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What are some good strategies to deal with being ordered around and dominated?

An example from this morning. I'm at home this week. We couldn't get my son off to sleep for his morning nap -- and my wife is at the end of her rope -- so I offer to take him for a walk in the stroller. "I'm going to take him for a little walk," I say and pick him up. "No you're not," she says. "I'm taking him." She comes over and literally snatches him out of my arms.

This kind of thing happens quite often. I am ordered to do certain things or forbidden to do others. It's often where my son is concerned. If I protest it leads to a World War III type dysregulation.

Where do I start in setting boundaries around this? I really need to. I am becoming increasingly resentful and feeling humiliated about her lack of respect for my wishes.

The double standards are also really upsetting to me. If I ever snatched my son away from my wife's arms there would be hell to pay. Yet she does this to me often and I feel quite powerless about it.

Any ideas?

When it comes to being ordered around / dominated, there are easier and harder situations to enforce boundaries against. Much of the difference is in how drastic the measures you have to take to enforce them are. For the hardest ones, you may have to end the relationship and involve legal processes to enforce it. I'm not recommending that you take it to this level.

Here's an easy one: She is telling you to do "X" when it is just the two of you. You can stand firm and not do it. (She may start raging or verbally abusing you in which case you may have to leave to protect yourself)

Same thing if she is telling you NOT to do "X". You can stand firm and do it.

When your son is involved, it becomes more complicated. Because if it turns into a WWIII dysregulation, your son is impacted by that.

Here's the harsh reality if the situation--your wife is willing to use your son as a pawn in this game to control you. If you let that move become checkmate every time, she's going to continue using it, because it continues working.

And pretty much any boundary enforcement action on your part means risking a WWIII dysregulation.

Q: How do you do this without a dysregulation?

A: You don't. The dysregulation is going to happen. At least 'till you get past some nasty extinction bursts.

Better Q: Where or when are you willing to take a stand and face the dysregulation?

This kind of thing generally only escalates and gets worse if you let it continue unchecked.

It's about finding what is important... .

Take this interaction, what is more important here; going for a walk (taking the time for yourself) or having the time with your son.

Pick your boundary and go from there.

If going for a walk, then perhaps say something about appreciating that she will watch the child and go for a walk.

If you want to have time with your son, phrase it so that she has an opportunity to go do her thing while you watch your son.

Stand firm, but choose the battles within the battles.

Many times these interactions have to do with the pwBPD feeling like they are being abandoned/neglected.

pwBPD want to be the priority.

Hi globalnomad


it helps working from first principles here. Boundaries are not about your wishes. Your wishes may be negotiable and it may be ok to ignore them. Boundaries are about values and needs. I don't want to downplay your upset here - I would like you more to be clearer about what exactly is truly important to you and then own it with a louder voice.

Her behavior likely is upsetting but trying to control that leads to blow-ups. What exactly is violating your boundaries? How is it affecting you. What are these boundaries? Why are they boundaries? What is under your control in such situations, what options do you have? What price are you willing to pay and it is in a reasonable relationship to the value you protect?

When getting into boundaries planning matters. It also matters to focus on a single one or very few at the beginning and go through the initial extinction bursts. First boundaries can be a huge change and almost always lead to a certain amount of upset. Think through how to manage the upset in the aftermath and how manage her upset while avoiding to apologize for doing the right thing or caving in the next time the boundary is tested.

A total lack of respect is a sign of lack of boundaries. The first boundaries are a big change and to a degree it matters not so much where you establish them. A boundary forces her to accept you as an external constraint she does not control. The quality and cleanness of the boundary implementation matters a lot. Boundaries are where conflicts occur and establishing a healthy conflict culture is a secondary goal. Even in the long run conflicts won't go away - even in healthy relationships.

Getting the first boundaries in place is scary but it is totally worth it!

Thanks all. This is helpful. It sounds like I need to clarify exactly what my boundaries are and pick my battles.

Grey Kitty - You are right. I find it much trickier to enforce a boundary when my son is involved. Unfortunately, as you say, she knows that and is sometimes willing to use him as a pawn to hurt me or get what she wants.

Can you enforce a boundary of not staying with her to be the target of a dysregulation/rage?

I always recommend learning to enforce this boundary first--for one thing, its gonna happen sooner or later... .and for another thing, if you try to enforce any OTHER boundary, it will be the next thing she does. So start with that one.

Yes! I have been working hard on this for the past week. I've had to leave the apartment twice. I just don't engage any more when she starts to dysregulate. The result has been a lot less conflict. At the same time enforcing this boundary seems to trigger a strong fear of abandonment in her. She seems to have been thrown for a real loop as starting a fight/conflict is seemingly the only way she knows how to get her needs met.

Global,

That's good.  If there does come a time where she doesn't dysreg but tries a better approach, try to positively reinforce her.  She might learn that approach is better than dysregulation.

Yeah, and to some degree, she needs to find her own tools for dealing with this.

When it comes to leaving to avoid the dysregulation/rage, your first priority has to be getting yourself out of there, and the rest is icing on the cake. That said, here is a bonus thing you can do to ease the fear of abandonment when you leave:

"I'm going (away, to take a walk, to the store, etc... .truthful and as much as you care to disclose), and I will be back in (20 minutes, 2 hours, after work, or other specific time period)"

Stating when you will return eases the fear of abandonment. Especially if you keep the "promise" here. Building a history of keeping those promises builds trust. There are important details if you try it:

1. Give a specific clock-based timeframe. Words like "soon" or "later" are open to too much interpretation.

2. You promised to return, not to stay for more abuse. If you come back and are launched into again, leave again.

FYI, don't do less than 15~20 minutes. It takes that long for the adrenaline to leave a person's bloodstream when they are that triggered. You both probably need that.

Thanks Grey Kitty. This is helpful. I will try on a specific time. The last time I tried this I said I would be back soon, and 40 minutes later when I returned she wanted to have a fight about the meaning of "soon." So specific is better, I guess.

This is very, very true for timelines. The point of decisions is to take away anxiety. Clear structure and lines are a very important contribution we make to our partnership.

Do you think she may be having abandonment fears? That you spending time alone with your son makes her feel left out and alone? I know it comes off as her being angry but from the scenario you describe it sounds  like she was feeling anxiety and fear and desperation. Just the thought that you would just up and leave with your son probably terrified her. I may be wrong but could that be a possibility?

I know it's difficult to understand a person with BPD and they can seem bossy and demanding at times but it doesn't hurt to take a few seconds to get to the root of why she is treating you in that way. What I find is that people with BPD really are very afraid and terrified and it can either result in flight or fight. I'm saying all this because the more you take the time to empathize be patient understanding and compassionate to her mental illness the less you will be offended and you will be more forgiving and compassionate. Bpd is a legitimate mental Illness and you have to realize and accept that she may never change she may always be like that. But you can change you can be more positive and understanding you can make sure your mental well-being is good. Here's a great video on boundaries empathy and compassion. Because showing compassion doesn't mean you have e to be a doormat either.


Your wife may even be thinking that you love your son more than her. Do you think that may be a possibility? If so you may have to conciously make sure you include her as much as possible in regards to your son. Maybe she would have liked for you to ask her to go on a walk together. Do you think she might feel like that sometimes?  Remember people with BPD are extremely sensitive and can easily dysregulate and come to irrational conclusions about things. It's really sad that they have to suffer so much confusion and distortion

And it's really hard for loved ones to understand. But I'm sure your doing g your best too. I hope you can find healing through forgiveness and compassion for her. Otherwise your resentment will just escalate and neither of you will be happy.


Sounds like you need to do some healing inside about your resentment issues. Your wife is mentally ill and I'm sure she's doing the best she can.

https://youtu.be/ecb6ExBaW80

If you leave, have a back up of things you want, or need, to do to occupy yourself. If you just go for a walk without purpose, your mind will stew on it and you wont necessarily come back in a better state, only primed to fight on.

Worst case is people will stare at you like a madman walking down the street muttering to yourself .

Sometimes if you state you are going to do something, it is taken as them not having control, and hence a criticism,so they automatically take the opposite stance to regain control and prove they are capable. In your example if you had said "do you want to take son for a walk or should I do it?" that may have diffused it a little.