BPDFamily.com

So,

I'm trying something different.  What did I do that was the most heartless and horrible thing in my relationship.  Reading alot of posts at the moment and sort of trying to see where I fit in to everything, I can see a lot that she did to me however trying to understand my role. 

Going to have to think about this as well, I can think of a few things I am not proud of. 

1. I wasn't the best active listener.  Can't explain it other than I now know my listening skills haven't always been the best. 

2. I told her she was neglecting our son.  (It is true, I still shouldn't have said it to her)

I'm going to have to add to this.  Think about it a bit. 


AJJ. 

Why do you feel you shouldn't have pointed out that she was neglecting your son?  The idea of being a parent is that you prioritise the child's needs before your own wants.  As co-parent I think you are within your rights to say something if she isn't meeting your child's needs effectively.

What she does in her time is her issue. 

Was I within my rights, hell yes. 

Was it the correct thing to do... .

Point is, it isn't a blame game here, that just keeps the cycle of conflict going.  She is who she is and I cant change her, I want to get someone to say she is neglecting our sons emotional needs I get a profesional to do it not me. 


AJJ> 

The consistent thing I did, after the bliss ended and the wheels fell off, was to use 'protest behavior' which is something people with anxious attachment styles like me do when things aren't OK and we're not expressing ourselves clearly and openly.  It wouldn't have changed the outcome in that relationship, but it's been a real focus since, to show up with the traits of a more secure attachment style.  Something to think about... .

I called her a racist name. I kept getting accused of being racist. All because I mocked a madea movie. And I screamed at her towards the end.

HtH, please explain protest behavior. Guess I'm heartless bad guy because I didn't spend enough time with her. Or buy her things. Or take her on vacay's. Guess what I'm trying to say is it really didn't matter. Once your split and devalue starts, you could rescue a building full of puppies from a fire and your the worst guy ever.

Protest behavior is what someone may do to avoid a real issue, ultimately a weak response to a feeling.  Say you are feeling neglected or ignored in a relationship.  If you tried to make your partner jealous, had a crying or rage fit, or gave them the silent treatment, that would be protest behavior.  A secure way to handle it would be to say to your partner "I'm feeling neglected right now and it's bothering me, and I need your support" or something to that effect.  What a concept, open, honest communication.  Go figure.  Of course that wouldn't work with a borderline, which is why it's time for an upgrade.

I tried being open, honest and gentle. That makes it worse I think. I still got blamed for being judgemental. And believe me I was careful because thought we were soul mates.

You were on the right track, you just picked the wrong partner.  It's important to keep what we knew was right as we add new knowledge and boundaries, so we end up with someone who can sustainably reciprocate.

I honestly think she is evil. I don't say that lightly.

Oh wow, that explanation is very eye opening for me. I can see how I have had a lot of protest behavior over the years.

I don't know if it is because I have been with my husband so long or what but I do know that my behavior in the last couple of years has been less than stellar. As I read a lot of the threads about how the person with BPD behaves, I can see a lot of those behaviors in myself. But, I do know that I tried to be open and honest about my feelings back in the beginning and at other times. The protest behavior began as an attempt to try to get his attention. Being direct and open and honest didn't work so I resorted to passive/aggressive behaviors. There are times when I have been down right mean to him.

I wasn't listening.

I blamed her for the problems in our marriage. It's easier to blame someone else than to own up.

I didn't know about BPD and we had many fighting matches where I wanted my voice to be heard. I wasn't proud of my anger.

We have two ears and one mouth, so we should listen more than we say.

A lesson I won't forget.

Yep, protest behavior comes out of our attachment styles, something we had before we met our exes, they just triggered them.  The good news is getting in a relationship with someone with a more secure style can make us more secure, so we can stay in the open communication mode.  Interesting and fruitful to see our part in the proceedings, and what we need to do to upgrade.

I think for myself. 

Those things during the relationship, the whole escalation of behaviours.  It occured and I was a part of it.  Somethign I want to change in the future.  I have a prefrence to de-escalating and tryign to solve someone elses problem rather than looking at my own end of the problems.  Co-dependance and all of that jazz~

End of the day.  I own that.  I wasn't a very good active listener.  That is something that defined my role in the relationship. 


AJJ. 

From her point of view it will be 'chucking her out of the house' which is true, except that before that the police had taken her away, she has been sectioned and refuses to take any medication for schizophrenia. We were married so she thinks 'in sickness and in health', personally I don't agree, if someone has a sickness and abuses you yet refuses to take prescribed medication that is languishing in sickness and being a burden to your partner.

From my point of view, the worst thing I ever did to her was being an enabler, she wasted 7 years of her life too.

The worst thing I said or did was that I agreed with her or took her side just to avoid getting in conflict with her. I should have been more honest and less tolerant.

On the other hand, that should have reduced our 20 year relationship to a two week one.

Edit:

I did have a hard time tolerating her hypochondria and over sensitive to this and that. In the second half of our relationship I couldn't help but say what I thought - that it wasn't nearly as bad as it was in her mind. I suppose it was very invalidating. But she was kind of immune to the "T" part of SET, so I saw no other way really.

I couldn't. She would just run me over to the point where were I would just take it. Part of my problem. She dumped almost 5 months ago. Then this, the Funniest thing happened. Her instagram went suddenly public. Its been private forever. She liked something a mutual friend posted so I clicked it like a dumbass and low and behold, theres a pic of her and the new guy. Sucked the life out of me. I then got misty, and calm. They looked happy so I commented "glad your happy,... .good bye my love". 20 minutes later I get a text from her:  Please delete your comment on my picture.  I'm not sure why you did that.  It's very passive aggressive.  If you have something to say to me then say it.  Don't leave a message on my Instagram picture.

I replied to her text with:

I was genuine in my comment. Nothing bad was meant by it, so please drop the ego. I am happy that your happy and I have no animosity towards you and I'm happy your in a good place. Talk to you later.

So this is what you get folks. Anger and name calling when you only wish the best for a person you truly loved. She can go to hell.

At our first meet after I broke up with her we got in a verbal fight. We actually just wanted to try out as friends, got drunk at then got in an argument. When she was being very rude and cold I just left her standing there and walked away without saying goodbye or anything. Half an hour later I texted her that I didn't need "people like her" in my life. Right after I'd written it I felt so sorry for walking away and writing something like that so I apologized big time. Now with all the knowledge of their fear of abandonment and their shame and guilt I really feel bad. I guess I really hurt her with my behaviour. After that incident we recycled as friends with benefits but from that moment on the real abuse started. When we are in the relationship I "only" witnessed the silent treatment, after our argument it all went downhill and she got really nasty with her abuse. So I guess I was right when telling her that I didn't need people like her in my life. I just should've told her in a friendlier way and should've stick to it.

The worst thing I ever did to my uBPDh was probably having no boundaries around his treatment of me. That allowed him to continue those behaviors for yeeeeears and think they were okay.

I enabled

I was codependent

I was enmeshed

I did get really snotty with him in the last few years when he acted like physical contact with me was worse than eating bugs, I was so hurt and angry at the rejection. But that did help me realize that I had allowed his what-I-thought-was-attraction to me form my own self-image. My self-image needs to stand on its own, not be created by how someone else looks at me.

But I know that all the things where I was weak in the relationship kept him comfortable so he didn't try to fix anything of his own.

I loved her, was a real friend, and told her the truth.

None of those were wrong or the worst. Each triggered her.

In the end it didn't really matter what I did or didn't do.

She makes it up as she goes. Sees and lives in disordered ways.

Changes her mind/ her mind changes her. Projects to her detriment.

The game's not over, she's just playing somewhere else.

I wouldn't let myself cry with her and in front of her.  Enstead I pushed her away and judged her to avoid feeling the pain when the truth is I love her.

This brings up something else that I have started doing recently. I think it is because I feel emotionally done. But, I cannot stand physical contact with him right now. He rejected me for so many years and has done so many things that I have reached a point where the thought of his touch makes me cringe.

I definitely need to be reminded that my self-image needs to stand on its own!

During our first breakup when we were just dating,  I warned the new woman about him anonymously.  I am not sure if I broke them up or if his usual behavior did, but he came back to me after about 3 weeks. I was reeled back in and was convinced I had misjudged him the first time around. Turns out I was right about him, but I have always been ashamed I contacted that woman. I never told him I did it either.

For me,

A lot of hard thought.  I acted immaturely as well.  I didn't listen properly as I mentioned above however I didn't show enough respect to myself like DF mentions I allowed myself to be walked all over.  The worst thing I think I did was I allowed myself to be a doormat. 

Like BB, I closed up shop around her, didn't open up about my feelings and I think I can see it a bit here with everyone.  Worst thing, lost respect for myself and along the way her.  Without respect the rest is really quite mundane. 

One that trust and honesty is lost the rest was just a side show.  When I stopped opening up and being honest with my own feelings and emotions that was when I stopped listening to her as well.  Something I will have to remember for the future. 

Thoughts


AJJ. 

Absolutely became a doormat. She would start her your a bad boyfriend speech and I would either A. Agree totally B. Water down my response C. Apologize profusely D. Head down say nothing.

Damn shame I was emasculated like that out of fear of being alone.

I don't know if it's off topic, but I was like that too, especially in the first half of our relatioship.

In fact I have been like that for much of my life - someone would bark and I would back down, regardless if I was right or wrong. Now I realize it has been used against me so much.

I know both my ex wife and her dad could reason like that - that it wasn't about who was right and who was wrong. It was about how far you could push someone. You take your position and then you fight.

If a person like that confronts a person like me (who is full is doubt and constantly re-considers andre re-evaluates), I don't stand a chance.

I need to have conversations with people who are engaged in dialogue. Borderlines use words and argumentation to attack and move their positions forward. This realisation was awful for me and it was awfully depressing to understand that it was not going o change.

Engaging and communicating in dialogue is normal and sound and I don't regret prefering that. What I regret is not walking away or disengaging when someone has tried to engage me in a "friendship" that involves verbal attacks.

This is  pattern I have had as well at times, though my life.   

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=206736.0

Something I found helpful, there is detaching from the cycle of conflict however knowing how to express yourself in a non-blaming and non-judgemental way is a great skill.  For all of us, well for me!  I lost this skill whilst in the relationship. 

Worth a read IMO hergestridge. 

You dont have to argue just live your values, if you communicate it properly, get it across.  If the other party chooses not to listen that is on them not on you.   |iiii


AJJ. 

AAARRRGGGHHH! I RESEMBLE THAT REMARK!


AAAARRRGGHH! and I relate to this SOO MUCH.

I think this whole doormat thing is why I didn't think I was doing the wrong things--I didn't understand boundaries, and being full of doubt I would let my h convince me I was the one who was screwed up.

These things allow our pwBPD to continue and be comfortable. No Bueno.

Indeed. I got the your a bad boyfriend speech so much, i thought i was. Im not perfect by any means, but i loved her and those kids as best as i could. Wasnt good enough. I wasnt good enough.

Was it really fear of being alone Deeno?  For me it was fear that she might be right, that nagging inner doubt, which sparked a desire to prove her, and myself, wrong.  Not a bad drive really, except I was playing a game that was rigged and didn't know it at the time, until it got so painful I saw no choice but to take my ball and go home.


As long as you also realize that it is impossible to be "good enough" with a borderline; if you were you wouldn't be serving your purpose.

I believe it is/was. One thing I'm working on with my T. I don't mind alone, but I miss the couple aspect. The partner. I was an only child, left alone a lot and mom worked all the time so even when she was home she was too crapped out to do anything. When my wife left and broke up our family, I was empty. 15 months later, there she is and I didn't want to blow it and have her leave either. So I sucked it up and dealt with it. No boundaries, total door mat. Plus I felt I was in love with her. I know now that I was good enough at the TIME, but that wore off and I became a hinderence

I can relate to this very much!  He found those insecurities in me and exploited them.  By the end I had zero faith in myself or my own thoughts and feelings.  It was truly a miracle that I got the hell out of there!

Yep.  I have an anxious attachment style Pingo, and learning that and how it meshes with a borderline has been profound for me, even beyond personality disorders to folks in general, specifically ones with avoidant styles; you might check that out if you haven't yet.  Bottom line we need lots of assurances in relationships, and someone who exploits our insecurities is exactly the opposite of what we need.  of course the other piece is boundaries; people only screw with us when we let them.

Deeno's focus is different, one that involves not being alone primarily, and as per usual, things mean what we make them mean, a matter of focus and beliefs.  Isn't it great that we're all digging into this stuff?  Something to thank our exes for, motivation to dig and grow; it's a brand new world!

fromheeltoheal, I have read 3 books now on attachment theory and I STILL don't really know what mine is lol.  Or actually what my ex's was.  He seemed to be 'anxious' as he was always wanting me nearby, controlling me, etc.  But at the same time he was so secretive and kept things from me, giving me ST a lot, which would be 'avoidant'.   But it doesn't matter what he was or what I am, I will know by my gut what feels right and what feels wrong and I just have to listen to it.  I know I am insecure and need consistency so if someone doesn't show me this, I'll feel it right away.  I already got a 'test run' of this a while back and my gut was spot on!  :)

Makes sense. Although I think she played on me as well. When it seemed like I may have been pulling away or trying a boundary, I would get the bad boyfriend speech. Wow! Putting the pieces together. Clever people how they have so many facets of manipulation. What a moron I was.

You weren't a moron (or else we all were morons)!  You had a vulnerability and she found it and exploited it.  Now you are aware of it and can take care of yourself better.

If it wouldn't have been that, it may well have been something else.

That's on her, not you. Remember, you were also in the FOG back then.

Much of clearing that away is seeing yourself through your eyes, not hers.

The worst thing i've said to her was that everyone would be better off without her and that she should commit suicide, to which i thereafter (and still do) referred to as her "doing the right thing". I still feel this away and would not shed one tear if she went through with it. There would be a joyous relief of never having to deal with her again.

I recongnize that. I was kind of stuck with my wife for the last couple of years because I scared of her getting custody of our baby daughter (even half custody would have been a disaster).

When she committed herself because she was suicidal, I told calmly told her "Yeah, you'd better do that". I was not one bit upset or (frankly) compassionate.

When she was in hospital I wished they would keep her. I was called in to attend some kind of "talk" when she was to be discharged and I must have come across as terribly indifferent.

I regret being like that to someone, but I was kind of cornered really.

Yes, our gut is never wrong, we just choose to listen to it or not, and I voluntarily ignored it in my relationship with a borderline, even though it was screaming at me.  It's called gut feel and not gut thought for a reason though, it speaks to us in feelings not thoughts, and sometimes more info can be useful, it can help our head, heart and gut get on the same page.

A personality disorder is not an attachment style, so trying to put a borderline, a relatively small percentage of the population, into an attachment style is counterproductive, since they're all over the map.  But the thing I like about attachment styles is everyone has one, 100% of the population, so the odds are much greater that we'll get with someone complementary, instead of those pesky PD's, now that we're all educated and experienced and such.

So in a nutshell, people with anxious styles are anxious about the relationship, how their partner feels, and whether or not the bond is strong, so we need assurances.

People with avoidant styles, as the label implies, avoid intimacy and closeness, and want 'space' and independence.

And people with secure styles want intimacy and emotional closeness, but aren't anxious about it, and express their wants and needs openly and easily.  And people with secure styles are the majority.

There's more to it than that, but not much, and the bottom line is an anxious/avoidant paring is a bad mix, with neither partner getting their needs and wants met sustainably.  A borderline in devaluation mode acts very avoidant, which is why I got so anxious, although a personality disorder is a whole lot more than an attachment style, so although the traits of an avoidant style were there for a time, that doesn't really count.

Sidebar: I had a girlfriend 30 years ago who was married for a long time and got divorced, and I had left my borderline ex, so we got together, me looking for validation, compassion and empathy, the things I didn't get from the borderline and needed.  I wasn't looking to try and rekindle anything, I was just looking for a friend to talk to, but discovered I wasn't getting what I needed from her because although she doesn't have the traits of a personality disorder, she has an avoidant style, which was off-putting for me but also explained to me why we didn't work out 30 years ago.  This stuff is valuable moving forward.

My first date with my ex, I was telling myself all the way home she was crazy. Lol I don't have any clue why I called her the next day.

'Crazy' can be exciting. Intoxicating.

Until we get too caught up or hurt by it.

And until it brings out too much of our own.

Instinct and skill got me through numerous combat tours. My love life? Yeah, not so much... .lol

I don't know that these are the "worst" things I said or did... .but there are two things I think about a lot.

One is that I think I was invalidating, especially in the last year of our relationship.  I didn't know she was BPD, and therefore wasn't aware of the "facts are feelings" dynamic.  So I kept trying to convince her of things... .especially when her feelings colored her memories of an event, which I now know is quite common. I wish I had known "SET" techniques back than.

The other is that I spent the last year trying to figure out what was "wrong" with her.  I began to recognize her "parts of self" (vulnerable child, impulsive/angry child, detached protector, etc.) but because she was describing some memory loss at the time I thought she might have DID. She picked up on my tendency to analyze her and became understandably uncomfortable with it. I mean, I sure as hell wouldn't want anyone in my life analyzing me.  But I'm not too hard on myself about any of it at this point... .she was on round 2 (3? 4?) of her cheating, and was lying compulsively.

I should have just bailed.

The strangest thing to me is that I am NOT a doormat - I'm an assertive person.  And for the first four years of our relationship, that's definitely who I was. 

But after the infidelity everything changed. Not only were we financially tied together at that time, but if I had kicked her out after the cheating (which would have typically been my default response, I think), she would have taken my step-daughter with her. I loved my SD and didn't want to send her off to live with her mother; god only knows what parade of her mother's relationships she would have had to endure through her teenage years.  As it was, when she was a toddler she had to live through years of one of her mother's physically violent partners. I couldn't draw that boundary, that "if you do it again you're out" line in the sand without sacrificing my SD. And once I didn't do it the first time, it's almost like it was a license for her to do what she pleased. Over time my assertiveness eroded... .I became anxious and stressed.

God, what a horrible way to live.

Remind me again of what exactly it is that I miss?... .

Oh boy. The list may be too long to put down in one go. I will fully admit, I was not a good boyfriend the first time we got together. I was kind of a jerk. I was hypocritical, irresponsible, selfish, and immature. So here we go.

• At the end of our relationship, I would go out to a bar after work and flirt with other women. Never actually cheated on her, but it was wrong, and it would have devastated her if she found out.



• I ignored her when she needed me.



• I refused to make nice with her sister and put my ex in the middle of our fights.



• I yelled at her. I mean a lot. It's how I was raised with my dad. I didn't really have an appreciation for how traumatic it can be for other people that aren't used to it.



• I absolutely refused to lose a fight with her. My focus was on being right, instead of trying to fix problems.



• I called her quite a few names that I regret.



• I acted without regard for how my actions would affect her or our relationship.

I really did play my part in the relationship being bad. And I did a lot of things I wish I could have taken back.

I said the worst thing to my ex I've ever said to anyone.  Actually, it probably is the worst thing I've ever done in my life.

My ex had said something hurtful to me one night when she was probably dysregulating (I knew nothing about BPD at the time), and in anger I shot back with something unimaginably hurtful.  Something from her past that she had done, was extremely ashamed about, and had shared with me in the deepest of confidence and trust - and I threw it in her face in the most awful of ways.  As soon as I said it I bitterly regretted it, but some words can't be taken back.  I will never forget the look of pain on her face and the sadness in her eyes.  She was crushed.  In my anger I had went for the jugular and I'd found it.

She forgave me for it, but I don't know that I've ever been able to forgive myself.  I'd give anything to take it back.  It was a truly heartless and cruel thing to do, especially to someone who deeply loved me and trusted me.  That was really the only mean and hurtful thing I ever did in our relationship, but it was a seriously awful one.

The moral: be careful of what you say and think before you speak.  Some words really can't ever be taken back and some words can hurt more than any physical blow.

After I caught her cheating I called her an "unadultured piece of trash" and told her all she was to people was a "piece of meat" and she would continue to be until she found a better best friend and learned how to "become a lady".  I also sent sex pictures to the guy she cheated with and followed that up with an email to her about BPD. I was just as crazy as her at this point. I was sane enough to know that the only way I was going to get away from her was to piss her off enough to move on. I regret that I did this but it worked. She called the cops on me and we haven't spoken since.

I can relate to this, I never went that far as to message them.  She has called the cops on me accusing stalking etc. 

Still haven't been interviewed, still hasn't been followed up by Police.  It was funny when she was accusing me of all of that stuff, I

Funny how these relationships bring out the worst in you.  Certainly did in me. 


AJJ. 

My big regret is that I accepted and put up with behaviours I never should have put up with. I helped reinforce his bad behaviour. I was an enabler and this added so much fuel to his BPD. The behaviours that make it worse - I think I did them all, and that was down to me and my issues, not him.

The last 3-4 years of my marriage I don't look back on with much pride at my behaviour. I got so worn out by his behaviour that I sort of just gave up. I became passive aggressive, with holding, non communicative. Not a person that anyone would have wanted to be with. I am ashamed when I look back but I also think I was at the end of my rope. I had been told so much that I was this awful person, that I thought - heck might as well be that person.

Lots of things I would like to be able to change, now I just work on accepting and forgiving myself and my ex.

I did something similar when she was trying to get me jealous talking about the married guy she was chasing to replace me. I told her the only thing she has to offer to anyone is sex. She had a mini-melt down and started crying saying that i was right. It was pretty weird.

I don't really have much to regret about my own behavior, but did once call her by her mother's name (intentionally).

I thought her head was going to explode.  :)

I actually had to read this a couple of times because when I look back my love life was somewhat equal to being my "combat tours."

(not to be flip.) lol

Your not... .Just wish I would have listened to my gut. I wouldnt be in this mess... .

You didn't then but you certainly will now! The lessons we are learning, right? Even though we didn't ASK to learn anything? We are growing. We will be stronger.

God, wish I had your motivation DF. I still feel like Ive been run over by a tank!... lol

Honestly Deeno, I often feel that way too. I just have to keep giving myself pep-talks!

*mod*

This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .