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Okay, get ready to give me grief for this, but this is my gameplan. I will not block her from anything. Simple reason is, I know she will never be back. Why would she. She's kept this dirty secret from the world for over 30 yrs. Only one person knows all of the sordid details. And that's yours truly. I'm not being naive here either. The power has now officially shifted to me. And I alone will never allow her to creep back into my life.

Here's how I see it. If I could beat her down last night with the truth, she will not dear come near me for fear of hearing or reading the truth. Besides, if she does come back, in any way, shape or form, I will not engage or espond. I got out every last ounce of grief, pain, suffering, anger, revenge, everything! The tank has been emptied. It is a great feeling that never again, will her slings and arrows effect me.

I'm telling all of you, she will never come back! I am most certain of this! But, should the Monster decide to return, I will go back to the playbook that has allowed me to move away from that useless form of a human being. Never again!

My current fav song is: Godsmack - Awake. Check out the lyrics, and you might a better understanding of where my head is.

I'm not here to give you grief, far from it, but any psychologist will tell you you contradict yourself in what you just wrote: "she will never" but than immediately say "should she".

If this is as done for you as you say than why not block her?

What the damage if you do than?

But let's drop it, we're here to help each other so if this is how you feel and you feel good with that, than all the power to you.

Sir, you are correct. I did contradict myself, didn't I? Didn't mean to. I guess I was looking more at a global scheme of things. I really do believe I've heard the last of her. That's why there's no need to block her. I was merely specualting that, shold she return, there's plenty more of what she got last night.

I just have this funny feeling that, with me having this knowledge of all her dirty little secrets, and the fact that she did not deny ANY of it, leads me to believe that she knows, I will not fall prey to her ways anymore. I think I put the fear into her last night. She simply tried to defelect everything. But I would not have any of that B.S... Plus, bringing up some of the most horrific things in her life, I know, will keep her from ever looking this way again. I think that's what she wants as well.

I believe she might think, hey, if he's out of my life, then I can keep my secrets to myself, and no one else will ever have to know.

You just need to vent a little more, and that's logical, read how many "she's" in your last post.

So we make a deal, next post you're gonna write is gonna be just "me's", not one "she", is not as easy as it sounds.

How do you feel?

I feel pretty damn good this morning. It's a beautiful day here. I'm on my game here at work (finally). I have made the decision that no one will ever make me feel this way again. I am refocusing my energies on the things in this world that are going to make me happy. I've gotten to this point by all of the support that I received, both here and from family, & friends, and those whose I've met along the extremely difficult journey.

My life is about being positive and staying true o the values set before me by those who have led by example. Mostly, the wonderful folks here who have had the courage to share thier stories. It inspires me to do the same, and never look back. No need to carry a ball & chain if you don't need to, right?

BillP:

At this very moment... .when you are feeling this "high"... .rather than think all is well and the ruminations (demons/fleas) won't return, now is the perfect time to jot down or record all the reasons why you are strong right now... .so when you hit those weak moments, you can reflect on when you were stronger.

Trust me... .you'll need that for survival.

F1

Hey Bill...

Glad you made the decision to hit the send button, and that you feel so relieved... .it can be that it was your closure, and that it will work out fine for you this way... and for your sake I hope that she will never return to you, or that you will ever hear a sound again from her and that you frightened her enough to stay away...

I hope your relief continues, that you will stay much lighter that you were before sending it...

I can relate, did it myself many many times, and felt so much better afterwards... .

But promise... when it does start gnawing after a few days... .post here... .cause we all have been where you are, and maybe you are one of the less where it does work this way... if not... if this creepy feeling will start nagging in your head... if the voices of your head vs gut start to argue again... gnawing its way in... .post here... .x

I'd like to add one last thing if you don't mind. There are 2 main reasons why I am extremely confident as to knowing that the ex will never come back.

1 is: I let her know that I wished her better success on her next suicide attempt. If she is successful, it will the first and only thing she would have accomplished on her own, and that the world would be better off without her. As she is a predator, and will continue to do to others what her parents did to here. Which is, to ruin lives!

2 and this is the most difficult of all. She did confirm that she was "servicing" her dad when he passed. This is very difficult to post, and is was more so when I confronted her on it. She will never look my way because I know all of the disguisting vile things her dad made her do. Even when he was bed-riddened and on oxygen tanks. To know that while I thought I was making love to the woman that I dedicated my entire life to being with, she would get up, go into another room, and do the same thing with her dad. I can only imagine how painful emotionally that had to be for her. To say the least.

It is for these 2 main reasons, I know, she will never come back. She could never look me in the face, and deal with what I now know about this situation.

I get no joy out of any of this, and it not painful for me anymore, but it just makes me realize how sad her entire life has been. I will however, continue to pray that maybe, someday she will get the help she deserves.  And yet, I know for myself to continue to grow and move forward in this world, she cannot ever have one more second of my life. And now, she won't.

Thanks again everyone for all that you have done for me. From the bottom of what's left of my heart, I do appreciate it, and thank you. May you all be blessed.

Oh God... .that is so horrifying... .how could she be different than she is when that is your secret... how hard for her it must be to live with herself... .I am sorry for your pain Bill... but I am truely sorry for hers too... .I am really sorry for both of you... .:'(

And yet, I remember something my T told me very early on. He said: if you want to make sure that ppl with this illness don't come back, you have to be as cold and as callous as they be. So, with that little nugget of knowledge, I made the very difficult decision to press this particular issue. And I knew something like this had happened in her past because of certain things during sex that always occurred.

It is so embarrassing for me, that I will never share those details with anyone ever in my life. That piece of wonderful experience I get to take with me to the grave. I know alot of guys would have dumped her butt after the suicide attmept, and they would have been right to do so. But, I thought, I could show her that all men do not treat women like that. And that I could be a very good attentive partner. Who loving and caring. And for my troubles, I get to deal with these lifetime scars.

A friend told me that, mmaybe if I slapped her around a little she'd still have wanted me around. Pretty sick to think these things. It just amazes me how these ppl can treat so only want to be so understanding, and caring for them, have a way of treating us like something they have on the bottom of their shoes.

Yeah, she's coming back. When hell freezes over she will!

I hope you all don't mind, but a quick update & question for you all. I talked to a T last night, and told him verbatim what I sent in the emails to the ex and her responses. He said, in his 37 yrs of dealing with ppl with mental issues he had never heard of anyone delivering such an email/letter like what I did. He said most ppl get emotions involved in such things. I was void of virtually all emotions, I let the ex know that the boundaries and walls are set to not allow her back in ever! He commended me on staying on point, sticking to the facts, and not waivering.

From her responses he told me, no question about it, everything I mentioned was truthful because of the way/manner in which she responded. He told me this is normal behavior responses from those who choose to not accept or admit the truth, but try to deflect and project, as opposed to admit or deny. He said, man, you hit the bullseye dead on! However, he did scold me for being childish with the last few emails I sent her. Yeah, guilty here. I was just being a dink! I was actually just goofing around. But I was wrong for that.

Now, here's what he told me, and I 'd like to get your response(s), if you don't mind. He said, I know most will tell you she's coming back, but I'm going to tell you why she's going to come back. Because she has the exact same relationship with you as she did with her dad. She loved her dad because he protected her & took care of her financially. So did you. She hated him for what he did to her, but was too afraid to confront him. For fear of losing that protection & financial stability. She hates you because you know the whole truth about her abuse, but more importantly, you know who she is, and why she is that way. You can't be manipulated by her again. The power or control, has now been shifted to you.

Right now, he said, she doesn't want to be 1000ft. near you. However, in time, she will come back. That is, unless she is so unable to humble herself to come back and talk to you. But more liely than not, she will rationalize that you were right about what you wrote, and ask for your forgiveness. And she will do it with an Oscar winning performance. However, here's the twist. She will do it with real genuine feelings for you. But keep in mind, they will not last long.

I welcome your responses.

Your therapist is right

Left

Agreed!  Read these boards... .it may take a while (years sometimes), but they eventually come back.  Have you decided what you will do?  Will you remain NC?

Crystal, I will remain n/c. I'm done with the ex. I got what I need off my chest. Sadly, I also got confrimation on details that will horrify me for the rest of my days. But, I am certain the Monster will never return, and that I have nothing left to say to her. I am tired, just plain exhausted from this. And yet, the relief feels really good. Like alot of stress has bee removed from my shoulders.

:)

And so I hope you can begin to heal and move forward in peace.   x

 If she contacts you will you ignore it and not contact her?

Having an enmity that's active is still engaging with someone.

Bill, that is not something you should be sharing publicly, regardless of how you feel about your ex or how she treated you.  It serves no purpose.


If that's true, then please stop gloating about how she will never come back (you really don't know that) and how much better you are than her.  You need to be better for YOU.




Like anker said, having enmity is still engaging.  Stop enagaging.  Work on you.  She's gone, right?

Absolutely! n/c means n/c. No reason anymore to engage the ex.

Now, as far as sharing certain information publicly. Is this not a forum to discuss what we've experienced, feelings, etc... .If exposing the most hurtful thing I will ever experience to the folks here in an effort to purge the negative feelings, and it helps me with my recovery, isn't that a positive thing for me? It was not intended to hurt or offend anyone. And if it has, I truly am sorry. At the time of the posting, I was so devastated and hurt but the confirmation of this information. While also only imaging what the ex had to go through to do what she did, and how she will never get better just from dealing with that one episode. I'm sorry for allowing my emotions to get the better of me when decivering what information to share. I promise, it won't happen again.

Ssg I think you were a bit harsh. It was probably something bill needed to say. Its an anonymous forum. Carrying that inside him may have been just to much weight.  If it provided some release from the pain that caused him I see no problem in that. 

Agreed. We end up holding on to so many of their secrets ourselves that it makes letting go even more difficult. Im in that boat anyway

yep, like the saying goes, we're only as sick as our secrets.  Not an issue, Bill. 

I learned of some secrets a few nights ago! I came here! I wont use her secret to destroy her, but I'm not going to keep that stuff locked up inside either! It needs to be expressed so we don't harbor the guilt too. This place is great... .anonymous!

I understand why you did what you did bill!  No harm here!

Left

I respectfully disagree.

How would you feel if you told someone a secret like that and they blabbed it on a message board?  If Bill really needed to release it, he could have told a T or someone that he trusts will keep it private.  If anything, his wording was harsh: "servicing her father".  I understand he is angry, however blabbing his ex-partner's secret to a bunch of strangers on the Internet is not the way to work through that.  Some things should stay private.

I am in no way sticking up for the ex, as she obviously did very hurtful things to Bill.  Revealing her sexual abuse is not going to change any of that, so why say it?

It wasn't his secret, though.  That was my point. 

It is important to know that I have discussed all the issues & questions I've dealt with, with my T. He did not seem to have a problem with me discussing any of it, as long as I was comfrotable with releasing this painful detail. For the record, I am not mad at the ex. I hate the illness, I hate what her parents did to her, but mad at the ex, no, not at all. I only have empathy for her, and I do pray all the time that there will come a point in her life she seeks help for this. My feeling is though, she will keep living this way, and take this pain & suffering to her grave.

Her illness became my illness to deal with when she inflicted her wicked ways upon me. Her secret became my secret when it affected the r/s. None of this is easy to discuss, whether in private with a T, or on a forum such as this. I made the decision to bear these things as a way to help gain closure, and purge the pain of what I had long suspected. There is no glory in revealing such horrific details on a forum such as this. But if this a realm for us to use. and to help each other in the recovery process, I felt my pain, shame & embarassment may help someone else deal with a similar situation, I am fine with that. Not proud. But fine with that.

Her illness is hers. Not yours to deal with anymore. 

I hope being here gives you the support you need you build a healthy life now

I found it was better also to let some of those secrets during the relationship known to others (family and friends). It was best so I could vent, couldnt be blackmailed and avoid distortion campaigns by explaining the reasons for leaving before she could and broke the illusion of what our 'relationship' was to outsiders. There were many things I'm ashamed of also but it was one of those necessary steps

Yes, in the therapeutic environment, not the world at large.


You are very (and understandably) angry with your ex and you need to be honest with yourself about that.  


Someone with empathy doesn't reveal secrets the way you did.  My ex and I parted on bad terms but that doesn't give me free reign to blab publicly about all the things he told me in confidence.  What you did was a violation, as much as the abuse she suffered.


Then why do it?  It's very self-serving and it doesn't change anything.  Your ex is who she is, she's done the things she's done, nothing will change that.  All you can do is change yourself.

I'm sorry some of you see me as harsh, however I see "facing the facts" as just that, and not "facing the facts as long as they're sugarcoated and I get to violate someone else's privacy (reveal their secrets) at the same time".  

If I get banned, so be it.

The details here were not for the the world stage, but for this community of ppl like us, who have been through a very traumatic ordeal. And the purpose was not to embarass the ex or anyone who has been in this situation. Besides, is this forum not a venue for therapy?  Getting this off my chest has helped me close the door on the toxic r/s I had with the ex. If the ends justify the means, and after all, this is about my health and well being, then why not?

It's easy to not share such disguisting things, and bury our heads in the sand about. Why shouldn't we, in day and age, be able to discuss things such as this. We all know that there are alot of twisted ppl out there who do these things to their children and leave a permanent scar emotionally. And then the children leaves scars on their "victims". No matter how embarassing, we need to confront those demons, and topics of taboo so that we learn, understand, and move forward. Not back into the dark ages.

And as far as being self-serving. Absolutely! This is not about the Monster. this is about my recovery, and what I need to do to heal, and move forward in a more positive & healthy way. And facing the facts is what I have been dealing with for the past several months, and now, it's time to put all of it where it properly belongs, behind me, forever!

Is this place not a therapeutic environment?

And I think it was his secret.  Just like my ex,  I think they told us so that it became our burden to bear rather than them have to deal with it.  Protect me,  comfort me,  fix this for me.  That being the case... .we have to release that from ourselves.  It's not ours to take on and the only way to get rid of it is to let it out. 

this is one place where I'm comfortable with letting that happen. 

Although a T is a probably the ideal situation,  not every T has been thru the gauntlet like the individuals here.  They don't have first hand knowledge of the situations we've been thru.  I'm more

comfortable right now in the knowledge and experience here.  That's just my take on it. 

Left

I can relate with BillP.  My ex disclosed some graphic details of her past very similar to what BillP described.  Knowing those things bothered me, because it happened, because of how it effected her, and because of how it blended into my rescuing behavior.  IMO, it's the worst thing a father can do to their offspring, and I'm putting that mildly.  

I suspect some sort of abuse from my wife's father on her when she was young.  He committed suicide, so I never bring up the subject.  I believe this is the root of her problem.  I don't think she has the strength to address it.

For most of us we have been more than cool enough, patient enough, and although I agree with SSG in some parts, meaning don't allow yourself to get to ugly Bill, getting it off your chest is part of the healing.

I could mess up my ex's whole world with 2 letters and an email to the right people, or tell everyone what a monster she really is, but I'm only mentioning this cause in moments of anger these thoughts cross your mind once or twice, cause I would never.

But they got us here, ok we need to look at ourselves why we let them, but still.

And she knows that, she always goes for the good guys, cause believe me there are people out there that would have handled this way differently, they wouldn't even join a forum like this, she would just end up in the river, so to speak.

Had she met a different guy this would not have turned out so easy for her as it does now, and neither would Bill's ex.

A few ugly lines of a forum after years of this, count your blessings, woman, really.

These people are sick, we know that now but there have been times where I would ask myself crying in bed how people can be that mean, so so mean.

In my case my exBPD's last boyfriend threatened to have her killed when I just met her.

I made contact with this guy and told him that guys that tell women stuff like that, and my GF on top of that are in a world of hurt.

Now I just feel sorry for him, he got pushed to the same edge as me and was not as strong as me, he just didn't know what to do with these feelings so he vented them in the wrong way.

He should have come here.

And I read stories here, the BPD moves on and gets a guy after us that gets abusive with her, do I condone it, no never, but it's a risk factor when your walk this earth the way BPD's do.

I even told my ex before I knew about the BPD: "had you been a guy that did what you did to a female friend of mine... ."

Of course I'm better than that, but I think it's nothing more than normal for a person to have these thoughts after this ordeal, as long as they are just thoughts and don't leave this forum.

Some handle it better than others and it also depends on the situation.

I've been really cool with her, never got in her way, I've been really sportive and I come here and vent that anger, as did Bill.

Bill IS pissed and he has a right to be, plus we have no idea which person he is talking about, there's no privacy involved.

If you would tell this stuff to actual people in the real world that are not really close to you, but close to her for instance, that's another matter, you can never win doing that, nor should you.

But the fact of the matter is that we all pushed away our real selves for a longer period of time, our souls have been chewed on, so some really ugly stuff is gonna come out and as long as we do it here, well, it's ok in my book.

I do agree with SSG that you have to own up to some of the feelings you have, Bill, and do something about that, some of your posts have denial written all over it.

But you have a T for that.

Other than that, scream, smear and curse away here.

The answers to your "why", SSG here is helplessness, it's a feeling like no other in the world, we just have different ways of handling that.

Had I been just a few percentages weaker, well... .

I suspected mine was dealing with some sort of abuse all along.  She never said anything about it until last week.  Always blamed it on her father being bi-polar and leaving the house when she was 12.  Not that his leaving didn't play a big part of this,  but I think that was easier for her to admit than the other ugly stuff she's endured.  

Left

SSG I think you have made your point.  We might not all agree on what is "okay" to share here, but we can agree that we are all "allowed" to vent in whatever way we need to ... .

I now regret not bringing up her father's suicide now and trying to get her to talk about it.  She once said she had something she needed to tell me and I didn't push her.  Quite frankly, I was afraid.  I didn't want the violent rage from her, so I left it alone.  I am not a mental healthcare professional so didn't want to poke at something I couldn't deal with. 

My BPDw has tpold me about past physically abusive boyfriends who hit her.  That is just wrong, but now I know why.  She has tried to push me saying and doing horrible things.  I never even came close to hitting her, but boy is it frustrating. 

I guess maybe there is some anger still left inside of me. But it is not towards the ex. No, it would be towards her parents. Because they made her the Monster she is today. And her being victimized, has allowed her to victimize others, such as myself.

And maybe I'm still bleepin' angry because I guess I'm sick and tired of hearing how, more likely than not, she will return at some future point. I want this whole nightmare to go away once and for all. I have too much at risk for myself as I try to put my life back together you want to look, or go back.

I still feel vulnerable to the ex because the next week or so is going to be difficult for me to deal with. But, I am doing everything I can to stay active and keep my mind focused on other things. The folks around me have been great. They're getting me out of the house, and I'm doing things that I either never done before, or haven't done in a long time.

The ex does not have a way of getting to me. She has been blocked from emailing me. She doesn't know where I live, or the LAN line. The cell phone is going to be changed in the next few months when the contract ends. So, other than seeing me in person, she will not be able to get to me. I'm so confident that I will never see/speak to her again, I have made a friendly wager with some friends who believe the Monster will return.

Exactly.

We spend all this time looking into their worlds, trying to be good guys, seeing as to why they did what they did.

We come here and talk about it, finding ways to deal with it in a healthy way, even looking at ourselves if we could have done better, even feel guilty.

Some people might not be that STRONG, they handle it differently, worse, but than we also should be able to look in the reasons for these guys coming to such a point.

I don't condone violence against women, I'm a strong fighter against it but boy did she try and get me to do so on many occasions.

I can remember coming home one night a little drunk, after she raged at me at a club for being gone for to long, 15 minutes to get cigarettes and I told her to go home without me.

I come home and she attacks me out of the blue, threw a cup of coffee at my head, I just walked away to the bedroom, she came in after me and hit me in the head and I mean hard.

All I could see was stars, that hard.

So I said: "that's 2 you do it a 3rd time and i'll drop you where you stand", she lashed at me again and I dropped her.

I just defended myself, I didn't hit her or anything, I'd never hit a woman, was never in a physical situation like this with a woman.

I just redirected her blow into her doing a 90 degrees and hitting the floor flat-out.

And there's not a day that goes by I don't wish I didn't walk away a 3rd time.

I've just never been in such a situation.

She called friends of mine, went to my mother and tell them I hit her, but they just said: "that's a first than".

I felt so guilty about that night for such a long time.

Either way, Bill's way is not that bad, it's still more than a half full glass.

Somebody here has written that BillP doesn’t have the right to tell some secrets belonging to his ex. But this forum is anonymous and we all here are protected and safe as well as the facts we tell.

The aim of this forum is to share feelings with people who are on the same boat, more or less. Feeling not alone anymore, being helped by others, having the courage to tell about ourselves etc. This is part of healing. Some find this useful some useless, it doesn’t matter. Who finds this useful has the right to use this tool the best they can. And this tool is made of people, people who suffer, who have suffered, and who have experimented mental and/or physical abuse.

Recovering from mental and/or physical abuse is hard. BPD is a serious mental illness as we all know, and the effects last. In addiction BPD people have experimented themselves mental and/or physical abuse and tell their partner the pain etc., that’s why the break up is so difficult. Many of us, more or less, experimented some forms of abuse or neglect too. So we are talking about r/s in which there’s so much pain and unconscious sharing of pain, which makes the r/s so strong and deep and the bonds so hard to break.

I would like to stress – even if I know it is not necessary here because I’ve always seen here people are extremely attentive and understanding, that many people here have experimented mental and/or physical abuse, which is something which shakes the person to its foundations. What BillP is doing here is very important. Telling to this forum – and to himself, the most difficult thing – the roots of his pain means facing his pain, and I think he has the right to do it as well all people here. It’s part of healing.

Hear, hear.

Let's get back to Bill :)

Bill, you talk a lot about how you don't want her to come back, how it angers you when you hear that "they" always come back.  Sometimes ex-lovers do, sometimes they don't, same as with non-disordered people.  Spending this much time protesting that you don't want her to come back doesn't exactly sound honest or healthy.  Same as stating that you aren't angry at her, when you made this statement:


This won't get better until you get honest with yourself.  x

A couple of questions:

1)  I don't think I caught this - what was her response to your email like?  Angry?  Happy to hear from you?

2)  You spend a lot of time here talking about how you are sure she won't come back.  Just as an exercise:  Under what possible circumstances would you want to see her again?  How would she act?  What would she say?

We make a big mistake by making our minds the enemy - by denying how we feel and what we think.  It is okay to miss her, after all the bad, and it is okay to be angry - to a point.  After that point, we need to realize that while our partners did vile things, the reason those things hurt so much is that we gave them way too much power during the relationship.  We usually continue to give them that power after it ends, as well.

I denied after the split.  In fact I denied a lot of what this thread is geared around... .her coming back.

My denial came in the form of laughing outwardly at my T when he asked me if I was prepared for when she came back.   I thought he was joking,  his face and reaction to my cackle said otherwise.


I'm completely guilty of this, Mousse.  Still... .a year later.

Left

Well said M... .

Don't deny or fight your emotions, accept them and move forward.  You only create more inner discord by not accepting... .

Hi Bill,

I agree with Mousse... .I believe one of the hardest things to do is to see where we are in denial... often only another person can see that in the things we write down... being alone in your head, doesn't make it clearer most of the time.

I also think that it is ok, to be angry at her, why not, she did cause a lot of pain.

To miss her is ok too, you loved her, at least thought you loved her, and it is a normal human reaction to miss some one or something.

Sharing secrets can certainly be a big part of the healing, walking around with secrets,whether it are yours or hers, need to get out before they become bigger and bigger...

And although it is a horrible secret, and explains a lot about her, there is no need to hide it anymore, no body is done harm by sharing it.

So now that you are very relieved by emailing her and sharing some of her secrets, what is next for you...

Beneath all the anger and the pain, there mostly is the anger towards ourselves which need to be resolved, forgiving yourself for playing along, finding out why you stayed, why you endured the abuse...

Being totally honest with your self, your own motivation to stay in the relationship will give you a lot of insight in your own behavior and/or patterns...

Have you ever considered this has to do with your younger years/parents, and are you open for the theory that we are looking for re-living our past, and find partners to do it all over again but this time, to bring it to a good end ?

Again, there is nothing wrong with first dealing with your anger... say that you are not mad at her, not at all, is nearly impossible in relationships with pwBPD/NPD and how they end.

There is lot going on inside you at this time, take your time to resolve things... it does take a lot of time... x

Good  one m&m.

Let me ask Bill this as just a start: "do you miss her?"

If I have made the decision that what will be best for my life is to not have any contact with the ex, how is this not healthy or honest? Why would I want to relive the worst experience of my life over again?

As far as the statement about wishing her better luck on her next suicide attempt, that is me speaking to the “Monster”, as she has often referred to herself. I know the 2-sides of this person. The woman who I fell in love with, and who was victimized by her parents, and the person her parents made her into, the Monster.

The woman I fell in love with, and I quote her: “will never come out again”. I believe her, and I don’t want to have anyone with this type of an illness in my life, for any reason, let alone to spend the rest of my life with her. I have heard & read many stories of how folks live with these ppl for years. I cannot & will not allow myself to do that.

As far as her response to my email, pure deflection & and anger on her part. The T believes, as I do, because she either does want to, or is unable to confront the truth about all of the things in the email. I was surprised that I didn’t get a “this is my life, don’t tell me how to live it”, or, “I have no idea where you’re getting your information from, but it’s wrong”, type of response.

There are no circumstances in which I will ever want to speak or see the ex. I’ve learned to be as cold & callous as she is. Done means done! So I don’t give a damn how she reacts, let alone what would come out of her lying mouth.

The ex is 2 ppl basically. I vent against the Monster because I hate what she is. The other one, I pray that, if she doesn’t get the help she needs, sooner or later her internal suffering will end once and for all.

Hi Bill,

I think you are very much entitled to make such a decision, you don't have to have an ill person in your life, if you don't wish to... that is for everyone different... I couldn't do it either, but some can... I can only respect their choice.

It seems to me, and don't want to offend you, that you avoid to answer questions in "do you miss her"... you don't have to answer but it can help to find some insight in your own feelings.

Right now, through your post, there is a lot of anger, bitterness, and almost hate and again, very understandable.

Done is done... ofcourse the relationship is done... but where does it leave you...

Can you switch the button and move on that easily, do you grieve, do you have ways to release that anger.

It is unfortunately that all pw with personality disorders seems to have two personalities, the great one and the hated one, but it is one person.

And it is very understandable that she can't face her own fears, if she could, she would have been in therapy... it's the illness of denial as we all know.

But in a way we all have some kind of two personalities, however most of us are capable to work through the stages of mourning to become one person again, and it is very necessary to acknowledge our own part in the relationship.

We are not that innocent, we played our part too and if you refuse to see that, the anger will build up somehow and will come out in other ways, if you don't grieve you will become very bitter, and if you don't change it will happen again...

So for your own health, it is recommendable at least to figure out why you ended up with her, for now you seem to shift all of the blame to her, and although we all understand that very much, it is not what you should do, it is what they do.

Please take some time to think it over and don't close all the doors to your heart... x

Yes I’ll agree, there is still anger. But it’s at the illness, her parents, and to a certain degree….her. To answer the question: “do I miss her”? No, what is there to miss. The whole thing was a scam.  But for me, at this point, I just want to not deal with this anymore. I feel I have no choice but to turn off the switch that says, not another thought! I need to do it for my own health mentally. But more important, if I really want to move past this, I need to just shut it all out.

I refuse to grieve for the Monster. If there is any grieving to do, it’s because I’m come to the realization, I’ve wasted the last 2yrs of my life. That….is aggravating to know! But, if I have to be cold & callous for the interim to move past this part of my life. If it allows me to attain the goals I’ve set forth for myself, and give me a better life, then that is what I must do.

Unless one enjoys the impediment, then no - I'd agree.

BillP, I'm very glad you've achieved peace with this deeply troubling relationship. There is absolutely no way anyone can predict - whether or not she will return. Your therapist, and the good people who've responded so far are all now in your "life" because they care about you. Sure, you pay your "T" for "services rendered," and I imagine you wouldn't do so more than once unless you felt a (supportive) connection there.

As you already know - the preponderance of our resources here indicate that she will return. Most of our members (who've split from their SO's) have endured years of "push-pull" behaviors, and they're just trying to ensure that you aren't setting yourself up for a fall, later on down the line.

You are the most qualified person here - when it concerns your ex's behavior patterns. You've lived with her, therefore you know her better than anyone else. I can identify with your mindset, and you strike me as being a pragmatic person. If my sense is correct, I believe you'll be mindful that - her return is a possibility, however remote it might be is - obviously left to your best judgment.

I also believe you'll have a plan in place to (counter it) should you be forced to cope with it in the future. My remaining concern is supporting you with any lingering feelings of anger. Hopefully, your T is helping in this regard as well. Having danced with the anger bear most of my adult life, I can assure you that the last thing you'd want to happen is internalizing it - and holding onto it forever. It can and often does kill its host.

My favorite quote about anger - is that it's like drinking poision yourself, then expecting someone else to die.

The details you've shared are shocking. However, they're part of your reality - and congratulations on coping with them, too. Hang in there, and I sincerely hope you have a wonderful Holiday Season this year.





cross=posted

Exactly and that's why I asked the question cause its a start.

Am I angry?

yes

Do I have a right to be?

Yes.

Do I have moments when I wish she was laying next to me right now?

Also true.

Do I feel guilty cause I could have done 1 or 2 things differently?

Yes again.

Would that have changed anything though?

No!

These are the kinds of questions you gotta ask yourself and when you start crying like a maniac at one or more of these kinds of questions that's when the honesty and thus the healing can begin.

It also seperates a non from the BPD cause this something they can never do.

But that I believe is the way.

Im so angry, I'm so hurt, i feel so guilty and I love her so much and miss her dearly and I go right through all of these emotions and clean them up.

Allow yourself to feel it all.

The last thing you need now is pride, that stuff'll kill ya.

;-)

You can see it as a waste.  Or you can see it as a gift.  For better or worse, those two years have served to make you the person you are today.  You can become a happier, healthier, stronger person because of the experience.  That's a precious gift.

I do see the last 2yrs of my life as wasted. Why? Because none of this needed to happen! I may have had the choice to move out here to be with the ex. But the ex had already made her plans & decided to what she did to me long before I got here. I know that my life is now, and will always be better without her around. She absolutely sucked the life out of me. Not by my choice, but by her actions!

I just had a long, and I mean long conversation with a woman who knows of this illness very well. She told me, the ex will never be back. Because, I embarrassed her with the email. Because it detailed all of what she went through, and because of close I was to letting her know exactly who she is. It is for this reason, the ex will not return.

I must admit, I do feel better knowing this. If that is what it takes to makes sure she never entertains the thought of coming back, well then, I guess I’ve succeeded. She did however, mention that maybe folks here see things from a different perspective, and have a different way of looking at how someone with this illness thinks. She said that until you live inside this illness, to make certain assumptions, and have certain theories, is not how those such as her, and the ex, really think.

If that is what it takes to makes sure she never entertains the thought of coming back, well then, I guess I’ve succeeded.

Why do you think you have any control over what goes on in her head?  Why would you want that control?  Why does that make more sense than just not picking up when and if she does call?  

Why is it better to see her as two women - basically, splitting her - rather than seeing her as one woman with many different angles, some of which are contradictory and some which are destructive?

We don't get better as people, and we don't get better at relationships, until we confront our own need for control, for idealization, for black and white.  You are here, and you are trying.  We are nudging  :)  The nudges we all get at bpdfamily.com don't feel great, but they are ultimately good for us  

Everyone here talks about their experiences not assumptions either way if she does or doesn't if if no concern to you the question for you is why that is an issue for you as you keep mentioning it.

Do you fear it, do you secretly want to, the opposite what?

Anything you say no should be followed with a look inside as to the why.

That's it, nothing more, its  only about you now.

Borderlines do not appear emotionally “unavailable”- they mirror, which makes them appear very attractive, very available and “wanting.” Underneath this lurks a “runs silent, runs deep” operating system that moves in their mind like a chess match, isolating them from others as they use people like board pieces in a self fulfilling prophecy of persecution.

Borderline personality disorder is about that persecution. It is about scapegoating.

Borderlines*are* listening to critical voices, but they keep these voices under wraps until they can ventriloquise them out of others mouths.  (That means that a voice is coming out of your mouth but it’s not you talking- it’s their parent.)

Why would a Borderline want to be with someone who reminds them of their parent? Answer: So they can re-live the childhood scapegoating and criticism and FINALLY overcome it. Unfortunately, they cannot do this without cruelly getting revenge on the substitute parent *the person they perceive as the “Monster”* -OR- by ending their lives as a final act of retaliation.  Suicide will show everyone and teach them a lesson.

Borderline psychosis dwells in the fantasy of overcoming slavery- and works itself out through the actions and reactions of “interpersonal relationships.”  Borderlines choose reproductions of the hard copies they have on file in the perceptions of rewarding/withdrawing objects (that’s me and you.)

Rather than create a SELF- the Borderline child created a subservient mask of adhering to others in order to EXIST.  In their adult relationships, they choose people that they perceive are strong enough to host them like a parent would, but without the problems they experienced in childhood.

The bond never holds, because according to the Borderline, their parent was controlling and critical and so are you. The option of walking alone- and being responsible for themselves is so foreign and so frightening- that the first two reactions have become the brainwashed day to day operational- getting revenge for transgressions or offing themselves in retaliation.

Now, how does telling a Borderline that you hope they are successful in their next suicide attempt help you not become the Monster parent? Sending an email like this not only plays into the disorder but force feeds it.  :light:

Thanx again 2010 you really know hot to get to the core of the matter.

So in essence we got the revenge they wanted to inflict on their parents cause in the end they realise a partner could never fulfill that role?

Can you tell me why I and some other people here met these people in one of our weakest stages?

Why do they seek us when we're weak, even hate it when we get better, visit a gym, get a better job etc.?

This is bills post but maybe this can help him too, in my case my ex prays on the weak.

She asked me to be with her to heal and I realise now that the moment I got better the mess began and all her actions were almost to get me in the same emotional state I was in when I met her.

I believe that it actually pisses her off that although Im hurt Im doing pretty ok, at least to the outside world.

The reason I was this weak at the time was because of my divorce but that was because of issues I had to solve with myself, and those issues are done for good.

Last time we got back together she said: "yeah you're really doing great aren't you, you never loved me like you loved your ex wife".

So I thought ok let's try and be honest one last time and I told her I was in therapy because of the grieve I was feeling from her as well.

She couldn't believe it but I could swear I heard a happy tone and that's when she started talking about getting back together.

Doesn't that go against looking at a strong parental figure?

Or do they pick a person that will leave eventually like the mother and or father did?

Not that I'm superman, far from it but the men she picked before and after me, well... .

Why do you think you have any control over what goes on in her head?  Why would you want that control?  Why does that make more sense than just not picking up when and if she does call? 

I don’t think I have control over what the ex thinks, and I would never want to. No more than I would want anyone to control me. And yet, I was fooled by a Monster! No more than I could convince her to get the help she needs. I still stick to the belief like the woman I spoke with earlier today. She’s not coming back. I’ve humiliated her, in her mind. And if that keeps the Monster at bay, then I’ve succeeded. Right?

Why is it better to see her as two women - basically, splitting her - rather than seeing her as one woman with many different angles, some of which are contradictory and some which are destructive?

To me, that’s just semantics. But if it smoothes the lines for this discussion, she’s 1 woman with many angles. Bottom line though, mental illness or not, she’s a predator! One can make the case that it’s the illness that makes them do what they do. However, from the time they have a conscience thought that they are doing wrong, and they choose not to seek help for the illness, BAM! That makes them a predator!

As far as either wanting her to come back or secretly wanting her back in my life? If she comes back now, she gets the n/c treatment. As far as wanting her back, never! However, if she sees me in person, and tries to engage me, I’ll be honest here, not sure if she’ll be standing after she says hello. Just being honest here. Yet I know as time passes on, the likelihood of anything like that happening lessens.

2010 – Great post! It has been a while since I have read up on scapegoating.

Now, how does telling a Borderline that you hope they are successful in their next suicide attempt help you not become the Monster parent? Sending an email like this not only plays into the disorder but force feeds it.

Well, after living with the Monster saying many times a month for a year: “I wish I were dead”, I’m at a point where I wish the same. That is why I was her better success on the next one. Reality – she doesn’t have what it takes to actually do it! Those who really want to commit suicide, not matter what anyone says or does, completes the act if that’s their true desire. Unlike the Monster who uses for attention. In case anyone hasn’t figured it out. I guess I’m just sick & tired of hearing about the what if’s and maybe’s. If what I’ve done by sending the email to the Monster stops her from looking in my direction, that’s all I want. I’ll stick to the belief that until she standing, knocking on my front door, I refuse to believe that a return is even remotely possible!

Bill,

I'm sorry if this offends I'm not saying this with intention of that rather making a correlation.

Look at what she dealt with for so long... .and she kept going back to that "humiliation".

Do you think the "humiliation" you caused her with stating facts that she already knew of, in an email, will bee enough to keep her from coming back?  You've essentially become the perfect host.

Off of her and onto you for a second: 

What role did you play in this relationship?  We've given a lot of attention to her and deflected away from you.  You'll start to really get a grasp of this thing once you truly begin to find answers to that question.

Here with you,

Left

left, do I think that I've humiliated her more than what's she's been through? Please allow me to answer it this way, and see if this makes sense to you. No one, and I mean no one, knows all of the secrets of her past but me. Why me? Have no idea. You'd need to ask the Monster why she'd share all of these things with me, and not anyone else. Her secret is out, in her mind. And she fears that I will tell those closest to her. Big reason for her to have hate for me.

What was my role in the r/s? Sucker? Moron? Idiot for staying after the suicide attempt? Take your pick, or add what you feel is necassary. What did I do in the relationship. Tried to build a good life for both of us, by making descent pay with an eye on getting a better paying job. Took care of the house. Cleaned the yard which had not been done since it was built over 20yrs ago. Gave her every freakin' dime I had. Showered her with love, affection, and as much attention as humanly possible. What a hit_ I was! What the hell was I thinking?

I get to live with that shame & embarassment of what she's put me through. I get to live with the knowledge of what her parents did to her, and she has done to me. I look at it this way, her parents ruined her life. her illness ruined our life together. Plain & simple.

Hi Bill,

I see you are extremely hurt, but all you are doing now is scapegoating too... .and you are so angry with yourself for allowing all

that happened...

She is not coming back you say... ok, she won't, she will never ever lay an eye on you, or speak to you, now that  you know that, and heard that from some one who, like you say, knows everything about this illness, what 's next...

Is she out of your head now ? Gone like the wind ? Turn around and it never happened ?

I think that is most important, to realize the effect it had on you and why it happened, why did you took the bate ?

What did she gave you that you obviously needed... everything you write is about her, what about you ?  x

Is she out of your head now ? Gone like the wind ? Turn around and it never happened ?

I think that is most important, to realize the effect it had on you and why it happened, why did you took the bate ?

What did she gave you that you obviously needed... everything you write is about her, what about you ? 

The Monster probably won't be out of my head for a while. I know this. I think for me, I must try to do all I can to remove the shame & embarassment of what I've endured. Why I took the bait? Probably the same reason why all get into relationships. The need to be with someone, to love, care for, enjoy being around, etc... ., and visa versa. But to know the whole bleepin;' thng was a scam, and to have preyed upon by a predator, yeah, that bothers the hell out of me.

As we all know, these r/s's are not like any other. And hopefully, we only get to experience this once in our lifetimes. Keep in mind that with all the bovine scatology I've been dealing with, I am still doing the things that I know I need to do to keep moving forward, and will benefit me down the road.

I also realize, that I am lucky compared to some who have gone through a helluva lot more than I ever will. Don't think for one minute that not a day goes by that I don't consider myself lucky to be alive, and grateful for all of the support I've received. It has been overwhelming, and unbelievable, to say the least. I know I have alot of ppl counting on me for various things, and I need to remind myself that "THIS", cannot disrupt any of that. So, I will take a page from the Monster's playbook, and make sure that, even if I feel down or angry, I will plaster a fake smile on my face, and not let anyone know that I am hurting.

Hell, if ppl like the Monster can do it, why can't I?

Because Shes sick and youre not and you dont want to be where She is