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DH is trying to get him into a residential treatment center first, but we have a teen who believes that we are responsible for putting his mom in jail (judge told her he would be charging her with a felony and told our attorney to file civil enforcement actions as well).  

He told DH that "You just lost your son you ignorant, egotistical tyrant.  You may have me in your home, but you will never get me back... ."

Just sad that it all came to this... .

Any stories of improvements when it is this bad?

First of all, good for you and DH for fighting for DSS. A lot of parents would have given up by now.    It'll get better. It can't possibly get worse.

I'm going to stress this again: You did not send BPDmom to jail. You don't even have that power (you don't, do you? Because if you do then can you send our uBPDbm to jail too?). All three of those kids need to learn that there are real life consequences to behavior. BPDmom didn't follow the law so her consequences are that she go to jail. Both DSS's contributed to it. They're more guilty of sending BPDmom to jail than you are, but whatever.

Take my advice with a grain of salt, because I don't have a teenager or a severely alienated child, but... .

Are there family members or friends of the family that DSS15 still likes? Grandparents? A favorite aunt? Someone that can come and stay for awhile to break the ice? I know you said DD and DSS used to be close but aren't any longer. PA usually wipes out not only the parent but the parents entire side of the family, so there might not be anyone. I've also read that seeing DH interact with other kids makes them think "hm, maybe he isn't such an evil monster". Maybe you could invite over nephews, nieces... .DSS's friends and their parents?

Right now I would consider him grounded. If any kid had ran away (even an alienated one) then I would take away privileges. DSS can sulk in his room, but I wouldn't allow him things like his cell phone, internet, gaming systems until he can be respectful and follow rules. I'd probably set up chores (if you already do that with the other kids) and insist on eating with the family. You know, set up a normal routine. No TV in his room, if he wants to watch TV he has to come down and do it with the family.

Also, if he wants to see/talk to DSS18 or DSD20 then they need to come over to your house and have dinner with you. "Supervised" visits. You really don't need them fueling the fire when you're trying to deprogram DSS15.

Extinction Burst?   A residential treatment center sounds necessary.  Somehow he has to learn that running isn't a solution.

It's hugely emotional, no logic to it.  If he hadn't immediately gone to his mother's home then her facing consequences might not have happened.

Maybe the therapist will eventually task him with some problem solving, how his choices and actions led to this outcome.  I mean, maybe they can get him to answer whether he wants to be fuming and rebellious for the next two years.

Absolutely astounding how drastic the change is between him now versus him a couple years ago before his mother changed focus from his sister when she became an adult and onto him still a minor.

At least school won't be impacted for another 5-6 weeks.  Let's hope he's calmed down and dealing with reality by then.

I agree his grown siblings won't be a good influence right now.  And I like the idea for his TV, computer and games to be in a common room so he doesn't isolate himself and prolong the sulking.

They only would let  him to partial hospitalization... .we are trying to figure out how to get his phone away without WWIII breaking out.  DH offered to take  him out of town and take is phone over taking him to PHP, but he refused to get rid of his phone.  We will see if there is a way during PHP.

I am thinking the PHP will confront his stupid idea that we are incarcerating his mom.

How long do we think it will take for him to not feel as nasty?

Really sad, the whole thing. Seems son is getting worse with you both as well. I know you are trying really hard. Is there a better environment for your SS, where he wants to be as well?

He's only been with us a few hours at this point.  :-/

Full time, but other then that has been with you all right?

If you can't get the phone, can you get the charger?

Who is paying for the phone ?

Mom is right now.  I know we need to get rid of it and switch it out somehow, but he is defiantly opposed.  This is where we need an intensive program because someone else needs to be the bad guy.

I would think that BPDm will make an issue with the phone when she finds out. The rules in your house are the rules in your house.
I think a neutral third party, therapist, would probably be the best place to go for help. I don't see it being quick or easy. Boundaries are the only thing you can do. Figuring out the right ones is the trick.
Can you remember what DSS15 was like before the alienation and use that to try to "reconnect" ?

What has it been like having SS back home?  Is there any interaction or is he hiding out in his room like he did on the first night?  How are you, your kids and DH doing?  There is a lot going on (I know that's an understatement ) between mom's legal issues and son being home.  Try to sneak in a little down time when you can it will keep you guys a strong team. 

Thinking of you all,
Panda39

Things are settling down a lot.  He is mostly in his room, but yesterday he did spend a couple of hours in the neighborhood doing Pokemon Go--that's a good sign.  His older siblings were griping that all he did was sleep and eat at mom's so it looks like he's been depressed for a long time.

I am going on a trip with my kids while DH stays with him.  He's going to let DSS know that the judge said that DH needs to pay for his phone and provide phone records at mom's hearing for breaking the no-contact order.

When DSS18 dropped off DSS15, he brought a dog with him.  DH talked about DSS15 socializing "his" dog with our dog, brought him treats, etc.  The next day DSS18 came to pick up the dog, which makes me think they were hoping it would start drama

And when he came, my DD18 emotionally vomited all over him... .chastising him for just believing everything he heard.  When he told her that he doesn't get why his dad brought mom back to court, she told him, "She never signed the first order!  He had to!" to which he replied, "I didn't know that."  She said, "There's a lot of things you don't know.  You have a right to be upset and angry, but when you calm down, I hope you communicate and look at other perspectives instead of just the information you have."

Maybe something got through to him; DSS18 agreed to have dinner with DH tonight.   Two days ago he was disowning him.

At some point DSS15 can be encouraged to compare his feelings and perspectives of a year ago with the extremes of the past week and prior months.  Would he honestly compare those two very different states of mind?  Then he could ponder, Why, what facts changed, what changed him?

Probably he can't handle that right now but he needs to be able to reflect on his perceptions, they did drastically change and for the worse.  Cause and effect.

Sounds like all the steps are wearing their emotions on their sleeves and letting those overwhelm the facts.  With their mother's egging on now reduced, there ought to be some progress.  Just monitor what the adult siblings may do and say to hinder him from listening to reason, peace and calm.

Where are the older kids living now, and what happens if mom ends up in jail?

I just have to say your daughter rocks!  |iiii I'm really glad she is saying what is on her mind and not ignoring the elephant in the room.



I hope something is sinking in but I would also be a little wary... .will he run home to mom and say dad was drunk at dinner and stir the pot some more? Are they going out to dinner? (Where there will be witnesses? ).

Panda39

DH said their dinner was normal, almost like nothing happened.  He used to have dinner with the boys like that... .he said it was like old times, and nothing controversial was brought up.

Good start... .

That is good news  |iiii

Sounds like good things are starting to happen. The hardest thing I found when my ex used alienation against me was to know when to do something and when to just listen to our kids.
 
A helpful story, perhaps. One of my SS's used to get angry when I enforced boundaries with him. He used to always say he hated me in those times. I never took it personally but I didn't care for the attitude. This went off and on for several years . One day he was on a rant with me and said , "I hate you and this time I really mean it." We both stood there for a few seconds and I replied, "Well that is a relief." It stopped him in his tracks and he looked at me, puzzled, and said, "What are you talking about." I simply pointed out that all those other times when he said he hated me he didn't really mean it so I look at that as a positive since this was the only real time he felt that way. I smiled and thanked him for letting me know that. I said it in a sincere way. He started laughing and so did I. He never said he hated me again after that.
 
Looking back, he probably had it the worst from his mom. I didn't see a lot of what was going on between them until after ex left.

BPD mom asked if DH would allow her mom to take him for lunch.  He told her that he didn't think it was a good idea right now.  Then dsd's friend came over at 1pm to see if DSS could go somewhere with her... .DH let her know that DSS was still sleeping.  Then when friend was leaving, he saw DSD get up from hiding in the back seat.  I guess they were trying the lunch a different at.  How old are we?

DSS is saying he's not hungry and is sleeping a lot.  Sounds depressed.  Gotta wonder what he's thinking.  We did find out from his counselor that he is exhibiting some anger towards BPD mom so glad it's not 100% at DH.

He also may be exhausted by everything that has been going on although depression wouldn't be surprising either. Does his counselor see the depression?

Sounds like mom is still trying to gain access to SS15 through her mom and his sister (via the friend). The games still seem to be afoot. Can you hear my eyes roll where you are?

Panda39

DSS16 told DH that he did not eat yesterday because DH did not let him go to his great grandfather's funeral yesterday.  He is mad at DH putting him in day treatment.  He also told him that he will never have a relationship with him.

Still waiting for the anger to die down, I guess... .

Has DSS started the day treatment?

DSS has a CHOICE... .he can decide to live life to the full or he can punish himself by being angry and self-sabotaging.  If only he would hear and actually listen.  We're hoping that in time he will.