although it`s easy to say that I didn`t realize it would be this bad), but I had told myself that it was time for me to overcome my fears. He wasn`t listening to my needs, he wasn`t respectful of my personhood, he was using me to fill in gaps between relationships. It wasn`t sustainable in the long run, because I`d keep running into obstacles such as feeling this lack of respect, especially when he would start dating again or return to his ex, and that would hurt me. I owe myself the decision to take action and remove myself from such situations. He was right in saying that my love for him was unconditional (and still is to an extent). I do adore him and see him as a lost person with many struggles and little insight, but that doesn`t mean that I have to remain in the line of fire as his doormat.

I know all that logically. I have experienced inconsistency in childhood. I have a father who would praise me one day, only to disappear and say that I wasn`t his daughter the next. I have come (or so I believed) to terms with how he is. I love him very much, and recognize that he does his best with his limited capabilities, that he himself had a difficult childhood, and that he did express his love in the ways he could. It is sad that he remains unhappy despite being surrounded by people who love him and, despite having achieved financial stability, he still compares himself to others and will always see lack. I watched my mother be by his side all my life despite him calling her horrible names, ignoring her. There was something comforting in a dynamic where the other person can do or say whatever, but at the end of the day you remain together. I know I should want more for myself, that I am not in the same position as my mother (as I thankfully can pay for my own bills due to the education that they provided for me). Yet, again, it felt right and safe.

I am so sensitive to hard endings as well. I didn`t realize to what extent I felt this way until now. It seems like good things about me (my patience, my kindness, my empathy) were the things that my ex resented the most about me.

I know we have touched on this before, and that it is unrealistic to have this hope, but I have it anyways. I hope that I will hear from him, with a renewed intention, after taking his space.

one of the tools you will learn in therapy, presumably, is to delay gratification.

for example, lets say youre on a miserable diet. youre craving ice cream, or steak, or chips, or whatever it is you crave. its on your mind, you cant stop thinking about it, you want it, its killing your motivation and depressing you to tell yourself "no", and it persists anyway. what you do, instead, is you tell yourself "not now, but later", and mean it. amazingly, it works. your body relents, satisfied and looking forward to it. by the time "later" comes, you dont care anymore.

so much about OCD, anxiety, and obsessing, is about learning to sit through (and/or work through) the intensity of feelings. you learn to trust, really trust, that they are temporary, which helps you detach from them some. as a result, that tendency, and that intensity, loses its hold. its about learning to trust in "later".

i did that some after my breakup. all i wanted to hear from anyone is that they were certain my ex would contact me (as if they possibly could). what really helped was someone telling me that i could contact my ex any time i wanted. say whatever i wanted. the option would always be there if i wanted it. but that "right now", really wasnt the best time. it helped with the urgency around what i was feeling. made me feel in control. "later" came, and i didnt want it anymore.

ive never learned to reduce the frequency (ive never been in therapy, but you likely will), but it has helped me learn never to act on it or make it worse.

its also possible that you may be depressed, grieving, any number of things, that will generally take the wind out of your sails, and your mind wander a lot more. what will likely help, and if it doesnt, wont hurt, is just giving things some time to see where your feelings come out. and if something persists, you will tend to see it with more clarity.

youre in such a stronger place now than youve ever been, and with support to get even stronger. i know it feels like an upending, or a regression, but if youre starting from scratch, and rebuilding and reworking those thinking patterns, you are starting off from an inherently higher level, and with great guidance; it will stick.

yesterday, when I got back from work, I was tired and feeling increasingly anxious. I called a friend. We talked, and, lo and behold, my anxiety diminished and then went away.

What did we talk about? We laughed because she told me a funny story. I told her about work, which has been both challenging and fun lately. We also laughed at me, and the situation I find myself in. I said that I don`t want to find myself later in life being sad because he blocked my hollogram signal  lol. She then, lovingly, made fun of me and my pattern. She said that in 2-3 months from now, I will feel an itch and reach out to him, saying that I want to be there for him. To her I will say that I am so happy, that I don`t actually have feelings for him, that he`s so easy and fun to talk to, that this time it`s different. According to her statistics, 75% of the time he responds and we start talking again. The other 25% of the time, I get all mopey and say `I guess this time it`s really different`, then either try again a couple of weeks later or he reaches out to me. Then, as we talk, either he gets mad at me for a weird reason or I start to feel unhappy and say no more.

This has happened at least...3 times in the last year? For some reason, talking about this helps bring light to the situation. Even when I am reassurance-seeking with my mom, and asking her `will I hear from him again?`, she has started replying `probably because both of you are nutbars`  lol.


I find myself sometimes having a triggering thought and going `oh no I will be sad`. Then, thinking it through and using new perspectives, I eventually feel `actually no`.

Today I`m feeling: he said that he doesn`t have romantic feelings for me, he doesn`t have physical feelings for me, he felt like we weren`t compatible of many levels, and that we wouldn`t be friends if we met each other today. As I list that I sort of laugh - why was he wasting my time?

I think, as per my own pattern, the mornings are the hardest, as I wake up with a lot of ruminating (what ifs, etc.) and anxiety. I find connecting with a friend, journaling, and making a nice breakfast to be the most helpful lately.

Also, as per my pattern, I read my old journal entries (and posts here), and feel compassion for myself. I can read the efforts that I put into trying to move forward with a lot of pain and sadness. Certain entries make me think `that was a key realization` (like when I accepted who I am and the fact that I love with all my heart, and when I wrote that his grandmother passing away made me realize that I really wanted to be there for him, and that the fact that I couldn`t be entirely was hurting me). I wrote about how I liked things about him, not what he did from me, and this is a big contrast to how I`ve learned he views me. I also see the ways that the ambiguities lead me to remain strung along, ambiguities that have now since been cleared, like that he didn`t keep coming back because he had feelings for me but rather because he felt alone and knew I`d be there. That`s still sad for me to accept.

I also wrote a lot about the hopes and dreams that I had. Then I`d accept that they were only dreams. Writing my desires did help, though. So I`ll try it again. I can`t help but wish that somehow, he`ll recognize my actions as an act of self-love and respect, and come to appreciate the person who I am and the role I can play in his life beyond support. I wish he`d apologize, and want to be with me. Of course, realistically, this makes no sense as it would require him to see past his own perspective, and that wouldn`t be how he is. Accepting him as he is, he`d most likely be mad at me and what I `did to him`, and since he is getting support now from new connections he wouldn`t even feel a sense of loss since that is the only role I truly played in his life.

realistically, if someone kicked you out of their apartment, and told you not to contact them again, would you?

it would be an incredibly tall order for anyone. even if they were sorry. even if they thought they were completely in the wrong.

i dont mean to call into question what you did. i mean to say that if you want to talk to him, then talk to him.

and, to be clear, i dont mean to say "talk to him".

there were a lot of reasons i wanted to hear from my ex again. part of it is to do with me - i dont like the finality of formal endings. part of it was because wed known each for 6 years and been together for 3 of them. even to this day i cant understate the impact she had on my life. a lot of it was because of the order of magnitude with which shed behaved so poorly and so hypocritically during the breakup that i almost couldnt stomach that she wouldnt eventually see how she treated me.

looking back, most of it had to do with how badly i felt kicked to the curb.

all that time. all that investment. all the words, from us both, about how no one understood us better than the other. all the urgency of my first adult relationship, and by an order of exponents, my longest.

it hurt my heart that all of that had been diminished. spat upon.

i wanted, more than anything, to know that those things had some cosmic weight. that i mattered. that our relationship mattered. that our time together mattered. that my version of what id experienced made some kind of sense to someone other than me.


in all of this, you probably spent a lot of time not feeling seen. i cant promise you that the person you most wish would see you, will see you now, or later. i can, however, assure you that people see it. i can encourage you, likewise, to see it. no matter how you feel about it now, or 10 years from now, or 20, you gave your all to a person. i think you can spend a lifetime learning from the experience, but i dont think its one to regret, ultimately.


there is no better psychology tool, nothing more beneficial youll ever be taught in therapy than being able to take the  :cursing: out of yourself, and/or to let loved ones do it. nothing will ever make you feel more seen and your problems diminished at the same time.


its brutal, yeah  :hug:

do you feel differently about him?

I probably would, but I have issues  *). I get what you mean, though. Unfortunately, I see that he has blocked me everywhere, which is not surprising, so that option is moot.


you`re right on both accounts: he didn`t see it, but my friends and family see it. when i read back on my journal entries and posts, i see it. i think i still have lots to learn from this experience (which as i`ve said before can be annoying). i think i get caught up in the details of how and when exactly i said things, but ultimately, a lot of that didn`t even matter and things would come to the same conclusion of me needing to remove myself because i kept getting hurt, because i cared about him and he couldn`t give me what i needed.


and there certainly is a lot to laugh at in my case  lol. i guess because in reality he offered me so little, and i repeat the same motions so often, it all feels predictable and demoralizing.


i kept telling him how great he is, and what he deserves, and supporting him. i never told him how  :cursing: his behaviour was. i hoped that he`d see it somehow. i wonder if i`d been able to tell him these feelings more often if he`d respect me more. i felt, in the moment that i asked him to leave a sense of how is he supposed to come back from all of this. i think that`s the wall that i kept hitting in my own head; if i have to explain this to you, and you are telling me that you don`t care, what am i wasting my energy on?

i loved him, but i couldn`t handle not being authentic with him.

i loved the connection that i felt with him when...when he let me love him. i could and would have done that for him for the rest of our lives if he would have been willing.

in all fairness, i think lots of us here can relate  *)


it isnt surprising when a person feels told off. ive done this before; been blocked, and blocked them back. its the equivalent of "you cant fire me, i quit".

hes unblocked you before. thats probably not an obstacle long term. he laid into the relationship. you laid into him. the bridge? it doesnt look good.

i guess im trying to say the guy could come jesus tomorrow, and repairing this would still be hard, even if he came to you first.

i suppose im also trying to say, it probably doesnt have to be the last chapter, if you dont want it to be. it sounds like, there are, right now, competing parts of you. give them time to catch up with each other. seriously, it has been no time at all.


i wish two things for you.

the first would be that you know that your feelings are normal and they are ordinary. they arent ordinary, as in dime a dozen, i mean that there isnt anything youre feeling that is somehow wrong or strange or makes you weak or that anyone cant identify with. i promise.

you may feel them more acutely than the average person, though far from every person. that, in and of itself, is neither a good nor a bad thing; just a quality, just a difference between you and a given person like hair color. it can be overwhelming, for sure, but lots of things can be. lots of people need extra help, or a few re-tests, learning how to drive. youre learning now, to face them, to manage them, with help. in other words, as hard as this is, you dont have to feel at the mercy of it anymore.


if i had to wager, you may kick yourself for this for a while. you might wish that you had, or could, say anything, to take it back even a little. you may have imaginary arguments with him. you probably wouldnt even need to be directly involved; just to know that life sent him that message and he got it. if im even approaching it, i promise you that will disappear. it may even be the last thing to go, but it will.


what if youd told him those things more often, and he respected you less?

a trap that so many of us fell into was remaining in these relationships long past their expiration date. when the dead end was there, and the writing was on the wall, many of us persisted, dysfunctionally, trying to change the other person.

it is a myth, that we "teach others how to treat us". we cant make others treat us how we want them to, and generally speaking , teaching other people how to behave is either for a profession, or the definition of codependency.

question: if you respected yourself more, how do you think the relationship would have played out?

side note: long story short, i had to take my driving test 5 times  lol

i have written about this aspect of my personality before. when I am happy, I smile and dance and feel like i sparkle. when I am sad, i am down on the couch watching reruns of my favourite tv shows and barely moving. my dad is like this. i remembered how, when business wasn`t going well for him, he would disappear into the basement and would barely talk to anyone. i would try to go cheer him up, hug him and bring food to him, but it was like he couldn`t see me. i think he was depressed. i think that i have these `moody` tendencies too. what this leads me to is that i need better coping mechanisms. or to ride the wave, because i always end up feeling better.

interestingly, my dad and my ex are the ones who noticed this about me (or at least brought it up) the most as well. they both would tell me how easy i am to read (ever since i can remember my dad would tell me `i can read you like a book` and i would think that isn`t too hard  lol).


i think that if i did start going down that path of keeping him in check over every little thing, there would be no end to it. when i did try to engage him in such conversations, they would be long and draining. i think it just wasn`t in his capacity to understand me or my perspective.

to answer your second question, i think about my best friend, who is a great model for me when it comes to healthy thinking and secure attachment. i would wonder how she`d handle the relationship. the thing is, she did find herself in a situation where a guy who showed some narcissistic tendencies cheated on her and wanted to remain friends. she tried that - for a month - and then cut contact with him. she met her current partner, who is kind and caring, not long after. all that to say, how do i think the relationship would have played out if i respected my more? i think i wouldn`t have tolerated this behaviour and i would have checked out sooner.

-----

i am feeling better today. i woke up with the song `thub thumping` playing in my head (i`m not making this up) which for anyone who isn`t familiar contains the lyrics `i get knocked down, but i get up again, you are never going to keep me down`. i am feeling inspired to change who i identify as. i think a lot of the conflict comes from the mismatch between the more low-level beliefs that i had for myself, and the person who i want to be. so, i say, i am someone who speaks up when someone else isn`t behaving kindly to me, and isn`t afraid to remove them from my life because i trust that better things are coming to me. i am someone who another person would want to apologize to and fight for to have in their lives, because i bring a lot of love and support and care that is unique to me. i don`t get down in the weeds over leaving behind people and beliefs that go against my value, and since that is the case with my ex, goodbye to him, i didn`t want that version of him in my life anyways, he annoyed the  :cursing: out of me.

Hi Tina, some interesting insights in this last post of yours - loving the way you rounded it up - it all sounds very strong and healthy.

Made me laugh about the thub thumping reference - I may have danced on a few tables in my time to that song. Was a staple song back in the day in the English pub scene! But it's an apt soundtrack for now. Good to keep the humour in all of this too.


What you say here feels very spot-on - I think this is one of the major ways the balance of power gets tipped in the relationship, because there's just no way of being able to bring things up and resolve them. So you don't. Or if you do, it's so exhausting and upsetting and destabilises everything, you're no further ahead. Whereas in a healthy relationship, these conflict moments can actually be used to understand each other more and create better intimacy. It's a huge difference between a healthy relationship and a toxic one.


This could be a mic-drop moment?! I hope you do come back and read this in the months that follow... it's a great blueprint  :wee:

Thanks for your reply, seekingtheway   :hug: . Lots of food for thought. You mentioning power balance makes me want to read more about manipulation, because behind the scenes I think I was under a weird spell at times.

I`ve been getting busy with work again, which is a nice change in pace. I`m also in the process of moving! A slightly bigger (and cheaper!) place opened up in my building, I went to see it and loved the flow! I got a deal on some of the furniture, so it`s less of a headache. I feel like this will be more of a place where I lay down my roots, at least for a while, and I look forward to decorating and creating a cozy space.

That being said, I do want take some time to check in with myself, as in the past I would go several days without feeling my feelings and then they would all `hit me` the moment I slowed down.

I had a great session with my therapist last week! I put a lot of effort into a big mindmap beforehand. To give an idea, I started with `decision-making Tina`, as in the version of me that decided to cut contact with my ex. I listed out my reasons, and also what I ultimately want: a better future. Now, that future may or may not include my ex, but the point was that as things were I was unhappy, and so I had a `take out the trash` mentality. Change what wasn`t working, let things settle, and give space for better.

Then, I listed out what tends to get in the way of this goal: OCD behaviours, anxiety, depression, and true love and care for my ex. What I learned was that compulsive behaviours are a (maladaptive) coping mechanism when it comes to avoiding facing difficult feelings. Compulsive behaviours can take on many forms. For me, I would engage in reassurance-seeking, i.e needing to hear that it wasn`t the end, that I would hear from him again. Of course, the cyclical nature of the relationship didn`t help - my brain is particularly attuned to patterns (there was probably also an addictive component to the whole thing).

It didn`t take much deep digging to identify what those hard truths that I was avoiding are: 1) the end of the relationship, 2) the fact that he loved and dated someone else (and wants to be with her), and 3) the unknown component of when if what will I hear from him again. We spoke about how I felt shameful that I still hadn`t gotten `over` it. I thought I had, but I was just convincing myself because I wanted to be there for him during his hospitalization, since, as I mentioned, I do genuinely care about him. My therapist was very kind about this point, saying that people process grief at their own pace. I mentioned that my ex would himself say that I should be over it by now, which contributed to my shame, and my T mentioned the concept of `correcting mechanism`. The idea is that, because he didn`t like the idea of hurting me (after all, most of us want to believe we are good people), he would `correct` my feelings in order to avoid feeling shame on his end over how he was treating me. She also pointed out that I tend to see things through `his lens`, which I had noticed too. It`s hard to get out of that mindset.

And so, I`m focusing on validating my feelings without resorting to coping mechanisms. And the truth is, I am sad! This relationship meant a lot to me! I don`t like that someone I loved has moved on. I don`t like the unknown in the future. It`s hard not to reason my way out of these feelings. I am taking walks in nature, listening to music, reading books about how life has both joy and sadness. I don`t have to like it - I can just accept it. I`m leaning into that. I have thoughts that I categorize as `what I dreamed of`, like waking up next to him, having coffee with him, holding his hand...those are hard to let go of too. They are painful in a different way, because I wanted them for so long, it feels like I am letting go of a part of me as well.

My friends have been showing up for me. They take the edge off by saying it`s okay to be sad, but also consider yourself free! And that it is a part of life. And that the way I loved him was unconditional and sweet and caring and I gained back my power of choice.

Someone asked me today if I am seeing anybody, and I replied `no, I`m healing`. They asked `from a breakup?`. I replied `I knew him for 8 years. We actually broke up a long time ago, but I was holding on. I stopped talking to him a few weeks back because I realized that it wasn`t good for me. `. I think that several years ago, I would not have imagined myself being so open and vulnerable and matter of fact in a casual way  lol. Here we are.

Tina I'm so glad to see you working on this so well in therapy. I like how you describe the way you loved him- unconditional and sweet. That is your heart, the real you.

I think we do need to let go of a part of ourselves too. The part we gave to them- physically, emotionally, even spiritually. This can feel like a real heavy loss, and that a part of us is 'missing'. That part is probably very much tied to the younger selves of us, that needed love and connection. Perhaps we didn't get that when we were growing up. Perhaps we (in my case) allowed ourselves to be really vulnerable and open, believing in they love they seemed to give us. Believing they saw us, in whole, and loved us.

Writing out the previous reply, I had a memory that relates and I'll share here.

About a year into our relationship, after all the devaluation and anger had come out, I recall sitting in my place trying to talk to her when she was angry and attacking me. She had violated my boundary of not coming over, I said I'll call you when I'm done with work. She did not like that, at all. She had wanted to come over and 'connect', but to my credit I said that I don't think we are ready for that (after huge explosions in the week before and put downs and belittling), I'll call you when I'm done at my business. She ignored that three or four times, I said I'll call you three or four times, I said no don't come over.

She simply ignored all that and just showed up, then was inexplicably mad at me and blamed me for "taking her to the brewpub" with me and my clients, when "I know she hates brewpubs", when she just showed up against my clearly-stated wishes, and said yes when I asked her if she wanted to go to the brewpub with us. And she knew I went to the brewpub with my friends and clients every other Friday night after the event.

As we sat there in my place, her angry and attacking me, going around and around in circles. I said to her two things

-honey, you are really critical of me. I'm not critical of you, have you noticed that? "Well, I guess you're just a better person than me". Said with disdain and sarcasm
-honey, remember all the nice things you texted to your friend about me? They are all still true, I'm the same person as when you said that to your friend. "That's before I knew all this other stuff about you!" I said...what stuff?

They don't see us, they don't hear us. They have a narrative that serves them they project onto to us, then somehow it is our job to change who we are to repair that faulty narrative they have of us! How can we do this, especially when the narrative shifts to suit them?

Thank you for your reply and for sharing your experience, jaded. You bring up great points. It does feel like I was a wall onto which he projected his feelings.

I thought that by showing him my heart, my real unconditional love, that he would recognize me. Instead, he disrespected and used me. These past few days, I`ve been feeling something new: disgust. I can see his actions for what they were. He put his needs first and completely disregarded my feelings. He demonstrated very low-level behaviours. I thought he had changed, but he isn`t ready for an honest and healthy relationship.

This is a new perspective for me. It almost feels like a lie because it`s so different than what I usually think. I`ve learned though that doubts tend to invade me when I start being self-assured. So, I`ll see where this feeling takes me.

I`ve been perusing the lessons section from this board. I realized that:

- I`ve been stuck in the `bargaining` phase of grief for a long time. I wanted to be his friend, his partner, his support...anything to maintain a connection. I have to face that in any way shape or form, he hurts me.
- I have had all of the `10 beliefs that keep you stuck`  lol. Every. Single. One. I had read them before! I think that I needed to come back to them a few times to see clearly just how stuck they made me.
- I wanted so much to believe in unconditional love and care for someone. But the line has to be drawn, I`ve come to learn, when someone is hurting you, because you need to give that unconditional love and care to yourself as well.

Updates  :hi:

I feel like I`ve made more progress in the past few weeks than I have in years.

I oscillate between sadness and acceptance and hope, but feel done with negotiation. Who knew the best decision could be made in a moment after years of self doubt?

Well....that is good news.  :wee:

Also, my dear Tina...the OCD aspect has been the main culprit most likely. You had to arrive at your own F :cursing: it junction in your own way on your time. All that time spent over-analyzing and picking everything apart your mind finally got to the point of it was time to S :cursing: or get off the pot!

ABP should be your go to acronym everyday. What does it mean? Always Be Progressing.  |iiii :) *)

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

My therapist said something along the lines of `the pull of the cycle will be strong`. Which kind of sounds like something out of Star Wars  lol. I do feel it though. Wanting to `correct` the situation. The false comfort of what I now know are compulsive behaviours like checking if I am blocked. Especially in the mornings for some reason.

What helps is getting busy with work, talking to friends. I am in the process of furnishing my new place. I didn`t realize that couches were so expensive!

Hello fam  :hi:! I hope you`ve all been well. I`ve gotten busy with work (I seem to say that every post, but it`s true!). Unfortunately, so busy that I haven`t scheduled a therapy session in a while. But, I`ve been able to secure a couple of session so yay  :wee:!

Here is the update of my emotional state-of-being: okay  lol. I have had many ups and downs, and the trend over the past week has been down. I sense that my OCD is getting the better of me in many arguments that I have in my mind. I have tried challenging these thoughts when appropriate, validating them when needed, and reorienting them when they were negatively skewed. I`ve reached out to friends for support, gone on hikes, read books to take my mind off of things. And yet. I feel stuck in a place that I have been many times before. Stuck in a different way, since I know the truth now, that he didn`t love me.

Maybe this is just the way things are for now before they get better.

I am tired of wondering if and when I will hear from him, yet that seems to be where my mind wanders to again and again. My brain doesn`t like this role reversal it seems.

Keep your head up gang! I have had such a journey while posting here, and I hope that it will make more sense in the future.

What I wish I had told him. Feeling like a lot of the pieces are coming together on my end  |iiii.


Hi,

I hope you`ve been well. I have been wrapping my head around what happened.

When we played the Friendship game, one of your questions was `what is something I don`t realize?`. I didn`t answer at the time. I regret that. I want to tell you about my experience.

While you were in a relationship, you said that you couldn`t talk to me because your girlfriend wasn`t comfortable with it. That was hard for me, but I understood and I gave you space. Several times, you then reached out to me. You needed love and validation, and I gave them to you. I read into it. I thought that you`d realize that you were coming to me because you had with me a level comfort that you couldn`t find in someone else. Even before your relationship, you would turn to me because you knew I`d be there for you.

You also have worried about not finding someone who will love you as you are. This hurt to hear, because I have played that role for you. You said that you were worried about still being friends with her, but you knew that I would be there. How did you know? That lead us to a conversation about what a solid basis of a relationship really is, and we spoke about how it`s that same support,friendship and trust, that is built on.

All that to say, I think what you didn`t, couldn`t or wouldn`t realize is that I offered to you everything you wanted and more. You took me for granted. The heart wants what the heart wants, and you don`t have to love me back and want a relationship with me. But given everything that happened, you either genuinely didn`t realize what you felt, or you did and knowing this you still used me to fulfill your needs when you had them. Both of these cases end up hurting me, and that is why I can`t accept this treatment anymore. 

Hi Tina,

This reads like you have a lot of clarity... and you've distilled the situation into some very clear and simple realisations, and acknowledged the hurt that it's caused you.

How are you feeling about these words and realisations remaining unsaid to him at the time being?

Thanks for checking in seekingtheway!

I wrote that letter about a week ago. In preparation for a therapy session, I went through my journal entries and messages to friends, and made a diagram that put everything together. I`m still adding to the diagram as I have more realizations.

The big points include that this journey for me has been one in 1) learning my boundaries and 2) managing my OCD. When it comes to learning my boundaries, I realize now that I felt in my body what I couldn`t at the time put in words. I was scared of letting go of a person that I didn`t even like. I`m only beginning to understand the full extent and importance of standing up for myself to him. Self care never leads away from our highest good, it leads towards it. Therefore, he is not for me, because everything in me was telling me that I had enough and couldn`t stand being around him.


I realized that he knew all along the underlying messages that he was sending to me by reaching out. He knew all the things that I thought he didn`t notice. He knew from the way that I responded that I still cared. It was obvious. He knew that he didn`t have feelings for me, but he kept me around in order to satisfy specific needs that he had. He acted against me. He used the confusion as a way to control me. I couldn`t see it, I thought that he didn`t notice who I was, but he knew, and you guys saw it, my friends saw it. Everyting was out there.

So I don`t need to say those things to him because he always knew. It isn`t necessary. I`m removing the power and hold that his confusion had on me. He doesn`t have the priviledge of knowing what I think anymore.

I fell for a younger, sweeter version of him who, yes, messed up (as did I), but that person would still own up to his mistakes. Over the past few years, he has grown into a more selfish and self-serving man. A man who only sees the people around him to the extent of what they can do for him and nothing more. I do not love this man. He repulses me. He steals (literally) and lies. He has changed. I changed too. I grew kinder and sweeter towards the people that I love. But I also got tougher. I do not want to play this game. I do not want to waste my time.

Tina...wow! You are developing some real clarity and sense of who YOU are. Thanks for sharing this, I'm inching in the direction myself and it's helpful to read.

its amazing how this can work.

i started speech therapy about three months ago. instantly became just out of my mind obsessed with my therapist. just endlessly miserable about it. i worked through it. its long gone. but it was, for a time, all consuming.

im talking about OCD in particular, but what you describe has happened in some form to most people. what can go into our feelings/attachment toward another person can be full of things that, nothing against them, arent really about them, and when that disappears, they can often suddenly seem dull in comparison. developing an insight into that can give you such an advantage in the dating world, or the world of human nature, for that matter.

Great to hear your update Tina, you're clearly pushing through some really important work in therapy. And you do seem really clear in your realisations, and like you've spun the lens of focus from him and his needs to you and your needs, and this is where you start to become unstuck. It's been a really powerful season of progress for you.

These thoughts you have in terms of whether he saw what he was doing, and all the confusion that was created, I do agree with you. We put so much effort that goes into understanding someone who is not consistent in their behaviours, trying to figure out what things mean, how to keep them happy, how to keep things stable... and that is underpinned by our own fears of abandonment... that we totally lose sight of who we are, what we need, and why that relationship is not serving us at all.

I especially liked your comment about not giving him the privilege to know what you think about things any more. This is huge.

And to get to a place where you are ready to see that you didn't even like him towards the end - this is where you start to get your internal freedom and peace back.

I wonder if the younger 'sweeter' version of him was potentially being driven by the idea of being in love with you and not wanting to lose that. And once you'd shifted in his head to someone who was there to meet his needs but not someone he needed to commit to, you were just receiving a more true version of him?

jaded, I`m so happy to hear that for you and look forward to reading about your insights! It`s definitely an ongoing journey that has its ups and downs, but I`m grateful for this space where we all get each other  :wee:.

onceremoved, I totally relate to all consuming thoughts. I used to think that my ruminations were so vast that there was no way for me to handle them. But once I started documenting them, I noticed that they all fell into one of 6 categories. The thing is, I had already thought about and drawn satisfying conclusions with most of these categories (all but 2 of them, which I am still working on!). It was very eye opening!

I have been making links between my father, the stressful situation I was in when the relationship was developping, my own desires for freedom...it is important to remind myself that I am safe now. I can choose to be free and not repeat the patterns of my past. I think about my children (if I ever have them), who would I want to be their father? I wouldn`t want to repeat the same traumas and experiences from the past.

seekingtheway, you ask some great questions. I am sure more clarity will bring to light what I felt for him at the time. The present situation holds no ambiguity though - he sucks and good riddance  lol.

I think I can only truly appreciate the hold the situation had on me as I let go of it. I now feel more free. I told him to let me go, to let me move on. At the time, I sort of thought I threw that in there to get him to leave, but it turns out that it was such a deep request on my part; I had been holding myself back because of the belief that we had some sort of connection. It kept me from engaging with real potential relationships. I feel myself more present, more attracted to and interested in others (in both friendly and potentially romantic ways!). And like I said, he knew what he was doing, and I believe that he is an unkind person for it. Just ew  lol!