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Relationship Partner with BPD (Straight and LGBT+) => Romantic Relationship | Detaching and Learning after a Failed Relationship => Topic started by: Matthew_Taylor801 on May 25, 2011, 10:52:27 PM



Title: is she completely over me?
Post by: Matthew_Taylor801 on May 25, 2011, 10:52:27 PM
do i enter her thoughts at all anymore?  i have been NC for 2 months and she is one of the BPD types that will depart and never come back.  could she very well be with someone new already despite the fact that she kept reiterating over and over again how she needs to be alone for a while?


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: David Dare on May 25, 2011, 11:14:57 PM
Friend, you are asking a question that only she can answer.  IMO, you are still dependent on her in some way, psychologically/emotionally.

Ignore the things she's said.  They are meaningless.  It's what helped hook you in the first place.  pwBPd tend to be overdramatic about how they express themselves.  I fell for it with my ex and it blinded me.  She said she loved me, but really, it doesn't matter.  Your ex saying she needs to be alone might well be her way of softening the blow to you.  Better to say, "I need to be alone" than to say "We just aren't compatible" or worse.

Instead, focus on where you are today, and where you want to be tomorrow.  Try to imagine a life without her, period.  There is no in between here.  It's all in or all out.  Stop compartmentalizing what type of pwBPD she is.  She is a person who made a decision to end the relationship.  That's all that matters.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: tornadochaser on May 25, 2011, 11:28:32 PM
do i enter her thoughts at all anymore?  i have been NC for 2 months and she is one of the BPD types that will depart and never come back.  could she very well be with someone new already despite the fact that she kept reiterating over and over again how she needs to be alone for a while?

Cut and burn the air hose brother.  It's the only way.

To answer your question in a direct fashion: it is likely she has object constancy issues and does not think of you.   You are blessed in this regard, now is the time to make your escape.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: sb.kim87 on May 25, 2011, 11:53:39 PM
do i enter her thoughts at all anymore?  i have been NC for 2 months and she is one of the BPD types that will depart and never come back.  could she very well be with someone new already despite the fact that she kept reiterating over and over again how she needs to be alone for a while?

Well I think it depends per person. Since there're many combinations of BPD. A ex of mine which I dated 3 years ago still, I repeat STILL tries to contact me ? Dont know how my current ex is going to react but yeah, I think it really all depends


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: DragonHeart on May 26, 2011, 03:28:34 AM
Sadly, Matthew, what a BPD says and what a BPD does are two different things. Mine kept telling me she was going to therapy, and going to get better, and that she wasn't going to go with anyone else. 2 weeks later it's all over her facebook page -- her and her new shiny object. I can't tell you if yours will react in the same way mine did, and most of the others ex's on here, but I think it would be in your best interest right now to continue with the solid effort to detach from this girl. I think you've been doing very well so far, and it would be great to know that you have eventually healed from all of this.

Stay strong, man.

DH


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: kennumber777 on May 26, 2011, 05:19:29 PM
It's hard to say. Mine loved me almost too much. She stayed with me for 9 years. She left for another guy(victim) but, every 4 months she calls crying saying "it's not working".

As for your situation, I bet she still thinks of you but, not the way YOU (or anyone who isn't BPD) would. For them, everyday is spent in survival mode. It's sad for them really. You will discover what kind of patern she chooses when it comes to you... .she may call back or she may not.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: Vagabond on May 26, 2011, 05:35:09 PM
Matt

I doubt it mate, if she as strong NPD traits then she is gone buddy, mine was the same, hurt like hell at the start, but after a while you will see its for the best. Just read what some of our dear posters put on here when there ex's contact them, i feel for these guys coz it must be a complete head doer, they have to remain way stronger than the likes of us.

You know what, i used to be jealous in some small way of the people who did get contacted by there ex's again, to have there ex's show an interest and chase them for once i used to think must be so powering and give you some esteem back, but not anymore, i am so glad now i dont have to go through that and listen to some disordered person try and suck me back in just to stomp all over me again.

So Matt just be thankful she as done one and wish the folks on here who dont have our luck well ok buddy


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: Worndowndad on May 26, 2011, 05:45:49 PM
For BPD it is "out of sight out of mind". She may or may not come back.  It maybe months or even years if she does. You should hope ahe doesn't. Their words don't match their actions. Mine used to tell me she loved me while she is in bed with her boyfriend.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: Hyacinth on May 26, 2011, 06:24:18 PM
I wish mine would leave me alone.  I told him in December 2010 it was over and had to repeat myself for months, all the while he was contacting me.  He filed false charges against me and had me arrested  and put in jail (dropped them alll, of course), then had the ba... .s to send me a 15 page letter at work, telling me he loves me, wants marriage counseling, etc.  After months of peace, it was awful.  I was doing SO GOOD, not hearing from him and I was healing, until the letter came.  it made me sad and I cried for days.  So trust me, having them NOT contact you is for the best.  Did him contacting me make me feel anything?  NO because I know I can't live with a crazy man and be abused.  Each day of NC makes me one step further away from him.  Trust me, no contact from an xBPD is WONDERFUL and you shoudl consider yourself lucky. 


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: David Dare on May 26, 2011, 09:45:49 PM
I'd like to take a second and follow up on my somewhat blunt response.

The truth of my situation is that I've been out of it long enough to fully detach.  A year ago I was wondering the same things, Matt, as you.  I eventually had my moment of reconnection, and it confirmed everything I'd learned about pwBPD.  She wasn't who I thought she was.  In fact, she seemed like a stranger to me, and it was a bit awkward.  It nailed home that we weren't compatible to begin with and I'm better off without her.  The fact she is (potentially) BPD no longer mattered.  She is who she is, and, more importantly, I am who I am.

She obviously thought of me enough to make the effort to contact me, but it wasn't what I expected.  Not once did she ask how I was doing.  She did apologize for the way she treated me, but it was hollow, offered in writing a year after the fact instead of face to face when it mattered. 

Like we read over and over it's all about them.  My ex contacted me for some reason, I don't know what, but it wasn't about me.  At least it wasn't communicated that way.  It was like standing at the edge of the rabbit hole, looking down in it, knowing I was once there, remembering the utter confusion that took place during our relationship, and walking away from it once and for all.



Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: GP44 on May 26, 2011, 11:42:39 PM
The best advice I got in regards to my Cluster B ex is that if I'm lucky, I will never see or hear from her again. If I'm cursed, she will pop up again looking to recycle. As much as I love her and in a perfect world wish we could be together, I know that that is my heart and not my head speaking. It is a good thing that she has maintained the silent treatment and not given me the opportunity to make a very bad choice.



Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: once removed on May 27, 2011, 12:05:10 AM
i think i mostly agree with the sentiment that "no one knows, and it doesn't matter, and hope like hell she doesn't." it's probably equally likely that she either thinks of you, or that she doesn't think of you. it's very true that no one can answer that but her, and it does totally depend. on one hand, you don't necessarily have to torture yourself over the idea that you're just completely forgotten and discarded if its not true. it might be true. but no one knows, and you're probably not going to know, so in that sense, it doesn't matter. you will get to the point david dare makes, that you will come to a place that you don't care, and/or don't WANT to be on her mind. i can tell you a borderline could not tell a greater lie than "i just want to be alone." they spend their lives trying to avoid doing so.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: Howzah on May 27, 2011, 12:30:18 AM
They were never into you to begin with

They are seriously mentally ill. Stop trying to make sense of her behavior. You can't. Stop trying to rationalize it. That's why it's called "mental illness" and a "Personality Disorder". For a borderline to admit they have BPD is to admit their perceptions of reality have been crazy their entire lives and that they are insane. It's life changing for a BPD to get better. It takes real commitment and you have to constantly be fighting your very perception of reality. Think about that and understand the magnitude of such a thing. It's daunting and is terrifying for someone with BPD. It's alright to take pity on their condition and empathize, but you need to accept it, pity it for a moment, then move on with your life. Forever. There's no going back. She's already violated every possible boundary a healthy person would even begin to accept with you. It's admirable that you still care for her, but take it from someone who knows. They are wasted tears and wasted emotions. Your BPD is not thinking about you at all. She never does. She has new supply now that is meeting her emotional needs at the moment. There is no guilt. No "sigh, I miss him" crap you see in the movies. They are out laughing and having a great time in the arms of another man. Believe it and accept it or you will drive yourself off the cliff emotionally and go crazy yourself. That cloudy thinking leaves you stuck in Oz and vulnerable to that sucking sound of a very good vacuum cleaner.

A lot of people cling on to a desperate hope that "there's a chance", because there have been VERY FEW success stories. BPD is never cured though. It's a life long condition, yes even with DBT. Borderlines can only learn to recognize suppress and control their behavioral urges. Not stop them. There is biological evidence to prove this and there is very intriguing data about how the amydala can be a key factor in the illness, on how there is differences between normal people and borderlines in this regard.

You have to stay NC to protect you from yourself. I know what would happen if she contacted you right now. You'd be on your guard, but you'd talk to her, feel the intoxication of her attention because it's feeding your addiction to her. She would seem normal, maybe even tell you "You're really the one. She needs you. Only you understand her... blah blah blah"... .but you have to understand, when you're dealing with a borderline, it's never about you. Ever. "It's always about them."

Once that simple statement, "It's always about them" truly resonates within you and you accept it, you will never be over this relationship. It's taken me years to start to feel normal again after my relationship. I'm only telling you this because I empathize with where you are right now. How you feel. I've been there man, stuck in the deepest pit of despair over my heart ache and sense of insanity and injustice. It makes you question your very existence. It's as if who you thought you were was a lie, because of how easily discarded like used tissue they made you feel. It's a very real and very large ego hit. It destroys what's called your ideal self. The truth is they were a lie. Their entire lives are a lie. It was never a real relationship between the two of you. Not on any rational, sane, healthy level. It's not possible with a borderline.

You were abused. Badly. No amount of iron mental defenses a person has, it can quickly wither under the subtle manipulations of a borderline. They have been known to manipulate therapists using tactics like Projective Identification. It's toxic mentally to be around these people for sustained periods of time. Now that I've been out of Oz for awhile I've met women and dated them and immediately recognized the HUGE ridiculous red flags that borderlines exhibit early on in the relationship.

This is true for all borderlines. When you first meet them they are very engaging. They suck you in. Make you feel like home. Their attention is fixated on you, and only you. You feel wanted. What you think is the "chemistry" you've been looking for, is a death trap. You need to run away. Even when they mirror you, within the first or second date, they can't keep the BPD behaviors in check. Look for the subtle signs. How they make quick movements and will do loud things, because they want people to look at them. They always want attention. When I'd go to a bar with my ex, it was always about her from the second we walked in. She wanted people to look at her 24/7. She'd wear really tight outfits so her body was on full display. They want attention 24/7.

When they are mirroring you and sucking you in, remind yourself that there is a guy who really cares about her that is exactly like you. Being played. Manipulated. Used. Taken for granted. Once they smash your boundaries and you accept it, forget it. They have you and then you're in for a world of pain my friend. It never ends well with these people. They are a wrecking ball to all the lives they come in intimate contact with. You're never the only one seeing the BPD behavior and/or being a victim of it. Other people see it too. Their family knows. Deep down, unless they are crazy too. Borderlines stick out like sore thumbs to people who are rational with solid healthy boundaries in place. Healthy people avoid them like the plague.

You have a long journey ahead of you. I'd advise you to start strapping on your boots now, because you're going to go through boot camp. It's going to be an emotional hell for you to truly address the reason why you got involved with this woman. You didn't find this website by accident. None of us do. We went searching for something because we knew something just "wasn't right". Even under all the projection, blaming, rages, confusion, push pull, weird insane behaviors, there was a sane part of us that would not crumble. We googled things like "My ex cheated on me while my father was dying from cancer and now acts like I don't exist literally overnight" and up came with a million hits for BPD.

There are a lot of powerful tools and discussion on these boards for nons who are desperate for help and answers to the private hell they've been living. Nons are victims of abuse and like any victim of extreme abuse, people don't usually talk about it. I'd recommend you go buy the book "One Way Ticket to Kansas". Read it 50 times if you have to until the reality of your situation starts to really sink in.



Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: daydreambeliever on May 27, 2011, 03:23:47 AM
Wow Howzah summed that up in a no mincing words straight shooting way.  :)

do i enter her thoughts at all anymore?  i have been NC for 2 months and she is one of the BPD types that will depart and never come back.  could she very well be with someone new already despite the fact that she kept reiterating over and over again how she needs to be alone for a while?

I feel your pain as I was there once or... .40+ times myself. Seriously do you wanna be that guy that she comes back to and crushes continuously (the pain gets worse each time) then be back in this same position in another month... .and then just keep hitting the repeat button till when- forever? Hell no. I promise you unless she has discovered time travel and zapped herself forward five years and had at least five+years of therapy-then travelled back to you in the present day, nothing will have changed or will change.

I know when I was in that state you appear to be in I was like well I dont just care give him to me bad twisted any which way I just want him and then I'll figure out how to get over him when Ive got him back. Sound like a crack addict much? I was bad.  And he never got better of course he didnt bc of our crazy dance I enabled him so much that he's probably even further along the crazy train of destructive behaviour than he was initially.

Also all the times of 'oh i just want to be alone and be left alone' were whenever there were other people on the scene and he wanted to keep me as a back up plan just in case his plan a)b)c)d) or e) didnt work out at some point.

So the one time my ex and I were right off the communication scene for a year I had heard he was with someone let him go in my mind and wished him well (and her luck) still missed him loved him but it was FADING and getting easier to live with to the point I considered I was at peace with it all  |iiii  Then BAM I get a miss you love you text at 4/5am-I ask whats up what do you want, he says oh nothing, then well actually sht Im engaged and I think Ive upset her. Argh crushed. I give him advice and tell him to sort his sht out with her.Rarara they were over we got together 6 months later (also I might add in this time he slipped and tripped and got another girl pregnant in the meanwhile)  Anyway down the line when the crazy dance is back in full force I asked why did you really get in touch with me that time honestly? He said honestly, its bc I thought you would give me advice and tell me what to do to fix my situation. Stupid me. the reality that they see and are in a relationship that is worlds apart from the one you perceive it to be is the truth.

In fact last time I saw my ex and spoke to him in person (I hadnt seen him for 2/3 months)I was saying Oh Ive missed you its nice to see  you, silence, um have you missed me?  him: to be honest, No my brain doesnt work like that I have too much stuff going on in it.

I asked him if he thought we felt differently about eachother? He said: honestly yeah I do I dont get hung up on the stuff like you do I can look at things you gave me and it doesnt make me think of you (he depersonalises things)

take your power back Matt in you for you and try and fight the drug cravings shes not ever going to be the fulfilment or ideal you think she could should or wouldve been. Best to focus your thinking on you and what you can do to make yourself feel better, the more you exert your thoughts into healing and doing the best thing for you- you wont desire the pain she resembles. How? She cant fix your pain. Only you can. Just like you arent the answer to hers. She is

Good Luck be strong... .for you. It will pass. If you let it. And as a couple of others said consider yourself lucky if she does just stay off the radar. Seriously. They are master manipulators. And we are fix its. Both have attachment intimacy issues. Focus on yours.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: MM on May 27, 2011, 04:41:14 AM
"They were never into you to begin with

They are seriously mentally ill. Stop trying to make sense of her behavior. You can't. Stop trying to rationalize it. That's why it's called "mental illness" and a "Personality Disorder". For a borderline to admit they have BPD is to admit their perceptions of reality have been crazy their entire lives and that they are insane. It's life changing for a BPD to get better. It takes real commitment and you have to constantly be fighting your very perception of reality. Think about that and understand the magnitude of such a thing. It's daunting and is terrifying for someone with BPD. It's alright to take pity on their condition and empathize, but you need to accept it, pity it for a moment, then move on with your life. Forever. There's no going back. She's already violated every possible boundary a healthy person would even begin to accept with you. It's admirable that you still care for her, but take it from someone who knows. They are wasted tears and wasted emotions. Your BPD is not thinking about you at all. She never does. She has new supply now that is meeting her emotional needs at the moment. There is no guilt. No "sigh, I miss him" crap you see in the movies. They are out laughing and having a great time in the arms of another man. Believe it and accept it or you will drive yourself off the cliff emotionally and go crazy yourself. That cloudy thinking leaves you stuck in Oz and vulnerable to that sucking sound of a very good vacuum cleaner. "

I understand they were never into us even though they said so many things that they cared.  I am assuming they can never be into anyone by definition of the disorder?  Am I correct?  That because of the disorder they can never really care about anyone?


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: DragonHeart on May 27, 2011, 05:13:32 AM
Excerpt
I understand they were never into us even though they said so many things that they cared.  I am assuming they can never be into anyone by definition of the disorder?  Am I correct?  That because of the disorder they can never really care about anyone?

That's why they are able to rebound so quickly and instantly erase us from their minds because they were never emotionally invested in us to begin with. Not on a deep level anyway.



Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: AlexDP on May 27, 2011, 05:46:12 AM
Excerpt
I understand they were never into us even though they said so many things that they cared.  I am assuming they can never be into anyone by definition of the disorder?  Am I correct?  That because of the disorder they can never really care about anyone?

That's why they are able to rebound so quickly and instantly erase us from their minds because they were never emotionally invested in us to begin with. Not on a deep level anyway.

I disagree. I'd say most of them are invested in us, but not the way we want them to be. We want some sort of love to exist. There is no love, but there is a bond. And in most cases it never really breaks. At least not for the borderline.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: Matthew_Taylor801 on May 27, 2011, 06:49:33 AM
I have to respectfully disagree there. my ex BPD GF was VERY much into me in the beginning, even though she was mentally twisted.  again, i am learning that BPD comes in many forms.  whatever high she was on when we first met was legit... for 3-4 months she was ecstatic when we were together.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: Worndowndad on May 27, 2011, 07:01:59 AM
Excerpt
That's why they are able to rebound so quickly and instantly erase us from their minds because they were never emotionally invested in us to begin with. Not on a deep level anyway.

This is true for BPD's.  You may want to believe that during the idealization stage she loved you in a special way.  They are not capable of the emotion of unconditional love.  Its more infatuation than the emotion of love. 


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: schwing on May 27, 2011, 11:01:45 AM
I have to respectfully disagree there. my ex BPD GF was VERY much into me in the beginning, even though she was mentally twisted.  again, i am learning that BPD comes in many forms.  whatever high she was on when we first met was legit... for 3-4 months she was ecstatic when we were together.

Yes, she was "high."  In my experience, people with BPD (pwBPD) are always elated at the beginning of any relationship because they are under the delusion that they have finally "found" the "one" who won't trigger their BPD feelings.  The thing is, at that stage, we just haven't triggered them to the point that they are overwhelmed YET. 

And as I have come to understand this disorder, the biggest of their triggers are feelings of intimacy.  In the beginning, there is little "true" intimacy because they barely know us then.  "Real" intimacy kicks in with time and familiarity.  And when that kicks in (if that kicks in, some people are incapable of real intimacy) then so do their disordered feelings.  Then for pwBPD, it's "on no, it happened again."

From your perspective, she was ecstatic because of you; well, that's what she kept telling you the whole time.  From your perspective, she got attached to you and fell in love with you, perhaps just like you did her.  But what is different is she is mentally disorder and with her particular kind of disorder, no only does she attached differently, she doesn't stay attached.  Her feelings always change.  Eventually it changes enough for her to want to leave you.

I know that the feelings she exhibited and expressed at the beginning of your relationship appeared sincere and real.  But if you accept that she is mentally disordered, then you have to consider accepting that she is incapable of forming the kind of attachment you think she formed at the beginning of your relationship.  Otherwise, you are trying to say that she wasn't mentally disorder back then, that she just suddenly became mentally disordered somewhere later down the line.  It doesn't work that way.

If she has BPD, she was never attached to you in the same manner you were attached to her.  Disordered people don't form attachment the way non-disordered people do. 

Is she completely over you?  She was never under you.

Best wishes, Schwing


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: Why Why Why on May 27, 2011, 12:47:40 PM
do i enter her thoughts at all anymore?  i have been NC for 2 months and she is one of the BPD types that will depart and never come back.  could she very well be with someone new already despite the fact that she kept reiterating over and over again how she needs to be alone for a while?

Do you enter her thoughts?  Probably, she is a human being after all and even those with mental illnesses have memories and recollections.  If you were a significant part of her life then she has and will think about you from time to time.  HOWEVER, those thoughts are most likely not to the extent or level you would like them to be.

Is she with someone new?  Chances are likely yes.  My ex gave me the exact same line of "I'm not looking to date or be with anyone I want to be alone and focus on me blah blah blah".  I now have my BPD translater handy and what that usually means is... .she doesn't want you anymore because she has found a replacement.  Sorry to be so blunt, but that's the truth.  If they say they want to be alone, that means they're already with someone else.  She may have even been with this new guy while she was still with you.

You are so much better off without her and need to trust that this is a blessing in disguise.  Your ex was only using you for selfish gain, nothing more.  She is not capable of giving you what you truly want.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: Vagabond on May 27, 2011, 02:51:58 PM
What why just said about them not being able to give you what you want... My ex said that to me right at the end. Now in 5 years she never said that, so you can imagine how much of a shock that was... ah but wait... Why did she say that? ... Yep you guessed it, my replacement was in place ready and waiting.

But ' why' is correct they cant give you what you want, unless you want to be looking over your shoulder all the time waiting for the next hammer blow, or you want to live your life as sherlock holmes always looking for clues to crimes committed against you.



Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: Mystic on May 27, 2011, 05:59:27 PM
It's a bit funny, but I've not really thought about my ex in this way at all.  I haven't wondered if he thinks of me, haven't wondered if he's over me, haven't wondered if he's with someone else, haven't even been able to look back at the "good times" with anything but a kind of shock and horror.  

To me, it would be *impossible* for a person who professed such love and commitment, who made such promises and plans for the future to just turn into the crazy person who turned on me like a mad dog and left without reason and warning.  

So I have to believe that he was indeed disordered, and that none of what I experienced, although very real and genuine to me, was not real to him at all.  

Did he mean it at the time?  I suppose, maybe?  Again, the disorder.  Completely transient feelings... .here one minute gone the next.  

So it doesn't matter if he meant it at the time.

Really, what are the options here.  Either he did mean the love and promises in the early days in which case he is disordered and incapable of sustaining a relationship, or he did not mean it, was calculating in a predator sense, and just crafted and manipulated a relationship for personal gain. 

Kind of a lose/lose, isn't it. 

Given what I saw my ex was capable of doing to me, I haven't wanted him back, even from the start of the breakup.  Yes, I was crushed, wanted answers, wanted an explanation that could make some sort of sense to me, wanted to turn back the clock, wanted at least some peace and resolution between us instead of such unbelievable ugliness, wanted the man I loved back, but having gone to the place it did, the relationship was irretrievably broken.  Trust was destroyed, the belief in him as being a person of good character, an honorable man obliterated.  The person I knew and deeply loved died before my eyes during the leaving time... .he just went on breathing, walking talking... .an entirely different person.  The doppelgänger.  

So, I don't care to know anything about him, how or where he is, what he's doing, who he's with, if he thinks of me.  The man I knew is dead to me.  Gone, and cannot be resurrected.



Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: mrjoeman on May 27, 2011, 06:20:10 PM
I really appreciate all the helpful advice and perspective on this website. I have started to come to the conclusion that I am dealing with a potential BPD who has decided to breakup our marriage. I'm dealing with it accordingly. We've separated now, but we also have 2 wonderful little boys - 5 and 19mo so as a result we need to see each other almost on a daily basis (I have the boys most of the time). At this point it has been 4 weeks since she delivered her message of ending things... .now I've found myself growing more and more angry inside and slowly shutting down, more and more. I can barely talk to her at all. All the elements are there including betrayal and deception. Just wondering what advice people here might have if you must deal with this person on an ongoing basis.

Thanks


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: Checkmate on May 27, 2011, 06:33:45 PM
Sadly, Matthew, what a BPD says and what a BPD does are two different things.

Words and actions frequently contradict eachother in BPD world ... .Sad but true ... .I think we spend alot of time trying to make sense of this behavior ... .It's one of the ways we stay attached and enmeshed ... .At least it's true for me ... .



Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: David Dare on May 27, 2011, 09:58:51 PM
I think what is important here is why this matters to you, Matt.  Why do you want to know if she's thinking about you?


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: GP44 on May 27, 2011, 10:08:28 PM
I think what is important here is why this matters to you, Matt.  Why do you want to know if she's thinking about you?

Because he's still attached. I think back to former girlfriends and love interests that I no longer have feelings for, and it doesn't concern me at all what they think of me, or if I cross their minds at all.

I'm kind of in the same boat 7.5 months removed from a relationship with a woman that I strongly suspect of having a Cluster B personality disorder. The end of our relationship has caused me so much pain - there's a part of me that is curious as to what it was like on her end. It takes a long time to finally reach the conclusion that there is no rational answer for why she did what she did, and that whether she thinks about me or not, she doesn't care enough to pick up the phone and call me.

My uncle kind of put it in perspective for me: ":)o you think she's mourning over you? Do you think she is obsessing over you? Do you think she cares that you are angry at her for how she ended the relationship? You have to give as good as you get and reach a similar state of indifference."


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: once removed on May 29, 2011, 08:55:51 AM
Is she with someone new?  Chances are likely yes.  My ex gave me the exact same line of "I'm not looking to date or be with anyone I want to be alone and focus on me blah blah blah".  I now have my BPD translater handy and what that usually means is... .she doesn't want you anymore because she has found a replacement.  Sorry to be so blunt, but that's the truth.  If they say they want to be alone, that means they're already with someone else.  She may have even been with this new guy while she was still with you.

truth.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: once removed on May 29, 2011, 09:02:21 AM
Given what I saw my ex was capable of doing to me, I haven't wanted him back, even from the start of the breakup.  Yes, I was crushed, wanted answers, wanted an explanation that could make some sort of sense to me, wanted to turn back the clock, wanted at least some peace and resolution between us instead of such unbelievable ugliness, wanted the man I loved back, but having gone to the place it did, the relationship was irretrievably broken.  Trust was destroyed, the belief in him as being a person of good character, an honorable man obliterated.  The person I knew and deeply loved died before my eyes during the leaving time... .he just went on breathing, walking talking... .an entirely different person.  The doppelgänger.  

i feel virtually all of that but my own object constancy struggles with the version that emerged.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: Checkmate on May 29, 2011, 09:41:38 AM
But ' why' is correct they cant give you what you want, unless you want to be looking over your shoulder all the time waiting for the next hammer blow, or you want to live your life as sherlock holmes always looking for clues to crimes committed against you.

This has definitely been my experience ... .Always waiting for the next shoe to drop ... .I had begun to wonder if my expectation that things were going to go wrong contributed to them going wrong ... .But the constant looking for clues, watching everything so you could figure out either, what was coming next or why what happened happened, wore me out.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: 2010 on May 30, 2011, 06:15:53 AM
Excerpt
This has definitely been my experience ... .Always waiting for the next shoe to drop ... .I had begun to wonder if my expectation that things were going to go wrong contributed to them going wrong ... .But the constant looking for clues, watching everything so you could figure out either, what was coming next or why what happened happened, wore me out.

Yes. This is important. At a certain point you will end up making yourself very ill.

Another poster wrote on the Was I loved? thread: "I didn't grasp the reality I was dealing with at the time but I do remember specifically feeling like if I was not there with him all the time then I could not feel safe in the relationship. I realized how easy it would be for him to latch on to someone else who could feed that need. Love is not about need. That's fear."

How can you love if you're afraid the love will leave?  Unfortunately, this fear of abandonment was also my own problem. I did what I had to do. Let go and with love. I thought I could do it with mutual love and respect- so much so that I received an email after I called one afternoon- after the summer ended. (We had not spoken for three months.)

"Thank you for calling this morning. It was wonderful to hear your voice. Today is a very special day to me.  I want to listen to everything you have to say. I want to be your best friend, so you can get to know the real me. I am looking forward to the challenge of my work. I know you have doubts and don't trust me. I don't blame you. I love you, and truly want the best for you. I am here for you. You can call any time. I promise that if I ever feel even the slightest hesitation about my love for you I will tell you. But I have no hesitation whatsoever, and zero interest in anyone else.

I want to be your friend, and get to know each other,and let what will be be. I will work on being alone, and being happy alone. I know I need to continue to work on liking myself in order for you or anyone else to like me.  I think the world of you - I don't say that to please you, it just is the way of it. I want to examine my hub and core issues, and face them so they no longer have any power over me. I want to listen, really listen to everything you have to say.  Take your time, I am calm and working on my stuff. And you are always in my mind and in my heart. ~*~"


By September, he had Married someone else.

You see, it wasn't ever about love. It was about need. As another poster said: "There is no space in love for need, not the bottomless kind that BPs have. A partner can't feed the need so that it's satiated, just like a black hole doesn't get full, no matter how much matter it sucks into it... .That may seem like a harsh metaphor, but I'm not saying that the person is the black hole - I'm saying their NEED is. I don't have that need any more... .But to him, love is something you give and take based on performance."  Borderlines feed off of people. If you're not there- they'll feed off of someone else. That's a FEARsome need. No partner can live like that without getting ill.

I look back now and see my own needs as the culprit in this. They were so lonely and needy and mostly fantasy based on what this person did for me in the beginning, kind of like Tom Hanks in the film Castaway with his imaginary friend, Wilson, the volleyball.  Is Wilson completely over me? The answer is that Wilson wasn't a real person, Wilson was made up in my head. Wilson represented my family of origin and when he fell overboard and got lost, he ripped the scars off of my childhood wounding. But like Tom Hanks, I kind of HAD to lose Wilson, if I was ever going to return to the normal world again. :light:



Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: tornadochaser on May 30, 2011, 10:45:34 AM
Excerpt
You see, it wasn't ever about love. It was about need. As another poster said: "There is no space in love for need, not the bottomless kind that BPs have. A partner can't feed the need so that it's satiated, just like a black hole doesn't get full, no matter how much matter it sucks into it... .That may seem like a harsh metaphor, but I'm not saying that the person is the black hole - I'm saying their NEED is. I don't have that need any more... .But to him, love is something you give and take based on performance."  Borderlines feed off of people. If you're not there- they'll feed off of someone else. That's a FEARsome need. No partner can live like that without getting ill.

I look back now and see my own needs as the culprit in this. They were so lonely and needy and mostly fantasy based on what this person did for me in the beginning, kind of like Tom Hanks in the film Castaway with his imaginary friend, Wilson, the volleyball.  Is Wilson completely over me? The answer is that Wilson wasn't a real person, Wilson was made up in my head. Wilson represented my family of origin and when he fell overboard and got lost, he ripped the scars off of my childhood wounding. But like Tom Hanks, I kind of HAD to lose Wilson, if I was ever going to return to the normal world again. :light:

Wow - this is powerful truth!  You are on the path to healing an greatness!


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: Marcie on May 31, 2011, 04:00:54 AM
great thread I've Learned so much from reading this. Thank you all I had been wondering the same. Does he even think of me anymore?


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: once removed on May 31, 2011, 04:05:23 AM
great thread I've Learned so much from reading this. Thank you all I had been wondering the same. Does he even think of me anymore?

marcie,

he is still a human being. of course he does. you're not erased from his memory or forgotten.the extent to which he does, and the kind of thinking he does aren't really answerable (maybe you'll be able to answer for yourself in time), but you have not been wiped from the face of the earth, if that's what you're asking.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: Checkmate on May 31, 2011, 04:12:44 AM
maybe another way to think of this can be:


It's not that they don't think of us, it's that they think more of themselves than anyone else. We always take second place to whatever else or whoever else they put before us.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: whitedoe on June 02, 2011, 09:50:25 AM
Friend, you are asking a question that only she can answer.  IMO, you are still dependent on her in some way, psychologically/emotionally.

Ignore the things she's said.  They are meaningless.  It's what helped hook you in the first place.  pwBPd tend to be overdramatic about how they express themselves.  I fell for it with my ex and it blinded me.  She said she loved me, but really, it doesn't matter.  Your ex saying she needs to be alone might well be her way of softening the blow to you.  Better to say, "I need to be alone" than to say "We just aren't compatible" or worse.

Instead, focus on where you are today, and where you want to be tomorrow.  Try to imagine a life without her, period.  There is no in between here.  It's all in or all out.  Stop compartmentalizing what type of pwBPD she is.  She is a person who made a decision to end the relationship.  That's all that matters.

Great post, David... .I find myself doing this very thing... ."compartmentalizing" what "type" of pwBPD/NPD he was? I feel like the "crazy one"... .I pray to God that I can stop insanity of "over analyzing" and return to living my life again. After 3 1/2 months, I have to face the painful reality that he does not love me or even really care to know how I'm doing anymore... .He truly "moved on" and never looked back... .

I never contact him, never would (far too proud?) but I remain emotionally/psychologically "hooked" into this painful loss for some reason... .He remains that first thought in my mind when I wake and the last thought before I sleep at night... .Aghhh... .When does this stop? I know this is all about "me", my wounds that are not healing... .and knowing his exact diagnosis and/or where he is in his life right now has little to do with healing myself... .Soo painful... .


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: whitedoe on June 02, 2011, 10:43:25 AM
Excerpt
This has definitely been my experience ... .Always waiting for the next shoe to drop ... .I had begun to wonder if my expectation that things were going to go wrong contributed to them going wrong ... .But the constant looking for clues, watching everything so you could figure out either, what was coming next or why what happened happened, wore me out.

Yes. This is important. At a certain point you will end up making yourself very ill.

Another poster wrote on the Was I loved? thread: "I didn't grasp the reality I was dealing with at the time but I do remember specifically feeling like if I was not there with him all the time then I could not feel safe in the relationship. I realized how easy it would be for him to latch on to someone else who could feed that need. Love is not about need. That's fear."

How can you love if you're afraid the love will leave?  Unfortunately, this fear of abandonment was also my own problem. I did what I had to do. Let go and with love. I thought I could do it with mutual love and respect- so much so that I received an email after I called one afternoon- after the summer ended. (We had not spoken for three months.)

"Thank you for calling this morning. It was wonderful to hear your voice. Today is a very special day to me.  I want to listen to everything you have to say. I want to be your best friend, so you can get to know the real me. I am looking forward to the challenge of my work. I know you have doubts and don't trust me. I don't blame you. I love you, and truly want the best for you. I am here for you. You can call any time. I promise that if I ever feel even the slightest hesitation about my love for you I will tell you. But I have no hesitation whatsoever, and zero interest in anyone else.

I want to be your friend, and get to know each other,and let what will be be. I will work on being alone, and being happy alone. I know I need to continue to work on liking myself in order for you or anyone else to like me.  I think the world of you - I don't say that to please you, it just is the way of it. I want to examine my hub and core issues, and face them so they no longer have any power over me. I want to listen, really listen to everything you have to say.  Take your time, I am calm and working on my stuff. And you are always in my mind and in my heart. ~*~"


By September, he had Married someone else.

You see, it wasn't ever about love. It was about need. As another poster said: "There is no space in love for need, not the bottomless kind that BPs have. A partner can't feed the need so that it's satiated, just like a black hole doesn't get full, no matter how much matter it sucks into it... .That may seem like a harsh metaphor, but I'm not saying that the person is the black hole - I'm saying their NEED is. I don't have that need any more... .But to him, love is something you give and take based on performance."  Borderlines feed off of people. If you're not there- they'll feed off of someone else. That's a FEARsome need. No partner can live like that without getting ill.

I look back now and see my own needs as the culprit in this. They were so lonely and needy and mostly fantasy based on what this person did for me in the beginning, kind of like Tom Hanks in the film Castaway with his imaginary friend, Wilson, the volleyball.  Is Wilson completely over me? The answer is that Wilson wasn't a real person, Wilson was made up in my head. Wilson represented my family of origin and when he fell overboard and got lost, he ripped the scars off of my childhood wounding. But like Tom Hanks, I kind of HAD to lose Wilson, if I was ever going to return to the normal world again. :light:

2010, as I read this post, it brings to mind the “angst” I used to feel when we parted. Ours was an LD relationship (very unnecessarily so, due to his various limitations, parenting schedules, etc... .but that’s another “red flag” that I choose to ignore). None the less,  when we would say goodbye, my eyes would tear up... .this was because there was a “strange” pattern with him. I knew that when I left, over time (1-2 weeks) he would start “forgetting”... .It was as though he could not hold onto the amazing time, the closeness, the connection that we had during the time we’d just spent together... .His communications would “derail”, becoming less intimate and more “impersonal”. I began to feel that unless I was there more, physically with him, he would “forget” us? I couldn’t understand this behavior in him? It confused me so much b/c once we returned together physically again, it was right where we left off?

I used to hold him close to me upon parting and whisper to him, “remember, remember us” while I’m gone... .He didn’t share the emotions of our partings... .He seemed “disconnected” while I quietly cried. I became “afraid” to leave him physically because I knew the emotional distance that would inevitably follow each time... . 

This feels like a “variation” of your poster who stated:

"I didn't grasp the reality I was dealing with at the time but I do remember specifically feeling like if I was not there with him all the time then I could not feel safe in the relationship. I realized how easy it would be for him to latch on to someone else who could feed that need. Love is not about need. That's fear."

I now realize that I did not feel “safe” in the relationship. If I weren’t physically present, he would “forget”... .I don’t believe he turned to “other women” but rather, he filled his world with “extracurriculars” as he would call them... .He had an absolute obsession with singing... .it consumed many of his evenings and the better part of many weekends... .Multiple chorus practices and concerts... .And his beautiful daughters filled the rest of his life... .Yes, he was still not “divorced” but I believe that relationship to be “non-intimate”... .a “pathological contract” as was pointed out to me... .and another topic for a different post... .


Once I was gone, I never knew “which” mood he would be in when we spoke on the phone again... .“warm/intimate” or “withdrawn/sad” or extremely “anxious”... .Aghh... .nothing was ever “stable”... .I could never count on him to do what he said he would do... .Alway excuses and drama, inconsistencies, confusion, chaos, ... .no stability in him? Aghh... .Not until we were back together physically, then all was “beautiful” again - almost always... .He would tell me how much he "craved me"... .all that passion, seduction, amazing love making, everything I needed... .I used to say "honey, you're back"... .Aghh... .Yes, meaning the man physically with me had returned from the "abyss" - that period of time that we were physically apart seemed like the abyss to me?

I’m sorry I am digressing here... .But there was something in this post that triggered that feeling “unsafe” with him... .and it really didn’t have anything to do with another woman? I wonder if this makes sense to anyone else? So many posts are about pwBPD moving on with other people so quickly... .In my situation, it wasn’t another “person”, just “out of sight, forgotten”... .and a life filled with “extracurriculars”... .? I can’t begin to speak to the times that our plans to be together were preempted by “last minute” chorus rehearsals? Aghh... .More painful memories... .


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: harlemgurl on June 02, 2011, 11:42:53 PM
Wow.

Reading the responses just makes me feel like the biggest loser. I fell in love with a cloud of smoke.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: once removed on June 03, 2011, 12:06:37 AM
wd,

"After 3 1/2 months, I have to face the painful reality that he does not love me or even really care to know how I'm doing anymore... .He truly "moved on" and never looked back... ."

i think you might be looking at that reality a little more painfully than need be. the way that you put this humanizes him in kind of simplistic way. it's not like a normal person "caring to know how you're doing anymore" or not. let's not forget there are powerful things at work in his disordered mind, built in defense mechanisms. to me it's a bit more like (and this is admittedly speculating) he CAN'T care to know how you're doing. you're personalizing it. and that is painful. but really see it for the disorder that it is. not that "he" "doesn't" "care" "about YOU." that may not be true, for one thing. but if it's true, it's because he can't, not because he doesn't. i don't want to sound nitpicky, but i think there's a difference, and one way is a bit more painful a way to look at it, and i think it misses the full picture. the full picture is perhaps less painful. hopefully.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: whitedoe on June 03, 2011, 08:46:56 AM
They were never into you to begin with

They are seriously mentally ill. Stop trying to make sense of her behavior. You can't. Stop trying to rationalize it. That's why it's called "mental illness" and a "Personality Disorder". For a borderline to admit they have BPD is to admit their perceptions of reality have been crazy their entire lives and that they are insane. It's life changing for a BPD to get better. It takes real commitment and you have to constantly be fighting your very perception of reality. Think about that and understand the magnitude of such a thing. It's daunting and is terrifying for someone with BPD. It's alright to take pity on their condition and empathize, but you need to accept it, pity it for a moment, then move on with your life. Forever. There's no going back. She's already violated every possible boundary a healthy person would even begin to accept with you. It's admirable that you still care for her, but take it from someone who knows. They are wasted tears and wasted emotions. Your BPD is not thinking about you at all. She never does. She has new supply now that is meeting her emotional needs at the moment. There is no guilt. No "sigh, I miss him" crap you see in the movies. They are out laughing and having a great time in the arms of another man. Believe it and accept it or you will drive yourself off the cliff emotionally and go crazy yourself. That cloudy thinking leaves you stuck in Oz and vulnerable to that sucking sound of a very good vacuum cleaner.

A lot of people cling on to a desperate hope that "there's a chance", because there have been VERY FEW success stories. BPD is never cured though. It's a life long condition, yes even with DBT. Borderlines can only learn to recognize suppress and control their behavioral urges. Not stop them. There is biological evidence to prove this and there is very intriguing data about how the amydala can be a key factor in the illness, on how there is differences between normal people and borderlines in this regard.

You have to stay NC to protect you from yourself. I know what would happen if she contacted you right now. You'd be on your guard, but you'd talk to her, feel the intoxication of her attention because it's feeding your addiction to her. She would seem normal, maybe even tell you "You're really the one. She needs you. Only you understand her... blah blah blah"... .but you have to understand, when you're dealing with a borderline, it's never about you. Ever. "It's always about them."

Once that simple statement, "It's always about them" truly resonates within you and you accept it, you will never be over this relationship. It's taken me years to start to feel normal again after my relationship. I'm only telling you this because I empathize with where you are right now. How you feel. I've been there man, stuck in the deepest pit of despair over my heart ache and sense of insanity and injustice. It makes you question your very existence. It's as if who you thought you were was a lie, because of how easily discarded like used tissue they made you feel. It's a very real and very large ego hit. It destroys what's called your ideal self. The truth is they were a lie. Their entire lives are a lie. It was never a real relationship between the two of you. Not on any rational, sane, healthy level. It's not possible with a borderline.

You were abused. Badly. No amount of iron mental defenses a person has, it can quickly wither under the subtle manipulations of a borderline. They have been known to manipulate therapists using tactics like Projective Identification. It's toxic mentally to be around these people for sustained periods of time. Now that I've been out of Oz for awhile I've met women and dated them and immediately recognized the HUGE ridiculous red flags that borderlines exhibit early on in the relationship.

This is true for all borderlines. When you first meet them they are very engaging. They suck you in. Make you feel like home. Their attention is fixated on you, and only you. You feel wanted. What you think is the "chemistry" you've been looking for, is a death trap. You need to run away. Even when they mirror you, within the first or second date, they can't keep the BPD behaviors in check. Look for the subtle signs. How they make quick movements and will do loud things, because they want people to look at them. They always want attention. When I'd go to a bar with my ex, it was always about her from the second we walked in. She wanted people to look at her 24/7. She'd wear really tight outfits so her body was on full display. They want attention 24/7.

When they are mirroring you and sucking you in, remind yourself that there is a guy who really cares about her that is exactly like you. Being played. Manipulated. Used. Taken for granted. Once they smash your boundaries and you accept it, forget it. They have you and then you're in for a world of pain my friend. It never ends well with these people. They are a wrecking ball to all the lives they come in intimate contact with. You're never the only one seeing the BPD behavior and/or being a victim of it. Other people see it too. Their family knows. Deep down, unless they are crazy too. Borderlines stick out like sore thumbs to people who are rational with solid healthy boundaries in place. Healthy people avoid them like the plague.

You have a long journey ahead of you. I'd advise you to start strapping on your boots now, because you're going to go through boot camp. It's going to be an emotional hell for you to truly address the reason why you got involved with this woman. You didn't find this website by accident. None of us do. We went searching for something because we knew something just "wasn't right". Even under all the projection, blaming, rages, confusion, push pull, weird insane behaviors, there was a sane part of us that would not crumble. We googled things like "My ex cheated on me while my father was dying from cancer and now acts like I don't exist literally overnight" and up came with a million hits for BPD.

There are a lot of powerful tools and discussion on these boards for nons who are desperate for help and answers to the private hell they've been living. Nons are victims of abuse and like any victim of extreme abuse, people don't usually talk about it. I'd recommend you go buy the book "One Way Ticket to Kansas". Read it 50 times if you have to until the reality of your situation starts to really sink in.

Aghh... .I appreciate this post so much, Howzah... . I definitely need to read this post of yours 5000 times... .  And then, I'll find that book and read it as well - thank you!

For me, the emotional abuse was much more "subtle", the narcissism blatantly present, and confusion and chaos- over the top?... .

But the "bait" was his warm, sensitive (where did that go?) heart that aggressively pursued me and took me "off balance"... .I'd never experienced such a feeling of being "loved, adored, and craved" by a man in my entire life... .

Having never heard of BPD and/or NPD, I simple couldn't figure out why I felt so drawn to him yet at the same time also felt "nervous", as though something just wasn't "right" with him... .there was an incongruence with his words/deeds... .I was given the words, the poems, the lovemaking but where were the "actions/deeds" that showed me that he cared about "me" at all? That was the piece that never added up? It was always all about him!- Definitely was in my r/s... . So confusing?

WhiteDoe


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: Marcie on June 06, 2011, 01:21:02 AM
This is probably a bad example but when I think does he miss me?

I think does Casey Anthony miss her ex? I doubt it. She seems to only be into herself. Thats probably how he is regarding me. It's like, why keep going to a dry well for water... .Im not going to get any water.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: Split black on April 09, 2014, 07:01:16 PM
They were never into you to begin with

They are seriously mentally ill. Stop trying to make sense of her behavior. You can't. Stop trying to rationalize it. That's why it's called "mental illness" and a "Personality Disorder". For a borderline to admit they have BPD is to admit their perceptions of reality have been crazy their entire lives and that they are insane. It's life changing for a BPD to get better. It takes real commitment and you have to constantly be fighting your very perception of reality. Think about that and understand the magnitude of such a thing. It's daunting and is terrifying for someone with BPD. It's alright to take pity on their condition and empathize, but you need to accept it, pity it for a moment, then move on with your life. Forever. There's no going back. She's already violated every possible boundary a healthy person would even begin to accept with you. It's admirable that you still care for her, but take it from someone who knows. They are wasted tears and wasted emotions. Your BPD is not thinking about you at all. She never does. She has new supply now that is meeting her emotional needs at the moment. There is no guilt. No "sigh, I miss him" crap you see in the movies. They are out laughing and having a great time in the arms of another man. Believe it and accept it or you will drive yourself off the cliff emotionally and go crazy yourself. That cloudy thinking leaves you stuck in Oz and vulnerable to that sucking sound of a very good vacuum cleaner.

A lot of people cling on to a desperate hope that "there's a chance", because there have been VERY FEW success stories. BPD is never cured though. It's a life long condition, yes even with DBT. Borderlines can only learn to recognize suppress and control their behavioral urges. Not stop them. There is biological evidence to prove this and there is very intriguing data about how the amydala can be a key factor in the illness, on how there is differences between normal people and borderlines in this regard.

You have to stay NC to protect you from yourself. I know what would happen if she contacted you right now. You'd be on your guard, but you'd talk to her, feel the intoxication of her attention because it's feeding your addiction to her. She would seem normal, maybe even tell you "You're really the one. She needs you. Only you understand her... blah blah blah"... . but you have to understand, when you're dealing with a borderline, it's never about you. Ever. "It's always about them."

Once that simple statement, "It's always about them" truly resonates within you and you accept it, you will never be over this relationship. It's taken me years to start to feel normal again after my relationship. I'm only telling you this because I empathize with where you are right now. How you feel. I've been there man, stuck in the deepest pit of despair over my heart ache and sense of insanity and injustice. It makes you question your very existence. It's as if who you thought you were was a lie, because of how easily discarded like used tissue they made you feel. It's a very real and very large ego hit. It destroys what's called your ideal self. The truth is they were a lie. Their entire lives are a lie. It was never a real relationship between the two of you. Not on any rational, sane, healthy level. It's not possible with a borderline.

You were abused. Badly. No amount of iron mental defenses a person has, it can quickly wither under the subtle manipulations of a borderline. They have been known to manipulate therapists using tactics like Projective Identification. It's toxic mentally to be around these people for sustained periods of time. Now that I've been out of Oz for awhile I've met women and dated them and immediately recognized the HUGE ridiculous red flags that borderlines exhibit early on in the relationship.

This is true for all borderlines. When you first meet them they are very engaging. They suck you in. Make you feel like home. Their attention is fixated on you, and only you. You feel wanted. What you think is the "chemistry" you've been looking for, is a death trap. You need to run away. Even when they mirror you, within the first or second date, they can't keep the BPD behaviors in check. Look for the subtle signs. How they make quick movements and will do loud things, because they want people to look at them. They always want attention. When I'd go to a bar with my ex, it was always about her from the second we walked in. She wanted people to look at her 24/7. She'd wear really tight outfits so her body was on full display. They want attention 24/7.

When they are mirroring you and sucking you in, remind yourself that there is a guy who really cares about her that is exactly like you. Being played. Manipulated. Used. Taken for granted. Once they smash your boundaries and you accept it, forget it. They have you and then you're in for a world of pain my friend. It never ends well with these people. They are a wrecking ball to all the lives they come in intimate contact with. You're never the only one seeing the BPD behavior and/or being a victim of it. Other people see it too. Their family knows. Deep down, unless they are crazy too. Borderlines stick out like sore thumbs to people who are rational with solid healthy boundaries in place. Healthy people avoid them like the plague.

You have a long journey ahead of you. I'd advise you to start strapping on your boots now, because you're going to go through boot camp. It's going to be an emotional hell for you to truly address the reason why you got involved with this woman. You didn't find this website by accident. None of us do. We went searching for something because we knew something just "wasn't right". Even under all the projection, blaming, rages, confusion, push pull, weird insane behaviors, there was a sane part of us that would not crumble. We googled things like "My ex cheated on me while my father was dying from cancer and now acts like I don't exist literally overnight" and up came with a million hits for BPD.

There are a lot of powerful tools and discussion on these boards for nons who are desperate for help and answers to the private hell they've been living. Nons are victims of abuse and like any victim of extreme abuse, people don't usually talk about it. I'd recommend you go buy the book "One Way Ticket to Kansas". Read it 50 times if you have to until the reality of your situation starts to really sink in.

I wanted to recycle this thread because this is exactly how I wish I didnt have to feel but do. Within the body of these paragraphs is a reality Im still striving to totally accept. Day by day... .   Im going to get my head into this space. I swear it.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: dansure on April 10, 2014, 04:35:56 AM
Wow, this is by far the best thread I have been reading on this board so far! Great posts!


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: GuiltHaunted on April 10, 2014, 12:46:55 PM
3 months after my uBPDexgf broke up with me (3 month into her new relationship with my replacement, her sister's exbf!), I picked up my last stuff at her place. Her iPhone had just broken, and as the "nice guy" I am, I offered to backup her picture and send her on a CD. Actually, it was selfish looking for the answers that she didn't give me. I backed up all of the phone and was able to read her messages (which I in hindsight wouldn't recommend anyone). Anyway, about 1 1/2 month after the breakup, she wrote her friend something along the lines of:

"... . it's crazy, I often think about GuiltHaunted"

Only, send my mind spinning: what does often mean? As I was thinking about her 24/7, "often" didn't really cut it for me! 

Beside from that, every message she send "sister___er" resemble messages she had sent me in the past, complete with same motive pictures and emoticons.



Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: Split black on April 11, 2014, 12:35:27 AM
3 months after my uBPDexgf broke up with me (3 month into her new relationship with my replacement, her sister's exbf!), I picked up my last stuff at her place. Her iPhone had just broken, and as the "nice guy" I am, I offered to backup her picture and send her on a CD. Actually, it was selfish looking for the answers that she didn't give me. I backed up all of the phone and was able to read her messages (which I in hindsight wouldn't recommend anyone). Anyway, about 1 1/2 month after the breakup, she wrote her friend something along the lines of:

"... . it's crazy, I often think about GuiltHaunted"

Only, send my mind spinning: what does often mean? As I was thinking about her 24/7, "often" didn't really cut it for me! 

Beside from that, every message she send "sister___er" resemble messages she had sent me in the past, complete with same motive pictures and emoticons.

What it means is that shes doing her sisters exbf and shes going to cheat on him with someone else. Hope its not going to be you... . run.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: BorisAcusio on April 11, 2014, 04:04:38 AM
Beside from that, every message she send "sister___er" resemble messages she had sent me in the past, complete with same motive pictures and emoticons.

Well, after our first recycle I logged into her Facebook account just to found out she was screwing a guy behind my back. She used the exact(!) same sentences, character by character to seduce him. It was like a damn script.

Then she tried to turn me into an emotional tampoo/orbiter just like her every other exes. You thought it was all special? It wasn't... .


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: GuiltHaunted on April 11, 2014, 07:38:01 AM
The first 2 months after the breakup (when she wrote that message to her friend), I was only in very very low contact with her (practical stuff only). A few weeks after the mail, she seriously raged at me pr. Whatsapp, accusing me of moving on too fast and having had someone behind her back (all projection, all stuff that she did).

And I think, that rage attack was actually a sign that she was done with me. She even wrote so: "now it's finally the time to tell you something... . " and the the rage and name calling (I am apparently the worst a$$hole EVER to walk the planet).

I had been so strong up till then, but broke completely down, and poored my emotions on her because her perception was so skewed. The result was regret and compassion from her raging, but also total indifference. So I think it maked the point where she was done with me... .

That's all 9-10 months ago, and the neutral talk continued (to my pain) until around Xmas. Since them we have been in NC on my request.

I don't think I will ever hear from her again.


Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: expos on April 11, 2014, 11:51:52 AM
Well - look at it this way... .

Did they ever talk about their exes when they were with you?  I know mine did, and never had flattering thing to say about any of them.  What's odd is that I actually met one of them, and he was a VERY good guy.

So yeah, they might be completely over you - but they do get triggered by memories.  My ex had a boyfriend who liked the show Family Guy.  I never watched the show, to be honest, but flipped it on briefly one day and watched a few minutes out of curiosity.  She told me to shut it off immediately.

because HE used to watch it.

BPD don't like to deal with their problems or acknowledge faults.  They want to FORGET and suppress all the terrible things they did to their exes.   They never feel they are to blame.   She doesn't WANT to think about you, so they move on fast to forget you.

Don't worry, there is no real cure to this.  Your replacement will suffer the same fate.  You were nothing special to them, just like your replacement will be nothing special in 5 months or 5 years down the road.



Title: Re: is she completely over me?
Post by: Mutt on April 11, 2014, 12:18:47 PM
BPD don't like to deal with their problems or acknowledge faults.  They want to FORGET and suppress all the terrible things they did to their exes.   They never feel they are to blame.   She doesn't WANT to think about you, so they move on fast to forget you.

On the flip side, I have seen non's that don't acknowledge their true feelings and distort them. I've seen people that have exit affairs, only to enter into another r/s without missing a beat  

Don't worry, there is no real cure to this.  Your replacement will suffer the same fate.  You were nothing special to them, just like your replacement will be nothing special in 5 months or 5 years down the road.

I can honestly say that I didn't get that vibe from my ex. That I meant nothing, I think that she tried her best with what she has. At her core, she was a damaged, abandoned little girl.