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I've seen so many people here with similar stories of how their exes won't return their stuff or even politely respond about what to do with their stuff.

It was a nightmare trying to get my stuff back from my ex! She dumped me yet she didn't even have the courtesy to respond about returning my stuff. I was getting total silence anyway (shed changed her number etc)-it was madness.

I had to wait weeks and send countless requests. She one day coldly dumped 3 books on my sidewalk but not the rest of my stuff. I never heard from her what happened to it.

I had to even ask her flat mate for assistance in retrieving it! And he was rude as hell... Told me my ex wants me "out of her life" and doesn't want to talk to me. And my behaviour was apparently unacceptable?

Craaaaaazy! All this because I wanted my things returned!

I don't think my ex us keeping my other stuff hostage but she is deliberately choosing to not respond about it... about anything- because she's cut me off.

But it feels like she enjoyed punishing me with silence and seeing me getting angrier and angrier that she was ignoring me .

What is this about? Is it about controlling you? Is it part if the silence to keep it all consistent ie she's not responding about me trying to reconcile so she won't respond about my stuff too?

It sounds like you are allowing her to control you. 

Sometimes during a break up, we may need to let some things go... .  is it worth it to continue to be aggravated over some personal belongings, or do you want to move on and let it go?

I agree with you completely, but would you not argue that in a normal break up in a 'normal' r/s, even though the break up was a bit messy, giving back stuff from a pure logical (!) sense would make things easier for both(!) parties? Because then you don't have to look at her/his stuff anymore and do you know that there isnt anything anymore which keeps you 2 together.

This is a crazily familiar topic---I've started, added to and ended forum topics on this subject.

Not trying to incite a riot, but my opinion runs counter to the majority.

I ran into precisely the same issues as you--after 11 years of a relationship. Sick and tired of ignoring my polite requests for return of property (we're not talking much here gang--2 to 3k at most)... .  I got a lawyer, filed papers and let him deal with her NC. End result was that I got all that I wanted back.

I say, DO NOT back off. If it's truly your stuff? And you want it? GET IT!

i tried but couldn't/cant possibly understand the motivation of a crazy person so I quit trying and let my lawyer do it. It's the only thing she understood.

NS

Thanks for your response.

Well, my ex returned 3 books of mine... .  (after I emailed her several times to) by dumping them on my sidewalk with no note. But she still returned them nonetheless. So what is weird is why she wouldn't return the rest of it by now! It's be 5.5 months.

Her flatmate (also her best friend) angrily told me she doesn't have the rest of my stuff.

I am missing: a ring my Mum bought me, watch, clothing, hairdryer. I don't really care about the clothing and hair dryer but it's on principle I guess.

I don't feel my ex is nutty enough to withhold my ring and watch. I think she has lost it.

But she should TELL me this. That's what I want... I want her to call me or email me and tell me she lost it or that she has no idea where it is

Instead I had to cop abuse from her friend over the phone that she doesn't want to talk to me... she doesn't have the stuff... and she wants me out of her life.

This is a 28 year old woman. She is such a coward that she has to get her friend to do her dirty work for her.

Diana – it appears that it’s working! You are further punishing yourself by attempting to get your stuff back – knowing full well you are dealing with a mentally ill person and you are angry!

Why is it that you are angry? Is it really about your stuff or is about the fact she is not contacting you?


To be honest – out of sight out of mind – you are no longer in her thoughts. Sounds harsh however this is the nature of the disorder.

Simply said – we were needed for a while and now we are not. Is there a reason why you need her back in your life? What do you want from this relationship? What are you hoping to gain from reconciling – not to mention the fact that reconciliation is difficult if she is not communicating with you.

D82, what do you want from your life?

I didn't have an issue with stuff not being returned... their wasn't any. But, what I did have was giant disparity in what I gave her/she gave me. We both made good money, however, she hinted and wanted things. A ring (promise... but nice gold/rubies)... couch and chair were shot... nice sofa/loveseat/recliner, her computer was ancient, laptop, wireless printer, vacuum, etc... all in all a lot of nice stuff. Also trips to Eagles concert, TSO, trip to Puerto Rico... really a lot of nice stuff.

Now going the other way... I got a $100 gift card, and 8 shirts... (spread out over time)... the thing on the shirts... she threw a hissy fit over something and I ended up paying her back for them.

Not exactly evenly balanced... .  (not that I expect that when dating)... but this is pretty one sided.

Then she was a no show for us to move in, wouldn't contact me, so I went NC... few weeks later she is on FB with a new guy... 6 mos passes, he dumps her (said she was unstable)... and she contacts me and wants sympathy, says he drained her dry... .  and that she HAD to date him to stop the pain I caused her. So I am very hesitant to believe that she cut loose with money on anyone... not sure I am sure she is done with him, but the comment that she HAD to date him... in the past I would have taken as BS, but now I think she actually felt like she had to be seeing someone/anyone rather than be alone.

I am so thankful I never married her, didn't have a house full of stuff to argue or contend with and no kids with her.

clearmind>

I have given up trying to reconcile, believe me.

I tried for 2 weeks after we split up and when she cut me off and changed her number- I gave up.

It became about retrieving my stuff after this. I was astonished at my ex's behaviour.

I understood she didn't want to get back together etc and discuss the relationship- but to not even return my stuff was pathetic.

I have given up trying to get it back or find out what happened to the rest of it. I backed off right after her flatmate told me she wants me out of her life.

I haven't contacted my ex for 3 months.

But I still wonder what happened to my ring. I'm still upset that it's lost and she won't tell me what happened to it.

It's very cruel.  And feels like she is punishing me so bad and acting like the one who got dumped.

My family tell me to let it go and that she's "spoilt"  lol. My friends tell me my ex is crazy and unstable and to stay away.

I WISH I could turn the police on to her.

Its wrong, its theft, its illegal and you COULD turn the police on her. I would not let them get away with it. She doesnt deserve and is not entitled to your ring!

Life should be fair - however it is not always!

D82, how can you let this go emotionally? This will hold you down and stop you from detaching.

But her best friend says she doesn't have it... .  

He told me "All she has is your HAIR DRYER!   I can return your hair dryer if you want"

That's what he offered.

But I said "I don't really care about the hair dryer... .   I am missing my ring, watch... .  "

I wasn't getting through to this friend at all... he kept talking over me.

And I asked if he could please get my ex to call me so i can explain exactly what I'm missing.

And that's when he screamed down the phone:

 "She DOESN'T WANT TO TALK TO YOU. YOU'LL NEVER GET CLOSURE FROM HER! MOVE ON! YOU HAVE NOT STOPPED CONTACTING HER FOR MONTHS. IT'S UNACCEPTABLE!"  and

"IT'S BIZARRE! SHE WANTS YOU OUT OF HER LIFE! DO NOT CONTACT HER AGAIN AND DO NOT CONTACT ME"

That's the kind of rubbish treatment I got... and for what? asking for my stuff. My ex obviously told her friend I was "harassing" her for no reason so he is playing protector.

Clearmind> I'm not sure.

I haven't attempted to contact her again after that crazy call from her friend. I'm scared

But I cannot seem to get over this behaviour. And want to hear other people's experiences of trying to get their stuff back

I'm sorry you're scared Diana, I know this feeling well. I'm glad to see you talk about how you feel.


I remember how this feels, I felt this way with my ex too. What I figured out was I was angry that she wouldn't do what I wanted. Of course you want your stuff back, anyone would. You said yourself your family, I'm assuming your mother too, has told you it's ok to let it go. How can you get to a point to let it go? It's a conscious decision.


This is only going to keep this anger and fear inside of you going. What may be more helpful in the long run is to accept this situation is the way it is and it's likely not going to change. I'm sorry, I know how hard this is to do. We've all been in your shoes.

Thanks Suzn. I know...

Today I just felt really down about my ring.

I saw someone's ring that was from their Mother today and was reminded of the fact I don't have mine anymore. And don't know where it could be.

I mean it could be possible that I lost it by the way. But I was always leaving jewellery at my ex's place... and my watch!

The fact that she knows how special this  ring was to me... she could have at least just dropped me a one liner saying "sorry you can't find your ring but it's definitely not at my place... .  "

She must think silence tells me the answer.

I suppose I shouldn't have expected her to correspond with me if she had already changed her number

I think her best friend looked at my behaviour (trying to get my stuff back) as a way of forcing my ex to talk to me... or that I was persisting because I wanted closure

hence why he said "she DOESN'T WANT TO TALK TO YOU! YOU'LL NEVER GET CLOSURE".

That can hurt.  I know.  My ex stole a painting done by my step-father that hung over my moms bed for many years and sold it (mom and step-father are both deceased).  He will never admit to it, nor do I care to address it with him.  I let it go as it is not worth the effort.  It's a material item that I no longer have, however, I have the memories of my mom and I have peace having ended what was a very dysfunctional relationship with my ex.

I kicked my ex BPD out of my house when she threw a remote control at my wall and tore a $2000 oil painting. Of couse, I felt bad, and I moved to my brother's and let her stay at my house while she was looknig for a place to live. On a Friday she called me and asked if I would meet her at the house Sunday to help her pack and move. I said yes, no problem. She asked me not to come by in the meantime because it was too hard for her. At midnight that same night she called me; she said she felt guilty and needed to tell me that she had movers come that night. I went to my house. EMPTY. She left me my master bedroom furniture and my TV and some other personal stuff. When I called her she said she took what she needed to furnish her new apartment; she asked me "did you expect me not to have a bed? I cant afford to buy new furniture." So - she stole it. I guess that makes sense? Now I have to rebuy it?

she also kept the ring. $20K. gone.

I did not take her to court because she is dangerous and liar and I figured paying $50k to get her out of my life was better than ending up in jail or dead, or worst of all, married to her with children.

Funniest part was when I contacted her father and mother; their response was that she was no longer their responsibility and that if I felt I needed to contact the police that I should go ahead and do it. Now I see how she ended up how she did.

toliveistofly, there comes a time when adults need to be adults - her parents likely did the right thing here - although it may not have been the answer/solution you were after!

Either way it's a loss, right? It's disappointing for you, it would be for anyone. I get it. You saw something today that triggered this loss and that disappointment again. This happens with all of us. It will get easier over time.


She could have, and it would have been nice of her. It wouldn't have taken away the loss though would it?




I'd like to challenge you to stay with your emotions for a while. We can guess what she's thinking or feeling all day long but you can only truly know how you're feeling. How you're feeling, now, is what matters. This is what helped me detach and eventually I got that closure.

Giving away too much to someone because they hint they like nice stuff is On YOU. I've hinted, geesh, I've directly asked for nice things... .  usually I don't get them! If you give me nice stuff, that's your decision, for  YOUR own reasons.

If I think I lost a precious ring, but I'm not sure really if I lost it or she lost it or where it is even... .  that's  my problem. My ring, my sentimental value... .  then I'd better keep track of where it is!  If I fail to keep track of my own precious items... .  that's on me! That's not my ex's problem!

If you know a person has special items of value that belong to you at their residence, and they won't cooperate in returning them, call the cops or an attorney.  Take the reins and go after it legally and safely. If there's a million reasons why you can't or won't  do that... .  

Then accept that the items are gone, consider it a life lesson and move on.


And yea, I agree with Clearmind 100 percent, the parents of the grifter who stole your furniture after letting her BACK in after she already showed you how unstable she is... .  have every right to say she's not their responsibility anymore, and to call the police if you have a beef with her.  You betcha! What are they going to do? Ground her?

Folks, we chose to be entangled with these people. These were your boyfriends/girlfriends.   Yes we've all been through similar experiences but at some point you got start accepting there were two people, not just one, in the relationship. At some point you gotta start looking in the mirror.

Shipwrecks, hurricanes, earthquakes, BPD relationships... .  Destruction.

Many people on the Titanic - those who escaped with their lives - lost rings and watches. Chalk em up to this natural disaster and get your life back.

I forgot to add- I did call the police a couple of months ago about this.

She was ignoring me for almost 2 months and I'd sent emails to her work and her personal email. Obviously I couldn't call her as she changed her number.

I asked the police what my options were and they said it is theft to withhold stuff like that. They also said that I do have the right to try ringing on her bell if she continues to ignore me. They said I would not get a restraining order (I was worried) because SHE is withholding stuff.

So i did go to her apartment. But nobody answered the doorbell.

That's when I had to ask her friend flatmate! I didn't want to resort to that... .  but I was polite in my correspondence.

I never expected him to bark at me the way he did. I even asked him "it feels like I am missing something here! Did she tell you I cheated on her or something? This is crazy! I was her partner for 3 years! I just wanted my stuff back!"

And that's when he told me that I am the 'bizarre' one who had been acting in an unacceptable way and that I will never get closure from my ex.

You guys are absolutely right; I shouldn't have expected anything from her parents and I shouldn't have let her back into my house. She was young and I think her family would have intervened if they actually believed me; they actually thought it was funny. Anyway, yeah, I could have sent her to jail or taken her to court, but I didn't, because I still cared about her and because I was afraid of her.

But I have been in a lot of rs and nothing like this has ever happened. We always peacefully (and sometimes even graciously) split our shared belongings. So yes, if something like this happens again, I will blame myself completely. In this first instance of pure insanity I am going to give myself a break and say I couldn't have known any better.

Fool me once, right.

Maybeso> yes, you have a point. It IS my responsibility to look after my things.

However, I was always staying at her apartment... we were partners.  Of course I am going to leave stuff there by accident or intended.

When she dumped me... I wasn't even thinking about my stuff... I was that devastated. I didn't even think to say 'Ok fine... .  now, about my stuff... .  "

It crossed my mind later on. It was part of the bits and pieces I needed to tidy up after being brutally dumped.

And I actually thought she would have cooled down by the time I did contact her about my stuff!

Rather than going with the full-blown attorney, if you know she has stuff, could you take her to small claims court? Here it costs like $30 to file.

I will admit right here, I was the crazy one when it came to returning stuff. Other people in other threads have said "just walk away from it all! What's $XXX worth of stuff?"  My ex didn't want his own stuff back and just wanted to walk away (dude, at least pick up your MAIL, or give the post office a change of address).  And he didn't necessarily hold my stuff hostage, he just dumped me and wanted no contact with me. Literally overnight. No, really. I left his house in my pajamas, happy as a clam, thinking I would see him again. Surprise! Threats of a R/O, and the next time I saw him was 6 months later in court.

So, since we had to go to court anyway, I wrote in there "I WANT MY STUFF BACK". Total belongings were like $75. I wanted my dress back. I wanted my dam underwear back. I wanted my cell phone charger back, and the dog-eared paperback that I had only gotten halfway through. That kind of stuff. All and all, it fit in two Walmart bags.

Was it worth it? For me, yes. I was tired of him getting away with everything. I was tired of him having 100% control, on a whim, on what our dating/marital status was. I was tired of the random threats of a R/O. I was tired of him having ZERO responsibility. I mean, let's face it, he was a jerk as a BF and husband. But take responsibility for the consequences. You want me out of your life? Fine. But GIMME BACK MY SHOES.

Those were really cute shoes, too, btw. Worth it. :) 

But to be totally fair, if the judge wouldn't have ruled that I got it back, I would have looked like a total pathetic boob. That's the risk.

Hi Diana, Im really sorry I Can tell this is bothering you. I know what its like lose sentimental things. When those things are lost due to basically a theft from our loved ones, thats especially difficult! Im not sure what you legal recourse is if your not sure shes intentionally witholding it. But, i totally understand when they break with us the way they do we are in shock! Literally walking zombies. The last thing were thinking is where's my stuff? I dont find it irresponsible of you that you may have left a piece of jewlery at you long term girlfriends house. Afterall you didnt know she was going to break up and then steal your stuff! The cops told you its theft and it is.Theres nothing wrong with wanting your stuff back, and you have every right to get it back. If she is intentionally holding it as some other posters said in a court of law she would be ordered to return or face a penalty. She would also most likely be forced to pay for your attorney you had to obtain to get your stuff back. Also, many times its setteled before you ever go to court because when they get the notice their being sued, suddenly they can find your stuff!  Not all of us are up for the fight or find their stuff worth fighting over. Its up to YOU! I can only say that if it was me and i knew i could get it back by legal force i would. If i knew i could not then id let it go.

Mauser> Haha I had to laugh about your shoe comment  :)

If my ex has lost my ring and watch etc I don't know what an attorney will do

Well an attorney would charge you for his services and it may be for nothing. She may have lost it or you may have lost it... .  

Bottom line, it would be an ordeal to go through all involved and could leave you feeling hurt and raw all over again. Is it really worth that to you?  

Or you could use this as a practice in letting go and you looking out for your own well being. Which would be better for you?    

This is definitely my favorite BPD topic.

I'm with Clearmind in that you are completely not even close to being on their radar screen when you're not around so this could be a major contributor to this behavior.  There may also be some trophy keeping elements to it, or, maybe, they just get hyper-triggered by the stress of returning property and find it easier to not do it.  No matter what, it's just an excuse on their part.  Property should be returned, ideally. 

Of course, you have to accept you are dealing with a disordered individual who does not think as we do.  One year ago I was consumed with the fact my property had not been returned.  I accepted some good advice from this board and wrote it off as lost forever.  Once I did that, my negative feelings about it went away for the most part.  I will admit that even though I am completely clear of her emotionally I will occasionally get a little bent about not getting my property back from her.  Even that is getting better though as I know it is long GONE.

Unless it has enough financial value to warrant bringing in an attorney or the stresses of going to court, you should just write it off as tuition in the school of life.  However, it is not right, but what can we expect from what are probably some of the most self-centered inhabitants of this planet.

Is just stuff if lost thousands of dollars to my exBPD she actually stole my tablet and lied to about it for months until i confronted her one night  ... i guess they feel justified in some way just let the material go who knows why they reason in their mind the things they do they think there right in some sense well at least in the case of my ex

Don't you guys have issues knowing you have personal stuff which REMINDS you of your mental pwBPD? 

There will always be things that remind us of our exs. Issues with it? Not after fully detaching and that takes time. I have a few pictures and Im glad I do. It reminds me of the beginning of this recovery process that was needed long before I met my ex. 

I agree with Suzn. I have personal things of my ex's too. It no longer has any impact on me.

While the thought of wiping away every trace of them seems appealing - real detachment is about your mind/feelings not possessions.

It DID bother me. It doesn't now. Some of it I just recently unearthed, and some things I held onto for dear life because I needed that constant reminder of him when he vanished (NO, I don't have BPD, thank you very much). Kind of like a remembrance of the dead.

I have a whole box of things that remind me of him. Very few things that were his belongings (a couple of shirts, a tie, etc) but a lot of his gifts, cards, concert tickets, etc.  I haven't had the strength to destroy them, but I don't have them around. They are in a box far in the back of the closet ... .  to the left, to the left... .  

It bothered me because I AM just that kind of person who wants everything to be totally fair and do "the right thing". It bothered me he would just walk away from it and if I offered it to him, he'd say "no, that's okay, it's just not important".  Now, I'm okay. I did my part. My side of the sidewalk is clean.

Mauser>

I'm similar... I believe in being decent and fair. It's decent to exchange each other's stuff after a break up. To put aside anger/hurt and just be adults. It's decent to not ignore someone when they try to reach out to you in a polite way.

It's indecent to ignore someone for months after they go to such trouble to even email you at work. I even told my ex I do not wish to reconcile anymore- I just want my things returned.

But the silence was deafening.

I guess if she wanted to infuriate me it worked.

I also found it really insulting that she dumped 3 books of mine in plastic on my sidewalk. No note or anything.

Anyone could have just thrown them away or trodden on them. She couldn't even put them in my letterbox or even inside my gate!

Unless she got someone else to do it for her...

Diana, yes its insulting I agree. You are also hurting I get that.

There comes a time when the resentment, anger and bitterness subsides - time is part of the solution and changing your thinking is the other biggie. You may resent the fact she 'dumped' your stuff or that it may have been someone else who 'dumped' it there on her behalf - all true! - then what - can you change it now?

How can you change your thinking so you can move past the resentment. Resentment causes ulcers - and its really not helping you detach.

Again its not about the stuff - what is really bothering you?

We also have to be mindful of where to draw the line with our resentment. Do you feel like you need validation for how you are feeling? Maybe a hard question however your thinking is concerning me.

Yes, your ex behaved badly. You are obviously hoping to re-engage her in a conversation under the pretense of needing an explanation about your stuff. You don't even know for certain if she has it. You have been told both directly and indirectly that she does not.

She may be keeping those things as momentos of you. Just like a serial killer might keep momentos of each victim. Does that make you feel better about it?

You are stuck. Your BPDex is mentally ill, so she will not behave like a "normal adult" as she is not one. You, on the other hand need to get whatever therapy it takes to get unstuck, or this will eat you alive. Think about it, you are demanding that a mentally ill child in an adult's body behave like a normal adult. It is not going to happen.

This may seem harsh, but tell the truth. Is what is really going on about the stuff or is it that you are hurt, lonely, and angry? I am too, but if I stay stuck my son will be stuck in BPD hell with his BPD mother.

Your ex... .  Your stuff... .  Yourself.

Which of those is most important?

Which one are you focused on?

How can that change for the better?

What, deep down, helps keep this churning?

Seriously. What's that about?

In plastic? That is almost considerate. I would bet it was not done by your BPDex.

No note or anything? Aha! This is about re-engagement, isn't it?

Or at least some type of validation/acknowledgement that you are a human being. She may not have the simple human decency to give you that. You will have to get it here. I don't even know you, but I can feel your pain. It oozes out of your posts. I have been there. You can get unstuck. You deserve better--your feelings DO matter!

Yes I'm hurt. I'm in pain daily and seeing a Therapist again in two weeks time...

I switch between being crazy angry and bitter at my ex... .  to feeling sad and lost.

But the main feeling I have is disbelief at how childhish she has been.  And my poor judgement. Thinking that she was a decent person.

I have dated really average people before... .  my other ex was a liar who went behind my back and went on job interviews for an overseas position.

But my recent exBPD I thought was different. I trusted her stories of abuse...

I genuinely thought she had been a poor victim all her life.

The one thing that attracted me to her on the first date was her openness and honesty. She didn't seem to 'hide anything' like the other ex did.

She was always talking about doing the decent thing... telling me how so many are not 'decent' and respectful and that she is. Yet she has proven to be the most indecent one I've ever dated.

It feels like I am gullible... that I have poor judgement.

My own sister was able to pick up months earlier that my exBPD always looked insecure in public. My sister said she had noticed my ex looked uncomfortable and like she had 'safety issues'.

And sure enough when my sister pointed it out... I saw it.



And 3 weeks before we split up, I was in a casual pub with my ex and sitting next to her talking. I was being silly and leaned into her trying to stare her in the eyes and she FREAKED out and moved away from me.

It was so weird. And she told me that her ex (the one she claimed had almost raped her) was always forcing PDA on her and she didn't like it.

She tells me this 3 years into our relationship. Again... brand new info. And baggage.

This lead me to feel I didn't understand her at all by this stage. Because other times she was all over me in public and didn't mind me being silly.

However- I still feel that other people may have not been so gullible with her victim stories and perhaps would have had better judgement. They may have seen that she is 'off' a lot earlier than me and this behaviour ie silence and not returning my stuff wouldn't have been a surprise.

Even my sister says "It doesn't surprise me. It's consistent with her drama queen ways. If anyone else changed their number like that I'd think they were crazy... but I'm not surprised she did. And I'm not surprised she's not talking to you and playing the victim. This is who she is"

I want to know how to better read people early on

bentnotbroken>

Sorry I meant the books were in a plastic bag on my sidewalk near my gate. But I wouldn't leave her stuff on the sidewalk if she lived in a house!

I would open the gate and put it inside the gate (unless she couldn't open my gate or was too scared to come that close).

In my email to my ex I asked her what I should do with HER stuff as well. I had her jacket, books, phD files. And she lives in a flat so I could hardly just dump it outside the flat. (maybe I should have).

And she didn't respond about that and drops less than half of the stuff I wanted back on my sidewalk without even responding to my emails.

I remember asking my dad about what to do next. He said to send a polite email saying "Thanks but I'm still missing ... .    can you please return these too"

So i did.  And because she was doing the whole 'silence' thing... I didn't hear back nor did I get anymore of my stuff back.

How hard would it have been to have said a simple one liner 'sorry, I actually don't have that stuff... not sure where it is... "

by not responding... it made me continue to ask her about it... it made me angry... and it made me wind up going to her house.

Felt like a set up to make me look like the crazy one

D82, you are fixated on what she does, doesn't do, didn't do and you go around around in circles. I see it in your posts. I do feel for you trust me.

There comes a time where we need to be conscious of what we are doing to ourselves by ruminating about the intricacies of it all. We cannot pick it apart using a needle! Your ex has the emotional capability of a 3 year old! Watched any 3 year olds lately. Our expectations of our ex's are high considering their emotional maturity age.

You need validation that you are not crazy, you may need validation that what you experienced is what really happened. Breathe! You may lack trust - trust in yourself. Do you see this is about you my friend not her. You did experience all these things and you may not quite believe it yet - but - you needed to be loved for whatever reason... we all needed to be loved. We needed it so bad we put a blindfold on!

Real love takes time, it takes a great deal of inquiry... of yourself and your emotions/feelings and of the other person. Its takes some thought and asking the hard questions about whether this person in front of me is right for me - this is real mature adult love.

Diana82 - while we are on this topic of you and your relationship - are you able to dig a little deeper with your posts and really think about your own background, the expectations brought on you as a child, your parents relationship style and how that may have impacted you today, your anger is imbedded in your past and your ex reiginited it like a torch - she came along for a very good reason - to teach you about you!

Are you able to commit, for own sake, to posts related more towards deconstructing your childhood and your family of origin (your parents)? The personal inventory board is great for that - and other more senior members can help you. If you do post there I will pop on over!

We need to turn off the 'ex' switch sometimes and see how we arrived at this place to start with. Your healing is not my friend imbedded in whether she kept your stuff or not! Food for thought and the choice at this stage is yours - sometimes we get comfortable on L3 and forget that this is also about our role!

Be kind to you  Your healing is in your hands.

Yes! It was probably a set up. My ex is still trying to do stuff like that to make me look like the "crazy one" to get primary custody of our son. It is a common BPD tactic.

The reality of BPD is that they have no core sense of self. "Who" they are is constantly in flux--always changing based on how they feel at a given moment. When they are falling apart in a relationship, they go into victim mode, just like a small child. They "feel" they are a victim, so they start looking for facts to support how they feel. If they can't readily find any, they will twist or fabricate some facts to support their feelings.

When a person points out the inconsistency, they go into attack mode toward the person that can expose them, with a cover of victim to suck other people in. Think about it for a moment, when your BPD ex told you she was a victim of horrible abuse, did you immediately feel sorry for her? Did you immediately trust her? Who would lie about such a thing? She stripped away your instinctual defenses very easily with a few convincincly delivered lies that she truly "felt" at the time. You were sucked right in, because it hit you at a very primal, emotional level. Your empathy kicked in for the "violated child" that was sitting right there in front of you. Unfortunately for us, our emotions overrode our good judgement.

I have known a few people that are genuine adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. (Non-BPD) They tend not to disclose in the manner that BPDs do. They don't disclose deep secrets right away. I firmly believe that many BPDs do believe that they were abused as children, however due to the reality distortions that take place in a BPDs mind, the stories of abuse are greatly exaggerated if not outright fabrications. They can't help it, they are mentally ill. To them the "memories" feel real, so they act as if they are real.

There is a TED talk on domestic violence on one of the other threads, or you can google for TED "Crazy Love". Pay attention to the first part where she describes how abusers hook their victims. If you connect the dots, you will see that pwBPD are not victims, they are abusers.

Hi Diana,

Just wanted to say that ou being angry and sad and wanting to understand is normal. There are stages to grieving and we all go through them. Its important not to rush through to the 'get over it' and ' move on' stage before your ready to do that. Dont rush your process because your family or other say its time. If your angry, resentful, sad. Its fine. You need to process these feelings to. Your only 4-5 months out right? It seems invalidating to me to hear your family andbfriends telling you, you should not be feeling the way you areand thatbyou should move on now. You WILL get to this point on your own. I promise you will. But everyones different in how they proccess and how long itbtakes to getbthrough the stages. Were here to support you in your current state and not to rush youb hrough to where we think you should be. Take care.

Heres my version of not returning my stuff. I had left a few things behind after I moved out and he stated to me. Leave it here so you have a reason to keep coming back. Thats exactly what it is, a reason to keep you in their life. Even after I moved out and we tried to work things out, I had left a pair of glasses there. I went through the most ridiculous stuff trying to get my glasses back. I told him to put them in his mailbox and I would swing by and grab them. No, that was not good enough. He put them in his truck and told me I had to come to his work and get them. Just another ploy to see me again. Finally, I asked his daughter to please take them out of his truck and I got them from her. Its their way of holding on to some connection with you.

Come to think of it, mine kept something of mine as well. He actually took it out of my possession and said, you can leave this here... .  and i was like... .  huh? Why do u want me to leave this here? But i just left it with him. It wasnt of any value to me. I forgot about it. He started pushing me away after that. So, many stories of them keeping stuff! Must be for some left over connection or to keep you coming back. Or to try to drive u crazy and call you a stalker when u try to get it back.

I think it is both. My ex insisted that she wanted me & my stuff out, but she made it extremely difficult to get my property. She also kept quite a few things. I finally just gave up trying to retrieve them, because she kept claiming I was harassing her after she told me to come by and get the stuff. A couple of go-arounds of that were enough for me. I wrote it off as a loss.

She can keep the mementos of me, I couldn't care less. I want my son safely out of her reach.

Today I saw my ex's car parked outside her flat (main road).

Her place is literally around the corner from mine and I thought she moved. Because I never saw her for 5.5 months... .  anywhere around here. Not in the supermarket... not in cafes etc and she used to frequent them all the time.

It feels so sickening to think she lives around the corner! AND she is not talking to me at all.

It just felt so weird today seeing her car. Knowing she's right there... still...

And won't return the rest of my stuff nor tell me where it's gone/if it's lost...

I wonder if I will run into her in the shops soon... then what! do I ask her about my stuff or give her the cold shoulder? 

hmm I don't know if my ex is witholding the stuff...

I actually think she lost it or just doesn't have it.

My issue is that she didn't even ADVISE me what happened to the rest of the stuff.

0 respect. 0 courtesy.

I had to cop an aggressive phone call from her friend telling me he will drop off my 'hair dryer' and my ex is refusing to talk to me etc.

It's just so bizarre to  then see that she's still living around the corner from me. Still existing... and completely ignoring me. Doesn't she ever think she may run into me? we shop at the same gourmet food shops... supermarket... etc.

She was so scared to run into other women she cut off whom she accused of 'stalking' her.

I almost want to now run into her to see what she will do

Run into her would be a great occasion to ask about your stuff. And it would be a great occasion to practice detachment. You are both in a small town, so you cannot avoid to meet someday... .  

I am sorry I haven't read the whole thread so my apologies if my response may be somewhat off or if I am repeating what somebody else has already written.

When my pwBPD left dumped me 2 years ago he refused to return my stuff. He refused any contact at all. Others told me to let it go and move on and I was being made to feel that demanding my things from him was just a way for me to hold onto the r/s. It was to begin with but then it became about me, my self respect and refusal to be treated that way. I didn't want for him to control whether I got my things or not. It may seem contradictory but I felt I didn't want him to have anything of me as it represented the control he had had over me in the r/s. And I knew it was way for him to still keep some bond to me, conscious or sub-conscious. It's not as easy as saying that us nons wanting to have our things back from our BPDxs mean we refuse to let go and is a way for us to hang on. Sometimes it can be a way to get our freedom back. It can be instrumental in being able to let go. Only we can know what it represents for us.

Wow I can't imagine what she would do if she saw me!

This is a woman who changed her number. Who is acting like she is "scared" of me and had ignored me for 5.5 months.

She'd probably run

If I saw her if have A LOT to say!

Who the hell do you think u are?

How dare you not return my stuff and get your friend to abuse me on phone!

Why did u change your number?

Why did you say I am crazy and harassing?

Do you have no shame?

How do you sleep at night?

What it is about ? CONTROL , REVENGE . And it works  Please try to move forward without ever having justice met. Your BPD or NPD is not worth spending more energy on, although sadly so many of us continue to do exactly that :'( :'( :'(

Mitti> I do wonder if my ex thought me pushing for my stuff was me forcing her to "talk" to me.

My parents even asked me "is this really about the stuff or you trying to talk to her?"

I think I was stunned that she wouldn't even say two words to me about my stuff. I understood she was upset... She didn't want to take me back. She ignored my apologies.

But I guess I was trying to force her to speak to me about my stuff and she didn't budge.

Like a game of punishment.

My mum has even said she'll buy me a new ring. I bought new clothes.

It's more the principle now and the indecency . It's disgraceful

I believe one of the reasons this non-returning of belongings seems so common when breaking up with a pwBPD, is about keeping some bond, sub-consciously, and control on a conscious level. They also need that fight to keep going to prevent guilt from overwhelming them. At least I know this is the case with my pwBPD. For us nons I think the need for having our stuff back, apart from the obvious one, that it may be valuable or we need it, is partly to keep a bond also or have our freedom and our control back.

Yes, it may be that she is wanting to punish you. My bf often punishes me when things get too tricky for him and he is rationalizes in his head that I am too blame and therefore he has the right or need to teach me a lesson. It can be anything so long as it means doing what I don't want or not doing what I want.

To use withheld belongings as a means to be able to talk to them doesn't ever seem to work though. Us continuing to fight them for it seems to only have one of two possible outcomes - we either get our stuff or we don't get it, but it will never lead to re-conciliation, because forcing a pwBPD to do what they don't want never does.

Going back to bentnotbroken's comment:

Think about it for a moment, when your BPD ex told you she was a victim of horrible abuse, did you immediately feel sorry for her? Did you immediately trust her? Who would lie about such a thing? She stripped away your instinctual defenses very easily with a few convincincly delivered lies that she truly "felt" at the time. You were sucked right in, because it hit you at a very primal, emotional level. Your empathy kicked in for the "violated child" that was sitting right there in front of you. Unfortunately for us, our emotions overrode our good judgement.

I have known a few people that are genuine adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. (Non-BPD) They tend not to disclose in the manner that BPDs do. They don't disclose deep secrets right away. I firmly believe that many BPDs do believe that they were abused as children, however due to the reality distortions that take place in a BPDs mind, the stories of abuse are greatly exaggerated if not outright fabrications. They can't help it, they are mentally ill. To them the "memories" feel real, so they act as if they are real.


... .  This is interesting. Yes, as soon as my ex opened up to me in the first 3 weeks of dating I felt sorry for her. I was stunned at her stories too... I've dated some shockers but hers topped it off...

She told me "my first ex was completely frigid... never wanted to sleep with me.  She was cold and distant... shed make me feel really unattractive and unloved. She would even leave my bedside to go and masturbate in the bathroom!  We had to go to couples counselling. Then she dumped me over text message one day saying the only reason she was "frigid" was because she was thinking of another woman the whole time! And this was over text!  I was depressed for days... couldn't get out of bed"

Then she told me about the second woman she started seeing who lived interstate and she told me "she was an emotional bully/abusive. She used to tell me she saw me as a child and felt too " maternal" with me. She would degrade me physically and emotionally  and say I have no idea about sex and the female anatomy. She also told me she doesn't like " pale" women and I'm pale! She'd intimidate me... bully me... .  "

Then she told me about a woman she briefly dated who had tried to "grope" her in public all the time and she felt violated.

She shortly after told me I was the only woman who had made her orgasm. And that she was waiting for her "princess".

Of course I felt good at that point. I wanted to save her. But I still found it odd how much horrible stuff she had put up with. And odd how open she was about it so early on ... .  

So can you understand my confusion when my ex told me after an argument 2.7 years later (in reference to the same frigid ex) this... .  

Her: "my ex tried to force herself on me one day. She pushed me onto the bed and tried to rape me. But I won't go into details... I don't think you want to know"

Me: "whaat? Really? Tell me... Talk to me... "

Her: (started to cry a little) "I don't think you want to know (hesitating)... but she tried to force herself onto me and pushed me down. I didn't feel like sex for a long time after that. I also went to counselling"

Me: (a bit later) "so you went to couples counselling yes?"

Her: "no not couples counselling. I went alone"

I immediately felt sorry for her... and thought this is why her libido must be low... she has endured trauma!

I instantly forgot the argument (and how rude she was) and didn't even bother asking for an apology from her then- she had almost been raped! How could I think of the silly argument and myself right now! :/

But see how different the story was to the original one?

And part of our argument involved her snapping at me and not wanting sex for 3 weeks and being rude about it. I got snappy back and started to leave her house because she was so rude. Then she had a panic attack and out came that almost rape story

Diana, with all due respect:

It seems like she ended up with your stuff and you ended up with her stories.

What about You? How can You move on from this?

What's the story of your own life?

Is there more to it, and more to write, or just this chapter?

What has been working as far as your own healing? There have been many great suggestions offered for you. Information, support, advice... .  

How are you going to help yourself get over who/what/how she was, to better understand who/what/how YOU are, now? Plus: A better future for yourself, too?

What is it that you're really looking for? To understand... .  ?

Someone hurting you is horrible. I'm very sorry you've gone through that. It's in the past, though, and you have this chance to overcome it, grow from it, and live a healthier life. With better more 'real' friends than those who've wronged you before this.

There comes a time when letting go of something that has caused us harm, including someone we felt close with (even though in many ways we're 'comfortable' with it, being used to it), just has to happen or we decay more than grow. We can turn what they did to us against our own selves, perpetuating those pains and making them worse.

Please don't do that. Focus on what's best for You. Peace.

I'm interested to learn more about the 'quiet borderline' or the silent treatment some of us get when a BPD person dumps us.

My ex was always a very direct, assertive snappy type. So the silence has been out of character.

The inability to say one word to me about my stuff... doesn't seem like her. Perhaps two personalities going on here...

this is why it's weird.  If she had given me the silent treatment during the rship, i wouldn't think this is so strange. But she wasn't anything like that. I was the quieter one

Perhaps she is not responding to you because she is very done with the relationship, and is trying to detach, as you should be doing, too.

Understanding our ex's behavior is one thing - obsessing over it is not healthy.


Very wise words!  Time to let go, Diana, and start focusing on creating a new life without her.

I know obsession is unhealthy. I'm trying to work through this with my therapist.

But this distorted reality is interesting to me...

Sometimes it feels like my ex believed her distorted perceptions of reality. I can't believe she would have been that good an actress     And perhaps her stories and such do not fall under 'calculated deception'.

This is what I am thinking... I told my ex she was too inconsistent and implied she could be deceptive.

Perhaps BPDs are unaware of their own deception because they have such a distorted view of reality?  They do feel 'harassed' and they do feel 'threatened' by others. They may even think someone has abused them.  They genuinely believe people are out to hurt them or leave them...

So any suggestion that they are deceptive is seen as SO far fetched to them and insulting...  

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