Title: Feeling at the end of my rope with SO because of his uBPD ex Post by: Cadence on August 22, 2013, 11:56:29 AM Hi all. I'm new here and am looking for some advice. I'm doing this because in addition to reading what you all have to say, I'd like to be able to show my SO the replies. Bear with me, as this is going to be long.
First, I've been with my SO for a little over a year. I'm in my 30s, he's in his 40s. He has two kids (13 & 16) from his marriage with his ex-wife. His kids and I get along pretty well, and I'm very committed to never saying anything bad about their mother in front of them or to them, as I know that would be extremely unfair to them. I have never been married and have no kids. My SO and I love each other very much and see a future together. We both feel like this is the first emotionally healthy relationship that we've been in. I am so very happy with him as a person. He's a really good guy. We mostly communicate well, we joke around, we're committed to each other, the sex is fantastic (and fantastically frequent), and neither of us have had trouble incorporating the other into our lives. It's really all the other stuff that is getting to me. So please understand that I'm doing a lot of venting here. My SO took a solid year off from dating after the divorce, and had a couple of shorter-term relationships before meeting me. I'd been dating, but had been waiting to meet someone really special, and it took me a long time to find him. Before we met, he spent time in therapy understanding his role in the divorce, and was able to become a much more emotionally healthy person as a result. I consider our relationship as evidence that he has the ability to make healthy choices in significant others for himself now, which he didn't seem to have before. I am confident that he and I are the real deal. I've been reading up on stepmothering and all the difficulties that are coming. My SO is reading a book I gave him on that topic, and I appreciate him for doing that. Mainly, the disagreements we do have are about his ex-wife. We have gone around and around on this topic, having the same conversation over and over. I begin to feel guilty for being the one to bring it up, so I try to let go and have fun in our relationship, only to get socked in the gut when I see that some things haven't changed on his end. He and his ex have been split up for three years now. I have no concern over lingering romantic attachment. I do have concern about both of their abilities to complete the emotional divorce that has not at all been completed on her end and has not fully been completed on his end. It's only recently that I've realized that he is as much a part of this as she is. That was an upsetting realization. Some things that concern me:
(to be continued) Title: Re: Feeling at the end of my rope with SO because of his uBPD ex Post by: Cadence on August 22, 2013, 11:57:41 AM (continued)
I was really perplexed about all of this. Finally, I put 2+2 together when I saw the book "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist." I read some of the preview, and suddenly I got it. He's been a caretaker to her. The description of the individual who falls into the caretaker of the BPD/NPD is him, exactly. He is sensitive and caring, he's the oldest child, he didn't get what he needed from his parents, emotions were discouraged, and I believe one or both of his parents to have PDs. His mother from early on made him responsible for her emotions and I have personally witnessed episodes of both his mother and his ex-wife turning to him and trying to hand off their negative emotions so he can handle them. He never saw anything odd about it, but I've been pointing out how abnormal it is to him when it happens. His mother will call him and literally run through a list of her concerns about his life and he dutifully explains to her all the reasons why things are okay. I understand that we can't diagnose his ex with anything as we are not trained professionals. But the chaos of her behavior suddenly makes some some sense to me and I believe that she is likely to be uBPD. Last night, I was eager to show him a video on this site about how to tell if someone has BPD. He discounted it, and said only a few things reminded him of his ex-wife. I reminded him of all of the the statements he has made to me about her - how she has a family history of mental illness, how she's a shell of a person so it's okay to be passive with her because she wouldn't respond to logic, how she believes herself a victim of the world, how she lacks impulse control and self-awareness, how even in mediation she'd walk away feeling like a victim of the process because the mediators could see how nonsensical she is, how he has had friends over the years who dislike her so much they won't even look at her. I've seen the switch that flips into raging when she feels out of control, and how - given some time to realize she's not going to get what she wants - she turns back to "friendly" as if nothing happened. And he pretends nothing happened. And I'm sitting there like this: I feel like she's a great example of a high-functioning BPD. He seems to focus on the lack of suicidality, the lack of the intense love thing in the beginning (which I believe only applies to waifs, which she is not), and that she's really organized and a good parent as reasons why it doesn't apply to her. I feel like he's - again! - making excuses for her and defending her, just as he always seems to do. He seems very resistant to the idea that there is a name for what she has, even though he's described many of the items in that video over the time we've been together. There are some things he agrees are present, like the splitting, and the extreme resistance to compromise. Last night I tried to read some of the book to him. I asked him to please sit up and pay attention. I really wanted to read him the parts about the caretaker so he could recognize himself. I wanted him to read some things about the BPD so he could break away from the DSM classifications. I wanted to show him the process of how the relationship devolves, and how the caretaker eventually withdraws emotionally. I wanted to discuss enmeshment, because I believe the result of that is the reason he still seems loyal to her, reluctant to upset her, and why he can't seem to complete the emotional divorce. I want him to accept that she is who she is - good AND bad - and that she's not going to change. He mostly wanted to get comfortable and fall asleep, and I felt betrayed. I feel like we finally have the material to understand why he remains stuck and he's not taking it seriously. He did agree that he identified strongly with the role of the caretaker, but he seems to have a block about putting the pieces together about his ex-wife. What a dutiful caretaker he remains, right? He still feels guilt for their marriage because he says he wasn't a nice person and was cold emotionally to her. I wanted to explain that while he is responsible for this, it was likely a combination of his underlying depression and the result of dealing with a uBPD for years that cause him to withdraw as a self-protection mechanism. I want him to understand that this friendly low-conflict co-parenting thing doesn't actually exist between the two of them. Instead, we have an overly-involved relationship which occasionally devolves into anger and raging from her side when she feels like she's losing control of him. Sure, we can pretend that this is a buddy-buddy co-parenting thing to people who aren't there to witness how stressful and accusatory she can be, but it's not. Pretending comes at the expense of him, and now it also comes at the expense of me. His favorite saying to me lately when I get upset is "I now do fully understand the need for boundaries but they probably aren't going to happen as quickly as you'd like." I finally asked him to explain this to me, because I don't understand why that is in regard to things like texting. We'd come to an agreement about the boundary that was needed there and he didn't follow through. What's the hold-up, exactly? Last week, he finally realized that he is very resistant to doing the hard work of creating change and that she's not the only one holding on. He also understood that my being his therapist is absolutely exhausting, and that the two of them aren't the ones feeling stress from not making any changes. I'm the one who is feeling it, which is why I desperately want things to change for the sake of the future of my relationship and why I slip into therapist mode. Of course, staying in stasis is comfortable for them. It only becomes uncomfortable for him when he wants a future with a woman who has at least a shred of self-respect. That self-respect has lead me to be honest with him that if nothing changes I'm going to have to say goodbye, because I am not going to set myself up for the heartbreak and failure that the two of them are setting me up for (one actively (ex-wife) and one passively (SO)). I feel like we have a third party in our relationship, and were I to move in with him, my household would be at the whims of his ex. These things are absolutely unacceptable to me, and my SO knows that. I feel like the stepparent thing is going to be hard enough without my having to be at the mercy of his past decisions with this woman. Therefore I am unwilling to move forward with him and do much in the way of discussing our future. I am reluctant to discuss other important issues in our relationship with him because I don't have the trust to "go there" based on what has been happening, and that leads me to feel gypped. I keep waiting for progress to be made, and I'm frustrated that if I'm not yapping away constantly bringing up the problems it always seems to go back to what was. My family is visiting me this weekend, and we will all be going to his house for dinner. Last night I visualized pointing to his ex's place and telling my family that she lives right over there. Just picturing their raised eyebrows about that has me near tears. I wonder why I'm putting myself through this. Even though he loves me and he's the best guy I've ever found, I feel like I'm always going to be second best. I feel he has no perspective of being open to the future with me; instead he still somewhat believes that life began and ended with his ex in his life. I feel like he feels that was his legitimate family, and that by speaking up against members of that family, I am committing an offense from which he must defend them. And that is a very painful concept to me. I just want the benefit of what they had once - two people defining their relationship on it's merits with minimal interference from third parties. I feel like he protects her feelings at the expense of my feelings, possibly because I'm a reasonable person who doesn't rage at him like she does. And when he's so busy caretaking and protecting her, who is protecting me? To my SO's credit, he does really listen to my concerns. He has made changes in the right direction: upon my request, he keeps his cell phone out of our bedrooms to keep any intrusive texts from disturbing us. He contacted her to tell her to please stop going in his house to drop off the kids' stuff, and asked her if she'd like to change the process at her house as well (see above bullet points about her reaction to that.) He's getting there. It's just moving very slowly, and we seem to have reached a crossroads where something has to change with his ex-wife and he needs to hold firm. I remain concerned at his ability to handle this given that I think it originates with a very deep-seated issue: using his relationship with his ex as a way to try to get his needs met that his mother neglected as a child. I feel powerless up against that. I feel pessimistic that he'll ever truly get to the point of seeing his ex as the non-authority figure that she actually is. I tell him "She's just a silly woman. You're the one handing her power over you." He listens, but it never changes anything. Can someone who has been through something similar give us some advice? I'd love to hear from people who have been through what he's going through. I'd like to know how to handle her intrusions and boundary crossing. I'd like my SO to understand whether there is continued enmeshment and how he might get to a place where he can break free, finally. I'd like him to understand from others that have been there wether his ideal friendly co-parenting relationship with her is ever going to be possible, or if parallel parenting is the way to go. I'd like him to understand how critical it is to uphold any boundaries he puts in place in order to keep from intermittently reinforcing her. And I'd like to know how I might stay sane in the face of all of this. P.S. Moving out of the neighborhood is on the table, but it can't happen for a couple of years. It's financial, mostly. Title: Re: Feeling at the end of my rope with SO because of his uBPD ex Post by: DreamGirl on August 22, 2013, 06:23:18 PM Hi Cadence,
*welcome* I'm a stepmom too. Going on 10 years now - and everything you've written, I could've written in that first year. I am going to tell you my main philosophy about what you've written, and hope that you can carry it with you and not have to endure the pure agony I went thru before realizing what is now so obvious to me... . You can't want it for him, he has to want it for himself. My husband, all these years later, is still attached to the OK-ness of the mother of his children. I used to think that fact couldn't coincide for the absolute love that he has for me. But it can. We don't like to think in those black and white terms, right? So, I don't dictate to him how to exist in his relationship with his ex wife - I do have expectations of how he exists in my own marriage with him though. Excerpt Even though he loves me and he's the best guy I've ever found, I feel like I'm always going to be second best. I feel he has no perspective of being open to the future with me; instead he still somewhat believes that life began and ended with his ex in his life. I feel like he feels that was his legitimate family, and that by speaking up against members of that family, I am committing an offense from which he must defend them. And that is a very painful concept to me. I just want the benefit of what they had once - two people defining their relationship on it's merits with minimal interference from third parties. I feel like he protects her feelings at the expense of my feelings, possibly because I'm a reasonable person who doesn't rage at him like she does. And when he's so busy caretaking and protecting her, who is protecting me? I used to call myself the "consolation" prize. Does there have to be a First place and Second place? I don't think so. I mean we don't need to feel secure in our relationship by him diminishing the one that came before. We're here now. We have to just figure out what works and what doesn't work. I had a therapist who helped me a lot in learning to recognize my own values and to implement my own boundaries in my marriage. Kinda like the constant phone calls that you feel are intruding in on your relationship. Boundaries are about *us* and about what we accept into our life. It's not really about controlling other peoples actions. It's not really about getting my husband to mold his life so I can fit in it. If I tell him what to do to make me happy, it's a breeding ground for resentment. Example: My husband's complained about his ex-wife a lot. It became this common bond we formed in ruminating about how awful she was. It felt like she took priority above all else. I told him to stop talking about her. He said that he needed to be supported and that as his wife, I should support him. I felt bad for not supporting him. Someone had to budge. :) So I set a boundary in my marriage. "Husband, it's important to me that our alone time together is focused on me and you. In those moments, like date-nite or laying in our bed before we go to sleep, I won't engage in conversations about the ex." Value = Alone time with my husband is important to me, date nights help our marriage thrive Boundary = Date nite and my bedroom is an ex-spouse free zone. Enforcement of Boundary when he forgot = "Hey, remember, this is about you and me. I won't talk about her right now" Payoff = We both felt supported He even quit bringing his phone into the restaurants we went to for date nights - which was his own boundary (I won't take my interupting phone with me) that he came up with all on his own. :) Cadence, struggling in a relationship when there are children and an ex-wife involved is very, very common. The BPD component just exasperates what's an already difficult situation. It takes work and compromise. Patience and understanding. My learning about this disorder has helped me a lot understand where the Mama of my stepdaughters is coming from and where she really struggles in so many ways. I think it's really good that you are seeeing their dynamic for what it is. I used to use a metaphor that it was like watching my husband and his ex standing in a rain storm and I was begging him to come inside with me where it's warm. If only he would just stop enaging! Set boundaries! Don't let her talk to you like that! Stop being his half of their dysfunctional dancing that they had been doing for 13 years (22 now). He has done some of those things, but not a whole lot. He did learn some better communication skills - because that's what he wanted. So he does come in a lot of times... . and he hangs out with me. Then sometimes... . he grabs an umbrella and goes back outside in the rain. That's just who he is. And I love him for it. DreamGirl Title: Re: Feeling at the end of my rope with SO because of his uBPD ex Post by: Cadence on August 23, 2013, 10:16:44 AM DreamGirl,
Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful reply. I honestly feel a little teary-eyed that someone else knows what I'm going through. I have felt a little crazy myself, looking around at everyone I know and hoping for someone who can really really get it and give me advice, and there is no one. So I want you to know that you made a difference for someone. I appreciate it so much. I do follow what you are saying about having boundaries for myself, and that my SO has to want boundaries with his ex. I am in therapy myself and will be discussing this with my counselor to see how I might get myself in check. The pieces that I am still struggling with are these:
So I know I just walloped you with some information that wasn't in my first post, but do you have any more thoughts with this additional information? Once we both realized that the only subject of our arguing is always about his ex-wife and how happy we are otherwise, SO has agreed to go to counseling together to try to straighten out these issues. I guess that will be a start. Title: Re: Feeling at the end of my rope with SO because of his uBPD ex Post by: Eliana on August 23, 2013, 02:19:22 PM I could have written this as well, especially the first year or two. DreamGirl gives excellent advice here.
*hugs* Title: Re: Feeling at the end of my rope with SO because of his uBPD ex Post by: lilu on May 03, 2016, 01:37:32 PM Hallo everybody, i felt the same! very very similar situation... . He - very hard to understand what is wrong - its like you have to give up of your own life so that you could live their mistakes ? so in that sence - everything is tootally justified bcs they have child and so - everything is allowed - if i say something it was like - oh you knew the situation and you are not tolerant... . anways things are really better now and he seems really to try to change the things - it took some time - it took some nerves but it is reall better in the end... . so i guess SOs just need time to understand and act upon and its like natural that you relationship goes deeper that is enavitable... .Depends of course on the ex condition, I believe there are more severe cases - my case its not so severe but enough that you feel that you dont have your own family space... .I like to say - in kingdom there is only one queen... .And it will always be some kind of possibilty she can get "inside" but if there is clear thing between you and your man she cannot have that power/control anymore... .or that she is not the Mother in family... . Also, my personal thinking is as soon as she realize that she is not anymore so important in his family she would be more free for her new life and love - so she can get the emotional and any other support - that makes things way better i hope as for childer and for others... Things are improved but from time to timw always come something new - and from my expirience the most important thing is your relation to him and that both of you to try to understand bcs they are also ppl with weaknesses maybe is hard for them to "show" us... .it is complex... .but if love is there and talk and understanding it is possible to live feee life... . Somebody mentioned - we should concentrate on our on life and we want to do to feel not to give much attention to her and the problems - not in the sense not solving them but in the sense not to put too much importance - if you understand what i am trying to say Lots lota of love and understanding ⭐️⭐️ Title: Re: Feeling at the end of my rope with SO because of his uBPD ex Post by: bravhart1 on May 04, 2016, 11:29:22 AM Cadence,
You are not crazy. You have a borderline in your life. That feels a lot like being crazy. I have a SO(my DH of four years) he has a now diagnosed exgf who he was with for ten troubled years, they have a now seven year old daughter. So I'm step mom and wife. His ex is trouble with a capital T. I fell for DH for so many reasons, he is sweet, kind, caring, sensitive, and thoughtful. He is also as I've discovered now, all those things with his crazy battle ax ex, much to my chagrin. I want him to be those things for me, the woman who deserves it, but not those things for her the fly in the ointment. Life unfortunately does not work like that. And I've come to see he is all those wonderful things and I can't pick and choose when he can be that way. Having said that though, I will say this: he needs to for his, your, and his children's sake, learn to enforce better BOUNDRIES and clearer picture of the power struggle going on. His ex sounds 100% borderline to me. I am not a Dr but I do have this person in my life and I have read more than I am willing to admit on the topic. His children NEED him to create some space. They are setting fires? That's not normal in any way, that's a very big red-flag He may believe that he is keeping everyone in a peaceful place, but he needs to understand that he is actually showing and teaching his children to acquiesce to the borderline in some misguided attempt to pacify her. Which EVERYONE on this site will tell you, will not work. My motto is "don't grow a wish bone where your backbone ought to be" and it could not be any more true than for the people dealing with a borderline. You have no power to change her, or your SO. All you can do is ask him to continue to work on his stuff. You can point out how he may need to be stronger than he is comfortable with for his kids and for your relationship. What he'll do with that is up to him. My DH is better, but not for lack of pure willpower on my part, and it's been a struggle. We aren't necessarily better for it, as I began to be just as controlling as his exgf to get him there. I doubt he would tell you it was pleasant. I had my reasons, his D7 has been in trama and she wasn't doing well emotionally. But men don't like to change and sensitive caretaking men are more hurt by our criticism than others. ( please also know I totally get the turn off of a passive guy) Think LONG and hard about whether you really want to be hitched through this family to this woman forever. Those kids aren't going away and neither is her illness. I love my DH, and he IS a great guy. But the quality of my life has diminished greatly because of her. I got drug into a spiral of muck before we found a way out. But it still lingers just above our heads to drop in again at any moment and that's the beauty of the borderline. It sounds hard, but believe me it could be much worse for you. I hope you get the answers here you are looking for. We have all experienced different situations and damage from the BPDp in our lives. Some are mild, some are extreme, which means we will have a mild or extreme reaction to them. My experience was extreme, so I give you sympathy and a warning. Only you can judge where your BPDp falls on that scale to determine your stomach for it. But we (this board) are here to help, either way. I would have been lost without this. So good that you found it, welcome and good luck. Title: Re: Feeling at the end of my rope with SO because of his uBPD ex Post by: warhar on May 04, 2016, 01:50:02 PM Hello Cadence - Your post could have been written by my SO with just a few slight variations.
When I had LC with my ex, I had the dramas, the midnight emergency-texts, the rants and all the other fun-stuff, BUT, I got to see my children. As I learned about boundaries and started implementing NC she retaliated (as I suspected she would) so that I now haven't seen my children since Xmas. Having NC with her is WONDERFUL. Having NC with my children has my heart broken. I suspected it would come to this, maybe he fears the same? Title: Re: Feeling at the end of my rope with SO because of his uBPD ex Post by: bravhart1 on May 04, 2016, 03:52:21 PM ^^But why? Why do you have to settle for the BPD being in control of whether or not you see your children. Courts aren't as moved by the plight of the mother trying to rid herself of her ex as they used to be, and if it's money then go fight for yourself. If you don't try you can't win.
Your children deserve to have both parents, and you need to fight for them. Title: Re: Feeling at the end of my rope with SO because of his uBPD ex Post by: warhar on May 04, 2016, 05:03:45 PM Hello Bravhart1 - I don't want to jump Cadence's thread (I hate it when that happens to me!) So I'll start a new one - give me a few minutes
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