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Currently my wife and I are in the process of a legal separation (not divorced) and live 7 hours apart.  We started a six month trial separation in September (so we are just starting Month 4) with the promise of not seeing anyone, not dating, focusing on the relationship and seeing if we can repair things and reassess the situation after 6 months. 

Here's a link to my story:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=216871.0

I have found out that she has been with 8 different men since moving out (yeah, I was the nice guy who was up for 24 hours straight moving everything, assembling furniture, the works) and she has been lying through her teeth.  It's almost comical at this point at the many lies and excuses she's told.  (My phone died, I had to work late, I was sick, couldn't talk because there was a power outage, and on and on) Sadly, I've been with her sexually during this period of time too when she or I have visited because I believed her when she said there hadn't been others.  Yuck.

My question is: do I confront her?  It will be WWIII.  And if so, how?  I'm ashamed to say it but I'm terrified of how this confrontation could go.  I have confronted cheating and emotional affairs in the past and it has ended BADLY (see my sotry linked above) with rages and everything turned around on me.  We are still in contact (as we were supposed to try and work on the relationship) but I have decided to cut way back starting yesterday.

Any thoughts, tips?  It's so pathetic that I am afraid of this confrontation when SHE'S lying and cheating and completely in the wrong.  But that's the sad truth of the matter.  My backbone disappeared long ago. 

Hi SeekingAdviceinCa,

*welcome*

I read your back story, and I'm really sorry about the revelations of infidelity and separation from your wife.  You have been through a lot, and it's very understandable to be fearful of a confrontation. 

Tell us more, Seeking.  What goal are you shooting for with this confrontation?  Are you hoping to reconcile with your wife, knowing that this behavior may continue indefinitely as long as she isn't getting help for her issues?

It's so normal to be filled with conflicting emotions, this is a really difficult situation.  Keep posting and we'll support you as best we can. 

heart

Well even during a trial seperation she violated your trust.

You cannot trust her at all.

This is strictly my opinion but if I were in your shoes this would lead me to file. How dare she continue to do this to you?

You deserve better!

Even in your email I can sense you are afraid of this woman.  She is emasculating and cruel. She is in the wrong, not you and yet you are fearing her retribution on calling her out on her violation of your verbal agreement... .

which is understandable... . I have been there.

You need to make the decision for yourself to stay or leave this relationship. If you decide to stay you need to accept the committment of marriage holds no sanctity in this woman's eyes. Do not expect her to change.

She cannot.

Don't. She will flip it back on you with severity.

Thank you so much HeartandWhole and Pretty Woman, sincerely.

I had wanted to reconcile with her and try to work this out, but her demand is that we have children, immediately.  And she says that we can't work any of these other issues of the relationship out without first starting to try for a baby.  (Which I've always felt is WRONG)  She says I'm the one who has broken her trust and she doesn't know how she can trust me with her heart because I've moved back times to start trying for a baby (Well, yes, this is true simply because even when I'd throw out a date to try for a baby, things wouldn't really change in the relationship!  That's the whole point as to why I've hesitated, things aren't good or they aren't good for sustainable periods, and I didn't feel comfortable bringing a baby into that mix).

As it stands, today... . she is a total and disgusting liar.  And a cheater many times over.  I feel so used and violated.  But at the same time, I feel like I need to confront her for the closure?  I don't know.  Maybe it isn't worth it.  I'm afraid of the retribution and what she'd try to do to smear me.  (She's already done this to friends).  

Trust is destroyed.  It was destroyed long ago and I kept hanging on trying to resurrect a relationship I thought was worth saving.  I think her actions the past 4 months and my other discoveries prove this is not the person I thought she was.  

Ironman-

Agreed.  She is masterful at turning things around.  You should have witnessed the time I confronted her about the emotional affair - epic.  (She still to this day says it wasn't an emotional affair.  That she's just a flirty person and that leads her to say things that are inappropriate.  For years.  Riiighht.  I guess that's why after the whole confrontation she justified still talking to him.  And even months later I read an email from her to him, after an email of him saying "I was just one of the many dumb guys who hit on you."  She wrote "Oh (guy's name) you're the exception... . to just about everything... . for you I have wished, and will forever wish for a time machine... . ) 

Keep in mind, she's demanding kids from me during all of this.  It's why I felt like a sperm donor.

Wish I could say something that would help... . but it may not be what you want to hear. Wanting "closure"... is generally futile, you are most likely to get denials, though you might get an admission... but genuine remorse or a truly heartfelt apology is very unlikely.

The closest thing to closure is understanding the disorder and how it carries the day... . and when you are ready moving on.

Compared to many of us you sound pretty composed for what you have been through. My exBPDgf had 2 guys she slept with that I know of... she had 2 STD's that I know of... was engaged 7 times, married twice and asked me to marry her twice. I spent over 20 years pining for her, thinking how much different my life would be if I had been with her... we had planned on having kids and everything... . then I got her back. WOW was I wrong to be upset about losing her... . had I understood the first time that she was disordered... and just how bad... never would have been a second time... . would have saved me a divorce, losing a job and 1/2 my stuff... . and a second giant ego hit.

It hurts being disillusioned... . but you can work through it. I feel for the people on the staying board that have decided to stay in a BPD r/s and have been in it for 20 or 30 yrs... . the stories are heartbreaking. I used to think I was cursed for losing my GF years ago... . now I know it was a blessing. She has a kid and I feel for him... . but am so thankful I didn't stay with her long enough to have kids. The roughest stories are the ones with BPD breakups with kids involved. Its rough on everyone and the kids force it to go on for many years.

Severe cheating is hard to take... . (been there)... but from what you said it was not your illusionary "dream girl"... . that cheated on you, it was the girl you are realizing is disordered and just does that.

Trust isn't destroyed... . its impossible under the circumstances... . fixing her problem is very unlikely, work on forgiving yourself and working through the issues.

Seeking,

Your gut is telling you that a reconciliation and baby is a bad idea.  I think this is your self-preservation kicking in.  It's been a long road and you deserve a relationship that honors who you are and what you value.  You don't have to settle for anything less.

I agree that confrontation for the sake of closure could backfire and cause you more pain.  :)o you really need another mind-twisting head trip that leaves you confused and feeling guilty?  

Your wife doesn't have any other way to cope right now – this is her maladaptive way of coping and self-preservation.  It's not personal, it's what she knows to do, to avoid the pain and shame of the effects of her actions.

Trust yourself.  

If you know what's been happening, what's the purpose of confronting? Sounds like you know this is what she does. Even if -- best case scenario  after confronting, though unlikely -- she concedes & promises it won't happen again, would you be able to believe/rely on that?

Seems to me what makes sense is to conclude this is what she does, & decide if you would want to stay assuming this is always what will go on.

Hard stuff. I'm so sorry this is the situation you're having to deal with.

Your own words. My friend, there is nothing to do but move forward. Without her. I know how hard this is. I know it sucks. Take what you know and move on. I've lost complete track of the BPD ex. I have no idea at all what she's doing. Who she's sleeping with. Anything about her. We split up almost a year ago. No contact since August. She is nine of my business and I am none of hers. It really sucked. I still give her too much free rent in my head. It's getting easier but I'm still processing. Interaction with her will only prolong my suffering. These kinds of relationships are poison to us and that is exactly how they should be treated. You seem to know this but you wonder if there is a chance. Ask yourself what would need to change. Ask your self what you can change and what you can't. It's a decision and you don't want to throw away all those years and investments that YOU put into it. Understandable. Your choices will determine how long and hard your suffering is.

Heart and Whole -

I'm tending to agree with you and others.  Confronting her at this point will probably lead to another enormous mind blowing disaster and only cause me more protracted pain.

My gut has strongly told me having a baby with her wasn't the right thing to do.  I have listened to that all along (and have been severely punished by her for it) but I know I was doing the right thing.

And you are right.  I want a relationship that is built on honor, respect, devotion, building one another up, admiration, trust, compassion.  

Patient and Clear and Perdify -

Excellent excellent points.  I've confronted cheating before and look at the continued patterns.  If this is just who she is... . I'll be dead with a heart attack before I'm 40.  I just can't take the suspicions and doubts.  And she is a MASTERFUL liar.  I've really seen it play out the past several weeks.  It's astonishing. 

I think, starting yesterday, I've entering into the detaching phase.  Trying to let go.  It's brutally hard but my head needs to win this battle over my heart that wants to keep trying.

I don't trust this person.  Don't feel respected.  Don't feel all my efforts are returned in kind.  This marriage is not a healthy place to be.  And I need to be healthy for me.

  This line says it all. If you know you can't trust her, then deep down, you know you will never trust her and where there's no trust, there's no chance of a genuine loving relationship. You are to be commended for giving it your best shot (staying faithful during the trial separation, giving it every chance of working) but if you don't already have children, don't have one with her now.

  I learned from experience with my uBPDxgf that being a mother does nothing to reduce promiscuity. It just creates more victims - the kids. Time to draw that line in the sand, friend.  

Free n Clear -

Thank you.  I agree.  Trust has been broken so many times, and really if I think about it, she never made much effort to rebuild any of it.  I think in her mind it was "my" problem to deal with, not something she had to deal with.

I know I was making the right decision to not have a child with her, despite how much drama this caused. 

I think part of her promiscuity is that she was heavier when she was younger.  Like 50lbs heavier when we first started dating.  She's lost a lot of weight and as a result has gained a lot of attention.  Wait... . STOP making excuses for her!  Caught myself!  :)

SAC, how did you discover that she has been cheating on you during this trial separation?

Has the legal separation been finalized? 

What is your current thinking about the future of the legal status of the relationship?  In other words, are you considering moving toward a divorce? 

Winston,

Let's just say I have proof that's undeniable and unequivocal.  I'll leave it at that.   

Legal separation is not finalized yet.  We are trying to make it uncontested and do a marriage settlement agreement to avoid additional costs and make this easier.  Which is why I can't confront her about anything because I don't want an eruption in my face.

I am definitely considering moving forward with a divorce filing, yes.  It has all been just way too much.  Her thing is she wants a baby, now.  I just don't feel like I am there or the relationship is there (or ever will be there for that matter) for me to feel comfortable with that.  I shouldn't stand in her way if she wants to be a mother so badly.  According to her, my refusal to have children ruined our marriage.  If you read my back story, I have a few things to add to that.  ha

  |iiii Well done. Making excuses for them is an easy trap to fall into, because despite everything, we love them.   I spent so long excusing/forgiving her behaviour (including infidelity) "because it's not her fault, it's the BPD". In the end, the more we forgive them, the less respect they have for us as they perceive it as a weakness when it's actually a strength of our characters. We deserve better.

Thanks, SAC. 

As others have already said so well, the primary goal is to pursue a course of action that is best for you, emotionally and practically.  In response to the heading of this post, the questions of how or why you might confront her belong within the broader context of the overall relationship and what you want to see happen.  Defining your self interest and pursuing it is the best way forward, and it seems like you are gaining clarity on what that is.

Hi SA, my personal experience is that when you start paying more attention to the baby, their abandonment fears get triggered. Mine left me for basically a kid compared to me, after the stresses of the second child (I won't even go into the other BPD-like bahaviors exhibited as we formed a family and I stupidly agreed to have another, whom I love to death, btw, don't get me wrong... . )

I get all the responsibility; she gets to play, then fill the role of "good mom" for her family and society on the outside. That's me. There are other stories around here far worse... .

Turkish-

That was always my concern about starting a family.  What would happen if we did?  I saw all these struggles and all these difficulties with just her and I. What would adding one or two kids to the mix do? 

What I've learned is that they need to blame something (and that's usually us) for what's wrong in their lives.  And why they aren't happy. 

Mine demanded a baby and marriage before the end all say all. We DO have a son (8) already. What u can expect from a mother like this is Triangulation (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=121673.0) with ur OWN child, denying u access to do things with ur own child, talking bad about u to ur child, and infantalizing the child so he/she NEVER leaves their mommy. Do u want that? Oh, and by the way, she left for a narcissistic eternal bachelor that is 10 years older than her that will never give her marriage or a child... . go figure, huh?

arn131:  That was always my fear.  Would the craziness be applied to a baby?  Would my kids see this behavior and then learn it's normal?  Would she continue to cheat even with kids in the picture.  Uh, no thanks. 

She has spoken badly about me to my own friend's wives (after one of the first times meeting them!)... . I could definitely see that happening to our children.  Which is horrifying to me!  I couldn't imagine the mother of my children saying the kinds of things she's said about me to my own kids.    That is a line I would not cross.  Marriage should be about lifting your partner up, honoring one another and the commitment you made.  It's not supposed to be like what I've experienced (even though there have been good points along the way, there's always that proverbial shoe waiting to drop). 

My situation isn't as heartbreaking as yours... . but mine "fixed" herself over a year ago after D1 (I knew something was up with that at the time, but didn't know how to draw her out to talk). She got what she wanted out of me: children, and a father for them. Now she can play for the rest of her life with no risk of pregnancy (though plenty of risk for other things, the foolish girl), while alternating between dutiful mom for her family. I hope to heck you can get access to you daughter more... .

Yes, it would.


They would definitely see it and be affected by it. Whether they came to see it as normal would depend very much on the nonBPD parent, ie: you.


You'd better believe it. My uBPDxgf has 4 kids in total. The eldest one chose to continue living with her step-mum following the death of her father (what's that tell you?). She even refused to allow her mum to attend her recent wedding. The next eldest, now 16, lives with his Dad, (about 3 hours drive away) and had no contact with her for years until I came along and made a concerted effort to reconnect her with him and her mother and brothers. Seemed to work for a while, but now that we're over, she's stopped seeing them again. The two youngest kids, 8 & 5, who are from the r/s prior to ours, live with their Dad*, and while she has regular contact with them, and even volunteers at their school canteen, she'll go weeks at a time without seeing them when she's busy with her latest conquest (or on a drinking binge). I've known these youngest two all their lives, and they love me more genuinely than she ever did. It breaks my heart to know they'll end up just as estranged from her as the two older ones.

 *When I say their Dad, I mean their presumed Dad. The 5yo actually looks very much like another guy that I now know she slept with while in that r/s. (which raises another point; if you did have a child together, you'd always be wondering whether he/she was really yours.)

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, dude. DO NOT get her pregnant.

LOL! No denying mine... . he looks just like me but smaller! But she probably did do the math with calender in hand and figured out it was me. She came to my buddy's restaurant in hysterics bc she was pregnant. Sad thing, I had mentioned to her that I was done. Couldnt be with someone who broke up with me hited someone else and told me it was ok bc we were broken up. I stayed 8 more years... . there's the O in FOG!

mine justified it the same way.  She said we were done,  but she had already started an emotional affair.  continued to live in my house ( this was August),  ran to the other guy. I  found evidence of dune tour of physical affair.  tried to work it out,  she agreed like she was,  but still carried on when I caught her again.  October  and November were hell on me.  had to set all sorts of boundaries,  like I was a father to her besotted  teen.  still carrying on,  but it's not in my face. I  hope she tries a recycle later so I can laugh in hers.  no one deserves this you're off abuse.  no one.

Had she been sleeping with your buddy, or did she go there to see you? They seem to have no problem with sleeping with your so-called friends, if my experience is anything to go by. 

No, my buddy's are great. NONE of us would do that to each other. We all graduated HS together. Same fantasy football league for 23 years. My buddy bought food from a vendor that hited her, that's how I know about it. She said she had only been with 3 guys in her life. She slept w me on the 1st date then this vendor of food was the 3rd. Now "joe" millionaire is her 4th, also on the 1st date. I'm beginning to wonder if all that's needed is a grilled chicken salad to hit her... . it's a shame and the truth is, it's probably way more than 4! Sad really

     The first time we slept together, my xgf also said I was only her 4th lover. She was 37 years old!   As you can see from my previous post, she'd had 4 kids to (allegedly only) 3 guys by then. I didn't laugh out loud at the time, but it wasn't easy. And that was before I knew how promiscuous she really was!  We dated for a few weeks before sleeping together.

         As it turned out she cheated on me with at least 4 other guys in the two years we were together. Guess she must've been making up for lost time.

RUN, RUN AWAY, you know what you need to do! You are in grave danger of getting captured by her, do you want your kids around this !

Got that right.  Friends, neighbors, acquaintances and whomever they happened to meet that gave them attention.   

Disgusting

So this is really an attention thing more than an attraction thing. I showered her with a TON of attention always.  I pretty much devoted my life to her. No matter how much attention I could muster for her it would never be enough huh?

That's right because you were already CONQUERED!  No more thrill.  It's all in the chase and the drive for control.  She didn't have to work to get your attention so you were now shuffled off to the side.  But God help you if you weren't readily available when SHE needed you to be.  I say this not to bring you down but because I went through the same thing.  When I first started to see my therapist to try and make sense out of this mess, one of the hardest things I had to come to grips with was that her actions were almost solely based on her NEED for attention.  I had such a hard time with that because we were applying that to a 42 year old woman (at the time) and mother, NOT a child.  And the more I learned about BPD, the more I accepted that the child is exactly what we're dealing with.  An emotionally stunted 3 year old but working it through an adult body with adult consequences.

Something else I learned was that at least in my exwBPD case, she's attracted to narcissists, BIG time.  There's a lot of information out there about the NPD/BPD relationship and their attraction to each other and why.  I'm very thankful I'm not either of those things because I have two kids and they needed me to be their stability point.  I have found that I'm better at being able to deal with both of those disorders now but I absolutely detest NPD's.   

Thank you. That makes a lot of sense - the conquest. I'd say once we were married, she didn't really feel the need to chase after me or work for the relationship. Yeah, she would do nice things, don't get me wrong, but I never felt the level that I put in was ever matched or reciprocated by her. (but she would make excuses as to why this was my fault).

I could only imagine that once we would have had a baby I'd be pushed to the side even more. I'm so glad I listened to my gut on that.

I totally can relate to the emotional child in an adult body. I'd often say to my therapist that I had a teenage daughter emotionally and not a wife. 

Can I say something brutal?

If you do have kids you'll have to have a DNA test. How does that feel? Feel like working through her 'issues'.

Get some balls and get out. You are being eaten alive and offering to salt yourself for her. You CAN save someone, he was once a vulnerable child, save him, before you bring another boy into the world and have to save him.

This is possibly the most important moment in your life, you are in danger, many lives can be saved, real lives. Yours and YOUR children, you want this demons hands on your/another guys kids.

Love to you, do the right thing

Seekingadvice

Do you really want to continue with her? She's not a teenage girl. She's only a 3 year old for god sake!

One disordered person coupled with another disordered person. Hurt will be left in the wake of that. My ex too was attracted to narcissists(based on how she described her previous exes) and then I came along. The total opposite.

Add to the list of her cheating:

She cheated on me with the ex boyfriend she broke up with in order to start dating me... . for several months! 

Hey SAC... . it is nice to hear from you in this and your other posts recently.  Glad you are doing well. 

I think your strategy to "keep the peace" until the final settlement/dissolution agreement is finalized is sensible and wise.  You are not "hiding" issues from her... . they are her behaviors! 

As to how you handle your awareness of her affairs... . that has a few more layers.  What is best for you in the long term?  For me, I needed to let me ex know that I knew and I also wanted to know more fully what she did.  This was good for me because I have a tendency to avoid pain and to not hold people accountable for how they hurt me.  I think other people might find it better to just wash their hands of it all and move on.  There is not one way to handle such a thing.  The key is awareness of what you need, a sense of fidelity to your own values and approach to life, and just what provides for a better sense of yourself. 

One thing that comes to my mind is that you have been a bit opaque about how you have confirmed her affairs.  If you are going to seek some honesty from her, or at least shining the light of truth on her you might be prepared to let her know how you found out.