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Today I got an eye opener and I do believe it is the most hurtful thing my ex BPD has ever said to me.  It also confirms to me that she is mentally ill, selfish and just plain crazy. She text me today to give me the regular bashing that I am a bad person and responsible for all her unhappiness and blah blah blah. The everyday stuff. But then she said the following and it threw me and deeply hurt... .

"I know you and why you do what you do. You take us on vacations so there is no time to fulfill promises at home."  

This stung. I realized that I have spent five years with someone who doesn't know me at all. Did it ever occur to her that I take her to the beach because that is her favorite place in the world. She has twisted my simple gift into a conspiracy theory. When it was just a gift to make her happy.

Thanks for listening.

Good observation.  And it's probably projection, too.  I bet you $5 that she loves going to the beach because she feels like nobody has a right to expect anything from her and she can be "free".  My ex bristles severely at the idea of having obligations or expectations of her in a relationship.

just wanted to toss a little love your way willtimeheal. i understand. after being with my ex for years i felt she was someone that knew me better than anyone else--sadly, it couldn't be further from the truth. they have the uncanny ability to turn good deeds and intentions into bad things. my ex would claim that i hated her family one day, and then the next she would claim that i was conspiring with them against her. which one was true? neither, but it didn't matter. and all the accusations of me cheating on her when the thought never crossed my mind is very revealing she never understood who i was as a person.

Thank you for your responses. It means a lot that you take the time to read and respond. She text me again and I told her that what she said about the vacations was the most hurtful thing she has ever said. She responded by saying "that is what it feels like."  I simply said I can't be with someone who will always view me as bad.

I realized that today for the first time. That is how she will always she me... as bad and negative. No matter what I do or say it will be turned into a negative thing.


She also said she would trade all the vacations for us to move forward in our relationship. I asked her how are we suppose to move forward when you are not right with you yet. She is in therapy and working on herself. She will tell me she is learning how to stand up for herself and learning how to stand on her own two feet. She also always complains our relationship should be equal as far as money. I make a lot more than her. She hammers me constantly about money. She is going back to school in the fall. Am I crazy but before we move forward shouldn't these things get worked out?  Isn't that part of moving forward?

Isn't regaining trust part of moving forward?  Last summer when we were apart she told me she got married... .she lied. It took her six months to tell me the truth that she really only got engaged. And I doubt she would have told me the truth except I caught her in the lie one day at her families house.

So today I had a harsh reality hit me in the face. I will always be viewed as bad. But as harsh as it is... .It is a necessary piece that will help me move forward with my life.  

willtimeheal, as with many pwBPD your wife wants to punish you so that you feel as horrible as she does. this is a common occurrence. be careful if you keep communicating to her--telling her that you are deeply hurt by her actions actually only feeds her to do more and justifies to her that she was right. once she realizes that what she's saying has no effect on you then she'll stop trying.

I would say that my ex had a way of making the words "I know you" the most hurtful words in the world.  It meant "you and other people think good things about you, but I'm the only one that really knows you and knows that none of those good things were true."  Of course, as OoE suggests, this is largely if all projection.  And so, as goldy adds, she didn't/doesn't really "know me" at all.  She has an image of me that is largely built on projection and splitting and has very little to do with "me" aside from a few material facts of my life (my appearance, profession, etc).

This is tremendously true.  If you have established boundaries the violation of which is painful, the best way to get her to violate them is to tell her that it hurts when she does so. 

Ouch Ouch and Ouch.  I understand.  It's so hard to depersonalize those types of statements.  I have to remember:

The Disorder turns what is best about ourselves against us.

The Disorder has to do this.  In the limited capacity for a full spectrum of perspectives, if we are entirely evil now, how can the Disorder comprehend our acts of kinds, devotion, and generosity?

It can't.  Simply, the Disorder can't accept that we might be both good/bad, kind/mean, and... .human.  The Disorder can not accept that an ex can be human with its hues and shades of all the colors of the rainbow.

So, it must take our acts of selflessness, and reconstruct the interpretation of those acts into evil abuse and manipulation on our part.

It's such a sad and pathetic way to live... .if you can call that living.  It's more like a terrifying nightmare of an existence.  

It hurts.  I've found that using incidents as the one you describe as further evidence of the absolute presence of the Disorder, helps me to let go in the long run.    But in the short run... .it sucks to know that all my efforts, my devotion, my energy... .was a waste, with no memory outside of myself of the intent for kindness and joy.

One possible measure of my life can be found in the knowledge and memories of my loved ones, of the love I have for them as as they live their lives.   I score a zero with the years spent with my ex.

 

Will, its projection. Maybe start to work on you rather than concentrating on what a disordered person says about you. It says more about our own self worth than anything to do with them.

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I would say that my ex had a way of making the words "I know you" the most hurtful words in the world.  It meant "you and other people think good things about you, but I'm the only one that really knows you and knows that none of those good things were true."  Of course, as OoE suggests, this is largely if all projection.  And so, as goldy adds, she didn't/doesn't really "know me" at all.  She has an image of me that is largely built on projection and splitting and has very little to do with "me" aside from a few material facts of my life (my appearance, profession, etc). [/quote]
This is a great point. It's true she really doesn't know me at all.  She really hasn't taken an interest in me at all throughout the relationship. The majority of the relationship has been her her her.  I just got a text from her that said "miss you"  Have to admit she has balls.

BPD's ruin, pervert and turn ugly wonderful deeds and gestures because they do not love themselves and therefore have no way to share in our joys and the joy of life.

I eventually learned to see her projections for what they were, which pushed me away but also made me feel for her that she saw herself so badly. That she felt compelled to turn it against whoever was close with her. Some of what pwBPD say about us may have a ring of truth, because they're so good at seeing flaws and because we're so open with them, offering our deepest. When a light was shined on something I could change about myself, I faced and worked on it. When it was just her scapegoating me/vomiting her pain my direction, the best I could do was remove myself from the situation.

I completely relate. It was ALWAYS this way with my uBPDex. They always feel like they have to build a case against you. I could never figure that out.

One day, we're exchanging loving emails, having great sex constantly, enjoying life together.

The next, I never listen to her. I control her. I'm the meanest person she knows. I'm anal. I'm too serious. I don't contribute to the relationship enough. I make a big deal out of everything. I can't relax.

A lot of projection, even more lies. She has never wanted children. Ever. She had a very hard childhood and she was always set on having no children. She currently has a 5 year birth control device implanted in her, that's how serious she was. Then, one day she just decides she wants a child. She has always wanted one. She's always expressed her desire to be a mom. I'm dragging my feet. I'm horrible. I'm wasting her time and fertility. She has told me this many times, I knew she wanted children.

On a day while fighting about this, I asked... ."well, why did you get that implant then? You knew it was a long term solution. If you wanted a child, why would you do that? Why would you have that surgery and spend that money?"

You'll be shocked to know that she couldn't answer. People who live in fantasy worlds generally can't back their claims, as they are usually built on lies and distorted views.

This is who they are. Everchanging, they can't be tied to logic. It hurts them to be exposed, they avoid it like the plague. They don't know us, they don't want to. They only want to know that we are under control. They only want the supply, nothing else.

I have seen it so many times, as we all have. You live in a fog, you wonder why you are with someone who is so detached from reality, someone who lies constantly, someone who distorts facts and details, all so that they can "win."

They aren't the victors. I know that now. I know she must have felt good manipulating me into apologies, controlling my responses with guilt and blame, or as in her case, endless tears.

They enjoy being the puppeteer. If you try to dance on your own, they will tug your strings.

It never ends. They will twist, turn, blame, avoid, rage, lie, hide, control, and abuse... .forever.

This knowledge is my source of healing. The REAL reality.

Thanks everyone for your response and thoughts. It is comforting to know that I am not alone. It is sad how many of us have gone thru similar situations.  This morning I was thinking how sad it must be to be trapped in BPD. It would be like being trapped in a cage and clawing constantly to try to get out but never moving an inch. How exhausting. To constantly fight that battle and never make any progress.

This morning I go another rant about what trash I am. About all the broken promises and lies I told. I am by no means perfect but I am also not the monster she makes me out to be.

Then I thought about how terrifying it must be. She tells me how horrible I am in one breathe and then she misses me in another. How desperate must she be. How terrible  to live your life like that. In constant need of approval and love. But the sad thing is she has done so much damage with her words and behavior she is toxic to.My well being. So as bad as I feel for her I cannot be around her. She is poison to me.

"I realized that I have spent five years with someone who doesn't know me at all."

I think that's one of the hardest parts to accept. Is the realization that after years, they still don't have a clue who you are.

:-(

*sighs*

***


"I know you" the most hurtful words in the world.  It meant "you and other people think good things about you, but I'm the only one that really knows you and knows that none of those good things were true."

I think my wife has said nearly those identical words.  Even a mutual friend (with a therapist background) exclaims that we "present" so differently.

Oh yes. That's the one I've kept getting off mine since she walked from our 5 year relationship 3 months ago. I called her and she declared that she was with this new/old guy and he was the one she loved and she couldn't give a hoot about how I felt. So I walked (for good) and stayed silent. Soon enough she starts calling and messaging on FB. Always the same. "I miss you". "How are you?". Not "I'm sorry, I wish I'd handled our break up differently, you didn't deserve to be treated like that" or whatever decent thing any normal person would think of saying. Just "I miss you". As in "hey there sucker, would you like to climb on board for another miserable ride ending in me throwing you off mid air while me and my recycled drug dealer boy friend laugh at your expense?".

Lame!

Oh, many of us have been here. After I vanished for awhile, I got "I miss my best friend." This person who said she loved me more than she knew it was possible to love someone, wanted a life with me, named the kids we'd have together, etc, then dumped via text, called my a pussy, said I had a serious problem, told me to lose her number... .she just doesn't understand why i can no longer be "her best friend." Of course, what she really means is "I miss having someone that I can use as an emotional toilet, who already knows how very f****d up I am, while I  give absolutely nothing to because I'm incapable of doing so, and he'll just put up with it for some reason." Indeed, I know she's afraid that now that I'm gone, she'll ACTUALLY have to show her new men how insane she is, and then they'll be gone. I was insurance for her new relationships!

No more. What's crazy is: when it's going on, you don't even recognize that you're sacrificing your dignity. It just seems like what you're supposed to do.

I knew I was sacrificing my dignity but I didn't care. I was in love and in order to fix her (I know) and us I was willing to crawl through all the excrement. For me at that point it was worth it because things were going to get better. Because I was fixing her and us, right? I would have continued had she not introduced her drug dealer boyfriend out of the blue. Must be one of the very few times a drug dealer has saved someones life.  :)

I do agree with this. And I think that is what makes us different... .we work on the things we can change. Through your our relationship I can honestly say I made a conscious effort to make changes within myself. I started therapy and I became stronger and I changed into a better person for myself. I worked Especially on the things she complained about. When I look back it was me constantly changing and her not changing at all. But she would always complain that she was changing and I was standing still.

Sitting here today and "I know you" keeps running through my head. I have to admit it' getting to me and making me doubt myself. I wonder if she is right. Am I this wicked person that she says I am?  Deep down I know I am not. I know I am kind caring loving and generous. But why all of a sudden today this seed of doubt?  I talked a lot about it with my therapist and the therapist talked how that is the BPDs way of manipulating and playing with my head. I do understand but it just keeps circling around in my head.

Last night I cleaned out all my text messages from my ex. I was shocked to reread all the conversations and lies that were told to me. I had forgotten about so many of them. I watched her talk around everything. And I read the same accusations back then that I did the other day. And they were all ways for her to avoid her lies and deceptions.

But yet here I stand questioning myself. Figure that one out. It makes no sense.

It DOES make sense! She is a sick person who hurts the ones who love her. She can, to an extent, not help that. You on the other hand are not a sick person who leaves devastation wherever you touch down. All you did was love her. It's not your fault that she lacks the basic human skills to appreciate that. You've done nothing wrong. That's all there is to it really.

Just very sad and hurt right now. Angry at myself for allowing her to do this to mis once again. Also feeling foolish for missing her and praying to hear from her.

You have been treated in an appalling way by someone you loved and trusted. Of course you are hurt and sad. It's not your fault she did what she did and you didn't deserve to be treated like that. Don't be angry with yourself. I've been where you are and I still go there at times although less and less. I'm sorry I can't say more than that.

One thing that I have to work on is forgiving myself for engaging with her. Think about the circumstances that you met under, stand back and be brutally honest with yourself. If I do that, really put aside all of the "yeah, but!"'s... .I definitely had all the information that I needed NOT to get involved with this person. Tons-O- Flags!  red-flag  

So... I needed to forget her (Total NC), forgive me and work on healing. She is not going to change... .just prey on more victims. I needed to detach and get healthy.

Infrared

I totally knew when I met her I should stay away. Everything in my gut said run!  But I ignored it and here I am today five to six years later dealing with the aftermath. Is it all bad?  No... .It forced me into therapy and to take a good hard  look at myself. I have suffered like I have never imagined but I have also grown like I have never imagined. So I guess it is a blessing and a curse :) 

We did talk today and agree to respect each other's space and boundaries and to allow each other to work an ourselves in therapy. The one thing that angers me is she said that I said very terrible and mean things. There was never any mention about the horrible things she said. I honestly don't think she has any recollection of anything she said. I don't feel she is capable of facing the facts that she said those things. It is like a person Witherspoon personality disorder. It is quite scary.

What helped me when I was in your shoes was to challenge these thoughts. 

Yeah, there are some parts that are true - of course you did some things wrong... .it is called being human.  Perfection is not possible by anyone, us or them.

Sometimes by digging into that feeling - we can see where it stems from.  Where else in your life has "you" not been "enough"?  Where else have you have you had your good and bad qualities used against you?

Tausk made a valid point that can help if you really let it sink in:

The Disorder turns what is best about ourselves against us.



How many versions of this talk have you had in the past and what is different this time?

Seeking Balance

We have had this discussion in the past. What is different is time?  The only thing I can think of is she is in therapy. Do I know how this ends?  Yes I do... .we go our separate ways.

I can see as she goes through therapy and recalls her past I can see her mental illness taking over. I can see her breaking from reality more and more to cope with the past. In order to cope she has to blame someone and that someone unfortunately is me. Even with the top notch therapist she has the disorder right now is taking hold more and more to protect her from her pain of the past.

Is she a lost cause?  I hope not. At least for her sake. Even if I am discarded again which I am sure I will be. I basically already have been... .everyone deserves a chance to be happy. I learned today a little more about her from people who grew up with her. She lied according to them about somethings. Which doesn't surprise me. I don't trust her. I can't trust her. She has given me no reason to trust her. You can't build a relationship without trust. We have no future.

So I made a decision just now. I am going to live my life. At least I am going to give it my best shot :)  I am sure I am going to have good days and bad days but I am going to try my hardest. I am going to try not to think about her, check FB , or my phone. I just want to get back to me.  I am going to start writing a list of the lies that were told to me over the years... .to help me remember why I am detaching. And to help me focus on the reality of the relationship ... .the fact that I was getting nothing from it.

I am not going to reach out to her. I am not going to contact her. I am just going to go out and breathe the air and smell the air and feel the sun on my face. I will talk to you guys to help keep me focused and strong.

Do this, willtimeheal.  Do it for you.  Be present for your sweet self, treat yourself like you've always wanted to be treated. This is about YOU and always has been.  You have so much to offer, and deserve love and happiness and understanding. 

What you really, really want is accessible inside of you – that doesn't mean being alone, it means that you meet some part of yourself in every relationship, and grow from it. Let this be a catalyst for a new chapter in the book of you.

Keep going, we're here, cheering you on. 

heartandwhole

I like that, Mr. H.  Roll your eyes, shake your head, and smile.  I glad I'm at that place now, for I wasn't a little while ago.   

Thanks heart and whole... .

I think this is going to be a little harder than I thought :). But I am going to try.

Oh, I know this!

In 2012 we had 6 vacations together and one each alone (business/pleasure mix) including one surprise trip to Europe for her birthday. Most women would be ecstatic.

The comment I got later that year? 'Why to we have to go away all the time?' 

Messed up.

I'm going to say something tough to hear. 

You can only write a list of the lies you KNOW ABOUT.  Once we all accept this, we can maybe lose any feelings we hold.

Yes my ex did exactly the same... .  I did so much for her, I devoted my life to her,, And after a year, (thats how long it took me) to wake up and realize she was Borderline, she started to turn everything around, and said I never cared for her, and she needed a man would would " Spoil her " etc etc etc That really floored me,, after all I had done...  

I retaliated instantly, and told her that no man could ever do enough for her, she would turn against any one that cared for her. 

You could of bought her a 5 star beach house, right on the waters edge, it still would not of been enough. 

At the beginning every thing is great, but once they drop their guard and you wake up to them, you can never win with them,, nothing is ever good enough, they are never wrong, you are always to blame for everything.  It is part of their game...  

Dont buy into it...     Good Luckl

I allowed to her convince me I was an abusive partner.  I read the books , highlighted the passages, convinced myself I was a bad guy.

I allowed her to pretend to want to save us, even after she moved out. I allowed her to spend weekends here, sleep,in my bed, yet tell me she felt nothing for me.

I allowed my dignity to be destroyed.

I allowed her to dance in the house with me, kissing me and telling me that I'd never kissed her properly in 7 years. Showing me how to kiss her. ( I later found that while we were doing this, as I topped up our drinks she was Facebooking a friend of her sister, and saying how I'd forced her, tricked her, in to spending the weekend here... .)

I allowed her to force me to end it, when she was staying here 4 nights a week yet would not commit to moving back.

I only grew the necessary spheres when she, in front of me, giggling and shyly avoiding  eye contact as she confessed that within zero time of me ending it, she was 'involved with' someone who made her 'feel special, something I realise was always missing from our relationship.'

Still looking shy, she took the trouble to explain to me that she'd been to spend the weekend with him, but it had been the 'wrong time' for her, so I then got a graphic description of an 'alternative' sexual practice. She described how impressed he'd been at her undoubted ability in that regard.

I allowed myself to try to still, even after that, convince her that we were worth something.

Idiot that is was, I meant it.

It was only when she tried to break in to the house when I changed the locks, that I saw the true her... .totally all about her, my pain meaning nothing, and my having the temerity to deny her access to the house and the pets caused her to say and do totally unacceptable things.

So, I know all about losing dignity.

Why do they treat us worse, the better we treat them? If I did something nice to her, she found a reason to be vile. Why?

She told me the other day she couldn't be around me if I continued with my name calling threats and ultimatums. My name calling consisted of telling her she was verbally abusive to me the other day. My threat and ultimatum I believe is me telling her unless she went on medication for her moods and anger I couldn't be around her anymore. It has now been twisted into me having the mood and anger issues and me being the angry and abusive one. I find that to be unbelievable. then I have to ask myself. Here is a woman who has never had a stable relationship in her life. And if I listen to her tell the story it is always always the other persons fault. They never did this or that. There is never any responsibility on her part ever. And in our relationship it is always my fault things go wrong.

they do not trust true compassion and love, when they find it they will seek to twist it into pain which is their comfort zone.  WHen they were a child that is how they experienced love.

Thanks. Its all just so far from my own way of thinking it's hard to comprehend. Certainly her parents were not nice to her, but why seek more of the same? So alien to me.

They don't know love. They know violence and hate. That is what they experienced. That is their normal. Real love... .unconditional pure and selfless love is something that makes them uncomfortable and they think they are conditions tied to it.

So I am struggling today. I have been on this BPD rollercoaster for a long time now. I can honestly say I hate it. I have never felt so defeated crushed and destroyed by anything in my life. Today it has hit me especially hard. I miss my girlfriend. Plain and simple.

We have been together for almost six years. It has been up and down. We have been apart and together. Basically all over the place. Last year or two years ago ... .what Does It matter... i figured out she had BPD. Ever since then my whole life has been taking a closer look at myself.  Set boundaries.  Working on me.  I can honestly say right now I am sick of working on myself and setting boundaries. For once I would like the silver lining. I would like to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I would like a break. I am sick of this ___!  When do we finally get to catch a break?  When do I stop crying?  When does my heart stop breaking?  When do I smile again and it actually mean that I am happy?  When?

So sorry you feel so bad. It's a horrific experience, and you are doing well to be getting through it, however slowly and painfully. It's exhausting and depressing isn't it?

If it makes you feel at all better, I can say that your posts have helped me a lot. None of this was our fault and we didn't deserve it.

At least you have an understanding of what happened. How terrible it must be for those who never realise that it was a disorder that shattered their lives, and not their own actions. We are fortunate to have found this board and be able to read the stories and gain some understanding at least.

You will make it through. But I know that doesn't help much right now. We just want to feel ok again

A big part thatfrustrates me is its not my disorder.  I don't have BPD!  But yet it has destroyed my life and now every day hour minute is a struggle for me. I do understand that I had "issues" of some sort that drew the BPD to me but the fact that I sit her broken and crippled by their disease really pisses me off!   

Yes it seems very unfair.

I try to remind myself that I WILL feel alright again in the end, however long it takes.

My uBPD ex is doomed to feel wretched and hopeless until the day she dies, leaving only a lifetime of misery and heartbreak behind her.

I know who I'd rather be.

That's close to what I told my ex the last time we spoke. She called and begged me not to put the phone down as I had done the other times since our break up. Against my better judgement I asked her What the heck she wanted and all she came up with was that she missed me. I told her that she is a sick person who hurts the ones who love her. Without missing a beat she said I was probably right. Increadible!

A bit more toing and froing as to what her intentions were and I lost patience and put the phone down. I'd managed to eloquently state some of the hard truths I had stored for her but I still felt like crap. Not for her sake, I give not a gnats p##s about her feelings, but for having talked to her and letting her drag me back in.

Poison!

Hi willtimeheal.

I am sorry you are struggling.  I feel as you do often.  It's going to take some time and more time and being committed to the intention of creating a new healthy life for ourselves.  Its hard when we are still hurting so much and if you are like me, seriously exhausted alot of the time and still ruminating over so much that I experienced. Baby steps.

Another poster spoke about healing beginning with the creation of good moments. Creating new memories and finding the beauty in what we have around us now.  Sometimes i can feel glimpses of joy in my new life after all of the darkness that i have been thru.

What we do now will be the seeds of a new life.  

https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality

#7.

I have stored up so many eloquent things to say and said them.  I never feel better.  

The truth is, my ex, like yours, knows the terrible crap.  She hurts the ones she loves.  She told me herself "I know I'm toxic." What's maddening of course is that one day she'll say she never said that, or she'll forget all about it.  What's maddening is that she said it five minutes after saying "you're not good enough for me, that's why it didn't work."  What's maddening about it is everything.  

But she knows.  She doesn't need to hear it from me to know it's true. 

I feel very tempted to tell mine what she really is like. But really, what is the point? None. So I don't bother.

And there they go to murder the soul of their next unsuspecting victim. Because "this time it'll be different". Because "I have learnt from my experience with you". And so forth until they die.

I told the new woman I'm with about the conversation. Her words were "So how do you feel now?". Crap! "Well, you know why, don't you? Because you let her drag you back in. You'll know better next time".

And she hardly even knows what BPD is.

Mr. Hollande that sounds like an emotionally healthy woman.

And you are right: the last conversation with my ex, she was telling me how since her divorce she has done so much soul searching, and she thinks she can be different now, be loyal, keep promises, not hurt people. "I think

about you because I loved you and I treated you badly, and I don't want to do that in my future relationships." "I think I can be different." I'm sure she does.

That plus how this new guy is so much more attentive, mature, considerate, loving, genuine, loyal, sexually compatible, fun, funny, spontaneous (and whatever anyone else here can add to that list) than we are.

Thanks for pointing me to the Belief List. It's a while since I read it and it's a good reminder.

I'll confess I miss the version of her that she presented , 99 % of the time for the first three years...

Then that version was present 60% of the time... .Then 25%... .then was replaced by 100% hater.

Well I am back and forth today. I have ok moments and then depressed moments. Everyday I get a text from her just filling me in on how her day is going or what she is doing or how she is feeling. I can feel her keeping me at a distance and it is frustrating the crap out of me. I am being treated like I am the one with the mental illness. I simply respond glad things are well or glad you keep busy but it is killing me. But I can't tell her it is killing me. She wants time and space to work on herself. And I am glad that she recognizes she needs help and is going to therapy and realizes she needs  to make improvements but it is such a lonely road for me. But then again it has always been a lonely road for me why should this be any different. I am tired. Tired of being cast aside and seen as the bad guy while she is off with her crazy family once.again.

There is a difference between "working on yourself" and "recognizing you need help."  Perhaps your ex will stick with therapy, but my ex often stated that she needed space to work on herself, and really did nothing but ruminate and find new supply in these times.  Perhaps your ex will pursue therapy with all of her energy and really improve.  But perhaps not. 

What would you say is stopping you from going NC? 

Even though it's lonely, how about taking some time for yourself?

If the r/s improves with her, it will be better that you did.

If it doesn't work with her, it will be better that you did.


I understand what you're feeling, having also been scapegoated.

But I don't look at myself through her eyes, I see myself through mine.

(Being out of the picture, their point of view doesn't really matter.)


She's being obvious about it now, despite the "Let's keep in touch" game. It's not just up to her to regulate how close or far you are. How much distance do you need? How much respect? You're not on her leash, you know. Walk away. Unless you crave the ways she's hooked and reeled you in again?

I can't turn my back on her now. She is working with a therapist. A great therapist... .My therapist got her in with this particular therapist who is a."specialist."  My ex says she likes this therapist and has made a conscious effort to try the recommendations of the therapist.  Even when my ex speaks about herself she will say things that make more sense and I can tell they are being pulled from her therapy sessions. As long as she continues to work on improving and going to therapy I can't go NC.

You're not turning your back on her you are providing space for you.

I don't understand. What do you mean providing space for me by going NC?  Won't that just fuel the fire?

You need space to heal. You are on the leaving board - you have labelled her your ex. At what stage are going to work on you? And can you work on you while you are saving her

I am going to give some tough love here. It was given to me when I really needed it.

WTH... .I see you as totally codependently attached to this person. Every thought that you have about you depends on her, first. That is what I am getting when I read this thread, if I am being brutally honest.  This is very unhealthy for you and repeatedly painful place to be. I was like this, too and I needed some perspective from outside myself. I went and found a good T and a self-help group. I needed to change if there was any help for a less painful future for me. I did not know how to take care of me, first. This is not being selfish, either. I needed to detach completely and work on me. Tough self honesty is the cornerstone for change, but we usually don't get there until we have had enough pain.

I know I can't save her. Believe me I know it. I understand the only person I can save is me. I am in therapy and I am working on me. I should clarify to... .When I started this thread we were broken up. We have decided to work on ourselves and our relationship. I know that I am co dependent and I am working on it in therapy.

Infrared... .thank you for being so up front. You are right.  I do spend to much time worrying about her and revolving my life around her. I need to start focusing on me. Even if we are together I need to focus on me and making me healthy. That is the topic I will discuss with my therapist and really begin to focus on. Thank you for being blunt. I needed that.

yeah... .the perfect ideal is to have two separate lives... .two individuals who have friends, family (when possible), likes, dislikes, hobbies, and goals... .etc.,... etc... .i.e. each person is his/her own person and basically content in life on their own... (perfect never happens... .but that is the goal)... at any rate the two people are supposed to "get to know one another first" ... .and "then see if they are compatible enough to have a relationship". Keeping sex out of it is instrumental to allow each person to focus on the other and who they are... .NOW... this was explained to me in group therapy by my therapist. It was a revelation to me! I thought the whole point of dating was to try to get into somebody's pants... and oh... yeah... .see if you like them or not. LOL!... .I really have to say... when she laid out what dating SHOULD be... .I sat there with my mouth open! ... .WOW... .that makes sense... no wonder things are not working out for me... .hmmm ... .if I get to honestly know the person and see tons-O- red-flag's... .I can take care of me and get out of the relationship... . That would be different than looking across a room and knowing I immediately want to make babies with someone... .and then I see nothing about the person because I am on a chemical love high with a mission. That is exactly what I always did... and it was alway a tragedy in the making!

As soon as there are victims and rescues and drama and angst galore... .it ALL WRONG.  I NEVER knew that!      

If you are not happy/content in your own life yet, what business do you/I have getting into a relationship with someone else. 

When I had it laid out to me like that ... .it made a LOT of sense... .   To some people this is normal common sense... .to me it was science fiction! LOL!

this worries me willtimeheal. for many pwBPD, the concept of "taking time to work on myself" actually means "distancing myself from you while i pursue other interests, while keeping you in check and in line for support while i secure new love/sex supply".


since you've already established that you can't trust her, and also that she's pursued other relationships when you thought you were 'together' in the past--how is she different now? it is good that she is in therapy, but i wouldn't put your life on hold thinking that her therapy will help your relationship. it might help her in life (and this is questionable), but not necessarily help you get back with her.

are you ok with her seeing someone else while you take time and 'work on your relationship'? my ex, and many others' here, lied and told us they wanted to "work on the relationship" but in reality they were just stringing us along while hopping in bed (or trying to) with others. her therapist won't stop this from happening.

You raise very good points. I am aware that even though she is in therapy that doesn't mean she will end up with me. In therapy I have discussed this with my therapist and we have discussed how important it is that I continue living my life and not put my life on hold waiting for her. I don't want to miss opportunities to live because I am waiting on her. I need to heal and move forward also. So while she works on herself I am working on living my life and not waiting around for her. It is hard but I know I must do it.

We also discussed the keeping me in check part and my therapist is just as concerned. And I see it too. But I realize I am to close to it. So I do not contact her. She has to contact me. I go and spend time with friends and do the things I enjoy and I am meeting new people. I need to keep living and making opportunities for myself. My life is active. Hers is passive and I see the difference. I just have to remember it and keep pushing forward.