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Further to my other post about filing for temp orders today the county sheriffs turned up and escorted me off the property.
They were pretty kind to me and let me go in get some possessions, say bye to my kids.

My wife has alleged that I pushed her, slammed a door into her and she is worried I will use a firearm on her.

The truth is before filing I removed the firearm from the property as I was worried about her reaction to being served.

On the night I had just had a shower and was in my separate room downstairs, she demanded to come in. My s7 was asleep in my bed, as sometimes he gets scared and wants daddy.

She had noticed the gun was gone and was demanding I brought it back. I insisted it was not coming back it was off the property for safety reasons.

She kept shouting at me, I was half naked as I got out the shower. I asked her to stop shouting she refused.
I asked her to leave my room she refused.

I gently pushed on the door as I was half in and she was the other side. She let out this meek oww noise. Then she just left.

It felt strange at the time she just left like that, now I realize she was clearly trying to fabricate evidence.

What a physco she is.

Now I have a court hearing..... And the rub of it is, I spent all day working on temp order paperwork with my attorney due to her poor behaviour, alienating me from the kids etc.

Pretty upsetting but I can't say I am suprised from what I have read on her. Absolute text book Borderline

I'm so sorry this happened to you.  But not all that surprised.  I suspect she felt she had to concoct something to make you look worse than her.

Let us know how this develops.  Will she try to keep you away from the kids too?

That happened to many of us here.  Me too.  I can remember two episodes, two years apart, one that triggered our separation, the other as our divorce trial was only months away.  The first was when I called the police and stated we had a domestic dispute.  That enraged her even more.  How dare I get outsiders involved in her family rages.  (But I was recording on a digital recorder that had a broken speaker.)  When the police arrived she was still angry but more composed.  I don't know what she told them but one officer asked me to hand our quietly sobbing preschooler in my arms to his mother and when I tried he shrieked and clung tighter.  What small child won't go to his mother.  My kid saved me that evening from "stepping away" and probably getting a ride  or worse in a police car.  Well, after they left she bragged how they gave her a booklet on DV.  Once I had privacy, I downloaded my recording of that day and played it for an officer.  With that documentation as evidence she was arrested for Threat of DV.  Thereafter she made repeated insinuations and allegations of child abuse but for years she didn't even try to accuse me of DV.

Back to your changed circumstances.  I'm sure it was a shock.  Likely the police will still want any weapons in safekeeping, policy.  But unless one of you made a recording, it may come to an ineffectual "he-said, she-said".  Sadly though, courts will err on 'protecting' the claimed victim, usually the aggressive one posing as a helpless victim.

What's she's done is set herself up as parent in possession unless you and your lawyer can document she is consistently the aggressive one.  I presume you have recordings of her angry  rants and rages?  That could counter her posing as helpless and controlled.

I recall that both my stbEx and I started out with protection petitions against the other.  That may not totally negate her initial strategy to pose as victim and you as abuser, but at least it will force the professionals to more closely scrutinize both of you and not limited to just you.  As it stands right now, police and court has her TPO (likely including the kids too?) and unless enlightened otherwise they will only scrutinize you as the alleged perp.  You want the light shown on her too, I would suspect.

Too, she may also claim you're an abusive father so the kids may be interviewed by CPS.  If so, then do the kids have counselors who know some of the ongoing home environments?  You should be involved so the kids aren't prepped to recite her claims.

Thanks it was a shock, but reading here had prepared me for thr possability.

I have every other weekend and 3 hours wed with kids which I believe you first got.

I dont think we can file temp orders now until this is quashed.

But I hope we can appoint a GAL still. She is really messing their minds with the alienation tactics.

Although I am going through a storm right now and I miss my kids terribly, and worry what she is doing and saying to them.

Sitting in the evening peacefully knowing I don't have to live with her again is incredible.

I don't need to walk on egg shells. I am not going to get yelled at, or accused of things out of the blue, or bossed around and critized, insulted and guilted into doing what she wants.

I AM OUT. It is a massive relief. I have my freedom back. I almost feel my nervous system calming. (Other than the anxiousness of having to defend myself in this TPO!)

Did you ask your lawyer if you should do what I did, I filed my counter TRO?  Maybe L will say that's not necessary, but right now there's risk only you will be scrutinzed to determine whether your an abuser or not, while no one scrutinizes her.

Yes, my temp order was a 72 hour alternate weekend with a 3 hour evening in between.  That in itself was one issue, what made it worse was that No ONE, not even my own lawyer, ever tried to tweak it.  After all, who cares, it was only temporary, right?  Um, except in my case the divorce took excruciating two years.  My ex had a very favorable temp order so she strung out the divorce as long as she could!  son was still 3yo when separating, 6yo when it was final.

What you want to avoid is the TRO parenting simply morphing into a temp order because what exists now 'works' so why bother changing it?  That's the nonsense you'll face when the time comes.

I have very much flagged status quo should not be set to my attorney. I cant go into details incase somehow she works this out. But it is actively being worked. What I will say is I dont think 5 weeks is enough to set status quo when I have compelling evidence to be presented the children are in harms way. I hope I am right. My attorney seems unphased by any of this he is very calming. Not sure if this is good or bad. Like he knows exactly how to deal with this, or its not his life...

I wish i could say more and be specific just cant risk it

I guess I am terrified she turns up to the hearing with crocodile tears and photos of bruises she did to herself. I have so much evidence of lies all over her statements but is that enough if she turns up crying and playing the poor victim?. I really wish i could be more specific but dont want to give her a heads up if she reads here. Do commisioners air on the side of the women? Cos if they get it wrong the consequences are high.

If this goes permanant i guess i can kiss citizenship away and not be able to sell my house for years as other concerns beyond the kids . I cant believe anyone can be this cruel. I think she was also after free legal aid as an aledged victim of dv.

just want you to be prepared. My ex-gf showed up to court with her mother, who lied and said she had bruises during the relationship. No photos, no evidence, just her and her mother both lying. So yes this is entirely possible.

Thanks were they believed? Did you end up with a permanant PO?

Im worried she hurt herself and maybe took photos as I noticed bruises in weird places and it had nothing to do with me.

She has said there was one incident in the report which was after i filed and no doubt a deliberate attempt to farbricate evidence.

You can state the purported/alleged incident's timing occurred after you filed, that it was manufactured to make you look worse than her.  If there were reported incidents before you filed then it would appear more credible.

Did she file this as a response to the divorce filing or did she file in a separate court?


No one can assure you this will be viewed as sour grapes or retaliation or posturing as her being the victim.  It is common enough that the court ought not be too gullible for her crocodile tears.

My ex did make many allegations in the early years after our separation.  All eventually ended up as wimpy "unsubstantiated".  ("Unfounded" would have been a stronger outcome but officialdom prefers passive outcomes.)  I did face a complaint during my divorce.  It was after our mutual TPOs ended.  Hers was withdrawn, mine was dismissed.  (All this was after separation but before I filed for divorce.)  It's been so many years my memory fails me but I think the trigger for her to file for another was when I attended the congregation's most important religious evening of the year.  She was on the left side, I was further back on the right side, not in clear view of each other.  So I think the claim was stalking?

Anyway, my lawyer thought it was serious enough to settle.  However, he made sure the details were to my advantage.  Here's one of the posts, turns out it was triggered by a different claim, there were so many.


I will add here how important it is never state you want her back.  Otherwise she or her lawyer could claim you want her back under your control.  Yes, you were the one to file for divorce, you wanted out, but still you have to be careful in all you state.

This is less likely, but she might at some point tell you she'll drop the claim if you cancel the divorce.  In other words, she wants you back.  (This is where recording all future interactions with her is so vital.)  In any such scenario, your lawyer would require her to do more than simply withdraw her claim, she would have to state it was untrue.  I think.

Also, be aware that incidents more than six months before than the divorce filing date are usually considered too old (legal term is "stale") to impact the case.

Its the same Judge same District so I assume same court, not sure if the commissioner is the same as the commissioner is not listed on the divorce filing.

What really worries me is this impacts status quo as we haven't done temp orders. And also could impact immigration status. SO settling maybe better. Even if I feel I have unsumoutable evidence. You can't rule out a judge not wanting to look bad if they get it wrong.
You don't have to tell me that! I wouldn't have to even think to answer that. No chance.
I have audio of her telling the kids she doesn't want a divorce, its me that does. While filing for a TPO.

Also, be aware that incidents more than six months before than the divorce filing date are usually considered too old (legal term is "stale") to impact the case.
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>>Did she file this as a response to the divorce filing or did she file in a separate court?

To clarify the TPO was requested in the same district same judge as the divorce, but was granted by a different judge/commissioner in same district.

The case number of the TPO is different to the case number of my petition.

How does this matter? I am interested

The reason I asked is because my ex's harassment claim was in a different court - not divorce court - and by a different judge.  So that judge wasn't tasked with handling the divorce and custody/parenting issues.  He could have ruled based on totally different concerns.

And of  courts are happy when there's a settlement... it means the court doesn't have to bother making a ruling, the deal is set before the court and all they have to do is peruse it and rubber stamp it.

As strange as it sounds, most of our divorce cases settle, well, eventually.  Of course, things are dicey at the early stages.  Mediation usually fails because it's near the start of the divorce process and the disordered ex is far too entitled and demanding for real negotiation to occur.

So I'm certainly not recommending you jump for a settlement.  Each case is a little different and that's why you have a lawyer to guide you, hopefully an experienced and proactive one.

Thanks. I just am scared if I was to settle it would be minimum parent time, maybe setting status quo.

Also I really think she is going for free legal aid for DV cases, I am fearful she will try and push for it to be permanant so she can get the free lawyers.

Likely there will be a continuance or two (delays to another date) before you really have to worry whether to settle or not.

BEWARE of the other side proposing you agree to take "Anger management" classes.  Often this sounds innocent but it makes you appear to need such classes.  It too could result in possibly reducing parenting.

Therefore I would be leery of any agreement that is (or looks like) admission of guilt even though the complaint might be plead down.

Also, be aware that you have a right not to explain yourself.  My lawyer said his first task was to sit on his new clients to they wouldn't blab and make his job even harder.  For example, maybe it's okay to say she was blocking your exit from the bathroom.  She shouldn't do that.  But then stop.  If you exited and she may or may not have hurt herself, you can't comment on that.  Get the concept?  Be careful not to get tripped up.

Oh really does it not get dealt with in the first hearing? I thought they either decide to dismiss or make it permanent in the hearing?

Don't you have advice and general overview from your lawyer?

I'm not saying some sort of decision, such as a temp order to stay away from her, can't be reached by the judge, but if you refuse to "admit guilt" then another date may have to be added to the court's docket.

Correction:  If they want to make an order, then ask that it be (1) each person stays away from the other and (2) the children are not included in the adult dispute.  Such wording would minimize risk of her assumed the victim and you assumed the perpetrator.  As weird as it sounds, adult behaviors are not always automatically extended to parenting expectations.  (For example, my ex was initially arrested for Threat of DV in municipal court yet a few days later over at family court my ex was gifted temp custody and majority parenting time that persisted until the end of the divorce.)

If your lawyer won't help and represent you, then I'm seriously concerned your lawyer lacks experience in our sort of protrated cases.  Will your lawyer at the very least appear with you at your scheduled hearing?

We typically need more than a forms-filing lawyer.  Court and trial experience is better.

One of her complaints is she's worried you'll use firearms?  Be sure to bring proof to the court appearance that you don't have possession of or any access to any firearms.  Ponder with your lawyer whether the advance arrangements you made for firearms will be satisfactory in the court's eyes.  Simply parking them with a friend may not be enough to nix her "fear" posturing.  Ponder whether there is a better way to place them in some sort of "escrow" or safekeeping for the duration of the divorce.

We haven't talked about the process yet, we have meetings this week.
But I am already under a temp order. I cant go near the house and am on minimum parent time until the hearing. My understanding at the hearing they can listen to ourside too, and then decide whether to dismiss or make it permanant. Or my attorney did say something about an evidentual hearing.

She said I hurt the children aswell as her, so they were added to the the temp protection order. Obviously there is no evidence as it doesn't happen, much as she has tried to coach them to report me to her therapist for made up things.
He is representing me. When I interviewed I asked if he was a negotiator or litigator. He said he did both. He handles TPOs, temp order hearings etc. He just seems busy, he is often at hearings and court in the mornings.
Good idea thanks!

Do you have a journal? Document when and what you did with your firearm (legally where you reside), and her comments, dated and entries signed by you. I'm thinking red flag laws though the concern isn't you losing it, but demonstrating responsibility given the situation.

This post will focus on the children.  Her taking the kids to her therapist is not the way CPS investigators would do their interviews.  I previously wrote:

I'll assume the children don't have their own therapist?  Determining whether CPS has already interviewed the children in a neutral setting is important.  Her stating the children were abused ought to have triggered a referral to CPS.  Did that happen?  Assuming CPS did their job well - my CPS stood up in court and stated they had "no concerns" about me and therefore the children were excluded from my ex's TPO - you too can ask the court to exclude your children from the case for a similar reason.

Here's an idea... this might be a good time for the court to agree the children need their own counselors.  Okay, the youngest may still be too young, but your older child ought to be 2-3 grade age, definitely of an age to benefit from experienced counseling and hopefully limiting parental alienation.

One goal would be to ensure your ex doesn't choose a gullible, inexperienced counselor.

Also, arrange your work schedule so you can transport your child to and from sessions at least half the time.  In case you didn't know, sessions are nearly an hour long and usually start and end with the counselor including you for insights and observations.

Some of this can't be done in one hearing but you get get the gist of what your goals can include.  Still to be discovered is whether CPS got involved.  In my case, CPS had interviewed me by phone and likely interviewed my 3 year old, which resulted in them saying they had "no concerns" about me at that very first hearing and he was excluded from her TPO case.

And I was quite willing to agree to the terms of staying away from her - as long as she would stay away from me.  :(

Thanks! And Sorry I was mistaken. They requested the kids to be added to the TPO with no visitation, but the judge refused this or at least didn't add them to the order, and gave me some custody. So the Judge must have deemed the evidence uncredible, or insufficient. As there was none...Frankly there was no evidence of anything. She just wanted me out of the house, and I refused to go without a plan for the kids. I can update a few more details probably tomorrow after something happens. Too paranoid to share more till after the fact.

I can take them to therapy every other week.

So the other side offered to dismiss the TPO against me instead adding a mutual restraining order. We had evidence to go that showed she lied to get the TPO we didnt use it in the end. It was dismissed at the hearing. So she cant go near me which is exactly what I want. I have kids 6 nights in 14. So a pretty good start. She is nuts though. Even today when we were negotiating the settlement she submitted a photo of a broken phone she said I broke in March. Does she not realise her saying I broke her phone and taking a photo of it does not show I did it! (As I didnt). She really does exist in crazy town.

She also likes to paint a false story that I drink too much. So not only was the parties cant drink before or aftet having the kids, she had them add or be hungover. Its almost amusing. How do you legally classify hungover? How exactly would she report me if I was when we dont speak and do curb side pickup. She just can't stop woth trying to control me. Not that I will be drinking or getting hungover but she just shows her self to be so controlling and crazy.

But anyway a good day. Commisioner obviously knows she made the whole thing up otherwise if she was really terrified for her life why drop it so easily!

As we speculated, ex was upset by the divorce and tried to make you look bad, possibly to make you look worse than her.  Sounds like your initiation to court events turned out okay.  It's a marathon more than a sprint.

Stick to your new boundaries.

Yes I think thats totally it. Now we have a GAL appointed.

Excellent progress with a GAL involved. Your sync probably will NOT respond well to an objective third party not tied to her control.

Oh she is going to hate it. Unless she can recruit the GAL to her negative team. So far she has three "witnesses" willing to go on the record about my behavior. Two I have never met, the third stayed in our house and I have known for years and was texting me friendly messages right up till i filed for divorce! But the facts are I dont think courts care about friends reporting what soon to be ex has been telling them. They need facts and evidence. I love operating in a world of hard facts. She likes a world where she can make it up based on her feelings. I like to think courts prefer facts.

I recall one time my ex went into a hearing and said she had a statement from someone and the magistrate, already upset because the cases were stacking up that day, did agree when my lawyer objected saying he couldn't question a statement.

As for your mutual friend, it seems she was more your ex's friend than yours, if that is the case.  It happens.  When the going gets tough you find out who your real friends are.

Remember, the GAL ought to be focused on your children's best outcome.  Hopefully the GAL will approach the assignment with open eyes and mind.  GAL should want to see each parent's relationship with the kids, real life not posed.

While GAL may benefit learning what the kids have been exposed to, such as rants and rages, the overall home environment will mean a lot.  GAL will focus on the kids and parenting, not the adult discord.  You do similarly.

Thanks FD.

One thing I am struggling with . Her father tells me it was all the attorneys fault the TPO, she didn't want it. Personally I think that is her failing to take responsibility and trying to save face with her father who I have always had a good relationship with , probably better than hers and his!

But what if its true. The issue is she is saying that while sending silly bits of hearsay evidence into court, and spending a fortune on credit cards I pay for! All while there is an injunction so I can't stop the spending, and I was removed from the house so have to pay rent and the mortgage.

The only option is temp orders. If I go in with what I am planning she will be badly triggered, but it seems from past experience she says one thing and does the other. So if I go in with soft temp orders without naming abuse, I am sure she will come in aggressive. But what if she doesn't , what if I am just escalating things.

I just want this done quickly, but I guess I need to look at the facts. She refused mediation multiple times, asked for money to mediate then didnt use it for mediaton and attacked me with an awful response to my pretty fair divorce petition, and then had police remove me from my house with a proctive order, and now continues to make little jabs by text when it is supposed to just be for arranging pickup and drop off...

Why is it I keep wanting to give the benefit of the doubt. I guess I just want to minimize trauma, and stop paying attorneys so much to hype it up.

I just wish there was someway to deescalate...

CP,
If I were in your position I would stick to the original plan and avoid the interference from her dad. You might think your eel with him is significant enough to consider his judgement or advise but it’s all manipulation. Your ex is using emotional blackmail through her dad to alter your plans.
At this stage the benefit of a doubt is not your friend. I’d rather give a heavy hand to the actions now and than regret being too soft.

The more you can prove to yourself that you can stick to your plans the better the outcome.
Is there anyway you can cancel the credit card of place restrictions on it?
Any other means such as reporting it lost or requesting a hold on its use? Or is that against your TPO. She’s clearly abusing you financially now. Protect yourself by not wavering from your initial position.

*eel - relalationship*. Typo

Sometimes deescalation is just not an option.  The sniping and worse will likely happen anyway.  Often too holding back of some strategies can - counterintuitively - invite more obstruction.

One good measure of what to set aside - or not - is whether that omission will harm your position as an involved parent.  Parenting ought to be at the top of your priority list.