BPDFamily.com

Hi I am new to this forum, very glad to have found it!

I have an 11 year old with my ex, who has no formal diagnosis but has strong traits of NPD and BPD. Our history and current situation is very complicated and hard to summarize, so I'll do my best to paint a picture of things without getting into the weeds, and then ask my specific advice question
 
My ex, (I’ll call them X), moved to a remote community a 3 hour flight north of where we live a few months ago to be with their partner who got a job there. This is the second time they have moved away from our daughter “D” - the first being when she was 5 years old and they moved across the country, coming back for visits and a few unsuccessful stints living here.
Each time they come back, they demand 50/50 custody and accuse me of kidnapping and alienation when our daughter expresses fear of sleeping at their place. (For a lot of reasons we don't have any legal separation agreement, which I am about to change)

It has taken me years of weekly therapy to understand what I got caught up in. X is incredibly magnetic and can be warm and funny and it feels amazing to be in their light. And one of their  ‘survival talents’ is to draw people into their powerful, painful stories of victimhood, and to use a lot of the language of accountability without ever changing behaviour.

Just one of many example of this;  during a psych intake process for our kid (who was self harming), X told social workers they are bipolar, (untrue) and struggle with chronic pain (true) and deeply regret how their behaviour affects our kid (maybe true?) - I guess because bipolar is less stigmatized and more of a hero’s ailment (or something??) they used that story to paint me as ableist and abusive.  (Something they call me when I refuse to let them yell at me in front of our kid, or take our kid away from seeing them self harm)
This has sort of worked with the social workers, has alienated me from quite a few people in our small LGBT community, and gives X cover that they are meaningfully “working on their PLEASE READ (https://bpdfamily.com/safe-site.htm)” .
It doesn’t help that a lot of their struggles ARE structural/outside of their control - like the chronic pain, history of abuse, anti-lgbt discrimination, and little family support or financial resources. It also doesn’t help that I was their greatest defender and enabler for so many years.

But recently, more people who are close to both of us have seen the full spectrum of behaviours and understand just how bad it actually is.  That community validation for me, plus distance and time (and therapy!!) has helped me build a fairly solid emotional boundary, and I know my job is to give our kid as much security and solid love as possible.

Which leads me to my question. Up until now, I have helped support D as best I can, because she misses X and WANTS to be with them, even though equally afraid. She often feels their sadness and pain more than her own, and that awful mix of fear and obligation. I have tried my best to validate her feelings without adding to the anxiety.
X can also be really fun, and the two of them have genetic connection and interests in common that I don’t have (X is the birth parent).
And up until recently, X’s hostility and extreme anger has been reserved for me and anyone else they are disappointed by, but not our kid directly.

But a few days ago, D was scheduled to get on a plane alone to fly into this remote community to visit X for a week, knowing no one else except their partner, who they've of course been fighting like crazy with.
And things had been ramping up badly (X recently decided it was “time to tell D that I kidnapped her, and that I get in the way of their plans etc”) and when D tried to call to ask some questions/get some reassurance about what the visit would be like, instead of answering and trying to help, X expressed irritation and anger at being asked.

D was desperate to not go, so I told her she didn’t have to, and wrote to tell X. I also offered them money to come visit D here instead

(In the lead up to this, I got solid legal advice, knowing that it might come to this and that I wouldn't force D onto the plane, so I am secure in that part of the decision)

But today, X (and their partner) have been messaging D all day, telling her how badly she has hurt them both, and demanding she call to explain. (And harassing me of course)

And this is where we are in new territory:
If/when that call happens, this will be D’s first time experiencing the direct rejection rage from X - my immediate instinct is to try to soften/protect her from it somehow, but A) I don’t even know how to in this case and B) even if I could, would it just be prolonging some 'truth' or gaslighting her? Is it ‘useful’ for D to feel the full wrath at age 11?
How do I help her through this? My heart is breaking for her.

It never gets easy reading how hard these personalities are on our kids. I'm so sorry you are bearing witness to this, and that your D11 has to work through this as part of her childhood.

We often say here that there are two battles. One is legal and the other is for the hearts and minds of our kids. It's very easy to start erasing ourselves in these relationships in order to fulfill the needs of a person with what seem like bottomless needs. For kids, it's doubly challenging. It's great that you have a T because it's not easy to understand what our kids need if we aren't paying attention to it in ourselves.


I would get in touch with how you feel when X rages at you.

What are you learning in therapy to help you understand what goes on in these moments?

If D11 were a young woman dating and had a partner who spoke to her like that, what advice would you give her after a phone call like that?

It isn't about this one moment, it's about her trusting how she feels. How does her body respond? What are her instincts? It is sooo hard for us as parents to let our kids sit in the sadness but sometimes, at least for me, I was moving my son through his feelings so quickly it was almost like I was teaching him to be nervous about those feelings. You don't want that.

But it's best if both of you are in therapy so you aren't riding solo, trying to heal yourself while helping her heal and become resilient.

Does T have a therapist?

There are a handful of helpful books. Don't Alienate the Kids by Bill Eddy really helped me. And Richard Warshak's Divorce Poison. You can also find quite a bit of material by Dr. Craig Childress about jujitsu parenting that is helpful if your ex begins to engage in parental alienation behaviors, especially with professionals.

I think if you can prevent the call from happening, that's appropriate. But to be candid, even if you stop this one from happening, there will be others. Be careful, too, that you don't tell D11 that X loves her. Being raged at and then told that person loves you is a very toxic message that led many of us into these relationships in the first place. D11 may not feel loved by X and it's important that she works that out on her own. My son's therapist told me it was obviously not ideal for a parent to fail at parenting, but that it was preferable for my son to accept this than try to win his father over for decades, to no avail.

Radically accepting a parent for who they are is not what we want for our kids but believing they are someone they aren't is a hell unto itself.

One of the BPD behaviors is to react badly when a child begins to show separation from the BPD parent -- separate thinking, separate opinions, individual I on of any kind. The pwBPD sees the child as an extension of themselves and resist the child's individuation. And of course, you want your D to successfully embrace her own identity.

My step daughters experienced this with their mother, who is undiagnosed BPD/NPD. My husband was with her for many years but will say that their tween and teen years nearly broke him.

A therapist would be a wonderful support for your D. Of course she loves X. A good T can help her understand and work out the best way for D to love X without compromising her own needs.

My youngest stepdaughter came through it. She learned about boundaries in her twenties, after her mother overreaching in her parenting of the first grandchild. That's when I married her father and together we were able to support her through separating from her mother's control (physically and emotionally) and helping with boundaries.

What you are doing for your D now is crucial. You sure don't want her to still be figuring this out in her twenties.

Both LnL and Gagrl mentioned that D11 could have her own therapist too.  Here in peer support we encourage that the children too can benefit from regular therapy sessions as issues often arrive at unpredictable times.

I recall too that my divorce lawyer assured me "Courts love counseling!"  So even if your X would oppose the idea of counseling, know that you are supported by the legal precedents.

I feel that what is particularly devastating to D11 is that even in phone calls she would feel so crushed and devastated when faced with such aggressive pressuring.  My thought is that D11 should not be alone with such calls.  Also, she should know and be assured that if it becomes too much for her that she can end the call.

Remember that though D11 is a tween, she is still a child and has a lot of growing to do before she is a mature adult.  She's not ready for these almost-adult confrontations.  The hardest thing is for her to feel alone, the FOG can be so intense.

FOG = Fear, Obligation, Guilt

It may be impractical right now since it seems she doesn't have a therapist now, but she could even have calls of that sort while with the therapist.

Oh my gosh thank you all for such thoughtful and loving advice.

It totally makes sense to understand this new phase as triggered by D growing and separating.

The call happened today, and it was awful, but in some ways better than I expected -
D and I had a long preparatory conversation beforehand, and we agreed that I would sit and listen outside the door (it was a video chat) so that she didn't feel alone. I assured her she could hang up whenever she wanted, and we had a signal for me to ring the doorbell so she could leave the room if she wanted to take a break or get advice.
X and their partner were in full guilt "we're not mad just why did you lie/hurt us" mode, and kept demanding an answer from D who just said she was sorry over and over. Some tidbits include that she was told I brainwashed her, and my separation anxiety makes her not want to do things..
Hearing that I realized I have been so worried that X would cause D to question her safety in our home, and her reality in general -  But after the phonecall she cried in my arms for a long time and then expressed anger at X for accusing her of lying, and of telling their own lies. It's still awful, but at least she recognized some of the bull*** and it made her mad.

I have also assured her that X's words don't hurt me any more - because the last thing I want for her is to become protective of me!

 I agree a therapist for D is a great idea. She had a lovely one this year where she learned some excellent tools for anxiety and boundaries, but yesterday she revealed that she never told the therapist how afraid she always felt when with X. (this therapist was part of the social work team working under X's false bipolar narrative, but I'm not sure how relevant that is. )

I just saw that there is a support group for kids w PBDparents - online but local that I will look into while looking for better therapist connection.

What a relief that's over.

It sounds like a neutral therapist might help D11 open up and work through her feelings. With middle school coming up she may start to work out the script she has with X in friendships and a therapist can be really helpful there.

If its ok to ask, what made you feel the need to reassure D11 that X doesn't hurt your feelings?

That's a good question! I think that I was reacting to hearing X speak badly about me to to D for the first time - and knowing her, I worried that she would feel guilty about MY experience of X on top of everything else. So I wanted to assure her that X's words don't hurt me.

But typing this out I realize a better message is that I am an adult and can handle my own feelings, and that she is not responsible for them, I'll be ok etc.

So I should work on a more coherent strategy in terms of talking about my own experience of X, when it comes up.

When school reopens soon, she may wish to brief her school counselor.  They're not just there to schedule classes, likely they're available every school day.

Another response that's rooted more in validation would be:

D11: X says you have two horns and a forked tail.
Parkis: D11, I'm so sad you had to hear that. How did you feel when X said that?

We really make a big difference in their emotional resilience when we show them we're able to guide them to their feelings and show them they matter, then help them find language to describe what it feels like. Trauma can knock us out of our bodies so if she can't say how she feels, maybe she can describe what her body feels like.

The time to draw things back to us can come right away or wait a beat.

Parkis: You know, I was thinking about what you shared, how X said something that made you feel _________. I want you to know that even when things hurt my feelings I know how to manage them and work through them, just like you're learning to do.

I mean, talk to a child psychologist to see what's best but in general, the more you can get D11 to understand you not only care how she feels, you trust she can experience those emotions, the less she's likely to stuff them and develop unhealthy coping mechanisms.

And I agree with FD. What do you think about reaching out to D11's counselor or family specialist before the school year begins?