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Its the hardest thing in my life yet. The pain is overwhelming. I am really bored of the pain right now. Six months out and still i am here. Bpds (and i am not demonizing them) feel to me like emotional prostitutes. They hop from a supply to the next and every time they are offering their full emotions and vulnerability at the start. They do not offer only their bodies as prostitutes but also their intense romantic emotions. Who would not fall for that ? Heck some people are addicted to prostitutes who just offer their body. Before breaking up i realized that there is something terrible with her. I reacted as if i am dealing with a sociopath. Later i found about BPD and my therapist confirmed it. But really think of it how do they differ from sociopaths ? Because of their fear of abandonment ? And this fear is an excuse for their sociopathic behaviour ? I really cant find difference between a BPD and aspd. They both do the same things to people yet we try to empathize and grant them the excuse because of their childhood trauma. Well some of us are codependents too but we dont act in an insane way to get back our dependency supply at any cost even if we know we are hurting others. Life deals us a set of cards and we are responsible about how to play with it. Even BPD people should be held accountable for their dociopathic behaviour. The pain is overwhelming. I am shocked to still feel so after 6 months.

Antony

The BPD is a person corrupted by the world. They have an overwhelming body of pain inside. The sociopath is born that way they don't have a wounded inner child.

Everyone has a wounded inner child besides sociopaths. The thing is normal people everyday display levels of culturally conditioned sociopathy so they can avoid feeling their inner pain. It's just in society we like to pick a group to be the bad guy. This is because the bad guy is dehumanized so therefore it is justified in our minds.  When a human becomes less than human we are able to justify a lack of compassion and bad behavior becomes excusable. Dehumanizations of other humans has led to the greatest atrocities in history.

It is caused by corruption and cultural conditions.

In my relationship with my ex I felt dehumanized by her and actions were sociopathic.  A lack of compassion. Corrupted by forces beyond her control. We have all been corrupted and it is the self rightiour person ignorant of this that has the greatest capacity for sociopathy justified by a currupt culturally conditioned belief.

The antidote to all of this is compassion. Let compassion be your guide to freedom and forgiveness through the pain. Compassion without limits. The limit on ones compassion is the point at which one has been corrupted by the material plane of society and mind.

Should pwBPD be held accountable for their actions? Absolutely.

Raz al guhl"Compassion is a virtue your enemies will not share"

Bruce Wayne "that's why it's so important"

See you are still talking about their wounded inner child. I want to talk about what we havd perecieved rather than the reasons behind their doings. The question is what has happened to you during the relationship, will it be different if you have been involved with a sociopath ? I dont think so

Excellent

I wouldn't bond to a sociopath like i did my ex. So yes.

There is something authentic about the borderline that I bonded so deeply too. I bonded to the inner child of my ex.

I want to expand on this. The borderline is very succeptible to peer pressure. So when she hangs out with people that are self rightious she picks up on their cues on how to act and basically screws things up. The borderline is a mirror of society and feels all of the pain people hide from. So she seeks out people to attach to and identify with to hide from her pain. She is a victim of society. The other sad part is the people closest to her she reveals her secret too which is how much pain she is in. What is the source of her pain though?  Trace the source and the sources source and so on and so forth and there is where we will find the evil.

That was not the case for me. I am not sure she had an inner child other than doing anything that is needed to get validation and approval. The mirroring that went on in the rs reminded me of the early days of my inner child from craddle --> 4-5 years old. If one has not been mirrored suffifiently and there was lack of emotion in the family then there is a core wound.

Through her mirroring, I connected with my inner child that was wounded and dormant. I showed her my inner child - I have never done this before. She made me feel comfortable, she made me trust her. In effect I felt good with myself. I showed that inner child and it was accepted and loved (for a while). I bonded with that part of me. What was she getting out of this? Well she borrowed some of my inner world and child to build hers - she doesn't have a core - she lived through me. It is not that she is damaged like I am. Her state is more close to nothingness - that one does not exist. Her biggest wish was to be seen! When I started coming back to reality and slowly removing my own inner child from the merging her core started emptying, she panicked and started punishing/pushing away.

They are not empty they just don't see themselves. They are so wounded that the only joy they feel is by giving themselves away and being approved of. It is heartbreaking really. Their inner child's "natural" state is one of incomprehensible terror.  Dread pure dread. 

+1 I too fell for her inner child rather than her beauty and sexy body.  Talk about the rescuing personality of us, Co-Dependants. :D

AJ, Sociopaths don't have unstable moods and show impulsive behaviour and be Promiscuous.

I can especially relate so-much to your story because my RS also evolved and ended like yours. You said you're bored of the pain right now. That my friend is the sign of recovery and become stable again. I can wholeheartedly say now that all my pain has subsided after being on this community for almost an year. The reason why I am still lurking around this forum is not because I'm stuck but after reading 1000's of stories shared by other members, I feel I'm addicted to bpdfamily like my cup of coffee so I visit and read a couple of threads before working on my other tasks. I still think about my EX for a couple of seconds everyday not because I miss her but I'll be thinking about how to kick her ar$e when she shows up at my doorstep for recycle.

You say "BPD people should be held accountable for their dociopathic behaviour" but with all their mirroring and projection and triangulation, the disorder always wins and all we Non's know that very well. They'll make everyone believe whatever they say. They'll turn a 5 sec thought into Fact and hold onto it for several years.

As Blimblam said, compassion is your guide to freedom. The more and more you read about BPD, the more it'll make sense and all the anger we have for our EX will slowly fade away and you'll realize that the disorder is doing all the magic. It can't be cured and we're not saint to wait all our lifetime until our EX shows some signs of recovery. YOLO!

I am not sure if I can see them either. Here's something empirical - My xfg was working for the same company for at least a year before I noticed her. I mean I knew who she was but it was almost as if she was not carrying a presence. It was very strange. I don't think I had this with anyone else before.

Here's something theoretical - Does a mirror has an identify of its own? The only constant characteristic of a mirror i.e. that which makes a mirror a mirror is that it reflects the form of what is in front of them. This is also where it gets interesting for me with narcissism and narcissistic wounds/traits and how well they hooks with BPD - is it a coincidence that the myth goes that narcissus fall in love with his own reflection on a lake and eventually fall in and drowned?

Perhaps, if the mirror starts containing some of the contents that is mirrored on them it will slowly start to form a more stable core, ego identity, whatever we call this. But I still maintain that what one falls is love with is it's own self. A mirror doesnt have inherent form itself, it's form is no form. A paradox. And trying to understand paradox leads to madness and perhaps madness leads to more truth. Reminds me of buddhism.

Here's something personal. My ex was into Tibetan buddhism and compassion. She didn't practice it very well when it came to me. I was into Zen Buddhism and the sound of one hand clapping, I didn't practice it very well when it came to her. 

I feel your pain, be strong hard as hell I know. Think of worse case scenarios other people go through (Kids in common +10 + 15 years relationships etc...

BPD's really get the Peer pressure mode 110% it crazy they don't know how to be strong or have their own thoughts they just go with the ''flow'' of the moment.

They really talk crap about you to their friends, how bad you are how bad you treat them how crazy you are.(Even when you are with them ''still'' in the relationship)And you are NOT what they say you are. In my case I was always there for everything giving the best of me! Off course I WAS THE BEAST for everyone she knew.

Its not nice when you start to think if ''You'' are really the crazy one, the one with problems... .Its incredible how they can manipulate you.

Heck they even talk about all your past relationship with the ''replacement'' as it happened to me, saying how bad how crazy you were. (When its totally the opposite). WHY THE heck would they do that? Easy, to be the victim so the new ''Replacement'' will go ahead and rescue the BPD. When the replacement or the new victim calls you and goes by another name telling you to get the #&$^ out of her life cause  she is in a new relationship (after 1 week) of ending the relationship, thats when you know how F up their situation or life is.

So imagine how bad they feel inside, they just have a huge mask to make others believe how happy they are. Their life is a huge mess, they can never be alone, they can never be at home in peace, they are always looking to be with someone to hang around late at night(I mean not even sleeping at their house) wether it is  the new replacement or with friends... .

That was also what I have experienced. One argument in the rs and she would bad mouth me to all her friends. That was shocking to me when we started dating. I mean why would you do that? Until then I have kept my previous relationships matters private and to mysef mostly. I remember when I met some of her friends they were looking at me with disdain and disgust. As if I was the scum of the earth. She 'd do the same with her parents but they knew what was going on with her. When I met them they were really nice to me. They could see that I genuinely cared and loved her deeply. In fact during the last month together she was acting out again and started talking bad about me to her mother, how mean I am, how I want to destroy everything and how I don't love her. She told me about it and I asked her well what did your mother say? her mother said 'xgf honey! I think freedom33 really loves you!' It felt really good that her mother told her that and that she was honest to tell me.

I'm buying this. I fell for her crap hook line and sinker. Loved me right away, was talking about marriage and kids right away. Idolized me. She never met someone like me or felt these feelings before. It was a whirlwind. Something magical finally happened to me. And I reciprocated. Ate it up in fact, just completely sucked in by what I now know was a trap.

When the BU happened to quickly and coldly, I simply couldn't understand how someone could go from that kind of talk, to basically being completely cold to me so quickly. It didn't seem human and I was distraught.

After getting into therapy and finding out about BPD, it makes a whole lot more sense. But not easier, now I am filled with self doubt and guilt over how I didn't see it, why I wanted to believe something as ridiculous as intense love at first site. (i never believed in it before) I also know that this is a pattern she's repeated with probably every boyfriend, told them all the same thins, that I wasn't special at all, just who she was fixated on at that time. That hurts and has me questioning everything about myself.

I wish I never met her.

antony_james,

I am with you.  I recently made a post "Ill or Evil" and have similar ideas.  Here's one:  my BPD ex's childhood experience paled in comparison to so many other grown ups who suffered horrific trauma and despite it all have arrived in a space in adulthood that is whole and capable of genuine emotional relationships with others.  I truly struggle with why I need to add on to my own guilt and shame by pardoning any bit of his intense cruelty due to his childhood. Some research says that there is a predisposed portion of the brain.  Either way, their behavior is disgusting and I wish there was more in the mainstream media about the devastation they leave behind.  I'm also several months out.

Best of luck to you.

TheBPDSurvivor,

You made my day…truly!  As I sit here with my own cup of coffee and my laptop, enjoying the gentle last breezes of spring and browsing this board through tears and a heavy heart - I pray for the time in my life when the BPD ashes are no longer at my feet with every step I take.  I'm working hard to recover and heal.  Some days are easier than others.  I'm glad you "lurk" and know I too, will never stray too far from too long from this forum.  It's made too much of an impact on my healing.

blimblam you would bond to a sociopath (before enlightenment) because they are just charming as much as BPD people. the difference is BPD are charming (during the idealization phase) because they truly believe that you are their white knight in charming armor who would rescue them from their miserable life. it feels to them like God have sent you to rescue them (as much as we think the same too). the sociopath enters the relationship while he\she knows and plans for hooking you up, get his\her benefits then discard you. they know that they are going to discard you from day one of meeting you.


I was explaining the motives of both. what i am trying to point out now is that aside from the motives the result is the same. you are discarded. and yes discarded not devalued and not scapegoated. I have read some research papers that prove so. they discard. just like sociopaths and narcissists. they do not plan for it from day one but you get the same results like if you are in a r\s with a sociopath. emotional manipulation, push and pull, rages (to confuse you in case of a sociopath), verbal abuse and sometimes physical abuse too. i do not care if they really feel they are the victims while they are not. my input was full of abuse. i do not care about my exs motives for her abusing me. in my eyes she does not differ from a sociopath. she has problems she should handle it. going around in life and attaching to people to transfer or ease your pain on them is not something that should be ok. The sociopath does not truly care if what he is doing is right or wrong. the BPD knows and care that he\she should always be right. though they deep inside know of their wrong doings yet they have to project it. I am aware of her punitive parent, angry child, lonely child and detached protector. does knowing such information in hindsight should make her the victim in my eyes and i should accept what happened to me. yes i accept that it happened but i am not ok with it. actually thinking this way tells a lot about the codependency issue still there (its not important what i feel even if i am feeling a victim. she is the victim).


yes she is a victim but who freaking cares. I am a victim here too. should i blame it on her abuser during her childhood ? he indirectly affected me but she is the one to be blamed. life dealt her a hand of cards (a very good one too ! i was ready to go through hardships for her) but she wasted it. yes her thinking is disordered but there was not a single sign that i would leave her. its like alcoholism. they enjoy what they are doing. like me i enjoy smoking a cigarette. its harmful and tastes bad but i enjoy the puff. the difference is that i do not harm anyone with me smoking but they do like to inflict their pain on you ! this is sociopathy right there.

Again i do not care about what goes inside their head. what i have witnessed of actions, words and rages is what i have experienced. this is all what matters for me. my pain is so deep that i can not empathize with her pain. for once in my life i want to be "selfish". to put myself first and this is my total right. i am knowledgeable of her disorder but that is not an excuse to not hold her accountable for what she did. yeah we know about her pain bla bla bla but what about mine ? Should not i feel that there were wrong doings targeted against me though i am innocent regarding my intentions with her ?

She should be held accountable for what she did as much as i hold my self accountable for my codependency and accepting a situation that i am not comfortable with. 

read the stories here. One member asked while he is crying "why are you doing this ?" and the answer is "i want you to feel my pain" ! really what the heck. this is not sociopathy ? what about the others that wake up to find them moved out and not a single peep afterwards. what is that kind of ZERO empathy ? aint it sociopathy ? what about the sex as a tool ? aint this sociopathy ? what about the social scene to make you look bad ? aint this sociopathy ? what about the smear campaign after the break up ? aint this sociopathy ?

I can confirm this one from my own experience antony_james. She said to me once that 'Borderlines sometimes do what they do because they want to make others experience and feel what they feel'.

I can feel your pain. You, all of us really have been hurt and abused. It 's ok to feel angry and vent. This is a safe place.

freedom33 i am here since the beginning of april. i have noticed two types of people here. some come and just post 20 or 30 posts maximum, get the knowledge and get over it. others like me and blimblam come and stay here for long. it shows that this experience has touched us more. not that we are weaker but that our expectations out of our last r\s was much higher. I know a lot about cluster B disorders that my therapist was asking me questions about some new info i know about BPD and i jokingly told him that he is the one who should pay me this session. really there is nothing new here happening but still the pain inside. i am back to anger and despair. you know how long did my ex last with me ? six weeks ! and i am here mourning for 6 months now. really what the heck ?

I'm sorry you're feeling hurt Hope0807. I'm not sure how long your relationship lasted but mine started and ended all within a month. Initially I thought its some kinda rebound relationship because all the showers of love and affection made me a little uncomfortable because they were unreal and I felt like I'm flying above the sky! Its like a vivid dream come true. God only knows how much I'm gonna get hurt in the following weeks when I fall from that high.lol

They say time heals everything and its soo true in all our case. We're not one who failed to succeed in a loving relationship but a victim of emotional abusers and soul suckers.

The more and more you love yourself, the quicker those BPD ashes will be swept away. So how did I love myself?

When looking back, I'm a confident person who lost all his self-esteem and failed to achieve my life goals after the breakup and this breakup is not a typical one. After a littlewhile of weeping over the lost love, I realized I've only one life to enjoy in this beautiful planet. I shared my BPD story to all my friends. Some of them wondered and some of them listened to but none of them gave any advice or support but I guess it wouldn't work even if they did. The pain was then replaced by a numb feeling after a couple of months. I felt nothing but empty inside.    (Maybe thats how BPD feels all the time?)

Days passed by and I read so many articles about co-dependency and realized that; as a co-dependent, I'm expecting someone to lift me up after I fall in this deep pit because thats what I'd do if someone needs some help.

The only to take my life back is to hold my breath and climb out of the pit by myself no matter how hard it is and I finally did it!

I got a new haircut, new clothings, new perfume, new songs, every little things that reminds me about my ex were replaced! I gone out more with my friends and enjoyed life.

Set some short-term goals and achieved it one at a time. It looked like I'm taking back my happy life and thats when the BPDex called me. I stayed like a rock and ignored her like she has nothing to do with my life. Its my life now and I've all the reasons to kick out whoever comes on my way to achieve my goals.

I already got a new car, registered my new company(business) and got a lot new girlfriends who already started showing some hints but I don't really need a relationship now. Its not like I hate it but I want to enjoy the single life and travel around the world. The one who hold the key to our happiness is truly us. Once you realize this, everything in your life will take a complete 180 degree turn.

I'm not sure if its a coincidence but your name has 0807 which is the Date and Month of my birth. 8th July :)

Sending you a lot of hugs...    

Much power to you!

Consider yourself lucky AJ because mine lasted less than 4 weeks over a long distance relationship and she travelled 1100 Kms 3 times within that timeframe and 2 making outs and my breakup was on last Sep 10.

I have a story to tell you though. On the night of my breakup, I found my replacement on her FB and he had his wechat(smartphone app) id on his profile. I made a fake wechat profile and added him. Meanwhile I was trying to call my ex to know the reason for the breakup but her number was busy. This guy then replied after 30 mins and I introduced myself like one of my friend and said to him that this b|tch is fishing peoples for sex and she drained out my friend(me) and will repeat the same with you. I said my friend(me) is trying to call her for a while but her number is busy; he then replied like "I'll hang up the call with her now so your friend can talk with her" So I told him a short history how she know my friend(me) bla bla bla... He then said like "dont worry bro, the ball is now in my court. I'll cause her all the pain she inflicted on your friend(me). Ask your friend to find a good girl. I'll teach her the lesson" and you know what? After almost an year, his FB is inactive now and rarely posts something and its nothing but sadistic quotes.

I wanted to rescue him but he fell with this girl even after my warning. Who's to blame here?

Sometimes you need to ignore someone's wrongdoings and move on with your life. In this case, you gotta run!

so BPDsurvivor your relationship lasted for less than 4 weeks and you are here for a year now ? wow this is not good news for me  lol

Ask yourself at the time why did you love them so much?  Not the story you made up after arriving here. At the time how did you feel?

Because for the first 3-4 months she seemed like my dream girl. Completely idolized me, was into everything I was into. Escalated intimacy quickly, made me feel safe, like she'd never leave me. said things like "she'll love me forever, never met anyone like me, never felt like this about anyone before"

I thought I hit the jackpot.

Believe me when i say that i did not edit a line in my story. I even kept revising dome partsnof the story with my friends (they witnessed some events) because of self doubt and gaslighting. Some of the reasons has changed. For example. I did really love her. Later i found that i loved that i am being needed when i learned about codependency. But even codependents love genuinely. Codependents can stay together forever. The reason for love is not healthy but it does not deny its true existence. At least there is object constancy.

How did you feel.

Amazing! In love like never before. Like I had met my soulmate and was going to be in love for the rest of my life.

Soulmate.  Meaning the 2 became 1. And you felt "god". Then you became aware of the body of pain between your ego and that endless love at your core.  You became aware of all the rest of the pain that exists in the now.  But you felt that endless love in the now before so it exists.  It was within you the entire time. But now you must feel all the pain in the now untill you reach that place within. This is the journey.

Blimblam can you clarify what you are saying ?

2 souls mated and became 1. When they leave we do not feel whole. That our other half is missing. But the other half was always there. The ego and the source within feel the body of pain that "seperated" us from the source within but this pain is our link to the source. So now the pain must be experienced as the ego decends to the source to become whole again.

"This is your pain. This is your burning hand". 

Cant wait to find the vinegar

Lol.  Remember when he warns against guided meditation. No guides no gurus no authorites. This is your pain this is your burning hand it's right here.

Fuk the story. Fuk the justifications. Fuk contemporary  psychology mumbo jumbo. Fuk the conditioning. Fuk me. Fuk authority.

"This is your pain this is your burning hand. It's right here " - Tyler durden

"Question authority"- Timothy leory

Even question the authority of the story you tell your self.

"Forget what you think you know about you and me" - Tyler durden

www.youtu.be/UIsXZVhvvGs

no. not necessarily. while it is highly common for pwBPD to have come from abusive childhoods, this is not always the case. we have to be very careful here. you can't always blame the family, childhood upbringing or the parents (or 'society'. just as some pwBPD come from abusive childhoods, there are those where there was no discernible abuse from childhood or FOO. where they have siblings who grew up in the same environment and turned out just fine. the parents and family are left just as confused and hurt by the situation that a bf/gf, husband or wife would be. we cannot not always blame the disorder on outside forces.

if you go to the parents/family board you will often see posts from parents and siblings who are just as confused about the origins as we are. and i say you have to be careful because the family is often unfairly blamed or devalued just as we were. my ex's family seemed supportive of her and of each other. i could tell my ex's mom had a loving but tenuous r/s with her daughter. my ex's siblings all seemed to not have pd's. yet my ex would paint a negative picture of her mother often, when upon meeting her i could see that this wasn't true. i have no idea how hard my ex's childhood was or what could have happened, but i'm not so quick to assume her family was the cause of it. i do feel that there was definitely trauma experienced in her childhood, but i couldn't point a finger as to where it came from (too many lies and unfounded devaluing from ex to really know). there are obvious cases where abuse was present, but i would view any info about events from childhood coming from a pwBPD with skepticism as to what really happened. there are parents dealing with being falsely accused of sexual/physical/emotional abuse unjustly just as there are SO's dealing with unjust accusations of domestic violence, etc.

i point this out because i made a promise one day after reading a post from a distraught mother on the family board that i would try and let others know that parenting and FOO aren't always the direct cause of pwBPD. it is common, yes, but sometimes they are just as much a 'victim' of the disorder as anyone else.



i get what you're saying here. we do have to stay vigilant and make sure we don't dehumanize others. i for one never felt like i dehumanized my ex. i think pw personality disorders are wholly human. good people, bad people, codependents, narcissists... .all expressions of humanity to me. but i don't feel saying that the overall arc of having a r/s with someone with BPD being similar to that of being in a r/s with a sociopath 'dehumanizes' them. i think there's a lot of truth in this statement. the underlying reasons for doing what they do are vastly different, yet for the person on the other end experiencing the pain, discarding, devaluing the experience i would imagine is much the same. actually, i shouldn't go so far as to compare with sociopaths as i'm not too familiar with this type of person--i'm sure i've probably met one but i've never recognized them if i did.

however, i think the point anthony_james is making is that at some point, does it matter why an abusive person is abusive? to the person getting the abuse, i think it matters little. it does matter in the greater scheme of things though, when it comes to looking to solutions. it's vitally important to understand the motives of abusers in any attempts to heal or mitigate their behaviors. and i feel it's equally important for us to seek to understand their motives with some empathy so we can understand how we got to where we are at now. yet regarding the experience of someone being emotionally or physically abused--i think the abuse speaks for itself and the motive only serves to explain, not excuse.

in short, a pwBPD, npd, aspd, or a garden variety assholle can be terribly abusive or less so, depending on their own personal behaviors.

or in short, a pwBPD is no better than a full on npd, aspd, whateverPD just because they feel sad a lot. they're behavior towards others determines how 'good' they are. and because of the spectrum i'm sure there's people with other PDs that may be less abusive and a specific pwBPD and vice versa. depends on the person, not the PD! decouple-it


my compassion has limits. and i think this is healthy. i think sometimes i hear speak of compassion and forgiveness and i see this more as a cover for a person's attachment. this is just my personal understanding of it, how i feel about things although i recognize it can be different from others. i tend to give less significance to compassion and forgiveness if i feel the person claiming to have this is still attached. because when still attached i feel like what you are forgiving and being compassionate about is still and idealized version of the person you were with. to me, true compassion and forgiveness represents when we are totally free from allowing a person to hurt us, in any way shape or form. complete detachment first, then compassionate understanding of what happened. i have a good friend of mine who when consoling me tried to offer his version of compassion regarding his ex-wife (who treated him terribly during their break). he told me that he'll always love her and wishes her well... .ok that sounds fine and dandy. but then a couple sentences later he says he had run into her recently and that she had gained weight and he kind of chuckled about it. for me this isn't true compassion or forgiveness. you can't still be in-love or in-hate in any capacity.

my own personal gauge to how far along i am with forgiveness/compassion is simply this: Do i still want to hurt this person in any way? << that's all it is. I'm mostly there, I feel it fully sometimes and then others i feel little pangs that pop up where i still want to be 'right', or i still want to feel justified or understood. sometimes i want to chuckle at her or see her downfall a little bit to justify how i feel about her behavior towards me. it's much much less now--i actually have started feeling really amazing in the past few weeks (another post!). but i recommend asking yourself these questions when gauging your own levels of compassion for someone who hurt you:

* Can this person or my idea of them still hurt me?

* Would i cause hurt or discomfort to this person if the opportunity arose?

for me the answer to this question grows closer to a firm NO as the months go by.

Some good points on the issue of 'compassion'. I have caught myself playing the compassion card in my mind in the past just to avoid facing the plain facts that I have been played like a fool, deceived,  betrayed, hurt and abused.

The compassion card when its played this way it is done to put one in a position of questionable 'moral superiority' supporting maladaptive patterns thinking and of dealing with problems, sticking head in the sand and pretending that one is good and forgiving and kind and that will solve problems etc.

This is a symptom of a way of approaching the world, a maladaptive belief. There is actual genuine evil in the world and there is a purpose for it. If we were all good and compassionate the world would come to a standstill. Detachment is key.

Some people say that evil doesn't exist and evil is the absence of good. People that are too attached to their goodness which is actually weakness. Evil does exist in its own right. You can justify anyone's behaviours to explain the world this way if you have determined the outcome of your thinking process before you have even started it (which is poor other person x had it rough... .).

I have taken of the rose coloured glasses. Now I aim for peace but also be prepared for war and defend my basic rights as a human being. My life has value. The gift of the borderline to me is to have less fake compassion.

I'm glad to feel you got a survivor worthy experience in a month, but in my humble comparison, you didn't get to see much at all in a month, not much at all.  What happens to the non over the course of time and experiences in and out of the home, mixed in with more time, people, environments, holiday, events, occasions…the psychological and emotional damage is beyond words.  I was with my husband for 7 years.

this is my ex. i have met her sister several times. she seems to be ok with 2 children and a seemingly happy marriage. my ex painted her parents black and one day out of the blue escaped her country and came to where i live. i remember her dad calling her several times while i was with her and remember very well her attitude while talking to him. i justified it by her victimization and "how her parents were over-protective after her divorce".

Doesn't matter how happy they pretend to be, BPD people will always cycle back through misery. When the mask doesn't hold anymore and the mirror reflects who they really are: mentally ill people who needs help, the mirror crashes and they look for a new supply, Best is to feel sorry for them and move on with your life. Because without intense self commitment to therapy, they will never heal and always resist to treatment. Their emotional development is stuck in childhood and really, who wants to deal with a child in a grown up body?

I've been with my ex for 4 months and as I said in previous posts, her BPD comorbid with Bipolar 2 rapid cycling, hyper anxiety and ADHD. I got blind sided by BPD as i thought it was part of the bipolar sanctum. Thinking back, there was several red flags and lies. The ridiculous idealization phase, within 1 week telling everyone we were in for life, that I was the man she waited all her life for... .all the usual BPD bullsh!t. Then she started to feel a bit down, I thought it was a bipolar low but the episode was quite  contradictory to what Ive known. She got some books at the library in an attempt to self heal from childhood wounds but i know now that was part of the mask. I was trying to encourage her to keep making efforts to get better, thats probably when the black paint started to spray.

She started dating her new supply 2 days after leaving me. Pretending shes all happy now and he is the men of her life. If only that supply knew what I know, I am hoping he sees it quick and drop the breakup bomb on her. I am not the type to wish anyone bad stuff, but the little devil on my left shoulder would love to see her crash. I am aware she is mentally ill and all that Jazz, but imo it doesnt make it right for them to run around rampant screwing up us nons emotional balance.

thank you freedom33. i love the way you describe evil as being real but necessary. you put into words something i've been feeling but not able to express all the way. on one hand you don't want to completely demonize/dehumanize someone, yet on the other i think it's inaccurate (and perhaps unhealthy) to act as if evil doesn't exist in and of itself. detachment is key. detachment is free(dom) 

antony_james

Don’t beat yourself up by accusing yourself of “still being here”. Don’t do that my friend!

It is your way, yours only! You are not me, nor any other member, so take your time, step by step, day by day. A cliché? Yes, but true!

Many of us were discarded in a blink of an eye (me too after 30+ yrs r/s in front of the kids) devastating beyond any believe, beyond any normal reason in fact.

Almost 4 yrs. later, guess who is here?  Me…   Even that I already knew about BPD during the r/s, learned, used the techniques and minimized her outbursts to 1 p/yr. 

What was said in my local group once is: 

what “they” once did, “they” do it again, some day

   or   past behaviour predicts “their” future behaviour

Nice isn’t it? So this family guy was prepared… in fact fought like hell for various reasons. And hé even “canalized” her mood swings… Future laughed in a way… That was way back in 2007, same period as I found this Board too (reading and learning as a “free rider”,  and must not forget to contribute tomorrow). 

Almost 4 yrs. later since she left “temporally for her rest”… “divorce” according to a BPD dictionary… lol Who is here?

Although I still learn a lot about BPD (even beginning me to questioning why should I still as the r/s is over) the reason is for my future and to share experiences in order for others to benefit.

I am not an expert at all, but understand that the reason a BPDperson acts is different from sociopaths or others in cluster B. That takes a lot to swallow maybe as the similarities are so obvious

Plain:

#Discarding you is to protect themselves, you are the bad parent, so it is to prevent themselves for losing themselves totally, a primitive survival mode triggered in the Amygdala!

#Oh yes , A BPD loves, crave for it! But can’t prevent destroying what they love. The bad parent is evil, so I am entitled to punish too… I love you- I hate you

# Lying and manipulation? For a BPD it is a survival technique only! We are the persecutor (the punitive parent) when we catch them lying/manipulating. What will any child do when you ask is he/she took a candy? I don’t tell you as you know the answer.

#Now as you say holding a person responsible.

Ask yourself how to hold a 4 yr. old responsible. Oh yeah,  holding a child responsible in a grown up world, that works, doesn’t it?

A BPD is an adult, equipped with all we are equipped with, except for 1. Their emotional core!

# pwBPD are like chameleons. When the audience is gone, they sees to exists.

Who teaches a 4 yr old? Parents who take care emotionally of a 4 yr old, so on who does a BPD emotionally depends largely?  You! 

# pwBPD love without measure those whom they soon hate without reason

I feel your pain Anthony! My reply being very direct is not to offend you at all! Just to gain a moment (hopefully longer than that ) of rest in order not to blame yourself!

For a longer thought (to distract your thoughts   :) ) 

   What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly

I guess what it comes down to is their are in some ways sociopathic and it is our own inability to accept this that causes the problems. Wanting something they can not provide

Wow this sounds all to firmilar... .its almost exactly the same as what i went through. What's sad is that deep down i knew this was to good to be true. I saw so many red flags but bought into the fairytale anyway. I am slowly starting to let myself off the hook for letting myself into this mess. I was depressed and lonely at the time and a cute girl 10 years younger than me was showing interest.

A_J, hi, hope you can shake this yuck off quickly. Nice analogy "emotional prostitutes", lol, I might just quote you someday but probably not. Ok, about you and not "them". Emotion always emerges first. When something like a feeling where we find attraction occurs, emotion always is the first thing we feel after the sense perception. How strong it is felt is a result of how much desire or hatred that we place upon it. "It"as an object, could be anything. Do you remember the first time you tasted your favorite candy, or something shiny and bright caught your attention? If you create a little space between your emotions and your self you will see how we place this value of desire on objects. Emotion is only a good thing when it is felt and expressed from the true self. When it comes from a false perception it is never good no matter what it is. I'm sure that you have heard it like this at one time or another; don't make emotional decisions. What you are feeling is sexual exploitation. It's very common. It couldn't happen without two willing participants, and it's ugly. Makes us feel crappy. Fortunately for us the reality of this human existence is held in the arms of impermanence. This too shall pass. As these difficult feelings leave us, and they do, we have a golden opportunity to know our selves better and arrive at truth. Best wishes.

Hmmm.  Well, a ___ conducts a business deal, money for services rendered, a transaction.  I don't see a borderline conducting business, more trying to find love and avoid abandonment, while being convinced it will happen, motivated by fear, which informs all of the decisions and behaviors.  Whatever, I get it; assigning a disparaging term to something that caused us pain feels better.  But that's a borderline. 

It's said someone hangs around in our heads until the lessons they are there to teach get learned.  Borderlines are good at getting their hooks deep in our psyche, they have to be, it is mandatory in their world to attach to someone else, since they don't exist without it.  And we let them.  You can consider it malicious or a matter of survival on their part, doesn't matter, what matters is what you do with it.  What if everything happens for a reason and it serves us?  Why did a borderline enter our lives when they did, what lessons were they there to teach, how can we use them?  Using the energy of the pain of detachment in a way that supports us can be very motivating, very fruitful.  And we stay stuck in the pain until we channel it in a way that serves us and start focusing on the future instead of the past, a better future as a result of the lessons.  Happiness is created by progress.


Yep, so what's your next play, in order to win this game of life?

Great post. That is what I am trying to figure out. The problem is that what I've learned is has shaken me to my core, it feels like the beginning of a long journey that I do not wish to take at my age.

I'm no spring chicken myself, but ever hear the expression 'when the student is ready the teacher will appear'?  Sure, it would have been great had I been all wise and mature in my youth, but it is what it is, and focusing on enjoying the journey instead of getting to the destination makes it fine to be where we are.

Every day above ground is a great day.

i am not new here. i am past the phase of blaming it all on my ex. i did a lot of introspection and held my share of responsibility and my doings during the r\s. i am again saying it i am not try to demonize them but as goldylamount said, it is not important their excuse for abuse as their abuse does not differ a lot from the type of abuse you receive from a sociopath.

i think i am developing a panic disorder in a bad time when my career really needs me as i have to sit an important exam soon. i was glad that preparing for this exam would take my mind off and it did for the past month but suddenly for some days now i am back to fear. really really fear. i am afraid while i am typing this now. i don't know what i am afraid of. but its a really intense feelings that cripples my stomach and make me breathless LITERALLY. i am beginning to get cynical. after removing the colored tinted glasses from all the views in my life now i can see how life is full of ugliness and evil ! evil right here evil right there everywhere there is evil. i have noticed that a lot of people were invading lots of my boundaries and now i am stopping them. they are upset. where did the "kind" antony go ? but this is it. i am not gonna be back to the fantasy and false self i was living with. i will do what it takes to reach. reach where ? i dont know but there must be somewhere to reach with this.

Nah, labeling a borderline a prostitute and likening their behavior to that of a sociopath isn't demonizing at all.  Friendly sarcasm my friend... .


Yes, evil is everywhere, and so is good; it's a matter of focus; what we focus on we get more of.


You're moving towards a new normal.  I can relate to where you are; when we go through a traumatic experience it changes us, as does the work we do following it.  It's common for people to change and then discover the people they had in their lives no longer fit, and I too have zero tolerance for bullsht from people today, because my ex was the one who finally pushed it too far, she did me a favor in that regard.

So as we create a new life for ourselves, one devoid of fantasy and false selves, we're out of our comfort zone, by definition.  And as with anything new, the more we do it the more comfortable we get; it's that good kind of uncomfortable though, because even though we haven't settled into it yet, we know we're on the right path.  Any of that speak to you?

all of what you have said spoke to me except for the demonizing part. describing them as emotional prostitutes is not demonizing them. a physical prostitute shares a very special part of his\her body with anyone who is willing to pay him\her. the borderline shares a very special part of his\her emotions with anyone who would enable,care take, parent her\him though they can predict the result from their past experiences. my ex in a lucid moment cried and told me that i should run away and that she is no good to me, her life is miserable and she does not want me to get involved in this mess and one day she would hurt me. why did not i run away ? thought it would be different with me than with her 10+ partners before me ? i hold myself accountable for this whatever the answer is .if someone shows you who they are believe them. its a metaphor that i find fit so much. regarding their behavior i dont see any difference from a sociopath except for the motivations and intentions behind (which i really dont care about because in the end i got the same result and pain).

moving forward is a must. eliminating people asking to condition my behavior back to the old me so that it would suit them is a must too. its difficult. its life changing by all kinds of definition and meanings but i see the better in the long term future

I think emotional prostitutes is a very Apt description. 

Apt ?

Lol my bad thought it was an abbreviation for a psychological disorder that i dont know. Wait... .i think i know all of them lol

An exact duplicate experience for me. It is quite remarkable how their pathology directly targets our emotional center.

You know what Antony I thought about it more and a borderline is very much like a female psychopath although in my exs case was due to corruption.  Still the tactics and such they employ are much the same.  The disaster she has caused in my life and still to this day family think she's great and I am the problem. 

They love to say,"I don't know what's wrong with you." 

Next time I'll tell them I was dealing with a psychopath.

yes exactly cause i can remember very well how it was obvious that things were intentional and prepared for during devaluation. during devaluation, she was starting to talk to her ex to emotionally abuse me and they were "special friends". so she was teasing and saying "my ex is inviting me to visit him in slovenia. he got a new house and he wants to show me around." at that stage i was aware what was going on and i was playing with her the game of who will win (unknown to me the catastrophe that i am going to feel in the upcoming months). so basically i said "well you know your break up with him was recent and i think the man needs some space. i know that you might be dealing with him as a friend but i think he is still attached. would not it better to allow him some space." her reply was "he is an old man and he should know what he is doing."

Actually, Borderlines and Sociopaths can share many of the same behaviors. And don't say you wouldn't bond with a Sociopath lol. They can make a Borderline scream for forgiveness. They are the true evil. What you have to understand is it's the Cluster B disorder, they can overlap. My exBPD has Sociopathic traits, she is impulsive in different ways than other Borderlines. And Sociopaths can turn if abused enough in early years.

full disclosure: i'm 57! and and what happened to me violated me utterly and has also shaken me completely. but i have no choice. this is when it happened. i've had to scramble pretty desperately, and face things that i knew, but was suppressing. so it's that or sink into the insanity of bitterness.

do you have people around you with whom you can start to rebuild your life?

freedom 33,

What a great, memorable post!  I fluctuate deeply between aiming for compassion, but instead finding some strength to get through the day in righteous anger toward my exBPD.  You said what my thoughts struggle with daily.  WHY WHY WHY must I feel forced to feel compassion for someone who feels none toward me and demonstrates such cruel regard even for others, if they could only see past his false social charisma.  The word illness automatically attaches to our sense of humanity and compassion, yet so much of the BPD behaviors are evil, far beyond mean, far beyond an emotional dysregulation.  My ex has had seriously ill family members, friends in very bad places in life…and completely removed himself from them - felt and exhibited NO gesture of genuine compassion in their direction.  It made me sick.  He SEEMED so unbelievably kind…but DID NOT make the effort in any way.  On any given day, at any moment, all he did and said revolved around how it would benefit HIS needs, and ultimately, his needs only.  I didn't see all that while I was there, I see it clearly now.  I'll never forget the day he got a phone call that his old best friend (the one whom when we first started dating he referred to as the guy he'd take a bullet for) had attempted suicide more than once and was nearly successful this last time.  My ex didn't seem affected by this.  I barely knew the guy and found myself thinking about him constantly.  I began to question my ex about why he wasn't reaching out to him or at least driving over to visit and let the guy know he's cared for.  At one point I even had an in-depth discussion and ultimately asked my ex if his friend were to actually complete the act, would he (my ex) be able to live with the guilt of not having reached out at least once more to this once upon a time "best friend".  My ex never called, never visited, never reached out to that old best friend of his.  The best friend has reached out to me for insight as to why his old best friend and child's godparent has cut him so deeply without so much as an explanation. 

I haven't had the heart to try to explain any of the harsh reality of all this to that person.  Part of me feels it's not my place, another part of me feels like I would have paid my salary to someone who could provide insight into my ex before

I have known full blown sociopaths and I do not sense any authentic good in them.  Just superficial charm.  I do not fall for any narc traits or histrionic either all of this disgusts me or I may find momentarily entertaining.

The borderline I can sense Something authentic within them and I have seen it.  The sociopath is not authentic. I can typically spot a psychopath fairly quickly.

Anyways all of this is on a continuim and spectrum.  Everyone's ex was different. 

My ex was the sweetest kindest girl I ever met so giving. Underneath it all just a child.  She is just too succeptible to peer pressure. And when te switch flipped I saw a sociopath it was disturbing and painfull beyond belief.

Their personalities are carpmentalized. This is part of what

Makes it so confusing.

right. and this is what's hardest to explain to someone. my ex wasn't a simple psychopath in that she was always cold, always plotting, with no empathy. it was contextual. she had empathy, and when she didn't i think that she tried. but once she disliked someone that's when all the bad stuff came out--lying, manipulations and abuse. no different i would think than a sociopath/narcissist. it was all there, just compartmentalized as Blimblam states. it's confusing but at the end of the day there was a little bit of everything mixed in her psyche.

Yes it is everything to the extreme under one roof.  I think the one ring in lord of the rings is a metaphor for the borderline. In fact I think The Lord of the rings trilogy is a metaphor about what the borderline is and what happens when one comes into your life.

Interesting. Can you elaborate?

If you watch The Lord of the rings you will be able to identify with bilbo finding the ring like when you first met your ex.  Then with smeagal and froto as times goes on in the relationship and after it ends where you are now.

There is a reason for this and I could probably write a book on comparative religions and fairie tales to explain it.  The thing is even if I told you and you understood it intellectually you wouldn't know it.

Here's. Hint our ex projected the prince onto us and we identified with it. We projected the princess onto her. Carl Jung describes this princess projection as the anima. The anima is important in the jungian view of alchemy and the process of individuation. 

If you stay with the pain and process it focus on the somatic sensations of it. Surrender to the anima and just feel it let the process happen. You will undergo the alchemical transformation. There's is nothing to study just feel your pain.

Eventually you will know.

There is a message and it's everywhere. For those who have eyes that see and ears that hear.

"This is your pain. This is your burning hand it's right here" - Tyler durden

Thanks to this ''Topic'' I keep moving forward, somedays are harder than others. God this feeling of our ''EX BPD's is like going up a hill full of oil

How come they not really FEEL  themselves like a ''Prostitute'' I don't get it, on our last meet up like 2 months ago I asked her that WTH is going on with you, I even asked her if she was going to bed with this other guy ''The replacement'' and she was like ''Yes'' and stayed quiet. Just after 1 week of braking up with me. WOW... .(Yes I know I was stupid trying to keep the relationship with her, I should't have asked that or even met her)

And now 2 months later of NC she sends me a text asking me how I was and asking me how the dog we rescued is doing? Cause off course I am the one taking her of the dog now and she is hanging out Fu&^&ing guys around living a miserable empty crappy life.       

You're trying to apply rational thinking assuming she's doing the same; if she has a mental illness she doesn't think rationally, in fact she doesn't think, she feels, everything intensely.  As relationships progress, and a partner wants and tries to get closer emotionally, a borderline will feel engulfed and push you away, and as you react to that by distancing from her yourself, it will be interpreted as abandonment, motivating a borderline to seek an attachment elsewhere.  Borderline personality disorder is about the need to feel good, by using another human being, and one way of looking at it is she is using someone else to manage the feelings of shame and the feelings of abandonment she felt in the relationship with you, and if the relationship progresses enough with the new guy, she'll repeat the behavior with someone else; it's about need, not love.

All of that can be called emotional prostitution if that term works for you, but the main thing is what are you going to do about you now?

Thank you so much! Makes me feel better. I am doing better taking 1 day at a time doing my best, I stayed NC and did't reply to her messages but I felt like a slap in the face and a lot of the past emotions, feelings woke up with the contact she made by texting... .I am strong and will keep going thanks! |iiii