BPDFamily.com

A few people here have told me I have too much anxiety. My ex does scary things but then I hear about what some people go through on here, my stuff doesn't seem so bad. Tonight my ex called the kids 7 times in a row just to annoy me. (They're toddlers so I have to put them on the phone instead of letting them get it). I wrote about this on another thread. I am tempted to have my lawyer send a letter or something - but that seems extreme. I read things from people on here whose exes do drugs or drive drunk. I guess some people are better at setting boundaries than I am.  I could have stopped taking the calls.  I did, actually, but then he started texting to ask why I didn't put the kids on.  I can just turn the phone off but I'm scared he might do that someday when he has the kids.

He also threatened to fire our parent counselor 12 hours after we saw her for the first time.  I have enough stuff documented to try to take him to court, but I have so much of the parenting time as it is, then it would only be to kind of shut him up, and that seems extreme.

Yet, I feel so harassed that it's hard for me to focus on the kids or enjoy my time with them. I feel like it's going to slip by and I'm going to feel bad I wasn't at my best.

I know I have a right to enjoy my time with them, but maybe I just need to detatch more?

I also have this fear of taking things to court and putting us in a much more high conflict situation while we wait months for the case to be heard. He gets much worse when triggered. The whole time we're waiting for the case, he'll still be taking the kids and that will scare me. I told our old PC I'd only go back to court if I had him under supervisited visitation first. But you need to prove immediate harm to do that (or at least convince a judge). There is that possibility but it's a lot to do.

For those who hear me whining here a lot, I'm sorry.

I guess my choices are to detatch, or do something - Whining here doesn't do much.  It's just hard to decide the right route for me and the kids and I DO have to put them first, not only think about what annoys me. We started with a new PC but she hasn't responded to my last email yet and she's just starting.

I think that type of harassment would drive anyone anxious!

7 times is abuse. Does the stipulation specify unfettered access? If he talked to them once, then that should be enough. You did what was required.

I remember my Ex was calling more than once per day after she moved out, and also texting ("are the kids ok?". I was conditioned to answer because after dealing with six years of her object constancy issues regarding me, it seemed normal.

I put up a boundary, though it took a month or more of constant reinforcement, and it finally dwindled off. We have a "gentlemens' agreement" that if the kids want to call the other parent, then we will oblige. 

In your case, however, you have it written into the stipulation. That doesn't give him carte balance to abuse it. I can't imagine any court finding seven calls acceptable if he had talked to them once.

It says unfettered. But of course that's too much. He sends texts saying he didn't actually talk to them, when he did. There are periods where he stops doing this for a few weeks, then it starts again.

I would get this documentation in front of the judge as soon as possible and let the judge define "reasonable access" to your x and set the boundaries for you.   

Divorce means you no longer have to be an emotional hostage to them or be made responsible for their bad behaviors.  If you can't sever it, let the judge do it for you.

I wouldn't be too concerned about what he "says". There is cold hard evidence (phone records) that show he talked to the kids. What are the recording laws in your state? You could record the phone conversations if it is legal, or record the children talking on the phone to him. (in our state it's illegal to record calls but you can video yourself making the call i.e. record only your side of the conversation).

Our CO specifies one phone call a night between 7:45pm and 8:15pm. At one point our temp order specified the duration as well.

My DH's x would call his phone repeatedly at all hours of the day and night, completely unrelated to my SD. She would rage and abuse him via texts. He blocked her, no more texts. He only communicates by email then Our Family Wizard. Now the only time she calls is to return a missed call from SD. She rarely slips and sends texts, when she does he doesn't respond by text (only by email/OFW).

Cutting out the phone contact/texts has helped him: not fire back negative responses when she's provoking him or to her rages, have hard evidence for documentation, and it just gives him more peace because he can wait to read/respond to her messages when he's in a good frame of mind, instead of having her constantly barraging him.

Are you partly asking whether your anxiety is rational or irrational? You have to protect your kids from the one person (who happens to be mentally ill) that the court wants in their lives. That's pretty stressful. Your anxiety is justified.

It's how you respond to the anxiety that takes work. My son's therapist explained anxiety this way to me: Imagine that anxiety is making deals all the time with other feelings in exchange for having total control. As long as you let anxiety control everything, and as long as you do what anxiety tells you to do, the other feelings won't have full run of the place.

In a strange way, the best thing that happened to me is when I confronted my worst fear -- that N/BPDx was going to kill S13. Or N/BPDx was going to kill himself in front of S13. I looked right into that fear the night N/BPDx had his psychotic episode, and the feelings I had completely flooded me. It was like going through the feelings of grief without having to experience the loss.

I certainly felt anxiety after that, but there is no more deal with it trying to control my other feelings, especially when it comes to S13.

What seems to happen with you is that your fears about your ex hurting the kids rises to the surface, and then your anxiety takes over. Instead of dealing with your fears directly, your anxiety takes over and influences your thinking. You second guess yourself, you lose confidence, you start to imagine all kinds of bad things that could happen. And then you back down from boundaries and try to manipulate small things that give you a feeling of control.

It helped when the therapist described anxiety as something that tries to make deals with other feelings -- it's trying to prevent you from making real change. If you make real change, then anxiety loses its place and other feelings will move in. You might not feel ready to deal with those feelings, so you end up making a deal to keep feeling anxious.

My son went through a severe depression before the holidays and I was finally able to get him in to see a good psychiatrist. What I just learned is that anxiety and depression often go hand in hand. It's really hard for me to admit this because I've focused so much on the things that N/BPDx was doing, I ignored my own role, which is modeling a lot of anxiety. I do things that are codependent with S13 because I don't want him to have to face feelings he doesn't want to face -- it's like my own anxiety made a deal with his anxiety. And that led to some pretty depressed feelings.

You can't change the things around you without changing yourself. The whole family court thing makes it so much harder to do this, so I'm not saying it's easy. There are no short cuts, not with this. You're in a really good peer group here because people have walked in your shoes. There are risks to asserting your boundaries, that's the truth. There are also risks to doing the same thing over and over expecting things to be different.

It's a choice, a really really hard one.

Thanks to all, and as always to LnL.

What you said at the end resonates most.  Yes, I was wondering if I am being rational.  I could easily write ex an email telling him not to engage in this behavior with the phone anymore.  That would be the logical thing before another step.  Yet I don't.  I feel like he'll just use it against me in the future when I want to call the kids.  I should tell our parent coordinator about it and work on it with him, but I'm not sure that our PC will stay our PC, which I have to address in another post here once I get the energy.

LnL, your greatest fear is also mine.  There are enough instances when it happens in similar situations.  And often people on the outside did not expect it... .of course, except the mom. 

Your ex differs from mine is that yours doesn't seem like he was out for revenge, he's just nuts and thus puts your son at risk.  Mine gets vengeful (I don't think he sits and thinks about it, I just notice that any action I take in opposition to him gets a cruel reaction of some sort).

I guess I have to do something about this phone stuff.  One thing at a time. 

I love this post. I've never heard anxiety explained like that. But it makes perfect sense. I'm going to sit down with myself tonight and look all of my fears in the face.

A BPD's behaviour, actions, and communication skills can be quite scary at times. I know I was scared ("frazzled" and frustrated mostly, ... but at times scared,too, ... .which all lead to anxiety).

I am a BIG believer in that a majorly afflicted BPD (meaning when they push the limits to the extreme in all aspects of human behaviour) then they should be monitored (supervised visiition--> which has to be court mandated, obviously) when there are smaller children/toddlers/pre-teens/early teens involved in the relationship.

The behaviour (can be and) is simply far too bizarre for children to witness. At least in my case anyway. A home is a sanctuary, a heaven on earth for children to feel safe at all times. Not scared.  Abuse is abuse. It doesn't matter if there is no physical harm done. Emotional abuse is far more damaging.

In my case, I had to do what I HAD TO DO and that was to videotape and audiotape the shenanigans of my significant other.  As much as I still have feelings for my ex (I really do, but I had to face reality), ... .I made the decision to document this nonsense, ... .as this is what it was/is, ... .NON-sense, ... .non-sensible behaviour.

Oh, ... .I felt guilty at 1st, ... .then after awhile, ... .not at all.  i realized that my covert actions of wanting to "fix" my spouse turned into needing a way to "prove" that I was the sensible parent.

Let it be said that having video documentation sitting in  bank safety deposit box is better than gold.  When the BPD ex KNOWS that you have this evidence on them, and that it can arise at anytime, if they misbehave/etc it really modifies their behaviour for the better.

Excellent work, Ogo.

Probably true regarding young toddlers. 

My ex rarely does anything I can videotape and use as evidence. And the things I think are terrible, I'm often told a court won't think are terrible (like him yelling at me during pickup, even after they start crying.  This happened in December and once in Sept... .)  The 7 calls in a row also aren't criminal but could be part of a larger list of problems.

He seems to do fine with them once he has them at home with his parents for the weekend, but he is always so on edge, like with these 7 phone calls in a night, that it makes me nervous that he could explode one day.

I finally wrote him an email last night saying how I will handle his calls in the future.  He called the kids later that night and sounded reasonable, and didn't call today.  I can't get excited about that, because he goes through good and bad periods.  But I do think I set a good boundary and I think it will help.  I guess after 2 years it was about time. 

He does not get to abuse you at visitation exchange either.  Handing off the children and their stuff goes smoothly and pleasantly or the location is changed to the police station.

How you need to look at the new relationship with your kids' dad, is how do you want it to be in 5 years, 10 years and set those boundaries NOW.  You define the relationship and boundaries, not him.   Seriously, do you want him still yelling at you with your kids growing up thinking it's okay?

Quite true.  Well, we have a new parenting counselor and we told her about the last fight.  I think he may be more careful next time.  If not, I set a new boundary.  My T said to tell him that if it happens again I'll go to court and get something saying if he shows up yelling, he doesn't take hte kids that weekend.  Don't know that that's how I'd handle it, but certainly I can set a boundary if it happens again.   I do like to be aware of his mental state when he comes.

momtara,

Think now about how you want to define that "yelling" boundary.  What does that mean to you?  What exactly is his behavior that is inappropriate at exchanges?

Does he literally raise his voice to a louder level?  Does he use threatening body language?  Inappropriate language/insults?

Yelling, badgering over and over about some question he wants answered or something he's angry about.  I say as little as possible in response.  It happened at one pickup in December and one in Sept.  The other times, he's just very tense and barely says anything.  And sometimes doesn't even help me bring the kids to his car.  It all depends on what's going on in general with us and the kids, how angry he is.

Verbal Abuse by Patricia Evans is a good book to help set boundaries for stuff like this.

Call me an extremist, but the exchanges would be taking place in the lobby of the police station.  I would bring the kids in, it's HIS responsibility to put them in his car.  Not yours.

If he cannot manage his children on his own, not even putting them in the car himself,  let him fail.  Document, document, document... .

Your children are resilient to the short term booboos of life.  It's the repeated, long term traumas they interpret as "normal" that cause harm.