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Bpd ex dil has been angry all week after permission was asked to take gd away for a week with our family for a holiday later in the year. Exdil used to enjoy these holidays when she was involved so she will be jealous. I might add she used to make our lives difficult on these holidays with bad behavior.

It's school holidays and gd aged 12 said she would like to come stay over for a night. I texted ex dil to ask permission answer " no we have plans". I found out later there were no plans, they did nothing for 3 days and gd was bored. Told gd I was sorry and tried again 4 days later with gd asking this time.  Ex dil flew intro an even bigger rage and of course refused.  She then refused to deliver gd to the meeting place with gd's father until it suited her late in the afternoon.  In other words she is using gd as a bargaining chip, as a possession and revenge upon everyone else.  She will do her best to block the holiday later in the year but will deal with that I guess.

Poor gd is powerless and stuck in the middle.  She needless to say is very upset.  I have to say there is no court order for access.  Big mistake in my opinion but i am just the gm. She is with her mother from Monday to Friday and father every weekend. It works usually but ex dil has done this before. She is a very vengeful person.

How do others cope with this?  How do you explain this behavior to a12 year old?  Also do we keep rescuing?  I could go over and get her early on the morning she is meant to go to her father but this plays into ex dil hands of refusing to get out of bed.  Refusing to cooperate and making it someone else's problem. Answers?

I have a court order that spells everything out. This was the only way for me to be assured of time with our boys. There may be good reasons not to do that but in my situation I saw no other way.

"I could go over and get her early on the morning... ." Our court order has both parents splitting pick ups of our boys. In reality, I do the majority of pick ups and drop offs. The only time my ex actually picks the boys up is in the summer on her weeks. In the last three years ex has been on time (plus or minus 15 minutes) twice. Once she was actually 4 hours late ! I decided to not react since that is probably what she is looking for.

Our boys were 4.5 and 8 at the time of separation in 2007. As they grew and noticed their moms behaviors and my behaviors they formed opinions. All my ex is doing is pushing them further away. I truly believe she can not see what she is doing but does see the distancing between her and the boys. Of course, she blames me for it because,in her mind, it can't be her.

I would suggest taking a long range view. Send exdil emails asking for the time (documentation) and saving those and her responses. If her refusal is documented it will help if a decision to go to court happens in the future. You can save texts too.

Her answers of "no we have plans" can be replied to with the facts afterwards. Exdil can reply that plans were changed. Having a multitude of these helps in court.

Thank you David for your reply.  This week is the same story.  Gd is to go to her father on Friday morning (it's holidays here)and knowing gd has been sick this week and we will be close to her on Thursday evening we offered to her father that we pick her up and take her to her his place (we live in a big city and ex dil does not drive). The answer from mother was "no stick to the plan". OK no drama.

But not 5 minutes later ex dil texts son to say gd might be too sick to take public transport on Friday morning! ! It is all crazy making! ! She doesn't want to take gd to the city (ex dil is not the most energetic person) and even though we will be in the area she doesn't want us to pick gd up but wants son to drive for 1.5 hours in peak time traffic to get gd. He rightly so didn't respond as it just ends in a ridiculous argument. There is no logic in her thought processes at all.  It is so frustrating as gd gets caught in the middle and I feel gets used for revenge (is this too stronger word? In ex dil power and control games. I know I am expecting too much for exdil to be logical but as I said there is no thought to gd here and she gets constantly hurt.

Thanks for listening. I don't think there is Any answer except to document as David says. If anyone had any bright ideas I am more than willing to listen.

My ex ram away in 2007. Her behaviors haven't changed since that time. I used to react and learned to stop. She still does the same things. I honestly believe she can not think of any other ways to behave. She is what she is. I can't explain why I didn't see it before. I am at a point that if ex actually did something logical it would surprise me.

Document these incidents, save the emails, texts or whatever so that if useful at a future time then your son will have them available.  Likely one incident by itself, or two, may not be enough to get the order tightened.  Be aware that typically even 'actionable' incidents are ignored as 'legally stale' by the courts after 6 months or so, but they can still be used to demonstrate a pattern of poor behaviors over time that might be enough to get the current order modified.

Sadly, courts don't try to protect the children from all conflict and stresses.  Incidents have to rise to a sufficiently high level or become 'substantive' in order to get the court to see a need for change.

I'm getting mad for you by just reading it, such a typical BPD behavior.

The thing is, they will say they are doing it for the best interest of the child AND they believe it. 

Just have to keep remind ourselves that we are dealing with mentally challenged patients here, they don't operate on the same wavelength as everyone else.

Mother in law - it seems as if she gets triggered when you are involved. What kind of relationship did you have with her prior to their split? If you hadn't offered to pick her up early (Thursday night vs Fri morning) would your gd have been on public transportation Fri morning? Does she thwart attempts by your son to make any changes, when you aren't involved? She may resent the good, loving relationship you have with your gd, especially if she has issues with you.  She can say "no" to you because you have no rights, whereas saying "no" to your son may land her in hot water (contempt).

Don't get me wrong. I respect your relationship with your gd and how you seem to want to help your son.

Thanks LeonVa I have found out "mad" doesn't work, but sometimes laughter helps! Ishenuts (love the name), yes I do trigger her that's why I suggested son ask her this last time. We have had an up and down relationship. It is very interesting cause the other person who triggers her (as well as my son) is a good friend of his. Both of us are nurses and I think she knows we can see through her. I used to ignore a lot of what she said but I got sick of the racist rants, extreme anger/rages when she lived with us for a year (I was an oncology nurse and had enough to deal with at work without coming home to her behaving like a spoiled, selfish, angry person who didn't want to help etc!). She opened up to me of her violent tendencies towards her parents after we saw her belt into her father and yelling abuse at him (she is Japanese so we don't know what she was saying but it didn't sound or look good) and I admit to saying it is unacceptable. I did also suggest she go and see a dr and have a chat with a view to some sort of treatment. Her answer "all families work things out differently".

I am the only one who has ever created  boundaries also (probably not always correctly I admit) but I did feel in my home we respect each other, there is no violence,out of control anger or racist and bigoted talk. She found this difficult. I might add that during that year I babysat often so they could go out, looked after my gd every Friday (using my annual leave to do this) so she (exdil) could go to school and paid all utilities and food. I bought her lots of clothes when we were on holiday and have given her beautiful jewellery. Nothing made her happy!

Sometimes you get left with the feeling that you are being taken advantage of! I can honestly live with all this but I feel sorry for gd being caught in the middle. I don't discuss this with gd as she doesn't need me in her ear too! I do tell her when I ask for things from her mother but leave it at that.

Yes Ishenuts I think she resents the fact that gd and I get on well  but I think more to the point  she resents the fact that we can take gd away with our son and his new partner and she is missing out. I also think ultimately it is about power also cause yes she does it to my son. I have no answers except as they say document. I think when gd gets older she will say her mother is too hard and opt to lives with her father. Thanks for listening to this rant and yes Leonva she   is mentally ill but violence abuse (and she uses all forms) are unacceptable. As I said if anyone has any answers I will receive them gratefully!

It's not just you.  If it wasn't you it would be someone or something else that would become the Target.  I recall my ex first drove away our friends and family.  She somehow managed to keep a very few friends, I think they were people she thought she could feel superior to.  Once everyone else was driven away, I was the one left.  We had been married a dozen years before we had a child, an increasingly dysfunctional marriage but still manageable.  It took less than 4 years to implode the marriage, mostly in that final year because I was basically the closest and only one left to be a target.

Anything and nothing can trigger a pwBPD.  Typically though, it is some event that is triggering such as contact, holidays, birthdays, weddings, funerals, vacations, trips, and could be almost any change to the routines of life.  Back when we were still married I once watched my ex morph into her other (raging) persona while she was telling me about her day, I didn't do a thing to trigger her.

In this instance, the deviation from a normal schedule or exchange was sufficient to enable her to flame out.

Boundaries are good, they usually increase the short term conflict but can reduce the long term conflict.

Thanks forever dad I do realize it's not just me,  I think I needed to let off steam! ! Your story of alienating everyone sounded incredibly familiar. All's well now.  Have had a lovely day with gd in the city,  saw cinderella the movie and just had fun.  Her mother tried to make gd feel guilty by the way for coming with me by making very "off" and childish comments.  I asked gd how she felt, gd just grinned and said she didn't comment just smiled on the in side!

I must say that sometimes I do laugh at the ridiculous things that are said and the situations that happen. I think I probably sound harsh sometimes but I didn't sign up for this ie she's not my daughter (her parents seem nice by the way) I have tried very hard to make her welcome and there's no end in sight.

I am very grateful for this site (my husband god bless him is not the best listener) and the advice I have received here has helped enormously.  It is sad but I have tried talking to her gently but she just gets angry.  In fact the last time we talked and she actually apologised for continually being rude to me she became very angry within a minute of that apology when I wouldn't do what she said ie tell my son to stop seeing his new partner, my husband stood outside her front door (unbeknownst to me) as he was very worried about what she would do to me physically. So I don't see our relationship improving.  

All I really want (like most of us) is my gd to grow up feeling secure and loved and without too many hangups. Thanks for listening.

I had a really good relationship with my grandmother -- she felt like more than just a GM. Knowing she loved me like she did, and that she was always there, almost like an escape hatch, made all the difference. I spent long stretches of summer vacations with her, just me -- not my uBPD brother. I didn't think of it at the time, but she is the person who let me see what is possible for myself. It took me decades to work through the abuse in my family, and yet, now that I am where I am now, it looks so much like her life. As though she moved on and left it for me to pick it up and keep it going. I miss her more than anyone I've ever loved. 

LnL that so reminds me of my grandmother. She was always there, even we were far away. I had a rough couple of weeks and had a dream about her and felt so much better. So MIL, what you're doing for your granddaughter is great.