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So... .I became frustrated earlier this evening... .figured I would walk off some energy... try to get things flowing.

I invited my wife and some family to go... .they had things going on... so I went and knocked out a couple miles.

Felt better... .stopped by house to get a drink and decide if I was going to go for more.

Wife was back from store... I asked if she and others wanted to go... .she said she was ready... .off we went.

Eerily normal for the first mile or two.  Second mile or two I was having a great time.  Conversation was about how some of her workouts were going, what chiropractor had to say abut my back, workouts and weight loss (all good news... .!  |iiii), how tranquil it was to be waking and looking at fireflies.

We get back home... .shower together... .were intimate together... .very relaxed and close.

I'm dozing off to sleep (by this time a bit after midnight)... .her tone changes... .she starts asking, accusing

Background:  Where I sleep is a bit of an issue... enforcing a boundary by leaving the bedroom is hard because of the equipment I use to sleep (CPAP... some splints... .special pillows and positioning... .getting me in bed and to sleep can be a bit of an undertaking)

I let her know that what she wanted to talk about was important to me and I would be available to discuss it in the morning... .she got louder... .I asked her to please wait until the morning to discuss this that we needed to sleep... .she told me to leave if I didn't like it.

Sigh... .I laid there and let it burn itself out... .probably 5 minutes of stuff coming out of her.

I got a few hours sleep... .and all of a sudden was wide awake...

And... .now I'm here... .

Sigh... .

FF

  Sucks when you get disturbed sleep after whats seems to have otherwise been a good evening.

Tends to leave me feeling a shade of sad.

Yeah... .I think I was doing OK with "BPDland" when it was once a week... .couple weeks of normal... .then an issue.

I have lost count of how many "issues" things... whatever have been tossed at me in last few days.

Serious question... .

I'm an organized guy... .I like metrics... .knowing what is going on.

Is remembering... .trying to keep track of all of this part of the problem?

I think I have the ability to let things go... .however... .I tend to want to understand something... .to know what something is... .before letting it go.

Do I just ignore it all... .?  Do I somehow adjust my listening and paying attention to perk up and remember when healthy things are going on... .and tune the rest out?

Is that possible?

FF

These times are the hard ones.  There must be something in the water.  I liken these times with pwBPD as to the game of golf.  I may hit 80 bad shots in a round, but there is that one shot every round that keeps me coming back to the golf course.   :)


I'm right here with you!  I am very analytical that way in that I have a difficult time letting something go until I "figure it out".  That's why I love coaching.  There are those times where we can "overthink" it too.


That's kind of what I do... .:)

Part of the understanding is knowing it is a pattern, and understanding that you wont always know the sequence, as its not in your method of thinking.

As far as keeping track is concerned that is useful so that you can look back and see you are making progress. The more we know the more issues we pick up on and this can give the impression of going nowhere. But this is not usually the case.

You may have a fear of spiders, so you study spiders, now you have a fear of many different species of spiders and are aware of all the habitats they may live in... So understanding can increase the perceived enormity of a problem. Truth is you will actually take  precautions so the real risk is less.

This is what you need to keep track of, the reality not the perception. Odds are the real fallout from these dramas is not as great or as long. You both get over them quicker with less resentment.

Even if you don't understand the fine print, you can get the gist from the headlines, and thats all you need to know most of the time

When I read here about the consistently awful behavior of a BPD spouse toward a non-BPD spouse (in your case breaking into e-mails, triangulating with children/other family members, yelling, rudeness, and other aggressively hateful stuff) and then read that the sex continues as usual, I am always a bit shocked.

The bad behavior of my husband makes me want nothing to do with him physically.  I can't separate the two and feel anything other than manipulation, or being used.  The sex doesn't fix anything in other words.  If that is the only time my husband isn't being a miserable jerk to me,  then I want no part of it. 

 

You know... .I post a lot of stuff here... .I don't post all... .it's too bizarre... .too much to keep up with.

Yep... .sex was normal... .great... .healing... .reconnecting

Later... .she said something to the effect of I shouldn't ask for sex anymore... .because she doesn't want to feel bad for turning me down... .

I ignore those comments easily... .they have been used many times before... .really doesn't raise an eyebrow or affect me... .so... .I didn't post it

Yeah... .I agree... .in many of the r/s situations on bpdfamily there isn't much sex going on... .or it will take a while after a blowup to resume intimacy.

We'll see how this one turns out for me... .

It will be... what it will be...

FF

This is a difficult issue because sex is very emotional and triggering for many people. It can be highly validating or invalidating. Whether this should continue as normal or is part of rebonding and forgiving, really depends on those involved. The way it is handled can either help repair things, or cement the dysfunctional cycle.

It may not be the original issue but it can quickly be made into the major issue hence distracting from the real problem.

One again, a FF post that sounds soo familiar :)  My W often starts her rants right before bed.  And my argument back is the same, it's an important issue, but we both need sleep.  Her response is to get louder and more vicious. 

We've even talked about the need for "timeouts", and she NEVER grants me one.  And like you, my options are limited.  I can move to the sofa, but of course I get an earful before that happens.  And much like you, these issues often crop up after a seemingly good day.  And she will bring up something that happened hours, days, or weeks prior.  We actually talked about this in MC yesterday - MC called her out on it.  She was very vicious to me and very mad about something that happened on Sunday morning. yet, she never made comment about it until Tuesday morning. 

There is something about bedtime and being alone with their thoughts that seem to get pwBPD racing.  Sex, too.  My wife has so much negative emotion wrapped up in sex, she is never in the moment, and I have often found that a short time afterwards she is upset about something.  I think her response to any kind of emotional event is similar. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is this.  FF, your wife treats you like crap.  Then she has sex with you and it's all good--until she gets up the next morning and treats you like crap some more. 

Maybe it's different for men but for me, my husband's behavior KILLS any desire I have for him sexually.  For many years, we had a great sex life.  Over time, though, it became "just sex" because I increasingly could not reconcile myself to his behavior which ONLY changed when he thought we might have sex. HIs issues have gotten worse and he refuses to even discuss them. 

Is the lack of sex making his issues worse?  I dont know.  He is a jerk regardless.  I just know that I am not willing to have sex with him just for the sake of having sex with him when our marriage is so dysfunctional and he won't even talk to me about it.   

I understand what Waverider means here as my wife and I used to have horrible fights and then "reconnect" through intimacy.  I never complained because the sex was always great and we would get close afterwards.  After several times of this it was "only a matter of time" before it happened again and became a cycle.  It definitely cemented the dysfunctional cycle.  My wife made the statement once that "Fighting isn't all bad because the "make-up" sex is fantastic".   red-flag   I should have recognized that.


Been here, done that and got the T-Shirt.  I'm at the point now where my desire for her physically is lessening (not gone :)) because I know "it's only a matter of time" before the next dysregulation, fear that she may be using me for something, and sometimes just tired of her crap.  Last time we had sex almost a month ago, it was just that. 

 

ML, Verbena, same thing here.

And that's one of the reasons she claims for being volatile lately - lack of sex.  And I see it the other way around.  I'm not in the mood to have sex with someone who acts and talks violently and complains and criticizes all day.  And yes, I have considered that me having sex with her when she is acting that way is "enabling".  I remember with an ex (likely BPD as well), there were several times when she demanded sex when I was not in the mood, and I gave in as an attempt to get her in a better mood.  One time I actually agreed to have sex with her to keep her from going into her son's room and hitting/abusing him. 

Be careful with sex/intimacy and pwBPD.

pwBPD are by nature emotionally volatile. Sex is a major expression of emotions. It gives power and can play on insecurities and vulnerabilities. Hence it is a powerful tool in BPD behavior. Care has to be exercised to ensure it is not misused.

It can easily take center stage eclipsing core issues

I've not read your posts for the last couple weeks (been in a land of poor 'net connectivity for a while), and I just connected two dots here:

1. Your wife doesn't feel like you listen to her, and you admit that you have more to do to improve your validation skills.

2. You frequently describe intentionally ignoring abusive and louder crap coming from her like this... .which is in itself very invalidating. [Ignoring somebody is like the silent treatment... .about as invalidating as it gets!]

She's upset. She's getting louder. You 'ignoring the bait' and not letting it become a fight, which is better than engaging with her... .but still not helping.

My suggestion is to work harder to avoid those situations. In that case, it would probably have been better for you to leave (moving CPAP, splints, etc.) when she suggested you leave if you don't like it.

My take on validation--make 100% sure you aren't doing anything invalidating first--because just the smallest bit of it will spoil the effects of your good efforts to validate.

FF, my therapist told me that disruption at bedtime is a hallmark of pwBPD. If I want to go to sleep at 2100 in my house b/c I have to be up for work at 0500, I must tell my uBPDhusb that I plan to be asleep by 2000. This lets him have an hour of whistling loudly, banging doors, yelling for the dog, singing at the top of his lungs - all the noisy things he had not had to do earlier in the evening until I wanted to go to sleep. I just back up my time schedule an hour to let his behaviors clear b4 settling in.

I understand all the inconvenience of medical equipment; I'm a nurse, so I get it. I can't tell you what to do, but if I were in your shoes I might have disconnected my CPAP, let your wife exercise her behaviors, then validate her with, "I can see why that might upset you (or something to that effect) then pause and furrow your brow, and say 'I really am at a loss right now for a response, but let me sleep on it and I'll get back to you tomorrow.'" Just a thought, my 2-cents. (My favorite line for my husb when he is escalating is to say, "I'm really not at my best right now, I think anything I would say at this point would not benefit a solution, so let me get back to you in x-amount of time." This is also a subconscious way of him seeing perhaps he is not at his best right now either.

Just a few thoughts.

This is interesting. My uBPDhusb won't sleep with me, overnight in our own bed (hasn't for six months at least) unless I have sex with him. He 'rewards' me for having sex with him, by sleeping by my side.

Really? I have a dog and a cat... .but I digress... .

Of course, he makes it nearly impossible to have sex b/c (1) his behaviors make him so unattractive, (2) his personal hygiene is lacking, (3) he doesn't make a connection between how his behaviours and hygiene impact my level of attraction. Or, perhaps he does, and this is yet another way to manipulate.

I hear you, Verbena. I was so incredibly attracted to my husband a few years ago before he started behaving so badly. I'm not sure I can ever be attracted to him again.