BPDFamily.com

Long story short, ex and I went to court then ended up mediating 6 months ago. We have been on a 50% schedule that was every 2 days , and now it has switched to 4/3 - alternating weeks to make it even.

This morning my ex's  Mother (not him) informed me that we are going back to court and that my daughter being with me at my house is 'unacceptable'... .

Ex has been BREAKING his back in court trying to get at least 60% custody so he can  get child support. His family is obsessed with money and believes they are entitled .

So we will both be going for full custody.

I've got so many questions! Like which things can be used as leverage ? Can I use the fact he was abusive to me in front of the child?

Is there any chance of him actually winning?

Focus on his behaviors.  You can ask that both of you be tested--Matt has written extensively on the best test to request that is difficult for a disordered person to fool.  You can also ask for hair follicle drug testing--again you cannot "do" anything to the hair follicle to cheat.

Does he associate with any unsavory people?  If so document--most counties have records available on-line.  In my son's case all of her friends had arrest records.  We were able through our county's jail records and criminal court records prove this.  Of course his ex's arrest and court records (felony drugs) were also included. 

The better you can document the bad behavior (recordings, criminal records, etc.), the better advantage you have in a he said, she said scenario.   

Do you know of any of his "hot" buttons?  Things your attorney could ask him while he is on the stand that could cause him to let the mask slip? 

Great suggestions Catnap!

As far as the hot buttons- I'll have to think about that one.  I already bet he is going to walk into court with a HUGE sense of entitlement , just like last time. He had the nerve to say "I deserve more custody because I am an outstanding young gentleman" I wanted to   !

My key points I have so far against him are :

*His criminal record

*The fact he has withheld my daughters prescription medication from me while she was in my care

*His drinking and driving, improper car seat use and installation

* General unwillingness to co parent

Things I'm not sure are relevant :

*The fact his negative advocate parents only chose to be a part of the kid's life when we divorced



Also, I have an understanding that he has threatened me several times that he is bringing people into court to lie for him.

I wish you had gotten the incident with the "ride home" that turned into a near kidnapping on file as a police report. The fact that he involved your daughter in this would then be documented. Same with the mail interference.

You can't hesitate to get his actions documented.  They aren't going to play nice - you know that by now.

So to what you have... . how much time does your D spend under your care vs time under his care? Not his parents... . him. Is he employed? What is his employment history?

I agree that the strongest approach right now is to get psychological assessments and drug tests that he can't fake.

Also, regarding friends to testify, do you have anyone who could/would testify regarding g his driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs?

I might have people to testify to that. I've got one friend who could , if he doesn't have to work that day.

As far as his employment, he is actually employed at a private school right now. His employment history is mostly working as a cook, 2 jobs at a school, and in construction.

He works about 10 hours a day, and even when he is NOT working he still does other things all night while his parents watch the baby.

I don't have a report on the last incident, but i did file a report on the mail issue.

I would love to do the psychological assessment, but money is tight and I know if I order it , that I have to pay for it.

The drug test may be a waste, since he has already admitted in court to his drug history (criminal record proved it)

You are going to need to show the danger of his continued alcohol and drug use, not just what he admitted to in the past. He will just say he doesn't do that anymore. Otherwise it becomes he said/said situation.

Dang. That is going to be pretty hard to prove.

That's why you combine the history of his past arrests and convictions with your request for a psychological evaluate and drug tests. It may take a little while, but he will probably not be able to fool the evaluation or pass the tests for any extended period of time.

How helpful is it if  he DOES show to be a BPD on the evaluation?

You then have objective info to which the evaluators can speak to in recoonending which parent would provide the healthiest situation for the child.

But you still need to focus on which behaviors he exhibits that put your D at risk or are not as good a situation as you can provide. For example, if he works 10 hours at a stretch, what is the situationwhen you have her?

I've sat in court and listened to roughly 10 cases throughout the duration of my custody battle. I learned a lot from that, and it made me realize how much tactical stuff goes on in court. Is that something you can do? Go to your court and listen in to see how your judge rules, and what happens in cases that are similar to yours?

For example, if you agreed to 50/50 in mediation, then you'll have a much harder time proving that you should be awarded full custody -- you'll need to demonstrate a significant or substantial change between the time you consented to the last order, and the new motion to change custody. If you knew he had a criminal record prior to marrying him, or prior to getting pregnant, or prior to signing the order, the court will wonder why you suddenly find his criminal record to be a problem now.

Court is also less likely to believe any family members or friends. Better to get a third-party professional to testify. If you are friends with that third-party professional, it will come out in court, and they'll lose some of their credibility. So when your ex withholds medication, call your pediatrician and ask them what the consequences might be to your D's health if her father does not give her the medicine. Establish a record somehow with professionals who encounter you, your ex, and your D.

If he is partying, doing drugs, and drinking, and you are truly concerned, then you need to call the police to do a well-child check. Your concerns need to link directly to the welfare of your child. The court will want to know why, if you were so concerned, did you not call the police to check on your child. Even if you did, and the police did nothing, you can show that you were concerned enough to call law enforcement.

I saw a case where the ex husband wanted a DVPO. He said his ex wife threatened him, and had her bf follow him in his pickup truck. The judge wanted to know why the ex husband, if he was so scared of this guy, did he not call the police?

When you listen to these cases and hear what kinds of questions the court has for people, it helps you understand how they think. If you really, truly believe something, you need to show that your judgement and actions meet their criteria for credibility.

Awesome reply livednlearned! I appreciate that!

There has been a handful of him drunk driving (sometimes with the baby) in which I have been forced to call law enforcement. He always gets let go, or they don't find him. In a matter of fact, I just called again last night because he wouldn't let someone pick him up , and drove drunk once again.

Hopefully my judge can understand that I was only trying to be cooperative by going to mediation. I was also extremely intimidated by having my child withheld for 30 days.

Hope that doesn't break my case!

Anytime you agree to something, it makes it harder to argue the opposite. Going forward, never cooperate if you don't think it's best for your D. Those days are over.

One thing I realized sitting in court watching other people go through their day in hell: If you both make bad decisions, and you both have bad judgment, it's even. Meaning, maybe he does drugs and rages at her, but if she threatens him and/or makes bad choices, then what can the court possibly do for them?

Also, your ex in-laws might be blowing smoke. Don't let them rent space in your head. If it's hard for you to get a change in custody, it will be just as hard for them. Trying to change custody so soon after it was granted is a red flag. He needs to demonstrate that you've become a risk to your child.

Good points

Are you sure that's true?

Where I live, the cost is usually split.  I had to pay initially, but got back half in the settlement.  If one party has more cash on hand, that's probably who will have to pay up front, or the court might order both parties to pay half.

You don't "order" it, you file a motion and the judge may order it.

Could be a Custody Evaluation - ours cost $5,000 - I paid it all and got back $2,500 in the settlement.

Or maybe just psych evals - our MMPI-2 tests cost $500 each, and we each paid for our own.

Your lawyer should know how it works there.

I would certainly suggest objective testing if you it's possible - the only way to get any disorders out on the table so that can be an important factor in the case.  If you can connect his diagnosis with dysfunctional behavior, the picture will be very clear.  Then you can add scholarly research which shows the long-term impact of a parent's psychological disorder on the kids - much higher risk of addiction, depression, and lots of other problems - to show that is riskier to put the kids with the disordered parent.

Yes, I am sure. I would love to do it, but right now there isn't even money to pay my lawyer, so I'm going to be at a huge advantage all around

In my state, if one party has more access to cash, you can file a motion, so that party has to pay your legal costs, pending the settlement.  Or your attorney can just wait to be paid out of the settlement.

It's a basic principle of the law* that one party can't be put at a disadvantage because they have less money, at least in a custody case.  Talk to your lawyer and find out your options;  if he doesn't offer you any options, talk to a different lawyer.

* I'm not an attorney, and nobody here can give you legal advice.  Just saying how it works where I live.

It may be possible to ask that both parties be randomly tested from now til the case is decided.  A pain in the neck for both of you but maybe important.

If he is an alcoholic, it's likely he'll fail the test sooner or later.  Make sure it's a blood test or urine, not a breathalyzer.

I think in court if I don't have a lawyer ,and my ex does, his lawyer may not be allowed to represent him.

I've never heard of that.  I've always heard that if one party doesn't have an attorney, they represent themselves, but the other party can have an attorney.

Maybe things are very different where you are, but I would suggest poking around and asking a lot of questions - maybe somebody at the courthouse could tell you how it works there, or you can talk to some attorneys - don't sign one up til you're sure - let them know about the $ imbalance and see what they suggest.  In my state, you will not be put at the disadvantage of not having an attorney just because the other party has physical control of the money.

This doesn't sound right, especially for custody cases.

Sometimes, in a criminal case, a defendant will show up without a lawyer, and the judge will continue the case until the defendant obtains representation or can get a public defender appointed.

Yours is not a criminal case -- it's a Family Court proceeding.  You will need representation, and if the ex's parents are threatening that there will be another custody motion, you need to do your research now.

Ask your DV counselor what options they suggest.  Talk to the county Legal Aid and ask them for options or recommendations.

Do NOT sit and wait for something to be done to you.  You could be very unpleasantly surprised if you walk into court thinking that the judge isn't going to allow the other side to have a lawyer!

I know for mediation , if one person has a lawyer , and the other doesn't , that persons lawyer is not allowed in the room. So I thought it may be the same in court.

The facts are on your side.

It's the anticipation that is scary, and the unknowns.

This man is a menace.  (So's his mom.)

Mediation and court are different.

I've never heard of a judge not allowing one of the parties to be represented by an attorney in court.

His lawyer is dishonest, and aggressive. Since I won't have my lawyer court may be a disaster now.

Not necesarily.  If I recall the judge gave you somewhat favorable terms when you eventually got into court, going from 0% on ex's ex parte motion to 50%, though supervised until you mediated.  The judge will treat you fairly, and perhaps give you a bit of subtle assistance now and then if you represent yourself (as in, "Ms MO1YO, are you going to object to that question?" but not having a lawyer will most likely be a disadvantage.  Not that you get discouraged or give up, just that it's a higher level of care and caution needed.

(In any case, request for him to pay your legal fees.  The fact that your financial resources are limited may make your case better for reimbursement, maybe.  You may not get it, but at some point, after the umpteenth trip to court, you might.)

States have different rules for mediation than for court.  Some allow lawyers in mediation, some don't.  Mine doesn't.  Some states allow mediators to report to the court about mediation, others are more like a black box and only allow reporting of what was settled.


His lawyer is not there to be fair, he's out to get a win for his client.  That's just the way the adversarial concept works.  Hopefully the judge is the one to prevent things from getting too far out of hand.

I'm not too overly excited about my judge.

I may be able to look in free legal representation but I've noticed they are hard to come by. My sister tried to get one and it didn't work out .

Do not allow yourself to be put into an unfair situation.  Take action to find out what your options are.

If you find yourself in court, facing an attorney but without your own attorney, say loudly and clearly, "I need time to find an attorney I can afford."  Make it very clear that you are not prepared to take part in court without proper representation.

I have never heard of anyone being denied the opportunity to be represented in a custody case, if they speak up.

I know mediation isn't an option this time, so I definitely will need to find  a lawyer .

If it takes a while to find one that you have confidence in, and to come up with the money, you can probably request a delay from the court.

I have no idea how I would ever pay for one, since any retainer is 3500 at the least. I only make 11$ an hour

Talk to someone at the court.

There may be free help available.

Or you may be able to ask the court to make the other party pay.

You are still married, so half the money is yours.  If the other party has possession of enough money for a lawyer, he probably has to give you enough for a lawyer too.

Talk to some lawyers who give a free initial consultation and find out what your options are.

I do not believe that you can't have a lawyer because of the cost, but the other party will have a lawyer.  That's not how it works where I live.

I'm actually legally divorced, and have never received alimony or child support.

By the way , I live in Florida.

Sorry, I didn't remember you're divorced already.  That may complicate things - the money isn't community property - but I still think you probably can claim that both parties should have attorneys and if you can't afford one he should pay for yours.

Some attorneys offer a free initial consultation.  In 30 minutes you can ask lots of questions and learn a lot.

I also may be able to get free representation from a friend who is a lawyer for child custody cases. It's a long shot, but it's worth a try.

Maybe at least some initial advice.

You can do a lot yourself, with an attorney's guidance.

Not the case where I live (Texas).  Son's exgf did not have a lawyer. . .she was asked several times by the Judge and our attorney if she wanted to delay the custody hearing until she could get counsel.  She refused, so the hearing proceeded. 

Can the DV folks suggest any attorneys you can talk to?

Good point:  the court should allow you to have an attorney, and maybe give you a delay if you need more time, but at some point the process will have to move forward.  You have to take responsibility for finding an attorney and figuring out how she will be paid.

This is my take on the situation also.  They won't delay forever.  You have to be responsible for your representation, whether it's by an attorney or on your own with good advisors.

Not having an attorney is a major disadvantage. Maybe we can help you brainstorm how to find someone, even though you're strapped for cash. Money is tight for all of us here, so you'll probably find that others have good ideas how to save on cost, what options are out there for people who don't make a lot.

I just saw inexperienced Ls in court, and saw my ex represent himself. It really makes a difference having someone represent you. Preferably someone competent, but even someone mediocre will be able to explain to you how the process works, and that's a lot right there.

Yeah, exactly.

I don't think it's wise to let even a good, experienced lawyer make the key decisions - this is your life and your child, and you'll have to live with the results, not the lawyer.  You should make all the key decisions based on your own beliefs and values.

But... . even an inexperienced attorney - as LnL says - should at least be able to explain the process and what options you have.  If you don't give the lawyer too much authority that could be a huge help.

So far the DV advocates stay away from child custody advice and recommending pro bono lawyers. There were a lot of other women in the group who are in my position now, and they strictly stay away from discussing child custody situations (huge disadvantage)

I am extremely strapped for cash, I only make 11$ an hour and have no savings.

OK, as LnL suggests, let's brainstorm possible ways that you might be able to get some help:

1.  Find out if there are free legal services available.  Maybe somebody at the courthouse can advise you about that.

2.  Find out if any local attorneys offer a free initial consultation.  Take as many of those as you can - talk with several attorneys and be prepared with questions so you learn as much as possible in that half hour or so.

3.  Find out if any attorneys will take your case on the basis of being paid out of the settlement.  You'll have to share enough information with them so they can estimate the settlement amount and decide if they're willing to live with that.

4.  Find out if the other party might be obligated to pay your legal fees.

Other ideas anybody?

I am going to use all 4 of those ideas. Thanks for the suggestions!

Can you get support through a Domestic Violence centre? I know that some of the centres in Australia have lawyers who volunteer their time. They give advice, help you plan strategies and are completely across the games that the other party plays, and how to best equip yourself against them. It might be worth checking to see if you have a similar service available to you too

I have been attending DV classes and group therapy for about 3 or 4 months. Unfortunately, they do not have any assistance in helping me find a lawyer. Regardless, going to the classes really helps me and clears my mind.

Brainstorming. . .

Florida Legal Services, Inc. (FLS) is a nonprofit organization founded in 1973.  State-wide program.

www.floridalegal.org/

Legal Aid in Florida Pamphlet

www.floridabar.org/tfb/TFBConsum.nsf/840090c16eedaf0085256b61000928dc/a949d517a480a5a685256b2f006c5c77?OpenDocument

(800) 787-4981 or

Fill out the form below and receive

CONSULTATION without any obligation

As a Parental Advocate Group, ATC's goal is to help parents resolve their legal issues, without having to come up with a retainer fee, or have to worry about paying an attorney by the hour.

ATC is not a law firm and cannot provide legal advice. ATC helps you prepare court documents based on information you select, and provide us.

www.aboutthechildren.org/index.html

Thank you!  |iiii

Time to make some calls!

I've got a question

If I make an appointment for mediation (I assume he will not show up) , is there anything I can do as far as avoiding court?

Avoiding court -- meaning can you get your goals met (protecting yourself and your D) without going to court? Or having a judge involved?

Avoiding court as I can't afford the costs and costs for a lawyer.

My ex LOVES conflict and only feels the need to 'win' at all costs. He has no concern over the child, only his own narcissistic feelings.

So I'm confused. If you could get a lawyer to help you, one that was maybe not quite free but close to free, would you want one?

You have to at least figure out how court works, and what you need to do, and figure out a strategy, or else you're going to lose a lot more than you've already lost. Hoping that you can avoid court because you can't afford a lawyer is the kind of thinking that is going to sink you.

We're here to help you as much as we can, but you have to be receptive to what people are offering. And then you need to do things to help yourself.

I'm going to be super blunt here because I think I recognize some patterns of thought going on here that I went through myself. Your ex is narcissistic. But you are something too. On some level, being in the role you're in -- the one getting railroaded and bamboozled -- that may be a familiar place for you. Even though it feels awful, it might be comfortable. You know this role, you've been raised to do this, and you probably do it super well. So no doubt it feels terrifying to change how you feel about yourself and what you can do. 

I went through a point where my thinking was so distorted about my own abilities (not surprising, growing up with narcissists, and then marrying one) that my decisions and patterns of thinking were sabotaging me and my situation almost as much as N/BPDx was.

You want a lawyer to represent you in court? Go get one. You can do it. You'll find a way. Don't get discouraged. Don't think about your ex. Think about what you deserve, and what you want for your daughter. Imagine yourself in that court room with a good lawyer who is determined to get justice for every abusive thing your ex has ever done, and who wants to protect you like no one in your life ever has.

Think positively about what is possible here. You might not get everything you want, but you need to start acting like a woman who deserves the best. Because you do. That kind of attitude will draw people to you who believe the same thing. And that's when all of this will start to make sense.

Awesome reply! I will re read this every time I'm feeling rail roaded! My mood just went from helpless - to empowered! All in under 5 minutes just reading this. Thank you for that.

If I can afford any lawyer, I will take one (a good one of course) in a blink of an eye!

So start doing whatever you can to make that happen. If I were a lawyer living in your state, making a lot of money, and this young woman came in who fiercely loved her daughter, and was fighting to get the best she could for herself and her child, I would take you on pro bono. But I would only do it if you were a fighter. If I believed that you were going to change the script for yourself and your child, and stop the abusive script running through your family tree. If you seemed like someone who was going to pick yourself up and make something of your life -- and I don't mean becoming super successful, just becoming independent -- I would take you under my wing.

There are people like me out there willing to help. But they don't want to do it and then see you sabotage yourself. It's too painful to watch. It makes people feel used.

My lawyer does not take on anyone who walks in her office. She turns people away all the time. She told me after my last trial that she took me because she liked me, and she knew I was going to do whatever it took to help my kid. She got into the business because she had a crappy childhood with more craziness than mine, and told me the business has made her successful, but it burns her out. She wants to see her clients win, but she also wants to see her clients thrive.

Just saying that because if you came into my office with your shoulders down, acting like a victim, seeming discouraged even before talking to me, and not thinking anyone in the world can help you, I would give up on you.

You have to tell people how to treat you. And you have to tell people you are worth it. Because you are. People will believe it when you do.

I hope I can let go of my victim mentality. I have no choice but to grow past it.

I can't wait to find a lawyer. My ex is so intimidating , and so are his family.

I'm not going to let myself feel intimidated anymore.

Honest observation and I agree.  Only you can change yourself.  We and others can support you, but it's your burden (ex) of joy (daughter) to bear.


Quite frankly, the odds are you won't "get everything you want", at least not quickly.  For nearly all of us it is a long struggle to parent, we wish it weren't but we have to accept that reality.  However, you will be surprised that you will get far more than you feel possible right now.

Think back to last year.  You were blocked from your daughter for more than a month, yet you went into court and walked out with equal time.  Then you went to mediation and still walked out with equal time, though now with supervision lifted and exchanges every other day rather than every day as I recall.

I fear that if you go to mediation, that time, effort and contact will be wasted, you'll walk out with little or nothing accomplished.  I think court is best, a judge's decision (or a settlement with a judge staring him down) is probably better than you will get from mediation.  Remember, delay and obstruction is on his side, if there is any change to the current order, it's more likely for him to lose than you, so for him delay, disinformation and obstruction are his best tools.  Put your best case before the judge, or be prepared to, and it likely will go better than you fear.  I see a few things to put as priorities:

• Exchanges are alternate days, right?  That is simply too frequent to be workable for very long.  You need a free long weekend with your daughter (or without) so you can travel freely and not have to rush right back.  Push for a change, a solution.  Alternate weekends are a standard almost everywhere.  Of course you want to be majority time parent, so you can try to get him assigned alternate weekends and a couple days spaced out in between.  If it has to stay equal time - never agree to anything less of course! - then get it changed to a schedule such as 2-2-5-5 where one of you gets Mon-Tue overnights, the other gets Wed-Thu overnights and then you both alternate the weekends.



• I repeat, get exchanges to a bare minimum.  That is the biggest stress, the exchanges, it enables personal contact, conflict, manipulation, gaslighting, pressuring and intimidation.



• Get that 4 day wait for drug testing changed, that's ridiculous.  It should be no more than 24-36 hours at most.  Of course, whatever you demand of him he may try to hold you to, so be aware that you'll have to live a life free of illegal drugs or drunkenness.



• Seek to become Residential Parent for School Purposes if you aren't already.  That will be crucial when she gets old enough for school.  Whoever is RP gets the child to go to their school and the other has to adapt to it if living outside the district.



• Accept that you'll almost never be able to make a 'fair' deal with your ex.  He will try to wear you down to accept next to nothing or he will set a trap for you that you won't figure out until later.



• Get a copy of the holiday schedule, strike out the ones that don't apply and get that added to the court order if not already in force.



• Etc... . you get the idea, right?  List all your issues, don't trust your memory.  Edit that list over time, probably adding more than removing.  When you hear good ideas and strategies, include them.

... . And makes them wonder why they ever tried to help you if you can't even manage to help yourself.

That said, you ARE stronger emotionally now.  Yes, your emotions - fight or flight - are still an issue, but you are stronger.  Keep working on yourself, your consistency and your confidence.  Don't worry how you'll achieve your goal, as distant as it may seem to be, just keep doing the small stuff day after day and you'll get there before you know it.

Reality check about being in despair and then feeling empowered... . It's normal for us to have ups and downs, even brief relapses.  But we simply have to bounce back, anything else and the relentless adversary at law, your ex, will take advantage of it.  You do have a weakness here but the good news is that over time you are improving.  Don't be discouraged overmuch.  And if you do feel down, know that it will be briefer and briefer each time.  Down is one thing, hopeless is another.  Feeling down happens to all of us, it's that feeling of hopelessness that you need to overcome, mistakes and poor choices happen when you're feeling hopeless.  In the past year you've used us to help pull you back from despair.  Our goal and yours is to learn to do that for yourself, so you aren't so Dependent on others to put your problems into proper perspective.

This is probably right.  But, where I live, if you refuse to mediate, you'll look bad in the judge's eyes.  (Or at least that's what I was told.)  If you agree to mediate, and nothing is accomplished - and I agree with FD that probably nothing will be accomplished - then at least you will look like you tried.

And... . you might hear the other party say something during mediation that will be helpful.

And... . you might be able to make a proposal, in writing, that the court will view as reasonable, and if the other side doesn't respond in a constructive way, they might not look so reasonable.

The time lost to mediation is a shame, but there may not be much you can do about that, if mediation is considered normal where you live... .

Wow I've just had the MOST stressful half hour!

So, we just moved to the 4/3 agreement, with alternating weeks.  Despite paperwork being clear, ex thinks it does not alternate, and that he gets 4 days all the time.

On wednesdays, I have to pick her up at 8 PM. (yes ridiculous- not going to work out !) So I'm waiting for him to bring her out. Never comes out. I call. He says that they are at church , and in the agreement I have to pick her up from the church. (Which isn't true- there are no pick ups from the church) So I get to the church, and he doesn't answer my calls and I have to walk around all the buildings looking for my child.

***So anyways*** - I email my attorney (for the second time) and tell her everything. She sent his lawyer an email days ago telling him that his client is not following the agreement. I truly believe his attorney didn't even pass on the email- maybe because he's looking for cash to go to court. I'm not sure.


So my concerns that will occur in the next week are:

1. He is forcing me to pick her up from the church! My dad shockingly told me to call the police next time it happens because he is manipulating me to pick her up from the church when it is in the agreement that it is strictly at our residences. I feel like calling the police over something petty is not good, but I still can't let him force me to do that. And frankly it really made me angry when he did that today and triggered my PTSD.

2. I'm going to end up having to call the police when he doesn't follow the alternating weekly schedules. The only thing I'm afraid of , is the police officer not being able to verify the documents , and having to wait until a court date, while settling for 3 days a week with my D2.

Sorry for my scattered writing but I'M SO STRESSED!

No, calling the police when he doesn't comply is not petty, it's what you do when an exchange fails.  This is your yucky opportunity to document who he really is - an uncooperative parent - for court.  However, if your police are like most, I wouldn't count on the police to 'enforce' the order.  They'll push for him to comply but then leave it up to you to get a copy of their report and decide whether to pursue a remedy and consequences in court.

Yes, it sucks, but compared to doing nothing and letting him pull your strings and jerk you around endlessly, it's the way to go.

So even if I have a failed exchange, even something as serious as him not following the alternating 50% schedule- the police won't do anything? So he wins? Just like that?

Well, I don't know what your police will do.  But, no ex doesn't 'win'.  Sure, he gloats if he can cause an exchange to fail or if he makes you run around the countryside, but long term it will allow you to document that he's obstructing your parenting.

So you can't just sit around and mope.  You call the police if the exchange fails or he tries to coerce you to give in and go to wherever he says the child is.  No, you go to the exchange location.  You wait however long it is for the child to arrive or be brought out.  In my area it is a 30 minute window.  Once the window closes, call the police and an officer should be sent out to resolve the 'incident'.  Maybe they'll contact the ex, maybe not, follow the officer's direction.  However, get the officer's name, badge number, vehicle number, whatever.  You have a history of getting no help from the police, you need reports, not checkmarked notations in a log that they visited an address.

Your lawyer should at the least be able to tell you what to document and how to go about documenting noncompliance.  We're remote, aren't privy to all the local details, the locals should know best how to handle the situation.  You need as many specifics as possible - dates, times, witnesses, etc - so that what you have to complain about isn't ignored as vague claims or hearsay.

Thanks for the detailed info. I have no doubt I will have no choice but to call the police within the next week. 

Can you give me more info on non compliance? Ex has been non compliant, to a point of endangering the baby. He failed to tell me of a prescription Iron supplement she was on , deprived her of it when she wasn't under his care. At the same time I was giving her natural over the counter iron supplements, which could have poisoned her and killed her.

He hasn't been compliant in any way with our parenting agreement. Not sure how that will 'help' me.

Because the court sees you trying to comply, and he isn't. If he is not complying with something he agreed to, most courts see that as being worse than court-ordered. Your ex is not agreeing to what he agreed to, and that makes him look super difficult.

My ex also interpreted our court docs (consent orders) in ways that were just not there. The judge got pissed at him for "being the only person in the room who thinks that." He kept saying, "Any reasonable person would think this was x. Any reasonable person would read this as y."

It's a marathon. It adds up.

You need to get a copy of your custody agreement, and you need to make it an item that is in your possession ALL THE TIME.  This is what is going to show the police or anyone else who needs to verify the agreement that you are in compliance and the ex is not doing what he agreed upon.

Keep the agreement in an envelope in your purse or backpack, or in your glove compartment -- a location that you can get to each and every time there is an exchange that could go wrong or a situation in which the ex has the opportunity to "jerk your chain." Because that's what he is doing -- manipulating you.

Make sure you know EXACTLY where in your agreement to point out the exchange details.  Have your info ready and rehearsed so you can tell it to a police officer without getting confused or emotional (this is where your PTSD could kick in, and you want to push past that FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR DAUGHTER).  For example, rehearse statements such as:

"Officer, our custody agreement indicates that we are to exchange on a 4/3 schedule, beginning on <date>.  It is now the date I am supposed to pick up D2 for the beginning of my 4-day custody at this address.  The agreement, which Ex signed on <date> clearly states this exchange schedule here (POINT TO THE EXACT STATEMENT IN THE AGREEMENT).  Ex may argue that the 4/3 agreement is always 4 days in his favor, but as you can see, it is an alternating exchange, and he is not complying with the agreement, and he is withholding D2 from me."

Then, if the police officer does not facilitate the exchange, you get the info outlined above (name, badge, date, time, location, etc.) and ask for a police report that shows you were at the exchange location when and where expected.  Then you give that info to your lawyer and get your lawyer's advice on how to handle it.

What is the best test for a person with a personality disorder to take so they can't fool? I will be going up against her for custody soon and she will be armed with junk.

Its really hard because she is so convincing at first glace, even for awhile initially. Its only when you know her  for awhile that you can see that wow, she is lying about everything.

She went from wanting every other weekend to M-F because she knows that she would have to pay child support and she doesn't want to work. She left and now she wants custody. That test would be nice to have though to at least prove that what I'm saying has merit.

This is where you get the documentation that he is non-compliant.  As GAgirl wrote--practice what you will calmly say to the police.  Also calmly practice the initial call(s)to your ex--"Today we exchange D2 at your house per the mediation agreement at 8pm."  RECORD the call.  Remain calm, this is where knowing exactly what the agreement says will help you, because you can state what the agreement says, then let him run his mouth. 

Also be prepared for the ugly calls or texts that will most surely follow if the police have to be called.  RECORD those calls/keep those texts--it will show how he really is. 

Recording what he says before and after will show his true intent, especially if he plays dumb with the officer. . ."Gee officer, I forgot or I thought today was x, not y. . .I sure am sorry that I caused all this commotion."

Ditto with recording if his Mom calls you.  You can upload the recordings and send them to your attorney as well.  Be sure and keep a back-up sound file.

 

Matt has written fairly extensively on this subject.  MMPI-2 test is considered to be objective and very difficult to 'fool'.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=203978.0

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=203971.0

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=205623.0

Depositions and psych evaluations like the MMPI-2 are two good tools. Depositions will draw out the crazy lies, that your L can then cross-examine in court.

Ok thank you very much, I will have to look into those. Its going to be a battle.

MarkMo, you can also start your own thread so you can share whatever you want about your situation, and get everybody's ideas.

Always have multiple copies of your current order.  I've done that.  I lose track sometimes and at least I'm less stressed to know I've got a spare handy if needed, half the time I don't know when I'll need it.

My settlement agreement was 28 pages long.  It would have been like carrying the Oxford Edition Dictionary around with me.  Thank God my ex wasn't BPD, and I never needed to prove anything!

All great replies. Now I nervously wait for next exchange, in honest anticipation for him to cheat me out of my parenting time.

I didn't notice anybody here address my concerns about him forcing me to pick her up from the church? What exactly will I do then? He makes it to where I have no choice.

When N/BPDx threatened to keep S12, and said he wasn't bringing him to me at our regular exchange time, I called DV. Then I called the police. They put me in touch with an officer who was also a social worker. She told me the only thing an officer could do is a well-child check, and that they can't enforce civil orders.

You'll have to find out from your lawyer or law enforcement what they can do in FL, but I think others here have said you need to document this. Preferably getting a third party involved like law enforcement.

ugh- well that is troubling info. (and by DV you mean  domestic violence advocate?)

SO I have no choice but to just sit there and take it until I go back to court? This is ridiculous.

Maybe it varies state to state? Here I wouldn't doubt that they won't enforce the order. Of course it could depend on the officer and his experience, but most choose to back away.

I think they will get involved to make sure that no one gets hurt. Sometimes they call it domestic assistance. Or well-child check. The reason you might want them to get involved, just to be present, is that your ex has been physically abusive. And also they will a reputable third-party to attest that your ex did not show.

I'm not sure how easy/hard it is, but it might be a good idea to have your exchanges take place at the police station.

Get the exchange arrangements written into the court order.

Here's what's in mine:

* Children will be with Father from day/time until day/time, and with Mother from day/time until day/time.

* Father will drop children off at Mother's residence and pick them up at Mother's residence.

I chose this way so I would be in control - I don't wonder when she will show up - but more importantly so there is no reason for my ex to be at my home.  I don't want to have another scene in my house or even at the curb.  When I take the kids to her house, if she acts out, I can leave.

That may not be what you decide is best - many of our members find it best to do the exchanges at a public place, like McDonalds or even the police station.  You need to figure out what will work best, and get it into the court order - could be temporary orders so you can get it done fast.

At the least I will just have a 3rd party witness and someone to do a well child check.

Matt, my parenting agreement is CLEAR as day. VERY specific, including dates, times, and exchanging at each others residences.

I find it hard to believe, but my ex and his entire family is choosing to read the agreement the way they want to see it.

So now, despite the agreement being extremely clear, he is choosing to believe that he has 4 days every week and I only have 3 , even know it alternates weekly.

Now he is choosing to believe that wednesdays exchange location is at his church, which is a blatant lie and no where in the arrangement.


My options are : Go back to mediation expecting nothing, but at the least I tried

I do not even have the $ to go to court WITHOUT a lawyer.


Can anyone give me some info on contempt of court?

If the agreement is very clear, then it's very important that you hold to that, and not let the other party bully you.  If you both agree to small modifications, by an exchange of e-mails so there is a very clear record, that could work well.  But if the other party is just ignoring what's there and demanding what he wants, you need to hold firm.

Talk to someone at the court, and/or look for a free legal resource.  Some attorneys also offer a free initial consultation.

By e-mail, clarify what you will do, based on the agreement:  "Our agreement - see page 5, the 3rd paragraph - says 'Exchanges will be done by each parent dropping the kids off at the other parent's residence.'  So on Saturdays I will bring them to your residence at noon, and I will expect you to return them to my residence at noon each Sunday.  If you don't bring them to my residence at noon, I will take appropriate legal action which may include informing the police so they can find the kids and bring them to my residence per the court order."  (Or something like that.)

No idle threats - only a clear description what you will do.  Then do it.

I don't believe Contempt of Court merits mediation.  Mediation is to attempt to find agreement on something.  This is noncompliance to an order.

A few weeks after I got my final decree, my ex drove off with our son out of state on a Spring Break week vacation.  Though she had mentioned going a month or two before, she had never given any dates nor given written notice.  Problems were:  (1) She did not give standard written notice as required by the order.  (2) Kindergarten was just completing Spring Break week when she left, so he missed a week of school.  (3) She traded me her Friday night and when I went to pick him up from daycare she was already a couple states away halfway to her destination.  (I resolved then and there to always get my traded time first so she couldn't sabotage the trade!)  So my lawyer had me attempt mediation, ex refused to attend, so I proceeded to court.  The magistrate stated that mediation wasn't required for noncompliance of that sort.

As was mentioned, can you 'consult' with a lawyer periodically as you take ex to court?  Or didn't you say he was taking you to court anyway?  If so, then going to court or not isn't an option, you're going.

By having a lawyer for consultations, you can make sure everything you file is properly vetted, you can review the issues, possible problems, potential traps and optimal solutions to seek, etc.  Yet lawyer doesn't actually 'represent' you and it's less expensive.

I have looked into free legal resources around my area, and found only one , which I have contacted with no response back as of yet.

This is the thing, he has no intentions of holding to the agreement, since he doesn't even believe black and white print in the first place. I have NO doubt in my mind that he is going to withhold her / call the police on ME when I'm only practicing my time sharing ! This week I've got 3 days, next week I've got 4! I'm sure he will call the police on me next week. Then what will I do?

I don't know if I mentioned this, but my daughter just had her birthday , and ex picked her up over 30 minutes early at my residence. Child wasn't there as she went with my dad for 5 minutes to the post office. He told me he was calling police. He ended up not calling, but then proceeded to bring her back an hour late, and handed me a bag of her peed in bday outfit with my mail he opened underneath it, soaked in urine. (She is completely potty trained and has been for a while, but for some odd reason he keeps her in diapers like a baby, but that is a whole other story)

FD:

I don't have any means to put a retainer on a lawyer. He isn't going to take me to court unless a police officer corrects his denial about the actual 50/50 agreement and the exchange locations.

Have 2 copies of the agreement with you all the time, so you can give one to the officer if he arrives.

Some attorneys offer a free initial consultation - maybe 30 minutes or so.  You can ask a lot of questions in 30 minutes.

Or maybe go to the courthouse and ask, "How can a court order like this be enforced?".  Maybe there is a way to do it there that none of us know about.

If you are following the court order, and the police arrive, don't panic.  Tell them what happened and show them the court order.  Ask for a copy of their report.  It will be one more piece of evidence on your side.

I'm certainly going to do everything I can to not let him trample all over me.

I can try for a free consultation, though I would have no intentions of retaining them since I don't have the $. Maybe one can take payments, but they almost always require a down payment (retainer fee) of 1500 at the least . I'll sell my car if I need to, but that will only put me 3500 ahead, but if I have no choice it wouldn't bother me at all.

I need definite advice soon.

Don't feel bad about getting some answers from an attorney.  If they didn't want to give you 30 minutes for free they wouldn't do it.

I first consulted an attorney after getting out of jail - my wife falsely accused me of assault.  It was very helpful, but I decided not to take legal action at that time so I didn't retain the attorney.  He had no problem with that - wished me well and I hoped not to need him again.

Several months later I went back and told him I needed to retain him.  No "I told you so!", just professionalism - he took my retainer and we went to work.  If I had never decided to retain him - or maybe if I found somebody I liked better - it's no problem - that's how he chooses to do business.

You can even talk to more than one attorney if that is helpful and if you can find some who give free initial consultations.  Don't feel guilty about it - you're doing nothing wrong and there won't be any hard feelings if you never give any of them a retainer.

(When they're giving out free samples of sausage or cookies in the grocery store, and you take one, do they follow you home if you don't buy those sausages?  Nope - they're glad to give you the samples and it's probably good marketing for them.)

I don't feel bad about it, lol, I really do need the help. If there is a payment plan we could work out, I would retain the right attorney in a heart beat.

I've had some friends provide recommendations, but all of their retainers are 1500 at the least. The most I can come up with quickly is a grand, and that wouldn't get me far.

Tell your attorney that you have 1K and can pay xx amount monthly after that. Mine let me pay her in installments. There was actually a while there where things were quiet, and I just kept paying her, and she noticed. Now I owe her 6K and she knows I'm good for it. She doesn't charge me interest, just lets me pay monthly.

It is doubtful my attorney will let me do that, as she likes all of her money up front, and asks for more every time before continuing my case. If she won't go for it, hopefully another attorney will.

Some attorneys have what they call a "sliding scale", which means that those who can't pay their usual amount pay 10% less, or 20% less, or maybe even 50% less.  If the attorney has fewer clients than he should, so turning away a client means he has too much time on his hands, he may be willing to haggle, and work out something that is OK for you.

Also, if there is likely to be a settlement later, with money coming to you, many attorneys will take the case in exchange for their fees out of that money.

I'll explore all of these options presented to me. I'm not going to be the passive one this time!

How about you go to the location of the court ordered pick up and wait. If he doesn't show up call the police. When they get there ask for a police report. They may call him if you have his number and ask where he is. (This situation happened with my ex) They could not enforce the court order but did write a police report. (and that's what you want, something in writing)


My ex went to court without an attorney to show the judge he wasn't complying. The judge turned to his attorney and told him if your client doesn't comply with this order completely, and I hear from her again, he goes to jail, no passing go. It cost 35.00 for filling fees and 25.00 to have him served.

This would be an opportune time to let the judge know you have no funds to keep coming to court, you've missed a day of work already.

I do hope my judge will be understanding, I work as a waitress and make about 11$ an hour. I could probably scrape by to pay for court, but paying for an attorney just would not be possible for me. My family does not have any more money to lend me so I am on my own. It just sucks that my ex has unlimited funds, and will use his attorney until the end of time. His attorney is a former prosecutor. He was retained in my brother in law's case about stealing several hundred pain pills from CVS pharmacy as a pharmacist.

Judges don't like seeing police reports proving non compliance of court orders. <-- in this situation it wouldn't matter who his attorney is.

It is apparent that that will happen within the next week, I have tried other options to prevent having a 3rd party intervene but ex CHOSE to act this way and be ignorant, so I just have to pick up the pieces from there. Really wish it wasn't this way, but he is being a real difficult person, as usual.

In order for you to get that one piece of paper (a police report) to prove your case, you can smile in the face of difficulty. (not literally in his face, just knowing you have what you need)

There's no guarantee - could be a complete jerk - but judges are supposed to focus on the law and the evidence, and not on who has the better lawyer.  If anything, it could even work in your favor - courts aim to protect people who are being abused, so if he shows up with an expensive lawyer and you're on your own, but you have as much documentation as possible, and you are prepared to simply state what happened - no exaggeration or assumptions, just facts - I think you will be heard and treated fairly.  Or at least I think that's what you should expect - as I say, no guarantees... .

matt, that gives me hope and I do hope that is what happens. I have a good bit of documentation thus far.

*mod*

Thread is being locked to due exceeding page limit