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Just a new thread that explores a question by crazyhorse. He and I both have this inner conflict of knowing that is not healthy or good to go back to or even talk to our exBPD's. But the urge and pain inside of us wants to see and talk to them. I was hoping some of you veterans would elaborate on this conflict inside of yourselves, and if and when it subsided. Maybe the thought processes that brought you through it all. Part of getting through it is realizing the end result. I think there are several out here that would benefit from the veterans experiences. Thank you.

There are things that you miss when you leave somebody, BPD or not.  And often the "goodness" of the BPD (when they were good) intensifies that.  I remember breaking up with a man (not BPD) when I was 28.  We'd been together for three years.  About a month after we broke up, I ventured forth into the dating world and got very burned.. I met a man I really liked, had a great weekend with him... then I never heard from him again.  Turned out he had a girlfriend and they had just had a fight and got back together.  I remember telling one of my friends:  "I'm going to call x back up and get back together with him."  Of course, I knew that didn't make any sense, as the problems between x and I were there and they weren't going to go away.  We broke up for some very good reasons.

After a few more months, I had no interest in getting back with him. 

Now most BPD relationships are alternatively very "good" and very "bad" due to the splitting.  When we split up, we remember the good stuff, and the bad stuff tends to filter down into the far reaches of our memory.  You aren't missing her lousy behaviors; you are missing her good behaviors, and you are missing what it means to be a partner to somebody.  You are idealizing her... and this is why you have such a conflict.

Joanna...it is clear that I having been doing exactly that. Thank you for helping me see that..

I cant help but wonder why it is that we do this? Why cant the bad times come to the forefront? Why is it that we see the little good, and never the lotta bad? It never ceases to amaze me.

So very difficult.   So many times I wanted to talk to , touch, feel or just see my ex.  It was so very painful to have to set that part of my life aside and move on.  It was devasting.   BUT>>>>>>>>

You know in your heart, though you love her/him, miss them., that staying with them would destroy you. That being with them was unhealthy.  they are unhealthy.  The only way to get through is to give it time and to have no contact.  Holding on to that idealization is detrimental.  You have to believe in yourself, knowing that you need to take care of yourself and that being with this person is toxic. Just remember the horrors and look to a life of calm and peace.   You will make it.  Just take one day at a time and soon it will months down the road.   9 mos of NC.   I am better.  I am getting out of OZ.  You will be too.   LD

I was in such conflict, wanting to reconcile, holding the torch for my poor alcoholic husband.  I too focused on the past good times. 

When I finally agreed to the divorce he SAID he wanted he painted me black.  His fear of abandonment kicked into overdrive.  As it turns out, it wasn't that he wanted a divorce, he just didn't want to be married.

He has treated me FAR worse since I filed for divorce than he ever did during last years of our marriage.  For the first time I feel afraid

of him and his unpredictability.  He changed so much in my eyes, that I would never want him or take him back and he knows this. 

I feel kind of sorry for him because he "lost" my devotion to him rather rapidly.  I wish my fear of him would turn into "indifference".  My fearful feelings of him are far more difficult to deal with that my "longing/hopeful" feelings for him.  LC is the only answer (NC if you have no mutual children).

BPDummy,

This is an excellent thing to spend time thinking about for it is in understanding this (WHY) that we are able to turn the corner.  I wish I could tell you exactly how.  For me...I am going to trust the age old adage that I am the only person that will bring true inner peace to my life (not her or anyone else)   Although I REALLY believe its that simple, acceptance and practice of it is not overnight.

So as I tell myself, one day at a time.  The answers are really inside of us all.

I know that sounds so simple...and I think that is also good.  Thinking back...having our mind locked up in a BPD relationship, creates so much confusion and pain.  And THAT isn't simple.  I CAN tell you that I have grieved 3 XBPDs, this is my 4th (slow learner) and that I have not even the slightest twinge of regret or do I miss the previous ones.  It doesn't make the current pain go away however, it does reinforce that I am responsible for my own happiness, not them.

Hope you had a nice BDAY...Think of how nice it will be next year! 

Hey guys …

Have ya ever tried to catch a bus standin between the stops?

                                               

I can tell ya with a voice of experience – You can wave like hell – frantic with desire to board that bus – but so long as youre standin between the stops –  you aint goin NOWHERE on a bus …

Once the full bus has passed, ya stand there feelin - 

so lost (“Well - Now what?”)

so deserted (“Where is everybody?)

and yes – even a tad jealous (“How did all those folks get on that bus?)

Nope – Ifn ya wanna catch a bus – Ya gotta move … to one stop or the other … But so long as you stay put, the bus will continue to pass you by …

I think our healing goes through a similar conflict / challenge / cycle / (whateveryawannacallit) …

We know we must “move” in order to heal … But I think sometimes we get stuck in that very dangerous place of “What ifs …” and “Maybe now …” or the real zinger, “There must have been something else I could have done …” and then finally, thankfully, it comes to, “Im so tired of this consuming me – I surrender - Im ready to move forward with my life, whatever shape and form that may be …”

<sigh>

I agree with John – I think YOUR answers of moving forward – healing - lie within YOU …

And …

I think OUR “moving” – healing – is done with Time ...

Giving time, Time …

(Believe me – I couldnt STAAAAND that answer when “Nookie Veterans” would offer those words of wisdom to this question!  Made me grind my teeth!  Drove me nuts!  LOL …    )

But ya know what?

Its true …

And for EACH and EVERY ONE of us, the road to healing and wholeness will be different …

For me – Along with the healing salve of Time, I began to find my courage to live again in a variety of ways:

Walking and Dancing – MOVING my body …

Continuing Therapy – MOVING my awareness, understanding and acceptance of mySELF  (Id already done enough work on “him”) – and changing those things within myself that were less than desirable and worthy of changing (still workin on those   :)  ) …

Writing and Reading – MOVING my brain …

Playing the Piano (for hours on end) – MOVING my talents and my gifts …

Visiting with Family and Friends that I had neglected, asking forgiveness – MOVING my heart …

I think for each one of us, the “bus stops” will be different – Each bus headed in a different direction … But it is my hope that our final destination will be the same – Healing, Wholeness, and An Embraceable Future …

Hope that helps …

Love to you –

Melanie

whoa john.. you been with 4 different BPD people? or am I just reading this wrong?

whoa john.. you been with 4 different BPD people? or am I just reading this wrong?"

No, you are correct.  Its a pattern.  All of them had a physical quality or charm that attracted me initially.  When there was obvious trouble brewing I was becoming addicted to the attention; I did not believe my inner or higher self that knew better.  And this is the issue that I am taking time to resolve now.  That is getting to know me and becoming the person that I wanted these exes to be.  I have no anger towards them.  In my own way I still care for them (from afar)

I made the mistake of thinking I was responsible in some way for making those relationships work or that staying was the only choice I had.  And you know what, to stay on that path would keep me firmly planted n dysfunction.  This is "the inner conflict" that many of us face.  And I believe it is as simple as learning that we are responsible for our own happiness, that we have the choice and ability to give ourselves the best life possible and that we are deserving of the best life has to offer.  I am getting there and know that discipline is the only way that I don't end of there again...

wow.. I am sorry that you have had to go through that.. but how can you be so sure that they are BPD.. I have that problem as well.. I encounter someone.. they have a tendency to have some of the traits and I get scared.. but I'm not a certified therapist and I don't think I can judge them so..

I am in no way doubting you john.. but how do you meet these girls.. I've been in my fair share of relationships and this is the first girl that I had to actually go to therapy in order to make sense of the nightmare/confusion that I went through during and after the relationship..

I guess I can use BPD as an excuse for every relationship not working out.. but my uxbpgf was literally text book.. with the physical and emotional abuse.. and the constant black/white.. well you get the picture.. I've only encountered one, and I am barely recovering... but darn 4? how do you do it? you are one strong person.. I think I would literally die if I encountered another BPD..

Oneday,

I am no stronger than anyone else here...probably have had less self-esteem and sense of self = more willing to accept worse behavior.

I'm not going to get too hung up on trying to diagnose my exes one by one.  The bottom line is that the pattern of chosing and staying in unhealthy relationships, is one that I have gotten MYSELF into.  When you have no clue of PDs and haven't taken responsibility of caring for your "self" it can happen.   I only bring it up to keep reminding myself where my focus needs to be...I will never blame them for what I accepted...While I get mad and frustrated with her, making her or them the problem, will just line me up for number 5.

I knew enough to get out however, the first person that showed an interest that I was attracted to...I would settle down with.   Its not really that much different than someone who has been with the same one for 10 or 12 years.  I have just made a series of bad decisions. How do I know? The last one, was textbook NPD...but very hard to tell from the outside... one b4 her...BPD...I guess I was convinced when she put a cigarette out on her wrist when I told her I was leaving.  So, while I am no analyst, I am not naive enough to believe that they, I or our relationship was healthy.  Again focusing on them, their diagnosis, what they did, is no longer the issue...I am just saying in connection with this thread that I obviously have that inner conflict.

I really need to take the focus off of them as I don't want to pity myself...I have no desire to stay ensnarled with how bad they hurt me or how bad I had it with them...That is another dead end that I have run into a gazillion times...I DO appreciate your post...I am relating to the inner conflict here...when you "know better" but the urge is present...

Wow, gald we're talking about Inner Conflict.
True. True. I'm a "gonner" because of it.

This inner conflict's been going on for years; no one to share this topic with years ago when it began, and it just doesn't stop for me.  I don't have true "friends", plus family and T think I'm more of an "abused woman" snyndrome, so only know acquaintances.

Is it the "familiarity" we are in conflict over and easily drawn in?

and is a low-functioning uNPBh fairly safe to live with while I'm now also "lacking" much of myself?

( starting over at age 59)

My Conflict Now:

Is it better (if I'm completely brainwashed) to leave the BP while in a post-trauma condition myself and, let's say, continue to make a move into a rented room of an acquaintence?

Or could it be okay to just totally ignore my uNPh and accept a life w/o intimacy, but live my (married) life by simply coming and going frequently out of his presence  as I please?

see, i can't make sense anymore  :P In other words, even in a detrimental state of mind, is it safer for a non to discontinue living with a (familiar) uNBP over renting a room from an acquaintance JUST for the sake of escaping?

help me sort this "reality" choice while I'm brain-boggled?

thanks

Here is an alternative suggestion to getting over the "urge and pain" to see and talk to them again. It is a risky gamble, but man, can it pay off in ending the longing!

Go back. Go back to your lover. Savour her hair and the feel of her skin against yours, the glow in her eyes as she whispers your praises. Inhale it and enjoy it. But be prepared. In the height of your self adoration, she (he) will do it again. It will be so disgusting this time, so revealing that you will finally realize that she is SICK and will always be so.

I went in for the last re-engagement, full of hope yet cautious. Didn't move in with him but started seeing him again. He blew it as he had done before. Cheated during the most beautiful reconnection. That was worth five tickets in getting off the roller coaster. I am so glad I did it! I know what I am espousing goes against the grain of all NC wisdom, but I let him show me what a true unconscionable human being he was.

Good luck. I hope you get over your pain.

Wil

I didn't read all the replies so sorry if I'm being redundant.

I think almost all of us can relate to craving our exbps. Like you said, we know that they are bad for us, they hurt us and that nothing good can come from being with them again. It makes us feel sick with ourselves when we realize that we want somebody that hurts us.

I don't know for sure why this is but I think there are a couple of things going on. The first one being the addiction. When the bp goes away the non has lost their drug and wants it back. I smoke (filthy habit I know) and I know smoking is very bad for me, it will hurt me and nothing good comes from smoking. But you better believe that if my smokes went away and I couldn't get anymore I would miss those cigarrettes from the bottom of my heart. The other thing going on I think is a skewed perception. When coming out of a bp relationship I don't think we see things as they truly are. The bp gives the illusion that they have something great to offer and when it ends we feel like we somehow missed out. While with the bp it always felt like we were so close to having our dreams come true but we could never quite reach it. Because we weren't good enough, not trying hard enough or doing enough (in the mind of the bp and therefore in our minds too) it was always just that little bit out of our grasp. When the relationship ends it feels like our dream dies too, like now there is nothing left to hope for. Of course it is very very painful to let go of dreams and hopes.  It takes a good while to realize that there never was a possiblity of obtaining that dream and that we were chasing a mirage. There is no pot of gold and there never was. When I was first out I truly felt like I had been banished to some dark place. It was as if my exbp was at some grand and spectacular ball and I wasn't allowed to attend. I was left out in the cold, forgotten and dejected, while the party was still going on without me. Now I realize that the only party my ex had going on was a big ole pity party and I don't even want to be on the guest list anymore.

I guess the best way to overcome the longing is to stay focused on the facts of your bp relationship. Make yourself remember how shtty it made you feel, how much pain there was and how lost you felt much of the time. Write it all down and read it 50 times a day if you have to. Don't let yourself dwell on the very rare times of happiness but when those memories do force their way in remind yourself that even the happy times were awash in mental illness. Being white is just the shinier side of the splitting coin. I know that when your in the clutches of craving your exbp it's very difficult to reason those cravings away. But I promise you that one day you will look back on this time and go WTH was I thinking? Why did i ever think I needed that crap back? Hang in there, your day is coming.

Yes, I liked what you said about chasing the mirage and feeling that we were missing out on the party.  It's hard to let go of the promise of the pot of gold. 

I found myself discussing with my daughter the thought that things might have been different had I kept the house more organized, uncluttered.  "but you're not a housewife type, you had a career", she said.  (Such clarity from a soon to be 16 yo and YES I know that I shouldn't be talking about this stuff with her.)  I really don't believe these thoughts but every now and then they pop up and torment me, telling me that I missed my approach to the pot of gold.

OMG, the expectations I had for  him when the reality really was there the past few years that he was unable to step up to the plate.  There is a saying..."an expectation is a preconceived resentment".  The pain is great but now there are more small pockets of peace and freedom.  There are longer spaces between my bouts of despair.

I understand what you guys are going through.

If they handed out scores here I would have been an F------- and then some.

I actually suffered for a couple of years right here with still wanting that same thing till I finally got it. I actually in one year spent over $3000.00 with fortune tellers trying to figure out exactly when a chance meeting might take place.

Maybe one reason I had such a hard time was because she was so so good at NC herself. She made herself impossible to contact without braking the law almost. Plus my fear if I tried at the wrong time that i would screw it up. So I stayed in Limbo for years waiting for the right time...waiting for the stars to be just in the right place ;==

Anyway...we love who we love and we'll fall out of that love when we fall out of it.

a clear head though can speed up that process :-\

We do have to either have a clear head to cognitively know that seeing them again will be useless..OR...we have to have had enough of that to finally know and really feel we have had enough.

There have been two times here on the board where a couple guys just couldn't let go and I felt that there would be no physical danger to either party if they tried a meeting and actually suggested that they do go ahead and try it again if they could...that is very rare for me or anyone here to do that if the BP is untreated. Thses guys I actually felt would be hurt much more and were in a more dangerous position staying away than getting kicked in the teeth just one more time.

See...going back to one for another shot at it with a BP that is untreated isn't to change them cuz that won't change... they will still be mentally ill. Its to only change us with that last heart brake that finally brakes the spell. Problem is some heart brakes or too many of them can be deadly...they really can.

If the BPs you are talking about are untreated ones then nothing can change with them reguardless of how many shots ya wanna take.

Thats the pure science of this.

Yeah Gary, I was a person that couldn't let it go. I was in no contact for 8 tortous months and still I felt madly in love with him and I continued to long deeply for him. It seemed that there was no end to my suffering. So I went back and it was only when I did this that I was able to begin to see things more clearly. Getting back together with him inflicted tons of new pain on me and I still wouldn't recommend it to anyone else, however it did seem to force reality on me. When I first met him he idealized me and treated me like gold for many months, this time around he didn't bother with the that crap. I only got about a 2 week honeymoon period before he started acting like a complete and utter jerk again. Well after being away from that kind of behaviour for so long and then to be assaulted with it so quickly, it felt like a cold hard slap across the face. I was more offended and had a qucker reaction to his abusive behavior because he hadn't spent the time grooming me for it. We ask ourselves over and over again why we accepted the abuse? whats wrong with us that we accepted that kind of treatment from someone? I think we accepted it because of the slow build up and all of the good periods in between. When my ex returned and came out of the starting gate acting abusive I had the same reaction that any healthy person would have to abusive behaviour. I was like 'are you f**king kidding me? You must be freaking stupid if you think I'm going to put up with this crap!'

Gary, in my case, I'm "going back and forth" mentally; I still live with my uBPh with that constant inner conflict of: Is it safer to continue living with him or in reality, can I safely get a running start alone w/strangers?

So many years with a BP is now becoming  "I know my enemy" which could be in my favor... but then what is also real to me now what you said too  ?


Gary, could you clarify for me what "too many" or the "deadly" aspects... I'm really stuck here (gasp)

thx.

gary,

I am so glad you mentioned the fortune tellers.  I thought that I was the only one.  As things were ending for the last time, I was reading 3 different on line horoscopes per day, free on line tarot cards AND I had a face to face Tarot reading and an hour and a half phone consultation with Tarot reader.  The psychic, "saw NO divorce card, yet saw that he had some very deep abandonment issues".  This was BEFORE I stumbled onto the BPD stuff.  She said that something very important would happen the end of February and for me to be patient and imagine a pink cord running between us.  My religious faith really frowns on psychics, so I really was going against my own values .

Bdawn,  The exact same thing happened to me.  After being away, his abusive behavior was very shocking.  There was no warm up period, as there was over the past years.  He was always upset that I was in no big rush to have him move back home, despite the fact that I was desperate to reconcile.  I would say that we needed to be getting along for more than a week at a time.  When we did have a blowup, he would come over the next day as if nothing had happened.  Then he would rage at me for even bringing it up.  Yes, I did develop more fragile, yet healthy boundaries after he left.  It made it more and more clear that he would never move back home.  The kids saw this long before I did..."there is no way that dad is ready to move back home with us".

The very odd thing about this gal (psychic) that i went to for around 2 to 3 years is we became kind friends because I saw her so much.

I know I was getting ripped off at times $700.00 for candles ect ect which I never saw but were lit someplace I was told :P..but After I quit going she called me after about 4 months and asked me if I had seen Cathy and I said no. She said well you are going to this Saturday so be ready. ( I hadn't seen Cathy in a year or so even going down a street.). I said what do you mean exactlyy "see her" you mean like going down the road or what? She said ."No you will actually run into to her in person...she will be right there in front of you."

I dismissed it and that Saturday I went to  brew pub that was below a studio I used to have. Just walked in and sat at the bar and happened to look over to my left and there she was sitting there all by herself looking at me. i walked over and gave her a little hug and we talked and became  what cathy termed as "freinds" and started a friendship that night...which is a hell all its own when you still love someone but the rules are for friendships. The whole thing took a major dump about 6 months later.

So I stayed in Limbo for years waiting for the right time...waiting for the stars to be just in the right place barfy

Anyway...we love who we love and we'll fall out of that love when we fall out of it."

Ok Gary, WOW...I have always liked reading your posts here, b'c you have no problem sharing your experience...You even mentioned getting hauled off one night?   Can you share what the "turning point" was for you?  I mean I know its a process but you seem very "over" it and her now...Also, how do you feel about your ex now?  Is there still a twinge of missing her?

Sorry if it seems like I am prying but I think that when those of us are still going through the pain it helps to see people like you that have made it. 

Sure...Let me put some coffee on.
...It really never has bothered me discussing these things because the way I see it I have nothing to be ashamed about as none of you should either. We loved someone more than ourselves to the extreme and got in trouble for it. You especially want to develope that freedom of laying it all out if talking to  "T"



First I don't proclaim to have hurt anyworse that anyone else here and the amount and longevity of my pain was due to my own weekness at the time.

Yes I was hauled off to a hospital and placed in a psyc (sp) ward. At the end I just had a complete brakedown. I just snapped while walking down the hallway of a major client of mine thinking about what all I had been through. I was just found leaning up against a wall sobbing and starring off into space. Actually i wasn't sobbing yet but just starring off into space. When someone walked up and said the words, "Are you ok?" is when I said "No" and started sobbing...I was done, Too much of what we go through here and the brain will just stop and say ,"I quit."


That event above started it and then an accumulation of here ,therapy and other events helped finish it off.

Probably one thing that helped me "get over it" was from deep someplace a will to live seeped through all the darkness. To me I actually knew that I either get over this and never experience anything like it again or I would die. That if putting myself in situations where the possibility of getting killed didn't do it that I would just do it myself.  Then time...after enough time of not being with someone you think you love..it just goes away. One day I woke up and wasn't in love anymore.

See these maps with the pins...  www.web.mac.com/garywaltersphoto/iWeb/Site/Photo%20Assignments.html

Over 90% of those places I went to on photo assignments I was a crazy person and did the assignmnet on auto pilot. On over 90% of those locations I was dropped of in I never cared if I made it out or not.It wasn't important and I explored and lived it that way in those places. I found myself doing things and in places that only God must have helped me out of. See Moscow ? My guide all the while there was a Russian hooker I hired for a week  to take me places in Moscow that ya just don't go to..no sex though. She almost had me talked out of checking out of my hotel and moving in with her and her brother to save money. Im sure I would have either woke up dead or at the very least without my equipment.

There are hundreds of stories like that one and much much worse. I only use those examples to share just how dangerous this can get for us if we dont find our way out. Its just a darn shame that I have gone to all those places and had to be nuts while there...but I have seen things that no regular visitor ever sees.

I also must give credit to my God and my Shaman who my God created. Without them i know for a fact i wouldn't be typing these words.  ya have to believe in something.


I look at Cathy and those like her now with all that I can afford to offer...pity.

Cathy and those like her didn't sign up for this. They didn't one day decide "Hey I think I'll be BP"...its the turds and btches that didn't love them like we did that planted and fertilized the seeds of BPD and left them back then as children with little other choice than to protect themselves however they could. They just never learned or realized that it was safe later and the monsters were gone now and they could quit running.


Thank You for caring about that but I don't mind now.

I'm not saying that certian areas aren't typed without a lump in my throat because even though those times are past and I am over them...they will always be sad.  What we must be carefull of is that these sad moments don't represent a green light to us that something must be done.



Yes, but I have to explain. During the 7 years she I believe maybe twice got tierd and allowed her plated armor to fall off. During those brief moments she trusted me and I met the PreBP Cathy.

That one I will probably miss forever and so will she. :'(

Hi Gary,

That was one of the best posts I have read, from a helping staNPDoint.  I believe I was or am one incident from getting hauled off myself.  I've had to look at myself and ask (scratching my head)  'How much else do you need to see get it'  I need to wake up and I am really trying.   As you say, we tread dangerous grounds while in the middle.  I don't want to push myself to a breaking point.

"I just snapped while walking down the hallway of a major client of mine thinking about what all I had been through. I was just found leaning up against a wall sobbing and starring off into space. Actually i wasn't sobbing yet but just starring off into space. When someone walked up and said the words, "Are you ok?" is when I said "No" and started sobbing...I was done"

This really spoke to me.  I have been playing this game for too long.  I hear my inner voice telling me that its time...time to let go...time to give up being the "fixer"  time to stop waiting for something in my imagination of her getting better and coming running through my door or fooling myself that it will be different in 2 months...The good thing with this last gf is that things never got ugly...and I have the option of keeping the few good memories of her...Why is it that we have to see the worst or breakdown b4 we finally get it?  Anyway, just rambling, but I am glad that you did get better.

"To me I actually knew that I either get over this and never experience anything like it again or I would die. That if putting myself in situations where the possibility of getting killed didn't do it that I would just do it myself."

This is where I am.  I have also, just recently, started to understand that I have been just as much a part of playing these relationships out and the exes.  I think it was just yesterday that I was FINALLY able to understand why I need to take a break from being emotionally attached or dating. 


"I look at Cathy and those like her now with all that I can afford to offer...pity.

Cathy and those like her didn't sign up for this. They didn't one day decide "Hey I think I'll be BP"...its the turds and btches that didn't love them like we did that planted and fertilized the seeds of BPD and left them back then as children with little other choice than to protect themselves however they could. They just never learned or realized that it was safe later and the monsters were gone now and they could quit running."

I think this is the best most mature way to look at it.  I mean what else can we do?  Except to be crazy enough to believe we could change the situation with our love, fortune tellers, flowers or whatever.


"Yes, but I have to explain. During the 7 years she I believe maybe twice got tierd and allowed her plated armor to fall off. During those brief moments she trusted me and I met the PreBP Cathy.

That one I will probably miss forever and so will she."

This is such an informative statement.  Really, think about it...We do get the glimpse and make the mistake of holding onto it for dear life.  Think about the title of this thread...Often this is what we go back hoping for...but we have to let go or we will ruin our lives.  Hard lesson.

Thanks again Gary for your post.  Please know that you have really helped someone out today...

Your very welcome johnlf.

Thats what we do here is pass it forward...hey..if nothin else,how many people you know who passed a bottle of Vodka around one night  with Moscows version of the Hell's Angles  :evil:

I feel like I want to go back to the bully and explain things - she never understood my side of things.  I guess it's not having had a sense of closure.  If I could just explain how it was for me, what a sense of closure it would be to know she finally understood what she was doing to me...but alas, I know it wouldn't go that way, would it?  It would be more of the same, everything's all my fault and I should be ashamed and guilty of who I am and what she wants me to believe I've done.  Has anyone found a way to get a sense of closure, without the pointless scene I paint above?  Why is it we feel compelled to just go back and talk with the BPD?  (and then of course get re-engagemented in)

Your probably going to find that the closure will come from within yourself one day.

One day it will just all be ok.

Doing what you and most of us feel like doing would usually just ad another incident to need closure on.

johnfl - this is where I'm really stuck with living with my uNBh... I do "know better" but am paralyzed and unstructured finding my way on my own (even after trusting my "highest Power" to lead me on this from it's beginning 35 years ago).


I agree! The generation(s) that raised these NPBs gives me "empathy" not pity; I refuse to sympathize with this "behavior" because pity is exactly what they learned from those "turds and btches", and the NBP feeds off pity IF we allow it. (I read recently that (the spirit of) narcissisism has been filtering down through our (USA) culture since World War II? That tells me that ONLY the highest level of "Love" is the ONLY thing to bring down this demon) Hmm... (Also, my real conflict is wanting to believe our "highest Power" can bring into being [positives] that do not yet exist).


Gary, this was so much where I've been for the past year... "never experience anything like it again or I would die" is the only reason I "thought" I had to leave; the only difference for me is "one day I woke up and..." the holySpirit witnessed to me that I wanted to know and love my "highest Power" more than uNBP powers, so...

Just recently, I am learning a new level of COMPASSION (that's giving me a Peace not known before); it's like weird... compensation or reconciliation for his lack of ever experiencing "normal" human love which doesn't give'em a leg to stand on to even pursue "supernatural" Love (could it be... forgiveness? so Love can become "unstuffed" and begin to flow?) Hmm...

It's just boggling all by itself, not to mention bringing one's "highest Power" into it... :P

I'm simply owning up to my years of crap (to be sure) and believe FOR my uNBPh's "unveiling"...

I think that could work for me now because I have way more "armor" now to counter this demon than I did in his high-function years.

... hope to talk more  johnfl and gary... you are insightful and very helpful...   

thanks.

Wow.. I've been so focused on myself lately that I forgot that there was actually a real PreBP person somewhere in the monster of a person that I have been with.. It actually made me miss my xbp.. Feeling sorry for her.. Thank you gary for sharing that.. it was something that was inside me that I neglected to think about, but reading it really helped me think back and appreciate some of the good times that the PreBP person gave me.. I don't think anger is a healthy way to get over something.. It helps in the beginning, but after a while it becomes indifference.. and I know I still have a way to go.. but looking back and just appreciating the good times gives me a bittersweet feeling.. thanks again =)

We still need to keep a clear crisp vision of all of it and the reality of it..but hey...If it was really total abuse and a nightmare right out of the gate ,i don't know if there ever was or will be anyone Codependent enough to have got past the first hr.

"johnfl - this is where I'm really stuck with living with my uNBh... I do "know better" but am paralyzed and unstructured finding my way on my own (even after trusting my "highest Power" to lead me on this from it's beginning 35 years ago)."

Still, I thank god that I never ended up moving with my most recent ex.  I lived with my last gf who was BPD, for a year.  I remember waking up in the mornings and after making coffee...her criticising it being too strong, too weak...or god only remembers what... ::)  It literally wore me down to a nub...Then there was the way I stacked the dishes..  ;==  Walking on Eggshells...Sleeping on Eggshells...Then there was the time she backed over the garbage can and blamed me for buying one that was too big!  Forget the fact that she had just downed a bottle of Vodka and needed to go out for a 2 hour cigarette break at 2AM and forgot it was trash day...  ;==  Of course...she spend the next morning btching about all the trash being  in the yard...

And I am not kidding...I am sitting here LMAO...as I write this...laughing at myself...when I think how she was...I mean I am doubled over laughing at myself...not b'c its funny living with BPD...its just comical now as I have no other way to look at it b'c I was playing a part in it...and there was A time I really thought she was "the one"  thought I would really miss her...My god WTH was I thinking...I am only saying this in hopes you can relate...

At the time it wasn't funny, Still...it was gut wrenching...killer painful...I made it out somehow, someway...See the contrast?  It sounds like you are enmeshed.  Would you agree?  I know I was...Do you have a way to get counselling?  If you can, its a step in the direction out of OZ...

I don't know your story or circumstances...and I'm not a counsellor. But one of the few things I've managed to do is get out of BPD land in the past...I've done it more than a few times...I just have to stop going back now...No more...

Anyway, to my point for you...One of the things that REALLY helped was to make a game plan...of finances, work, workout...etc...I set my goal to get out by ex date...start a sales goal or target...get on a killer workout plan...and told myself its this or I will die...Then I set up weekly counselling sessions, got a buddy here on bpdfamily..Her name was Nelful..she was probably the one person that woke me up...and gave me the support as I was getting out...she just appeared one day...and wrote to me everyday for weeks..

Something that helped me out b4 and still helps me is relating to someone who has made it out and is well...It gives you a model to work towards...There was this guy b4 by the screenname of Marky..He was a warrior and his resolve and dedication to recovery still stick with me...This stuff IS serioiusly life threatening..

This time around it was relating to Gary's story...(he doesn't know how helpful his posts have been to me)  but I relate to his story and circumstances for some reason...I know that if I didn't just say..."I quit" something bad was waiting for me around the corner...I also realize that what I am looking for (a healthy loving relationship) doesn't mean torturing myself to the point of insanity...I couldn't see what I was doing to myself...I am REALLY trying to get out now and see and resolve my inner conflict...Sorry to go off on a tangent Still ...Its just that I realize where you are..and how hard it is...Good Luck...