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I was wondering (for real) why the personal inventory board was note more bush as usual. I remember running huge threads in this forum and now i have the feeling more people seem to as we bankers call it "pump and dump" there emotions in L3, the detachment topic while I reckon more phocus should be led on personal guidance out of the misery.

But thats just my opinion , I'm just a highly educated banker who got fooled by a clever high functioning BPDer and just back for a short while as my therapist told me to valuate and sense the feelings of others on this board and compare them with your own feelingd as what I myself have written here when th curtains where darker than davy jones locker.

 |iiii  Agreed!

Yeah I have wondered the same HarmKrKow.

I have a few theories:

-Some people might not have the 50 posts requirement necessary to post in the "taking inventory board".

-Some people come to the forum to gain support-to discuss their experiences with a pwBPD with someone else-and that may be their sole reason for posting here.

-It can feel weird talking about your emotions and really soul search on an anonymous internet forum. I definitely think that posting on the personal inventory thread should ideally be combined with therapy + seeking social support from family and friends. Online support is great however I think that it should be combined with face-to-face support in your daily life.

-Some members are struggling with mental health issues such as depression, anxiety, PTSD so that may be a barrier preventing them from posting here.

-The personal inventory board might seem intimidating to some people-they might start comparing their progress to other peoples' and think "why am I not over my pwBPD yet? why am I not at that point?" Some people have described leaving a relationship with a pwBPD as a grieving process-that you go through the stages of denial, bargaining, anger, acceptance. I'm sure I'm leaving some stages out but that's just out of the top of my head!

-Some people might feel overwhelmed by all the emotions that they're currently experiencing. They may want to post on the personal inventory board but may not know where to start.

I noticed in the parents board, they used a format to simplify the process. We could do the same thing here and that might help build up traffic again.

Something like this perhaps:

*

What emotions am I currently experiencing:

Anger: __

Fear: __

Loneliness: __

Sadness: hit

Joy: hit

Contentment: hit

Take a deep breathe in and out until you feel relaxed.

Do I take good care of myself by exercising, self-soothing, eating well, taking time to relax, go on holiday etc?

hit_

hit_

Name one thing that I could do each day to make myself feel good. It doesn't have to be a big thing-even something like putting on your favorite perfume counts.

hit


*

Something nice and easy like that to ease people into this board and get them thinking about how they can be good to themselves.

I had not considered posting on the personal inventory board before. I know that I am still recovering from the effects of being married to a BPD man 35 yrs; and this board could be very helpful.

I kept ruminating the past with ‘poor me, all those wasted years, why did that happen to me’ crap. I am beginning to see that you can't think in the past like that; it screws with your present and your future.

The big thing for me right now is that I am starting to let myself feel emotions again!

Instead of burying my emotions like I use to, I've learned  that it is better to let myself feel them (otherwise I keep dragging them with me, sort of like a bunch of tin cans on strings tied to the back of my car). 

The results are making me feel stronger, more confident and empowered. I like these new feelings a LOT.

Another big thing is that I also decided to quit dating. 

Everyone kept pressuring me to find a man (a sane man) but I kept attracting the same kind of dysfunctional people.  Once I told friends and family that I am not going to date anymore, they have stopped the pressure and I feel free to pursue other neglected aspects of my life. 

I know that I can rescue myself; no one else can do that for me.

Sometimes I still feel anger that my ex continues his smear campaign against me

I was very fearful that I could not make it without him (like he always told me) but that fear has faded

Sometimes I feel lonely, but I'm learning to enjoy my time alone

Sadness over what should have been, has been replaced by hope for the future

Joy can been found in the smallest meaningful things!

Contentment is felt more often than not these days

Gratitude for not having to endure my BPD ex gets stronger every day that I am out of his life

Not everyone looks at themselves to see what they could do to live a better life. Learning to be vulnerable and make close connections is scary to many people.

I would like it if there was a success stories area... people that made it, got past all this stuff and turned out well.

How is your taking personal inventory going?

I am concluding things I never dreamt of; Like being in T helps... even when it doesn't seem to be at all, as being around a well regulated person that listens non-judgementally seems to really help me. Freud was right about a lot of things that sounded like a crock... it mostly goes back to our childhood. Much of what we identify with (what we take pride in)... and are defensive about... is ego, false self, exact opposite of what/who we are, so someone that prides themselves on being a loner, is often reacting to being lonely, that kind of thing.

Was really starting to think I was just wasting time and needed to buck up and get on with things. My sister and brother in law are having marital problems... brother in law was diagnosed with cancer and is freaking out. In the past I would have avoided the situation, and told him I was sorry, and offered to help if I can to my sister. Being through this whole bad r/s with a pwBPD... came to find mindfulness very helpful in reducing stress so I plan on talking with my brother in law. The issue between them is that he ruminates/worries and is snippy, negative and stress inducing to my sister. She has MS and a good attitude about it, basically it is a fact of life and it isn't going to stop her from enjoying what she can. He has a possibly curable cancer that he doesn't want to face and deal with... nor his own mortality, so he worries endlessly. Looking at my own issues, and taking inventory, I found I ran from unpleasantness of all types. My little sister faces things heads on and has always been a happier person for it. So soon I will see if I can talk with him about the worst things he is facing, death and a painful demise... .something most of us fear. Whatever happens will happen, but he can face it alone (which is what will happen if he keeps acting like he does, my sis is ready to divorce him)... or he can do something about it, perhaps get mindful, stop ruminating, accept that he has a problem, and see and do something about it with his wife that loves him at his side.  Seems like a no-brainer.

The fear of facing your own problems is probably why this is not a busy place... .hard to look in the mirror. We all have FOO issues or shortcomings to deal with.

I think at this point in recovery, we lose the need to share everything little thing like we did in the leaving board.  We tend to share the big things.  I think it is growing up, learning how to handle the small stuff with relative ease but still growing, learning, sharing on the bigger obstacles. 

I'm relatively new and hang out on the Leaving board a lot because I identify with the folks there and feel that's where I can be the most empathic and supportive because many people there were or are facing the same kind of decisions I've already made with respect to the pwBPD in their lives.

One thing that is very visible on the Leaving board is that a lot of thought and energy is being focused externally upon the BPD partner/ex. Much fewer people are asking themselves why they stayed in an unhealthy relationship.  I think that would have to be a prerequisite to discussing personal inventory?

I agree it's easier for most people to look at other people than to look within. It's easy to feel ashamed if we look inside and find ourselves not measuring up or inadequate. That's not a great feeling.

I don't post here much because the issues I want to work on have NOTHING to do with BPD.  I've been away from all of that for a very long time and quite frankly, I just don't care about BPD anymore.

There is life after these horrific relationships and it's a GOOD life!  I am here to tell you that!

Even so... .there are many other relationships that come across our paths that are difficult - they may not be as horrific as a BPD relationship, but they are still difficult. Many of the things we read on these boards are very helpful in every day relationships - I still read here because it helps me to deal with difficult people.  

Many of the things we read on these boards are also helpful in identifying things in ourselves that need tweeking.  I'd like to talk about those things here, but when I've tried to do that and it doesn't involve BPD, the topic dies, or worse, it gets moved to some board where I never wanted it to be in the first place --- and then it dies because it's been moved to a board where BPD is still a hot button.  So that's one reason.  That sort of makes sense to me -- these boards are about BPD and if you don't want to talk about that, then there's not a lot to talk about -- and that's appropriate.  The board IS called bpdfamily    Anyway... .I read things here that I apply to myself, but I rarely talk about those things here anymore.

The other reason that is possible is that the boards tend to move in cycles.  We'll have a whole new group of people arrive and they are all still in the "deer in the headlights" stage.  A good portion of those people will disappear quickly - they'll pour their hearts out for a month, maybe two and then they leave -- do they return to their BPD relationship?  Probably.  Who knows what happens to them.  Of the remaining portion, some will get stuck in detaching for a very long time.  It's hard to work on yourself when your entire being is wrapped up in someone else.  And, IMO, that's where a lot of our members live. I lived there for a very long time too, so I get that.

Of all of the people who come here, I think it's a very small percentage that end up on PI - and when they do - the board is very slow --- hard to want to participate.

turtle

"Pump and dump" is a bit drastic in tone, but pretty spot on!  People arrive here with urgency driven by pain and confusion.  The site is an emergency room that triages people to the appropriate treatment rooms.  The slower, long term rehabilitative work is a different rhythm.

I am just working through the Ambassador lessons now.  When I am feeling good about myself I sometimes don't want to come to the boards because I feel "vulnerable" again when I connect with how people are struggling, or even realizing on the inventory board how long a real recovery can take.  I suppose it is my own form of denial... .for a while I want to pretend that all is normal... .and if I pretend long enough or ignore the pain from the broken relationship then it will all go away! 

Hmmm... .now I am taking some personal inventory!  I am often afraid that if I confront my fear and pain that it will overwhelm me... .that I will not be able to withstand it, so I compartmentalize it or try to pretend it away.  Sounds like I need some more work!

I've made it to this board from Staying instead of Leaving... .and find that once again, the focus there is on the pwBPD that people are in a r/s with. Or on what they can do to better cope with the crap the pwBPD does as they start to get it more. Either way, it starts out as a never-ending source of problems/need for solutions. There is a lot more action over there!

PI is hard and slow work, so it certainly is less busy. I've got something I want to work through myself, and might start a thread about it here... .or might not. As I started writing about it offline, I notice that what I've got is kinda rambling, and I think I need to better find the question before I ask it.

From what I've learned from my therapist is that the emotional venting in for example L3 is nice, and sometimes necessary, but relatively similar as walking around in circles. Or like a wave, comes up, goes down, comes up, goes down.

I would still like to share the big things! :P I think from the moment you cut yourself of the BPD and start rebuilding your values as a human being even more interesting than the emotional hack and slash and venting on our previous BPD partners as all the persons there talk all along 1 side of the coin. It's hard to have someone NOT to agree with you on the L3 boards :P.

I agree with RT and would love to hear you share a big thing.  :)

(oh, that sounds kind of naughty)

You up for sharing something that you are working on recently with yourself?

Of course. Broke up with BPD/social phobia ex in March. Months of struggle, the hardcore members remember that period of me here.

Since September I live in a new studio, meaning new memories! I have been diagnosed with light PTSD. No more bed which reminds me of ex (This was seriously a big thing!). I have been dating this new girl for a few months now, she comes over from time to time. Sometimes a huge struggle, sometimes fun. I chose not to wait anymore and 'wait for the so called right moment'. Whether that was wise or not, has to be seen.

I have been following therapy since October 2012 and the last few weeks the therapy has intensified. Every bad nasty memory which seriously can make a person's stomach turn has been attacked by EMDR sessions by my psycho-therapist. I was crying like a 4 year old, after the session no more tears, just a headache. Slowly cutting out the toxic pieces of my ex in my head. Other than that the big move was also moving away from my family as most of my child issues (and the reason why I got into the BPD mess and ignored the  red-flag 's) originate from my family (father & mother). Meaning, I have no contact with any part of my family besides my father. None. Only the father. No grandfather, aunts, cousins, nothing. I can tell you guys that from time to time that feels quite lonely and also gives the feeling, hey, Harm can't deal with his family? meaning the problem lies with HIM! and not the christian fundamentalist side of the family (mothers side, very superb strict christian side) or my fathers side ( the typical silent work types who don't discuss feelings or emotions with anyone and are completely 1-dimensional ). My therapists agreed with me on cutting ties with my family side, this all has been decided lately. But it eats at you, because wherever you go, people have family. Harm has(!) family but is not in contact with them anymore. They are all energy suckers and life drainers. Simple case of never given any love from them side and whatever choice I made in life was a wrong one in their eyes.

Before all this misery, I already fled my country (Netherlands) once to London (United Kingdom) to get away from my crazy family, I came back to the Netherlands purely out of the sake of my BPD ex and started doing a MSc degree at university in Maths'. We lived together at the university campus, 500 meters away from lecture hall and the examination rooms. However, that was in Sept. 2011 and until this day that has not been finished and obviously my ex left the Netherlands and is now enjoying a life over a 1000km away from here. (In european terms, a 1000km is a lot :P).

This entire endeavor completely ___*d up my stress hormone system as life turned to a grey vision (depression) and my cortisol levels went apehit. Meaning, my short term memory went from amazing to goat cheese. Considering I study a mathematical degree which I really(!) have to finish, a goat cheese memory is not helping. The EMDR therapy has helped thus far to slowly bit by bit get rid of the ex so there is more space for derivations :).

My biggest problems at the moment are the fact that the 21st and 22nd of October I have 2 exams at Uni, which I have to pass but I simply cannot seem to get my sh!t together and buff it up and start doing good studying, because the hurdle (read ex) is fighting with me and the moment I do have a good study session, i forget everything for the next morning. And you can imagine that when entering university grounds or even the examination hall, my mind goes NUTS. Ex ex ex ex ex ex ... ex ex ex ex ex ... .ex ... .ex ex ex ... .

If I do pass, I can leave this country behind me and go back into the corporate banking world. My professors, my ex colleagues and everyone around that are firm believers I have everything that it takes to pass exams and I already had a few top international firms asking if I was ready to start working again.

So in short.

-Rebuild a bit of my life, new house, new place, new environment, new girl, new pet and far away from my family

-Revisited a lot of OLD places where I was with my ex with either my new girl, new friends, etc. Meaning I am rebuilding triggers

-Life still "sucks", as everything I do is grey, has no joy, and feel chronic pointlessness of doing everything in life

-Short term memory is donkey poo, I can not remember things longer than a day ...

-Frequent, very frequent therapy visits, they are very happy with the progress and I literally make months and months of progress in just a few weeks. I fly! They like me more than I like them though :P But all I want is just to get out of this mess so the more visits I can have, the better. I can feel it helps, so *yay* on that.

-Lot of contact with ex-colleagues and professors to keep the fire high under my bum

-I don't have a lot of anxiety or panic attacks or any of that

-The rational side of Harm is slowly returning. The emotional side is still weeping and crying like a 2 year old.

-I do feel lonely, but in a deeper sense of way. I can take a train to Amsterdam, walk into a random pub, get tipsy and talk to strangers. The shallow loneliness is the problem. I feel like I don't fit in.

-I pass my exams? Meaning a ticket out of the Netherlands and back in either New York or in London.

-I fail my exams? I'm ___*d beyond ___*d, can forget a normal career again in Finance and can start making myself ready to work as a clerk or assistant in a supermarket (there 2 years ago I was deriving mathematical equations for a private banking department of a big multinational bank for a lot of cash.

The reason why I came back for a while on this board was because my therapist suggested to go back to places where I was before when it truly hurted when I was with my ex and I have evidence on how I reacted at that time and how I now feel by reading those messages. This board is of course the perfect example for that! All in all I don't like life but I have nothing to complain for. New studio (build 2009), very cute girl, can pay for my studies, am doing a very highly reputation-able world wide recognized degree. I keep swimming. It's nice to have heard that the sole reason why I struggle with life right now is the complete wacky youth due to my family but that's something which isn't helping me now.

How do I do relax? Zen! There is no past nor a future. There is only the present. That's how I live.

And my ex? The main reason why all this hit started? She still contacts me, by mail, calls, etc. I from time to time reply. But it's a 1-way street.

Thanks for allowing me to vent W2K  :*

I like this thought - it's very yoga-like, which I do twice every weekend.  Also to add in there - no judgment.  Just accept who you are as you come to your mat.

I also like the rewiring triggers.  I'm a big believer of confronting your triggers - it makes them less powerful.

Can you put off the exams for now while you are healing?  I'm sensing that you are working through anger right now, as a lot of us are also doing.  If the exams are too important to fail, I'd put them off for a while. The psalms are good for anger, King David was dealing with lots of troubles when he wrote those, they may bring some comfort.  :)

I can't put the exams off :- (. Yeah, I can but the next opportunity is July 2014, and waiting such a long period is not going to do me any good either unfortunately. One of the problems is the location I am sitting and the on/off confrontation with triggers from the past with my ex & family.

Graduating means a ticket out of this country and I'm not getting any younger. I'm not the typical 22 year old brat at university, i'm 5 years older than most people in my class, living on my own with already years of working experience behind me.

Let alone the money etc. I am currently not working and full time working on my study.

Thanks for noticing the anger within me :) :P

Not to be judging anyone, at all... .but isn't confrontation of triggers the only way to get the intensity lower and therefore being able to process it?

Yup... .that's why sometimes when folks say NC is the only way, I think that can backfire.  Of course it's important in some cases, but living in 'fear' of your ex contacting you is something that's not going to help you process the reality - it's just a text, or a phone call.  Answering or don't, but don't limit yourself, as that cuts something off, if that makes sense.

You could have been my boss with that typical no nonsense straight forward thinking. Besides ZEN, that IS the exact way I browse through life. No point in the 'awwww' everything will be better attitude, drop it like the truth. And not some masked truth to ensure a lower amount of pain to bite you back in the bum when they found out it was a white lie.

I think it's cool that you are doing EDMR... .I found that very helpful - I cried like a baby, too, and then there was the blank movie screen - just peace.

To me it's just a simple numbers game. I may have a post that's about personal inventory but also is about detaching from BPD wounds, and I would post in the latter because I know more people could read it and I'd get more responses and perspectives to think about. So for me its as simple as that, I've never tried to skirt looking at myself, I just want to get as many opinions as possible so that I can look at myself.

There are over 8 times as many posts on the leaving board as there are on the personal inventory board, and many of the reasons have been stated already.

I think the biggest reason is it's a lot easier to slam someone else than it is to look at our own stuff, 8 times easier apparently.  BPD is a serious mental illness, and the fallout from being involved with that pathology can be profound, as we all know.  And then there's a point where the finger pointing has run it's course and we have no choice but to look at our part in the dysfunction that was that relationship, or not.  Time, distance and NC all contribute to the strong emotions waning, many of us were motivated by pain to come here, and once the pain subsides the motivation wanes as well.  Having said that, it's time for me to start a new thread on this board, since the gift my BPD gave me was a glimpse into what still needs work; time to manufacture some motivation.

HarmKrkow-I think you're wise to proceed with your exams now as normal. Relationships will come and go whereas your career is the one thing you can always rely on.

I don't think there's anything wrong with feeling angry either.

:)! Thanks!

I also agree with the 'relationships will come and go' and you will eventually adjust to that situation (social life/relationship) but the career path is sort of the one thing I can rely on. Also very coincidentally spoke to my ex just a few hours ago!

I don't know what EDMR therapy is, but I am curious.

No Contact with your ex all depends on how abusive your ex was. My presence triggers mine to go straight into crazy-talk mode, so why would I want to submit myself to that?

I realize that I am still detaching from BPD wounds.

Hi Harm, glad to hear that you are feeling again. I agree with your pump and dump thought.

When I first got on the boards I was way past the leaving stage, that was done and over. What was left was my need to tell my story and connect with others who had shared experiences. That is what this board allowed me to accomplish. There was always someone here to read the words and validate the feelings. I needed that then but now my story has been told and in the telling given me peace and strength. So now I less frequently post. I still read on here a lot, finding bits of wisdom, ideas to consider or books to read. I hope someday I will have the knowledge to post more on others threads as a way to pay forward the understanding that I found.

All the best with the exams.

Thanks :) I will let you guys know how that goes. For me it was very interesting development on this board.

Starting off with, leaving/staying.

Than broke up, the disastrous emotional distress came. Suicidal thoughts, the entire shabang

Then therapy and months off this board

Then new house, new girl, new place, new everything and still therapy with the question, go back and check how you feel now :P


EMDR is an EYE movement trick by a psycho-therapist, to lower the intensity felt by a crappy memory you have of your relationship.

One example is the last phone call I had with my ex, where she ranted 15 minutes on me, where I didn't have the strength to say anything back, and she went on a full murdering machine rampage with literally burying me verbally. I was the worst person on earth, will never get a life again, will be homeless, I will never get a gf again, i suck, i need professional help, i need to be locked up, i'm psychological ill, i need to be in a straight jacket etc... .

I had so many nightmares of that one moment that all the symptoms I showed were a 1-1 link with PTSD. And one thing lead to another, diagnosed with PTSD and straight into EMDR training. Why? Because I believed everything my ex said, I lowered myself completely in value and what she said, was true (of course not) but hey that's why im in therapy to get rid of those feelings :P

I do feel I am sort of stuck in my recovery at the moment. Therefore i'm also back on these boards for a while.

I admit that I had a bit of a blow. My ex knows I have exams on Monday and Tuesday, however, she told me that after we broke up, she has not gotten her period and she got diagnosed with some hormonal thingy which might decrease or screw over her fertility.

I feel guilty, because I know she's not lying.

This has nothing to do with detachment, or feelings for her. This has more to do with the thought now eating in my head saying, ___hole Harm. You are to blame for her if she can not ever get pregnant again.

Hormonal thingy?


How do you know for sure that she's not lying? Did you see any official documentation on this or did you just tell you this?


How is it your fault? Was she not using condoms and the pill? She is responsible for her sexual health... you're not. Women are also meant to get smear tests at least every two years to check for cervical cancer etc... this is all basic self-care.  There are women who don't use condoms-that just use the pill and that doesn't offer any protection against STI's. I have friends who are medical professionals so I've heard from them how irresponsible some women are regarding their sexual health...

I hate to say this but borderlines are prone to cheating-how can you be sure that you are to blame? She could have gotten this "hormonal thingy" off another guy...

I sense that she's just trying to manipulate you with this... .she sees that you're doing well with your career, that you're doing your best to move on and she's trying to retain control over you. I'm being blunt here however I know that you like hearing the truth so I'm sure you'll appreciate hearing an honest unfiltered opinion on this...

She told me she has high levels of prolactin in her blood. And that it's due to the fact she is not over our r/s.


I don't. You are right. I don't. I only know that when since she was little, she had issues with her period because when she was younger she had a enormous issue with her ovaries. However, during our r/s, she did(!) get her period. I know before our r/s she also had issues of getting her period.


Thanks for being blunt and unfiltered. That's the only way my brain works. I don't like being padded on the back if I don't deserve it. I don't like sweet talking numerous things, it is how it is. Thanks.

She told me that she got it, because she is not over the r/s. She told me that it can't be due to other factors (work/social life etc), so it had to be due to the r/s break up.

Fact of the matter is, I don't know if she has cheated. She told me numerous times when we were in our 'hatred' phase in the r/s, that she multiple times contemplated on cheating with me. She hated me so much for everything I pulled her through that she wanted me to suffer. She wanted me to be in pain. She wanted to cheat and cheat to hurt me. And she all openly told me this. I was flabbergasted when she told me all this while looking in my face.

It hurts, because she told me constantly she wanted a huge family of kids... .and I don't want the label of the last boy who she had a chance with. But again, I don't know if she's lying. I just didn't see her incentive why she would lie to me.

It's great how open you are to blunt feedback... .very refreshing! 

Does your ex have PCOS (Poly Cystic Ovarian Syndrome)? It can cause period problems and reduced fertility. If your ex has PCOS, then that's really unfortunate for her but she really is responsible for her own physical health at the end of the day. She needs to go to her doctor and seek treatment for this issue. I don't understand why she is telling you about this issue-aside from trying to guilt-trip you and make you feel bad. It sounds like she's trying to put you back into FOG (Fear Obligation Guilt). You're not even together anymore-did she ring you specifically to tell you this?

I think that you're probably best setting a boundary with her on this issue to prevent her from worming you back in again. I think that you could say something like "it's unfortunate this has happened to you however it's a good idea to stick with your treatment plan for this issue." That would deflect any guilt/blame back onto her... that it's her responsibility to deal with it... not yours!

You say that you don't see the incentive of her lying to you but that's because you're an honest person. I'm honest too so I don't lie either. But other people are not like that and will lie for seemingly random reasons. So I think it's a good idea to take whatever she says with a heavy pinch of salt. The only way you would know for sure that she's telling the truth on these health issues is if you actually talked to her doctor. And since that's not possible, I don't think you should be too concerned about her health issues. I hate to say it but it could be a total lie designed to hook you in again. If you could trust her, then you would not be on bpdfamily in the first place.

Devaluing someone is emotionally abusive so you're really dealing with an abusive person here. Have you read literature on domestic violence? There are times when abusers try to recycle their victim back in with promises that they will change etc. The "cycle of violence" is very informative. Traditional domestic violence literature refers to the victim as female and the abuser as male but we all know that men can be victims of domestic violence too. And emotional abuse counts too-it doesn't have to be physical/sexual abuse.

I think that you need to prioritize your own health here. You've stated that you're suffering from PTSD as a result of this relationship... put yourself first. You're doing great-going to therapy, focusing on your career-and I feel concerned that this latest contact from your BPD ex could undo that progress.

Here's how I read what you said:

She wasn't having periods/couldn't get pregnant before your r/s with her. She isn't having periods/can't get pregnant now after your r/s with her. She did have periods during your r/s with her.

An equally valid conclusion here is that you did something "right" for her that might have made it possible when you were with her. (And given what I've heard about custody disputes/child rearing with a pwBPD, you dodged a bullet!)

I don't believe that either. I think her fertility (or lack of it) is a medical thing, and you have no control over it, and she has very little control over it.

Great words Musicfan42!

HarmKrkow, please don't let your manipulative ex undo your progress. It doesn't matter if she is lying or not (and they usually are lying, and expert at getting you to doubt yourself and believe their lies).

Trust your gut instincts from now on. I had to learn what my gut instincts felt like after my r/s because I had to ignore them for so long that I forgot I even had gut instincts!  

I got free counseling at my city's domestic abuse shelter. I learned that there is no excuse for abuse ever, even if the abuser has a mental health issue like BPD.

Never feel sorry for them, they abused you! You have to protect yourself and stay away from abusers.

Codependents have an inordinate amount of taking on guilt for how others are doing/feeling.  BPDers have an inordinate way of playing the victim.  It really is a match made in hell!  Get out of the rescuer corner of Karpman's triangle and get in the middle.  :)  BPD have to be in a corner at all times (victim is a favorite), but we don't.  Does she give a dang how you've been doing?  Nope.  Being ill is not something you wished on her, people have health issues, we can be supportive without taking on responsibility.  Funny, her emotional abuse was a direct cause to the distress you are healing from now.  Does she feel any guilt about that?

Yes, she has that issue, and also hyperprolactinemia because she is not over the r/s with me. That's what she told me. She got hyperprolactinemia because of me. And then there was a whole story about she is SO trying to get over me but her body told her 'otherwise'.

She sometimes gives me a very strong feeling that she enjoys having catched up on me with studies and work. When we met, I was the successful one. Now after she is the successful one and I am the failure. When I did my exams back in July, I literally couldn't think straight and everything I did, I heard a "evil" muahaha, you don't know the answer this question either... I failed horribly and therefore I have to resit them now.


I do feel sorry for her. She had a worse youth than mine. I know I got sucked into the BPD drama also because my youth wasn't that great. No physical abuse or anything, but just zero love what so ever, with divorced parents and 5 different foster parents in my youth. My ex had a hitty youth.

My cortisol levels after the break up got screwed over. I got straight into PTSD because the way I reacted to all this was so severe, it even scared me. I puked sometimes 10 times in a row because of a trigger.


I do agree with your point that I never (after the b/r with my ex) felt that she TRULY cared about how I was doing for 1 measly second.

I have my exams on Monday and Tuesday and I nearly broke today. My memory doesn't last longer than 24h so it seems. and the amount of knowledge I need to get in my head is quite a bit. She told me she can't get pregnant. She knows I have my exams soon. If I fail my exams I have 7 months of Holiday before my resit and any proper chance of a good career are gone. I only fit in 1 normal working society, that's within banking.

After the break up, I had a long time here, posting, emotional venting. I really improved, new shack, new place, new everything. Still therapy, and already had several EMDR consults. I was gone here for a good few months trying to work on my recovery. Slowly bit by bit getting ready.

Now a few days before my exams I crack emotionally. I ended up crying for an hour in the shower today, with the fear of not passing the exam and the feeling i am not allowed to pass those exams. I have no family to go to because my therapist told me not to use that anymore for any crying shoulder. Majority of my friends all live in London and work there in the financial industry (as you can imagine they don't work 8-5). I am still in the Netherlands because of my move to this country with my ex in September 2011.

Atleast I understand why the therapist would tell me to re-evaluate my emotions from the past when i just broke up and how i feel now (and thus get back to this board). I think they were expecting me here to vent again as I really don't have much other place to vent about this :P

You ex is just using all these apparent illnesses to manipulate you. She might just have googled it online for all you know... she might not be sick at all.

It sounds like she is jealous of you because she knows that you're smart.

You still are successful-you gained a good job at a bank, you're going to therapy... you're doing great! 

You have PTSD as a result of the relationship but that's not your fault... it's just down to the emotional abuse you suffered at the hands of your ex. I'm being blunt again here because I think it's good to tell it as it is. Please don't fall for your ex's attempts at manipulation/emotional blackmail. Can you get a new SIM card for your phone and just change your phone number? Or else just turn off your phone until your exams are over.

There's mindfulness videos here that might help you deal with stress: www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/instant_mindfulness.html

There's also a website on self-compassion here that might help you to be gentle and kind to yourself: www.self-compassion.org/

Feel free to vent here whenever you like-it's good to get it off you chest!

I will try the mindfulness when I go to sleep. One of my issues has been major sleep deprivation.

I tried

-melatonine

-valium

-mirtazepine

-oxazepam

-temazepam

-all sorts of herbs

-warm milk :P

-walk before going to bed.

-alcohol (works, but emotional hangover), i'm not a heavy drinker and I don't even smoke. Nor ever tried recreational drugs.

4 more full days, and I booked a hotel before my night of the exam (which is close to uni). I can really feel a difference between 3/4 months ago and now. The intensity of my feelings and emotions is a lot lower, I have more control (which remains vague).

I remember having struggled to tell some of my friends, PTSD, out of a relationship? You joking right? Well unfortunately me and my ex were a match made in hell and she obliterated me. There has been a time where I seriously contemplated suicide (also as side effect of anti depressiva) but they are not as severe as they used to. I don't even use anti depressants anymore.

Life is seriously interesting. It's definitely NOT FAIR But I don't want to be a whiny little r*nt about that either. You have to play with the cards you have been dealt. And if that means going back completely rock bottom and restarting an entire new social life, so be it. But man oh man, do I struggle.

And the funny thing is, I hate complaining :P I always had a *stfu* attitude and just shove ur balls on the plate and get to work. Now I go boo-hoo when I hear a emotional song which reminds me of her and me? Damn :P

Oh it's unlucky that those medications haven't worked for you. I was on an anti-depressant before that gave me a great night's sleep. I think sometimes, it's trial and error getting the right medication to suit your personal needs as there's so many out there on the market.

It's great that you're willing to try the mindfulness... I found it very helpful personally in dealing with stress.

Most people don't really know anything about PTSD so it's more about lack of information than anything else. Some people might know that soldiers sometimes get it but PTSD can happen after any kind of traumatic experience.

I've had suicidal thoughts before too. If you experience suicidal thoughts again, then please seek outside help i.e. call a suicidal hotline phone number, ring your doctor and/or call emergency services. You don't have to suffer alone. Talking to someone about how you feel really does help.

It's great that you feel better now than 3/4 months ago. :)

Hi, Harm, good to see you are doing better. It sounds like you have made some positive changes in terms of both your outer life and inner life. EMDR was a great help to me. I was able to access deep emotions that I hadn't yet been able to even articulate or identify before. Keep up all that good work!


I believe the medical term for this explanation is Acute Bullo-Crappittis.   Excess prolactin can be caused by a couple of things--primarily physical ones, such as tumors--and ex-boyfriends are definitely not one of them. She is trying to blame you for things that aren't even remotely your fault, and you are letting her.  All facts get filtered through her feelings first, so if you are accepting her interpretations as truth without looking at possible alternatives, you run a risk of being grossly misinformed.

If she is not over the r/s, that is HER responsibility to fix, NOT yours. You cannot control how she responds to stress. It is her job to figure that out or ask professionals for help. Her doctors and therapists can be the ones to help her sort through everything. By her own account, she was having fertility related issues before you even came along. If you were the cure for her problems, her doctors would be writing her prescriptions for 10 mgs of Harmkrakow q.i.d. and some pharmaceutical company somewhere would be making a fortune off of you. Instead, if she is even seeing a doctor for this, they are likely prescribing her something that actually might work--as I understand it, this condition is often easily treated with medication.

You are not responsible for your exgf's fertility or lack thereof. You are not responsible for her ability to cope with breakups. You are not responsible for anyone but yourself, and that's a big enough job right now. What do you need to do to help yourself over the next few days so that you can focus on what's important?

Wishing you peace,

PF

I am still laughing over Acute Bullo-Crappittis!  |iiii

I'm curious as to what the accepted treatment is for this dreaded disease.

Truth Serum! But unfortunately it's hard to find and even if you have some the patients usually spit it out  *)

Thanks. I do feel better in comparison to my posts a few months back. Purely looking at that, I have improved! And I'm sure you remember the difficult times I were in during that period.



I need to realize that if I fail the exam. That my life is not over. But it is a hard pill to swallow if I do fail. It is not a matter of knowledge. It is a moment of being able to shine at a moment where I have million triggers to my ex (my ex has done this exam, in the same room, same teacher) and I just can't keep my head together.

If I fail, I am stuck for 6 months in a country without a job, without anything. And without the right material to get a job to my standards. There is no point in building up a life here, as New York and London are both pulling on me while at the moment I live in a little shack town called Culemborg (you could look that up :P).

My therapist is seriously scared for me sliding down again. Also because our break and now, is not even half a year yet, and considering all the nasty hit i got out of this relationship I should take more time for myself.

Precisely why it should be produced in a children's flavor.

Personally I think I spend more time on other boards because I don't have time for personal inventory. I am so caught in the drama of dealing with all that my N/BPD exH throws at me through the legal system I don't have time online to look for support on other boards. One day I will get there.

Praying for you Harm, for all needs and concerns 

I emailed my ex a 6-page letter.

No hatred. No bashing. No smearing. But also not laying myself open to much. I had no tears typing it, but felt a great relief for having sent it. I am afraid of a counter reaction but I just really needed some extra space in my head

I still feel a lot of anger and hatred towards her, and for what she (and her screwed up family) has done to me. But I convert that anger into positive energy at my therapy lessons.

I wish I believed in religion, or had a father or mother or family to cry a shoulder on. I feel disabled for having to 'lean' on the internet to vent my emotions  :'(

It does hurt.  I spent so much effort trying to get my ex to love me but he is broken.  All goes back to having a Dad that was broken and couldn't love me.  It was so painful being a little girl and not understanding why her daddy didn't love her.  I thought I was bad and no good, which was a lie, I was and am lovable.

The world is unfair at times, as you said, but look at all the posts here Harm of people that like you and care about you.  There is love dripping all over the place for you, there is good in this world.  It is good to have a place to talk about your feelings and have people that understand.    People are all broken in some aspects, some are cruel and unkind and some will love you and care about you.

My earthly father isn't capable of love but my heavenly Father loves me to pieces.  I find a lot of comfort in that, having that solid rock to stand on.  Religion is man trying to be good enough, reaching up to God.  Jesus is God reaching down to man saying, there is nothing you need to do to be good enough, I love you. 

It sounds like you are looking for a sense of community - connection.  Albeit we are faceless and nameless, we are a community and you do have some kind of connection here.  You are reaching out in a vulnerable state, laying it all on the table, and getting heart felt responses.  That is something.  :)

I do understand what you mean, though.  I struggle with the same thing, at times.  I need eyes to look into, a hug, the sound of laughter accompanied by a smile.  

I live in a big city, and although I don't feel alone, I do feel lonely, as I'm still fairly new here.  I am surrounded by people all day, everywhere I go, yet when I walk in the door of my apartment, it's just me.  I can hear my neighbors next door, and can see them walk by my window.  Still not fully alone, but I don't say 'hey, you want to hang out?.  I go out to see live music a lot - I make connections there, but only for a brief moment in time.  I talk to my friends and family by phone - no hugs, I hear their laughter, and can picture their smiles, but that is different.

I have started opening up to those around me more than I have in the past, and am starting to feel more of a connection.  I have chosen to pursue religion, but since I'm new to it, I'm finding it more of a personal thing, that although I discuss with a few select people, I have not jumped into the community aspect of it yet.  Not sure exactly why, but I do feel it has something to do with not allowing myself to be fully vulnerable yet.

So, until I'm ready to take that risk of being vulnerable again, I have moments of disconnect and loneliness.  Perhaps this is at the core of your feeling?  I don't know - just sharing my thoughts.  

Thanks for throwing your feelings on the table here. I relate.

I am looking for a sense of community, however I would not consider myself vulnerable to any sense of community where I would jump it with both feet. I do consider this from time to time a part of my life, purely for the fact that when I read so many stories, I feel so many similarity it's mind boggling from time to time.

I remember my ex telling me, that posting on the internet, on an internet community is "sick". I believed her for a long time. Still do from time to time. She was the closest what I thought was true love so of course, she tells me something I tend to believe it. Why? Simple, she was the truest thing to what I considered love and the very first thing I felt like a home.

And yes, I do get heartfelt responses here, I do appreciate that. Actually, it's the virtual shoulder I sometimes need.

I do make a (few) connections here in my new town, but they are all shallow. They don't go in depth. They remain in the field of; "Awesome band no? Awesome music no?... how was your day? Who are you? Okay, nice to have met you, have a nice day ... etc". If it is shallow, it feels pointless to me.

I do put myself to often very vulnerable on the table. I might be too naive about that, I do realize that. But I want to move on and I don't see incentives for others to hurt me. What for? Personal gain? Some misplaced feeling of being able to hurt someone? One of my problems as well as that if I don't have any feedback, or someone to speak to from time to time, everything I seem to do, doesn't seem to exist. It's like not happening because no one can see it. And not that anyone HAS to see that I do something, but to me it gives me the feeling like I don't really exist. I'm just talking in the dark again.

This leads me to my next thought which is about having a sense of purpose.  I think we talked a little about this before, but something that I am also in the midst of figuring out, and why I decided to 'check out' what religion has to offer, as it speaks to this.

The church I go to is a bible church, non-denominational, and is geared more towards those who are on the fence about religion.  It's more of an intellectual lecture hall feeling than it is a traditional church.  One recent service they played a snipet from a video of Pete Briscoe telling a story of his father who had encountered a hippie who he asked 'why do you think you're here?'.  The hippie said 'My parents told me I was an accident, the way I live my life, most likely I will die in an accident, so basically I am an accident suspended between 2 accidents.'

Pretty sad. 

I'm not saying that you need religion to have a purpose, but that having some sense of purpose can help us get through the trying moments in life.

I don't feel afraid of emotional vulnerability either. I'm aware that some people envy me for this. I had an ex boyfriend who told me that he found it hard to connect with people and he openly admitted that he thought my ability in this area was a gift. He found it very hard so it was galling for him to see me chat to people so easily... to talk about my feelings, difficult issues etc so openly. I felt bad for him but at the same time, I felt that he was trying to "dim my shine" as Tyra Banks would put it lol... .that just because he had an issue with it didn't mean that he had the right to take it away from me.

I was unimpressed with Brene Brown originally... I thought "oh this is all common sense" but then I realized "no wait... we live in an emotionally repressive society... maybe her influence will be able to make a difference on a cultural level". I think it's good that she's getting that message out there.

There's very few people that I really connect with deeply. I've had one friend that I've felt comfortable talking openly with... being really vulnerable. I think that type of friendship is rare... it's not the norm.

I actually met someone the other day that I felt instantly connected to. She was able to validate me in a very natural, effortless way. I can actually spot when people are using validation techniques and/or assertiveness techniques from a book. Probably because I've read books myself so I think "oh you're using such and such a technique right now"... it's kind of funny really... .almost like I know their "trick" really. But this woman the other day was so natural-she wasn't using any techniques/tricks at all. But I think people like this are rare.

Thanks for addressing this.

I have to let you in to something I haven't told anyone besides my therapists. I am sort of a mistake between my father and my mother. My mother was drinking, smoking (like crazy), and on a enormous sense of swallowing medicines when she was pregnant of me.

My mother got diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis before she got pregnant with me, however, there was also something mentally wrong. The multiple sclerosis also affected parts of her brain which controls the 'behavioral' stuff of a person. But, doctors said that she was already very vulnerable for personality disorders and this disease MS also made that develop quicker. My mother could just sometimes literally 'fall' on the floor, was an enormous hypochondriac, no sense of money, no listening skills. Doctors never were capable of giving her a specific personality disorder, but she lives almost since I was born in a mental institute. My mother never got further than secondary school, and my father just went one level above that. They both grew up in the rural parts of the Netherlands, meaning, on a farm... .

The family of my mother is superior strict religious and gave my father hell because he wanted to split up, and well, you are married for life. I wasn't wanted, I was leverage(!) ...

My father went through hell and forth wanting to leave my mother because she couldn't take care of herself anymore, and the family of my mother wanted him to take care of my mother (who spend all the money and didn't take care of me) and me! That destroyed him of course. Doctors and psychologists were behind my father and eventually the family agreed to put my mother in a mental hospital for the rest of her life (she still is there) so there are nurses who can take care of her. Under the contract by a lawyer that I see my mother twice a week till my 14th birthday.

Ever since I was little, at primary school, secondary school, everyone in the neighbourhood was aware of my situation, because I had a 'really strange' mother and I have been from foster parent to foster parent to foster parent (where I even have been hit by them... ) ... .No brothers, no sisters, just home alone. You know who my biggest friend was? My cat(!) Who died last christmas (where my ex told me, why on earth did you get so attached to an animal that you cry? The little animal turned 16 years old ... ) When I was in secondary school, teachers even from time to time brought me to my mother. Even when going to the later classes in school, I had teachers telling me, visit your mother. Or you will feel guilty for the rest of your life (!).

I never felt any connection with my mother. Never. I was a mistake, a pure leverage between 2 torn families in the sake of ego and pride. How am I supposed to feel? I ___ed up high school year after year, year after year. I was so bad they didn't even thought I was being able to handle going to university. I took 2 years longer than everybody at high school, and in my last year the professor told me, you are good in maths and finance, you enjoy it, i can see that. Don't stay here in the Netherlands. GO AWAY! The therapist at school agreed with me. I told my families...

They all(!) laughed at me. You? Going to university? In London in the United Kingdom? YOU WILL COME BACK CRYING(!) You failed high school 2 years in a row ... how on earth are you going to succeed in London?

I went to London, cried my guts out for 2 weeks, after that, I became a man. Sitting in the corner crying is not going to do you any good. I had to stand up for myself, and I did. It felt as a fresh start. I finished cum laude first class honours on my university degree (year after year in uni) as the best student of my studies (which was Financial Economics at the time (math/finance/economics)) Did I study like crazy for it? No, not particularly more than I did in high school, but I felt better, and thus the better grades came ... .(You think any support of my family? ... they all told me if you are so clever, how come you screwed up high school?). I did so well in London that I got asked for a internship at one of the top international firms in my industry as the ONLY intern on their entire floor. I felt on top of the world.

You knew who started clinging on me? ... My ex. She wanted to the Netherlands, pulled me along. Rejected a full time offer from my employer and moved in with her in Rotterdam. That is September 2011. We broke 'officially' March 2013. I traveled like ape sh!t for a good 2 months, had a few very strong suicidal episodes (as you remember) and finally fought myself a little bit back to where I am officially right now. I moved to a complete new place (where I don't know anyone(!)), to finish that ___ing degree and move to either New York or London to regain that career in finance. If I don't pass my exams on Monday and Tuesday my life isn't over, that is what I need to know. I don't feel mentally strong at all and my psychologist told me not to go for this yet, however my age is not in my favor, i already screwed up a Masters year at university and 2 years at high school making me older than the rest. If I fail, I have to wait till July 2014.

I am not strong at all at the moment. I cut off official contact with my family of my mother and father since Christmas 2012. I only am still in contact with my father.

It's just me. No brothers, no sisters, no family. And most of my friends are just plain hard working bankers, going across the world 24/7.

So am I sitting sometimes in the corner and blame EVERYONE around me? And do I drown from time to time in my own self-pity? YES, I do. I am sorry. I don't want to do that. But I feel physically and mentally that I can't always do everything just on my own. I don't like that though. I rather do it on my own.

I don't want to sound like an ass, but I sometimes still have the feeling, if I would be dead. At least i solved the issues of other persons. It's not that I cut myself and walk through across a railroad everyday, it's the mere thought that my existence is just nothing but a big joke to others.


I open myself up to everybody. I go to a random pub or club or anything in any country and likely within 4 hours I have told someone my entire life story.

I've been working on this too.  Humans are hardwired for connection and belonging, and we don't do well without them.  Then again, real connection requires vulnerability, which requires courage, and also time.  I'm pretty good with the courage part, I've learned that the things that really matter in life happen outside our comfort zone at first, but what I've been focusing on is building relationships slowly and having people earn the right to come inside my boundaries and see that vulnerability.  These things take time.  Blurting out a bunch of deep stuff right off the bat actually works against the forming of a bond, since it can shock people and is inappropriate.  We can spew some social commentary that we all live fast-paced, stressed out lives, but what could be more important than slowing down and building real relationships?  I just connected with how that was a factor in me getting so "close" with my BPD ex in such a hurry, it fit with the rest of my life, little did I know... .

The whole boundary thing is new to me.  I'm very accepting of people, and this people pleaser has always given hoping to get, and that doesn't work very well.  Turns out a very small percentage of the people I know and meet are willing and/or able to have the kind of relationships we're talking about here, two folks need to be on the same wavelength, have chemistry, however you want to put it.  Folks have always called me 'weird' or 'different', which I consider a compliment, since I always think for myself and march to my own drummer, but finding that real, true, deep connection has always been elusive, definitely a big factor in my susceptibility to my BPD ex. 

So anyway, a focus on boundaries is a focus shift for me.  A boundary feels like a mask, I know they're different but I'm still dabbling.  And at some point we have to take the leap of courage to be vulnerable in search of that real connection, of just be vulnerable just because.  Today's version is by focusing on boundaries to begin with, I increase my changes of choosing to be vulnerable with the right people, the people I can build deep relationships with.  Processing... .

I can relate to this so much fromheeltoheal... it's like you're describing my own internal thoughts and feelings here.

I used to blurt out stuff and that shocked people... made them think that I was a loose cannon-that I would just come out with anything... almost that I was deliberately trying to shock/provoke people when that wasn't my intention at all. I was just really outspoken... too honest. I was very fiery-would lose my temper a lot and I think people deliberately tried to troll me just to gauge my reaction. That alone made me work on my boundaries because I thought "screw this-I'm not going to be trolled like this anymore!"

I was so desperate for connection that I was trying to force it but it just doesn't work like that. Sure-I can be very charming etc but that's not actually connection... that's just... oh I don't know what that is... .It's selling myself to people/marketing myself in a certain way... it's not real. It's so easy for me to do that but I don't want to do it anymore... I'm sick and tired of it.


Urgh-I hate that whole social commentary thing that life is so hectic blah blah. I hate social media like facebook etc. I've been nagged to join facebook but I think "no-I don't want to."

It's hard for me to slow down though... I find it unbelievably hard to relax...


Yep-I think I was too accepting of people in the past. It's important to have standards/limits.


Yep-most people don't want to put the effort in.


Argh-I've been called "free spirited" and "feisty" a lot before which is basically the equivalent of "weird" or "different". Men call me "feisty" a lot because usually, women are hesitant about giving their opinions on an issue... some women act dumb around men etc. Whereas I don't. I know that's "against" the social rules... that I "should" be stroking the guy's ego but I just don't see why I should have to. And it's this type of thing that gets me labelled in the first place.

I don't think that all men are like this by any means though... it's just that I've been around a-holes really!

I had an ex-boyfriend call me "feisty" and I actually told him flat-out that it's a sexist comment-that men are never called "feisty"... that feisty is just the equivalent of a yappy dog... a derogatory term. I won my argument flat-out and he had to concede that I was right... .*) But he hated me for it... resented me for correcting him like that. The socially "correct" thing would have been to laugh it off-to say "oh haha" and perhaps engage in some banter with him. But I thought "No screw this-I'm not happy with this and that's it". There's a part of me that wants to rock the boat... that thinks "look if I'm not happy, then I'm going to speak up" but I've always been criticized for this... always. Everyone else has basically told me in one form or another to like it or lump it... to get with the program... that that's the way things are blah blah blah.

At times, I've tried to fit in and be a chameleon but I've found that to be soul destroying basically...


Yep-I feel like a sell out now... that I'm just going along with what everyone else wants from me instead of what I actually want.

I have realized that some people are just unsafe... destructive... that I need to have very firm boundaries around those people because they're ruthless.

Does it require time? I had a lot of issues with my ex and other people who believed there was 1 definition for what love is, how to make friends. There is no 1 definition for this.


You stated it well. It can be shocking. Doesn't have to be. Your stating it is inappropriate? That sounds very very definite. I couldn't disagree more. You could state it the other way around. You start slowly making a bond and make a certain picture with someone, and then he throws in the table he did drugs, or prostitution, or something very drastic. I've had cases, myself and what I heard from friends that the moment they confessed something (for example they cut themselves when they were younger) the supposedly 'bond' and friend for years didn't want to do anything with him anymore...

I'm not saying your's is right or mine is right. I think the gut feeling is more important in this case.


Whether people want to take it slow, or quickly, or somewhere in between, or even sometimes one sometimes the other, is up to them. There is no 1 way to Rome. There are millions. Slowing down has nothing to do with real relationships. Does that mean when I was working as a banker, many hours a week, with colleagues I would almost see 7 days a week, I would not be able to build a serious bond with?

Nice musicfan, something tells me we'd get along well.  To me 'feisty' is not as much sexist as it is gender-specific, the male equivalent being 'aggressive' maybe?  Or 'brash', maybe 'outspoken', guess it depends on the context, and 'passionate' probably applies to both sexes.  And of course if we go too far a woman is labelled a 'btch' and a man an 'asshle', more gender specific labels.

I wasn't talking about love Harm, I was talking about connection, I do agree that there is no one way to Rome.  My current thoughts are coming on the heels of my BPD relationship, where we were talking about extremely intimate stuff before we had built any trust, and before we got to know each other really, and that was the wrong way.  With detachment I've learned that that is standard BPD behavior, bust through the boundaries to attach, and what it seems like to me now is just an extension of what I've always done: put myself out there, express my vulnerability, naively and with complete trust frankly, expecting the other person to reciprocate, to get having given.  Wrong.  

I think it might have been you who said another tact is to let all your boundaries down quickly and let fly, making an easy way to see who can stay in your life and who must go.  I consider that valuable with existing relationships and have actually been using it, so thank you.

The right way for me is to build a relationship, with anyone mind you, not just romantic relationships, with my boundaries intact, looking for mutual trust and mutual respect first, and as that's getting built, each of us letting our boundaries down slowly, as deeper connections get built, never losing the trust and respect.  There is no 'right' pace for that, it depends on  the situation and the folks involved, but for me it is much slower, with a focus on boundaries, than I've done in the past.

@fromheeltoheal

Yes that was me. I lowered all my boundaries, let everyone in, and the ones I don't like, i scare away hihi 

Interesting point you wrote about trust. After my debacle with my BPD ex, trust, actual trust, flew through the window. I only believe in incentives not to hurt other people and on the basis of that, when I believe there is no incentive to lie, there is trust. Not the other way around.


Note to self, don't SEND letters. Dammit. I just got a reply back. I am one helluva idiot. Why do I keep doing it? I again got devaluated SO quickly in just a few words  lol.

Yes.  There are lots of ways to avoid feeling and healing: numbing, running, working, rescuing, yadda.  I spent plenty of time in my youth numbing with intoxicants, then later I discovered if I ran very fast, literally and figuratively, I could outrun my emotions, and work was always a good place to hide, as I made someone else rich.  So the answer is none of the above.  The answer is to stop and feel, don't think but feel, don't run but stop and just BE with myself.  It's hard, but it feels like whatever's on the other side will be a better life.  I actually thank my BPD for paining me to this insight.


Me too, so there we go: the key I think is to live authentically, maintain strong boundaries, let them down for the right people, remove the rest.  Brand new project I never really focused on before, baby steps, but it's already getting good.  The answers were found upon exposure to a serious mental illness.  Who woulda thunk.

I highlighted this last bit: "paining me to this insight". I know exactly what you mean there. I had a bad experience a few years ago (not my BPD ex) and that made me re-evaluate everything... myself, other people, my life. I think that the demise of my relationship with my BPD ex made me pause and reflect again but not to the same extent. I had read about domestic violence before so I knew that my BPD ex was just emotionally abusive-that definitely took the sting out of it... to realize that it wasn't my fault... that it wasn't about me... it was his problem.


I think that you have a good attitude fromheeltoheal. What has helped you to heal? Therapy? Self-Reflection? Meditation? You seem really calm and centered... you don't strike me as angry or bitter and that's good. I heard this story about this woman whose husband had been murdered and they were asking her about how she was coping with her loss and she said "you can either get bitter or better". That quote has always stayed in my head. I thought "wow-that is really true... "

Thanks musicfan, it's been a journey.  I left her about 14 months ago, she's tried to contact me a few times, but done was done, I'd had enough, and this site and my anger helped me stay away.  I've heard the stages of detachment are like the stages of grief, and I went through denial for a few months, then a shtload of anger, not so much at her but at everything in general, she kind of uncorked years of repressed anger apparently.  Then a period of depression where I couldn't work, got physically sick, had zero energy, and lately, I'd say the last couple months, I've had a bunch of acceptance, I don't think about her very often, and the whole thing feels very distant and long ago.  I'd say I've detached.

But when I do think of her once in a while it's a pleasant thought, I honestly hope she's doing well, and I have compassion for her; she's 1700 miles away, so there's no chance of 'running into' her.  But the biggest thing, and to address your question, I really feel like I've grown a whole lot, motivated by pain once again, although things feel very different and strangely a lot better than before my relationship with her.  I've gotten very good at standing up for myself and don't take sht from anyone anymore, I have direction, I'm spending time with women and instead of trying to figure out who I need to be to be attractive to them, old, well-rehearsed behavior, I'm wondering if and how they're going to meet MY needs.  Babe.

I've done a lot of personal development over the decades, although knowing what to do and doing what you know are two different things, but I got really motivated, and have mostly been looking at any disempowering beliefs I hold and working on reframing them; Brene Brown's books on shame and vulnerability have helped with the reframe quite a bit.  And then the usual: eat right, exercise daily, and get enough sleep, my life always goes better when I get those three in order.  Anyway, rambling, but you're right, you either get bitter or you get better, bigger still, attitude is a choice, and one of the few things we can control.  Take care of you.

You're welcome fromheeltoheal :) Don't worry-you're not rambling at all. I feel a lot stronger now too... more self-assured and assertive. I haven't read Brene Brown's books however I found a really good interview she did on youtube with a guy called Jonathan Fields. It's very informal... they're both sitting on couches and just having a chat. It's nice because you can tell that they're getting on well and it seems a more natural setting really.

Once my divorce was final, I think that I too needed to "get away" from dealing with the BPD (although this has been difficult as exBPDh has visitation with our daughter).  Reading the posts on the site hit too close to home for a short time. 

I'm only a couple of months out from divorce now, but feel like I can start to think about my future for the first time in a very long time. Currently reading "Spiritually Healthy Divorce", which is a great book regardless of how "spiritual" you are.

Perhaps the board is less busy because when we begin to work on ourselves, one of two things occurs:

1. Avoidance- it's a lot of work and sometimes painful to take an introspective look; especially when we have not been the focus of our own lives for so long.

2. We learn to give ourselves time.  I don't have the urgency of wanting "out" anymore, and am learning to be patient with myself.  I was in an unhealthy relationship for 22 years, so it's okay if I take awhile to recenter!

i think it is maybe scary or challenging or maybe its just not easy to focus on ourselves... .

for me, it's kinda like the same reason i would stay with my ex - she was a problem that i could work on while ignoring my own problems... .

i also think people are at different stages of their recovery, i know what helped me the most inthe beginning was being able to relate to others and their stories and learn what was going on... .it took a big step (probably forced myself too) to start working on myself... .

in the end, i dont think its important if the personal inventory board is busy or not. i dont know if it has much to do with my progress. people have their own methods of self-improvement, thought haven't ideas and guidance is also helpful... .

I took a second job. It seems like all I ever do is work now, but it keeps my mind on the present instead of the past.

The leaving board was front and center for me as I felt like I was in a life crisis getting past the r/s with my pwBPD. Now that I am more than a year out from it... recovered enough that I am back to living and functioning somewhat normally. Have been re-evaluating my life, taking inventory and so forth. Learned a lot, but its not compelling like the crisis was.

Taking inventory, ... for me Its a bummer ... .I am finding that my issues go back to FOO and early attachment, and the prognosis for great change isn't good... its my personality set with 50 plus years of reinforcement... .but at least I understand far more about why I am like I am. Sure doesn't make me talkative like the leaving board did.

I can relate charred, thanks for this.  I too am in my fifties and have been out of my relationship more than a year, and my life is somewhat back to "normal" as well. 

Although I don't have the push that I did when I was in crisis management mode, things do feel different, and I have motivation and a direction I didn't have before I met her, feels like I woke up.  My personality is pretty solidified too, and I'm OK with that, I like myself for the most part, and for me it's a matter of focus.  I do want to create a legendary relationship, I'm capable of it, and focusing on what makes one great and what direction I need to head is the piece that was missing before I met her.  When it was good with her it was really good, and although that was unsustainable, the right one will be; may we all create our bliss.

I don't think you can create a legendary relationship... as I don't think there is such a thing as a relationship... there is relating, and its a verb and its what we do all the time. You can be present and involved and enjoying the person you are with and that seems to be the key to making things work. When we take an ongoing process and turn it in to a static thing... I think we are stepping away from being involved in it.  I was with my ex for 22 yrs and some of the time it worked... when I was present/involved. Early on, I was still reeling from the first go round with my pwBPD... and was preoccupied with it... and the relating with my wife didn't work well. After years together, it was routine, and boring (both for her and me)... and I wanted excitement... but wasn't staying present and the relating suffered. My exBPDgf came back on the scene and like a Genie's horrible wish... I had excitement... .and devastation.

In general, when you are present and in the moment, life is good, and when you are disassociated/disconnected and not present... .people around you know it and are put off a bit, and whether you are in the past or future... .you are missing out on the present.

Was so many years from when I was single before till now... .that my options are less than ideal.  I like younger gals, they look great, but honestly... they want younger guys, or money... and relating based on $$ is a non-starter for me. Leaning toward getting back with ex... but finally am comfortable being alone... now my daughter wants to live with me... so I have to figure out what I a doing. The only for sure thing... .not getting back with my exBPDgf... .and getting to the point that I know I am not... has taken decades... I wanted to be with her, thought she was the one... .and she was toxic for me.

Moving on is hard, I think for years I was going through motions and passing time and the pwBPD slapped me back awake and I have to get back in to living... better late than never, but not a lot of people in the same spot... .I hope anyway.

The early exciting thing about the r/s with a pwBPD was sex... and attention. Thinking back, no one else seemed to concentrate so much attention on me for so long... and the question I should have asked but didn't was; "WHY?"... and clearly it related to something she needed... not anything wonderful about me. Years later I finally ask that question. Was working out of town and had a temporary manager who was striking, and interested... others on the project said she was nuts... I felt sparks... and asked questions and dealt with her on my terms... .and that "real interest" she had quickly did a 180. Comments about how wonderful I was at my job... once I actually tried to share some of what I did with her... .actually got her to put her fingers in her ears, stand up and leave... .almost involuntarily... .it was bizarre. Without any idea of what I did she could not honestly judge whether I did it well or not... .and I no longer am so needy for affirmation that I would take it from someone that was blowing smoke. So... the thought of sex with her was enticing... .but spending a little time around her and finding out she was on divorce number 3 and had issues with everyone she had dated or married... .kind of brought me back to my senses gently. She moved on, I moved on, and I am sure we are both better for it.

So... whats that got to do with inventory? I have had to re-evaluate a lot, and I think that years of wonderful day to day interactions with people you love outweighs the super charged intense attraction/sex with pwBPD... .maybe not on day 1 or day 30... but the long steady relating wins the race. Being with a genuine person that is with you through thick and thin, good and bad, sickness and health... is real different from being with someone that says you are their soul mate, who sleeps with other guys or girls when you are not around, who goes from building you up to tearing you down. I will take real women over good dream/bad nightmare woman anytime.

From all my research ... .the way to true happiness is gardening... .and I dismissed that as hooey... .just like the thought that I had issues going back to my FOO, or that my dreamgirl was a bit phoney/immature.   May be putting out plants next spring.

Call me crazy (she certainly did), but I still believe in a relationship; there's me, there's her, and there's this entity between us called a relationship that is a place we go to get grounded, recharged, empowered, validated.  Not the only place mind you, but a reliable one, and relationships take work and require maintenance, but if it's as valuable as we want, it's worth it.

I too got a strong buzz from my borderline, so strong I got caught up in the emotion for a period and got irrational.  Although that feels very good, very alive, it is also unsustainable and self-destructive, not unlike the feelings I used to get from alcohol, pot, cocaine, thrill seeking, all the popular buzzes.

As I've detached I've looked very hard at that, the side of me that mistook that buzz for love, love being something that is sustainable and empowering, and yes, sprinkled with exciting periods, but also full of contentment and belonging, which isn't usually all that exciting, but accepting it doesn't mean settling.  

Maybe there will be a site one day called Borderline Anonymous, a 12-step program of recovery from that pathology.  I'd be a candidate.

I just saw a Face Book page for Borderlines today. It was an interesting read of posts. Most Borderlines there are aware of how bad they act, and they hate their own behavior but can't control it. Pity there isn't an easy cure for that personality disorder.

PM me for this one please? 

Just go to Facebook and search for "borderline"; there are a lot of them.

Wow, I didn't know there were so many of them.

I think I was looking through the www.facebook.com/borderline.personality.disorder.community one

Very different vibe over there.  Feels like you're reading the disorder and its challenges in the flesh.  Not sure I like it.