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My husband last night was in one of those moods where he wanted to fight. He has told me before sometimes he just feels like that inside... .he wants to yell and fight and just release some of that pent up anger.

I did a really good job of not taking any bait, and not getting upset.

Some of the things he said though, I'm not sure if he means it, or if he just meant it at the time. I guess he was getting frustrated that I wasn't going to 'play in the traffic' with him, and he said "I thrive on the chaos. I miss it. I'm sick of the way things are here."

As if to say he prefers an environment full of drama and fighting.

Is this possibly just how he felt at the time while he was dealing with those feelings? Or... .do you think he really does need or miss that kind of lifestyle?

This reminds me of my sister's kids.  My sister has uBPD, among other issues.

She raised her kids in constant chaos.  They appear to feel "normal" in chaos.  Each one tho has their own way of recreating this chaos in their life.

For one of the kids, when she was about 19, a family member took her in and tried to put her through college.  No matter what, she tends to be drawn back to mom and the chaos of that learned lifestyle.  She left this opportunity and several like this because she would get antsy, feel uncomfortable, and rush back to that area and life with one excuse or another of someone or something needing her or her discomfort at not feeling she fit in where she was.

I remember watching her at my house, on the phone, talking nonsense to her mom or another relative.  I was thinking to myself, wow the drama is insane, unnecessary, but she won't put her attention to the peaceful surroundings and such.  She was like a magnet draw to the chaos that others were presenting to her.  Like an ex druggie getting tempted by old friends or something.  It amazed me to watch.  She was in some hyper excited mode, always screaming, venting, crying on the phone with these people she left for a new life.  Then would be normal with me and other situations.  Eventually the pull of the old seemed to draw her away from the healthier things.

The other one, does not seek out attaching herself to someone else's chaos so much.  She seems to go out to create it.  She seems drawn to put herself into somewhat risky situations, then laments on and on about them, screaming, excitement, tears about weird things that are easily resolved by simply finding healthier people to hang with.

It is so clear... .

When two young women, have so much potential, opportunity around them, people willing to help, that they clearly reject it and end up always returning closer to mom, to a certain lifestyle, to what is familiar to them.

I believe a lot of it is also feeling difficult feelings on the inside, picking fights, or seeking drama as a way of expression to see the feelings external, so they do not have to feel so isolated in their thoughts and feelings.  Sometimes watching them do these things near me is like watching someone jump up, breaking out in their own style disco dancing out of the blue, then trying to recruit others to the dance floor.

Most of how they seem to express this feeling is:

Expressing they are so so bored

Acting antsy and restless (right before the break out dancing happens)

Yeah I know what you mean there. I can tell when he's in that mood because he nitpicks at the most absurd things... .REALLY stretching to make an issue out of a nonissue. I don't fall for it nearly as much as I used to.

He was a bit meek this morning, almost looking at me like a kid who knows they screwed up... .lost eyes looking for comfort.

Sounds like the shame BPD suffers have when they realize how they have acted. I used to think to myself, "Good, feel bad about it, maybe you will stop." and I am sure the attitude showed through. But that makes the pwBPD feel even worse and perpetuates the cycle.

Counter-intuitively, I now offer an olive branch and help my wife get past it. And it happens with much less frequency.

Good job not taking the bait!

My husband attempts to start conflict to blow off steam too, even if his surface frustration has nothing to do with me.  I've seen this in him for so many years with people besides me, so I know there is a need in some people for a life like this.

My husband hasn't expressed it as yours did, but it seems that someone who thrives on drama and conflict would at least miss having a target for frustration.  When I see a storm brewing and leave the room, he gets so bent out shape.

My perspective is that we weren't put on this planet to be targets.  It's really great to know some ways to make life better. 

I talked to a lady who has BPD in another support group, and she explained that sometimes when they feel that way, they just WANT it... .the anger, pain, drama, etc because they can release those feelings through the fighting/arguing.

She suggested that what he needs is to learn to channel that energy into something else IE like boxing, sports, etc. Something physical to get it out in a healthy way (which he certainly does not do yet) And she said when he's like that just do like I did... .don't feed it, and stay away from him. Don't let him get it out on me. When he's calm, discuss activities or something we can do when he feels that way.

I don't have the experience of seeing someone "like" conflict or chaos... .but I do think that people need it, are used to it, find it normal... .

I'd also say that it DOES fulfill an emotional need when you do it. Not in a good way, but in the best/only way he knows.

I think the raging feels better to them than the emptiness. It floods the brain and body with hormones, creating a feeling of energy and excitement. It's an incredibly unhealthy way to get a hit of energy, of course.

So valuable to get advice from someone who understands the beast within. This answers the question I've often asked myself in the past--"Why does he choose to act this way?"

It's not really a choice I now realize. Rather it's an attempt to discharge the painful feelings within--and we are the collateral damage.

This reminds me a bit of something I was told when questioning why my bi-polar mother refused to take her medication to regulate her disorder. She doesn't "feel normal" without the extreme highs and manic stages or the extreme suicidal lows.  Being fairly even emotionally is alien to her, and so, in addition to not wanting to gain weight from the treatment, she refused because it "didn't feel right".  It also kept her from getting tossed into jail for shoplifting, but hey, I can't make her take something she doesn't want to.

H is the same, I think.  I've posted before how he can't express or release anger without a human target present (guess who?).  Anger and bad feelings must be directed AT a person for him to feel he got them out.  Talking doesn't always do it, writing doesn't always do it.  Yelling, ranting, screaming is apparently needed time to time.    He always feels physically ill afterwards, and we've found that his worst rages coincide with hunger/low blood sugar, and knowing this I've managed to head off a few by insisting on eating or keeping snacks on hand, but they still come.  He' HAS been doing pretty well lately, but today was the start of quiet a cranky day. 

@Cat Familiar

It has been really helpful for me to talk to BPD suffers so I get a better idea of what it's like for them, and talking to people in different stages of their recovery. And you are right... .it's not really a choice rather it's the 'default' way of dealing with things. My husband has been handling his stress in this way for 50 years. I cannot possibly expect him to turn that off like a switch. The same with me... .I respond badly and act badly at times myself for the same reason.

@isilme something that works for my husband is music. If I know he's agitated or has had a bad day, playing music soothes him. "Music tames the savage beast" is no joke.

@flourdust and @GreyKitty both of you make valid points.

I tend to overthink the crap out of things until I need to get a 'reality' check and ask some folks to look at what I am looking at and tell me what they see. Thank you guys for being here. It's always helpful to me.

My uBPDbf also seems to thrive on chaos, but he once told me he envies my "boring life". Boring? If not getting attacked, blamed, or walking on eggshells makes my life "boring", I'll take it!

Even though our relationship has improved, his need for drama hasn't changed. When the dynamic began to shift for us, I noticed he just found new targets to rage against, accuse and blame. I feel bad for them sometimes, but not enough to draw the fire again. I much prefer being the one he comes to for validation. He never gets bored with that!

|iiii


Intensity of emotions and memory are related. We all have intense memories of the times we were teens and our emotions were all over the place. In some ways - if we are honest - it sucks to be a responsible adult. It a lot of ways it is also better.

Not in all situations moderation is the best course of action. Intense negative emotions are generally problematic but intense whatever other can be a boon. In some areas putting all your weight behind something is the right move. Maybe it is a matter of him finding new and constructive outlets?

I think it is the recreation of what is familiar to our childhood.  If he grew up in a household full of chaos, then that is what feels like a normal state.  In fact it isn't him that wants chaos, it is that little boy that grew up with the chaos that wants it, so much so he is willing to pick a fight to feel "familiar".