BPDFamily.com

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFM0dUpL66c&feature=related

Thank-u for sharing!

awesome link! thank you

Full video... .

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgGyvxqYSbE&feature=related

An interesting link, but I don't think BPD's are psychopaths.

They share some traits though... .

Many mental illnesses share traits, I think it's important not to group them all together tho.  Some BPD's may also be psychopaths, but psychopathy is not the same as BPD, so I just worry about people mislabeling people.  We have all been hurt by someone with BPD, but I don't want to vilify them with the word psychopath.

Great videos, thanks!

Great vids... watched all 3 and YES BPD's ARE PSYCHOPATHS.  They are usually the "victims" but they are psychopaths.  Psychopaths live by the reality THEY perceive and create.  BPD's do the exact same thing with their feelings.  Both would do ANYTHING to destroy a perceived threat and they are very resistant to facts that counter their delusions, usually not able to absorb the new information at all unless they are confronted by multiple people.  Both, in my exp, have the same fear: EXPOSURE.  BPD's are PSYCHOPATHS.

If you've ever had a chance to feel the true power and rashness of their actions AFTER they've blackened you lostinspace... .how counter it could be to their personality... .their moral system and everything they'd valued with love and friendship... .and how they're still willing to do whatever is possible, even punitively to you after they've gone so far to label you a threat... .you'd see how "similar trait-ed" these two really are.

They will do whatever they need to protect themselves, that isn't psychopathic.  They have awareness that what they are doing is wrong, psychopaths don't.  They split to avoid taking responsibility of their actions, but in order to have to do that, they have to know their behaviour is wrong.  They are not absolved of the awful things they do and BPD is not a legal criminal defense.  If you choose to paint them with the broad brush of psychopathy, it suddenly becomes you painting them black.

I have been the target of a lot of really awful behaviour and endured a lot of pain.  I look am learning to look at my ex with indifference.  I have been angry, sad, frustrated, hurt and dispaired, but I won't paint her as something she isn't.  The symptoms may look the same, but the disorder is not.

So you would knowingly do EVERYTHING you thought was wrong?  As a human, that doesn't make any sense.  I'm not painting anyone black... .I am weighting what they as humans are capable of WITHOUT looking back... .even if they're only doing it inside themselves.  I don't care what or if they feel anything inside... .they perform these actions w/o a care in the world based off of a delusion.  That's a PSYCHOPATH.  So maybe they get a moment of clarity and reach back for you or try to attone... .where was it then... .and how long will that take.  Painting people black and trying to destroy everything about them to protect yourself and the means to which you would do this... .over a FEELING!... .is psychotic.

The only thing my ex was afraid of in the end... .was what all psychopaths are... .EXPOSURE.  Again... .both know it is wrong but put up walls... .facades... .delusions to justify demented thoughts and behaviors.  I know we can't see the people we've loved in this way... but look at how quick and hard they change... .when you're not longer the most important thing in their lives... .even if that was a delusion too.  Again, not painting anything black/white... .just telling you their capability.

I'm not going to argue with you.  Your BPD may well have been a psychopath.  However, they are very different things.  We have all been hurt by someone, but that doesn't make them a psychopath.  It's wrong to assign a word that has such strong implications to someone, no matter how much they hurt you.

Not really... .if it fits a percentage... .and from the stories I've read here.  I mean, srsly, I thought NONE could get worst than mine... .and I was FLOORED!  There is NO way you can't say that the majority of BPD's are psychopaths.  And I'm not being mean... .I am weighing the actions... .not the power of that word.  If it walks like a duck and quacks... .they're quacked.

The term psychopathy was purposefully separated from personality disorders for the very reason that the stigma attached to the word was not a fair assessment of the patients states.  You can use it if you want and people can jump on the bandwagon with you, but I think it is wrong to do so.  I won't be that person.

Okay... .how would you deem the actions of BPD's you've seen here?  Seemingly "in the moment", no remorse, and in many cases, CRIMINAL?  You put a label on it then.  Yeah, let's be PC about it.  I won't be labeled a black/whiter... cause I've had to relay as well as accept much grey in the black/white both in the r/s and on these boards.  I always think in grey... .but if I'm going to sugar-coat this for them, just b/c I know a "couple" of BPDers that are "trying"... .then I enable all the other ones to which this label should stick.  Maybe if there were braver people that would apply this stigma... .the actions would be checked A PRIORI!  and we'd have a more balanced world and wouldn't worry about bumping into each other... or an argument to lead to an affair then a coverup being a warrant issued for your arrest for in some cases here, A FALSE RAPE ACCUSATION!

 The only thing my ex was afraid of in the end... .was what all psychopaths are... .EXPOSURE.


I agree with this. This is my experience anyway

Even as Marcie said all that needed to be said... .and I'm sure there's many more to attest... .I just say that I do feel for them... I really do.  They are in pain and they act out.  We as people try to not damn them, we try to work around them, and we try to be polite in both our judgments and diagnosis.  But as we move over so much for them, what do they do for us?  We watch out so much for their future and their well being... who watches out for us.  Everyone has their own weight to carry, and even if we're all not fully capable to carry it... .what is is really like to carry someone else's and get spit in the face for it... .be shamed for it, while they're still enacting a delusional war against you.  Maybe if they recognized more of the weight they place upon people, it would slow down more, and/or the normal people in general would tax more of a punishment socially/punitively for their actions, instead of simply telling them they'll be okay and their victims are right but overwrought, when they haven't walked a inch in their shoes.

well, mine has all of the psychotic tendencies mentioned.  there must be a spectrum... .like everything else.  Exposure is huge... .also.

I haven't shared a fraction of the awful stuff my ex did to me.  I still won't brand her a psychopath.  Many people who suffer from BPD also suffer from many other mental illnesses or issues.  Not all BPD's exhibit violent or criminal behavior and I'm sure many also fit the dx criteria for psychopathy.  They do awful things, and they are responsible for their actions.  I make no excuses for them.

As for who looks out for you?  You do.  I chose to be with this person, and even though I didn't understand BPD, I knew she wasn't right.  I gave her all I had to give and more, and you are correct, I got dumped on the curbside for it like a sack of garbage.  I put up with lies, cheating, emotional abuse, threats, and false accusations and went back for 3 rounds.  I didn't look after me, and I take responsibility for that.  She will never take responsibility for anything unless she is looking for absolution.  She will not get that from me.  I am sure there will be another attempt at contact from her and when it comes all she will get is a simple message from me.  "I don't hate you, I don't feel anything for you".  That is all I have to say to her.  And despite all the pain, all the sleepless nights, all the anger and frustration, all the self doubt and self blame, all the awful things she has said to me, I still don't believe she is a psychopath.

Okay in the who is responsible for looking out for the rest of us:  Me-1  Them-Everyone they can manipulate to fire upon ME!  I call that alone all I need to see to label them all PSYCHOPATHS.  If they'd know they did wrong, they wouldn't have to turn the whole world they can manipulate against me and us to absolve themselves... .even if it's for 30 seconds.  They need to be labelled appropriately so as children they hear the taunts of other psychopaths... and hear their actions w/out all the sugar coating... .w/o all of the understanding.  We all understand them... .it doesn't change the label.  I still think your ex is a psychopath.  Painting someone black out of a delusion and then acting out in ways that are destructive to you both is psychopathic.  I don't want to just have people committed... but there is a spectrum... .but it's still in the same label. 

We will have to disagree then.

And lostinspace.  I really have enjoyed your posts.  :)on't think ANY of this is against you, just the tactic used to confront mentally ill/deficient people.  It's horrible that we live with them and see the signs and are self-reflective and be responsible for our own well being, feelings, and actions; yet can get no help until they have proven to be willing and able to destroy EVERYTHING first.  Even then, it looks simply like sour grapes for us and some of these people put on such a good show... .wear such a good facade that we are truly without anything at the end, including our pride.  We've both had horrible experiences, but have learned different things from it.  I respect your candor, and love a good debate.  Please note that I bear no ill or ever did towards you.  Thank you all!

Ha!  Certainly no ill will on my part.  Everyone on these boards has a valid opinion.   We've all spent far too much time holding our opinions in.  I could never express anything negative to my ex, because I knew where it would lead.  The fear of losing someone over an opinion is something I hope to never experience again.  I'm sure we all understand the feeling of walking on eggshells, and god forbid anyone ever does it here.  This is our safe place, where hopefully we can all learn to express ourselves freely and without fear.  We are all bonded by shared experience and that is a bond that has done great things for me over the few weeks I've been here.  Your view and opinions are appreciated and a healthy debate is just that, healthy!  Take care my friend =)

So, just curious, how would you define a psychopath?  What would you have to see that would tip the scale for you?  I get the spectrum... .haven't looked it up in DSMIV lately... .so Functioning Psychopaths?  does that exist... .like a functioning alcoholic... .which i don't think exists... .just depends on your definition of functioning?   Spectrum is all i can say... .spectrum... .and we get at that by behaviors.   Most think psychopaths have outlandish behavior and are extremely damaging to most, a history of it... .big violence... .

anyways... .you are all probably done with this discussion but just wanted to know what would tip the scale for the non who just wont use the word, even in cyberspace with regards to BPD:))  much love and i know all too well that we could all get in trouble, sued, for using any clinical word to describe another person unless we hold a license to do so.

with much respect,   Flash

I'm no expert, but I don't think psychopaths have any cognition of right from wrong.  They can't distinguish between moral and immoral behavior.  I think BPD's know right from wrong, but their need to self protect overrides their moral barometer.  The psychopath doesn't self examine, the BPD does.

An example of this would be suicidal moments.  When a BPD is suicidal it is because they loath themselves, when a psychopath is suicidal, it is because they see no winning scenario (ie. Hitler in the bunker with the war lost).

agreed... .agreed.   that would be a huge difference... .huge in my mind.  knowing right from wrong adds to their outlandish behavior... .what a weird, weird, thing.  ... .seriously... .i;d love for someone to do a study on the organic make up of BPD's, the brain function,  both functional... .whatever that really means, and the more suicidal... .types.

thanks again... .and that really is key. 

i'm with loastinspace on this one.  BPD is not psychopathy. psychopaths hurt people without remorse.  BPD often engage in self destructive behavior to cover up the remorse.  My ex cut into her own flesh because of the guilt she felt. once she did, it was gone (for the moment) because that pain was over-riding the guilt. 

If they didn't know what they did was wrong, the suicide rate wouldn't be so high. 

Our exes were hit_s. no doubt. self absorbed, myopic children even.  however... .they still know right from wrong.  primal instincts override that conscience.

As a tongue in cheek aside, I like to think of my ex's mom as a demon (the woman really was a psychopath - i mean, we're talking dozens of men on the side and she is still nostalgic about it to this day with no remorse) and her dad as a decent guy (he makes puns. he can do no wrong).  so she ended up as half demon.  She got her dad's conscience and her mom's hell. And it tears her apart.

I think someone mentioned in a different thread:

sociopath = no conscience + free will

BPD = no free will + conscience

Just another point on topic.  The disorder was original called 'borderline psychopath', before it was changed.  When the illness was first being described, the psychologists working with it recognized the psychotic behaviors, but understood it wasn't true psychosis... .thus the word borderline.

Thank You loastinspace,

You don't know what a relief it is to know that at least one person out there hasn't been "seeing" my wife.

LaoWho

A recent study has highlighted a strong link between BPD & psychopathy in women in particular...

An Examination of Borderline Personality Disorder and Secondary Psychopathy Across Genders by Dr. Edelyn Verona.

Going to watch it again... . 

I believe there's a big difference between "psychopaths" and those with BPD.  THeir behavior may manifest the same way (manipulation, control, rage, cold, distant, etc.) but their reasons for doing so and their reactions and emotions are very different. 

When I see the word "psychopath" I think of 'antisocial personality disorder' which is different in the DSM IV from borderline personality disorder.

When thinking of BPDS and antisocials, I think of a spectrum of emotions.   

antisocials< _____hitnons______nons__________nonPLEASE READ (https://bpdfamily.com/safe-site.htm)_________ >BPDs

Most of us in the "normal" range (whatever that is) with emotions towards another fall in the middle--- we usually have empathy towards another, hurt if we see someone else hurt, want to help another if they are in need, react to a slight by a friend or family member as "having an off day", etc.  Antisocials/ psychopaths have no feelings whatsoever about these things and or people.  They are devoid of most if any feeling or interelatedness towards another person unless it's a means to an end for their own satisfaction, success, or to appease boredom.   

BPDs on the other hand, I believe, feel emotions so intensly it can be off the charts. They take things so personally and work hard to protect themselves against perceived threats and of feeling that "off the chart" sensation of emotions.  This behavior can manifest in ways similar to the psychopath in coldness, manipulation, rage, double crossing another, stuffing their feelings down inside, etc.   The behavior may appear similar but the motivation (and emotions) behind the behavior is vastly different.

A good book I just read (and would recommend) for those who want to read more about "psychopaths" is 'The Sociopath Next Door'  by Martha Stout. 

It has been said on many threads throughout here that psychopaths/ antisocials are often mistaken for BPDs. 

Thank you for the link!

Finally SOLD... .THANK YOU!  And loast for starting the topic... .I love charts!

FYI-  Men are significantly misdiagnosed when it comes to BPD... .the stigma is attached to women.

After i broke up with my uBPD xbf he confessed to molesting his little brother when he was 15 and his little brother was 5. he said he knew it was wrong but he did it anyway. Does that make him a phsycopath?

I agree with alig2's concept of a pwBPD being on the the opposite end of the spectrum from a psychopath when it comes to feeling feelings. 

But what about empathy?  Do you all think that a pwBPD is capable of true empathy?  In my case, my BPDexbf struggled with feeling empathy as a natural emotion.  I think he was born with a potential to be a "whole" individual with depth and warmth and this is the persona he generally puts out there unless he is in an intimate r/s which leaves him feeling "exposed".  B/c he suffered hideous, severe physical  abuse at the hands of a true "melevolent" psychopath, my ex learned to dissociate from his feelings, including empathy.  One of his most vivid memories is when he was 5 and his father shot his two precious little cats in front of him for "getting into the shed and getting the deer meat".

Well anyway, gotta run.  But curious about other's opinions.

R

For those interested in research findings on the subject:

Psychopathy in women

www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/05/02/sssp-meeting-highlights-psychopathy-in-women/

SSSP meeting highlights: Psychopathy in women

The Society for the Scientific Study of Psychopathy met in New Orleans, LA April 16-18, 2009. There were several hot topics discussed at the meeting including how psychopathy might be different in men and women. The general consensus seemed to be that psychopathy is under-diagnosed in women because in women the symptoms are different.

Dr. Edelyn Verona is a, leader in the Society. Her group presented, “An Examination of Borderline Personality Disorder and Secondary Psychopathy Across Genders.” To understand these research findings look at the list of traits below:

Factor 1 Traits (Primary Psychopathy)

• Glib and superficial

• Egocentric and grandiose

• Lack of remorse or guilt

• Lack of empathy

• Deceitful and manipulative

• Shallow emotions

Factor 2 Traits (Secondary Psychopathy)

• Impulsive

• Poor behavior controls

• Need for excitement

• Lack of responsibility

• Early behavior problems

• Adult antisocial behavior

Dr. Verona’s group looked at the relationship between borderline personality (BPD) traits Factor 1 and Factor 2 in women. They stated, “We hypothesized that gender would moderate the relationship between secondary psychopathic characteristics and features, such that Factor 2 would correlate more strongly with BPD in women than in men. We further expected that primary psychopathic characteristics would be negatively related to BPD.”

The first part of their hypothesis turned out to be supported, that is Factor 2 was associated with BPD in both men and women but more so women.

More important though, is that the second part of their hypothesis was not supported. Primary psychopathic features were positively related to BPD and “F2 was significantly more predictive of BPD in high F1 women relative to low F1 women.”

The authors concluded, “In particular, the combination of F1 and F2 seems predictive of BPD in women, but not men. This suggests that psychopathy (which is typically defined as being high on both F1 and F2) is manifested as BPD in women.”

Their conclusions are supported by other studies showing a positive correlation between psychopathy and BPD scores.

I spoke with Dr. Verona about their findings, commenting that many psychiatrists consider BPD to be a mood or anxiety disorder. She answered that the criteria for BPD are not precise enough. A woman with PTSD and/or mood symptoms can be diagnosed with BPD if she is also impulsive. It does not seem fitting to group these women together with psychopathic women, especially since the treatment may be different for those who have mood/anxiety disorders.

What does this all mean for you who have family members or co-workers with BPD? My advice is consider the degree of harm done by the person in the context of Factor 1 and Factor 2 traits. The more a woman or man has BOTH sets of traits, the more dangerous she/he is likely to be.

I'm starting to believe this

My ex definitely showed extreme psychopathy, especially after I was devalued and abandoned. Cold, heartless, inhuman behavior.

great videos

Verona was writing about incarcerated females, already in jail for violent behaviors- hence the secondary psychopathy. Most of the posters on the forum are not dating or married to incarcerated females, already in jail for violent behaviors. They are, however, prone to splitting their partner from good into bad to offset self directed anger. Everybody does this when they get past denial. I know I did. (denial, anger, bargaining, acceptance) So it's one of the first stages to go through when recovering from the aftermath of a Borderline relationship. It's quite common to think of this person as evil and heartless.  Once you understand the disorder, and go through the bargaining of getting them therapy and failing - you'll emerge with an acceptance- that the disorder is here to stay and there's nothing that you can do about it. It's out of your hands.  When you stop personalizing it, it *just *is* but it's not on a par with serial killers who enjoy killing.  It's BPD, the failure to separate/individuate as a human being; the failure to emerge as a stand alone "self" without attaching to others.

People with BPD can certainly manipulate us and become vulnerable seducers, but it's for attachment. Borderlines feel like they are dying without another person to attach to. It is as real to them as a near death experience. These fearful feelings about dying alone (from early childhood) were never given a chance to regulate. Nor were they taught to self-soothe- so naturally, they look to others to help process their discomfort as adults. Unfortunately, they choose partners that trigger the same responses (shame, disbelief, blame, etc.) to their fears of engulfment and abandonment as their earliest attachments. You have to be a fairly important person in the Borderline's life to get in so deep.

Borderlines choose people *to represent* the initial parenting style of their earliest attachments- whether good or bad, this person is *perceived* to be discounting and shaming- which activates the persecution response.  This fear of engulfment IS required of the disorder and the Borderline impulsively flees. (The BPD partner never learns to self soothe and cannot stay with a partner who triggers the anxiety.) The BPD feelings of engulfment are a self-fulfilling prophecy to the desire to attach. The pendulum swings back and forth, but never at rest- happy and secure. There's always fear. Unless the Borderline learns to resolve their compulsive memories and stops projecting them onto the next partner in order to continue the imprint of bondage and mistrust, the disorder will play over and over, back and forth, again and again.

Are Borderlines psychopaths? No. They do not take glee from harming people. Psychopaths do.  Most Borderlines are in pain.

"Unfortunately, they choose partners that trigger the same responses (shame, disbelief, blame, etc.) to their fears of engulfment and abandonment as their earliest attachments."

What does this mean?  Does this somehow mean we are bad or negative to a person with BPD?  Many of us were kind to our exBPD partners?  How do we trigger responses of shame, disbelief and blame?  Are we at fault?

I'm not thinking I am at fault but I would like to know more.

My exuBPD boyfriend molested his little brother when he was 15 and the little brother was 5 years old. Does that make him more like a physcopath?

hi all,

what about a hint on the subject in thread... .

who is who in this one, by our awsome mr bob... .

www.youtu.be/7TbmP2vXeQs

wl

mm,

you're not at fault. but you may have contributed in ways you couldn't see or have no idea about. in retrospect, i certainly did.

for example, every time my ex was lonely and needy, and i was exhausted and perhaps a bit indifferent, after 3 years.

these people have perceptions that are very different than ours. you could have been a saint, and your ex may have PERCEIVED any one of the actions you took completely differently.

toward the end, i was ignoring my exes daily pleas for me to come over, because i just flat out couldn't. but she was interpreting this as the same behavior her dad had given her. i was abandoning her. she wasn't getting what she needed. i contributed without even knowing it.

were you not ever accused or attacked for something that completely blew your mind, something you weren't at all guilty of, something that didn't even happen? that's what was going on. they interpret. and perceive. and they think in distorted ways. again, no you're not at fault, but without having the foggiest idea, yes, we can trigger responses of shame, disbelief, and blame, among other things. and they will be SO CERTAIN of these things as to see them as indisputable fact.

marcie,

haven't you ever done anything you knew was wrong? especially at the age of 15? everyone has. that alone doesn't make a psychopath, no. it certainly makes him a very troubled individual.

hi all,

this is the ultimate professor on psychopaty, read mr. hare and educate... .




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Construct Validity of Psychopathy in a Community Sample

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Martha Stout's Website

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Dr. Robert Hare Profile and Work  

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The Partial Psychopath  

Psychopath's Find Faces a Mystery  

Psychopathy and Antisocial Personality Disorder: A Case of Diagnostic Confusion

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Ten Minute Test for Psychopathy  

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The Psychopathic Tendency in World Politics

Psychological and Biological theories of criminal conduct.

The Origins of Violence:

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Seeing Evil  

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Beyond Therapy: Some Evil Can't Be Cured  

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“A favored technique is to debilitate your identity [personally, I hate the term self-esteem] by levelling false accusations and/or questioning your honesty, fidelity, trustworthiness, your “true” motivations, your “real” character, your sanity and judgement.”

 

“They are absolutely the world’s best manipulators, liars, and fabricators of truth. They do so convincingly because they believe their own lies. After all their life is nothing but a lie, a sham, how can we possibly assume they know anything different.”

 

“Others around me would get so tired of the whole thing and insinuate that I was perpetuating things. All I wanted was for him to leave me alone. Part of the hurt and damage was done because others could but would not see what was actually happening. He would always try to ingratiate himself to others it was sickening. Usually psychopaths put on the nicest act, and you look like the harpy and btch, and so everyone takes their side, it is a horror story, a psychopath can be very charming, and manipulative and manipulate the smartest of people.”

 

“My biggest frustration and source of anger, is at those who have refused to take a stand when they see the abuse . No matter how outrageous his behavior others often stood by and inadvertently fuelled his grandiosity and denial... .although denial is too mild a word for it.  

 

 

“I have finally come to the conclusion that they cannot change, so all we can do is to refuse to participate in their sick drama and leave the stage.”

 

 

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THE PSYCHOPATH - The Mask of Sanity

Special Research Project of the Quantum Future School


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Imagine - if you can - not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken.

And pretend that the concept of responsibility is unknown to you, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools.

Now add to this strange fantasy the ability to conceal from other people that your psychological makeup is radically different from theirs. Since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that you are conscience-free is nearly effortless.

You are not held back from any of your desires by guilt or shame, and you are never confronted by others for your cold-bloodedness. The ice water in your veins is so bizarre, so completely outside of their personal experience, that they seldom even guess at your condition.

In other words, you are completely free of internal restraints, and your unhampered liberty to do just as you please, with no pangs of conscience, is conveniently invisible to the world.

You can do anything at all, and still your strange advantage over the majority of people, who are kept in line by their consciences will most likely remain undiscovered.

How will you live your life?

it is on cassiopedia.com you find all sbout them. bless

wl

There are variations of mental health disorders and emotional disturbance  but there are unique markers of psychopaths.

I was married to a psychopath and sometimes he would discuss with me his experience. He knew he did not experience feelings, he would comment to me occasionally how much he wished he could. He is not afraid of death, is extremely calm in life threatening situations (has rescued people at sea in storms) and never shows emotion in private. His expression is flat or outraged, but never spontaneous. In public he knows  how to act and fit in.

He was very abusive and I was terrified of him.

In public, he is a public figure and a respected man. He lives a shadow life of deceit, financial irresponsibility, and sexual stimulation with numerous partners. He enjoys winning, at any and all costs, and sometimes will wait for years to harm his perceived enemies, usually through the political arena.

Sometimes when he would attack me, he would "blame" me for him having to hurt me, he especially despised me if I showed any emotion, or cried when he abused me. What usually outraged him was the times I would confront him on his behavior, when he could no longer manipulate me. I did not know he was diagnosed prior to our divorce, he had confirmation.

Once you have been subjected to this kind of evil, you never get over it, ever. And you don't mince words, you know what you are up against. It took ten years of planning in order to leave him and seven years to unlock the psychological damage of his abuse.

His T diagnosed him as "failure to bond or attach". I found the papers of his diagnosis locked away in a safe he kept in his office. I did not have the combination of the safe, not for many years.

They are chilling. Chilling in the cunning, shrewdness, ability to inflict harm on others unless they have been socialized in childhood to not harm, and to turn on anyone they view as disposable, and if you met him in public, you would remark to yourself "wow, what a great guy".

hi c,

so right, if you had a psychopat near, screwing up your beliefs, and every other sees them as "mr/mrs

nice" not knowing whats behind the mask of insanity, but have you noticed they can´t hold it up for

long as the act is so excusting to them. moreover I was the one who finally got her dx, not to, as they fear most, , to be exposed, but to have her get into dbt-therapy and have an opportunity to heal from all the

bad events in early childhood. but she agreed more to get tested to prowe my disbeliefe about her having a disorder, and once it was documented and ask to take part of the paper, thats where our decade long "relation" started to go south... .as I placed one single boundry, get help and I stand by you all along, but with no self-insight about the disorder and acceptance I had to go, so sad, isn´t it  told her I

prove it to you so if you changed for the best of yourselt, we can have a lunch in a year or three... .

all the best to you

wl

Yes. And compare that with BPD where Borderlines often present themselves as the ultimate victims.


It means that the disorder is there in spite of what did or did not do. It's a personality disorder. It's going to need your acceptance to have you get beyond the bargaining stage that you can overcome it with molding yourself to the behavior of the disorder. When detaching, the bargaining stage is often a review time of what you feel you could have done differently with your own behavioral responses to the disorder- with the mistaken belief that is controllable. (The reality is that it's not.)

Borderline is all about attachment and the false perceptions of control.  The disorder is a belief system that involves persecution for the failure to be a "self." That belief system was in place long before you came onto the scene and it will also remain in place after you say your goodbyes. The fault does not lie in your hands- it is a disorder.

Try to be aware as you detach, that returning to a Borderline after the split will begin the process of their persecutorial thought all over again. The Borderline's longing for love, attachment, feelings of persecution, fear of engulfment/fear of abandonment and subsequent scapegoating of the partner for all the failures *are* the disorder.  If you continue to return for round 5, 6, 7, 8, etc.- you are only facilitating the disorder.

Borderline is the "cant live with you/can't live without you" push and pull- heartbreaking to the partner who senses hope and tries to determine the outcome of the disorder. You can't.  It's a belief system that is borderline to delusional, as the thought process (the belief) makes a Borderline eternally submissive to the perception of a demanding jail warden. Borderline is bondage. Anything you do will be perceived as controlling- even asking them innocently if they would like to brush their teeth in the bathroom before you brush your own. Sad, but true- but it's a disorder. Even Mother Teresa would be split into good/bad. Even the nicest person is split black.  :light:

Psychopaths are made in the womb. Brain science has shown through the use of scans that the psychopathic brains differ from brains of people that experience conscience and attachment.

www.google.com/search?q=psychopathic brain scans


This does not mean that all people born with these tendencies harm others-rather they have the ability to act without conscience and could cause harm with no remorse, unless they are socialized and nurtured. The nurturing behaviors exhibited by psychopaths are learned-not experienced on an emotional level of bonding and attachment-as a tool of behavior that is acceptable in the community, culture or their family.

Over the years my exh would "show" his remorseless side -not only in his cruelty toward me, but his total absence of emotion or remorse. Our son was in the Intensive Care Unit, we almost lost him. All I could do as he lay there was place my hand to his face and I wept profusely and talked to him to please wake up and stay with us.

His father (myexh) stared at me flatly and without any tone to his voice said "I really wish I could feel what you feel, what does it feel like, to love someone"? Although our son was still in the woods, still in a coma, my exh left after a few hours. His reason? Because he wanted to attend a meeting and he believed the meeting was too important to miss... .not once, did he hold his hand, talk to him, or tell him that he loved him.

His face was calm and void of any emotion-other than a slight annoyance at my son for disrupting his schedule.

I called him when our son woke up. His response, a calm tone as he said "Thank you for calling me with your news". And he hung up.

Although he has never apologized for his cruelty to me, he did once remark, "I know the difference between right and wrong, I know what I did was wrong, during the times I hurt you, it felt not good but like I could do anything and no one would believe you, I don't know how to explain it" and then he said "it was your fault you know, you could have stopped me".

I used to become enraged at him, now I know it is wasted energy. It is as if I am watching a robot in human form.

Psychopathy is different from BPD and it is different from narcissism. 

I don't think we know enough to really be convinced that BPD isn't curable, or an emotional disturbance. I believe there is recovery and a path to emotional health.

I doubt there is such hope for psychopaths, unless science and technology can repair the structure and pathways of the brain.