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The Narcissistic / Borderline Couple Author: Joan Lachkar, PhD Publisher: Brunner/Mazel; 1 edition (February 1, 1992) Paperback: 242 pages ISBN-10: 0876306342 ISBN-13: 978-0876306345 (https://bpdfamily.com/book-covers/spacer.gif) (https://bpdfamily.com/book-covers/locate.png) (http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?keywords=0876306342&st=sh&ac=qr&submit=)

Book Description
 This volume explores how partners form a parasitic bond and play out a drama of earlier conflictual experiences, characterized by their painful, circular patterns of behaviour. The complexities of these relationships and the potential obstacles to effective intervention are also examined.  "Follies-a-deux", madness-in-twosome, afflicts many couples when both partners are personality disordered. ":)efining the narcissistic/borderline couple as "individuals who, when they are together, form a shared couple myth that gives rise to many collective fantasies," Lachkar explicates the network that underlies this type of relationship and demonstrates how two theoretical constructs--self psychology and object relations--can be integrated to create an effective conjoint treatment of marital pathology."
 
About the Author
Joan Lachkar, Ph.D., is a licensed Marriage and Family therapist in private practice in California, who teaches psychoanalysis and is the author of The Many Faces of Abuse: Treating the Emotional Abuse of High -Functioning Women and numerous publications on marital and political conflict.  She is an affiliate member of the Southern California Psychoanalytic Institute, an adjunct professor at Mount Saint Mary's College, a psychohistorian, is on the editorial board of the Journal of Emotional Abuse.

There it is, I knew I must be drawn back to this site to trawl for a reason. I will definately get this book, read some extracts on Google already, makes perfect sense, as I have always identified as a compensatory narcissist, hence the fatal attraction with BPD.

There's been pretty good research done showing that narcissistic men and borderline women often get together because their 'dynamic' serves one another and plays off each of eachother.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say thay my bf has both borderline and strong narcisstic traits and that if anything, and that I have borderline tendancies. No I would not qualify for a BPD diagnoses, but when I decompensate, my abandonment fears and anger look suspiciously 'borderline' in terms of how passionatately I react and how upset and dysregulated I feel when he pushes my buttons.

Does anyone have any insight or see anything similar in their relationships here?

Does that change the paying field in terms of skills and strategies to make the relationship work nor at least help the relationship to become more healthy, as that is what this board is all about?

Anyone?

MaybeSo,

I have posed this question to myself a few times...

the best I can get with it is this:

I have borderline fleas... I constently work on  from living with him

I have strong tendency to be codependent as well

fell back into that mode this the last month

i am sure I look crazy to him as well... but I address the problems he brings up in the marriage to make it better

that is the difference... in my case

Well, it might mean that your relationship would benefit from each of you receiving individual therapy. If you have concerns about your own mental health.


On this topic, when my wife was away on her ... .adventure ... .last year, she kept hinting ominously that custody wouldn't be such a slam dunk on mental health as I thought it would. Finally she admitted that she thought I might be NPD, and that court ordered psych evals would reveal it.

I thought that was interesting, especially after I read about the BPD-NPD pairing thing.  My therapist says he doesn't see it, but who knows? 

I actually got the impression over the years that my wife would like me to be NPD - to be almost pathologically "confident" and thick skinned (I guess so I could weather her self-confidence-melting blasts without flinching?).

I see it as something to look into.

None of us are mentally healhty, or we wouldn't have stayed beyond the first few dates or the first rage fest. Whether that means we are co-dependent, NPD, or BPD ourselves, or just suffer from low self esteem, working on ourselves is the only real answer.

There isn't anything we can do to change our patrners, only ourselves... .a great place to start  :)

One of my ex's famous lines used to be "You used to be so confident!".

The familiar/identical conversations we've all had never ceases to amaze me.


My wife has diagnosed me as narcissistic and sociopathic, yet my psychiatrist has never even hinted at either.

Have I mentioned that she's planning on going to therapy?... .

This is a great subject.  I truly believe we all have a bit of narcissism in our lives.  It is what enables us to care about ourselves.  It is the extreme narcissism that comes without empathy, that we all need to be careful of.  I think living with someone with BPD can cause us to have moments of extreme narcissism in order to survive.  However, that being said we need to take responsiblity for not going that route.  Be careful not to get too extreme in valueing ourselves and in the process lose empathy for others.  I've seen myself going down this path before and have had to pull myself back.

Well, I will confess that I am the one who has labeled my by NPD/BPD for almost the three years I have been with him.  He would lie to me, and have no problem with it whatsoever, and was very good at rationalizing and denying and making excuses.  When it really caused harm, and I was in pain, crying... .trying to understand wth is going on... .he has ZERO empathy.  Seeing my cry, does not affect him AT ALL.  Often, it makes him angry, my tears make him feel attacked.  His constant need for attention from other woman played in to my reasoning also, and finally he actually states adamently that he beleives he is SPECIAL.  He believes he is special and that others are just not as smart as he is an/or other just don't get him... .because he's special.  I questioned this once in an argument and he was shaking with rage.  This is why I have always felt he was narcissistic, and as our relationship went on, I was honest with him about me feelings/suspicions.  He is in many ways a poster child for NPD.  I thought I was 'working' on the relationship by learning about this stuff.  Now it makes me feel like maybe I'm just an abusive sht like he is... .as you guys mention... your borderline 'partners' seem to want to label you NPD or whatever.

Oh who knows anymore... .

I do therapy... .I have been with the same thx for over 3 years... .started out seeing her to explore a career change and to do more work processing my last failed ltr.  He has done at least 3 years in thx too.  And look where we are at?  We are well equipped to throw out labels and pathalogize eachother…but still completely unable to not have a freeken blow up every 3 months.   I just feel like I’m spinning my wheels, the more I know the less I understand as the saying goes.  All I know is I don’t know how to make this relationship healthy.  I’ve been lied to so many times I don’t know how to trust.  And he is angry with me for that, zero empathy (or it turns on and off depending on the day)…so that leaves me nowhere.

But then maybe my crying jsut frustrates him... .like the folks on here who talk about their partner's borderline melt downs... .after a while it's hard to feel any empathy when you feel your chain is being yanked.

I don't cry to manipulate (It feels real to me when I cry... .in fact... .I have never been a big cryer until this relationship... .I have cryed more in the last 2.5 years than I have in my entire life combined)...

I don't make sucicidal threats... .I'm dependant, I take care of myself

I don't self harm... .although I can tear up my cuticles pretty badly when anxious... .

I do not have a history of explosive anger or outrageous ragefull outbursts... .but I am very CLEAR, even forceful with my opinions and my thoughts when I feel I've something is going on that I do not like... .

I definately have abandonment fears... .but I've always trained myself to handle them on my own when I believe they are my own... .meaning I don't think I torment my past boyfriends with my fears and hang-ups... .and if I feel that tendancy in me coming up... .I recognize it and bite my tongue. 

but I have gotten into this crazy relationship and have been 'working it' like it's a part time, sometimes full time job, for three years now... .so I have to stop and wonder... .

what the hell am I doing?  what the hell is wrong with me?

MaybeSo,

i could have written all of your posts on this thread

it comes from the realization that you are not in a normal relationship... those are the fleas you may be experiencing...

when I came out of the fog and realized what I was dealing with... heck its scares me... to no end

being treated with no empathy

as if we cry on cue just to make them feel bad (happened to me last night he raged when I cried)

makes no sense

which is why we need to take good care of us

my biggest question is... how far? the way I was going was leaving him and playing on his fear of abandonment... I dont wanna do that though

trying to find a happy medium myself

narcissism (healthy not on overload0 protects us... tells us to take care of us

everyone has a bit of it... its just if its overamplified... then its a problem

  your way its alot to handle honey

Ok, you guys are freaking me out here and I will probably spend all afternoon diagnosing myself!


This is exactly what I was doing when reading this post! Ya caught me!

my-issues  I am having trouble remembering what life was like before BPD and I started dealing with the side effects.  Not that I am blaming my BPDh because I am not but I did pick up the

my-issues 's along the way and have been spending time exterminating.


I understand totally.  I actually have been working with a charity recently and some "friends" of my BPDh's and mine commented to me that I am doing too much and need to devote more time to him.  This is the one thing I have done for me in ten years!

Sorry to freak you out PK... .I know I know... .

I'm just really sick of this whole thing.  I'm more then ready to pull the sht off the corpse... .figuratively speaking.

I'm so sick of worry about him and analyzing him

My dad left us for another woman when I was five.  My mom was crying one night as they fought over the 'other woman'.  He was a total ∂ƒ∫∆˚ to her.  I was less than 5 years old when I heard this fight, right before he left.  When my mom sobbed, he looked at her and in his most sarcastic mocking voice said 'poor baby'... .he was tormenting an already tormented woman.  Even at 4 I always remember that... .I always remember hearing the way he spoke to her and even a 4 years of age I remembering thinking... .that is not right what he is doing to mom.  My bf is the exact same way.

I bristle at the notion of "if you're involved with a crazy person, then you're crazy too."

I think some of us are completely blindsided by BPD traits that didn't appear until the relationship had progressed to the committed stage. I wouldn't have even dated my h if he had been like this when we met. Back then, he was cheerful, hardworking, independent, and NOT emotional. Now I know that he was simply on a "high" for a couple of years because he'd moved from a city he disliked to a place he'd always wanted to live, and he had a job/career that was going very well. Plus, I was head-over-heels in love with him and that gave him a huge ego boost that kept a lot of his present BPD traits at bay.

When I first met my wife she was attractive, working hard, liked to go out and do things, etc.  Sure, I noticed some "faults", but everyone has them.

I realize now it was just a ploy, she was mirroring me to get me hooked. 

It took close to three years, but her true self eventually came out.

If it weren't for two beautiful kids, I'd literally throw her out with my bare hands.

The thing is, we are not NPD.  If we were, it wouldn't bother us so much and we wouldn't be here.

7971C, I believe you are right that people on this board are most likely not full blown NPD's.  However, I do believe a lot of us have traits that can cause the dysfunctional dance that occurs between a non and a BPD individual.  I also think that being married to a BPD individual for a length of time can cause a non to regain their life by going overboard and becoming a little narcisstic in the process.  That is what I mean by always paying attention to not becoming too engrossed in your own stuff and acting too narcisstic.

The Narcissistic / Borderline Couple: A Psychoanalytic Perspective On Marital Treatment: Joan Lachkar.

that's a great book. it's all in there.

Interesting variety of feedback.

I just know for myself, and I'm only speaking for myself... .that the more I am with my NPD/BPD bf... .

The more I see traits in myself that look very borderline.  I guess I just want to be honest about that and write about it on here, becasue I feel in some ways I'm solivng a mystery.  I don't want to shy away from whatever roles I play in this dance... .whether my borderline traits are due to fleas, or if they have always been there and I've just been in safer relationships such as a way to keep my own demons at bay... .I think it may be a combination of the two.

I think, for example, I am now WAY hypersensitive to any sign of flirting or almost any attention my bf gives to other women.  Yes, it's due to our history together, becasue I have factually been 'betrayed' with other women.

But I have never been comfortable with my boyfreinds giving attention to other women.  As a result, I pick men who tend to not go overboard in that way... .purposefully.  I have picked men who, if I get a little alarmed about something I see... .will be open to hearing my concerns and will not go out of their way to stimulate further 'alarm'.  I have always picked safe men to be with in this area, men who will not challange or stimulate my fears in this area because I think I have always recognized in myself that it brings up way too much fear for me.  Other women may be able to take a lot of flirting and attention to and from other females in stride... .I am not on of those gals.  I know this about myself and I've I’ve picked men who are safe for me in this way. 

I THOUGHT my bf was that kind of guy based on our first three months together.  I did not see flirting, I was told he was always %100 faithful to his wife of 16 years despite a bad marriage with little or no affection or attention, I was told he wanted to have a healthy, committed relationship with one woman and model that to his kids, I was told I was the kind of woman he always dreamed about having a relationship with ever since he was a kid. 

Once I got to know him better…I saw that he was very flirtatious and seductive with women, he has women around him all the time, they seem to ooze out of the woodwork.  When at six months I saw this…I was again honest with him…that this may be fine for him…but this is not my cup of tea.  I know this about myself, this is NOT my cup of tea. 

Thus started the borderline dance of him alternating between lofty promises to become more enlightened and sensitive and be a better man, that I make him want to be a better man, the man he has always wanted to be…

And the exact opposite…crazy – making switch backs, arguments, broken promises,  lies, distortions, double-speak, triple-speak…

He is so convincing…SOO convincing when he WANTS to secure the relationship….he will attribute every argument we have ever had, no matter how taxing on both of us…as yet another growing experience…that despite how upset I become he actually learns and grows and gets better and gets a clue each time we go to battle on this.

Here I am three years later and we are still going to battle on this. 

My point is, I’ve gone to battle with him so many times that my trust is zero.  So now…when a sexy woman approaches him at a baseball game and I am NOT introduced, the feeling that go through me remind me of what it would be like to be borderline…I just want to scream!   Having said that, I can still contain myself, but feel the need to ‘talk’ so we can reach some kind agreement because I DO NOT like being ignored when other women walk up to him.  But he attacked ME for being sensitive around this…it’s like he has been on his best behavior for 2 full months and he was just ready to GO OFF on me…it’s like he feels he is killing himself to please me and is furious with me because nothing he does ‘satisfies’ me or makes me feel more secure.  I would feel a lot more secure if he would stop approaching hot women and if he does, at least INTRODUCE me to them! 

When he verbally attacked me the other night because I was upset that he ignored me with this woman…I held it together for about 2 mintues…but he kept yelling at me about how ‘I pull this sht out of my ass’…this went on for about 2 minutes and I finally just FLIPPED OUT…I started to scream back at him…I threw a power cord across the room, I started grabbing my stuff and went out the front door to throw my stuff in my car so I could get out of there…I was the borderline at that point…I was enraged and going into flight/fight mode…I felt like he was tormenting me…when I came back in the house at one point I pushed past him and in doing so I think I hit him on his shoulder…I wanted to do more…I get soo enraged around this guy.   I can think of one or two time in my whole life I have ever felt so angry... .but with this guy…it has happened several times in the 2.5 years I’ve been with him…I ACT OUT THE BORDERLINE, OUT OF CONTROL WOMAN. 

That is why I say, I really wonder if we are the classic NPD and BPD couple.  If I am borderline, I believe I have been able to exercise very good control of myself for years now…but around him... not so much.

MaybeSo,

I have been thru what most of what you have with the "other woman thing"

you probably are suffering from abuse and pstd... you have insight into your own behaviors... that right there makes you NOT fit the mold of narcissstic or BPD

dont fel guilty for being selfish about your needs or wants... they will want you to think you are narcissistic... when you are only taking care of you... I check this very thing that you pose with my t all the time... she says its from years of programming from abusive people

you see that logic doesnt matter to him... anyone would get frustrated in the same circumstances after years of it falling on deaf ears...

plese dont be so hard on yourself

hang out with crazys you will turn into one

there is a book called "the crazymakers"  I forget teh author... it helped me put the behavior (and mine) in its place

x

So from what you are saying, you used to chose men who were easy for you to manipulate, and now that you have one who won't, who lies and twists the truth, it is bringing out the worst in you?

OK - sounds like a great insight.

Now what do you plan on doing about it?

UA, I'm sorry, but I guess I don't understand how being clear w/ a man that I'm not a big fan of 'flirting' with other women is manipulative on my part... .I have always been straight up and willing to suffer my loses if a man has different 'needs' or values.  How is being clear about my values and needs being manipulative? Your comment implies I have successfully manipulated men all my life, and my current bf is simply fight back against my manipulation?   I don't believe all men want to behave the way my bf behaves... .I tell people who I am so they can make choices about if I'm their type of 'gal' or not... .I don't hide or trick tehm into thinking I'm free and easy around the issue of other women... .and then spring it on them later that I have 'hang ups' around flirting or provacative behavior.  I expect people to likewise, be honest about who they are and what they want... .values, lifestyle... .so I don't understand your comment?

Having bugged my T about this for a while, I'm just going to paraphrase her response - "The very fact you're worried you could have NPD is the best indication that you don't".

Narcissists don't even consider that they have a problem and certainly won't ask a professional for their opinion.

Personally, I think the pwBPD accuse us of this to justify why we don't 'care for them anymore' or are being 'selfish and uncaring' by not 'meeting their needs' or 'being there for them'. The truth is that they have no understanding of how endless their needs are and how draining that can be - they only know that they need more.

Despite the fact you can give and give and give... .it will never be enough and we will always end up, from time to time, being painted as narcissistic, cold and uncaring.

This is a good point - from the point of view of someone with BPD, by not being 100% focused on them we "are" selfish and uncaring.

Jumping on the back of what you said AnonNZ, my therapist said something along these lines too.  I told her my ex accused me of being the one with borderline and that he more or less accused me of having every mental illness going.  Her reply was "the fact that you are here looking for help, asking if you have any of these disorders, knowing that what he was doing to you was not normal behaviour and asking him to stop, get help and you could try to work things out in a normal way... .proves that you do not havethese disorders"  She said that he had borderline written all over him and that i had terrible low self esteem written all over me, as a result of spending a year and a half with someone tearing me apart in any way he could get away with.

I find on these boards that a lot of people automatically assume we are disordered in some way because we have dated or continue to date someone with BPD, but remember that we are duped into thinking this person is amazing.  They go out of their way to look like the perfect person and once they have you in their web, then and only then, they start behaving erratic and hurtful towards us.  There is no person in the world who would not start behaving a little abnormal themselves with all this going on around them.  If we had known what borderline was prior to dating them and known they had it, we most likely would opt not to date them, or we would have went in there armed with coping mechansims = a better chance of the relationship working out.  Going in there not knowing they have it or what it even is and then being bombarded with push/pull, love/hate, over reactions to everything, drama and chaos if you even wake up too early in the morning and having the relationship ended/started/ended/started every other week... .would drive a saint to sin and make us question our own sanity.  Bear in mind also that trauma repeatedly thrown at you causes ptsd amongs other things, so if we start to behave a little erratic at times... .that is normal! 

I for one will be darned if i am going to question my sanity any longer when the guy telling me i was crazy was: punching himself in the face as a coping mechanism to any word, facial expression, stress that triggered him, name calling like a child in a playground, only with more vile words, screaming and raging like a lunatic every time he felt attacked, over reacting to every situation, every word, every facial expression!  And... .these are only some of the things i had to deal with every day.  Given that i have never been told i am crazy, horrible, nasty, evil, metally ill and given that my therapist has given me the mental health "all clear and sane" stamp of approval, i am never going to allow anyone to make me think i am crazy again, not ever.

Hey everyone good thread.  I think you are all right by saying that our BPD SO tries to make us look narcisistic.  However, when we do get in a good place and start to do more for ourselves I think we need to be aware that we are still married.  Or that we have choosen to still stay with our SO.  So the challenge for me now is how to balance my life.  Having 3 kids a uBPDw and full time job take a lot of effort.  And then on top of that to try and do your own thing and recover your life.  I really believe you can go overboard the other way and start to look narcissitic or even start to act that way.  It is a tough balancing act, one that I am constantly going over with my T.

I apologize for the word "manipulate". It was pretty harsh    A fairer word would have been "men who were more accommodating".

What you have now though, isn't one of those men. That was my point. He isn't going to be managed or fair about things. The very nature of BPD makes them selfish, so he won't respond the same way your other men did to your insecurities.

Think of it in fighting terms. Up till now you've dated guys in your weight class. Your new bf outweighs you, has more determination than you do, is more experienced in getting his way, doesn't fight fair, and fights to win at all cost. Doing the same ole things you've done before won't win you what you want.

So what are you willing to change to work towards making things better?

The Narcissistic and Borderline Couple: Implications for Mediation

Joan Lachkar, Ph.D.

(https://bpdfamily.com/book-covers/the-narcissistic.jpg)

This talk was presented at AFCC's Winter Conference on December 13, 1985 in San Diego, California. Joan Lachkar, Ph.D. is the author of The Narcissistic / Borderline Couple and is in private practice in Westwood, California.

Suddenly my head begins to spin. I feel dizzy and confused. My head keeps going round and round. In front of me sits a married couple; they go on and on in circles, going nowhere. A feeling of despair overwhelms me as I think to myself, This couple needs to be in therapy. I then realize l am the therapist.

There seems to be emerging a new kind of couple with which, I believe, courts are becoming more and more familiar. Although to date there is no diagnostic category indicating a collective diagnosis of this particular couple indicating their behaviors, pathological interactions, characteristics, and idiosyncratic nature of relationship, they are becoming an increasing concern to court officials in the area of family law. Moreover, judges, lawyers, counselors and court personnel are becoming more .baffled about this type of dyadic unit. They see them regularly but don't recognize that beneath their apparent stubborn, childlike behaviors are some real fundamental conflictual issues.

In an earlier contribution, I have entitled them as the "Narcissistic/Borderline Couple" (Lachkar, 1984,1985). Although implied, I do not know of anyone who has put them together as a common unit. The efforts here are to abstract the main ideas from these previous works and apply them to (1) describe their behaviors, psychodynamics, and pathological interactions (the bond/dance between them), and indicate their danger signs by suggesting specific clues for court officials and mediators to recognize, (2) to describe their diagnostic differences and symptomology, and (3) suggest a treatment procedure.

I. Description of Their Behaviors: Psychodynamics, Pathological Interactions (the Bond/Dance Between Them), Clues and Warning Signs for Mediators

I have tentatively diagnosed these individuals within a particular relationship as the "Narcissistic/Borderline Couple," and have attempted to describe their qualitative differences (1984,1985). Many authors have noted difficulty and endless confusion in diagnosing and differentiating between them (Kohut, 1977,1971; Kernberg, 1975; Grotstein, 1980,1981,1 983; Masterson, 1981, et al.). Part of the confusion is that it is not clear whether they are truly narcissistic or borderline, whether they merely exhibit a certain vulnerability toward these disorders, or if certain individuals tend to bring out narcissistic/borderline defenses in the other when they are together and under particular circumstances. In addition, certain "states" and "traits" may tend to vacillate back and forth so that it is hard to tell at times which partner is the borderline and which is the narcissist. Nevertheless, the effort here is to seek out what it is that bonds/binds and attracts such individuals together and describe the basic characteristics so that court-connected officials, mediators, counselors and other personnel can readily recognize and safeguard against their danger signs.

The first thing I look for are interactions which are like a dance--on-going, circular, and never-ending (The DOLOOP)--to see what it is that perpetuates their conflict. Next, I ask myself what is the most pervasive feature or the most dominant trait of each partner. The borderline tends to be dominated mostly by abandonment fears, and the narcissistic person, by fear of the loss of specialness or appreciation. The borderline is the one who searches for those to bond with. When the promise of that bond is threatened, the borderline responds with blame and attack defenses. Any reminder or hint of abandonment or separation may arouse the need to "get back/get even," to "teach the other a lesson." The narcissist is the one who most often tends to withdraw, fears a loss of specialness, easily becomes injured or outraged by another when not properly mirrored or understood, and often has an exaggerated sense of entitlement. The narcissist seeks out others to confirm his feelings of entitlement. This need for mirroring seems to be the main clue that the person may be more inclined 'toward narcissistic organization. These differences may be explained in the following way: visitation rights, custody or child support payments may be withheld or battled by the narcissist out of exaggerated entitlement fantasies, feeling their children are more inclined to need them more than the other; whereas the borderline desires to withhold/battle in order to "get even" or "teach the other a lesson" (blame/attack mechanisms).

One may ask at this point what it is that bonds/binds or attracts such individuals together. It appears that two narcissists or two borderlines would never "make it" together or "do the dance," because of their dynamics and defenses. But together, these oppositional types seem to maintain a bond. I see each as the perfect counterpart for the other. For instance, the borderline holds to the fantasy that if he/she were better the other would meet his/her needs. The borderline's lack of impulse-control and the tendency to criticize and attack tends to cause the narcissist to withdraw. The withdrawal brings out the borderline's fears of abandonment and separateness which leads to more anxiety and attacks. In such a dyadic relationship, the narcissist is continually faced with his/her limitations threatening the image of perfection, beauty, entitlement, grandiosity, etc., and the struggle to turn to others in the external world for validation (https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation)/confirmation or approval. This withdrawal evokes profound anxiety in the borderline. The borderline, feeling threatened upon the potential loss of the narcissist, then attempts to win the narcissist back at any cost. The inclination of the borderline to subjugate self (be an "as if" personality) leads him/her to again reenact or play the role of the perfect mirroring self object for the narcissist and holds to the promise that he/she will improve ("do better". The narcissist then returns in light of this promise; however, the promise is impossible to keep due to the lack of impulse control in the borderline and the feelings of emptiness that are provoked by this pretense. Thus the cycle starts all over again.

Applying these complex aspects to such relationships, one can readily see how court systems can become perplexed and preoccupied with trying to understand how to deal with such on-going circular type dynamics. Even when apart, separated, or divorced, such couples maintain a tie or connection which never seems to reach a resolution. The most striking feature is the unconscious desire to bond or connect to the other. Needless to say, even when it appears they want nothing more to do with one another, there still is a desire to fuse/merge with the other in a dependent, parasitic manner. (This clinging kind of dependency differs from a healthy dependency or symbiosis). For the borderline, the desire to remain bonded or connected becomes a more pervasive force than life itself. To attack/blame stirs up highly charged feelings and emotions and provides a false sense of relatedness or connectedness (often a revival of an earlier loss). For the borderline, it is preferable to stir up highly charged feelings, even at the expense of others, rather than face up to an empty, impoverished internal world. In unspoken language, the borderline communicates his/her disappointment with an archaic empty mother, projecting onto the narcissistic partner (the fantasized mother capable of making up for all the early losses); through blaming and attacking mechanisms, they express disappointment that the other has failed in providing a "holding environment" (Winnecott, 1958) and in being the all-encompassing available mother preoccupied with her "child/husband." The fantasy of this connection or merging provides the wish for a "holding" or safe, protective environment. When this potential "holding environment" is threatened (as in divorce), an intense fear, and the desire to "get back" or retaliate, dominate. At this point, they will often sacrifice themselves or their children at any cost. This explains the puzzling dilemma of court officials to understand why children are often placed in the middle of arguments, are deprived, made to be "gobetweens," "little adults," play the role of mediators, "saviors/messiahs," etc. (Lachkar, 1983,1984).

For the narcissist there is a different experience and the need to bond/connect is more likely to be with those who offer the promise to admire, confirm, reaffirm, and appreciate the grandiose self. They bond with others who can, for instance, sympathize/empathize with the "bad" borderline daddy/husband who mistrusted them, thus giving further justification to their already distorted grandiose entitlement needs. Strangely enough, the narcissist usually returns in the hope of the borderline's renewed promises, often to end up again with, "Look, there you go again."

It is important to recognize that in spite of the pain, these behaviors are not done on purpose; rather they are a replay or reenactment of early primitive infantile longings, yearnings and wishes expressing their current personal scenario that through repeating painful experiences over and over they will have a new, happy ending. Unfortunately, couples who rely heavily upon magical thinking and repetitive behaviors never learn from experience (Bion 1959, 1962, 1967; Lachkar, 1983, 1984, 1985) because conflict is not resolved through repetition.

With these ideas in mind, one clue important for court officials to pay attention to is the realization that these couples are not looking for a cure; in fact, quite ironically, they prefer to dwell in pain. They do not seek advice, and even when they appear to listen and be responsive, they often reject advice, distort the court's recommendation, manipulate truth, and resort back into their painful delusional systems and familiar behaviors through the blaming/withdrawing configurations rather than facing up to the responsibilities through the recognition of limitations in self and other. Another important danger sign to be aware of is the circular, never-ending patterns of behavior. When one gets a sense of these behaviors occurring it is an indication that deeper psychopathologies are involved and more intensive, long-term treatment with psychologists who are specifically trained in self-psychology and other psychoanalytic modalities (see Treatment Procedures) may be required.

II. Diagnostic Differences

I wish to describe diagnostically the differences between narcissistic and borderline behaviors (states and traits) so that we may better understand why simple court ruling may become manipulated, misunderstood, and distorted. The earlier paper describes this process in more detail, but for purposes of simplification I take the liberty here of abstracting the basic elements so as to provide some understanding of their collective psychopathologies and ;psychodynamics and to note their differences.

We ask ourselves what it is within the personality of these particular individuals which limits them to cope with the real aspects of their relationship and the real world that must carry on and function in a mature way. Why are court orders pertaining to child support or joint custody agreements so difficult to follow? Why are orders which generally have been mutually decided and agreed upon by the couple and by proficient, caring court mediators and counselors distorted? It may be that often they could have some valid reasons why specific court instructions are not followed, but I often find more deeply rooted resistances. I have come to understand that these kinds of individuals resort to some form of magical thinking or a "couple myth" which utilizes infantile/primitive behaviors, believing that to express their rage and hurt feelings will resolve their personal issues. On the contrary, resorting to these behaviors distorts the mind and the ability to think clearly and rationally, and thus disables the person to follow through with the court's suggestions.

It has been stated that the narcissist is dominated by a need for specialness and appreciation, has a need to preserve a special relationship with another who he fantasizes will provide him with narcissistic gratification. While the borderline is preoccupied with proving his "existence," the narcissist is involved with proving he has s "special sense of existence." The narcissist is often feeling short-changed, let down and unfulfilled by the borderline spouse. Narcissists seemingly have a distorted or a pseudo sense of entitlement (as in feeling more entitled, as in withholding visitation rights), and seek out others who can mirror their grandiosity and reaffirm their "entitlement" needs. For the narcissist, this is preferable to facing up to his/her real self and its personal limitations and defects.

A sensitive observer can immediately pick up a qualitative difference between these two types. Often they are subtle nuances, but generally the indications of a narcissist are a lack of warmth, empathy, and consideration for the other; need for perfection and personal fulfillment; and inability to love and care for others. They have often had experiences as children of a maternal object who offered some promise of fulfilling early normal narcissistic needs, but then during separation became traumatized by the child's sense of separateness and by mother's withdrawal. Usually such a mother is deficient in appreciating the child's separate unique personal growth and development, and separation becomes traumatized by mother's withdrawal or inability to come through in the role of a mirroring parent; thereby the child becomes developmentally arrested. They continue to seek out others whom they fantasize will provide them with appreciation and recognition; however, no one in reality can fulfill their grandiose needs, namely because their sense of self has not been adequately developed and they therefore are continually left to rely on others to evaluate their accomplishments. Growth cannot occur and behaviors remain circular because of their narcissistic defenses (isolation, grandiosity, entitlement). Thinking becomes distorted, for when one is "grandiose" or feels "overly entitled," there is a tendency to distort thinking as in following court orders. As these behaviors perpetuate growth within, the self cannot develop as a separate structure and thus remains in its infantile state.

Whereas the narcissist once had a special relationship with mother, the borderline never did. The borderline does not know what it is like to bond, to feel connected, and often does not feel deserving or even entitled, yet knows there is a missing link somewhere and tries desperately to achieve a feeling of attachment. For the narcissist there at least was the mother who was able to mirror the child for a time and there was a mutuality of self-involvement; however, because of some disruption, the child was left longing for a rejoining for that special relationship. This kind of a person is always wanting others to appreciate him and understand him, and usually takes more than what was agreed upon as an indication of their unique personality traits.

The borderline, on the other hand, has had a different experience and has a different response to injury and personal feelings of being let down. Often they develop a false self, tend to want to please others, and subjugate themselves, and many have affixed "as if" personalities to themselves. Woody Alien in the film Zelig, is a good illustration of this type of personality disorder. Unlike the narcissist, they do not seek out others to be the special child, but rather to attach themselves to others in a hapless dependency to prove they are deserving and to prove they do exist. Any hint of a physical or emotional separation, such as a vacation or trial separation, a lie or betrayal, can be a reminder of the mother who has emotionally/physically abandoned her child. The borderline may learn that any differing thought or opposing idea is tantamount to rejection or betrayal, and therefore proof that he does not exist. It is puzzling to courts that, for instance, a wealthy borderline father/husband may deprive his children of child support or fail to provide medical payments, especially when it is so easy for him simply to pay. In light of the dynamics considered here, one can begin to recognize that stirring up the rage and anger in the narcissistic wife/mother (who failed in providing a safe, protective holding environment or in the attempt to provide adequate bonding) is receiving retaliatory messages. For this kind of a person, arguments are preferable than complying, which might mean coming to terms with emptiness or nothingness. From this person's subjective viewpoint, paying child support may even mean that he may lose out on an opportunity to connect with his wife and may then be cast aside. The refusal to do so may stir up highly charged feelings, offering such an individual a false sense of aliveness and sense of belonging or being needed.

In short, both would rather invest time and energy blaming/attacking or running away rather than taking charge of their lives. Letting go, coming to terms with reality, may mean facing up to their own limitations in themselves and the other. Frequently, one would rather prove the other partner wrong indefinitely, even at the expense of depriving their children visitation rights, fair time with both parents, child support, etc., via distorting/manipulating court orders, than to recognize their own personality deficits. For the borderline, developing a sense of self may mean giving up the idea that the narcissistic partner is the only one who can validate them. It may mean learning something about developing normal dependency relationships and recognizing that parasitic relationships do not lead to real bonding and growth. For the narcissist it may mean learning how to evaluate their own accomplishments without needing constant validation (https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation)/confirmation from others, and to rely more on their own thinking such as in realizing that they may not be as entitled as they imagine. A mother who is married to an alcoholic may be forced to believe that children need contact with him and that this contact has equal value to provide for the children's emotional needs. Giving up grandiosity may enable her to recognize that a child needs contact even with such a father.

Separating oneself from these infantile interactions usually requires long-term treatment with empathic intuitive therapists who are willing to throw themselves into the couple interaction and show a willingness to perform some of the self object functions. It is within this kind of environment that such individuals have an opportunity to come to terms realistically with their limitations, express real hurt feelings, face up to fears, emptiness and risk, do some reality testing/confrontation, and so forth. The next section suggests treatment plan.

III. Treatment Procedure

From my clinical experience and from cases I have reviewed from the conciliation court, I have come to believe that these individuals seem to repeat and obsessively reenact earlier painful events over and over as an expression of the unconscious wish that somehow through repetition there will be a new ending to their saga. There is a deep wish to join/rejoin with an all-encompassing mother capable of empathy, reverie, containment and perfect mirroring. There is a collective wish that someone from the outside will rescue the couple from their pain and will "see," "hear," "share," and even "feel" their pain and save them from calamity. (This often explains why children are thrown in the middle as the fantasied rescuers [Lachkar, 1984, 85]).

Dr. Bienenfeld in the following article illustrates in her case study how she fed both parents with empathic responses and offered them an opportunity to share their painful experiences. In the child stealing case, although she had very brief contact with the mother and only telephone contact with the father, she shows a willingness to throw herself into their emotional orbit. Even though it is rather unusual for a mediator or a therapist to reach out and contact clients/patients, it seems that in this unique situation it was appropriate for Dr. Bienenfeld to do so. Thus, she was able to fulfill the role of the empathic, caring role model capable of mirroring/containment but still willing to set boundaries and provide a safe protective environment.

Dr. Bienenfeld was not acting in the role of psychotherapist, and it may not be appropriate for mediators who see couples only a few times to respond in this way, and yet her behavior certainly offers us a good illustration of how that certain therapeutic interventions can be of utmost significance especially when interacting with a couple such as this. All too often, therapists/mediators are either too fearful to confront and deal with such highly charged issues, or they get lost in the couple's circular type behaviors. In most cases, the "savior/messiah" never comes. In this instance the therapist is often the last messianic hope.

Let me continue by presenting a treatment plan which I have outlined in an earlier article (1984), and then follow up with a brief clinical illustration of a couple I have been treating engaged in on-going circular behaviors.

(1) The therapist must see the couple together before transition into individual therapy in order to form a safe bond and to caution not to move into individual work only when the couple is ready. (Too early separation can constitute a "rapprochement crisis."

(2) Be aware that the couple interaction may diminish individuality, and safeguard against this through provision or boundaries/limitations and through assuring each of entitlement to his/her own subjective experience.

(3) Be aware that each experiences anxiety differently (narcissists, specialness/appreciation versus borderline, fragmentation/abandonment).

(4) The therapeutic alliance (bonding) between therapist and patient/client with the partner must take place with the member who is predominantly narcissistic; otherwise the narcissist, who has the tendency to flight and flee, can pose a serious threat to treatment (narcissistic defense of withdrawal and isolation).

(5) Apply knowledge of group formation to view these couples as a "a basic assumption group." (Lachkar, 1984)

IV. Clinical illustration: Sue and Tom

I have seen this couple a few times for evaluation. They have been married for three years, and have recently separated. Sue has moved out, claiming she wants her independence. Tom asks Sue, in this final session, if she wants a divorce or if she thinks they should stay married. Sue responds, "No, I've decided I want to live independently and do some more things in my life" (narcissistic tendency to withdraw). Tom (dominated by abandonment fears/anxieties) responds, in an angry, attacking voice, "Well, then let's get a divorce if that's what you want!" Sue (dominated by need to be mirrored and exaggerated sense of entitlement) responds, "No, I'm not ready to yet." Tom snaps back, "Well then, if you haven't decided, that means we stay married" (need to bond). l look at Tom and ask in a soft but curious voice, "Well, what about you--since Sue hasn't made up her mind, what about you deciding?" Tom, without thinking, responds, "I have." "Oh," I say, "how's that?" Tom answers, again without thinking, "I have decided to remain married." Then Sue cuts in, "Well, how can you if I don't want to?" without taking into' consideration Tom's feelings (demonstrating a lack of empathy). Again, he responds, "Well, if you haven't decided, that is the same thing as you making up your mind to stay married." l try once more to be reasonable, and ask Tom, "If Sue has difficulty in making up her mind, then why don't you file the divorce papers?" He answers in a hurt, angry tone, "Because if I file then it looks as though l want to get a divorce, and I don't!" Sue asks, "Well, what do you want to do then?" He responds more emphatically than ever, "I want to stay married!"

We go on and on like this in circles, until finally I point out to Sue that there are two Sues--one who would like very much to grow and become independent, but another who is very much bonded/connected to Tom. After much exploration, she gets in touch with the part of her that feels she is entitled to have someone like a "daddy/mommy" (Tom)in the background mirroring her while she can continue to go on with her growth and development, and it is up to Tom to provide this function. He, on the other hand, tells us about the broken ties with her, and his need to have her available are a reminder of an alcoholic mother who for most of Tom's life was in treatment facilities, and when he needed her the most she was never able to come through. His current desire is to rework this through with Sue to see if he is deserving: to ever get a sense of bonding--to replay an old drama with the hope of finding a new ending. I offer myself willingly to protect them from their circular behaviors and let them know that I, like they, can't get anywhere or learn through circular behaviors, but that what I can do is to help them with their fears and offer a safe and protective environment.

I offer my full support to Sue when she tells me that Tom tried to physically shake her up when he found she had gone out with another man. i tell Sue that if this ever happens again, she will have my full support to get a restraining order; similarly, I offer Tom my support by acknowledging that Sue has no right to let him down; if she promises to go out with Tom and then changes her mind at the last minute, l let him know he is perfectly entitled to feel angry and let down even though she offers him an explanation of a headache, and so forth.

For Sue and Tom I recommend further treatment until they are able to see their issues as separate ones, and at this time I will consider referring them to individual therapists.

In short, the role of the therapist is one of being able to perform the necessary functions which can lead to growth and development within the self structures and to experience or re-experience with them the pain, enough to get a sense of "what it feels like." Eventually this leads to the idea that they are forming a very special bond through the expression of their pain as a form of communicating early painful childhood experiences. Therapists, mediators, and counselors must safeguard against this by carefully avoiding intellectual advice or merely "talking about" behaviors. it is one thing to "talk about," but to experience pain or circular behaviors with them is another. It is the hope that a new "mommy/therapist" can in a conjoint setting provide such couples commitment through therapeutic bonding by offering and modeling empathic responses, containment and a safe protective "holding environment." Most important, the therapist must allow himself to be used as a self object so that the exhibitionistic/bonding expectations can become channeled into more realistic goals. In effect, court systems must consider/reconsider treatment programs for the many couples that appear to fill this kind of description.

V. Summary

I am aware that l am using the terms "borderline" and "narcissist" as if they were clear entities, and that I may not be doing justice to the individuals described by labeling them into these categories. However, for purposes of clarification, I have abstracted some basic characteristics from these two diagnostic categories suggesting that marital pathology in certain couples can occur when one partner is dominated by mirroring needs and the other by fears of abandonment, and I have attempted to offer technical recommendations for a treatment approach. It has been suggested that such individuals when together present a complex array of dynamic material. It has been my intention to shed some light upon what it is that bonds/binds these couples together and to develop some further understanding about their interactions. More importantly, I have tried to focus upon behaviors which I hope will stir up court officials, court counselors and others to facilitate further appropriate treatment programs. Further research in this area is needed.

References

Bion, W. Experiences in Groups. London: Tavistock, 1959. Bion, W., "Learning from Experience." In Seven Servants from Works by Eilfren Blon. New York: Jason Aronson, 1962. Blon, W. Second thoughts. New York: Jason Aronson, 1967.

Grotstein, James. Splitting and Projective Identification. New York: Jason Aronson, 1981.

Grotstein, J., "A Proposed Revision of the Psychoanalytic Concept of Primitive Mental States," Contemporary Psychoanalysis 16, pp. 479-546. New York, 1980.

Grotstein, J., "A Proposed Revision of the Psychoanalytic Concept of Primitive Mental States." Part Ii--The Borderline Syndrome. Contemporary Psychoanalysis 16, pp. 570-604. New York, 1983.

Kernberg, O. Borderline Conditions and Pathological Narcissism. New York: Jason Aronson;, 1975.

Kohut, H. The Analysis of Sell New York: international University Press, 1971.

Kohut, H. The Restoration of the Sell New York: International University Press, 1977.

Lachkar, Joan., "The Arab/Israeli Conflict: A Psychoanalytic Study." Doctoral Dissertation, International College, Los Angeles, California, 1983.

Lachkar, Joan., "Narcissistic/Borderline Couples: A Psychoanalytic Perspective to Family Therapy. International Journal of Family Psychiatry. International Universities Press, England, New York, 1984.

Lachkar, Joan., "Narcissistic/Borderline Couples: implications for Treatment." Pending publication, 1985.

Masterson, J.F. The Narcissistic and Borderline Disorders. New York: Brunner/Mazel, 1981.

Winnecott, D.W., "Psychoses and Child Care." In Collected Papers: from Paediatrics through Psycho-Analysis, pp. 219-228.

I hope that we are allowed to comment on articles. If not, I do apologize.

Wow! Although this article dealt with personalities responding to court orders and that is not where I am, I relate to the circular arguments and the *gasp* Narcissistic tendencies.

Both my husband and I had difficult childhoods. My life was fairly normal until my parents started the terrible arguments that led to the divorce. My mother became a raging alcoholic. For at the very least 5 years, I became a wild child, in my teen aged years. I traveled from state to state with an addicted female lover, unhappy, but refusing to come back home until my mother changed. She did. She entered therapy and AA. I had her back. I came back home. Matter of fact, my family lives beside her now.

My husband's parents remained together. He was the baby of 3 children. His mother is co-dependant and an addict, his father is abusive and an addict. Shortly after my husband and I had our 3rd child (his first), his parents sold their home, took off for parts unknown and we, nor any of the family, has heard from them since. The oldest sibling in my husband's family, spent many years in jail. He is transgendered and feels that it was nurture instead of nature that led him in that direction. I personally feel that it may have been a combination of both, but my thoughts are neither here nor there. The middle sibling is well into his second long term prison sentence, then there is my husband, who I do believe is BPD. He has been diagnosed with PTSD, but he stopped therapy.

This is why I am here. I want to stop this dance. Currently I am withdrawn from him. I have been doing pretty well with validating and have established some boundaries, but I don't know how to proceed from here. I need to feel connected. I guess that means that I need to be 'mirrored' but I know that he can't do that. I end up shocked, surprised and hurt, then I withdraw, just to be pulled out of it by his promises... .then the cycle continues. His abuse has been hard to take (emotional abuse, lies, passive aggressive tendencies, failure to keep a job over a long period of time) and I am afraid that I have been enabling him. I'm feeling really confused on how to proceed right now. I am sorry if this comes across as rambling. I will now go study Narcissism. I need to have some resolve. Thanks so much for this forum. I am learning a lot here. I feel validated here. I feel safe.

Probably the the most life-changing/eye-opening book I have read. I loved this book, however, it is geared more towards the psych professional than the average reader, so there may be some terminology and parts that may be difficult to understand.

I have read this book and it clearly delineates in detail the intricacies of the dysfunctional dance between the N and BPD.  The main point I came away with is that the BPD's reaction is primarily shame-based and the N's reaction is primarily guilt-ridden.  How shame and guilt react to each other is the foundation of the dysfunction of the N/BPD couple.  A very interesting read.

Interesting article, and unfortunately I can relate to this unique combination of personality disorders.

The author hit the nail squarely on the head when he described the "circular" pattern of conflict. My mom is uBPD and her husband is uNPD.

Their marriage has lasted since the sixties, and I'm still wondering how. Reading through this article has definitely shed some light on the dynamic between them. While I've witnessed them interacting with one another - with hostility just beneath the surface for many years - as they've aged it's become far more pervasive.

uBPDm would attack and criticize, while uNPDsf would withdraw and seek his jollies elsewhere. This would trigger the "abandonment" response from mom - and eventually they'd reconcile - ONLY to begin the circular process - all over again a while later.

Like two pieces is a very confusing puzzle, they are.

Thanks for posting this article.

this is a great article. i have a parent with NPD. for a second i became concerned about this because although i do not exhibit many NPD traits (i also had a therapist give me a complete series of tests on which i scored pretty low in the narcissistic category) the dynamic explained here where the person with NPD withdraws seems pretty on par with what i did. i would like to think that many people withdraw to cope with a partner that has BPD, but this doesnt really mean they themselves have NPD. i mean, after loving him through it didnt work and fighting back didnt work, my pattern became to withdraw to protect my sanity. of course this was towards the end of the relationship where i honestly didnt know what to do anymore and was rapidly losing faith.  i suppose i've often questioned my own sanity, but never ever before this relationship. i know i am not codependent either. i just wonder what drew me to him. what was the mirror. i really want to figure this out and work on it within myself so that i do not attract this type of partner again.

  About a year ago I read 'The Narcissistic/Borderline Couple' by Joan Lachkar. It was very helpful to me to see and understand the "dance" between my uBPD momster and uNPD father.

  It was validating in that it helped me understand more deeply the crazed environment that was my childhood and how I was trained to think it was my duty to take care of everyone but me, blame myself for everyone's problems and unhappiness, and let other get away with not treating me well.

  It helped me to detach further from their chaos and take better care of myself and let go of any hope that I can fix them, make them happy, or earn their love. Their lives truly are about them, only them.  I am so detached that I am almost gone from their lives. I wonder if they have noticed.

   This book is written more for marriage counselors, etc.  and has only a  little about the effects the children of the BPD/NPD couple.  But still it gave me the info I needed to move on.

Just a comment on peoples findings on the tests here and somethng else I had read about. I read that NPD and BPD relationships although eventually come to an end but also can last because of how the Narcisist is looking for that attention and admiration then withdraws when gets the bad parts of the borderline so then the borderline fearing their leaving may start their idealizing again and their dance can go back and forth and feed each other for many years possibly.

So even though either isn't healthy it actually may work for this pairing , what happened with the high scoring NPD's and their BPD partners and were they a longer laster relationship than others.

I know for me t was more myself I am a dependent so I suffered years after he left and just starting my road learning his BPD (which I hadn't known) and my role in trying to figure out what I did wrong and make it better,help him,get him to come back to his wife etc.even after he found someone else a couple years later and tossed our relationship aside I continued hoping and wanting.

Just wondering if any of the adult children of a BPD/NPD have read this book:

The Narcissistic / Borderline Couple:

A Psychoanalytic Perspective On Marital Treatment

By Joan Lachkar, PhD

I've seen it mentioned here a few times and further to a recent discussion on a thread here about the commonality of BPD/NPD pairings, (that's my family) I am curious to know if anyone has read it and found it helpful - or otherwise, as the case may be.

I too have seen it mentioned but have never read it. My mom is uBPD married 8 times so I have no experience with her mating in life with an NPD. She was able to reduce once powerdul men to sniveling, bankrupt, whipped puppies though and then would divorce them and take half of whatever they had left.

Yes, I've read it.  It's very clinical but has lots of good insight into the dynamics of BPD/NPD relationships.  I recognized a lot of my own experiences there.  It also offers practical suggestions for therapists working with BPD/NPD couples. 

I've read it--Lachkar's stuff is *very* technical, written for therapists and other professionals.  However, "How to Talk to A Narcissist" is written more for the common man/woman, and was actually very helpful for me.  My parents are/were a NPD/BPD couple, and in my opinion, their dynamics create a unique set of needs in their kids.

I have read it. Yes, very technical. It was helpful to me in giving me insight into the "dance" between my uBPDm & uNPDf.  I can better understand their self-centered focus, and acting out which created such crazy-making chaotic problems between them.  And in turn for me. Their behavior made my childhood such a difficult time and left me with no boundries, no self-worth, and no idea of what a healthy relationship was (other than to choose the company of people who were not like them    ).  I see that they had these issues long before I was born. This parentize, white-knighted, FOG-ladened, adult child realized there was nothing I could ever have done to save them from themselves. And that they were "just not that into" me from the very start of my life because they were each consumed by their own inner tormoil.

It was OK for me to give up my life long dedicated work of taking care of them and finally take care of myself.

Read bits of this along with many other publications. It is hard to comment in my situation which is totally peaceful although not without the usual differences of opinion. These do not damage the core of the relationship. All I can say is that in order to have an open dialogue in relationship, there needs to be two people present.

Very good article.

Brings home a few truths. My ex had BPD traits and I NPD traits.