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Title: What do you do when you just don't feel like validating? Post by: Chosen on March 12, 2014, 08:34:20 PM uBPDh was in an insecure/ irritable/ triggering mood last night. Right before bed (as always), he suddenly brought up, for the millionth time in our relationship, how I don't love him, don't respect him. Then when I didn't respond he was like "you can always leave me, you know".
On a good day I'd validate and ask what makes him think so, but last night I just couldn't. I felt angry and couldn't be bothered. I also knew what he was going to say, that me asking would lead to him to list out all the things I do that he doesn't like... . and I just needed a break from that. So basically, I threw his comments back at him (calmly, though), and just said "it's you who seem to want to leave. I don't want to." Then he kept on asking "are you upset? you don't sound happy." I just said "I'm not upset. I want to sleep." Then I ignored him. I know that ignoring = invalidating to the pwBPD, but how could I better handle that? I just wasn't able to validate at that moment, and if I had to continue the conversation (I was tired and just feeling blah) I knew I'd snap. What would you have done? Would you have pushed yourself to validate anyway, or would you do anything else? Thanks! Title: Re: What do you do when you just don't feel like validating? Post by: MissyM on March 12, 2014, 08:57:11 PM I think we have to give ourselves a break. Sounds like you handled it as well as you could, under the circumstances. If we are constantly giving and not taking care of ourselves, we just burn out. It doesn't sound like you said anything harsh or cruel. How were things this morning?
Title: Re: What do you do when you just don't feel like validating? Post by: Grey Kitty on March 12, 2014, 10:15:32 PM Better to just assert your boundaries at a time like that.
Trying to validate requires me to be on the top of my emotional game / mental state. And doing it halfway is at least as bad as not even trying, often worse... . while being a lot more work for me. I'm guessing that he got quiet fairly soon after you said that you wanted to sleep. If not, the only suggestion I'd have would be to consider sleeping elsewhere in peace (sofa, guest bed, etc.) Title: Re: What do you do when you just don't feel like validating? Post by: Chosen on March 12, 2014, 11:44:02 PM Trying to validate requires me to be on the top of my emotional game / mental state. And doing it halfway is at least as bad as not even trying, often worse... . while being a lot more work for me. I'm guessing that he got quiet fairly soon after you said that you wanted to sleep. Exactly, Grey Kitty. I need to be emotionally stable at least (if not in top shape) before I can give prolonged validation. And trouble is, I have come across this scenario enough times to know that it will NOT be one of those "one question, one answer" type validation conversation. It will be dragged out and I'm not able to do so at that point. After I said I wanted to sleep, he kept asking me if I was upset. I know this is a way to engage me into "discussion" (if obviously if I were upset I would be "wrong", so I just said I'm not, but I'm sleepy. And then he said "you're not upset but are you happy", and I said I am happy... . whatever to stop the conversation... . and THEN he shut up. It's hard not to be dragged in but I think I did ok, considering my mental state (tired, irritable). Title: Re: What do you do when you just don't feel like validating? Post by: an0ught on March 15, 2014, 09:36:35 AM Hi Chosen,
uBPDh was in an insecure/ irritable/ triggering mood last night. Right before bed (as always), he suddenly brought up, for the millionth time in our relationship, how I don't love him, don't respect him. Then when I didn't respond he was like "you can always leave me, you know". On a good day I'd validate and ask what makes him think so, but last night I just couldn't. I felt angry and couldn't be bothered. I also knew what he was going to say, that me asking would lead to him to list out all the things I do that he doesn't like... . and I just needed a break from that. So basically, I threw his comments back at him (calmly, though), and just said "it's you who seem to want to leave. I don't want to." Then he kept on asking "are you upset? you don't sound happy." I just said "I'm not upset. I want to sleep." Then I ignored him. I know that ignoring = invalidating to the pwBPD, but how could I better handle that? I just wasn't able to validate at that moment, and if I had to continue the conversation (I was tired and just feeling blah) I knew I'd snap. What would you have done? Would you have pushed yourself to validate anyway, or would you do anything else? Thanks! just want to add to the sage advice of the Grey cat. With validation and boundaries it is important to aim for perfection. It is a skill. While at the military we were trained to take apart our rife in the dark so we could do it in our sleep. I doubt use case that represented normal operation. The point you want to do it really well is that you can do it somehow when under pressure. Survival is the name of the game. So how do you measure up to that? I would say you survived - you got some sleep and avoided WWIII. Could you have done better on the validation front? Let's measure your response looking at the different types of validation: Stay Awake [... . removed stuff for this quote... . ] To help with visualizing how to properly use validation, Marsha Linehan, PhD (the developer of Dialectical Behavioral Therapy) has broken validation down into its key components. Stay Awake At its most basic, all you really have to do is listen and nod. Staying awake requires you to pay attention and ask objective, probing questions - basically that you demonstrate that you're paying attention to the person who is talking. Lean forward, nod your head, ask questions, and show you are paying attention. Warning: It's critical not to be judgmental about what the person is saying to you. Judgements are forms of criticism, that you view something as "wrong" or "bad". A pwBPD can often see the changes in our faces when we have judgmental thoughts. To avoid judgements you need to pay complete attention to what they are saying. It's called being mindful. Pay attention to facts to help prevent you from forming an opinion or evaluating (judging). Accurate Reflection Accurate reflection requires you to communicate that you've heard the person accurately. This can be done by repeating what the person said, though it can be better to paraphrase so you don't sound like a parrot. This communicates to the person that what he is experiencing is universal enough for you "to get it", a critical part since most pwBPD feel so misunderstood by others. It shows that you are listening to what they are saying. Stating the Unarticulated This is a form of mind reading. It requires you to create a hypothesis about what you believe the person is "not" telling you. The emotions driving a persons words or actions. The hidden message. You do this by asking a question, essentially guessing if "blank" is accurate. Example: This works especially when the person is dysregulated and not expressing themselves clearly. You have to be willing to be wrong though, which shows that you haven't quite got it yet, so then ask more questions to reach understanding. Validating in Terms of Personal History or Biology We are what's happened in our lives. On some level, based on our history, our actions make sense. If you ever lived through a tornado, you would have a higher response to the warning sirens than others, based on your history. Letting a person know that their behavior makes sense based on their past experiences shows understanding. Our physical problems also impact (thus explain) how we behave. A person who has a bad back has difficulty sitting for long periods of time. Making reference to their limitations shows understanding and empathy. Normalizing One of the most important levels is to communicate that others (those without BPD) would have the same response. People with BPD have the ongoing experience of being different - outsiders in their own worlds. When you normalize what they are feeling you find a way to communicate that what is going on for the pwBPD is the experience of being human, that anyone in the same situation would feel the same way. This is powerful. Some key phrases that can be used are: "We all have moments when we feel that way" "Of course you think that: anyone would in your situation" "I would feel that way too" "You know that is such a normal reaction" "It makes sense that you did that. We all have those moments" Of course, there are some things you can't normalize, such as suicidal behavior. Don't normalize behavior that is not normal - that's validating the invalid. Radical Genuineness The key to all validation is to be genuine. To be radically genuine is to ensure that you don't "fragilize", condescend, or talk down to the person you are trying to validate. You don't want to treat them any differently than you would anyone else in a similar situation. They aren't fragile, and to treat them as such can be seen as condescending. Stay Awake - B - enough to give a targeted response and handle the push back Accurate Reflection - A - exactly hitting his fear of abandonment at the core of him bringing it up Stating the Unarticulated - A - you staying and him neither trusting you nor himself Validating in Terms of Personal History or Biology - A - pointing back to his history of doing so Normalizing - n/a Radical Genuineness - A+ - You got an issue. I'm too tired to handle it. Considering that the B grade is due to biological limitations you suffered from - being sleepy - I would say you were doing excellent. Following up the validation with a boundary - limiting the effort you put into filling his inner hole - was wise - you had little energy to spare. In the end he needs to overcome his own fears and you can only point the way. Babying him will just hold him back in the toddler stage. And the latter is little worrying. How comfortable are you with boundaries? They are often necessary, related to respect and healthy if handled intelligently with compassion. Boundaries also do help him forcing him to become independent. You were not ignoring him - you listened in an appropriate manner and treated him as an adult. But then you felt uncomfortable... . Title: Re: What do you do when you just don't feel like validating? Post by: Chosen on March 16, 2014, 11:09:13 PM Thanks an0ught for the super-detailed analysis for my actions!
I'm definitely NOT at the point yet when validating comes at a second nature to me. I cannot put together my rifle in the dark. I need to be concentrating super hard or my rifle goes wrong. That's the point I'm at now, so validation for me is something that takes a lot of strength and consciousness to do, unfortunately. I guess if it was something that happened when we were awake, when I could say all those stuff then go and do my own thing, or speak to him about something else, then I would feel more natural. But now it almost seems like I'm using sleep as an excuse not to talk to him. Yes, I was sleepy, but there were also days when an extra few more minutes didn't hurt. But I know that when he starts those things before we sleep, it's not good to get it started or else we both won't be sleeping. So I did the second best (to me at that moment) and afterwards I keep on thinking "was it the best"? Yeah I know I'm probably overthinking it too much... . |