BPDFamily.com

I could use some advice from your Wise Minds.

I knew ds would rethink this and now he is saying that he needs help and does not want to go to prison.

If the DA would ever agree to this ds said that he would now like to enter into long term treatment.

BUT... .  and here's the kicker.

He wants to do two separate programs.  Maybe 6 months in a program for only substance abuse then another 6 months in a program that addresses the BPD. He does not want a dual diagnosis place.  He says they don't work.

He would like to do them in NY.  When I asked him how this time would be different from all the others he said it's because he would be very afraid of ending up in prison in NY.  NY prisons are much scarier than Colorado.

He lies all the time so I have no idea if he really believes he can do it successfully this time.

So putting all that aside here's my question. 

Would it be best to address the drug abuse/addiction first or the BPD?

I asked him that same question and he said they are so connected he didn't know but he thinks the addiction treatment should come first.

I'm so tired I really don't want to even take on the job of trying to find a place.  But I will.

Addiction first

I wish I could help you. I have zero experience with this.

I'm just sending you good thoughts. I hope you find the right solution.

Best

To you

AV

Sorry, I do not know the specific background of your son.  That being said, many many "offenders" do become sober inside prison walls.  How they do their time is a determination that individual will need to come to terms with, hopefully before entering the gates at Intake.  Prison also offers a lot of structure... .  dictating what time lights out, dictating what time you eat, etc.  Also, prisons generally have an Assessment and Evaluation process at the beginning of serving one's term... .  1. AODA, 2. Mental Health, 3. Dual diagnosis.  Then they each have waiting lists and security levels (max, med, min) that go with each type of program, depending upon other factors such as length of term AND IMPORTANTLY - conduct record while doing time.  Finally, I would like to add, while prisons have a lot of opportunities to get hooked into the wrong crowd or trouble, when run properly--- they do afford someone to restructure their life, recover, and rebuild, especially with a strong support system on the outside.

On the other hand,


OK


you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you get what you need... .  truism


Hmmm... .  really?  In what way, don't they work?  Just curious?

Sometimes, that which we resist most... .  can help the most. (hell, don't ask me why... .  think it has something to do with overcoming fear, approaching that which we have been avoiding, or just plain learning life skills of letting go, doing one's best every day, developing flexibility and finding adjustment / adaptation)

It's nice to have some input in your "recovery" process, no doubt, but is having absolute control a necessary prerequiste to build upon success for soberiety or develop the appropriate mindset to set the stage for recovery... .  ?  Seems wanting to have control over the process, over which one has lost control... .  i.e. life has become unmanageable... .  is sort of a contradiction of terms, perhaps reflective of some "bargaining" or "denial" in which a digging in of one's heels and acting against one's own best interests gets played out, till another bottom, or deeper bottom reappears.

What's his take on the 12 Steps?

So how's this:

Stage One:

1. Soberiety first.  Get clean.  However, whereever necessary.  Whether in A,B,C... .  

A.  Prison walls, hopefully with some programing

B.  AODA program-on the outside if DA goes along with

C.  :)ual Dx program (one that addresses aoda but also lets say depression, anxiety, anger (mood disorder)-take what you can get


Stage Two:

upon successful achievement of stage two, then the deeper work of sustaining change and growing even more BPD skills of recovery and emotional, interpersonal health begins.

1.  BPD tx... .  while maintaining gains of sobereity

Note:

Some programs inside prisons have clinicians with schema therapy backgrounds.

Just based on gut instincts, I would tend to agree that doing time in colorado versus new york may be preferable.  Have no idea what their programs look like.

Sounds like a long road ahead... .  

I am not a parent of someone with BPD. My sister-in-law fits the old DSM-IV criteria for BPD, but she is not diagnosed. She has medicated with alcohol, marijuana, bulimia, anorexia, and self harm for decades. She has been sober and attending AA for almost six months. Things are not perfect, but addressing the addiction to alcohol has brought a level of stability to her life that I have not seen in her in over a decade. She is approaching 60. I don't know if she will ever be able to address a specifically "mental health" issue, but I think the sobriety and AA environment provides a level of support and counseling that is giving her tools for her emotional/mental health issues.

My vote is address the addiction first.

Pilate

Addiction, first... .  

Reality

I think I also lean toward addiction first -- since my DD26 has been under court monitoring with her DWAI (first on bond, now on probation) she has become more self-aware. She also needs a semi-stable supportive environment - which she gets being in our home. Her biggest issue is getting bored - then she hangs out with friends, now she seems to be blowing her probation. So how long until the violate her, issue the warrant and take her to jail?

For you son - what seems to lead to his failure in other programs? And he seems unable to answer this, and how it would be different now. The addiction can be addressed from inside prison, if he chooses. He has to be the one choosing to participate in the program.

I know how much you love your son - you have given all that you have to him - seems there is little left to give. Are you able to step back a bit and let the lawyer and your S work on this outcome? So hard.

qcr  

If you have to choose, then I too addiction first. why, one reason is that is lays ground rules for behaviour and dealing with the addiction. It's not possible to adequately address BPD issues while continuing with an addiction. Also, the treatment for BPD builds upon what is undertaken in addiction treatment. So, doing addiction first lays the foundation for BPD treatment in many ways. At least that is what I think... .  

good luck

Vivek    

You guys are the best!  We left it up to ds to decide what was his  biggest challange and he said drugs.  I try but I cannot get inside his head.

Seekeroftruth... .  I had to laugh at the "you can't always get what you want... .  I remember seeing them in concert!

Seems like the general consensus is addiction first.  Ds and I agree.  Stay tuned.

 

date=1358463002]
Sorry, I do not know the specific background of your son.  That being said, many many "offenders" do become sober inside prison walls.  How they do their time is a determination that individual will need to come to terms with, hopefully before entering the gates at Intake.  Prison also offers a lot of structure... .  dictating what time lights out, dictating what time you eat, etc.  Also, prisons generally have an Assessment and Evaluation process at the beginning of serving one's term... .  1. AODA, 2. Mental Health, 3. Dual diagnosis.  Then they each have waiting lists and security levels (max, med, min) that go with each type of program, depending upon other factors such as length of term AND IMPORTANTLY - conduct record while doing time.  Finally, I would like to add, while prisons have a lot of opportunities to get hooked into the wrong crowd or trouble, when run properly--- they do afford someone to restructure their life, recover, and rebuild, especially with a strong support system on the outside.

On the other hand,


OK


you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you get what you need... .  truism


Hmmm... .  really?  In what way, don't they work?  Just curious?

Sometimes, that which we resist most... .  can help the most. (hell, don't ask me why... .  think it has something to do with overcoming fear, approaching that which we have been avoiding, or just plain learning life skills of letting go, doing one's best every day, developing flexibility and finding adjustment / adaptation)

It's nice to have some input in your "recovery" process, no doubt, but is having absolute control a necessary prerequiste to build upon success for soberiety or develop the appropriate mindset to set the stage for recovery... .  ?  Seems wanting to have control over the process, over which one has lost control... .  i.e. life has become unmanageable... .  is sort of a contradiction of terms, perhaps reflective of some "bargaining" or "denial" in which a digging in of one's heels and acting against one's own best interests gets played out, till another bottom, or deeper bottom reappears.

What's his take on the 12 Steps?

So how's this:

Stage One:

1. Soberiety first.  Get clean.  However, whereever necessary.  Whether in A,B,C... .  

A.  Prison walls, hopefully with some programing

B.  AODA program-on the outside if DA goes along with

C.  Dual Dx program (one that addresses aoda but also lets say depression, anxiety, anger (mood disorder)-take what you can get


Stage Two:

upon successful achievement of stage two, then the deeper work of sustaining change and growing even more BPD skills of recovery and emotional, interpersonal health begins.

1.  BPD tx... .  while maintaining gains of sobereity

Note:

Some programs inside prisons have clinicians with schema therapy backgrounds.

Just based on gut instincts, I would tend to agree that doing time in colorado versus new york may be preferable.  Have no idea what their programs look like.

Sounds like a long road ahead... .  [/quote]

My dd went to one of the duel diagnosis programs and got kicked out for having sex in the broom closet with another patient. She just  graduated from a re-hab clinic and is doing so much better. Her life still sucks but, she is making better choices. The best choice she has made is to leave her SO who was supposed to have been working and finding a decent place to live, so they can try to get the children returned to them. Well, he didn't do that and she suspects he is back using, so she left him. She has already earmarked a new fellow though, which fits into her pattern of BPD.

She tells me that no Pdoc in her city thinks she has BPD, so the chance of her getting the help she needs is remote.

Drug rehab first, for sure.

If someone had diabetes and was also an alcoholic and not "treating" her diabetes because she was drunk all the time and hell bent on staying drunk

and she went to a clinic to get treatment for the diabetes,

the first thing she would be told is to quit drinking because unless she gets treatment for drinking she will continue to have the diabetes.

And then there is the part that if you let an addict choose between the two, they will make whatever choice allows them to continue drinking.

thurs

Qcarolr

We have no choice but to stand back.  It's all up to the DA and the sentencing judge.  But the lawyer is trying to convince the DA that this kid would be better off in treatment than in prison.

Ds knows if he gets kicked out its right back to prison.

Am I absolutely sure he can complete a residential anything?  No.

But if he's given the opportunity it's up to him and its going to be hard work. 

I hope he can do it but I'm not sure and there's nothing I can say to guide him.

Work the program or get kicked out and go to prison in NY.

If DA ok's we will not be looking at one of those expensive rehabs.  We'll be looking at places like Phoenix House, Odyssey House.  Places for people with no money so he'll pay with his SSD and Medicare. 

He's been in AA in the past and does buy into the 12 steps.  And he has a very strong belief in god.

cfh,

Your son is a darling.  What a truly wonderful man!

Reality

addiction... .  IMHO only

I told my dh that I posted this question here and the answer was unanimously addiction/drugs first!

My ds also thinks that's the best way to go.

Now it's up to lawyer and DA if they can work out a deal.

In the meantime I am looking at Phoenix House and Odyssey House in NYC.  They are not one of those super lux Malibu type places. They are pretty bare bones.

Ds only has SSD which they may take and they are long term... .  like 9-18 month programs.

Maybe he can do it, maybe not. 

Hope springs eternal.

Odyssey House here in Aust is a good place to be. It has a great success rate.

cheers,

Vivek