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Title: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: dagwoodbowser on April 27, 2015, 10:48:37 PM Still new here, but this place has taken me to 46 days and counting and the longest I've ever stayed in No Contact. Already had my BPDx break n/c last week and because of this place, my new found friends I didnt buckle. Maybe flinched a little and thought of asking her to respect my bounderaies via the sneaky email that got through my force field, but after lots of great feed back my head is clear and while still difficult I march forward.
As I read the posts I know there's a handful of survivors here that are Recycle Boomerangs like myself. I had 5, but only count 4 because one lasted al of 3 days? However, I also see vast majority of posters here that are Lucky enough to have landed here after first b/u and hopefully see the continuous, common pattern of pain and suffering and not multiply their pain by 10 to 100 times by possibly doing another Recycle/B-U. Ultimately everyone will do what their heart's desire is. Not my place or anyone else's to ask anyone Not to do a recycle. I have my List of behaviors I realized I simply could no longer accept or tolerate. Most of those bad habits are ingrained and are Not going away or change anytime soon. What one or top worst behavior about your BPDx do you realize will never change and you would either take a strong stand against or never go back because of it? Mine would be her infidelity. Most of the time I would catch her by sheer good/bad luck, other times her deceptions would conflict. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: mrwigand on April 27, 2015, 10:54:20 PM At the end of our relationship, my BPDexgf had no interest in my life whatsoever. And
She didn't show interest in my work, my creativity, my general thoughts. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: Reforming on April 28, 2015, 05:58:36 AM Still new here, but this place has taken me to 46 days and counting and the longest I've ever stayed in No Contact. Already had my BPDx break n/c last week and because of this place, my new found friends I didnt buckle. Maybe flinched a little and thought of asking her to respect my bounderaies via the sneaky email that got through my force field, but after lots of great feed back my head is clear and while still difficult I march forward. As I read the posts I know there's a handful of survivors here that are Recycle Boomerangs like myself. I had 5, but only count 4 because one lasted al of 3 days? However, I also see vast majority of posters here that are Lucky enough to have landed here after first b/u and hopefully see the continuous, common pattern of pain and suffering and not multiply their pain by 10 to 100 times by possibly doing another Recycle/B-U. Ultimately everyone will do what their heart's desire is. Not my place or anyone else's to ask anyone Not to do a recycle. I have my List of behaviors I realized I simply could no longer accept or tolerate. Most of those bad habits are ingrained and are Not going away or change anytime soon. What one or top worst behavior about your BPDx do you realize will never change and you would either take a strong stand against or never go back because of it? Mine would be her infidelity. Most of the time I would catch her by sheer good/bad luck, other times her deceptions would conflict. Hi dagwoodbrowser Well done for finding the strength to get to 46 days and holding your boundaries I found this site after I broke up with my ex so I wasn't really aware of recycling during the my relationship. We never split during our long time together, but we did have multiple crisis where things got very difficult and we were certainly estranged. I often wonder whether these times could be described as recycles? I certainly think that staying in an unhealthy relationship is just as unhealthy as recycling. Every couple goes through difficult times, but these relationships seem to be characterised by so much trauma and chaos. Despite this I clung to the belief that we could fix things, but she was never really willing to engage in this. It's very hard to see a way forward when the person you love isn't willing to try Ultimately her infidelity was the thing that brought things to a head. I think it is possible for a couple to recover from infidelity, but it takes a lot of effort and courage. You've get to be willing to do the work and she wasn't, but then she wasn't really willing to work in herself either. Reforming Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: valet on April 28, 2015, 06:44:15 AM At the end of our relationship, my BPDexgf had no interest in my life whatsoever. And She didn't show interest in my work, my creativity, my general thoughts. I'm not sure if my ex cheated or lied, and I'm pretty sure that she never physically or emotionally instigated any kind of affair outside of our relationship, but I too can echo your exact sentiment here. I felt invisible to my ex most of the time in the last 6-8 months of things. It might have been the most painful and rupturing experience that I have ever gone through—worse than even the death of a close friend or relative. Lying and cheating can be forgiven easily in hindsight in my book (although I wouldn't continue a relationship with someone that cheated on me), but the shame, the feeling that there was nothing coming from her at all, and of feeling totally alone in a room with a person that you love with all of your heart, that stinks. It's taken me a lot of work to get to a point where I feel that I have forgiven her and let go of the anger and resentment about this, and I do find it rewarding and totally worth it. I feel both greatful and lucky to have spend those 2 years with her. I learned a lot about myself from all of this. That relationship accelerated my personal growth in so many ways, and that's the gift we are left with when the pain subsides. But to address the thread title: I found this forum about 1.5 months out and have never recycled. I don't plan on doing so either, and had the intuitive response (even before discovering and learning about BPD) that I wouldn't ever get back with her about 2 weeks after things ended. I am lucky for this, as well. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: Deeno02 on April 28, 2015, 06:55:45 AM Well, no interest in me. Only her needs. Thats one of many. The main one though? Was when she called my kids names during her final rage at me. That was it. I dont care if she came crawling back after a treatment by Dr. Phil, kids are off limits. I loved her 5 like my own and never once insulted her kids, but as I was being pushed out, she started in on my kids. I love her, I miss her and it kills me to have been replaced so quickly, and the fact I have to see her 2-3 times a week only adds to the mess, but my kids come first. Always.
Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: Reforming on April 28, 2015, 08:28:43 AM At the end of our relationship, my BPDexgf had no interest in my life whatsoever. And She didn't show interest in my work, my creativity, my general thoughts. I'm not sure if my ex cheated or lied, and I'm pretty sure that she never physically or emotionally instigated any kind of affair outside of our relationship, but I too can echo your exact sentiment here. I felt invisible to my ex most of the time in the last 6-8 months of things. It might have been the most painful and rupturing experience that I have ever gone through—worse than even the death of a close friend or relative. Lying and cheating can be forgiven easily in hindsight in my book (although I wouldn't continue a relationship with someone that cheated on me), but the shame, the feeling that there was nothing coming from her at all, and of feeling totally alone in a room with a person that you love with all of your heart, that stinks. It's taken me a lot of work to get to a point where I feel that I have forgiven her and let go of the anger and resentment about this, and I do find it rewarding and totally worth it. I feel both greatful and lucky to have spend those 2 years with her. I learned a lot about myself from all of this. That relationship accelerated my personal growth in so many ways, and that's the gift we are left with when the pain subsides. But to address the thread title: I found this forum about 1.5 months out and have never recycled. I don't plan on doing so either, and had the intuitive response (even before discovering and learning about BPD) that I wouldn't ever get back with her about 2 weeks after things ended. I am lucky for this, as well. Good post Valet. You seem to have come a long way in relatively short time. I agree the devaluation feels brutal and leaves a mark What do you think has helped moved forward Reforming Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: joc1970 on April 28, 2015, 11:59:10 AM I was recycle 6 times in the last 3 years before I know about her BPD, No more
Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: dagwoodbowser on April 28, 2015, 01:04:39 PM Excerpt At the end of our relationship, my BPDexgf had no interest in my life whatsoever. And She didn't show interest in my work, my creativity, my general thoughts. mrwigand: Totally relate to this. I was always her soother, crises after crises, active listener always attentive to her needs but those few times I needed or wanted a connection from her she couldnt. I often write down quotes the others write here and this has helped me. "There is so much pain and chaos within her that there is no mental space, time or energy for your needs. You are expecting reciprocal consideration from someone who simply isn't healthy enough to give it. You are looking for answers and clarity from someone who is mentally ill. Ultimately, closure is something you will have to give to yourself." Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: Deeno02 on April 28, 2015, 01:50:48 PM Excerpt At the end of our relationship, my BPDexgf had no interest in my life whatsoever. And She didn't show interest in my work, my creativity, my general thoughts. mrwigand: Totally relate to this. I was always her soother, crises after crises, active listener always attentive to her needs but those few times I needed or wanted a connection from her she couldnt. I often write down quotes the others write here and this has helped me. "There is so much pain and chaos within her that there is no mental space, time or energy for your needs. You are expecting reciprocal consideration from someone who simply isn't healthy enough to give it. You are looking for answers and clarity from someone who is mentally ill. Ultimately, closure is something you will have to give to yourself." ^^^^^^yup! Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: jhkbuzz on April 28, 2015, 02:07:57 PM Lying and cheating can be forgiven easily in hindsight in my book (although I wouldn't continue a relationship with someone that cheated on me), but the shame, the feeling that there was nothing coming from her at all, and of feeling totally alone in a room with a person that you love with all of your heart, that stinks. It's taken me a lot of work to get to a point where I feel that I have forgiven her and let go of the anger and resentment about this, and I do find it rewarding and totally worth it. Can you talk a little more about your process with this? I'm still pretty deeply angry - and I don't typically hold onto anger, so this is a tough one for me. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: valet on April 28, 2015, 03:22:29 PM Good post Valet. You seem to have come a long way in relatively short time. I agree the devaluation feels brutal and leaves a mark What do you think has helped moved forward Reforming Can you talk a little more about your process with this? I'm still pretty deeply angry - and I don't typically hold onto anger, so this is a tough one for me. NC and LC contact have definitely helped me move forward immensely. Those two things, and honestly, although this sounds brutal, I think in the first few months of my relationship I was actively convincing myself to be in love with her. I appreciated the adoration, and she was a very good fit (career ambitions, interests, our circle of friends aligned, etc.). I felt that I had to be experiencing those kind of emotions with my partner. I was very inexperienced and just looking for a relationship with an intelligent, beautiful, thoughtful girl, and she was the biggest catch in town at the time. In hindsight I would have ended things after maybe a week or two, because I was only kind of into it. I remember after the first night I stayed at her house, I really questioned whether or not I wanted to go back the next day. My gut told me no, but I thought that I was just confused from a rather recent difficult short term relationship ending (and by my current suspicions, she was also a pwBPD). I was in a very vulnerable place when we first got together, and ultimately I just kind of went along with things... .And then I fell in love with her, because she really is a great person. This isn't to diminish the depth of my love for her, but it has helped me to lean on the idea that for some reason when we first met I only saw her as a best friend, and nothing more. Things just evolved, with a few nudges from her. The mistake that I made, in summary, was in believing that your best friend in the world should be your partner. I'll never do that again if I also don't feel that initial 'spark' or 'crush' feeling. Third: definitely these forums and the knowledge here. Fourth: I was depressed almost straight through from the ages of maybe 19-22, with brief bouts of recovery. I was not very good at handling my emotions, or working through internal conflicts. I've learned a lot about myself since then, and haven't had any episodes in the past 3 years. Fifth: I've lost 3 (I repeat, 3) family members in the past year. My father, grandfather, and uncle all died in 2014. The experience with grieving those situations has definitely aided me. This was my fourth loss of the last year and half, and I've gotten experientially very good at coping with them. Sixth: I travelled with my ex all over the world this past year and a half. We came to a new country at the beginning of this year to live and work in, and when she broke up with me and my initial anxiety and depression had faded (probably about a solid 1-2 months) I had the opportunity to make a ton of new friends in a pretty wild and amazing city. Most of my real progress (introspection, examining of both her and my behaviors, figuring out my own FOO issues) has come only in the last month. I have built a support network here, and I'm having a really great time experiencing the single life. My ex consumed so much of my time and energy that I was barely going out or doing anything at all the first 3-4 months that I was here. Without those worries I have flourished. I really do credit where I am! If I was back in the states in my home city I'm thinking that it would be a different story. Maybe I am wrong on that, but being coincidentally immersed in an entirely new environment will either sink the ship or give it a huge gust of wind to move forward a heck of a lot faster. Seventh: she never really did anything super terrible to me, to my knowledge. Yes, the triangulation, devaluation, silent treatments, and other typical BPD behaviors were there. The ending, however, was a relatively soft landing. I knew that the relationship probably wouldn't last, but I just kept thinking that if I did this or changed that I could save it. This was flawed thinking, because I was, at a maximum, only 50% of the equation. About the anger: it just kind of faded as I examined both her, and myself. As I continue to educate myself about BPD my empathy and compassion for her only grows bigger. Also, we shared some amazing times together. Remembering those things while making a conscious effort not to idolize the relationship as 'holy' or 'special' and want it back in my current life have really helped. I don't think that any poor behavior could possibly diminish the amount of love and respect that I have for her, although it does greatly affect her emotional availability and relationship readiness significantly. Simply, I found that at some point, maybe 3-4 weeks ago, I did not want her back. A relationship between us will never work, because she is not being treated and has not thus far made any effort to see a therapist about her ongoing bouts of depression, low self-esteem, and self-image instability. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: dobie on April 28, 2015, 04:05:49 PM Well done dagwood don't stop doing what your doing bud awesome work!
For me it would be the deciet the year or years spent with one foot out the door beknownst to me . The selfishness and lack of empathy Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: dagwoodbowser on April 28, 2015, 08:33:30 PM Excerpt Well done dagwood don't stop doing what your doing bud awesome work! Thanx dobie. You're like 6 months out I think? I've read several of your posts. I'm always looking to insights. What seem to be some of the last strings you feel you need to cut? I saw one where you seemed uncomfortable about her being with Replacement. That the only one? Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: dobie on April 29, 2015, 04:11:29 AM Excerpt Well done dagwood don't stop doing what your doing bud awesome work! Thanx dobie. You're like 6 months out I think? I've read several of your posts. I'm always looking to insights. What seem to be some of the last strings you feel you need to cut? I saw one where you seemed uncomfortable about her being with Replacement. That the only one? Dagwood , Its the grief as well and the feelings of being cheated I poured everything into this r/s blood sweat tears time money my plans etc etc I've lost my dog My "best friend" I'm finicially ruined almost (long story) My dreams to marry her have kids the house we were going to buy Our plans Got to start my whole life over again at the bottom while she waltz's off into the sunset guilt free holidaying in new York and all the rest with her new friends and bf She ruined me in every way and thinks its all OK that's hardest of all the total lack of care empathy or decency I swear when I tell people what she did and how she acted strangers think I must have cheated or beaten her for her to behave as she has Its a wonder if it were not for my family I think I would have had a psychotic break and be drooling like a nutter lol And of course this has opened up all my own childhood wounds of abondnment , not being good enough , depression anxiety , learned helplessness and all the other stuff Some days its hard to even get out of bed to shave or eat . But I must I have my dad to look after a job I desperately need even though it hardly covers the bills I'm grieving what I've lost a d what she represents rather than her per say now I think . Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: jhkbuzz on April 29, 2015, 05:11:31 AM Still new here, but this place has taken me to 46 days and counting and the longest I've ever stayed in No Contact. Already had my BPDx break n/c last week and because of this place, my new found friends I didnt buckle. Maybe flinched a little and thought of asking her to respect my bounderaies via the sneaky email that got through my force field, but after lots of great feed back my head is clear and while still difficult I march forward. As I read the posts I know there's a handful of survivors here that are Recycle Boomerangs like myself. I had 5, but only count 4 because one lasted al of 3 days? However, I also see vast majority of posters here that are Lucky enough to have landed here after first b/u and hopefully see the continuous, common pattern of pain and suffering and not multiply their pain by 10 to 100 times by possibly doing another Recycle/B-U. Ultimately everyone will do what their heart's desire is. Not my place or anyone else's to ask anyone Not to do a recycle. I have my List of behaviors I realized I simply could no longer accept or tolerate. Most of those bad habits are ingrained and are Not going away or change anytime soon. What one or top worst behavior about your BPDx do you realize will never change and you would either take a strong stand against or never go back because of it? Mine would be her infidelity. Most of the time I would catch her by sheer good/bad luck, other times her deceptions would conflict. Same here. I would have stuck by her through anything else. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: jhkbuzz on April 29, 2015, 05:14:06 AM I'm grieving what I've lost and what she represents rather than her per say now I think . I understand Dobie - I grieved that very thing for a long time. What helped "free" me is the realization that I can have that with someone else! Maybe I'm not ready for it just yet - but it's out there waiting for me when I am ready. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: Deeno02 on April 29, 2015, 05:54:41 AM Excerpt Well done dagwood don't stop doing what your doing bud awesome work! Thanx dobie. You're like 6 months out I think? I've read several of your posts. I'm always looking to insights. What seem to be some of the last strings you feel you need to cut? I saw one where you seemed uncomfortable about her being with Replacement. That the only one? Dagwood , Its the grief as well and the feelings of being cheated I poured everything into this r/s blood sweat tears time money my plans etc etc I've lost my dog My "best friend" I'm finicially ruined almost (long story) My dreams to marry her have kids the house we were going to buy Our plans Got to start my whole life over again at the bottom while she waltz's off into the sunset guilt free holidaying in new York and all the rest with her new friends and bf She ruined me in every way and thinks its all OK that's hardest of all the total lack of care empathy or decency I swear when I tell people what she did and how she acted strangers think I must have cheated or beaten her for her to behave as she has Its a wonder if it were not for my family I think I would have had a psychotic break and be drooling like a nutter lol And of course this has opened up all my own childhood wounds of abondnment , not being good enough , depression anxiety , learned helplessness and all the other stuff Some days its hard to even get out of bed to shave or eat . But I must I have my dad to look after a job I desperately need even though it hardly covers the bills I'm grieving what I've lost a d what she represents rather than her per say now I think . I know exactly how this runs. Im dealing with all those same issues as well. The past 4 years have been like a monkey screwing a football. From my wife of 18 years running off on me with the family friend, leaving me with 2 kids, to my Mom's issues and rounding up the trifecta, a woman who used the hell out of me and now has moved on with her college buddy a week after dumping me, leaving a hole in me the size of Texas. Im 51. Your not. You have a whole life ahead of you to get this right. Its harder for us older folks, but yet easier. While Im still trashed over her after 8 months and wonder if any woman would ever be interested in me again, Im also older and dont feel the need to have it consume my thoughts as I have lived "life" and am able to handle stuff in my own way. Not sayin its the best way, but its a way. My T would disagree!... .lol. Point being, live life my man. Get out there as best and as soon as you can. While she may be flittering around, it wont last. It may be a year, 5 years or in the case of my exgf, 15 years before her husband got sick of it and bailed, but it will end. Hang in there. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: Infared on April 29, 2015, 06:25:51 AM Initially, after she ran off my whole focus in life was "how do I get her back"... .I was so confused and distraught. Then I recovered enough from the initial shock to clearly see that she had been cheating on me and ran off to new replacement and still I pursued her, even more for a nano second.
... .but once I really let it sink in, how I had been duped (personality disordered or not), I just could never get past that breaking of the trust and her standing there, clear-eyed and sincere explaining to me that there was no one else. Was I still in pain. Oh yes! ... .but once trust is broken like that by someone that I trusted and shared my life with, that's it for me. No chance. No way. I am not walking out on that plank again for that person. My momma didn't raise no fool! Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: dobie on April 29, 2015, 06:50:54 AM Deenoo / infrared / jk
I think we all share the terrible consensus we were duped by people we all loved , that's what hurts We don't behave like that so we imagine others won't as well I think looking back I was very naivee in so many ways about my x I ignored so many red-flag We all did and we all by the sounds of it put up with a hell of a lot they all truly don't deserve us Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: jhkbuzz on April 29, 2015, 08:06:28 AM Deenoo / infrared / jk I think we all share the terrible consensus we were duped by people we all loved , that's what hurts We don't behave like that so we imagine others won't as well I think looking back I was very naivee in so many ways about my x I ignored so many red-flag We all did and we all by the sounds of it put up with a hell of a lot they all truly don't deserve us ":)uped" suggests intent, Dobie. I don't think I was "duped" by my ex. I believe she loved me as well as she could in the beginning, but over time the disorder intruded. That doesn't mean I was duped. Now, if your ex has other co-morbid conditions (NPD, sociopathic), then manipulative deception might be at play. That's why it can be so helpful to try to understand and "name" what we were dealing with in the relationship. And I was naive' too. And wounded long before I entered the r/s. These days I'm using my energy to examine that more closely - rather than ruminating on my ex. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: BumbleBee99 on April 29, 2015, 08:27:50 AM I have felt 'duped' by two past relationships with npd exes. It's a relief to know that I'm not the only one. I can be a bit paranoid so definitely have some of my own issues to deal with but I feel with hindsight that I was really played. Is this common with personality disorders?
Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: Deeno02 on April 29, 2015, 08:43:25 AM Deenoo / infrared / jk I think we all share the terrible consensus we were duped by people we all loved , that's what hurts We don't behave like that so we imagine others won't as well I think looking back I was very naivee in so many ways about my x I ignored so many red-flag We all did and we all by the sounds of it put up with a hell of a lot they all truly don't deserve us ":)uped" suggests intent, Dobie. I don't think I was "duped" by my ex. I believe she loved me as well as she could in the beginning, but over time the disorder intruded. That doesn't mean I was duped. Now, if your ex has other co-morbid conditions (NPD, sociopathic), then manipulative deception might be at play. That's why it can be so helpful to try to understand and "name" what we were dealing with in the relationship. And I was naive' too. And wounded long before I entered the r/s. These days I'm using my energy to examine that more closely - rather than ruminating on my ex. Duped may indeed be the wrong word, but we sure as hell were sold a half truth. I see that now on how she is always the victim and I fell for it. Duped, lied, half-truth, BS, whatever you want to call it, they were not completely honest with us. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: dobie on April 29, 2015, 09:11:02 AM Deenoo / infrared / jk I think we all share the terrible consensus we were duped by people we all loved , that's what hurts We don't behave like that so we imagine others won't as well I think looking back I was very naivee in so many ways about my x I ignored so many red-flag We all did and we all by the sounds of it put up with a hell of a lot they all truly don't deserve us ":)uped" suggests intent, Dobie. I don't think I was "duped" by my ex. I believe she loved me as well as she could in the beginning, but over time the disorder intruded. That doesn't mean I was duped. Now, if your ex has other co-morbid conditions (NPD, sociopathic), then manipulative deception might be at play. That's why it can be so helpful to try to understand and "name" what we were dealing with in the relationship. And I was naive' too. And wounded long before I entered the r/s. These days I'm using my energy to examine that more closely - rather than ruminating on my ex. Well she addmited that for the last year she loved me but was not in love with me and should have left 12 months previous but she was a coward and hoping "things would get better " how she didn't want to leave me after the wedding and how as the house purchase got nearer she had to end it . Push /pull ? Conflicted ? That's looking back what I saw Me over the last 12 months We don't have to get married we can postpone if you want to do go travelling / her no the engagnments gone on long enough We don't have to buy the house after she moans / no we should buy the house Here after BU I never wanted to buy the house you pressured me I couldn't marry you I shouldn't have taken you to wedding venues At wedding venues getting upset because we missed an appointment Telling me a few months previously at a friends wedding how she was going to cry at ours or how we should have a sea side theme Push / pull conflicted in love not in love she knew she was one foot in one foot out Deenoo my ones whole life was her as a victim Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: jhkbuzz on April 29, 2015, 02:10:10 PM Deenoo / infrared / jk I think we all share the terrible consensus we were duped by people we all loved , that's what hurts We don't behave like that so we imagine others won't as well I think looking back I was very naivee in so many ways about my x I ignored so many red-flag We all did and we all by the sounds of it put up with a hell of a lot they all truly don't deserve us ":)uped" suggests intent, Dobie. I don't think I was "duped" by my ex. I believe she loved me as well as she could in the beginning, but over time the disorder intruded. That doesn't mean I was duped. Now, if your ex has other co-morbid conditions (NPD, sociopathic), then manipulative deception might be at play. That's why it can be so helpful to try to understand and "name" what we were dealing with in the relationship. And I was naive' too. And wounded long before I entered the r/s. These days I'm using my energy to examine that more closely - rather than ruminating on my ex. Duped may indeed be the wrong word, but we sure as hell were sold a half truth. I see that now on how she is always the victim and I fell for it. Duped, lied, half-truth, BS, whatever you want to call it, they were not completely honest with us. If you read up on the Karpman Drama Triangle you'll understand her "victimhood" more: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0 She has likely often played the victim, although this process isn't conscious. You were likely the "rescuer" in the beginning but the "persecutor" as time wore on. In pwBPD, this is not premeditated. Remember, this is a disorder. At the heart of it is unresolved childhood trauma and emotional dysregulation. They don't "play" the victim, they truly believe they are the victim. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: jhkbuzz on April 29, 2015, 02:11:17 PM Deenoo / infrared / jk I think we all share the terrible consensus we were duped by people we all loved , that's what hurts We don't behave like that so we imagine others won't as well I think looking back I was very naivee in so many ways about my x I ignored so many red-flag We all did and we all by the sounds of it put up with a hell of a lot they all truly don't deserve us ":)uped" suggests intent, Dobie. I don't think I was "duped" by my ex. I believe she loved me as well as she could in the beginning, but over time the disorder intruded. That doesn't mean I was duped. Now, if your ex has other co-morbid conditions (NPD, sociopathic), then manipulative deception might be at play. That's why it can be so helpful to try to understand and "name" what we were dealing with in the relationship. And I was naive' too. And wounded long before I entered the r/s. These days I'm using my energy to examine that more closely - rather than ruminating on my ex. Well she addmited that for the last year she loved me but was not in love with me and should have left 12 months previous but she was a coward and hoping "things would get better " how she didn't want to leave me after the wedding and how as the house purchase got nearer she had to end it . Push /pull ? Conflicted ? That's looking back what I saw Me over the last 12 months We don't have to get married we can postpone if you want to do go travelling / her no the engagnments gone on long enough We don't have to buy the house after she moans / no we should buy the house Here after BU I never wanted to buy the house you pressured me I couldn't marry you I shouldn't have taken you to wedding venues At wedding venues getting upset because we missed an appointment Telling me a few months previously at a friends wedding how she was going to cry at ours or how we should have a sea side theme Push / pull conflicted in love not in love she knew she was one foot in one foot out Deenoo my ones whole life was her as a victim Dobie, you understand she is disordered - right? Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: dobie on April 29, 2015, 02:29:26 PM Deenoo / infrared / jk I think we all share the terrible consensus we were duped by people we all loved , that's what hurts We don't behave like that so we imagine others won't as well I think looking back I was very naivee in so many ways about my x I ignored so many red-flag We all did and we all by the sounds of it put up with a hell of a lot they all truly don't deserve us ":)uped" suggests intent, Dobie. I don't think I was "duped" by my ex. I believe she loved me as well as she could in the beginning, but over time the disorder intruded. That doesn't mean I was duped. Now, if your ex has other co-morbid conditions (NPD, sociopathic), then manipulative deception might be at play. That's why it can be so helpful to try to understand and "name" what we were dealing with in the relationship. And I was naive' too. And wounded long before I entered the r/s. These days I'm using my energy to examine that more closely - rather than ruminating on my ex. Well she addmited that for the last year she loved me but was not in love with me and should have left 12 months previous but she was a coward and hoping "things would get better " how she didn't want to leave me after the wedding and how as the house purchase got nearer she had to end it . Push /pull ? Conflicted ? That's looking back what I saw Me over the last 12 months We don't have to get married we can postpone if you want to do go travelling / her no the engagnments gone on long enough We don't have to buy the house after she moans / no we should buy the house Here after BU I never wanted to buy the house you pressured me I couldn't marry you I shouldn't have taken you to wedding venues At wedding venues getting upset because we missed an appointment Telling me a few months previously at a friends wedding how she was going to cry at ours or how we should have a sea side theme Push / pull conflicted in love not in love she knew she was one foot in one foot out Deenoo my ones whole life was her as a victim Dobie, you understand she is disordered - right? I honestly don't know but here's another narrative She is immature , selfish, a pro victim and suffers from anxiety and low mood she uses people and is not capable of deep love and caring because of all the latter and her dysfunctional childhood Girl finds dobie --- girl does not care about dobies current gf or her bf as she was using him anyway Girl thinks dobie is the most amazing man her perfect person girl thrusts herself on dobie and idealises his every word --- dobie having been in a normal long term r/s is missing sex and appreciation -- girl give dobie sex and idealises him for years though sex drys up after she has xgf out of the picture to almost nothing before dobie and girl break up Dobie allows her to express her anger through him --- dobie and girl argue and fight a lot -- dobie suffers from depression and rages due to later -- girl is always complaining and moaning about something but not much about dobie --- dobie care takes -- One day dobie loses his s××t and in a rage trashes the flat --- girl threatens to leave --- dobie give up his training and bad boy ways as well as his steroids and gets a job --- girl is anxious from now on as dobie keep trying to prove he loves her and has changed -- the years pass and dobie is trying very hard but the girl and dobie fight a lot and she is always unhappy about something --- the girls resents dobie and no longer thinks he is a god --- she keeps devaluing him and or accusing him of only loving her for xyz --- and how can she trust him --- girl finds new friends and no longer needs dobie --- girl has probably cheated as well Dobie and girl don't sleep in same bed as girl rages before bed --- dobie never wants to kiss girl passionately as she is always bickering and complaining -- dobie focuses on there economic future and is obsessed by making money for them -- girl wants to have fun and is sick of dobie being so middle aged Dobie heartbroken looks for reason for her behaviour ... . Bdp seems to fit but not perfectly --- others think she is just a horrible , selfish user who needs to grow up Dobie wants to believe she might be I'll but others just think she is a nasty person Dobie is torn between blaming himself and thinking he is not the problem although he is not perfect he did everything in his power to love her and keep her happy Dobie is burnt out and does not know anything anymore about her or him or the last six years . Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: Infared on April 29, 2015, 04:32:43 PM I have felt 'duped' by two past relationships with npd exes. It's a relief to know that I'm not the only one. I can be a bit paranoid so definitely have some of my own issues to deal with but I feel with hindsight that I was really played. Is this common with personality disorders? dupe1 d(y)o͞op/ verb past tense: duped; past participle: duped deceive; trick. "the newspaper was duped into publishing an untrue story" synonyms: deceive, trick, hoodwink, hoax, swindle, defraud, cheat, double-cross" Yes... .I was absolutely duped. She was cheating on me with another guy. We lived together in a beautiful home and were in a commited relationship. She knew that she was cheating and she was hiding it from me. She is accountable for that. Disease or no disease. Straight up, she knew exactly what she was doing, and I am not going to make excuses for her for treating me, our relationship and our home in that manner. I will let her make up the excuses, she is expert at it. She has the same ones for all the guys before me, too. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: jhkbuzz on April 29, 2015, 05:08:58 PM Dobie, you understand she is disordered - right? I honestly don't know but here's another narrative She is immature , selfish, a pro victim and suffers from anxiety and low mood she uses people and is not capable of deep love and caring because of all the latter and her dysfunctional childhood Girl finds dobie --- girl does not care about dobies current gf or her bf as she was using him anyway Girl thinks dobie is the most amazing man her perfect person girl thrusts herself on dobie and idealises his every word --- dobie having been in a normal long term r/s is missing sex and appreciation -- girl give dobie sex and idealises him for years though sex drys up after she has xgf out of the picture to almost nothing before dobie and girl break up Dobie allows her to express her anger through him --- dobie and girl argue and fight a lot -- dobie suffers from depression and rages due to later -- girl is always complaining and moaning about something but not much about dobie --- dobie care takes -- One day dobie loses his s××t and in a rage trashes the flat --- girl threatens to leave --- dobie give up his training and bad boy ways as well as his steroids and gets a job --- girl is anxious from now on as dobie keep trying to prove he loves her and has changed -- the years pass and dobie is trying very hard but the girl and dobie fight a lot and she is always unhappy about something --- the girls resents dobie and no longer thinks he is a god --- she keeps devaluing him and or accusing him of only loving her for xyz --- and how can she trust him --- girl finds new friends and no longer needs dobie --- girl has probably cheated as well Dobie and girl don't sleep in same bed as girl rages before bed --- dobie never wants to kiss girl passionately as she is always bickering and complaining -- dobie focuses on there economic future and is obsessed by making money for them -- girl wants to have fun and is sick of dobie being so middle aged Dobie heartbroken looks for reason for her behaviour ... . Bdp seems to fit but not perfectly --- others think she is just a horrible , selfish user who needs to grow up Dobie wants to believe she might be I'll but others just think she is a nasty person Dobie is torn between blaming himself and thinking he is not the problem although he is not perfect he did everything in his power to love her and keep her happy Dobie is burnt out and does not know anything anymore about her or him or the last six years . I say this with a gentle spirit: either way, whether she had BPD or not, it ^ sounds like neither one of you were happy. And you don't need to diagnose ANYTHING to recognize that truth - and decide that the healthiest thing to do is exit. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: jhkbuzz on April 29, 2015, 05:19:42 PM Yes... .I was absolutely duped. She was cheating on me with another guy. We lived together in a beautiful home and were in a committed relationship. She knew that she was cheating and she was hiding it from me. She is accountable for that. Disease or no disease. I could have written that ^ myself. I understand your anger - and your pain - intimately. Please don't misunderstand: I believe your ex - and my ex - are accountable for their behavior. My holding her "accountable" includes never allowing her back in my life again - she's too emotionally destructive to me. I can't dictate her behavior; I can only draw a line and say, "I'm not allowing that in my life. Period." I jumped into the discussion because there's a missing piece in this thread: an understanding that BPD is a disorder. According to the National Institutes of Mental Health, "Borderline personality disorder (BPD) is a serious mental illness marked by unstable moods, behavior, and relationships." In a recent discussion, someone said that expecting to have a healthy r/s with a pwBPD is like expecting an asthmatic to run a marathon - and then becoming angry when they collapse during the race. No matter how big a bet you may have had on the race, they just can't do it. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: jhkbuzz on April 29, 2015, 06:50:28 PM I have felt 'duped' by two past relationships with npd exes. It's a relief to know that I'm not the only one. I can be a bit paranoid so definitely have some of my own issues to deal with but I feel with hindsight that I was really played. Is this common with personality disorders? Each personality disorder is unique. People seem to talk about feeling manipulated when they have a relationship (r/s) with a person with NPD. People sometimes feel as though they've been manipulated in a Borderline r/s, but people with BPD tend to be much more impulsive, not premeditated. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: dagwoodbowser on April 29, 2015, 07:43:52 PM Excerpt past tense: duped; past participle: duped deceive; trick. "the newspaper was duped into publishing an untrue story" synonyms: deceive, trick, hoodwink, hoax, swindle, defraud, cheat, double-cross" Guess this Thread ended getting off course some. But hey... . I think it's human nature and all about Ego to search and try and find reason and cause, cause and effect for things we cant explain. Was my BPDx dishonest, manipulative and were there times I felt "duped?" Hell Yeah... .at least for me the Bigger Issue is that by the 3rd month of being involved with her I ALREADY saw the waving Red Flags red-flag, red-flag, red-flag I so badly want to blame her and yeah there was a lot of underhanded stuff that went down but man... .I kinda "duped" Myself by trying to convince myself that pat performance or actions were going to keep being different or the outcomes were going to change. Whole reason I thought about this post Wish Upon a Recycle cause I did it multiple times and really... .who Duped whom? I did it to myself Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: Infared on April 29, 2015, 09:16:30 PM Excerpt past tense: duped; past participle: duped deceive; trick. "the newspaper was duped into publishing an untrue story" synonyms: deceive, trick, hoodwink, hoax, swindle, defraud, cheat, double-cross" Guess this Thread ended getting off course some. But hey... . I think it's human nature and all about Ego to search and try and find reason and cause, cause and effect for things we cant explain. Was my BPDx dishonest, manipulative and were there times I felt "duped?" Hell Yeah... .at least for me the Bigger Issue is that by the 3rd month of being involved with her I ALREADY saw the waving Red Flags red-flag, red-flag, red-flag I so badly want to blame her and yeah there was a lot of underhanded stuff that went down but man... .I kinda "duped" Myself by trying to convince myself that pat performance or actions were going to keep being different or the outcomes were going to change. Whole reason I thought about this post Wish Upon a Recycle cause I did it multiple times and really... .who Duped whom? I did it to myself Sorry we got sidetracked... .The duped discussion got under my skin, and I contributed to that. According to your definition, at least I did not dupe myself and go back for a recycle. Don't know if that would ever have been an option for her... .but I had made my decision that her cheating was a total deal-breaker for me. ... .so as painful as it was I just could not entertain the thought of giving it another go. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: dobie on April 30, 2015, 01:00:58 AM Dobie, you understand she is disordered - right? I honestly don't know but here's another narrative She is immature , selfish, a pro victim and suffers from anxiety and low mood she uses people and is not capable of deep love and caring because of all the latter and her dysfunctional childhood Girl finds dobie --- girl does not care about dobies current gf or her bf as she was using him anyway Girl thinks dobie is the most amazing man her perfect person girl thrusts herself on dobie and idealises his every word --- dobie having been in a normal long term r/s is missing sex and appreciation -- girl give dobie sex and idealises him for years though sex drys up after she has xgf out of the picture to almost nothing before dobie and girl break up Dobie allows her to express her anger through him --- dobie and girl argue and fight a lot -- dobie suffers from depression and rages due to later -- girl is always complaining and moaning about something but not much about dobie --- dobie care takes -- One day dobie loses his s××t and in a rage trashes the flat --- girl threatens to leave --- dobie give up his training and bad boy ways as well as his steroids and gets a job --- girl is anxious from now on as dobie keep trying to prove he loves her and has changed -- the years pass and dobie is trying very hard but the girl and dobie fight a lot and she is always unhappy about something --- the girls resents dobie and no longer thinks he is a god --- she keeps devaluing him and or accusing him of only loving her for xyz --- and how can she trust him --- girl finds new friends and no longer needs dobie --- girl has probably cheated as well Dobie and girl don't sleep in same bed as girl rages before bed --- dobie never wants to kiss girl passionately as she is always bickering and complaining -- dobie focuses on there economic future and is obsessed by making money for them -- girl wants to have fun and is sick of dobie being so middle aged Dobie heartbroken looks for reason for her behaviour ... . Bdp seems to fit but not perfectly --- others think she is just a horrible , selfish user who needs to grow up Dobie wants to believe she might be I'll but others just think she is a nasty person Dobie is torn between blaming himself and thinking he is not the problem although he is not perfect he did everything in his power to love her and keep her happy Dobie is burnt out and does not know anything anymore about her or him or the last six years . I say this with a gentle spirit: either way, whether she had BPD or not, it ^ sounds like neither one of you were happy. And you don't need to diagnose ANYTHING to recognize that truth - and decide that the healthiest thing to do is exit. That's the tragedy over all I was HAPPY I felt safe & secure , "loved" needed I had a future , plans a best friend even if she was hard work . To answer the original question if I'm really honest I'd take her back in a heartbeat Unless she started becoming a compulsive cheat or abusive I can tolerate a lot . Life without her is hell and I realise that's my issue/issues its not healthy but its honestly how I feel . She won't recycle though she never goes back to xs Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: jhkbuzz on April 30, 2015, 04:58:44 AM Excerpt past tense: duped; past participle: duped deceive; trick. "the newspaper was duped into publishing an untrue story" synonyms: deceive, trick, hoodwink, hoax, swindle, defraud, cheat, double-cross" Guess this Thread ended getting off course some. But hey... . I think it's human nature and all about Ego to search and try and find reason and cause, cause and effect for things we cant explain. Was my BPDx dishonest, manipulative and were there times I felt "duped?" Hell Yeah... .at least for me the Bigger Issue is that by the 3rd month of being involved with her I ALREADY saw the waving Red Flags red-flag, red-flag, red-flag I so badly want to blame her and yeah there was a lot of underhanded stuff that went down but man... .I kinda "duped" Myself by trying to convince myself that pat performance or actions were going to keep being different or the outcomes were going to change. Whole reason I thought about this post Wish Upon a Recycle cause I did it multiple times and really... .who Duped whom? I did it to myself That's a pretty key realization... .I did it to myself, too. Mostly at the beginning of the r/s... .I had an inkling that she might be unstable, but I was really unhappy in my own life, she liked me a LOT (which was pretty heady stuff), and she felt like an "escape" from my unhappiness. Over time, as I fell in love with her, it became harder and harder to disengage. I haven't recycled... .she hasn't attempted it, and I wouldn't recycle even if approached - for the same reason that you've remained N/C for this long: the infidelity. It's a dealbreaker for me; I deserve a faithful partner. You do, too. And congrats on 46 days! :) Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: BorisAcusio on April 30, 2015, 10:39:25 AM I have felt 'duped' by two past relationships with npd exes. It's a relief to know that I'm not the only one. I can be a bit paranoid so definitely have some of my own issues to deal with but I feel with hindsight that I was really played. Is this common with personality disorders? Each personality disorder is unique. People seem to talk about feeling manipulated when they have a relationship (r/s) with a person with NPD. People sometimes feel as though they've been manipulated in a Borderline r/s, but people with BPD tend to be much more impulsive, not premeditated. There is a tendency to ascribe negative traits to NPD, but I would like to draw attention on the two completely different subtypes within NPD construct. Vulnerable narcissism is nearly identical to BPD with higher ego functioning(there is a staggering 0.93 correlation on important criterion variables), while the malignant subtype, which people usually associate the label with is proved to be extremely rare by recent studies, and bears more resemblance to ASPD. One really has to do prison dating to meet three of them in a row. The partner of the BPD often feel that he or she was manipulated as their interpersonal relationships are first and foremost need-driven in their nature, but as jhkbuzz mentioned, it is usually not premediated, but part of the the script originating in the pre-oedipal core trauma they never worked through. They are basically on an autopilot mode, ready to do just about anything to escape the impending emotional annihilation. www.toddlertime.com/dx/borderline/manipulation.htm (http://www.toddlertime.com/dx/borderline/manipulation.htm) Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: BorisAcusio on April 30, 2015, 11:06:42 AM The real question is, why did we participate in these unhealthy interactions for so long, with people whose core values or the lack of thereof fundamentally conflict with our own. The patterns may manifest in different ways, but just as deeply ingrained as the borderlines.
Glad to see that the OP has the insight and self-awareness so early out of the madness. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: dagwoodbowser on April 30, 2015, 12:02:55 PM Excerpt That's a pretty key realization... .I did it to myself, too. Mostly at the beginning of the r/s... .I had an inkling that she might be unstable, but I was really unhappy in my own life, she liked me a LOT (which was pretty heady stuff), and she felt like an "escape" from my unhappiness. Over time, as I fell in love with her, it became harder and harder to disengage. Thanx jhkbuzz. We give BPD's a really tough time about many behavioral issues. One of them being inability to see their own dysfunction. Took me a while, but I am seeing mine. I am a People Pleaser. A co-dependent type. I am dysfunctional myself in that I want to be needed, wanted and ultimately tapped and petted on the head and told Att'a Boy! Good job, well done! for my good deeds. She was a Taker, I was a Giver. She was my Yang to my Ying. Two Half People that made One Twisted Person. I helped her prep for her GED, get on some social services, took her to church regularly, off some of the harder drugs, she got her own place and eventually a great job. Does she recognize any of this? Hardly. She was still telling her family what a jerk I was, lying and cheating and still dropped me. Did I achieve my goal to make her life for her and children better? Yes. Was I pissed because I never got my needs met? Of course. But at end of the day my reality is that I did what I did for my kicks and hers were also met. That need to be wanted, appreciated. Never did get or likely never will get that Atta Boy or Good Job Well Done from her because she Cant. So, at end of the day I gave what I gave freely, not begrudgingly... .still trying to figure out why I'm now miffed I gave away what I did. Cause as we Danced our dysfunctional Waltz I sure wasn't complaining or doing anything to stop it. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: Reforming on April 30, 2015, 12:09:08 PM Excerpt That's a pretty key realization... .I did it to myself, too. Mostly at the beginning of the r/s... .I had an inkling that she might be unstable, but I was really unhappy in my own life, she liked me a LOT (which was pretty heady stuff), and she felt like an "escape" from my unhappiness. Over time, as I fell in love with her, it became harder and harder to disengage. Thanx jhkbuzz. We give BPD's a really tough time about many behavioral issues. One of them being inability to see their own dysfunction. Took me a while, but I am seeing mine. I am a People Pleaser. A co-dependent type. I am dysfunctional myself in that I want to be needed, wanted and ultimately tapped and petted on the head and told Att'a Boy! Good job, well done! for my good deeds. She was a Taker, I was a Giver. She was my Yang to my Ying. Two Half People that made One Twisted Person. I helped her prep for her GED, get on some social services, took her to church regularly, off some of the harder drugs, she got her own place and eventually a great job. Does she recognize any of this? Hardly. She was still telling her family what a jerk I was, lying and cheating and still dropped me. Did I achieve my goal to make her life for her and children better? Yes. Was I pissed because I never got my needs met? Of course. But at end of the day my reality is that I did what I did for my kicks and hers were also met. That need to be wanted, appreciated. Never did get or likely never will get that Atta Boy or Good Job Well Done from her because she Cant. So, at end of the day I gave what I gave freely, not begrudgingly... .still trying to figure out why I'm now miffed I gave away what I did. Cause as we Danced our dysfunctional Waltz I sure wasn't complaining or doing anything to stop it. This is really strong insight Dagwood. |iiii I needed to work on the why too, but this is really positive step forward. Good for you Reforming Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: ReclaimingMyLife on April 30, 2015, 12:19:11 PM Excerpt past tense: duped; past participle: duped deceive; trick. "the newspaper was duped into publishing an untrue story" synonyms: deceive, trick, hoodwink, hoax, swindle, defraud, cheat, double-cross" Hell Yeah... .at least for me the Bigger Issue is that by the 3rd month of being involved with her I ALREADY saw the waving Red Flags red-flag, red-flag, red-flag I so badly want to blame her and yeah there was a lot of underhanded stuff that went down but man... .I kinda "duped" Myself by trying to convince myself that pat performance or actions were going to keep being different or the outcomes were going to change. Whole reason I thought about this post Wish Upon a Recycle cause I did it multiple times and really... .who Duped whom? I did it to myself Dagwood, I knew by the 3rd day. Maybe by the 3rd email exchange. I even texted him saying "we've had 4 hard days and we've only known each other 8." He replied how great that was, how much we learned about each other, we were learning to communicate, etc. I took the bait, hook, line and sinker. I totally DUPED MYSELF. That is the real STING! Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: dagwoodbowser on May 02, 2015, 12:37:36 AM Excerpt The partner of the BPD often feel that he or she was manipulated as their interpersonal relationships are first and foremost need-driven in their nature, but as jhkbuzz mentioned, it is usually not premediated, but part of the the script originating in the pre-oedipal core trauma they never worked through. They are basically on an autopilot mode, ready to do just about anything to escape the impending emotional annihilation. www.toddlertime.com/dx/borderline/manipulation.htm BorisAcusio: Thank you. Love the link! I'm sure it's controversial depending on what psychological philosophy or paradigm one wants to use when approaching BPD. My BPD-X is Manipulative. No doubt, no if's and's or buts. Yet, once again I can throw a fit about it and point the finger at how I was victimized. However, the mere fact that I knew early on she was "manipulative" didnt blindside me. If anything, I was somewhat intrigued. In my mind, I simply believed I could catch it when it was happening cause I was oh so much smarter than her... .lol. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: dagwoodbowser on May 02, 2015, 12:43:34 AM Excerpt I took the bait, hook, line and sinker. I totally DUPED MYSELF. That is the real STING! Reclaiming: This realization will help you heal faster I believe. I know that I wanted so badly to justify what had happened, that I was the victim of a typical BPD hood wink. That poor me mentality. As I enter into my second month of N/C and I'm not enthralled in intense emotions I'm getting some clarity and this realization has pushed along a little faster along. Hope it does for you. Admission of our own sins, faults and sometimes foolishness is good for the soul I think. Title: Re: Wish Upon a Recycle? Post by: FannyB on May 02, 2015, 07:06:48 AM I re-cycled as I only learned about BPD just prior to our initial break-up and wanted time to process it all and understand her behaviour from my 'enlightened' perspective. I made a conscious decision to come out for round two knowing she probably had BPD and not expecting it to be any different - just a shorter cycle. If anything, I duped her.
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