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What do you crave as a nonBPD? Obviously, we all have needs and wants, some of which our BPDs are capable of giving, but also there may be many of these needs and wants that are unfulfilled due to their inability for whatever reasons.

I crave companionship, kindness, love, sincerity, and respect. All of these things are a part of my nature, and they are done so unconditionally. I see each person as a world within himself or herself who deserves these things. I have done so personally and professionally with no artificiality and without any ulterior intentions whatsoever.

Due to my BPDw's inability to share these like qualities, I could easily venture forth into infidelity, but that would only result in more problems. So, when I interact with individuals who value these human and humane aspects of life that connect all of us, I almost begin to cry, because they validate the importance of being on this Earth for one another, and my BPDw is unable at this point in time due to her issues and wanting to be alone.

Sure, we can all read the lessons here, practice them with our BPDs in order to hopefully restore some sense of humanity in their and our personal lives. Yet, the process or should I say the long process to do this can be very tiring with many ups and downs.

So, I repeat. What do you crave as a nonBPD? In turn, how do you fulfill these cravings?

I guess I can also include being read. You see, I have written and published 4 books and a 5th one that is being considered now. Incidentally, my BPDw was asked today by a fellow employee about my books. My BPDw laughingly replied to that person and to me that she hasn't read a single one of them. BTW, I started writing and publishing 4 years ago.

sincere and genuine care/support from another person. respect for my boundaries, and unconditional love.

Hi Samuel S. That question is one that I have been working on in the SWOE workbook for almost a month. The exercise is, "Pretend that your BP/non-BP relationship doesn't exist and some God or spiritual being has given you the opportunity to design your own SO. What are the ideal qualities you would like in a person fulfilling that role?" This exercise has allowed a deep lake of grief to swell within me. It's a long list ... .up to 49 qualities and I keep putting it down and picking it up again. Funny you mention being read. I am a writer, too, and casual singer/musician. She rarely reads my writing, and is sort of like "hmmm" when she does. She's threatened when I sing or play music because she feels like I stop seeing her. I knew those things were off when they happened early in our relationship. I just didn't listen to the warning bells. Why would anyone ever not want to enjoy singing along to music? - I was even singing in tune. 

I guess mostly, I would really just like to be allowed to exist happily and have someone rejoice in that happiness instead of tearing it down. Of all the harms, that one is the hardest one to let go of. Not just the lack of being rejoiced in, but the enmity and malice directed towards my happiness, my S9's happiness. I will never emotionally understand that, even if logically I can understand it within the context of BPD.

I miss respect and trust the most I think. She said herself during our last talk that she does not trust me. Kindness is high on my list as well. I wouldn't say today that she is kind, I would have said it early in our relationship.

Peace.  Order.  Wisdom. 

I am working on this by being mindful (paying attention to what is really going on here and watching out for myself and my sons), guarding my thoughts and immediately replacing negative ones with some kind of solution for the better, noticing whether things are in or out of order and doing something it about however I can,  reading some verses in Proverbs every day, and thinking like a CEO instead of like a slave to someone else's emotions. 

Trust, acceptance, companionship, understanding.

Lack of those ingredients mean I'm single in a rubbish relationship... .Getting hungrier as time passes, but growing as a person and detaching from the push pull.

Its funny that you mention your BPD partner doesn't acknowledge your interests. 

It is jealousy. Mine was so jealous of my paintings that he would pour things on them (usually beer) "accidentally" of course. Same thing with favorite clothing; gee, how did those big bleach spots get on that? "accidentally" of course.

I accidentally divorced him, of course.

Peace and quiet.  When she screams, she SCREAMS, and I still have ringing in my ears a few days later.  But even when she is not screaming, she can't go 15 minutes without calling to me from across the house.  No reason, just to see if I am still there. 

I "cope" with this by making the most of my time when she isn't around.  Go for walks by myself, find a quiet corner of my building to sit at work, and getting up before her in the morning.  It doesn't quite give me what I need, but I did come from a place of living alone for most of my adult life, and peace and quiet I took for granted. 

Also, I crave having relaxed, natural conversations and not having to double-think my words.  Doesn't matter what we talk about, but I would like to just be able to have a conversation about anything where we trust that we love each other and respect each other.  The kind of conversations I have had with my friends for years.  With BPD fiancé, it sometimes happens like this, but if she is in an "irritable" mood (that's 80% of the time) it doesn't matter if we talk about art or music or the weather, she will always have some kind of negative remark.  I can bring up how something a family member did that bothered me, and she can't just listen, she has to have in her judgment about that person or my reaction to that person. 

I "cope" with this issue by trying to strengthen my friendships and family relationships, and get those needs met elsewhere.

ditto on thicker skin... .Trust, acceptance, companionship, understanding.

ditto on Maxsterling's post

I would love a relationship with my grown kids without the mental agony I endure from my wife

Double thinking before I say anything. My estranged family she hates. Serving God as my heart sees fit, not a religous nazi.

Ditto on maxsterling's post too.  I crave a life in which no one screams – or curses - at me.   

I missed shared responsibility and effort, and being part of a team, rather than just being the support person. It makes it harder to maintain motivation.

What a good question... .I miss being able to talk with someone openly and honestly, and reveal my weaknesses, troubles, desires, etc., without the fear of retribution.  I miss compliments and tenderness to me absent a motive.  I miss living with my guard down.  I crave a relationship that is more consistent, that doesn't threaten me or set me up with loaded questions.  I am weary of being the caregiver and continually filling a pitcher that has a hole in it, while I am parched for even a sip.  I crave "adult" conversation, honest discussion, and exchange, and someone to initiate tenderness.  I crave someone that appreciates my parents and all they have done, and who doesn't spew filth about these sweet people (and me of course)... .

This!  I have to be the everything.  Emotional ROCK! Provider, housekeeper, chef, dog walker and to top it all she told me a couple of days ago that because I'm older I must take care of her.  I am 36 and she is 34 

No team here.

Sometimes, when I read these posts, read what I have written about the qualities I desire in my RS, it is such unspoken, buried longing within so many of us. It's like george2 says, that feeling of thirsting for even a drop. It seems a dangerous way to exist. I mean it's important to not skirt the feelings that are there. But maybe we could ask what can I give to myself today? I just keep feeling that the more I can give to myself, when that thirst lessens, I won't be in so much pain for what I don't receive from my spouse.

I think everything posted on this thread is me. I appreciate the honesty and courage you all have to be here and speak my/your story so eloquently. Today, I am going to appreciate myself for having the courage to be here, too, to not be afraid to look, and somewhere, to know that I have all that I need.  

All of our responses are so heartfelt and so needed. All of us truly have tried our best to fill our own cravings on account of not being able to have those qualities that I presume that we all had with our BPDs at first. Yes, they probably were able to fill our cravings at first, but now, their true colors are being shown, and we non BPDs need to step up to the plate to take care of our own cravings on the outside of our relationships. Like one of you said, "I am weary of being the caregiver and continually filling a pitcher that has a hole in it, while I am parched for even a sip". Indeed, it is a sad realization in which we do our best to make the best of it usually without our BPDs.

In my particular situation, just last night, my BPDw came back from work about 9 PM. The first thing she asked was if I were going to go to bed without even looking at me. I said no. Before she took her shower, she asked me the same thing, and I gave her the same reply. Her D17 came back from a coastal trip yesterday afternoon. I asked her if she had a good time. She said yes while never looking at me. In fact, her back was turned to me, and she never looked at me for the rest of the evening. Yet, when she talked to her mother, she was supposedly all happy and so expressive. Like mother, like daughter!

Frankly, I wonder if our BPDs are really happy! Under our circumstances, it is no wonder we do our best to find the happiness we seek from outside due to not being able to have our cravings, our happiness, filled inside our own homes. 

Well, my year and a half experience with my dBPD fiancé suggests she doesn't know what happiness is or feels like, and never has.  I get the feeling that there are always negative thoughts in her mind, always has a "the world is out to get me" attitude, and is always searching for ulterior motives.  Happiness is a relative emotion for her.  I don't think there are ever moments where she is just out in nature appreciating the beauty.  She never has a moment of being with someone she cares about and just feels happy to be in that person's presence.  She never thinks back to a childhood memory and smiles. Maybe she has short moments of happiness every now and then, but I think much of her life she isn't happy to be alive.  And she pretty much vocalizes this. What a sad way to live. 

But she's also a pwBPD who pretty clearly meets 9/9 criteria, has also been diagnosed PTSD, and could probably also be diagnosed with severe chronic depression.   My dBPD SIL seems to have a much milder case of BPD, and I have actually seen her happy many times. 

Perhaps we should start another thread about what cravings are met being with a BPD partner.  It would be a much harder list, but inevitably we all have cravings that *are* being met.

The word NORMAL comes to mind... .its sad... I know normal in a relationship... .and miss it... .

Peace and sharing a positive out look on life. Life with SO is all about negativity and how the whole world is a bad place.

I miss Interdependence, the ability to share life with another on equal terms, to love and be loved without preconditions.

I used to want to be the strong provider, to be in control and as a I get older I have realised how much I have missed by taking on this role.

It is never too late and by practising my awareness and acceptance maybe I might just make my latter years the best of my life

Good topic.  The three things I crave most are:

1) For uBPDw to be on my side instead of always looking for/inventing reasons to attack me, to give me the benefit of the doubt the way I do for her;

2) Positivity: for uBPDw to see the glass as half-full instead of empty or broken and unrepairable; and

3) For uBPDw to be a positive influence on our young children instead of a negative one.  I'm concerned that in spite of my best efforts, my wife's behaviors are harming our kids.

I could come up with more, but those are the top 3.

A good and challenging topic. When I am with my bf I sometimes imagine in my head how I would like things to be.

I would like to be able to laugh and joke together, without their being an edge or tension. I would like him to be pleased rather than jealous when things go well for me. I would like to be able to go out and just have fun and not be anxious about how things might go wrong. I would like to know I have his love and kindness. I would like him to be positive and not always critical and looking for fault in everything.

It is amazing how much we all crave the positive aspects of a relationship essentially from our negative BPDs, and they cannot do so due to their own unhappiness!

Seeing that I have loved movies so very much, I am reminded of two movies that deal with the negativity that our BPDs exhibit: "Scrooge" and "What's So Bad About Feeling Good?" Yeah, I know I am dating myself, but "Scrooge" exemplifies the BPD. The only difference is he changes for the better. Even the second movie dealt with very oppressive aspects of life, but even then, people focus on the better things in life.

In both of these movies, the negativity changed to the positive. Of course, these wishes give hope. Our BPDs only continue to express their negativity. It's like they live a never ending story of negativity.

In my own situation, I try to tolerate my BPDw's negativity when she is around, but it sure does wear me down! The only way that I raise myself emotionally is by giving to others, because I believe where there is life, there is hope. I have given free workshops to families, organizations, and schools. I also teach and tutor part-time. I also write books. If I didn't do these things, I wouldn't be posting. I would not be alive.

So, how do you not get yourself involved in their negativity, seeing that they can't or won't change? If you can share this with us, perhaps, you can help all of us. Thank you!

I'm new here, and this is only my second post, so I hope you don't mind me replying.

I miss so much in my relationship with my BPD wife.

I find myself craving intimacy.  I miss holding a woman in my bed and having her head on my chest.  My wife liked no touch at all when we shared a bed (it's been about 5 years of me sleeping on the couch).  I remember times that I laid next to her and my body felt like it was exploding from lack of touch.  I would work up the courage to put my hand on her arm and she would become very angry.  In fact, there was a time that she was still angry at me when I got home from work the next night over touching her.

I crave hugging.

I crave love.

I crave hearing from someone that cares about me and asking me how my day is going.

I crave sharing my hopes and dreams with someone.

I crave sharing my burdens with someone.

I crave a break, I want to be carefree, if even for a weekend.  I am just on edge all of the time.

Lastly, I crave a relationship where I am more important than her cell phone.

Oh, and I crave laughter.

My wife and I never laugh together.

If I make a joke, she gets angry, I can't figure it out.

I laugh and joke with people all day long.  But, she just gets mad.

I miss just genuine happiness and joy.

Samuel S., are you saying if I can just get a few ghosts to visit uBPDw, I have a chance ... .? 

I was struck by your post (well all of these posts) because I, too, feel better no matter what hard situation I find myself in by giving to others. It's kind of a form of escapism from my own mental duress. The Dalai Lama calls it enlightened self interest, and I think there's a lot of truth in that. It doesn't take much to look around you and see someone who is in worse shape than you are, that maybe by giving to them, you can ease their suffering as well as your own a bit. But I think sometimes I use that in an altruistic way to avoid being with my own suffering.

It's a dance. The more I pull away from my unhappiness in my RS, the more my unhappiness chases me down and finds me. Everything changes in every moment, so why do I run from something that I know will change within mere moments?


I think the answer here is by maintaining infinite receptivity to what is going on within yourself at that moment pwBPD is venting/dysregulating/projecting, staying with the feeling rather than closing it off, and giving love to yourself in compassion for what you experience, and maybe, gradually opening that giving to others like you going through that experience, and eventually giving to those that are triggering that experience. I know from the few times that I have done this, something within me changes. When I fill myself with loving kindness, even during the torrential rainfall of verbal abuse and negativity that can come from my partner, the words pass around me and not through me, and I have a sense of how many people have endured humiliation, shame, manipulation, criticism, being made to feel small, and my heart opens more. Times like those, I can see my wife more clearly, and rather than want to run away from her, or fight back, or just endure her, I actually just love her, in all her suffering and imperfection. That said, it's a type of mindfulness that I can not do that well or that often, but it does help when I make the choice to do it.

I hope this helps. Truly, my heart is being opened by these posts. Thank you and please keep writing. 

Well, I asked my BPDw that seeing she likes to go to different places, if she would like to go to Angel Island in the middle of the San Francisco Bay today. Her response was that she has too much studying to do and that she hasn't had much time to study due to working. First of all, she hasn't been taking classes during the summer. Secondly, even if it is true that she wants to study, she does have tomorrow off and part of Monday off. Thirdly, she has been reviewing all summer long. So, she has had ample time to study. Going out of town for the day to enjoy and to hike in nature would be good for the both of us. Also, some time ago, I mentioned about Muir Woods just north of San Francisco, and she was all excited to go. A couple of weeks later when I suggested about making the time to go, she said no.

Since her response is no now, I am going today. This is my craving being fulfilled! It is so sad that she is this way. She truly is a "bah, humbug" type of person, only too happy to be unhappy. Also, I think she is obsessed with her studies so that she does not have time to have quality time with me or anyone else. BTW, her birthday is this month. Her sister asked about getting together tomorrow due to her birthday and due to the fact her sister said that she misses her sister. Again, my BPDw said no.

So, I don't take my BPDw's negativity personally, but she is losing out. Maybe and only maybe, she doesn't want close ties and times due to having lost her child 15 years ago who was only 7 1/2. That is understandable, but why keep people at a distance who are alive and vibrant, unless she truly wants to be alone most of the time and doesn't want to experience more losses from being close to someone? Well, she is getting her wish, if this is the case. I'm off and going to have a great time in nature and post photos on Facebook with all of my friends and relatives!   

It was such a freeing day just to enjoy nature and to be sore from walking and hiking 5 miles around Angel Island in the middle of the San Francisco Bay. I didn't have to care about anything related to my BPDw. I was able to be myself and to enjoy it all. Also, I posted a lot of photos on Facebook.

When I got back to reality namely with my BPDw, she asked how the day was, which was nice of her, and I appreciated that. Yet, she complained about having to cook most of the day and not having time to do things for herself.

After having had a great weekend without my BPDw except for minor talk in the mornings, I went on a hike on an island yesterday and saw a very good movie. So, all of that was very self-fulfilling; however, the person whom I would have loved to share all of this with, namely my BPDw, was self-absorbed in her own work. It would have been nice to have quality time with her. I offered it to her, but she said she needed more time to study. I guess her studying is more important than I am.   :'(

Samuel, I have to admit to feeling sad when I read some of your posts and that my feelings of sadness (for you), prompt me into wanting to make it better for you.  Even though it's not my place.  That's my own codependency in action, or is it empathy?  I'm not quite sure what to do other than to offer what has helped me, since this is a self-help forum. 

So much of how I feel about things is because I look at them a certain way.  People get into relationships for all kinds of reasons and I would bet that when 2 people come together it's for different reasons-- all couples.  We stay together for entirely different reasons.  We are separate people.  Individuals.  We each have our own must-haves to feel good, as well as things that are no-ways.  It's part of what makes us us.  Hopefully somewhere in the middle we find some common ground.

To say that her studying is more important than you are is a pretty loaded statement, which can cause all kinds of yucky feelings of not being important enough.  Studying is important to her.  Hiking and movies are important to you.  They are separate things. 

Accepting that studying is important to her, that it's a must-have for her, separate from you, might help to shed some of the feelings of not being important enough that your experiencing.  Studying is her gig.

I realize that we often suggest inviting our SO's to do things with us, so that they don't feel abandoned.  I don't agree with that in all instances.  Would I like for mine to enjoy going to a certain friend's annual barbeque?  Sure, that would be great!  Have I asked him in the past?  Yep.  Has he turned the offer down?  Yep.  Do I continue to ask him?  Nope.  He's not interested in attending and I have to respect that.  I don't have to like it, but I also don't have to feel bad or make him feel bad for not wanting to go, or for having to tell me for the umpteenth time that he's not interested.  I accept that he's not interested.  Does it mean that I'm not important enough to him?  Nope, not at all.  It simply means that he's not interested and would prefer to spend his time doing something other than that.  Carry on... .  While I enjoy my friend's barbeque.  It's okay. 

If I were to hold a lot of value in him wanting to attend the barbeque with me, while he flat out doesn't want to go, I'd probably feel really bad.  I would probably act from that feeling really bad place.  I might ask him again and again to go with me, hoping for a different answer, perpetuating the feeling bad icky's.  Shoot, I've lived it!

It's important to respect and accept their decisions, all the while making our choices rooted in our values.

This isn't easy.  It's a process.

 

Samuel I feel sad for you that a lovely weekend seems to be spoiled by how you feel about not sharing that time together.

Try to just enjoy those things for yourself as they obviously give you a lift and make you feel good. I know it is really hard not to let all the negativity get to you, even when it isn't about you it still has the power to bring a good mood down. Therefore it is doubly important that you go out and enjoy the things you love. I too use walking to find peace walking in nature.

Are there other people you can share these things with instead? Sometimes I find I am so emeshed in my bf's world, his fallings out with others, his crisis of faith, his ill health, his regrets, his disappointments that I too start to feel down and negative which is not my nature. I have some very silly girl mates who make me laugh loads about the most stupid things, they can lift my mood in seconds. I also have a friend from church who will spend time with me doing some of the things I love without the negativity. It helps me to have positive people around to balance things out and stops me getting lost in a small world of negativity created by my bf.

123Phoebe and Sugarilly, thank you for your feedback to my recent posts.

Yes, each person deserves to pursue his or her goals, whether they are in a committed relationship or not. A counselor friend of mine called it being self-full. Each of us does that to one degree or another so that they themselves will feel happier. That is all very totally understandable and frankly needed. So, there's nothing there to disagree with.

On the other hand, while the above is important, if a relationship, be it a friendship, courtship, or marriage is important to make that step to say that someone on a personal level is important to you, then, that means something. That means putting effort into the relationship so that while you can have your own individual goals, there are couple goals of happiness together, love together, respect together, and consideration for one another.

It is finding that balance of achieving one's own goals and having a meaningful relationship. Otherwise, why even bother being in a relationship at all?

My BPDw told me a long time ago that she and her now D17 are the best thing that ever happened to me, that they love and respect me, that my first family never loved and respected me, that they used me. Then, over time, she eroded what she herself said. In fact, she had been highly verbally abusive for a long time. Now that she is finding what she wants in life to change professions, she is being neglectful, and she freely admits that she has gone from one extreme to another.

So, yes, I do enjoy my friends, my other relatives, my trips, my teaching, my tutoring, my workshops, and my writing. Yet, I have done these things out of not having what was promised by her. Even if everything were fine between us, my marriage is my top priority for them and for me.

Someone on this website and even a counselor said that she might be seeing someone else, that I should be on the lookout for that. Who knows? All I know is that she was so totally convincing beforehand that she was the right one and my other wife who passed away from cancer was not. Now, she is acting like my first wife.

To be FREE AND AT PEACE... .out from underneath the "dark cloud"... .and from under almost constant disapproval... .to not have to answer to an unhealthy demand upon everything to do with my own existence... .

What is the value of a relationship, if there is no relationship? Why even have one when being apart is the norm instead of the exception? The relationship is healthy, if there is interaction, even when there are TIMES of separation. It is unhealthy when there is minimal interaction. Sure, it is important to have individual interests, because we are individuals. To be continuously apart is unhealthy. I am not demanding or expecting at all. I respect her need to improve herself. She does not respect our relationship. So, can you be at peace and free in my situation? Trust me! The only way I am even remotely free and at peace is now when I am away due to not being free and at peace in my home. At least, I can interact with others.

I agree wholeheartedly that a meaningful relationship is important, no doubt about it.  And that both have the other's best interest at heart for it to be meaningful.  I wouldn't be in the relationship if I couldn't feel his love.  BPD behaviors and all, I feel it.

I'm going to ask you a serious question, Samuel...

Can you feel your wife's love?

Wow, 123Phoebe, that is a loaded question! I feel her love only sporadically, when she kisses me lightly in the morning and at night, when she sometimes hugs me when she needs understanding and validation, and when she prepares my meals. She told me some time ago that the only way she can express her love to me is by preparing meals for me. Sadly, I think that's about it. 

Really good question, actually.

I want to chime in with 123Phoebe…that how we frame or ‘think’ about our situation can make it seem just unbearably yucky…or just part of an imperfect relationship…as all relationships are.


This is very interesting.  If I understand this correctly…you both felt your family of origin never loved or respected you and just used you.  This is some pretty heavy stuff.  And, in the earlier part of your r/s she implied an understanding of this and sort of gave a promise of being different…that she would always love and respect you unlike your family of origin.  But she has gone in an opposite direction…actually neglecting you…similar to your Family of Origin. 

One of the really big TRAPS we get into…is the fantasy that our partner(s) is going to be able to make-up for us the absence or losses we had in childhood.  They can’t…and so…it’s always going to sour…b/c they can’t do that for us.

If you felt used or neglected in childhood…if you have core wounds…as most human beings do…we often develop certain fantasy expectations about the perfect love that will eventually make it all better as adults.

That ends up begin a trap…b/c no one can really fix that for us.  As long as we have that expectation…we will forever be disappointed with others…esp. others who naively or for their own ‘core wound’ reasons believe that they can somehow fix that for us.  And the resentment builds. 

A really, really good book is How to Be An Adult in Relationships by David Richo.  I just listed to a talk by him…and he made the point that a partner can only reasonably be expected to meet up to 25% of our needs at anytime, when we expect more than that it causes problems…and he joked that when he came up with that number…he was feeling especially generous, it’s really probably less.  As children, we need a lot to grow. A lot.   If we didn’t get it as kids from a primary caretaker…we keep looking for it in our relationships.  But, we only get one childhood. And, as adults, we are designed to get our needs met by many many different people and through  many different channels…not just ‘the one’.  THE ONE is a fantasy.

Of course, balance has to be struck as you say…and maybe that balance is really not there at all in your r/s…I don’t know.

or…maybe it was your first family, eg. first marriage that was unsatisfactory and not your family of origin?   Not able to tell from your post which it is…

though I would still want to offer…our partner’s can’t make up for our past.

In any event…your post and the feedback you have gotten on this thread has been very insightful and interesting.


Thank you.

Indeed, my parents argued quite a bit, affecting me negatively at first, but I was able to get over that with counseling eventually. In fact, I became a teacher to help kids. As for my first marriage, yes, she was aloof and with her share of problems. I did see a counselor during that time and even sometimes with her.

In both of these situations, I realized that it was a question of them having the issues big time. I wasn't an angel, but I most certainly did not have the issues they had.

So, for my current marriage, I do not seek some ideal of a marriage, because it does not exist. My BPDw has significant issues (physical and emotional abuse by her mother and having lost her 7 1/2 year old daughter to a mosquito bite) which she is getting "therapy" from someone who is a "medium" who has significant issues similar to my BPDw.

I am realistic enough to know that I can't have our marriage my way, nor can she. It just is! I repeat, though, that I respect her need to pursue a second career, which she is doing with her studies. Yet, with this obsessively current focus and with so many other focuses within the last six years or so, she continues to make our marriage secondary. She makes it quite the opposite of what she professed it to be some ten years ago, which she freely admits. So, this marriage is in a state of imbalance.

I am adult enough to know that I am adult. BTW, in order to get out of being intimate with me completely, my BPDw said that she felt like a daughter to me. This was about five years ago. So, it sounds like she should be reading that book you recommend. Oh, wait a minute! She can't, because she is too busy! So, while she pursues her professional goals and while she gets really minimal "support" from that "medium", our marriage is abandoned almost entirely. BTW, we haven't gone out on a date or a dinner in years!

Samuel it sounds like you are hurting a lot and really want to spend some time with your wife doing something which you both enjoy. Of course that is not unreasonable. However, you do need to look after yourself and as you did at the weekend make sure you don't miss out on the things you love.

My bf doesn't cause this kind of problem as he is usually good about going and doing things, it is the negativity when we are out that is at issue. However my dad is just like your wife and I have watched my mum cope with this for a long time. When they both retired she had dreams of holidays away, walks and days out - they materialized for less than a year and then only with excessive nagging. Once my dad is out he enjoys himself, but getting him away from his busy daily routine (he writes and researches historical football books and loves the TV) is hard work. For a few years mum was miserable suggesting ideas and watching him reject them for the most flimsy reasons or worse having him agree only to back out at the last minute. Now she just does her own thing and is much happier for it. She has a daily walk with her friend and her dogs and plans her own days out. Occasionally he will ask to come. It has been difficult for her to accept, more because she feels sorry that he misses out on things.

One of things that has worked for her is not inviting him to something specific, but instead asking when he has some free time, then planning to do something. So today for the first time ages they are off for a day out to some gardens. Could you do things differently and instead of inviting your wife to join you on something ask when she will be free or have more time, then plan something?

Ditto to both of these!

Love this! I need to have this mindset as well... .I am absolutely AMAZED at how much inner destruction just ONE COMMENT from a BPD significant other causes to the deepest part of my being... ."Thinking like a CEO instead of a slave to someone else's emotions" is a WONDERFUL IDEA! Thank you for sharing!

I was just thinking about this yesterday... .and feeling bad that I may simply want to be out from underneath THE NEGATIVITY... .AND TO BE LIVING IN A POSITIVE ATMOSPHERE... .simply put.  Am I horrible for wanting this, possibly at the expense of a marriage?

Welcome to the message board... .thank you for sharing... .I'm sorry you are experiencing the pain that you are... .

Just wanted to say I can definitely relate... .especially with these particular points... .  my uBPDh spends most of his free time with his face in a mobster game on his phone... .and the constant having to be on edge is very very difficult... .my mind automatically pre-thinks the bad reaction that he is going to have in pretty much any/all situations... .not fun... .

Accentuating the positive is very important, because there is so much to be grateful in this world! I am basically a positive person along with being realistic. When my BPDw is negative like her sister wanting to see her, my BPDw will make some sort of negative comment. I said to her that while I understand her need for alone time, I did say that it was very sweet and loving for her sister to reach out to her. My BPDw said a mild yeah, you're right. When it comes to me being overjoyed about something, she hardly even acknowledges it. I know I can't get feedback from her, but I am really happy about my accomplishments. I want to share. When she wants to share which is mostly negative things, I have to stop everything to give her my undivided attention. Yeah, it is not fair, but that is how she is. I give her my attention out of love, care, respect, and support. On the other hand, she does the same minimally, if at all.

Bottom line, I crave an equal relationship, but I don't see that happening. Hmm, I wonder if it will ever be that when I die, if she can say she really knows me. Probably and sadly not!

I crave kindness, understanding, an unconditional love, and not to constantly be under pressure to "please" my husband.

I am a good person.  I do good things and usually put others before myself.  My husband is the only one who cannot see that.  I know he knows these things about me, but his sickness stops him from realizing that I am really just a good person and would be good to him if I could get it in return.  Instead I live my life under pressure to make him happy all the time even though he lives his life to abuse me all the time.

Lilhurt, my heart aches with you! Please, please do something kind for yourself each day! You are worth it!

Last night, my wife revealed a lot of what is going on with her, and it makes sense. Having lost a 7 1/2 year old daughter to a mosquito bite just over 15 years ago is rough on anyone, and she has dealt with all kinds of traditional and non-traditional therapies ever since.

The 2nd reason for her lack of attention to us as a couple is that her D17 is going with her biological father and his family on a week vacation tomorrow for a week. This is all well and good; however, 1st, her biological father and his new wife got married on my BPDw's birthday 6 years ago. My BPDw never got over that and even complained to him about that, but he said that was the only date available to get married in the church they wanted to get married in.

Another consequence is that her D17 will not be here to celebrate with my BPDw. So, that's a bummer.

The last, big "thump", if you will, is that her D17 is going off to college about an hour away from here in October.

I listened. I validated. I said that maybe, if she would be interested, that she and I could go out to dinner on her birthday, but she is not in the mood for it. I know, that if her D17 were here, that would have been considered.

So, I understand my BPDw's actions for this time. While all of the above makes sense, this is just another reason and justification as to why she acts the way she does. Whether it is all of the above, studies, focusing on everything and everyone else except for us, it all turns out to be the same. She will remain by herself and not focus on the reason that she and I are together presumably.

I have not and will not force or demand that she puts more attention onto our relationship, and I do put my attention on her when she wants my attention, but that's the point. The loss of her 1st daughter, not having her 2nd daughter around are both losses. Frankly, I am realistic to know that I will die 1st, and she will have another reason to act and to react the way she does. What she does not realize is that she is losing another relationship right now: us!

In the meantime, I focus on everything and everyone, but always putting her 1st, when and if she wants me.

What do I crave?

I crave someone that will take care of me the way my mother did. To serve me a nice meal when I walk in the house. To show that she is so happy I came in.

I crave someone that I can have a good conversation with. Or at least someone that shows interest in my ideas and thoughts. Or at least someone that respects me for them.

I crave love, warm, someone that will smile when I walk in and kiss when I walk out.

Since all of this doesn't seem to come through so fast... .so I crave a quite day, with no fights and peace and calmness.

Will I get even that? Depends on the wave of today.

Joshbjoshb, yeah, that would be ideal in an ideal world!

Today, I really had a bad start. I flubbed. I made a mistake. I was quiet as I could be. I made my own breakfast nice and quietly, because my BPDw was going to work late. Yeah, I should have just stayed in my own room, but I thought I would be quiet enough. Apparently, I wasn't.

So, after breakfast, I left, worked out, and did some errands.

When I returned, she was up and started getting on my case about how she could hear every single movement I made, that I woke her up, and that she felt really grumpy.

Under the circumstances, I validated what she said, and I apologized, because I was wrong. Then, she continued saying how wrong I was, that I should have had "common courtesy" to let her sleep. I knew I could have really started a big argument, because she has not shown by her example to exhibit "common courtesy" with me over the years literally! So, I just let her talk it out.

Once she was done, I left the room, got ready, and left to do tutoring all day.

Now, she is back from work like nothing ever happened.

Frankly, I felt like crap until I got into the mode of tutoring. If I hadn't done tutoring today, I would have been a mental case, because I felt like crap for not pleasing her and for being wrong. Of course, she didn't help matters, but of course, she will make a mountain out of a mole hill, even if I profusely apologize. That is why I am very careful in what I say and in what I do. She is an angry person, and I feel I am always on guard!

Samuel S:

I think you are trying too hard. I think I've been trying too hard. I've learned a lot of good things on here, but I think it's possible to overdo some things. My Mom has told me I'm trying too hard, and that my uBPDh doesn't appreciate it, and it gets me nowhere. She is right. My Mom is 79 years old, and has been married to my Dad for almost 60 years. I give her advice a lot of merit. She wants our marriage to work out, but even she is seeing the hopelessness of all my effort, and the fact that uBPDh isn't seeking help. His psychologist referred him to a psychiatrist, but he's putting it off. He also went off the antipsychotic medication that his family doctor put him on. His doctor flat out told him that he is dealing with a "mental health issue". His rages are scary.

I have noticed that when I stop trying so hard, it does usually enact a change in uBPDh. He usually starts being a little nicer, or saying he'll do better(which of course doesn't happen). But at least, I've stopped killing myself trying, at least temporarily. The problem is that I keep falling back into that pattern, because I just really want us to work out. And I feel a great deal of compassion for him. He must be just miserable to be as angry and mean as he is. He calls me negative, but I'm really not, I'm just honest and realistic. He however, is very negative about ME, and our marriage. It's constant, and it's wearing. He has a skewed perspective about so many things, it's like he is living it a strange alter type world where he sees things the way he wants them to be. Which seems to be a world where he and his kids are perfect, and do no wrong, and I'm the big, bad meanie, out to destroy the world. It's sort of funny when I think of it like that.

Oh, and by the way, I'm a huge movie buff too. I don't know how I missed seeing that one movie you mentioned, and I certainly hope you were referring to the version of "Scrooge" that had Bill Murray. Someday I'm going to grow up and become that fairy who kicks people in the nuts. 

You know you guys are sort of writing the blue print of a healthy relationship when you put together the things you all crave.   

:)

SS, you summed up my life.  She could wake me up in the middle of the night because she heard a noise for years on end.  Of course I was working two jobs and sleep deprived as it was. 

If I made any noises while I was up and she was sleeping she would get so angry.  If I touched her arm in bed and she woke up she would be mad at me the entire next day.

I can feel the tension in my gut because I am so cautious not to upset the applecart by making the slightest mistake.

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