BPDFamily.com

Here is my previous thread... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=233722.msg12505471#new

My wife has been all over the place today.  Saying one thing and then completely contradicting herself constantly today.  She is trying to pick fights (divorce, bills), get me to react, and belittle me.  I'm done with it.  She is playing games and wants me to be her whipping post.  I have been good to her and the kids and she is projecting everything on to me today.  It's been hard.

I am sorry.  I have been there several times.  This last time I just kept saying that I am so sorry he was hurting and I loved him.  Just didn't reply to the threats.  This is what the therapists recommended.  He was in therapy, so I think that helped move things forward.  When I saw him, I tried to be affectionate and calm.  He was cold and it hurt but he eventually thawed.

Yeah, she started my morning off with, "I want a divorce". I never got angry, but eventually had to cut it off and say, "Have a good day" to keep from letting myself go to a bad place... .Can't control what she does... .She's hurting the kids and just keeps digging a hole... .It's sad

Didn't read all the previous posts but I wonder if something specific triggered all this?  In any case, as much as you are hanging on, try to set careful boundaries, and not say anything you'll regret years later.

A hammock on a desert island sounding pretty good around about now eh?

Right?  i am sending an email that explains to her that I won't discuss divorce as I'm not aligning myself with it.  I will be proactive in protecting myself in the event she files.  She wants a list of what I want by tomorrow evening.  Not going there with her.  Feeds her narcissistic control tendencies.  I think she is just looking for a fight. Tired of the drama.  She can't live without it. 

So after the loong day two days ago that started with a phone call from my wife that stated she wanted a divorce (which I believe was a control issue since I wasn't speaking to her) and all over the map the rest of the day with saying one thing and then when agreeing to it, she would completely change the subject and not answer my text.  For instance, she asked if we could meet to exchange the laptop for the code, I gave her a time and place, then she responded with, "I've decided to keep the property where it is until the divorce is final."  That is the crap I'm tired of!  I realized how tired of that I was and sent her an email yesterday. Here it is:

Wife,

    After some time with God, I stand by one thing, God's truth.  I will repeat what I said yesterday.  None of what has been set in motion by the enemy regarding divorce is remotely of God nor is it honoring Him.  You don't have the Biblical grounds, I don't agree with it and I refuse to be in alignment with the demonic. 

    As the Word says in Mark 10:9, "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."   I won't stand in agreement with, or participate in, any words spoken against our marriage no matter whose lips they come from and neither should you.  In John 8 and 44 it calls the devil, "The father of lies... "  Any counsel received, anything spoken contrary to the Word of God regarding our marriage and what God has spoken over us is a lie and deception in its purest form.  You are responsible for whom you align yourself with, counsel you receive, and what you choose to do outside the covering of our marriage because this separation was solely your decision.  Make no mistake, we are still responsible for honoring our vows.

    I am making my stance clear today in several ways before God and you.  First, I won't discuss divorce with you on any level nor align myself with it.  I will protect myself proactively in the event that you do file, but understand, my peace and trust is in the Lord, not in man. Second, I was not put in your life to be a punching bag, but instead to be your husband and a father to our children.  God expects us to honor each other in all that we do.  I have honored you and our vows and have nothing to be ashamed of or feel guilty about.  I will no longer be your target for your past hurts, your anger, your abuse, your controlling behavior, your projections about yourself, lies about me to other people or your belittling.  These are non-negotiables in my life.  You don't have any right to treat me that way and never have.  I am a good man, a good father and I won't put up with it any longer.  Yes, I've made mistakes, but owned them, repented to God and you, sought counseling for them and turned the other way. 

    If you have nothing nice to say to me, good things to say about our children, nothing in regards to the reconciliation of our marriage, do not call, text or email me as there will be nothing to talk about.

    The decisions you make are yours and yours alone.  You can't blame anyone else for these.  I am choosing obedience to His will for our life, but you have choice.  God has given us all free will.  His word says, "Choose you this day whom you will serve."  I am not fearful regarding whatever decision you make because God is on my side and has given me wisdom, and the complete peace that passes all understanding.  Psalm 62:6 says, "He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defense; I shall not be moved."  I will continue to stand for His truth, our family and our marriage.

Husband

Since I sent it, she has posted a picture of the kids concert last night almost as a way to stick the knife in a little.  She has caused all this crap because of her unhealthiness and her children are the losers.  The one they call dad has been pushed out of their life because of her choices.  Honestly, it was nice to finally be honest with her about her behavior toward me as I never really told her.  She would always make it seem like my fault.     

Well, she called this morning and asked if I had time to talk.  I walked outside and she told me she could meet me tonight with the laptop in exchange for the PIN code.  I told her when I could meet and she agreed.  We will see if she sticks to it.  She also said that she wants to get marriage counseling but can't do it until she gets back from the cruise in two weeks.  I said that was fine.  We'll see if she actually sticks to it, especially with her mom and sister on vacation with her and her mom staying with her for a month.  Waiting to see if she actually means it before I get my hopes up.  Two days ago she said she wanted a divorce... .  

Anyway, during the conversation, she said we needed to be trustworthy and honest to rebuild a relationship.  I said, "I 100% agree with you."  She tried to say again how inconvenienced her kids were and how this has created hard feelings that I had locked up the family computer.  I did respond with, "I was inconvenienced when I had to drop my classes because you kept my laptop and when I had to change my pass... .She then cut me off.   I just let her talk.  Then she showed the real reason why she kept my laptop.  She made the statement, "I saw where you have been looking at BPD websites for a couple of months.  You need to worry about yourself.  You have worried too much about our marriage and haven't done enough work on yourself to be healthy (I almost laughed as I have been in counseling all three months we have been separated and 6 months before that).  I won't be your punching bag (same exact words I used in my email to her two days ago."  I just said I understand what you are saying and I'm sorry you feel that way."  She started to talk about bills and I said, "Let's discuss when we meet up with the laptop tonight."  She said, "No, I'm not doing that as we aren't doing well without a third party."  I wanted to say, "We seemed to be doing well when I was taking care of your needs and having sex, but that changed when you kept my laptop and you found the BPD stuff!".  Instead, I just said, "Ok".  She said she'd see me tonight and I said, "ok, see you then."

Good for you for not continuing playing ping pong with counter blaming

|iiii

Nope, I get tired of that and it always goes nowhere good.  No win situation at its finest!

So my wife texts and says, "I'm not going to make it tonight."  . Of course she's not.  I just responded with, "Ok thanks for trying".  Trying not to get pissed because how hard is it when we live 7 minutes apart to return a laptop and do what you say you are going to do.  So irritating... .just keeping with the good reaction... .

I gotta say, I'm impressed with your reaction to this, MaroonLiquid  |iiii

You did the right thing; what else could've changed anything for the better?

If there was one right reaction, this was it... .You are continuing to show her that you have changed and are being understanding and stable. Two very good qualities that should (eventually) impress her, if she's not already impressed!

I give you a virtual pat on the back    (that looks like a hug   )

Thanks for the pat on the back Rapt!  I have changed.  I am realizing it more and more and proud of myself.  I'll be honest, I was disappointed, but that's mine I have to deal with.  She did have some things to do tonight, so I respect that.  My first reaction was to go to the place of, "she is trying to control", but I'm making the decision not to go there.  Radical Acceptance.  When you love someone, actions speak louder than words... .

The more you force yourself to detach from personalizing and reacting negatively to everything she does, the easier it gets, you'll find.

Eventually it becomes second nature; the first pay-off is how we feel less stressed out when we realize that it's not all about us. The second pay-off is seeing our loved ones start to change too. When we see that happen--and sometimes it's just Tiny Little Changes (TLCs) we need to be aware of--it becomes a great positive reinforcement for us to continue this way.

Radical Acceptance  |iiii

ML,

Keep up good work.

Eventually you will get to talk with her in person.

What is your plan?  What things can you be prepared to validate for her.

My plan is to continue to work on myself, pray for my wife, spend time with my biological children while praying for hers (even though I call them mine), stay close to God and stay strong. 

As far as what I can be prepared to validate her for?  One is that she will be stressed over this cruise she is going on.  Every vacation or work trip that she leaves for is always stressful for her.  Other than that... .      :) :) :)

I just texted her about her doctor's appointment for a checkup for an ovarian cyst as I thought it was today.  I asked how she was feeling.  She responded that she was having some trouble and that is why she didn't meet me last night.

I responded that it is frustrating to have to continue to deal with that and that it has been on my heart the past few days and will continue to pray.  I asked if there was anything she needed.  No response yet.

 

When is the last time you met in person?

What is latest on the laptop?  

Last time we saw each other was 4 weeks ago tomorrow.  Read my previous post on the laptop.  She couldn't meet me... .Found out a few minutes ago by text why. 

 

Can you try to get away from text...

Maybe limit text to ask if she can talk on phone... .or if you can stop by... .

Using text to conduct r/s issues it tough... with a pwBPD... .not a good plan.

Hi Maroonliquid,

I can hear a lovely softness and caring in your most recent texts to your wife. They sound truly validating and that will really help soothe her in what you already know to be a stressful time for her. Anxieties will undoubtedly be running high for her this side of the vacation so you being able to offer calm, compassionate, simple responses and messages will go a long way toward helping both of you step out of your dysfunctional dance.  |iiii

I'm trying.  She responded with, "Yeah, it is frustrating" and then asked me about an issue with a bill.  I asked if she had a minute for me to call and she said she can only text as she is in two meetings.  I said ok, and asked if she was having lunch today and she said not today.  I said ok and that I would text when I got home.  I almost think at times she is trying to be difficult... .especiallyregarding getting together.  It always seems like it's on "her terms"

Hi MaroonLiquid,

I would be inclined to keep everything as LC, upbeat and positive this side of the vacation. Unless there really isn't something you can't leave until after, just push things back gently until then. This is a very brittle time for pwBPD as you know, the vacation stress will create possibilities for her to attach dysregulations to.

I can't remember when the holiday is, but maybe don't push the phone contact yet either. I agree with ff that talking is better than text, but it can wait, another week or two after the last four weeks will continue to allow things to settle further.

I'm just trying to feel her out and figure out her mood each time we communicate.  Won't push and won't respond negatively.  I think one issue is she continues to be upset with herself that I'm not going (because of her) and as it gets closer (two weeks), she gets even more upset, sad, angry, etc. and doesn't want to deal with the reminder by seeing me.  Punishing herself two ways.  Just trying to be understanding and let her work through it.

I am sure you will not be surprised if your wife starts to escalate things up over the next two weeks, she has caught herself between a rock and a hard place as you are already aware.

Like I said low key, low contact, steady as you go kind of approach will help her feel soothed emotionally. Talk to the feeling behind her words, ignore if you can the content, unless of course it is nice  :)

What you are doing now is really great. Kindness, compassion and understanding go a very long way toward re engaging someone who has gotten a little lost.

I would not be surprised to see that at all, in fact, I almost expect the escalation.  And this issue with a cyst she has could potentially put the trip in jeopardy if she has to have surgery. 

So ny wife and I texted back and forth for a little over an hour.  I kept it light talking about the kids, sent her a picture that our youngest son wanted to send her (which she loved and said to tell him she misses him), and I was able to validate her twice.  Once regarding a work situation and another for her doctors appointment coming up.  She reacted well to both and it was a blessing!   :).  We stopped texting after the second one and just left it alone to marinate.  Thank God for the good days!  It's kind of like golf.  You have that one shot per round that keeps you coming back.   :) |iiii

 

Just out of curiosity... .why not stop texting and call her... .? 

I planned on it this evening.  Trying to take it slow.  Protecting myself, showing strength, and don't want to come across as needy or push her away.  Trying to be that safe place in her life. 

Really great MaroonLiquid  |iiii  |iiii

So I texted her and asked if she wanted to go to get some ice cream and she said she was alone.  I said I have my kids and she said she would love to see them.  I asked if she wanted us to pick her up or bring some to her.  She didn't answer so I called her and she said she didn't want to go.  I asked if she wanted to go or bring her something and she said no, she was just going to watch a movie.  I asked if she was sure and she said yes.  I said ok, I understand, then asked how she was feeling.  She said she has had a bad couple of days.  I told her that I know it's hard for her when she is hurting or not feeling well and that I was here if she needed anything.  She didn't respond, and I asked if she wanted me to let her go and she said yes so she could finish watching the movie.  I said ok, no problem. Have a good night.  She said ok and we hung up.  We have been texting since about other stuff.  Nothing serious.  It's been a very good day communicating with her.  Thank the Lord. 

 

Part of the "problem" with texting... .is it allows her to keep some "push" or "distance" yet still communicate with you.


If that is why she is doing it.

I won't keep harping on the point about texting being bad... .a lot of that is my personal experience... .but as long as she can get her communication needs met via text... .she will shy away from the rest.

If she can talk on the phone... but not meet in person... she will do that... .

Most likely.

Just a thought...

Continuing to sound great, no pressure, upbeat, validating. Moved from text to phone without any hitches.

Slowly does it MaroonLiquid  |iiii

It's great to hear your day was better, that talking to your wife was better today.

I texted my wife this morning to ask how she was feeling with no response.  So I called her about an hour ago (didn't answer and figured she probably wouldn't) and left a message to see if they wanted to go to a movie with us or watch a game together. She texted back a few minutes later and said they were busy tonight.  I responded with, "Ok, You're welcome".  I think she doesn't want to answer the phone in front of the kids.  Part of the hole she has dug for herself.  Anyway, kind of irritating we communicate all day yesterday and very little today.  I'm trying to see her in person and she is balking at the moment... .oh well.  Won't let it bother me... .Her issue not mine

Did you go to the movie anyway? 

You don't want to give the impression you are "chasing".  If you tell her you are going to do something... and ask her along... .and you go anyway... .that really isn't chasing.  If you ask her but because she won't go... .you don't go... then things are dependent on her.

Of course I went.  It wasn't dependent upon her, just gave her the opportunity. 

can someone explain the cycle of contact for a full day with validating and everything, and then she pulls away again.  Tried to invite her along this weekend, once she said no, and the other she had plans with our daughter and friends (which I understand). It doesn't really affect me emotionally anymore, as I can just let her have space, but curious, is that part of the push/pull, her having to deal with emotions or what?  Maybe it doesn't make any sense, I don't know.  Just continue to be the steady boat in her life that doesn't waver. 

So I post what a great weekend on I had with my kids on Facebook and my wife posts on hers shortly after about how her kids are fatherless.  She kicked me out of their lives.  She caused all this and them to be fatherless!  Are you kidding me?  That pisses me off!  Venting here!

Just had a moment of clarity regarding her Facebook post.  She is feeling horribly guilty that after reading mine, the only father her kids have ever known and they have loved have been cut out of their lives by her.  I texted her and asked her if I could stop by and talk for a few minutes and she responded with, "Please do not come to my house."  I said, ok, can I call later then?"  She said, "No.  Please just leave me alone."  I responded with, "I can see you are upset about something.  I'm here for you when you are ready to talk about it.  Whatever it is, we can work through it together."  Her response was, "I'm not upset about anything, just don't want to be bothered tonight."  I just said, "ok have a good night."  She isn't going to get a response out of me.  I won't respond with anything but kindness and understanding.  God has changed me and won't let it affect me... .

What I would say:

Old way (it won't help calm him down, but it will at least take the divorce out of question)

- I want a divorce

- I do not want a divorce, but if you want it - please do all the paperwork :-)

Now I'd rather say something like this:

- I want a divorce

- No, you don't

Chances are I'd hear something like a sigh of relief : "Right, I don't"

If he still insists on wanting a divorce (right now and here, yeah), I'd suggest him to do all the paperwork, because why should I do it, if I don't want a divorce?

Divorce is a long story, most probably he'd change his mind much before he can finish the preparations... .

How often does she initiate a text to you... .versus how often do you reach out to her?

What kind of a "reaction" did she get from you about posting about kids being fatherless... .?

Last week and a half, she would initiate conversation with a phone call to my office (which I thought was strange, but whatever).  Then we would text throughout the day (started by her).  Thursday we were supposed to meet with the laptop, but didn't happen.  Friday, I texted her first about her appointment, and we ended up texting all day.  At the end of the day, I invited her to get some ice cream with my kids (said she would love to see them) and she turned me down.  I said ok, have a good night.  Saturday, I asked how she was feeling with no response, and then called later in the day (no answer and left a message) and invited them to the movie with us, and she texted and said they already had plans.  Just said ok, no problem. 


It pissed me off internally at first, cried a little and then let it go.  I then called later (no answer and left a message) and tried to include her again, and she said no.  And then the "do not come by my house, leave me alone, and don't want to be bothered" texts.  Again, said ok, have a good night.  Honestly, after that, I am kind of done inviting her or putting myself out there anymore with her.  I'm the one that is trying to make things better.  I have changed my responses to her crap and being rejected as I realize these are her issues.   Her kids are "fatherless" because of her.  I'm back in the place mentally now (where I was two weeks ago) that she needs to start making an effort.  I realize her push/pull crap started.  She wants contact, then pulls away.  I'm tired of it.

One more thing, we haven't seen each other in 4 1/2 weeks this time... .:'(

So she contacts me first thing this morning and asked if I could keep them on my insurance as hers is too expensive (gave me a breakdown) and she would pay me for half of the cost.  I said sure, no problem.  I think she is scared of breaking every tie to me (which is not what I want either).  I can't decide if I'm ok with it since it costs me the same with or without them, or if she is playing me... .

this was your chance to say... .let's meet and discuss this.

You are choosing to allow her to get what she wants without a personal interaction. 

The only way to understand if playing is to see in person... .

But... .she gets what she wants without that... .so... she gets what she wants... .

What happened with the car note payment thing?  Has she asked?  Have you paid it?

She is playing you, (though she might not know it) and deluding herself to the reality of what she is asking for when he says she wants a divorce. In effect she is playing at wanting a divorce, staying in a kind of "victim limbo" zone

She is paying her own car note.


What do you mean?

How did the paying her car note thing go down?  Did she ask... or did you step up and tell her.

I'll let waverider speak for his point.

My point is that the interaction that you just had... .the dealmaking about who is paying what... .sounds and "feels" (to me) like something divorced people do.

People that are still in a r/s get together and talk over things... .sure they talk dollars and cents but there is more.

If you want a r/s with her... .then you have to "play the cards" that you have.  One of those cards is that she gets nothing out of you that she wants/needs unless she has a r/s with you.  Meeting for coffee... .laughing... talking... .having pleasant conversation.  Going for a walk afterward.  etc etc.  That can happen even while living apart... .you just want to set momentum up towards more of a r/s.

Right now... .you have a digital/phone r/s.  Nothing in person.  She placed a call and got her issues solved... .

My gut says she is in a "happy place"... .or "content place... " in doing this and is making other excuses to keep you away... .

So... .I see this as choice time for you.  If you are ok with limbo going on for another long period of time... .a "digital only" r/s... .then keep going the way you are.

If you want a r/s... .make sure all your choices force her hand to spend time with you.

Note:  She may decide to go ahead and file for divorce... .or she may decide she wants you back... .or... .she may decide to just go NC... .I'm sure there are other alternatives.  Anyway... .my gut says that "something" will happen.

Right now... .you seem to have a pattern established... .and she shows no signs of wanting to end that pattern.

Do you want to end the pattern?

Hang tough... .! 

So should I say I've rethought this and she will need to meet me in person to talk about this as I feel I'm being used... .

I would leave off your feelings... .the part about being used.

Propose to meet to discuss insurance issues.  Make sure you have some forms or something to bring along.

Also... I'd wait until tomorrow to let other senior members post to this thread... .to make sure you get some good variety of opinion and advice on best way forward... .

So after no communication, I sent my wife this... .

Wife, after thinking more about your request regarding insurance, I have decided that there are issues that need to be resolved between us before I can agree to keep you guys on my insurance.  We will need to meet to discuss this.  I will call you this evening and we can discuss a day this week to meet. 

She then started to ask me what the issues are.  I didn't answer and she started to dysregulate and said, "Nevermind husband, I am thankful that my company offers insurance and I'll just get it through them."  I had to LOL as she told me earlier she couldn't afford it.  I said, "Help me to understand why you won't meet me in person?"  After a few minutes of no response, I said, "Ok wife, have a good night".  She then started to go nuts on text and dysregulated and even used the Bible verse, "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." against me.  lol And then she started to use earlier texts against me. I never responded.  But I see what formflier is talking about now!

I'd say that this is just using the divorce as this phase of the 'normal' push-pull game. Trying to control how far away you are from her, wanting to reel you in one time and push you away the next.

(of course, wavewrider can speak for himself, and will if I didn't get what he was thinking.)

I totally agree.  Called her bluff on the divorce.  That was last week.  But today, she asked me to keep her and the kids on my insurance (as hers was too expensive) and then I sent the text in my previous post this evening.

Is this about "using earlier texts against you?" 

Hey... .listen... .overall I think you are doing a great job.  So... .just wanted to clarify that any suggestions or "criticism" of your tactics are trying to "refine" things.

I still think that you are a bit to "wordy"... .

"Let's meet to discuss insurance status... "  short a sweet... .the rest of the stuff is a bit "jadey"

Thoughts?

yes, the previous texts were used against me.  When I told her that we needed to meet, she threw up the "I love being able take care of my family" text earlier in the day, and the the "issued that need to be resolved" text from late in the evening saying I was double-minded!   :)  No, I'm just not going to be used.  Right now, she is ok with having all the benefits of marriage without any of the responsibility.  That is crossing a value line with me and I won't bend on it.  You are either married and working on reconciliation or we're separated.  I would ask her, which is it?  I would say she has been the one that is double minded... .Total projection.  She doesn't want a divorce, just doesn't want to deal with all the crap she has created... .I can see how the rest is "jade'y" though... .I can't fix that though, just have to let her come back to me at this point.  She knows I want to keep them on my insurance, just won't let her take advantage anymore.  Still hasn't given me the laptop for God's sake and the issue hasn't come up since last week.  I'm trying to make things better and she is still trying to have the advantage... .

I just remembered that the "family cruise" that I was cut out of is leaving next week.  I think this is where a lot of her drama is coming from right now.  She is looking for an outlet it seems.  Maybe that is why the insurance thing came up... .She is looking for assurance that I will be here when she gets back?

I would avoid asking her a question like that... .unless you are ready for a take it or leave it moment.  pwBPD usually don't react well when put in corner like that... .

I wasn't, that was a joke/vent.  What about all the drama lately surrounding the vacation?  Seems there is a lot of anxiety about leaving in our current situation.  Is that something I should try and confront (obviously SET wise) or wait till she contacts me?  

*mod*

This thread has been locked due to reaching its post limit. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are encouraged to start a new thread to continue the conversation if you would like to... .